The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 09 - Ferne McCann talks motherhood, breathwork and perimenopause

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

In this week’s episode, Dr Louise Newson is joined by Ferne McCann, TV personality, reality star, entrepreneur, and co-founder of the wellness app Shoorah. Ferne first rose to fame on The Only Way Is Essex and has since appeared on shows like I’m a Celebrity… Get Me Out of Here! and Dancing on Ice. Ferne talks candidly about the hormonal changes she experienced during and after pregnancy, and how breathwork learned through hypnobirthing helped her stay calm and manage stress during childbirth. She also opens up about how pushing herself beyond her comfort zone - whether learning to skate for Dancing on Ice or taking part in Celebrity SAS: Who Dares Wins, has strengthened her resilience and confidence. She reflects on the value of embracing challenges and aims to inspire curiosity and courage in her daughters while continuing to embrace these qualities herself. Their conversation then turns to perimenopause, with Louise explaining how fluctuating hormones after pregnancy can affect mood and wellbeing. The episode closes with Ferne sharing her three take-home tips, plans for an exciting new podcast, Every Cloud, and other upcoming projects. We hope you're loving the new series! Share your thoughts with us on the feedback form here and if you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to leave a 5-star rating on your podcast platform. This episode is also available to watch on YouTube hereEmail [e-mail] with suggestions for new guests! Disclaimer    The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Dr Louise Newson or the Newson Health Group.    LET'S CONNECT  Website: Dr Louise NewsonInstagram: The Dr Louise Newson Podcast (@drlouisenewsonpodcast) • Instagram photos and videosLinkedIn: Louise Newson | LinkedInSpotify: The Dr Louise Newson Podcast | Podcast on SpotifyYouTube: Dr Louise Newson - YouTubeCONNECT WITH FERNE MCCANN TikTok: Ferne McCannInstagram: Ferne McCannLinkedIn: Ferne McCann 

So, Fern, welcome. Thanks so much for coming today. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's great. Like, what you're doing, how you are. Like, so much has been happening, hasn't it, really, for you? I'm just really keen to hear first about what you've been doing with Dancing on Ice, how you got so bit with it all. And, you know, it's so easy for us to sit at home and watch people do it. But it's physically very demanding, isn't it? Exactly that. I think that watching the show, pre-embarking on my dancing and ice experience, I think I really took for granted how much work goes into it. You know, you turn on the TV, you tune into the show, you're voting for your favourite couple. You're like, oh, that's good. Or even like, when I used to watch it, I'm like, nah, they could have done better. But honestly, I was in shock. I know this sounds really silly, but I obviously knew that I was going to have to learn how to ice skate. But I didn't appreciate how difficult it was going to be. It was such a challenge, which I love.

I love a physical challenge. And it ticks so many boxes for me. But it was so hard. And I consider myself to be quite competitive. And I really struggled with learning that new skill. And I was really frustrated because I just felt so rubbish. So have you never ice skated before? I have done like parties and things like that.

Actually, I had an ice skating injury when I was like eight, some boy was kicking the ice. And his ice skate ended up in my leg. And it was my first experience of A&E, first experience of having stitches. It was all quite traumatic. But it didn't put me off eventually going to do dance on ice. But anyways, fast forward so many years. The old Christmas and Winter Wonderland and that sort of thing taking the children. But no, I couldn't ice skate.

Wow. Yeah, it was hard. But it was such a fantastic experience because, like I said, I really like to have a focus and especially when it's teaming, I love making TV and I love anything sporty. So combining the two and then it was perfect timing because I just made the huge decision to finish my reality show after seven years last year. and it was just so wonderful to walk into such an incredible production. Wow. Amazing.

And I think it, I don't know whether it's a female thing, but so much in life we get set up to fail, it's almost like we can't be successful as women. And if there's something that's a barrier or something that's difficult to do, it can be really difficult, but then when we do it, it's even better almost. Oh, so rewarding. So rewarding.

And I think like thinking about the successes that I've, had with with stuff that's been difficult like giving birth or S-A-S I know they're like two completely different things but both I had to do some sort of work and you know leading up to it it was yeah they were challenging but I I really step up to that challenge and I feel like I don't know if it's because I've come from this reality star well yeah being a reality star I'm reality background that I've almost got like a point to prove. But I just really just get focused and just get on with it. I mean, I didn't do very well on Dantzana Ice. But that alone, it was still four months of training and you enjoyed it. I really, I think I really enjoyed it. I was out week

three and I was devastated, you know, I even said on live TV, I was so gutted because it was the first show that my daughter who's seven, my oldest daughter, it's such a family show. So everyone could come and watch and I really poured my heart and soul. So yeah, it ended prematurely for me. However, it was amazing. But you don't regret it, sort of. No, I don't regret it. However, a few weeks after leaving the show, I went to a rollerblading, children's rollerblading party with my daughter. And she was like, come on, I don't want to go on by myself. And I was like, I quite fancy me. myself at this. I've just done four months ice skating. I'm going to absolutely boss it. It was like slapstick comedy. I fully stacked it in this public rollerblading disco,

went down and fractured my wrist. Oh no. Yeah. It's like, it's like training for a marathon and stepping outside your front door and tripping out. So yeah. And then I wasn't able to then ice skate on the final of dancing on ice. And for me, right, that was just a real, it was, It felt like I had closure to my dancing and ice experience because I was like, oh, why did I leave so early? I was enjoying it so much. And then when that injury happened, it was like a sign to say, maybe you're not meant to do ice skating and we're just like saving you from another.

I know. Really interesting. So it was a silver lining. But you probably learned quite a lot about yourself. I think when you push. yourself out to things that are uncomfortable or things that you don't expect that you're going to be good at. It doesn't matter that you didn't win to actually just get out there and learn so much so quickly in four months. Yeah. It's phenomenal, isn't it? And I think so often,

I think so she's a mother with children, it's so easy to almost hide behind the children or think I can't do this and make excuses or I'm too old, I'm too unfit, I'm too, whatever, whatever we do. Yeah. So actually for you to just have that message that actually you can do it, and you can do it for yourself as well. Exactly. It's powerful. And I think that we are so frequently saying to our children, encouraging them to try new things, you should do it.

Like I'm always saying to Sunday, my daughter, like, try this. I mean, she does so many clubs. It's actually a joke. She's only in you too. She does karate. She does sewing clubs. She does swimming, you know, everything, tennis, gymnastics. And I'm like, try it, try it.

And she's reluctant. Oh, but I feel nervous. and I'm like, you're going to enjoy it. But then when we become adults, it almost stops. Yeah, absolutely right. And what I have taken from dancing or nice is exactly that, to try it and to lean into that uncomfortable state to like really push yourself.

And because I was out week three and had time to spare, so to speak, I was like, right, I've always wanted to play tennis. I've always been quite sporty, but that was one that I wasn't, I didn't actually really play. And now Sunday plays and she's really good. and my dream is just to, you know, whether we're on holiday or whatever, or it's a nice sunny day is to play tennis with her. So I was like, right, now this is my time to just do it.

Because when do we think, let's just book the lesson or say if you want to learn how to sing or whatever it is. And especially being a mother, we prioritise our children and we don't get those opportunities. So it's definitely taught me to just, if you've got a hobby or you've always dreamt of doing something, just rip the band-aid off. text the tennis coach and booking the lesson.

It's so important, actually. But I think when you're, you've got the children, clearly they're a real priority, but somehow the focus gets taken away from us as individuals. Like, no one has ever said to my husband, how do you cope working full-time with three children? Like, no one, but the number of people that have said to me. And it's like, hang on, actually, have I not got an identity?

Is it not okay for me to work? Is it not okay for me to be a role model for my children? because my time is very limited because you have to take them to places or organize whatever or cook for them and do everything else, if I've got spare 10 minutes, I will be really hyper-focused and send 1,000 emails or have... More productive. And I certainly, I know that I'm a better multitasker because I've got children. If you see what I mean.

100%. Definitely. I think when you become a mum, like if they're not, if they're not, I think when you become a mum, like, if that's what you want to be and it's just being a mum, that's fine. Like, that is, that's great. And if that's your, if you feel that that's your purpose, like, how wonderful. Absolutely. For me, I wasn't overly maternal before I had Sunday.

And I really had to learn how to become a mum. But at the same time, and I'm, I don't have any qualms in saying this, but I, I don't want to just be a mum. Like, I, I want to. I love the juggle. Like I really, I thrive on that. You know, I always used to say, oh, I'm spinning so many plates and I always smash one.

But I like that. Only one. Yeah, well, about 10 in my life. But no, it's like, I love that juggle. Like, that's how I feel valued. And that's how I really thrive. And I love that. Like, yeah, that's how I feel like, if I'm not working, then I feel like I'm not being a good,

a good mom. if I'm not, I like having the balance of both. Yeah. It totally keeps your mind really sharp and focused. And even people who are stay at home moms, it's not stay at home, put your feet out. It's odd. And you hate that term actually.

Yeah, it's awful. I really do, because I think all mothers, whatever you choose to do, I just think they're superheroes, you know. It's a tough gig. Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough gig. So I hate that term, stay-at-home mum. Yeah, precisely.

So why does anyone have to stay at home anyway, whether there are mum or not? But yeah, totally. And you know, but I see a lot of women who in the clinic, obviously I see a lot of more women who are perimenopausal and menopausal, so the hormone levels are fluctuating, they're reducing. But increasingly, I'm seeing younger people who have hormonal changes. But so many women say to me, do you know what, I felt amazing when I was pregnant, like the best ever.

If I could bottle up that feeling, I would do it again. And I saw someone recently at my clinic who's had really bad depression, low mood because of her low hormones. She's 56 and she said, my husband's even talking about me going to fertility clinic abroad because I just want to get pregnant. I can't carry on living like this, which is awful. And I was like, well, actually, I can give you hormones. You don't have to get pregnant for that. But when I was pregnant three times, I was very lucky. I had lots of help in the NHS.

I had a midwife, I had a health visitor. I saw a guy in a college or an obstetrician. Like, everyone was just really lovely educating me and it was only nine months. But no one really prepared me for, like, afterwards. Like, what happens when the hormones go off a cliff when you have the baby and prepare you for the future? I know you've had two pregnancies.

Like, will you talk much about hormones and how they work in our bodies? You know, my first pregnancy was quite unique because I had experiences in my personal life that potentially might have overshadowed any sort of hormone change or imbalance. And I think after Sunday was born as well, like I really was in a state of fight or flight

and she was the light at the end of the tunnel. Right. She was such a wonderful focus. I experienced a really good pregnancy. with both of my girls. But yeah, I think talking about hormones, I'm fascinated by them. And with Finty and what I went through with Sunday,

I'm really interested in, I believe that the first nine months of our lives in the womb play a massive part of who we are and how our life begins. And I don't think we talk about, it enough. I don't know enough about it, but I feel it and I sense it with my girls and, you know, what I went through and pregnancy and everything like that. And I'm just really interested in it. And when I then found out that I was pregnant with Finty, I really wanted to dedicate time to

learn about what my body was going to go through with birth. And I was really set on having a home birth and really interested in how I can get myself in that calm meditative state to have the most positive birth. I know birth you can't, you can only plan so much. Absolutely. Because birth can be unpredictable. But to put myself in a place that is at my optimal. So I did hypno birthing and learn about oxytocin.

and what blocks oxytocin, which is adrenaline and what happens to our bodies when we're, when we're stressed, we tense. And then when we tense, we don't relax, which opens our cervix and the dilates and everything like that and breathwork. And then I was exploring how we can boost our oxytocin. I had an amazing, and I have to say this, only because I've spoke about my birth, publicly before and I really really understand by the way that it is it can be a really sensitive subject for a lot of mothers and I really just want to say like

this isn't me boasting at all like I don't want people to think all right you had a lucky it was lucky for you and everything but the same time I feel like it's important that I share this experience to let expectant mothers know that it is possible to have like a really beautiful experience yeah positive experience and I think that we hear a lot about the negative experience and you don't want to take that away from those that want to share that. But I also think it's equally important that you hear like the positive ones so you're not super scared. Because when we're scared, again, we freeze and we tense and it leads to intervention. So I just simply understood the hormones

and what I needed to do to boost the oxytocin. And that was being at home, that was, I even had my little cockapoo there. I mean, if that's not oxytocin levels, like boosting, stroking my cockapoo, like she was there at the birth. And it was very calm and a really amazing experience. And like I said, euphoric and sort of out of this world, although like the midwife, she wasn't going to make it.

on time it happened so quickly we had to have an ambulance so i just want to like to say it was a bit of adrenaline going there was there was there always has to be something that didn't go to plan soon as the paramedics walked in i just like i'd done this big breath and finti finty arrived so yes it was really interesting for me to like find out okay we we have control over yeah or do we I don't like. Well, no, I think it's very interesting because oxytocin is a, is the sort of love hormone, if you like, it's the hormone that we've secreted when we have a nice hug. Yeah.

We feel happy. It's that's sort of warm, happy feeling. And it's a hormone that's so under-researched. You know, I was asking my husband the other day, what do you know about oxytocin? He's a doctor. He said, oh, it's associated with milk production. It's when the milk comes in for the woman. It's like, right, you're so simplistic.

It's more than that, actually. Yeah. But we don't, so much about hormones. has been stripped away because everyone's scared of hormones. You say hormones and everyone thinks, oh, it's HRT, it's something terrible, it's breast cancer. They don't realize we produce hundreds of hormones in our body. They all work very closely together. And oxytocin is just another hormone, but it's a really important hormone.

Like, how do we get more naturally in our body? Why do some people have more than others? Like, why aren't we researching this? Because I think it's so important because there's nothing wrong with feeling calm, loved, warm. you know, even if we're just loving ourselves, that's a really good place to be. And so, and then what you're describing with the adrenaline, the cortisol, the noradrenaline, that balance of hormones. So all our hormones work together.

They don't work in isolation, which some people think, you know, they all work very closely together. But also, you know, we can control some of them ourselves. So what you're describing, whether it's birth or a stressful experience, controlling your vagusely nerve with your calm breathing is really crucially important. Anything that's going to switch off the cortisol adrenaline, boost any calming natural hormone. You know what I mean? And so I know I do quite a lot of yoga and when I'm feeling a bit nervous, I just focus on my breathing. And it's something we can control ourselves. You know, there's so much externally we can't control.

Yeah. But the breathing, getting that vagus nerve going, our autonomic system is really important. I think that's so cool because breath, the power of breath, is accessible to everyone. Of course it is. And it's like something that isn't taught. It's not taught and it's really undervalued actually. That's what makes it so powerful. Yeah. Yeah.

So that skill is, you know, that's where you're talking about your birthing story, it doesn't really matter that it was you've been pregnant. It could be any other situation. And the more we think about our breathing, it's so important. And it's been ignored for. long because in medicine we always want like a new drug to prescribe and we forget the fundamentals that we can do without medication that's going to help us mentally and physically and breathing doesn't sound very exciting, does it?

No. But as you probably learn, it's so powerful and so important. So powerful. I learned about breath work through hypno birthing and how it changes to, you know, your deep breaths and in and out and then to the panting. Because I was like adamant I didn't want to tear with Sunday I had to have stitches. And then with Finty, I was like,

the panting when the head is crowning and then you change to the, and then I then didn't, and then I so vividly remember this like big, just felt like a big crescendo that I just then, and then fully surrendered. and let go, like in one big breath and she was here. And the difference with Sunday I fully, fully pushed and it was like so much force and probably all in your throat. Yeah, exactly.

So super into breathwork and the power of it. And I hope you carry it on. Yes, for sure. And like, I feel anxious and stressed at times and yeah, like always tune into my breath and big into meditation. Yeah. Yeah, it's so important. My oldest all to as a trombonist and spends a lot of time talking about breath work. Oh, wow. Oh, okay. And the more she learns, the more we talk about it. And, you know, it's just fascinating. But we just don't, we do too much mouth breathing.

We shallow breathe. And we're worried, like you say, our breathing becomes faster and faster, which switches on more of our stress. And then, you know, the way are other hormones, so when we have low progesterone, we have more cortisol as well. So we have more stress hormone when people don't have. the right hormones. So in perimenopause, also postnatally, you know, we have really high levels of estradiol progesterone and even our testosterone increases and then it falls off a cliff when we

when we have a baby. So Dr. Louise, tell me, right, I feel like I don't want to use this as like a GP session, but perimenopause all, I'm 35 this year. I don't know a lot about it. I hear, I hear about it. It's such a buzzword, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what, yeah, am I going to experience it? Or does everyone experience? Well, most people do, yes. Or is it just straight into menopause? No, most people are perimenopause, but don't realize it. So it's, it's, the whole thing is ridiculous because menopause, if you look it up, it means a year since your last period. Is that what it is? That's all it, that's what it means. A year since. Yeah, which is absolutely ridiculous. Like, why do we wait a whole year after our period to go and talk to someone and it,

you know, I don't quite know who decided that. But menopause is really what happens is our own hormones that are produced in our ovaries decline because we get older and we only have so many hormones, so many eggs in our ovaries. But these hormones are also produced in our brain, in our adrenal glands, in other tissues as well. So, but they don't usually just decide to switch off overnight. The only reason they do that is if someone has their ovaries removed

and then they have a surgical menopause. But for most of us, as we get older, our hormone levels are just declining, but they go in a very chaotic decline. So they don't just go down in a nice smooth line. They're up down, up down, up down. We don't get it easy, do we? It's absolutely awful.

So for lots of women, perimenopause, this chaos of hormones can actually trigger a lot more symptoms than menopause because our body likes everything the same, you know, likes us to go to bed the same time, get up the same time, eat regularly, you know, just... And so you can imagine hormones in our brain going up and down, A lot of people have low mood, low energy, they feel irritable, they feel angry, they feel low in their mood, reduce self-esteem, have brain fog, memory problems.

But that's not related to periods. So a lot of people are thinking, well, maybe I'm depressed, maybe I can't cope with life, maybe I'm stressed. And it's not until they have their hormones back that you realize, oh gosh, actually, it was related to my hormones. And there isn't a test. You can't just go and do a blood test or a saliva test or a urine test. it's more about the woman knowing her body

and knowing these symptoms that are occurring are not normal for me and they're often associated with some physical symptoms like palpitations, sometimes people get flush of sweats but sometimes people get dry skin, they get hair and nail changes, they might get some heartburn or some reflux and so when you sort of tease it together

you can sort of join the dots and go I wonder if it's related to my hormones So do some women go, like, do they, is it like misdiagnosed? Yeah, all the time often. So we see people that come to our clinic and they've been seeing cardiologists for their palpitations. They've been seeing psychiatrists for their low mood. They've been seeing bowel specialists for their irritable bowel symptoms. They've been seeing dermatologists for their skin.

They've had urinary tract infections and they've, no one's like worked out, oh, maybe it's related to your hormones. And a lot of people, it's that dip that they naturally have before their periods. They can get some symptoms. So that's PMS premenstrual syndrome or PMD is the more severe form premenstrual dysphoria disorder. But also postnatally, you've got a massive drop of hormones. Yeah. And so that's a little window of how people often feel.

But they think it's because they're tired, they're not sleeping, they've got a baby, it's all very stressful. But actually it can be related as well. But the problem is people don't. talk about it enough. We don't share their stories and experiences. And then it's almost like, oh, it's normalized. It's just something that will happen to us. But we shouldn't be suffering if there's, and we just replace with missing hormones,

it's very easy treatment. Post-pregnancy. Sometimes in post-pregnancy, it's just stopping that, you know. But because I agree with you. I feel like it's like after, after giving birth, I experienced that really low mood. and really emotional, especially when my milk come in, it wasn't really baby blues as such, but I definitely noticed that sort of like one minute.

I was feeling like super in the baby bubble, and then it was like, whoa, I'm really emotional. I'm really, like, really sad. But I agree. I just thought, oh, this is part of the process. Yeah. And do people want to sort of, like, alter that or change? Because, you know, I sort of feel like, oh, the same time I don't want added hormones.

Is this just what my body's meant to go through and just let nature take its course? Yeah, it depends how bad it is. Sometimes it's only for a few days, fine. But for many women, you know, postnatal depression is very common. It's one of the commonest causes of death, actually, in young women is suicide from postnatal depression. And those people, when they have very low hormones, take longer to get up, than giving back natural hormones, different to contraception, can be really transformational. But a lot of people don't join the dots in medicine.

So these people are having antidepressants or whatever. So there's so much we need to do. But the first thing is just talking about it and allowing women to understand what's going on with their bodies. I have to admit my community midwife and the health visitor were incredible. Yeah. They were asking all the right questions. And I felt very supported.

Good. I feel like they want you to win. Yeah. They're there to help. Yeah. So absolutely. So before we finished, you told me at the beginning you've got two children and you're stopping. I said that when I was 35.

Yeah. My 40th birthday, I found out I was pregnant with my third. So let's say you're never. Oh, my goodness. Amazing. Well, yeah. So what have you got? What's your next focus?

What are you up to? So, yeah, my sensible head is like, okay, no more babies. I don't feel done, but I've got my two girlies and yeah. Yeah. Am I done? I don't know. But lots of really exciting projects. Obviously, I finished the reality show last year to just explore other passions.

So we've got a brand new podcast launching called EveryCloud. Exciting. Really exciting. I can't wait because this is the first time that I've hosted podcasts alongside brands, but this is like my, yeah, my advice, Louise, that you can give me. Do you know what? I love my podcast, but I love being able to choose guests. Be really selected.

and you're in control as well, which is really good. Yeah. So I enjoy it. Super excited about that. It's sharing insights. I've had therapy for seven years and had a real transformation and been on a journey of healing and just chatting about real life problems and having their silver line in moments speaking to all sorts from professionals in their field to celebrities and, yeah, normal people.

So really excited for that. And we are, we're about to launch a digital food show, which is really exciting. And just looking forward to this year to, yeah, like I said, explore different passions. And I'm not saying that, you know, the reality show, it was a lot. It was about our personal life. And it was time to close the chapter, close the door on that chapter. So just so excited to try new things. this year. Exciting. Yeah. So just before I end, I always ask for three take-home tips.

Oh, wow. So I'm going to ask you three things that you think our listeners could do this easy. If they're thinking, oh, it all sounds great, but I haven't got the confidence or I don't know how to do something new. If they want to do a new challenge, whether it's a mental challenge, a physical challenge, what are the three tips that you think would be easy to then to think? Okay, my first one is about fitness and it is to really just try a few things to see what you like because I think we see so much on social media and I know there's this big sort of like everyone seems to be doing reformers on my discovery feed. I don't know, you know, reformers Pilates obviously it's having its moment and it is good but I think that my sister loves that whereas me I need something a bit more fast-paced

So if you want to get fit and you want to keep active, find something that you love for you. I hate doing spin classes, but I absolutely love going out and getting the steps in. So you don't have to go and run a marathon to have success in fitness. Just find something that you really enjoy. Oh, the pressure. I'm on the spot. Okay, I'm a massive, massive foodie. and a big tip would be to not cut out food groups.

And again, the things that you love, like I am struggling with this whole a Zempic, you know, skinny jab thing at the moment. I get that it works to some people and that's absolutely fine. But for me, like, if you were to tell me that I would be suppressing my appetite and I can't eat, I'd be like, what, that is my job. you're taking away. So I don't like to cut out any food groups and everything in moderation. So I would say like Monday to Friday, I eat healthy and clean. And then the weekend, I like to have a

treat. It is difficult with the girls because Sunday is very beige. She loves the chicken nuggets and chips. Finty, I'm like trying to undo all the wrongs that I've done with Sunday and she's having like all her veggies and really, really nutritious. But I have. I have. I have. I have, would just be trying to give as much, like I like healthy swaps. So if you want to have a fake away. So if you want to have like a naughty treat, try and make it yourself. And with the kids meals, like the hidden veg sauce and all of this, a sprinkle of chire seeds on top of Sunday's porridge, just when I can try and get in

their little healthy hacks. And then the third one, breathwork. Okay, yes. You know, someone told me actually. in a yoga class and it was amazing and it you know what someone just says something once and it just stays with you is she said have you had a conscious breath today and I think breath is we take it for granted and we can all do it now is just take that one conscious breath to really just tune into that present moment and just center and ground ourselves because we can go about

our busy days and not take that moment to just actually tune in to something, like I said earlier, that's so accessible and so, yeah, like pretty life-changing. So just take a conscious breath. I love that. This has been gorgeous. Thank you.