The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 110 - Finding support with POI in the digital space with Anita Elawure

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

In this inspiring episode, Dr Louise Newson talks to Anita Elawure, a women’s health advocate, who shares her startingly honest experience of Premature Ovarian Insufficiency since she was a teenager. After many years of trying to ignore her situation, she began to look into what it really meant, for her fertility and the impact of living in a postmenopausal state for the rest of her life.  Anita decided to create a platform for her to share her experiences, in the hope that she and others wouldn't feel so alone, and provide a safe place that offered support and learning from others going through POI. Eighteen months ago, Anita founded Blossom Living with POI and, as her page says, “You have me. I have you. Together we blossom.”  Anita’s top 3 tips:  If you’re at the start of a journey with POI, find your support system. Get someone you can rely on emotionally, that can come to appointments with you or help you do research, because it’s so important.  If you know someone facing POI, be there for them, tell them you’re here for them and ask what you can do to help.  Sometimes it might feel like you’re going crazy. It’s OK. You’re not going crazy and your feelings are valid. Find ways to express yourself and take one day at a time. Advocate for yourself, understand your treatments, and know what you need to take care of yourself.  Follow Anita and Blossom Living with POI on Facebook, Instagram or YouTube 

Welcome to the Newsome Health Menopause podcast. I'm Dr Louise Newsome, a GP and menopause specialist, and I'm also the founder of the Menopause charity. In addition, I run the Newsome Health Menopause and Well-Being Clinic here in Stratford-upon-Avon. So today I'm really excited to introduce to you, Anita, who I've never met in real life. So we're just meeting via Zoom, as everyone, else is doing now these days. She's the founder of Blossom Living with POI. And for many of you who know, POI is premature ovarian insufficiency, which we'll talk about a bit more in a minute. But welcome, Anita. Thanks so much for joining me today. Thank you, Dr. Louise. And thank you so much for having me in here and giving me the opportunity to share my story. Oh, no, it's great. And I think hopefully a lot of people who listen to me know that it's all about trying to spread the word. I feel It's almost like a new religion, isn't it?

It's being able to listen to people's stories, listen to people's experiences, as well as knowing the evidence, talking to all sorts of people. And the podcast for me is just another forum, really, to try and reach more women. And so it's great. It's really good having you on. So tell me a bit about yourself and then about the Blossom Living with POI, Instagram and YouTube that you do. Of course. My name is Anita.

And I'm 31 years. old, soon to be 32 in July. And so I'm the founder of Blossom Living the POI page that I created about a year and a half ago. So one of the reason why I decided to create the page is because when I was initially diagnosed with POI, which was called POF at that time, I was told. It was really hard for me. I was really alone for a long time. I first alone and there was really no one for me to kind of interact with talk to or

even someone else that was going through what I was going through around me. And I didn't really think to look into the digital space then to find people. And I don't think there was much of a digital space then for a community of POI. So I was really alone for a lot. So I was isolated. And it was one particular event that I attended that really kind of just changed my perspective. And when I met other women there that were also going through the same thing. And I was like, wow.

So there are other people going through the same thing. not me. And I really wanted to share my story for the longest time, but it just didn't know how to. So at that point, I felt like I was ready to kind of share my own story as a form of representation and also because it's really hard to actually find someone as well the same as you who's going through the same thing. So as soon as I went into the digital space, there were so many women. I wanted to also connect with other women to talk about experiences, share our experiences. So that's kind of what got me to creating the page and to share my own story in hopes that people were able to belace as well too. It's amazing, isn't it, the digital space? I feel really old telling you this, but I graduated

before the internet. And so, you know, if I wanted to find anything, I either had to buy a book, I had to go to the library. Even as a medic, if I wanted to find, read a journal, I had to go to the library. I'd have to try and find the actual journal. Sometimes someone else had borrowed it, so I couldn't find it, and I'd have to go back the next week. I mean, I just can't believe I got anything done. I don't know how I managed to know anything. And textbooks were always out of date, because as soon as you produce a book, it's out of date, isn't it? So it's really difficult. And actually, as a doctor, I could only engage with my patients. There's no way I could engage with anyone else because how do you do it? Yes, you can go through the media and work

with journalists, but not in the way that the digital spaces and especially social media. And I think Instagram is an amazing platform actually, and it's a very friendly platform, I think. It's Twitter can be a bit harsh. I find myself not being really a Twitter person. I'm more of an Instagram person where you can actually like DM people, communicate with people. And then, you know, if you want to go outside that

to set up a community then to kind of see face to face and chat more and everything, it's, yeah, it's been a great space for me to kind of connect with other people as well to go into the same thing. Yeah. Yes, it is very good. So tell me a bit more, if you don't mind, about your story.

Of course, where do I start now? So for me, at 15, was the first time I had a period. And at that time, I really didn't know what a period was. I was a bit surprised when I was bleeding then. And the period only lasted for like a few days. And then it stopped. So at that age, then I was told, oh, yeah, it's normal to have a period and stuff. Of course, I was educated then and I'm there.

And it stopped. And you're supposed to get your period every single month. But after that, I didn't have any period. There was no period the following months. And for that rest of the year, there was nothing at all. And I remember bringing it up then and they were like, oh, don't worry about it. People get period at a later age, you're 25. It's okay, nothing to worry about.

I said, okay, that's fine. I'm young. I'm 15. Don't know any better. So I was in school then. So I went about my secondary school, just trying to, you know, as a teenager. So I had no period after that. 16, no period.

No period. like nothing for almost four years. Yes. Yeah, and I didn't think much about it. And it wasn't really a conversation that was at, like a conversation that went on among my peers in addition to talking about period or anything. I think I was more like, you know, when people were like,

oh, I'm having my period. I'm like, oh, yeah, me too. I'm happy. But nothing was actually going on. But you don't feel like it's comfortable to actually bring down, like, I'm not going to peer. You don't think about it because you're told it's okay. Yes, cool.

So it wasn't that kind of a communication. that kind of a space to have that conversation. So a few years later, still no period, nothing, no actions, nothing was taken up to find out what was good, nothing at all. So I remember during my time, I was doing a living set, I was a bit of a, what would you say, stubborn child. And I remember then, that's when I met my friend now, my close friend, she's more of a sister to me now, and we're having a conversation.

I don't know how the conversation came up. And I was like, I don't have my period. She was like, what? I was like, yeah, I don't have my period. I ran this time I was 18. I was going to be 19. I was like, I don't have my period. She's like, what do you mean?

She's like, that's not right. You need to get that check. I was like, no, I was told that it's fine, that some people have it later on, so it's okay. She's like, no, that's not okay. So, of course, she then went and confide in her family and aunt and stuff like that. And by then I was getting to know the family and everything. They called me. I said, that's not.

okay, you should go seek medical advice just to see what's going on. I was a bit reluctant to do that because I've been told by a family member that it's okay. This is someone who's looking after them. I've been told, so why would they? So it took me a while, and eventually I went into sick medical advice. I booked an appointment with the GP, and that's how it kind of went from there. The GP asked me some questions, there's some blood tests. And during this time, I really didn't understand what was going on.

Like I had no clue, but I knew that something was not right, obviously, because everybody was telling me. And I just didn't understand. So GP did some blood tests, and then I was referred to the gyno. And they formed the gyno. That's what they did for the investigation. They did a lot of things. And I think one of the things, like, I just didn't understand the process of what was going on. I knew something was wrong, but I really didn't know why a lot of things were being done to kind of investigate. And then when that was done, then, after everything that was done, with the blood test and everything, I would then called in a few months later

and I was told I have what's called premature ovarian failure. And then POF, a failure. I mean, I'm so pleased it's changed to premature ovarian insufficiency because there's no failure in what's happened. But it sounds like a really, really negative thing, doesn't it?

Yeah. And did you get any symptoms at that time? For me, there was a lot of symptoms now, obviously, like knowing more that I experienced, I actually not. know they were related to menopause. I just, I didn't even know what menopause was to think I'll be going to menopause at such a young age. So I think for me, at that moment when I was like, no, some of the symptoms that I did actually disclose to my GP was, of course, the absent period

for such a long time. I was having a lot of perfect pain, abdominal pain, headaches. Those are some of the things I was experiencing at a time. And then when I learned more, I knew there were more symptoms than like hot flashes. I used to get off flashes, nice sweats, a brain frog. I remember when I was younger, they'll tell me, and he said, what's wrong? You're always so forgetful. You're always so forgetful. And I used to think, oh, it's okay. And I was, you know, so memory problems, lack of concentration, really bad. Although I had, like, my own personal child who trauma was going through. Also, lack of constration was really bad for me. And then over the years, vagina dryness, when I became sexually active,

vagina dryness was something I noticed, like painful sex. And I didn't really know that that was also associated with menopause on tears. I didn't learn more about how P.O.I actually affects your lifestyle, what PY is and why is important for me to take my medication and things like that. And fatigue, having difficulty sleeping and dizziness. One of the things I've learned,

especially when I looked at the list of symptoms, dizziness and fainting. And I then, I was like, oh my God, I used to fend a lot when I was younger and I would wake up in the hospital with drips or me. Really? Yeah. And you never think that that was linked to it. So there was a lot of symptoms I was experiencing when I was younger, but I never really, like, it was young. So it's impossible for me to think, okay, this is related to menopause or is related to something.

And did anyone give you HRT or how did they help you? Yes. As soon as I was diagnosed with premature ovary, I'm going to say, it's a few. From a child of an insufficiency, what they told me is that you can have kids. And essentially, that was it, nothing really more about it. I didn't really know what POI really meant. And they told me I have to go on HRT. Again, I still really understand what HRR2 was.

And then they gave me a charity. I initially started with the Avon counting patch. So that's what I started with when I was diagnosed with POI. Okay. And has that big change? it at all? Yes, it has. And when I initially started the patch, there was a lot that was going on on my body. I just didn't understand, like, tender breasts. My breasts were like swollen, so tender. I was still getting really bad migraines, a lot of them. And I was just feeling out of sort.

I was just like, what's going on with me? I just didn't understand what was going on. And of course, that was the first time in years I actually got periods. And I used to think they were called periods. I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting my period. That means I'm okay. That means everything is okay. That means. I'm actually normal. I didn't know that it was just withdraw, bleeding. So I had to lend that along the way. So I remember I got so excited.

And I was like, yeah, I'm getting periods. And eventually I went back and I had to then change that. I was like, I just don't feel, I feel out of sort. I just don't feel right being on this. Maybe it's the dose. And also because it was a patched then as well, it was just very inconvenient for me as well. So they then changed that to the Femmer Stone counting one by five. and I was on that for like the last few years.

And then back in, was it, 2019, I noticed that a lot of my symptoms were coming back. So, and at this time, I didn't know who to go to and because I had not had a follow-up for a long time. So that's kind of the reason why I said I was just really alone for a long time. There was no one there for me to go to and talk to when I felt like I was going to something or someone to talk to to find out more information. So I have to do a lot of my own research. I really had to kind of become my own healthcare provider.

That's really hard. Yeah, it was hard. Where I had to do a lot of the research, that's how I kind of learned about more about POI, how POA affects me, you know, why it's important to take my A charity, what is A charity, what is it important? And then that's why I started learning about, you know,

why it's teaching is important for the development. So I really, when I started learning that, I think that I then opened my, my mind, okay, this is why it's important for me to do this, take my medicine, do this, and that. So that knowledge really helped me along the way. Not having it in the beginning was really hard

because I really did not acknowledge my condition for a long time. And I take partly because I didn't understand it. And the part that really got to me was initially when they told me I was diagnosed, you can't have kids. And that just kind of went around my head for such a long. You can't have kids. Nothing else.

Like nothing is you just can't have kids. And it was hard. And being black, being Nigerian, you know, from the African community, most African community, you know, it's hard when you think you can have kids. And, you know, you can't have your own children. And it was really hard at that time. So it was hard. And I don't know where I got the strength from to actually go to everything that I went to. But it's hard.

And it makes a difference when you truly understand what you're going to. and how much it affects you so that you can know how to take care of yourself and what's important. And so you can begin to heal and find ways to kind of heal and take care of yourself and acknowledge what you're going to choose self-per-sense. It takes time, but that's kind of the joining I have been on all this years just to get to where I am today. And sometimes it is to stay hard, and I acknowledge that, and I just find ways to kind of make me feel better. And it's very difficult because, you know, for a lot of women across the world who are men, or at whatever age, it can be very isolating, very scary. There's this whole unknown and these symptoms you don't know whether they're related to your hormones or not.

And then when you're young, I think the hardest thing, as you've quite rightly said, is actually knowing who to talk to. Yeah. You know, when you have, when any of us have a problem, you go to your friends who tend to be your age. And not many people who are young know about POI, POS, early menopause. Menopause, doesn't matter what you call it. it's still, you know, I don't know. And then I think, you know, it's a real failing actually in our medical system,

not just in the UK, but across the world that we don't have enough provision. You know, we know that one in 100 women under the age of 40, one in 1,000 under the age of 30 have an early manopause. Now, that's more common than a lot of conditions. Yet we have dedicated clinics. You know, if you think of cancer, for example, leukemia. Now, leukemia doesn't affect 1 in 1,000 women at the age of 30. but obviously it is life threatening. Don't get me wrong. I'm not undermining any.

There's a lot of information. There's a lot of resources. There's nurses. There's somebody to talk to. Now, you know, obviously there's all these symptoms, but as I'm sure you know, also there's these health risks of not having hormones. Yeah. And that's what's really important actually that people think when they're young, they have to really, unless there's a big reason, they have to have hormones to reduce their risk of future conditions and illness. and diseases such as heart disease, osteopuses, diabetes. And so it's really important that you have someone saying to you, actually, this could happen. And he said, this might happen. This is quite understandable that you feel like this.

And it's really, really hard. And when you're not feeling yourself because you haven't got the right hormones, it's a double whammy, isn't it? It is. It definitely is. Just like I said in school, like it was so hard for me to focus in school. And I used to think because I was stupid or I was dumb. I wasn't capable of way enough.

There was a lot of things, but to think that it's because of potentially those hormones that your body is not producing, like not producing at all at such a young age, to think that, I wouldn't even think that at a young age, I'll be going through menopause, you know, and there's a lot of shame behind it as well, too,

a lot of, you know, looking at yourself that, why me, why is this happening to me? You know, there was a lot of that question. Why is this happening to my, have I because? Is there someone, there was a lot of that that was, going through my mind then and I had a lot of questions and I was just a shame of myself to actually talk about.

I was a shame to talk about it and people around me. I didn't even talk about it to them. I kind of just buried it at the back of my mind and I didn't talk about it. And I noticed that a lot of it were kind of just coming out in other ways of my life and I was wondering what is going on with me. And it's because of these emotions that you don't understand because they are related to it. So it's hard to be going through menopause at a young age, especially when you don't understand. it. You don't have no one to talk to about it. You don't have no one to go to it about it. You don't have anybody around you. You can actually, although you have friends that you can talk to, but they don't truly understand what you're going through. They can be there for you,

but having someone to truly understand what you're going through that relates, just someone to relate, it makes a difference to have that. So it's hard. Definitely. It's not an easy road. Absolutely not. And I think what you've just talking about is so inspirational. Honestly, it's incredible. And it's, so tell us a been about, you know, you've gone from really struggling, being completely on your own, and now you've opened this Instagram, and I'm sure I don't even need to guess that there's loads of people that have approached you and probably thanked you. And, you know, that must be an incredible feeling to help other women, because I know my job, I'm exhausted, but the only

way I can keep going is because I know I'm helping women. And it's a great feeling, isn't it, that you help people that you don't even know, actually. Yes, it is. I think one of the thing for me is When I initially started a page, I didn't have any expectation. I think for me too, I wanted to also meet other people as well. I wanted to actually be able to connect with other women going to the same thing that we can actually talk. And also to share my own experience. That was important. I was like, I want to share my experience for my own perspective, what I've been through and what I have learned as well too.

So when I created the page, I met so many people. I have a lot of them now that, you know, would communicate outside of Instagram as well too. and I have people contacting me that are not ready to share their story. They're like, oh my God, you know, sharing your story has been really helped. And I was like, that's what it's all about. I feel like that representation is very important. And when you feel ready, when you feel a calling to you, that's when you go for it. So it's been really great.

And I'm so happy that, you know, my story is able to help other people out there and they're able to relate to it. And they feel like at least it's just having this community or having someone sharing that it makes you feel less alone. It's great to have that because I wish I had that. I wish I had that feeling when I was going through it at my younger age. And having that now, I know it's great for me. Because sometimes when I'm talking to my family member

and I'm talking about people I have met and how we just talk and everything, she's like, oh, I'm so happy for you because I've never seen you this life up in a long time. I was like, yeah, it's amazing just having people. you can just go to, you know, we just chat about everything. We talk about everything. We talk about symptoms. You talk about what being children. You're like, oh, my God, yes, I went to that as well.

Oh, you did that. Ah, so I feel less of a freak. So it's not just me. You know, it makes a huge difference. It does definitely makes a huge difference. And it's been really great. And I'm so proud of myself. And I'll continue to do what I can do to just raise that awareness using my own experience.

Yeah. It's amazing. It's absolutely incredible. And as you probably know, I founded the Menopals charity. Yes. And it's a very new charity, but it's a much needed charity in my mind. I've been almost trying not to do it for a couple of years because I knew it would add to my workload and I don't have much fair time. But I also really want to, like I said, at beginning, reach as many women as possible.

And I can reach so many through my website. I can reach so many more through my free app balance. But the charity, I feel we can do so much more. and it can be a real community, real voice for women. It's not what I want as a charity. It's what women want for the charity. And I think that's really important. So we've only launched it recently.

And as you know, we've actually given free menopause education to every GP practice in the UK and Southern Ireland. And we've had over 9,000 healthcare professionals do that. So I think that's amazing. And we've got some patients who are actresses, actually. So they're not real patients, but they're taking their patients. And actually, one of them is someone who's got people. P.O. We wrote a script for her and she was young and didn't have PY actually, but she didn't know

anything about this. And she came, sat here in my room and pretended. And we all felt so emotional listening to her story. And it was just a story. It wasn't her story. It was a story we'd written. And she became very emotional as well, actually, because she didn't know people could even have medicals when they were young. So we've got this education program. That's great. But the next thing we really want to do is set up a helpline. So we're really trying to save, get money, from anyone that we can. So if any of you listening, I've got any spare money, please donate through the menopause charity.org website

because I feel that a help line would be amazing, don't you? Yes, I do. That would be so amazing. Like the work that you guys are doing already, it's so amazing. I see what you do to your page is just, it's amazing. Just your website alone is full of so many resources. and when I'm in my POI groups and things, I always share that with people go there with this, with that,

to just find out. It's so amazing because I know there is a lot of resources out there. For me, when I was doing my research, I remember the first time I Google HRT on Google and it was like breast cancer, breast cancer. I got so scared. I was like, oh my God, on top of what I'm going to, you're telling me I'm going to have breast cancer.

And this time I ran, I had no one to actually go to confine. Like, is this, you know what I mean? So I kind of had to then go deep in to find resources that kind of then justifies and give more clarification. And then that eased my mind a little bit more. So just your sight to learn is amazing. And I feel like that helpline would be so great because it's such a great resource to direct people who need to talk to somebody that they can't get support outside, maybe with a GP or their doctor. That would be so amazing.

Well, it's really what I want. And I think there's enough of us that would volunteer even an hour or two a week. to just do that. And I want it so that women can be advocates, really, and just say, no, it is like you're saying, yes, it's fine to feel like that. But actually, no, you should go and ask your doctor for this or if that's not working. You know, most women, especially with POI, if they're having symptoms, it's often because their dose or type of HRT isn't right for them.

Yeah. And they need to go back. And, you know, I feel really embarrassed because, you know what, I was taught when I was at medical school, I was taught if a young person came to see me who didn't have their periods, do you know what we were taught? make sure they're not pregnant and then you can reassure them. That was all. Wow. Is that awful?

Wow. Yeah, I do remember when my thing was being doing, they told me, are you sure you're not pregnant? I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not pregnant. But I guess that was like the standard thing they had to do to make sure I'm like, yeah, okay. And I think one of the other things you just said, which is amazing, is that even within that your community as well,

just having someone and also like patients as well, too, that's also going through the same thing that they can call. Maybe they need to talk to just someone. and that's also going through the same they can feel I can just relate to. You can just, hello, how are you, how can you, how can I? If they need to just cry, talk and bit of a, just to have that, it would be amazing. Yeah, it's needed. So much needed.

Well, I totally realized that. But I didn't realize it, actually, before I started. And my menopause doctor website, I started, and I was just going to have, I think, eight pages. It's going to be really small, and it was just going to have a few articles on it. And then I started writing it at the time that I was experiencing menoples or symptoms. I didn't realize. I thought I was working too hard.

And then the more I wrote, and then I started to play with Instagram, and then people contacted me and these awful stories about how people felt so alone. And I thought, gosh, I'm going to have to put more. I'm going to have to write more content. And then when I started telling my friends that I was menopausal, I was peri menopausal because my periods were changing. Yeah. A lot of them were really shocked and saying, gosh, but you're quite young. And I was so, well, no, I'm 45 at the time. I was 45.

And I said, that's the average age to put perimenopause. And even then I could see them looking about, oh, you're not. going to start HRT, are you? I said, of course I am. If I can get hold of it, I couldn't get it from my own GP. I had to try and get it somewhere else. But I said, of course, I want to be healthy. I want to look after myself. Oh, well, are you sure? Do you really know enough about HLT? And I thought, goodness. And it made me think, though, Anita, I was thinking, I'm 45. If I was 25 or 15 or 35, like, who an earth would take me seriously? It would be really difficult. And I think that's what's, and you shouldn't have to prove yourself. You shouldn't have to try and

testify or try and have anything validated, that you should just be a really easy path that you get given information every step of the way and it's tailor made for you because we're all different. I think that's what's really important. Yeah, I love what you said there definitely for each person because we're all different and our body reacts to things differently. But it's important for us to be informed on how important it is as well, the risk or whatever. how informed it is that it's important for us to also take a charity for ourselves because like I said, having learned what I've learned, I'm happy that I initially said, because there were sometimes I have questioned like, did I make the best decision

in going on a charity? Because then I didn't know much. I felt like it was just given to me. I had no option to reject it or to say yes or no. But I'm happy that I was given and I took it because what I've learned so far, I just cannot imagine my life without having been on a charity all these years. who knows what could have happened. And, you know, I was also diagnosed with osteopenia along the way too because of my

bones were teen. So having taken HR and what I do in terms of my lifestyle, I've actually improved that for me as well too. So I'm just really grateful that, you know, it was initially given to me from the beginning, even though I really didn't understand it. But it has made a difference for me personally. Yeah, which is great. Really good.

And you've got your whole life ahead of you. And just listening to your story today, I think it's just been brilliant. So I'm really, really grateful for you sharing and the work that you're doing because, you know, every little helps, doesn't it? And I think we all working together for make a bigger noise and trying to do it on our own. So it's just fantastic. So we will put a link to your Instagram page and your YouTube channel on the notes to go with this podcast. But just before we finish, how do you give three tips to women who might be listening to this and have to. P.OI or they might have children or friends with P.O.I. What are the three things that you think

would really help them at the start of their journey? At the start of the journey, I think for me, three things. I'm going to always use my experience. And I think number one is when you're going to that start of the journey of being diagnosed, of going to the process and everything, if you can have a support system just along that way with you, someone that can go for appointments that you might necessarily not be able to prunt questions, about me able to prod questions and be able to ask them on behalf or someone you can rely on emotion, or someone that can just be there for you.

Where you're going to this journey, it's really important because I wish I had that, especially when I was diagnosed initially, it was just me there, and I know how triggering was for me. There was so many talk that was going through my head at that moment. So having that support there, it's really important. And number two, if you have someone, like if you're the one or somebody who's going through it

and you don't know how to support them. The best way is just to let them know, I'm here for you. Whatever you need, I'm here for you. Just let me know what you need because sometimes we say something that we think that it's helpful, but in a way it's not really. So just letting them know, I'm here for you. Wherever you need, I'm here for you, let me know what you need.

They'll come to you and let you know what they want you to do for them. Maybe it's go with them to an appointment, help them do research or whatever it is. Just let them know, I'm here for you. Let me know what you need. me and I'll be there for you however way you can. And number three, I think it has to do with your mental health. That was a big one for me. Your mental health is so important and sometimes you're going to feel like you're going crazy, but you're not going crazy. It's okay. Your feelings are valid and it just have to find ways to kind of express yourself. It is hard, but that they say one day

at a time, you know, each little steps count. And just advocate for yourself as well. It's important. That's what I'm learning to do now. I'm learning to advocate for myself in terms of treatment, what I need to do and everything, advocating for yourself and just knowing the importance of your treatments and what you need to take care of yourself and understand what you're truly going through. Like now there's a lot of resources out there like Dr. Louis.

There's a lot of resources out there. If you feel like you're not getting the information from the doctor or your nirgyno, look for the resources out there to better educate yourself so you understand what you're going to because at the end of the day it is your body. Absolutely. I think that's just fantastic advice and it's trying to be your own advocate but trying to reach out to others as well. And if women can support others then we're going to be a stronger place and at the end of the day we want world domination by women, don't we? Yes. I'm finding your own just find the community that you belong to. I think community is great as well. I know I'm just adding when your community is great. Just finding you

that community you belong to finding someone, you can actually just be part of that community to interact and talk about and just it helps. It definitely helps. And for me, it helps me just as much as I use my experience to also help others. Brilliant. That's just great words, Anita. So thank you so much. It's been brilliant. I've really enjoyed it today. So thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me. For more information about the perimenopause and menopause, you can go to my website, to menopausedoctor.co.uk or you can download our free app called Balance available through the App Store and Google Play.