The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 18 - Hayley and Jay: a 30-year battle for the right diagnosis

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

In what Dr Louise Newson calls ‘the most impactful podcast I've ever recorded’, this powerful episode shares the extraordinary story of Hayley and her son, Jay.Hayley spent nearly 30 years in and out of psychiatric hospitals. She was diagnosed with postnatal psychosis, premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD), depression and treatment-resistant mental illness. She was prescribed antipsychotics, antidepressants and even received electroconvulsive therapy. At one point, she was told she might have dementia. After years of watching his mum, Hayley, struggle with severe mental illness, hospital stays, and treatments that never truly helped, her son Jay came across an episode of the Dr Louise Newson discussing the impact of hormones on mental health. For the first time, things started to make sense.It led him to question whether hormones could have been the missing piece all along. With persistence and care, he pushed for Hayley to be given HRT, and the results were life changing. Together, Jay and Hayley share their emotional story of misdiagnosis, misunderstanding, and the powerful difference hormone treatment made after decades of suffering.This episode is not just a story: it's a call to action. It highlights the often-ignored link between hormones and mental health, the systemic failures in women's healthcare, and the critical need for change.Please listen, reflect and share. Because not everyone has a son like Jay.We’re delighted to have been nominated in the Listeners’ Choice category for the British Podcast Awards. There’s still time to vote - click here  Email [e-mail] with suggestions for new guests!     Disclaimer:Please note: This episode contains discussions around suicide, self-harm, and severe mental health struggles, which some listeners may find distressing. If you or someone you know is struggling, please know that help is available.In the UK, you can contact Samaritans 24/7 at 116 123 or visit samaritans.org. If you're outside the UK, please reach out to a local crisis support service or emergency medical help. The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Dr Louise Newson or the Newson Health Group.       LET'S CONNECT   Website: Dr Louise Newson   Instagram: The Dr Louise Newson Podcast (@drlouisenewsonpodcast) •Instagram photos and videos  LinkedIn: Louise Newson | LinkedIn   YouTube: Dr Louise Newson - YouTube  

This is the most impactful podcast I've done. I want you to listen to it, but I also want you to share it with as many people as possible. I interviewed Jay and Haley. So J is Haley's son. Haley has been in and out of psychiatric hospitals for 27 years. She's had postnatal psychosis. She's had PMDD premenstruoric disorder. She's had awful depression, treatment-resistant depression.

She's had various antidepressants, numerous antipsychotics. She's had ECT electroconvulsive therapy. She's also been told she might have dementia and she's taken to alcohol for many, many years. But because she was also menopausal, I managed to persuade the psychiatrist to prescribe some hormones for her and you will see and hear the difference. We need to get this story out more

and I'm really grateful that they came today. But I want you to not just listen to it, but reflect on it. And think about the injustice of women who aren't so lucky as Haley because they don't have a son like Jay. Enjoy it. Haley, Jay, both of you. I've not done a double podcast before. Like, I feel like you're almost interviewing me, but it's great.

I am really excited about this podcast. I don't want to put pressure on you, but I've been thinking about this for a long time. time and the timing feels right and like there's there's quite a few patients that are really memorable but I am never ever going to forget both of you and I'm never going to forget that email that I got from you so I'm just really grateful that you're here to share your experience because well lots of reasons but the big thing that's going to change health of women going forward is women helping women and women talking and men talking and others talking.

It's not about me. It's not about what I think. It's not about what I've read. It's about real people. And I went into medicine to help people, not patients, but people. And I'm very privileged that I can do that in my job. But it's still somehow not getting through. Hormones are just thought of something for hot flashes,

something that might help a little bit. but I often say to people that the work I do is transformational and they look at me like I'm a bit weird but you have been transformed and I just want others to hear about it so Jay tell me about the email that you sent me it was the Instagram message first wasn't it but that's right yeah so we

I'd heard from a family friend she said I've been listening to Louisa's podcast and give it a listen. So at that point, my mum was sort of three months, three, four months into her hospital admission. And I gave the podcast a listen and everything just really resonated. And it all made sense. I sent the message on Instagram and you replied, that was bank holiday, May bank holiday. And you replied straight away.

We followed it up with an email to just explain my mum's story as quickly. as I could. And then we jumped on the, jumped on a call and started working straight away to get my mum the hormones that she needed. Yeah. So when you spooked me, you told me about your mum and obviously, Haley, you were in a hospital, but it was a psychiatric hospital. Yeah, yeah. But you'd not just been in a psychiatric hospital for three months, had you? No, no. I've been, in them since 1995 That's a long time, isn't it?

Because when you were growing up you fit well, you're working, you Yeah, yeah Quite a sparkle in your eyes And like those, yeah A bit too overconfident at times I would say But yeah, it was after

Well, the first depression and a bit of a psychosis was when I was 17, but I had had a termination when I was in my late 16. Right. So whether again, that was... Yeah, yeah. And then you've got three children now. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

And when you're pregnant, did you feel okay mentally? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did, yeah. But then after having the babies, you moved dropped, didn't it? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, it did. And with my first one, Christian, it wasn't as bad. Lewis, sorry, it wasn't as bad.

But when he was maybe eight months, I felt low and depressed. After Christian in 95, he was born in May. And at October Halloween that year, I decided people were out to kill me and just horrendous thoughts. And I tried to run up the road. in my underwear to escape the house and just really totally lost it. So were you sectioned then? I wasn't sectioned. I went into a Sheffield hospital on the psychiatric ward,

but I was in there for two and a half weeks. Then I was let back out, but it's the first time I was put on antipsychotics. Right. Do you remember being put on the antipsychotics? Not really, because a lot of the time when I'm in hospital, until I'm starting to, to feel better. It's all a kind of fuzzy blur. It's not, I don't remember all of it that well. But, and then of course after Jay in 2000, he was only two months and it all happened and flared up again. And then I was in hospital for two and a half months on a different ward. But they were trying to get me into the Nottingham mother and baby unit, but there wasn't any room. So again, I was kind of separated from him. And family and friends helped out.

Did anyone talk about hormones then? Never, never ever mentioned. That time I did have ECT again for the first time. So that's electroconvulsive therapy. Do you remember having that or them talking about it? Yeah, because I can remember them saying they didn't do it at the unit I was in, which was NetherEd Sheffield. They did it at the Northern General Hospital. So I can remember going in the taxi with the nurse to have it done. And it did work really quickly. I thought, oh, brilliant, I'm better again.

But looking back, I wasn't properly better, if you know what I mean. I think I was fighting to get off the ward. So displaying it that I was, yeah, I'm fine. I can kind of go home now. But I'd been, on that admission, I'd been very, very high and then kind of slumped very low. And I fed all three, and with Jay, I was still lactating on the ward and everything. I think my hormones were all over. Yeah.

But again, nothing was ever picked up on or suggested. Or they just called it post-pupor. psychosis or postpartum. And then you had your periods after they came back, but you always felt something wasn't right before your periods, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. How does that affect you? Just very angry and panicky and panic attacks.

And, I mean, on one occasion, and I hate that, Jay wasn't aware of that. I don't think he was even born, but I threw a wine bottle through a window in the kitchen. Did you? In like just a rage. I don't think Christian can remember that, but Lewis can remember that. That's hard, isn't it? When a period came, I think, oh, thank God for that. And I said that to Baz, my ex-husband last night, probably because of that, you know.

When you wake up the next morning and relive, if you've kicked off and caused a scene. and so I think years ago if I'd been given things I might have calmed down and not had like a volatile temper. But when you went, because you've seen so many psychiatrists, haven't you? Oh gosh, yeah, yeah. Did anyone talk to you about your periods or how? Never ever. Does that surprise you what you know now?

Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But as Jay was saying, when he this time tried to get help, it took him a while for them to even listen to him and kind of say, well, fair enough, we'll give it a try. Yeah, yeah. And that was the thing. I mean, we'd been told at that point, some 30 years later, that you were treatment resistant to antipsychotics, antidepressants, which that was the first time from a psychiatrist. You know, they admitted that.

So we tried the ECT on the basis It had worked years ago But you had 12 sessions of that And you know It failed to do anything So at that point I was like What else? What else?

Because you were put on clausapine Which you know they said If this Closapine left me just very Not in the real world Yeah Just I was on You said hey Liz's world

Didn't you because I was so It was it You were just numb to everything You know you don't remember any time I mean, since being on the HRT, my mum and dad died both within the last five years. I didn't attend either of the funerals because I couldn't, which I'll regret for the rest of my life, but there's nothing I can do about it. The HRT, I've actually cried, which I've not done for years.

So, and it's just amazing to think, because before I cried at the drop of a heart, you know, if something was sad, I'd be the first one to cry, but for years I've just been so cold and flat. Yeah, and that's very interesting because a lot of people say that when they're on medications or antidepressants or antipsychotics that they feel numb. So they don't experience sadness, but they don't experience joy. But actually sometimes it's not a bad thing to feel sad and to be upset because then when you feel happy, it's even better. but to be this sort of flat lining. But for you today, like, I mean, I feel really bad asking you these questions, but I just want people to try and understand because you've been affected.

You've been in and out of psychiatric hospitals. You've seen countless psychiatrists. Your life's obviously been affected. But for you, you've not really grown up with your mum being at home, have you? No, it hasn't been, yeah, my mum's been absent a lot of the years and whilst, you know, when you have been well and at all times you've, you know, we know you've loved us and we've,

all three of me and my brothers have turned out to be kind, caring people. But, yeah, it's been, it's been very hard and I was always sort of, you know, comparing my mum to other mum's growing up

because I was like, why can my mum not be, you know, working and well? And, you know, now it really frustrates me that all along,

you know, had my mum being given, you know, her hormones back after, after childbirth, that I would have, you know, we may have, you know, my mum would have most likely kept a career, you know. But I kind of turned to drink to Mask a lot of it as well, which the boys saw. And then your dad did as well,

so that wasn't a healthy thing going on. But Jay from being, I mean, I remember watching him at 11 years of age, wrapping his own Christmas presents because I were like dithering round. And, you know, it's just awful things like that. And because the other two were older than Jay and went off to uni, Jay became the parent and is very mature for his years. And I think because of that, I think, yeah, it's looking back now,

it's had its positives, but it could have easily gone the other way. You are completely strong. And I was talking about this earlier actually to my husband. then that I worry about the effects of changing hormones, not just on the person, obviously I worry about people, but it's the ripple effect. So it's partners, we know that. We know divorce rates increase, but it's the children. And I worry about domestic abuse. I worry about what children are seeing and listening to and hearing and having to put up with. Because how do you ask? How do you ask for help when you're 11 and you're wrapping up your own presence and your mum's

I mean, I was fortunate that I'd got my nan and your mum. And her sister, she really did help. But similarly, you know, you have recollections that it does get passed down this. My mum used to be terrible around a period. Did she. Yeah, and we'd kind of, she'd go into like a little zombie mode. And we all thought because at the time she was having some sleeping tablets, As kids, we decided, oh, she was taking them all at once and it was making her.

But looking back, she did well as she got older, didn't she? She did. She started working. Yeah, she worked. You see, we see that, though, because sometimes it's the changing hormone levels, not just the absolute level. Do you see what I mean? Because the brain likes things the same. So when you're having your periods, your hormone levels drop before every period.

Some people don't notice the change. Lots of people just feel a bit flat, a bit fed up. But some people feel really bad, as you know. But it's the same in the perimenopause when your hormones are fluctuating like that. That's where people can really have a worse time. And in menopause, if hormone levels are low, with time, the brain might accommodate and change. And I was reading a book, I am a bit strange, from 1871, a long time ago by a physician called Edward Tilt, and he wrote about the mental health component of the crisis time before the change.

So they didn't know about hormones, but they knew when period stopped, women calm down. And he was talking about prisons, actually. And he was writing that some women turn to crime because of the way they feel. And we know that's still happening now. But he said some women, some 20 years later, have been released from prison. And they have not committed another crime. than they've calmed down. And I thought actually you can see that

because their hormones have declined. And he was so frustrated the way he wrote because he wanted to help people. He was giving them Bella Donna. He was given them more. He didn't know what to do. But he got it and understood it. Whereas now it's like it's people don't even

associate mental health with hormones and periods. And it's so obvious when you sort of know what's happening. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But, so we spoke, didn't we? And you reached out, and you were in an NHS hospital. And so we managed to persuade the psychiatrists to prescribe, didn't we? We did eventually. I mean, at the first, I remember the ward round,

and I sort of said, I've been listening to Dr. Newsom's podcast, and, you know, I'm questioning if this could be hormones. And the answer was, this is not hormones. Tell me how you think it's hormones. And I said, well, my mum generally got unwell when she'd had a children. And they said, yes, but then it happened after the, after your children. I said, yes, and there's a cycle there. That was at the time, I think, you'd just finished your ECT as well.

So, yeah, we carried on persuading. And fortunately, there was a female psychiatrist that you spoke to. And eventually, you know, they agreed the lowest doses, if you like, with testosterone added as well. Yeah, I got the gel and the patches, didn't I? Yeah, and the tablet on the night that you had. Yeah. I think it's just one patch to begin with, and I was kind of so in La La Land that...

I know. Well, they thought you might have dementia as well, didn't they? Apparently, on a scan, there is a little bit of, what is it called? They did a scan and it was showing some grey area. And, you know, in a ward round they said there's a chance your mum's got front of temporal dementia to which I told the family and we were kind of, you know, I thought this was, you know, this was the final part of the illness. And I really didn't expect anything to recover from there.

Obviously, it was being questioned at the time. But I do feel that if we hadn't got your own hormones, you would have followed the pattern of what is dementia. You know, you're unable to communicate. Social workers and whatever were kind of pushing. for assisted living and showing my videos where, I mean, I look a lot older than my age. I'm like 57 and a half. And they were all about late 70s, 80s.

And I didn't want to go and live in assisted living. And, you know, it would be like kind of popped into that box by the... No. But I remember talking to a psychiatrist and saying, look, you know, you're in your 50s, so you're menopausal. I have no idea how much is related. It seems like some of it probably is because I've seen a lot of people in the past

and the story like you say, the postnatal psychosis, the PMDD, some of it's going to be related to hormones but for your bones, for your heart, there are still benefits. The guidelines are clear that we should be giving hormones first line for women, if they want them, for menopause.

So I said, you can carry on with your psychiatric but you can carry on with the dementia a bit, but I just feel that you should prescribe in February later, she did prescribe them. And they did blood tests actually, didn't they? Yeah, they did. And we could see that you weren't absorbing them very much. And then I thought they'd never give

testosterone, but they did give testosterone. And we know, and it's been known for many years, decades that testosterone can improve well-being, it can improve mental health, as well as physical health. So, and then we had to wait because we have to wait with hormones, and that's the hardest bit because I'm quite impatient. And we were on holiday where I took my children to Barcelona at Christmas time and they were in

a flea market. And finding tops for like a euro. I'm really excited. So I'm obviously on my phone. And I started crying. And they were like, what's going on, Mommy? And I said, I just had this picture. She said, what?

And I showed them and it was you with a Christmas cracker. And do you remember, you showed me the picture. And they were like, yeah, it's a lady. I said, no, but her son hasn't had a Christmas like this before. No, it's not because most of the Christmases, to get through Christmas and panic about, oh my God, it's Christmas, I'll never cope. Obviously, extra drink was brought into the house because it was Christmas.

So that would be me kind of every Christmas Eve afternoon thinking, I'm not having a drink tonight because I want to be aware of Christmas morning. And I'd just go and get sloshed and think. Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. So, and then we've obviously become quite close just to help. And things have just got better.

Fingers crossed, I always panic, but yeah. Well, no one knows the future, like left for today. And, you know, I hope you don't mind saying, but, you know, you both went to see Robbie Williams. Like, who would have thought even a year ago that would have happened? Never, ever would it have happened. and I went with both Christian and Jay we stayed in London a couple of nights at Christians we walked down massive stairs

to get to the gig and I get really bad vertigo and it was just brilliant all of it stood amongst, you know quite in the middle of the standing stadium with you know 50, 60,000 people around you and eventually he got into it

and dancing and singing to the music And it's just, you know, when you look back a year ago. I can't believe. I mean, I live in fear of going back on the wards. I hate them. The first two or three times I went in, I was much, much younger. And it was like, because I was so high, it was like being in a club with your friends type thing, who you'd make friends with the patients.

And but they're not nice places. No, no. They're not. I mean, I've done a lot of. psychiatry in Manchester quite in a city. And actually that was in the early 90s. But then about 18 months ago, I went to go and visit one of my patients who was when there was an HRT shortage, her GP said he don't need it anymore. And her husband reached out to me and said, I'm really worried about her. So I jumped in the car and she was so freaked out seeing me. She didn't

expect me to do it was on a Sunday. Yeah. But I was looking around and I was thinking, God, this could be in 1992. Like, it just, it's so sparse. Do a wardrobe once a week. But what are you supposed to do the rest of the time? It was awful. And I'd just like to add, I've spoken to her recently, and she is amazing. But it's taken a long time with her because she didn't want the testosterone.

And in my clinical experience, it's the testosterone that makes the biggest difference. And a lot of women, I think, have been low in testosterone for a long time. So it takes a while for all those cells to work and regenerate. generate, especially in the brain. But, you know, you're not drinking, are you? I've had the odd one, but yeah. No, I'm not. No, no.

But that's huge though, Haley, to have gone through, you know. I've come off cigarettes. Again, I've been having the odd one, but I'm trying to get off of them totally. But yeah, drink controlled me for years, along with my hormones and maybe some mental health. what I do have, what hasn't been treated as it should have been. So. It's amazing. And, you know, there will be people listening to this thinking, yeah, they're going to say it's hormone.

Of course they are. But there's nothing else that's changed. No, absolutely not. We are going to start gradually reducing some of your other medication, but we haven't changed anything. And those psychiatric medications are the ones that you've been on for, you know, given that they have been changed, but the, you know, the Sertraline-Alanzepine lithium, you've been on them.

Since 2004. So, you know, I don't believe it's the psychiatric. I mean, the Alanzapine, the people who come to give me my meds, they'll come in and they'll put them in a pot for me, say, half, seven, quart, to eight, and they'll say, you're taking them or they used to do. And I'd say, well, no, because if I take them now,

be in bed for like 8 o'clock. So I wait and take them at 10, 11 o'clock. Then I get the munchies. Then I'm in the kitchen, raiding for food, like really being hungry. And the restless legs, that was the other night. They said, I hate, it gets to 10, 11 o'clock and your legs are restless. And that doesn't happen through the day when, you know. Yeah.

I mean, they have side effects. We know they have side effects because they're chemicals, aren't they? And they can be beneficial as well. I mean, they've helped, don't get me wrong by not running up the road in my underwear type thing. Yeah, and this is what I'm trying to really let people understand that lots of medications have a role, but we can't keep ignoring hormones. You know, you might always need some psychiatric medication. I have no way of knowing, of course, that we have no way.

We can't go back in the past and say, if you'd always had hormones, would you have needed? We don't know. But what we do know now is that you are so much better And it's been a while It's not just a quick thing And it's a gradual improvement Which has just been amazing to watch and see But the biggest thing that really upsets me

Is that you still can't get the hormones that you need From the NHS Absolutely And but you can get all these other drugs You can get lithium, you can get alanzapine But why can't you get your natural hormones? I don't, I just don't get it. And I go from being really sad to really cross.

Because it's 2025. We've known for decades that hormones help with mental health. We know that some women need different doses just to absorb through the skin. And we know that you're better. And, you know, you're such an advocate for your mum and you're going through so many layers of complaints and problems. Absolutely. But it doesn't, it doesn't feel right, does it?

No, and it's really frustrating and unfortunately, you know, we've had the help from you where, you know, I get, you know, you respond to me within generally a few hours and, you know, and so warm to us, you know, my mum says you, we're comfortable when we're speaking to you, but when I speak to, unfortunately, some of the GPs and whatnot, they're very cold with us and, you know, we don't get the, how are you? We didn't, we don't get that, it's kind of, you can't have your hormones, I'm following the guide. They're a bit naft off that they can't admit. Yeah, people do well on HRT. Isn't it weird? Like, do you know what? I mean, my husband's a reconstructive surgeon. And years ago, as a training to be a doctor,

you do like a minor injuries course. So you learn, like, how to do little sutures, you know, just tiny lumps and bumps removed. And I was like a little kid coming home from school to show my work. And there was this little patchwork thing and I could show him. He looked at it. He went, that was the wrong suture material.

that's a mess. I hope you never do that in real life. And I could have got really annoyed, but he was right, actually. And he is amazing as a surgeon. But I will respect him and say, wow, isn't that incredible? You can do that. And I can't. Like, it's fine. We're allowed to be different and we're allowed to learn. And, you know, when I was doing psychiatry, I didn't know about hormones. But I lived with regret that I didn't, but I can't change the past. Absolutely. You learn. And it's just this sort of language. it, no, you can't. I mean, you'd sent a letter, you'd given your personal phone number, and then when I

eventually got to speak to the GP, you know, they said, well, Louise is a specialist, I'm not, I do a bit of everything, and I said, so why aren't you responding, you know, why can't you respond to Louise and learn from, you know, she's a colleague, isn't she, to you, and it's sharing, learning and educating, and then, you know, like I say, that, do you know, do said to me, maybe a mum's illness has always been hormones and, you know, just said it off the cuff and I'm kind of like, yes, but that's 30 years of suffering because of, you know, and it does, it does frustrate me that, and I appreciate there's not being anybody like you to advocate for, for this, but.

It is a really sad situation. I mean, I've stopped driving, what, five, six years ago? Because in my mind, I kept thinking, I just want to drive into an oncoming lorry. and torturing myself. But then in later years when I got my grandchildren, I began having thoughts about my grandchildren, so I didn't want to be around them, which they've been to stay for two weekends.

And they want to come more? Yeah, yeah, but I mean, there are a handful. Mind, I'm a lot older than when my kids were little, but you boys were quite well behaved. I was lucky in that sense. But you love being with them, which you were scared of it. I was to work in playgroups when I was younger and then suddenly I couldn't be near children

I didn't want to be because of horrible thoughts what were manifesting and fingers crossed, they're kind of going. Yeah, it's amazing. But, you know, you are just two people out of how many globally and that's what we've got to try and change for future generations.

So I'm really grateful. I really am honestly because I know it's a massive thing that you've come here both of you to share, but I know that you've done it to help others, and that's really important. So I usually ask for three take-home tips, but I can't ask for one and a half each. So I'm going to ask for two each if that's okay.

So I'll ask, who do you want to go first? Do you want to go first? Bring it on. Whatever you're feeling, please don't keep it to yourself. Please go to GP. and, you know, really plead with them for help and don't just stay at home. Jay laughs when I say my dressing gown days

because I rarely bathed. I didn't want to get dressed and totally let myself go. And the other one, please don't turn to alcohol because though at the time you're drinking it, you think it's helping and masking things. It's not. It's just leaving you feeling worse the next day.

whittling am I over the limit driving the boys to school and just don't please help yourself and get to the doctors thank you Jay I've spoke to multiple men now at work etc have said that's what my mum suffered with that's or that's what my wife suffered with after her children we need to talk about it more and remove the taboo from it um accept that you know, if you've got a headache, you take paracetamol, and if you've got a hormone imbalance, you need your hormones. And yeah, my second advice would be, you know, if it is postnatal, I understand that the first line treatment is still to be put on antidepressants,

antipsychotics, mood stabilis. Question, is it hormones? Because, you know, from my mum's experience, I feel like a lot of the time it is. Great advice. Great tips and just thank you for being here. Great help from you. Thank you very, very much. Yeah, thank you, Louise. You've saved my mum's life and that's, you know. Jay always tells me that. Be like Louise.

No, you have, you've saved my mum's life and now, you know, we're, I think we're on the mission with you to save other women's lives. Yeah. Well, we're going to have a work cut out, but that's all right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.