The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 104 - Mindfulness and Menopause with yoga teacher Claudia Brown

Episode Date: June 22, 2021

Back for a second time on the podcast, Dr Louise Newson is joined by yoga teacher, Claudia Brown who runs workshops at Newson Health Menopause and Wellbeing Centre.  Claudia is an Om Yoga magazine columnist and runs classes, workshops and retreats in Cheshire and the West Midlands. She is currently launching, ‘The Ultimate Wellness Experience – Mindfulness and Menopause.’  She also works with professional footballers, teaching yoga at a number of football clubs!  Together, Dr Newson and Claudia discuss mindfulness, what it is and what it isn’t, why compassion and embodied cognition are so important during your menopause journey, and they discover that Louise is actually an advanced mindfulness practitioner!    Claudia’s 3 Top Tips for your mindfulness practice are as follows,  STOP.  Build time into your day / schedule to stop, breathe, move, and treat it like you would treat an important meeting.  Make an event of it!  When you have decided what works for you (for eg, a mindful shower or a mindful walk) really make an event of it and take in all 5 senses, sound, sight, taste, touch and smell)  BE KIND TO YOURSELF!  Tame that Inner Critic and remember, you can have awareness but without compassion it isn’t mindfulness.    Claudia Brown Email: [e-mail] Instagram: yogabyclaudia Facebook: www.facebook.com/yogabyclaudiauk

Welcome to the Newsome Health Menopause podcast. I'm Dr Louise Newsome, a GP and menopause specialist, and I'm also the founder of the Menopause charity. In addition, I run the Newsome Health Menopause and Well-Being Clinic here in Stratford-upon-Avon. So in this week's podcast, I'm really excited to introduce to you again, Claudia Brown, who some of you hopefully will have listened to a podcast that we require. we did a while ago now about yoga and Claudia is a yoga teacher who has worked with us in the clinic for quite some time now, but she also has other skills. And today we're actually going to talk about mindfulness, which is a word that has been around for a while, but most of us still get confused actually what it means and how to practice it. So welcome again, Julia. Hi, Louise. Thank you for having me again. It's great to be here. No, it's great. We first met in Manchester, didn't we? It must have been a couple of years ago.

now, I think. I think it must be at least three. It was a yoga show in Manchester. It was. And I pinned you into a corner and made you talk to me. It was great. I felt a bit nervous, being surrounded by yoga gurus and I'm just there as a doctor who likes practicing yoga. But it was everyone made me feel very welcome, especially you. And it was great. And I think then it was good because we had all sorts of connections. And I think a lot of people think you You either do conventional medicine or you do yoga and you're very alternative. And it's almost like yoga teachers can't take conventional medicine and medics can't do yoga or practice yoga or recommend it. And of course that's ridiculous. It's all about choosing something that's right and looking very

holistically. And certainly as a physician, I want to be holistic. And as a yoga teacher, you want to be holistic as well. So it's joining together is really good and it's very powerful, isn't it? Absolutely. I totally support the traditional medical model and I often say to people the clues in the title with complementary therapies, they're complementary, but also play a really, really important part of that wider model. And so when you think about the traditional model quite often doesn't even include nutrition. Oh, it's madness. And then you can then start to layer on the mental health stuff, the movement stuff. And it just, yeah, I find it really, really interesting.

It totally is. I mean, I'm glowing today because I've had a one, well, there's three of us, three to one with James Critchlow, who's the most amazing yoga teacher in the world. And we've not seen him for a few months because of lockdown. So we've had a real life session this morning. And there's nothing beats having someone there with you, correcting you, and making sure that your postures are as good as they can be for that day. So we're going to sort of mindfulness.

And over the last few years, well, mindfulness has been quite a big thing. And when it first started talking about, I had no idea what people were talking about. And then I thought, gosh, I have to go on a course. I have to read a book. I have to, you know, what is it? And I got so worried. I just forgot actually about what I was thinking. And I used my mind a lot because I have a lot of time.

I don't have much time on my own, but sometimes in the car or when I'm in the shower. And I really like the time. And even just when I make a cup of tea, just smelling it or just being aware of my sensations. and I think it's really important, isn't it? But just explain to us, Claudia. Let's just get it out there. Tell us what mindfulness is. Well, you've already done my job there.

That was really good. No, I mean, I also went on a course. As part of your basic yoga teacher training, you cover a lot of things, but you only study for 200 hours. So it's very much around the movement side of yoga and quite a lot around the theory and the background and the history.

So as I started to talk, work more in the corporate sector, I was asked for mindfulness, because as you said, it's become really popular. And I realized that I needed to be very clear about, A, what I thought it was, but also B, what the business sector thought it was. So I always think about training, you go to the best place. And for me, it was Oxford University. There's a lot of work being done in Oxford by Mark Williams, Professor Mark Williams. And so I thought, right, well, I'm going to go to Oxford University. Good for you. So I did. I went to school and it was absolutely amazing. So I spent a week there. I stayed in halls. This was in 2017. And it was a fabulous experience. But it made me realize and

understand that actually there's sort of two strands of mindfulness. The first one is more the traditional model that would sit in the medical model, which is around mindfulness-based cognitive therapy, which is what Professor Williams established in this country. And the people who lead that are people who have done quite an in-depth training course over a number of years. And it's very much sits in the mental health model. And for me, that's somebody who is in its widest sense a medic, or they have studied mental health. And then there's the more popular culture definition of mindfulness, which has pulled strands from that model, which people like myself in the yoga world, do quite a lot of work on. So, for example, body scans, breathing techniques, mindful movement,

mindful walking, that kind of thing. And so I realized quite quickly I didn't want to be a properly trained mindfulness-based cognitive therapist. That was not for me. But actually, it began to make a lot more sense in terms of what I could offer to my clients as a yoga teacher. And so it was a really, really beneficial week that I'm so glad I did because it really made me understand what it was all about. And like you've said, it's really just that being aware of your sensations, taking the time to just notice what's going on in the body, because quite often we're so busy, we're stuck on this pilot all the time. I think we've all had that experience of pulling into the car park at work and then not remembering which route we took or looking at the clock and thinking it's already

half past three in the afternoon and I can't even remember what I've done for the last two hours. So it's very much about not focusing so much on the doing, doing all the time and more about the being. So there's quite a few cheesy phrases that we can throw around. But, you know, it's really what you said. It's just about having that awareness of the body and the mind, the link between the two. I think it's very important, isn't it? Because I think for many years we've sort of undervalued the power of our brains and our mind. And there's been so much focus on our bodies.

You know, how good do you look? How strong are your muscles? You know, how slim are you? What size jeans can you wear? But actually, our brains control every single thing we do. And a lot of us who have experienced menopausal symptoms know how hard. it is when our brains doesn't function. But as you know, at the end of yoga, we often meditate. And I was talking to my daughter actually last weekend, my oldest daughter about meditation.

And I was listening to a podcast and he was saying, actually a lot of people meditate all the time. You're just thinking about your task at that time. You're clearing your brain of everything else. And I think the whole thing about clearing your brain is really important because some of you who might know me realize that I have a lot going on. And I'm very, very busy. And in fact, I've never work this hard in my life. And the only way I can do it is by clearing my brain and concentrating. So I've got loads going on later, but actually my time now is to talk to you, Georgia. And if I worry about it or not, it makes no difference. So I might as well just enjoy the experience of talking to you, connecting, listening to every word. And then in half an hour, I'll get to my next

meeting and I'll concentrate then. And that's been a really important tool, actually, for me to really survive with what I'm doing at the moment. Otherwise, I think I would just fall over with stress. It's what we would refer to as one pointed awareness. Oh, right. Okay. But it's about having that focus. So you're actually far more mindful than you realize. Very good. And a lot of the practices that we would do as a mindfulness practice. And it's like what you said at the end of the yoga class, you meditate for five minutes or you do a shavasana. And what I realized was that a lot of people who were doing my classes, we were very focused on this hour class. And it's, we were very focused on this hour and at least 50 minutes was focused on the movement,

but actually a lot of the scientific evidence, because again, you and I are very clear that we both like to have this evidence base and the scientific facts behind us, that quite often the really good stuff that comes out in the science is around the breath work and the meditation and the quietness, not about doing a downward dog and a round of sunsuits.

And so I used to get people coming to my classes and they would say, can we just do an hour of chavisna? And I was like one of these days, that is what we're going to do and I'm going to call you out. And then it was actually when we went into lockdown last year. I think like everybody, we all had a few weeks of mania in terms of how we could cope personally, professionally and everything else. And I really relied on the softer side of my yoga practice, which was the mindfulness stuff.

It was the yoga nidra, the relaxation, the breathing exercises. And I really lived that for about a month because there was so. so much that we couldn't control. So what I did, I developed a program that I still deliver online now. I'm actually just in the middle of the third sort of iteration of it. And I joke and say it's all the good stuff about yoga without the movement. So you can do it from bed in your pajamas. And it's what you said.

Like last night, we did a tea ceremony. And we just make a real big deal about, you know, smelling the tea bag, holding the mug. being aware of what it feels like tuning into all the senses. And we did a chocolate meditation as well, which I do for a bit of a laugh. Again, you think about very little apart from that chocolate when we're doing that. So it really is about being able to focus the mind on that one thing to then quiet now, everything else. So there you go.

You're a very advanced mindfulness practitioner, Louise. Even though I don't know the words, yeah. But it is so interesting, isn't it? because I think, you know, we are on a conveyor belt, a bit like hamsters in our hamster wheel out, when we sort of, we do things and we don't think about them. And then suddenly, I mean, I find, I'm sure you're the same, because you're busy every night when you go to bed,

I think, where's that day gone? Yeah. But actually, we've really got to enjoy every moment. And some of you listening know, my father died when he was only 40. So I'm constantly thinking every day it might be our last. I know that sounds really depressing, but we don't know what's around the corner.

But we have to enjoy. even if it is something that's a bit tedious, you know, empty the dishwasher, I don't know that I really enjoy it. But then I'll try and think about what's been good today, what's happened that I've enjoyed. Yeah, gratitude practice. I mean, again, that goes back to yoga. You say namaste at the end, and you're thanking your body, you're thanking your mat, you're thanking the time, really. And it's a sort of way of being grateful. And I think I am actually quite a negative person, believe it or not.

And I think actually, if you're negative all the time, no one wants to be with you because you're just like, oh, this is the never going to work. You don't even want to be with yourself. Do you? So now I'm just going, yeah, come on, we can conquer the world. We can improve the global health of women. And everyone says, don't be ridiculous. Of course you can. Come on. Let's develop a nap. Let's go ahead. Absolutely.

Civil and revolution. I keep saying that's over one. Well, absolutely. And actually, I'm not going to be disappointed, but I will a bit if I don't help everyone. But actually, if you aim really high, but then you enjoy the journey. So, yes, I get very frustrated. But there are things that we can always enjoy. that's really important, isn't it? And again, you've got that focus and it is really beneficial for all women. And I know I've found, as my sort of perimenopause has progressed, that it's about

being around these like-minded women that provide support and that we can then channel maybe some of the more negative thoughts into the positive. And again, for me, I found that the worst trigger for any of my symptoms has been stress. And I know that, again, it's just one of those things in life. We accept as a given, well, we're busy. I mean, you've said this yourself. You know, I'm busy. I've got three kids. I'm running this business. I'm involved in the charity. And actually, for me, as soon as I'm stressed, that will be when the sweats start or a start to get a bit panicky. And it's always the just stop, breathe, going back into those really sort of basic practices. And it works. I was going to say it's not magic.

It does feel magical though, doesn't it? And it's very difficult because stress is a very common and anxiety, very common symptoms of the perimenopause and menopause, as you know, but they're also common symptoms anyway. And, you know, I've spoken at length and I will continue, but not today in the podcast talk about benefits of HRT, but also you have to look at other things as well, like you say, these complementary treatments. And it's whatever works for, for you, but I know if I haven't done a yoga practice for at least three, maybe four days, I start to wobble and I just can't think because clearly I don't sleep as well. I just, it's really difficult actually.

And then you can get this downwards by where you think, oh, there's no point doing it now because it's been a week actually. And then sometimes actually, you've fallen off the wagon. Yeah, yeah, and to what's the point. But then actually sometimes if I have left it a week, after my practice, it gets really strong because every single movement counts and I'm really focusing. Whereas if you do it every day,

it's like a bit, oh, it's like going for walking apart. You're not concentrating. And I want every movement to count because I want to be physically and mentally strong. But it would be very easy to blame my hormones. And I don't think it is my hormones because I take the right dose and type of HRT for me. But it's these pathways in our brain and our body.

It's a connection, isn't this? It's really important. Yeah. It's what we would sort of say in a mindfulness term. It's this embodied cognitive. and it's that path of the mind and the body. And when we're really busy, when we're stressed, when we're on this autopilot,

we're not picking up on those messages that the body is sending us. And for me, that is the crossover of the stressy symptoms and the perimenopause symptoms. And it's that trigger of if I'm a bit stressed or I'm rushing or it can even be excitement so it can be that good stress. That is when I will sweat. Now that never started to happen to me until my sort of early 40s. And that really, when I look back now, I put it down to us having a particularly hot summer.

And of course, and it wasn't, and I do laugh about that now. You know, and that is what was starting. And it was times where I was, I mean, I did a session for Staffordshire Police who are very, very proactive around supporting the women going through the menopause. and I started having a hot sweat because I was just starting to wind myself up and excited but a bit nervous. And so when they introduced me, I was rolling in sweat almost. And I said, here is the perfect view of what a menopausal woman looks like. I'm having a hot sweat for you. And I was joking, but that was what was happening to me.

And I didn't even realize. No, and that happened so much. So often during the perimenopause, when hormones just start to change, the psychological symptoms can come. And in fact, I gave a talk a while ago now to a company about menopause. And quite often happens when I gave a talk, people start crying because they realize it hits a nail for them. But there was a lady who said at the end, actually, she was lovely because she spoke to the old audience. And she said 10 years ago, actually to the day, I was promoted in work. And listening to you talk, it's made me realize I haven't had a period for 10 years.

And I thought it was the stress of a new job. And all the symptoms that you're talking about being perimenopausal or menopausal and I've had, but I've just thought it's because I had a promotion, I've got children, it's because I've been working so hard. And now I realized I didn't have to struggle for those 10 years. And she was very emotional thinking about it all because she haven't picked it up. And she actually, I gave her a copy of my book, The Haynes Menopause Manual. And she emailed me a few months later to say, you know, I've received help. And I'm now taking HRT and I feel amazing. And I just feel sad that I've been robbed of those 10 years because although I've done well in my job, I could have

done even better. And we hear this. So, often and it is trying to acknowledge because I think if people are anxious or stressed, it's almost shameful to admit it. If you had a sore arm or I had a bruise on my arm, I would say, Claudia, look at this bruise. Look how it is. Gosh, that's really painful. And you'd give me got so simple and it would be great. But if I said to other people, show up, I've had a really bad night and I'm really worried about the 1,0001 things I need to do. And it's quite hard. But I also know that if I come into work and say to everyone, gosh, I can't cope with this, this is really difficult.

They wouldn't look at me and give me to think, oh no, she's my boss. If she's worried, how are they going to me? So actually, as I've got older, I internalise more and think I'm not going to put my worries into everyone else. Because actually everyone's got their own worries. And some worries of financial, some worries is because the cat's just thrown up everywhere and you need him up it up. Well, there's levels of worries, but they're all the worry. And even if it's a small one, it's still affecting people.

So I, wrongly or right, in the last few years, I've thought, right, I'm not going to talk to everyone about how worried or anxious or whatever I am. I'm going to actually work out myself how much I can do and then I'm just going to be quiet and look at positive things. And then the worries become less because you can catastrophize quite quickly, can't you, if you've got an anxiety. Absolutely. And I had a quick look through some of my notes and the little booklet that I got at Oxford and one of the main things that I kept writing every day was his thoughts are not facts. Yes, that's interesting. And it's so important. And again, it feeds into these stories that we tell ourselves

that all of a sudden it becomes a fact and it isn't. It's just this little voice in the head and you're no good, you're lazy, you're fat. And we're so vile to ourselves. And the thing is with a mindfulness practice, it's about being aware. But we're not, you're not. And with compassion. And so it's about looking at being compassionate, not just to others around you, but also to yourself. And I think it's so easy to give yourself a hard time. And again, that cheesy comment of, well, you know, the way you speak to yourself, you would never speak to somebody else like that. And it's so true. It's totally, isn't it? I read something about pretend you've got a twin and identical twin and all these things you have, talk to your twin.

So if you're feeling worried, you know, say to you. your twin, what's worrying you? How can I help? Honestly, you're really not that awful or you're, of course, you're feeling bad. I always feel very inadequate about what I do. But if I had a twin, which is ridiculous, Louise, on the outside. Well, yeah, because there's so much it needs to be done. But that's the thing. And I think, actually, that whole woe is me actually then gets worse. So I like the idea of having a little twin on my shoulder who just sort of freaks me up a bit. And also those voices, those things, you wouldn't say that to the twin. I wouldn't say that tittering. So again, that mental chatter, the busyness, which again, in yoga terms, is why we meditate, which is why we would do the breath work. It's to quiet and down, to turn down all that nonsense and the chatter, which we all have. That's the joke I make when we do something like the chocolate meditation. You know, we've just had a bit of a giggle looking

at the chocolate and smelling it and all that kind of thing. But actually, you weren't thinking about the global health of women while we were doing that chocolate meditation. It wasn't because I know I tried to meditate about 25 years ago. It was the first. I wasn't doing yoga then at all, never done any yoga. So I made a book about meditation and I lay down on my bed. Oh, my buddy was just dry as bones. It was terrible.

It was so boring. And I was trying to remember everything was to do. And I lay there and I was thinking, do you know what? All I'm doing is thinking about all the things I need to do and what waste of time this is. And it was just noise, noise, noise in my head. And I thought, I can never, ever do my way. meditation. And then it's only since doing yoga and then, but it's more about I find the only way I can do it's visualising all these thoughts, just not let them in my brain. So I just visualize them going,

going, going, rather than thinking about what I should be doing with my brains and my thoughts. And I know everyone's different, aren't it? I mean, there's different types of meditation, isn't there? There is. And it's finding something that works for you. It's really personal and loads of really good apps out there. So for me, I quite like a guided meditation so that my focus. is on that voice and not what's going on in my head. And also I don't have to make an effort. You know, I just listen to that other person. But then even down to an accent, so I would prefer a female voice, but I prefer a British accent. So if it's a really droly, and I love Americans, but American accent, I don't find that particularly relaxing. So I always do prefer

a female voice and an English accent. I don't know. But everybody's different. And it It's just finding something that works for you. And it can even be, it's like you said about, you know, some of the things that you do. The shower is a fantastic one, mindful showering. As part of the prep for the summer school, you had to do the work. You had to do the eight-week program, which is mindfulness practices every day. And the game changer for me was a mindful shower. And so most of us have showers most days.

And you jump in, do whatever you do, and then off you get. And in that same amount of time, you could actually just stop and take into account the warmth of the water, how it feels on the skin, the smell of the shower gel. I mean, I've got a real thing about shower gels now because that's a massive part for me. So I'm not spending, you know, more time there, but it alters what's going on because I'm not thinking about, got to do this, got to do that, to do it, not thinking about what the shower gel smells like, what it feels like on my body. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just little things like that that you can bring into your day that will make all the difference. And have you had some good results when you help women and men as well. Yeah. It's funny because, like I say, I've been running stuff online. And I think for a lot of people, it's the ability to stop. And for some women, it feels very indulgent that they are having this time to themselves to go through guided meditations, relax. and just to also stop and think about what they can feel going on in their bodies.

And it's something I talk about a lot in my yoga classes as well. What does it feel like? Is it different on each side? What's happening? Because we stop listening to the messages the body is sending us. And often I will have women contact me the next day saying that they'd slept particularly well that night. Now, for me, I don't find it has a positive effect.

on my sleep. For me, it's going out for long walks that really helps me sleep at night. But I would say out of every 10 women, there's probably about three or four that will say, I know that is the night, I will have a really, really good sleep. And we know again with women going through menopause that often sleep problems are one of the main things that then spirals into other issues because they just end up being exhausted because their sleeping is so terrible. And that was happening for me, again, looking back, but the HRT really, really helped. Interestingly, for me, it was the testosterone that helped my sleep in more than the estrogen. And it often does actually, estrogen does make a difference. So a lot of people sleep, but testosterone

as well, I think. And, you know, it's only a very low dose of testosterone, so it's not nearly as high as men have, but it does make me realise why men sleep so well. And certainly, when he once had babies or children, Well, you know, when we've had babies, it's always the women that get up, isn't it? The men just, you know, sleep or anything. Well, I suppose not to have them. I have the cat that's being sick on the carpet. And I think, you know, the power of sleep is huge, isn't it? I think we underestimate how having sleep.

And there are so many things that you can read or listen to about sleep. And everyone's different. Like you say, it's very interesting. Some people find certain lifestyles or practices. will help them sleep and others will find that it may be hinders, but it's really important because sleep's very restorative for our brains and our minds, isn't it? And when we're busy, the first thing that you think, I'd love to not sleep. How amazing, you'd have an extra six, seven hours every day. When do you sleep? I do. I have at least six hours. I try and get seven hours a night,

but I sleep really well. I'm an eight-hour girl, absolutely, without doubt. But you see, I don't drink alcohol either. And that makes me very productive. In fact, my husband yesterday, he's on call this week, and he said to me, I don't know how you manage. I don't like my brain. I can't switch off without even just a glass of wine because obviously he doesn't drink when he's on cold. No, my poison's chocolate, not the boo. I don't drink a lot at all. And my thing for that is that I'd rather have the calories in food.

Yeah, because I'm just a greedy guts. There we go, the story is. It is true. I can eat a lot. But it's about choice. And I think it's, you know, I don't actually eat chocolate. I don't do caffeine. So I'm very restrictive to myself, but that's my choice.

And it's always all about what's right for you as an individual. And I think it's a great place really to sort of end and reflect thinking, no one has to do a certain thing. No one has to do yoga, has to do mindfulness. But I think a bit of what you fancy does you go, as my mother always used to say. And I think mindfulness everybody can do. There's no reason. You don't have to buy books.

You don't have to go on these courses. But you have to learn just very simple things that can make. a big difference. Yeah, absolutely. So I'd be really grateful, Claudia, if you could just to summarize really, maybe just say three things that would be really useful for those people who, like I was a few years ago, a bit scared of mindfulness. What would you say to sort of dip their toe in and find out a bit more? Well, considering we've established, you're an advanced practitioner at it. No, go, but no. So my three top tips. The first one is to just stop. Okay, so just stop and build in some time every day in your schedule to either go for that walk or to do some breathing exercises and treat it like a meeting.

So I've actually started treating my walking time as an important part in my diary as much as a private client or a work meeting. So that's my first one. It might even be to do your little fancy tea ceremony or something like that. It doesn't have to be, you know, get changed to go and do half an hour of yoga. My second one is to really then sort of focus in on what that's going to be. So for example, we talked about the shower. We've talked about the drinking tea. So whatever you choose as your mindfulness practice or practices to really go all out on it.

So really make a meal of it. So for me, the shower gel thing, I've got about seven different shower gels. I love it. And it's just my thing. And I really enjoy that. So really build it to something. thing that's a treat that you can look forward to. And then the third one is being kind to yourself, having that compassion, because you can have all of the awareness. But if you're not compassionate

with that awareness, it's then not mindfulness. So just being kind to yourself and, yeah, give yourself a break. Wait, really good advice. I'm going to try. Now I'm an advanced mindfulness. I'll be back to me on your showering Louise. There's always room for improvement, absolutely. So I will do a bit more when I have a shower tomorrow. So thanks. Excellent. Claudia.

Let me know how it goes. I will do. Yes. Think of me. I will. Thanks ever so much for your time. Really, really appreciate it. So thanks ever so much.

Oh, thank you, Louise. Thank you so much. For more information about the perimenopause and menopause, you can go to my website menopausedoctor.com.uker.uk or you can download our free app called Balance available through the App Store and Google Play.