The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 113 - Mothers, daughters and hormone havoc with Lorraine Candy

Episode Date: August 24, 2021

Journalist, podcaster, and author Lorraine Candy, who is former Editor in Chief of Cosmopolitan, Elle, Sunday Times Style, and Former Parenting Columnist for the Sunday Times Magazine. She co-hosts the chart-topping weekly podcast, ‘Postcards from Midlife’, with fellow journalist Trish Halpin. During lockdown Lorraine, 53, wrote the highly successful book, ‘Mum, What’s Wrong With You? 101 Things Only Mothers of Teenage Girls Know’, a family memoir of hilarious personal anecdotes and guidance from experts on adolescent mental health and parenting as a perimenopausal woman. From teenage hormones to menopausal hormones, in this podcast episode Lorraine and Louise discuss the importance of educating women about the perimenopause and menopause, and revisit their experiences of battling the media to help bring the taboo topic to normality. Further in, Lorraine and Louise have an honest conversation about raising teenage girls in particular, and offer advice on how to keep your cool while keeping the channels of communication open. Lorraine’s book is heartily recommended by Louise, a mum of teenage girls herself, and it is available to buy now, published by 4th Estate.   You can find Lorraine Candy on social at: Instagram - @lorrainecandy Twitter - @lorrainecandy Facebook - @sundaytimesLorraine

Welcome to the Newsome Health Menopause podcast. I'm Dr Louise Newsome, a GP and menopause specialist, and I'm also the founder of the Menopause charity. In addition, I run the Newsome Health Menopause and Well-Being Clinic here in Stratford-upon-Avon. So today I have with me Lorraine Candy, who I've known for a couple of years now. And when I first met her, she actually didn't really seem to know much about. the menopause and HRT and now when I listen to her every week she knows nearly as much as me. So hi Lorraine. Thanks for joining you today. Hi. Hi Louise. I don't know whether we were introduced or I just stalked you or you stalked me on social media, but we sort of connected, didn't we? Probably a couple of years ago now. Yeah, I think it was when I was at the Sunday Times and I was editing style and I was trying very hard to get a piece in the newspaper about perimenopause and menopause because I really just started to do some research on it based on personal stuff,

things with people were saying to me, and my sense that it was something that was coming towards us that we were all going to have to talk about. And you seem to be the leading expert. And the only way I could get something in to the paper, because nobody was interested, was to do a spa review. It was a conundrum, there just wasn't anyone who wanted to read about this. And actually, when we did the spa, it was incredibly well read, incredibly well shared. And it was kind of the beginning of a journey really, but it's the only way which it felt palatable in a national newspaper. Now, of course, we know now, I mean, on Sunday, for example, I think there were about six pieces in the paper. And, you know, there are, as we know, lots of books,

yours included coming out this year. So it is really being talked about now, thank goodness. The information is getting out there for women. Yeah, it is. But it's really hard, actually, because I remember when I spoke to you and you were talking about doing a sort of spa experience and looking at places, there were very few that looked holistically, but also very few that were not giving these compounded bioadensical hormones that are not regulated, not licensed. And I'm also seemingly expensive, actually. So it is a real problem and actually trying to make people understand

that the menopause is not just something that frumpy women who are middle age are going to experience a few symptoms and then get on with it. It's a very different thing. So it's very hard selling that to the media. isn't it? I think it's hard for people to get their head around anything that is very specifically women. You can get your head around diabetes, but you can't get your head around a hormone deficiency because it affects women specifically. And it's quite, the narrative is so negative around it. And even women don't want to buy it. And I have to say, the most resistance I encountered on

newspapers was from other women editors. So, you know, it's just I don't want to be identified with that. I don't want to read about it. You know, and my job was on the stage. kind of modern part of the paper anyway. But I think, you know, it is changing. And, you know, the Davina McCall programme on Channel 4 was an amazing game changer. And really, it's medical information, isn't it, that we're getting out there? It's treatment that we're getting out there. Absolutely.

I think the problem is for so many years or decades, women have been given wrong information. Journalists have. But also, sadly, healthcare professionals have as well. And it's trying to match all that and educate and empower all those groups of people that's only going to make a big difference. But I do think some of the work I'm doing, and probably you're doing, actually, if we both had a pair of testicles in our pants and were men, we'd probably find it. We'd be listened to more.

And in fact, there was a great article yesterday in the business section of the Times written by James Timpson, who owns the most amazing company, Timpsons, who's everyone heard of. I actually spoke to him a couple of weeks ago to give him some information to write and angle the article in. and it had a really good response, actually, which was great. And it certainly helped him being a man writing in a perspective of an organisation that really looks after his workforce, which obviously Timpsons is very well known.

So it was great actually to read some of the comments and feedback from that article. Yes. And it goes more than just giving people a policy to reduce their hours and stay at home. It's actually about keeping women at work and improving the way. they feel that earns function, isn't it? I think it's also redressing that terrible, flawed, awful women's health initiative survey, which caused all the problem around and attitude towards hormone replacement therapy, which still, you know, I still encounter quite a lot.

When I talk to my own healthcare professionals, when I talk to people, there is still a sense that HRT is not right and it's dangerous. And, you know, as you know, I often get involved in many Twitter spats with journalists, one particular Times journalist only recently explaining that if you talk about fitness, health, lifestyle, anything for women in midlife, you must offer the chance to take HRT. That's the treatment. That's the preventative treatment. And there's an extreme resistance to that still, I think. But, you know, it is changing because of all the facts from the documentary. Yes, which is so good. So you do a weekly podcast, don't you? Which...

So you do together, don't you, with Trish? So just explain a bit more about that because that sort of springboarded you into a way that maybe you weren't planning on doing? Well, we started the podcast probably just over a year ago. We've done about 54 episodes. It's called Postcards from Midlife. I do it with Trish Halpin. She used to edit Mary Claire and I used to edit Sunday Times style. But between us, we've edited Mary Claire, Red, L, in style, cosmopolitan Sunday Times style.

So we've really edited the big glossy magazines of the last sort of 20, 30 years. Between us, the whole lot, apart from Vogue, actually. So we have a really strong midlife audience, a group of women who followed us through on that. And we thought that if we, as journalists, didn't know about midlife and the menopause and perimenopause and everything, then how the hell could normal women know about it? Because our job is to pick up the phone and find it out. And we have our ultimate access to many places. So we started it as a kind of lighthearted magazine program.

It's now weekly. And we've got quite a big community around it. I think we've had almost 2 million downloads of those episodes. We get some great guests. Elizabeth Hurley, Kate Galloway, you've been on, Catlin Moran, Bobby Brown. We talked to spirited women in midlife about their journey because medical and physical aside, it's a real transition. It's a huge change and a lot happens to women at this part of their life.

And I don't think Gen X is quite comfortable with the narrative around us, so we're changing it and we're talking about it. So we've been doing that. It's quite hard work a podcast. It is. A lot of research has to be done. We write scripts and, you know, we've sort of talked to guests beforehand, and we make sure that we have a couple of experts.

We quote for one section of the show as well, how to win at midlife. So we test a lot of stuff. And we apply the same rigour to it that we used to apply to editing magazines. And it seems to, you know, we've got a very lively Facebook, private Facebook group where women talk to each other about things. And it just begun the conversation in a relatable, it's not just me. Gosh, I thought it was only happening to me way, which is less frightening perhaps than being told about something you don't quite know about from a medical point.

And you're absolutely right. I mean, one of the privileges, as many privileges have been a doctor, but one of it is that people tell you all sorts of things that you weren't always expecting. And you get a real insight into people's lives, but it's very easy, isn't it, to look at people who externally you've thought of as successful because they're famous or they're wealthy or they've got a certain lifestyle. So actually on your podcast, you hear the vulnerability of some of these women, and you realise that the menopause doesn't just pick off certain people.

It affects all of us actually, but often in different ways. So I think having real lived-in experiences is so important. But you're absolutely right. It's no many feet through a podcast. I decided to set mine up. Just really to try and reach more women. And there's quite a lot of demands to make sure that it's done well and that you get the right feedback and trying to fit it in with full-time job and everything else.

It's quite hard. But also, I read yesterday, there's a million podcasts. So that's a lot of people to choose from, isn't it? I think we also felt that you could say with the menopause and perimenopause, oh, it's okay for her, she's wealthy, she can afford the best. It doesn't matter. You can get HRT on the NHS for free. So in actual fact, a lot of the women we talk to who are famous were taking the bio-identical ones.

And actually, after we'd spoken to them and given them all the information, changed onto the body identical HRT. So I like to think that we've helped. And then those voices can then take that message out further and say, this is what you're particularly with Meg Matthews as well, as you know. And I would say half the guests that we've talked to have changed from one to the other and are now taking the correct medication. Which is amazing. So it's having this effect. I'm trying a lot, obviously, with healthcare education and then trying also with women and also men to be educated. But the work

that you're doing is also really pivotal because actually it's also making people understand when they don't realize they need to understand, I think, which is quite hard sometimes. Yeah, it's hard, isn't it? If you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, well precisely. And so talking about that, so I've always really respected you for lots of ways, but mainly because you've got four children, and I feel I'm cheating because I only have three. But it's having children and a career is a real juggling act.

And actually I look back when I had two children under the age of two, thinking that was hard, but then suddenly having teenagers and then a baby as well is quite difficult. And actually I realize now how easy it is to have a baby and a toddler compared to a teenager where you're, you know, you're arguing or not arguing or trying not to argue about the number of piercings that they have or where they're going out or what you're going to do. And so I've obviously read your column for a long time, but then your book, Mum, What's Wrong With You, A 101 Things Only Mothers of Teenage Girls know, it's just been incredible. And I know it's been, it's not been out for very long, has it? But it's been very successful, which is so well deserved. But it must have taken you so long to write and pull everything together. Well, it's a funny one because it was sort of prompted by the panda. I mean, I've been trying to write it on an off for about five years, but it's quite hard to edit a weekly and have four children and a podcast and write a book. There's just there actually simply isn't enough hours in the day.

But I knew it was important to get it out there because so many women have been saying to me, you know, it's not a book for people facing extreme challenges of mental health with their adolescence. It's for ordinary, everyday lives where you sit down, usually at the bottom of the stairs and think, oh my God, what have I done? That was the worst bit of parenting or, oh my God, what's going to happen? I don't know. It used to make women feel that they were less alone because it's very specific, I think, parenting girls compared to boys. And I did it during the lockdowns. I got up incredibly early in the morning and just, you know, it's got a lot of expert interviews with experts, all of which had to be checked and rechecked from the columns. So there's lots of therapists,

psychotherapists, health, nutrition, period experts, you know, hormone experts. So it was really the fact checking that took time and then navigating what kind of personal bits I could in and what I couldn't and I wanted it to be funny as well. So, I mean, I think we did the actual physically writing and editing all in about a six months, eight month period. You know, you just, I think sometimes you just get on with things, don't you? When you're a mum, you just sort of do it because you need to get it done. Absolutely. I was someone sitting in my clinic today and I said to her this morning, actually, I think I'd be, I just wonder how much I'd achieve if I didn't have children. I would do so much more, but then actually I think I would do less because I'm cramming things in all the time.

And actually, although I work really hard, my priority is still my family, which I think a lot of people find it very hard to believe. But I think if I wasn't working, I would be micromanaging my children. I would be aware of every single second, everything that they were doing. And I would just have fallen out with them by now. There's no doubt about it. I mean, my children now are 18, 16 and 10. And I have a really good relationship. And it's very interesting, some of the book you're talking about, they can't be your friends. But it's It's about them choosing what they tell you, isn't it? Which is what you tease out well in the book.

And also, you know, every child's different. But I think there's so much, even the beginning, just you've got these great lists about the surprise signs you suddenly have a teenager. And I think it's just really reassuring that you know that it's not just you that have this whole thing. Because I remember a few years ago, one of my friends said about a number of piercings their daughter had and she had nose and she was getting her tongue prayers or something. And I was like, oh gosh, well, I've only just relented to my children having their singles done, you know, because they were just going to senior school or something. And now I look at the piercings that both my older children have.

Some of them they've done themselves. Some of them have done them have actually gone to the place to have them done. And I just think, actually, you choose your battles, don't you, sometimes. And that isn't a battle that I've ever really, you know. That's not your line in the sand. And also, I think it's their body. And this youth, Gen Z, is very different from. our youth. So how we view it as they view it in a very really different way. And they view

tattoos in a very different way. They view sexuality in a different way. So we can't overlay our own adult and our lived experience around it. And it's funny, I've given lots of talks with schools and, you know, for the book launch as well. And the piercings thing is a real trigger point for parents, particularly mums. And they seem to want to say that if I say no piercings, I mean no piercings and I tend to think it's an almost impossible to make that work and I think physically you just can't they're going to you know their peer group it's part of their tribal behavior and the holes will close up so you know my line in your mind is not telling me where you're going and not coming back on time you know you should always have boundaries with consequences but I just

think they're unenforceable with piercings and it's a really I asked a mom the other day to work out why she was so upset about the piercings and what it was. And when we talked it through, it was really about the baby, this lovely child's acting hardly in that way, and this delicate skin that she'd love so much as the baby and a little girl. And there was so much more going on than the piercings. And actually, that was what was better to explore and think about than saying if you have a piercing, that's it.

We're going to stop your allowance. Yeah, it's very interesting, isn't it? I mean, my middle daughter did her own fur piercing without telling me for ages. And I feel such a mug, I didn't even realise. And she then told me that it was magnetic. So when I tried to reach the back of the magnet, obviously she wouldn't let me because it had a great big back on it. And I was really, really, really, really cross. And I was cross because she'd lied to me, actually.

I wasn't cross about the piercing. And once you realise that, you know, it makes you realise that, you know, it makes you realise, And it is like this whole thing about boundaries. We're very, we work on trust. I mean, that's the way I live. Everyone who works with me knows I can't lie. So it's really important. So if the children ever lie, that's when I get crossed.

Not because of what they've done. I think sometimes maybe it's easier because I'm a doctor, obviously. Nothing shocks me. I've seen so much in so many over years, especially when I was working in A&E in hospitals. But I've always said to the children, if you ever get into trouble, I'll help you and then I'll judge you secondly. And that's actually really helped them and their friends sometimes get out of quite potentially difficult situations.

And it is really hard for them, isn't it, to learn? Because it's so much faster pace than I think than when we were teenagers and things are a lot more accessible for them. And they almost have to grow up a lot quicker, don't they? But they're still very vulnerable, aren't they? So it's finding that balance. Well, I think the thing that was most striking to me and I interviewed two neuroscientists for the book is that their brains from the age of 12 to 25 are being, and it's new science, it's only really being studied in the last couple of years,

are being taken apart and put back together again. The back of the brain is built first of the emotions bit, so that's why they feel emotions, it's stressed, so I get incredibly upset about things. And the logic reason bit doesn't get really put together till quite late in teenage. So in that sort of 12 to 17 year period, nothing makes sense to them. How can anything make sense in an adult, rational way,

when your brain is, all the wires are unplugged? and then how can you look at what your hormones are doing exactly at the same time? And also your whole body is changing. I think forming your identity is probably, and the therapist will say it is the single most important thing you can do and you do it between the ages of 12 and 20. So while all of that is going on, to expect them to be upset about you being upset about piercings

is quite a big ask, I think, or to expect them to tidy up their bedrooms or the things that are common to them. And the other thing I think that is happening at the moment is a much bigger understanding on the neurodiversity of our adolescents, that they are not in any way the same, that some of them are developing at a very different pace for others, and we tend to generalise.

And also, so therefore, what works with one child, certainly what works with my older daughter, does not work with my second daughter. It's a completely different way of interacting. And, you know, I didn't want to write a book that was, here are the things that you can do because it simply won't work. There's about a million things you can try, and some of them are really tiny, you know, and really effective.

but big changes. And the main theme is to keep some kind of connection so that if they are in trouble and it's interesting you say about talking about them afterwards, one of the things the kind of adolescent mental health experts always recommend is that when they come back and there's a terrible thing that's happened at a party or they've done something awful,

that's not the time to talk about what you feel about. A 24-hour period has to go through because building resilience and learning from things is really key for them and letting them feel bad things and get upset and get hurt and get sad is really, really good for them because they build that resilience and then you can talk it through and then have worked some of it through themselves in those 24 hours, I think, as well. It is really important, isn't it?

I've had some quite heated rounds with my middle daughter, who's quite flamboyant. And a couple of times I've just thought I'm going to let it go because whatever I say, it's just going to make me upset. So I might as well just let her shout and rant and tell me all these things, storm off to her room. and then actually most times she'll either text me or write me a really long, like to telling me how much she loves me. And the first time she did it, I thought it was just staggering actually because I was storing up all this resentment in my body,

but also thinking, what have I done wrong? Why have I brought up a daughter who's so cross and so angry? Exactly. And then because I'm busy with everything else, I still had to fire off 100 emails and make supper and whatever. So I didn't have time to concentrate too much. but then when this letter that came down the stairs, you know, absolutely gorgeous, knowing that I'm processing it herself. And that is really important, far better, isn't it, to be able to learn and process and work out.

And I also think as a mother, if she doesn't shout at me, then who else is she going to shout at? Yes. They've got to have some outlet, haven't they? Somebody who can be. Well, they call it latency and it's a process where up until the age of about 12 and they're adorable. and easy to deal with. And they can sort of handle the emotions, but as the brain starts to unravel and everything starts to happen,

they can't really handle the emotions. And one of the therapists said, thank God she can hand this awful pile of dreadful thoughts to you. Because she can't hand it to her peer group because they're like headless chickens running around anyway. And she can't give it to her teachers or her other people, she doesn't know quite as well. Who is the strongest woman in her life who can deal with this dreadful things

that are happening in her head? she gives it to you and that's the hard bit because she'll give it to you in this really angry, aggressive, horrible, she hates herself, she then hates you. And they're just giving it to you to deal with while their brains are trying to work it out. So you just, if you throw it back, it's really hard. Then they've got your stuff to deal with as well as their stuff. So it's really hard, but it can feel, you know, ungrateful and rude and I had the same feelings. Perhaps I've just brought up the most impolite girl in the whole world.

And no, it's just, she's just being like that because you can deal with it. Well, that's right. It is really hard at sea. And also last week, my daughter, FaceTime me, and she was in floods of tears. She hated school. She wanted to come home. And she was just exhausted at the end of terms. She's in a drama production later on that evening.

And I said, well, I'm coming to the school to watch you. I can't bring you home because you're in a show. And she was in floods of tears. And not just to hear her, but to see her as well is really awful. And then I had to carry on with my clinic. and there's only so much I can do. And then when I went to see her later, before the show, she came out to the car,

gave me a massive hug, she's all happy, completely different child. And then after the show, I was obviously congratulating. And she said, oh, mommy, I've just realized, the only time I get in touch with you

is when I feel really sad. The other times where I'm really happy and with my friends, I wouldn't even think about content to you. That must be really hard for you. Yeah, it's actually so easy. Well, it is tricky. But actually, it's fine because we know each other well,

and I adore her and it's lovely we have this relationship. But if I was menopausal as well with struggling with my own hormones, it would completely flaw me because I was a few years ago when I was perimenopausal before I started HRT, I had feelings of very low self-worth, no self-esteem, and I was more irritable and I had no sort of memory. So all these arguments didn't really make sense to me. And then I really felt very vulnerable.

And so I can see so much more when menopause or women have teenage children and they're not getting their own moment sorted out. It's really hard, isn't it, right? I mean, I don't know how. Yeah, you bring a bit of your own childhood into the room. And if you're trying to deal with all of that and your sense of identity is being completely, for many women, it's unraveling at that point as well. So all the hormones are all over the place. And, I mean, I had lost my grip on my temper.

I was very, very angry. The rage, the midlife rage was just overwhelming for me. And to be in that place while my eldest was in her rage place as well. I mean, I was so lucky to have all the experts I was talking to for the column in the paper to deal with that. And just to be able to say, I'm going to sort myself out and make myself happy and look after myself. Because if they see you looking after yourself, that's role modelling, really good behaviour for them. It's just saying, I can't deal with this at the moment. I'm afraid I'm just too cross and I just need to go and have time on my own or for them to see you eating well, sleeping well, not getting spiral of drama of it. It's really good. It sets the neural pathways for them. But I would never, I think we would have a terrible relationship now if I hadn't managed to sort the HRT out because I couldn't remember half of what was going on and I would lose words in the middle of arguments and that would make me very cross with myself. I'd be very frustrated that a woman who'd been

editing magazines and was really smart, couldn't remember words for things. You couldn't remember the word for cup or, you know, that point I couldn't remember which side of the road I was supposed to be driving on. And it was so infuriating. I think women need to get the support because it is the time it all coincides. You know, and also, like you, I had a seven-year-old at the same time or a five-six-year-old at the same time. So it was quite, you don't want younger children to witness this cataclysmic thing happening all the time. And you need to. the lifestyle changes around it and to take a step back and not take any of it personally because

that's the you know that's the yeah and that's really hard i mean i am i had a glimmer actually of what it could be like on saturday because i'd gone to take my youngest daughter to see corolla at the cinema and it's quite a long film it's longer than i anticipated and i had to get back because my oldest daughter was playing in a concert and it was being live streamed so i literally had two minutes spare and my husband hadn't quite set up the iPad with the television so I got better sound quality and I just ranted and I swore and I was so cross and everything else and it wasn't until we were watching I realized that I forgot to change my patch last week my HLT patch because my husband's why are you so cross it will be all be sorted it will be fine but I was just irrationally cross

about something that I was in control of I could have just said to him calmly can you just switch the television on and hook it on because Jessica's concert is about to start. And I, as I sat down, I realised my knees were a bit sore and I quite often get joint pain if I have low estrogen levels. And I thought, oh, no, I forgot to change my patch two days a day. And I thought, gosh, this is what I would be like every day. My family would have left me. It's horrid. And some women are. Some women are still in, you know, when I read the messages on our Facebook group, it flaws me to hear women who are desperately, desperately sad. They're in a lot of joint pain. They can't remember anything. Women who've given up their job because they don't want to,

they can't do it anymore. And it just, you know, when there's a very easy available cure or certain, you know, there should be so much more guidance on everything. It makes me feel very sad. Oh, don't. I, what I could weave every day with the stories. Because it's all about us just getting our own hormones back. I'm not saying that we should be prescribing a drug or tranquilizer or something with side effects. It is literally just our own hormones. And, And when we don't have that choice of being able to have them, it's really difficult. And, you know, I couldn't get HRT from my GP. And so if I didn't have the knowledge or know the right person to go and get HRT,

I don't know what would have happened. I know I wouldn't be working as a doctor. And I know my family wouldn't be with me. I'm sure. Well, I mean, you know, a lot of women have divorced or stepped out of the family home or have just been, it's a kind of grief in a way because they lose a large chunk of their life. I think the other thing that I was thinking the other day, so when our eldest left home, she left home last October, and I was grief-stricken.

It was really sad to, you know, her rooms completely empty. None of her things were there. And I thought, you've got to be mentally quite stable to deal with that. Otherwise, it will send you, like grief, quite mad. And if you're not in the right place because of your menopause or perimenopause, I should imagine that that would be extraordinarily difficult, particularly if that's the last child leaving home or you're a lot. only child leaving home. It's just, you know, it makes me really wonder how women who aren't getting

the support are dealing with that empty nest element as well, because you're on your own and your identity has changed. And it is really hard and often they will blame the empty nest syndrome for their symptoms, especially if they're not getting any hot flushes or sweats. And, you know, it's a great opportunity also, isn't it, for teenagers to understand what might be going on with their parents or their aunties or female relative or even someone who ordered them at work. or their teachers. Yeah. And actually, it should be normalized.

You know, if you were having a headache at work, you would talk about it, wouldn't you? And it should be the same thing. But we should, well, quite a few friends of my older children, they have picked up the menopause either in their friends' mothers or stepmothers, actually. And then I've had texts from some of these people afterwards saying, oh, my goodness, thanks so much.

Because now I've gone to the doctor and I feel different. And Sophie picked it up, you know, and I think, oh, that's great, isn't it? Well, I think that's the way we've changed society, isn't it? And I think Jen said my teenagers, they're very activists, they're very clever, they're very smart, they're very feminist, they really want equality for everybody. And I think that they will make it part of society. I think the other thing I discovered as I looked at my own hormones, and it made me think about what my girls were going through from a hormonal point of view. And we don't really understand the menstrual cycle or talk about it. And what they've been taught at school was so basic.

So, you know, there's quite a lot of science and statistics around girls not being anywhere near as effective during exams the week before their period. So there's a lot of stuff that we just don't talk about as women. And it would be good if we knew it in advance. And I kind of think that my teenagers, as yours will, when they get to sort of 35, 36, they'll start thinking, how do I need to change my life? You know, do I need to worry about osteoporosis? Am I at risk from any kind of heart? How will I need to change my life in the next 10 years to be ready for what's coming towards me? because at least they'll know about it.

And, you know, for me and for Trish, we were just, we thought we were going mad. I thought I must have early onset Alzheimer's. This is what this is. And Trish went to see a therapist. She went on the antidepressant. I mean, it really was, we were in such an odd place and just we're bright journalists, you know. Which is very scary. I mean, one of my children actually does use some estrogen gel just before her periods

because she gets a bit of a dip in her mood and it's been transformational. And, you know, if I wasn't doing so much work in the menopause, I would certainly be doing more with PMS because it's exactly the same etiology. You know, estrogen levels dip just before periods. And one of the treatments is to just have some gel or some estrogen to just top it up. And it's a lot more natural than taking the contraceptive pill, for example, because it's safer, has no risk. So, you know, I sometimes think, can you imagine what the world would be like

if every woman who was missing their hormones had those hormones back? It would be quite a difference place. Well, it would be quite frightening for the Patriot. okay, I was just like. So we can try it, see. Quite annoying for them. So on that note, I think it's a great note to sort of round up, but I think it's been fantastic having you today.

Just before we end, I'd really like you to share three tips, actually, for people who have been listening who may have teenage girls or have friends who've got teenage girls, obviously tip number one would be to buy the book, which you can get from Good Bookstores and Amazon, but so I'll take that one from you. So if you could say three things that would make it easy because some of my friends have their relationships almost really broken down

and they've almost given up. They've resigned to the fact that they've got this person in their house who they just is in their bedroom and they can't be bothered with them, which I think is really sad. But three things that might just really help that weren't too difficult. Well, these are things that come from people working in the field with adolescents face-to-face on the front line. So the first thing is about connection.

Even if you feel it has gone and you have lost it, you can still get it back. Fiona Pinaar told me this and she works for a crisis charity for young people. Very small things will bring it back. Notes under the door. You take a cup of tea and even if you get a foul tirade back at you, just being there, showing you are there is enough. It is keeping the connection. And if you have preteens, try and keep those little rituals.

Eat together once a week without your phones. really, really important. It was the overwhelming piece of advice I got, eat together without your phones once a week. Even if no one speaks, gradually people will speak and it will come back, bring that back in to the room. And also I think the main thing is taking care of yourself, but don't catastrophize and don't panic because every day is a new day. So if you had the worst day yesterday, you can have a much better day tomorrow. And it's not really about the rupture, the horribleness of what's gone on. It's about the repair and how you repair it.

saying sorry when you need to say sorry, truly, truly listening when they tell you something, not stepping in and trying to fix it or offer your point of view, just let them talk. Because that's what they're doing. They're processing it in their brain by saying it out loud to you. And I think that kind of stepping back, calming down and being curious. And it's what Philippa Perry says, it's feel with, don't deal with. So you're not sorting or fixing it. You're just feeling, you're just being in the room.

you're trying to eat with them, always side by side, never face to face. So it's really tiny things, actually, that make a lot of difference. And you might have lost the connection for a bit, but you can gradually, and it might take a while, build it back, but don't lose hope. Brilliant advice. Thank you. So important. And lots to learn. And obviously, for any of you that haven't seen the book, it's definitely worth a read and a share with as many people as possible. So thanks again, Lorraine. It's been great for your time today. Thanks, Louise. For more information about the perimenopause and menopause,

you can go to my website, menopausedoctor.com.uk, or you can download our free app called Balance, available through the App Store and Google Play.