The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 227 - Children and the menopause: the importance of talking

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

In this episode, Dr Louise speaks to the youngest of her three daughters, Lucy, about all things menopause. Lucy, 12, recalls making her mother an HRT tote bag when she was six, plus hiding in her room when there were arguments at home, when Dr Louise was struggling with her symptoms. Lucy shares her experience of having her mum in the public eye, gives Dr Louise sage advice for dealing with bullies and offers her views on why menopausal women need help to remain in the workplace. In a survey conducted for her book, Dr Louise discovered 75% of women had never discussed menopause in their home when they were growing up. Barriers included a lack of knowledge, embarrassment, lack of communication, being short on time and feelings of shame around the topic. While Lucy has had lots of conversations about the menopause at home, she reveals that school education on the subject was limited. But conversations with children about the menopause are important as they can help normalise it.  This World Menopause Month, help us start the most menopause conversations – ever. Everyone’s menopause is individual and to help others understand and manage their menopause, we must break taboos, educate and start the conversation. How to get involved Have a conversation about the menopause Log your conversation on the balance app or website Share that you’ve got involved by tagging us on social media, using the hashtag #PauseToTalk

Hello, I'm Dr Louise Newsom. I'm a GP and menopause specialist and I'm also the founder of the Newsom Health Menopause and Wellbeing Centre here in Stratford-Pon-Avon. I'm also the founder of the free balance app. Each week on my podcast, join me and my special guests where we discuss all things perimenopause and menopause. We talk about the latest research,

bust myths on menopause symptoms and treatments, and often share moving and always inspirational personal stories. This podcast is brought to you by the Newsome Health Group, which has clinics across the UK dedicated to providing individualised perimenopause and menopause care for all women. So today in the podcast I want to introduce to you my youngest ever guest. I'm very excited that my 12-year-old daughter Lucy has agreed to come and talk on the podcast, which is something I never thought I'd be able to do.

And didn't really expect to think about children when it came to the menopause. Because if we Google menopause, of course, it's always old women with grey hair. But Lucy probably knows more than anyone else in the world who's 12 about menopause. So welcome Lucy. Thank you for joining me today. Yeah, hello. So this is your first podcast experience. No, not the first.

Not the first. Oh, we tried before, but it ended up in giggles, didn't it? Yeah, it did. So I'm going to ask you a few questions and you can answer as honestly as you'd like. So the first question is, Lucy, do you think you know much about the menopause? I definitely know more than anyone at my age. But compared to, like, you, I really don't. But I do know a fair bit.

Yeah, of course. So if someone said to you, what's the menopause? What would you say to them? It's when your period stop or, like, they're stopping. and you lose some of the hormones like estrogen, testosterone in your body. So you start having symptoms that aren't very nice. And what about some of the symptoms? What have you learned over the last few years?

What symptoms have you heard about? The main one is hot flushes, which I think it was a few years ago in our school came out and they said you could go cold water swimming to prevent that and you got really annoyed about that. There's also like vagio dryers and libido. And I swear there's like cold flushes as well as hot flushes. People can sometimes get cold flushes, yeah.

Depression, anxiety. Isn't dementia another kind of thing, like memory loss? Some people, we know that women, the longer they are without the hormones, they're greater the risk of dementia. But yeah, memory loss is really common. Yeah. And there's all sorts of symptoms and they don't occur with everybody and they can come at different times and lots of people don't have symptoms or they don't have all the symptoms and some people do have a lot and it's definitely the mental health symptoms. So they're low mood, anxiety, memory problems, fatigue, irritability. Some people just get really cross.

Obviously, I was nothing like that was I when I was perimenopausal. Do you remember? I actually can't because I was like four. So I really don't know that. Do you remember that your sister's talking about it? No, I wasn't part of these conversations. All I remember was that I used to actually prefer to be around daddy when it came to that. Because I remember I had this like journal thing that I like drew in. And I drew you and daddy.

And I wrote, I prefer daddy to mommy. Don't tell anyone. And that's all I can remember of it. So yes, my oldest daughter, Jessica, your oldest sister, has been quite vocal about how irritable and short-tempered I was. And you were young, but I'm sure you were experiencing, Daddy's very level-headed, he doesn't really get cross. But I know that I was getting cross and irritable and short-tempered,

and it probably did lead to you drawing those things in your journal, which thankfully I didn't see at the time, because I probably would have put tears and felt worse. I know, that's why I didn't want to tell anyone. Oh, but hopefully I'm not quite spiritual now, no. Actually, I told Sophie the middle daughter, but she was like, you cannot tell anyone, like,

she will kill you. Like, you can't tell daddy. Yeah. But I remember you used to get loads of arguments with Sophie. I can't remember if that was related, but I used to just, like, run up to my room and I was, like, really scared. But I think that might have.

actually been related because I was still quite young. I think it was. I was less tolerant of anything. And Sophie's hormones were going up and down as well. And my hormones were going up and down. And we're very similar. We're both middle children. And we both are quite feisty at times, as you know. And I had a really short fuse and so did she. And yeah, it wasn't a nice time.

But thankfully we get on very well now and her hormones are more balanced. And mine certainly are as well. Yeah. But sometimes we talk obviously about the men. And I remember ages ago, actually, do you remember when you were at rainbows, you had this bag, didn't you? Then you had to decorate a bag. And I came to pick up and everybody came out. Do you remember that?

Yeah. We had to decorate these like tote bags. So everybody came out with bags and they had, oh, Ted, you can tell me what you did in a minute. Yes. And so people had glue and glitter and paint and they came out with their mums and this glue was dripping down from the bag. and I thought, oh no, what's Lucy going to do? And you just had it folded up. And I thought you hadn't done it.

So just explain to everyone what you did, Lucy, with your tote bag. And how old were you first? How old were you? So rainbows, I think it's like four to six. Or seven, yeah. You're about six, I think. Yeah, I was like towards the older bit. Yeah.

But it's basically, decorating is like canvas tote bags. And we could have like, there's like glue, glitter, like feltip pens. I only would use a feltip pens. but I drew this like half and half thing of before HRT and after HRT and on the before it was this like woman who had like really bad hair and her like her dress was, her dress was fine but it was like night time I don't know what it's a night time and she had a sad face she was very sad and on the other side it was a one with nicer hair and a happy face and like a bright face and like a writer dress and it was like daytime and then on the like handles i just in like

hr-t-h-r-r-r-r-r-r-t like all around the handles what did your friends stay for you can you remember i actually can't remember i remember being like oh yeah i'm gonna make this a mummy make her so happy and like she can use it for like advertising her company and that that's just what's going to do i'm here because to be honest i didn't really want to tote bag because I'd have so many and I didn't really need it at that age. Well, I was very excited. I mean this was... You still have it, I think. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely we do. So it was five years ago so we were just opening the clinic and we'd found this building as many people realised. Winterhouse and Stratford Polyver. I was like five. Yeah. Okay. So it was

around the time but you were very good because you used to come to Stratford a lot because it was over the summer holidays we started to refurb the building and get rid of all the green carpet and the swirly blinds and put in walls. Yeah, it was fun going over. Yeah, so you used to go over and meet Claire and help us. And then when we opened the clinic, do you remember what your badge said? You had a special badge and Houston Health badge. Oh yeah, I had this like magnetic badge.

I lost it when I was parking and I dropped it on the floor, which is really knowing. But it said Lucy Anderson, Dr. Louise Newson's a personal assistant or something like that. And I used to wait all the time. It was like very nice. Yes. I loved it. Which was very nice, wasn't it? So people could know that you were really instrumental in helping.

And actually, you've encouraged me all three of you, and Daddy, of course, it really encouraged me with my work because you sometimes hear when I've had difficult times or difficult days. But actually what's really interesting as well, Lucy, that I wrote an article, which was in the paper you probably don't know last week, talking about the impact of the menopause in schools and how so many teachers are leaving their jobs because of the way the menopause affects them and they're not able to get the right treatment. Well, when I was at my junior school,

I'd been there for a long time and I remember people coming up for me when I was in like year two and then they were coming to me and be like, oh, my mum saw you on the telly this morning, like, tell her I say hi, or something like that. And that was in year two, so like by year six, like people didn't really talk about it as much, actually,

which was quite surprising. But that time you were bigger, which, but most of the teachers, like, I had this teacher come up to me and be like, oh yeah, by the way, tell your mum, like, she's really helped me and like, stuff like that. And, yeah, it was really nice. But yeah, I think definitely my junior school was affected the most because they had you for quite a while. Yeah, but I went to the school and gave a presentation to a lot of the teachers. And I think that really helped them understand, like you say, what all the different symptoms were.

It did because I remember, because when we, I think it was year four, we were doing this paper test to see, like, the weight, like, how different types of paper, like, have different weights. And she got out this, like, normal A4 size of paper. And she was like, would it be fair if I got this? And then, like, your flyer, which was, like, A5 and this next to each other. And I did that. Would that be a fair test?

And I remember saying to the people on my table, and they're like, that's my mom's flyer. and like being like really proud of it. Oh. So yeah, that's one of my memories in school. Do you think men should understand what the menopause is? Yeah, men should understand. I think they should also like,

if they understood then maybe they would be more tolerant of it and like help more women, which would be better for, I don't know, like the community of people like that. Of course it would. So, yeah, it would be better for everyone, wouldn't it? I think that's why balance really helps your art. Yeah. Because men and women get it.

Because then people can understand more, can't they? Yeah, and it gives them better explanation. And especially, I don't think many men have it as well. But the woman can show the men, so they understand it a lot more, which is better. Yes, and they can still listen to the podcast. They can still go on the website. They can still learn and support people. I think that's really important.

But when you were at school, I remember testing you on some of your science, and you had a picture, didn't you, of a womb and the ovaries? and what were you taught about hormones, estrogen and progesterine? So we're all learning about puberty and stuff and there'd be this, you know, like when you'd like get the diagram and there'd be like the labels and yet I'd have to like write them in. My mum was like, what does this produce like hormone-wise? And all I knew was that all like all they told us I knew more obviously

is that women produce estrogen and men produce testosterone and that's it. That's all we learned. We didn't learn anything else. But I think that's why so many people are against women getting testosterone because they think it's like a man hormones. But it's not. I don't think many of people in my class even know that. No, absolutely not.

But I didn't know it when I was a junior doctor. No one taught me. And if no one teaches you, you don't know, do you? And then you just think, well, it's all about men and estrogen's all about women. which isn't right as we know now and the menopause is not just about periods it's about hormones affecting everywhere in our body isn't it yeah so do you think it's better that younger people know about it so that they can either help other people or know for themselves yeah especially

if you're like my age as like a young woman slash old girl i don't know that's something really weird that's a old girl but it makes you aware that when you're older like like just Jessica, my old sister, who now has East student, it impacts her life, makes her life better. If you know from my age what it does and that it's good for you, then you'll have a better quality of life. Because if Jessica didn't get, like, Easter and stuff, I don't think she would be as good in the state of mind that she is now. No, absolutely. I think having you as her mum obviously helps, but I think more young people like me should know

about it. And I think that's so important because, you know, young people like you and your sisters talk a lot more freely than I was when I was your age or sort of your grandmothers spoke. They didn't really talk about anything. They didn't talk about periods or they didn't talk about sex or they didn't talk about hormones. But actually, if you're talking about everything, you might as well add talking about hormones as well and really understand what's going on. Because it's your body it's going to happen to as well, isn't it? So you want to know what's going on. and then you can recognise and hopefully get the right help.

Yeah. Because if you know about the hormones in your body, then you're more aware of what's happening to you as such. I mean, even for boys, like, if they knew more about hormones, then A, they'd help women, like, girls that they meet. They can help them, like, if they're men and pores, or, like, they need estrogen.

But they also can use that knowledge to learn about what's actually happening to them as well. So I think it would be, it is good that I know. It would be beneficial. Definitely. Yeah, so when I started my Instagram account, Sophie, who's now 19, was your age, so it was about seven years ago.

And you know what? She told me off for my Instagram because the boys were laughing because I put in a picture of a dry sponge. And I said, vaginal dryness can be like this. And once people have the moisture bat with the hormones,

they can feel a lot better and then I put something about sex being very painful when people have vaginal dryness and Sophie came home in a very flamboyant way and said, Mommy, this is really embarrassing. The boys on the train were laughing at me. This is awful. I don't want you to continue doing your work. So I said to her, which I've always thought to this. I'll be like, I'll do the same thing. Yeah, well, I said to her, I'll take it down then and I'll stop doing the work because you're more important than my work. And then she said, well, keep it going for a bit. Let's see what happens. Because the boys just said it once. And you know what boys are like. They say something and then they move on to something else. So they weren't judging her for it. And then I did a

podcast with James Smith, who's a big PT, personal trainer. And loads of the boys contacted Sophie went, oh my God, this is really sick. This is amazing. Your mum's done this. How on earth does she know James Smith? And then they're all going, oh my God, your mom's got so many followers. This is really cool. So Sophie's changed her mind and she's very proud and many of you who follow me on Instagram would have seen the gorgeous book that she wrote which you know about which was a surprise for me for my birthday. I was the daughter. I was the daughter in it. Yes. You were a daughter actually hugging me as I didn't do it but I was in it. I was the one that was hanging her. Yeah. Because I could see that you were you were very tearful. I was. I wasn't expecting it at all. It was so

sweet that she did that though. I know. So she's very supportive. She showed me and I was like, oh my God, you're just going to love that. Yeah, she really is. She's very good at doing meaningful presents and cards as well, which is nice. So all three of you have witnessed how hard it is to be a woman at work. Do you think it's harder for a woman to be high in their career or working hard than it is for a man? Or do you think it's the same? I think it depends how old they are, because definitely if they're older, like approaching that premenopausal, like menopausal stage, then it is a lot harder. Like, I think when it gets to that stage,

they should be offered help. Like, you know how you have, like, a cycle-to-work scheme? I think they should have, like, a HR-T kind of thing as well, because then in that way, they have, like, this even ground when it comes to that. But I think when they're younger,

they probably have the same chance because there's not much hormone changes because they've just, like, got through puberty as such. So their hormones, so more like balanced and it's easier, I'd say. Well, not easier, but you know. Yeah, because I met someone recently who told me that she changed her job.

She said, my job is not so high-powered. I've gone part-time and I have a lower-paid job that's easier to do because I'm menopause and I need to change my job. And she hadn't had any treatment or HLT and I think that's really sad, isn't it? No, because she could have kept that job. Because I think if you keep that job and you realize you're struggling and then you find people like you and then you get the treatment

you can stay in that job for as long as you want to you don't necessarily have to like downgrade as such why shouldn't we? Just because you're menopausal I don't want to downgrade You don't have to like otherwise it's not really fair in a way No it's not

I don't think it's that fair It's not fair at all is it And then even if right Just pretend that I was a man for a minute And you know some of the bullying and the conversations that I have with lawyers and other people and come into your bedroom crying? Do you think these people would get at me if I was daddy doing this job? Exactly the same job. Do you think he would be seen more of as a hero?

I mean, yeah, because, I mean, he's a man. But I think you can't really bully you unless you've actually tried if you're a man that has no experience of it whatsoever. like, for example, daddy will know the difference between you before HR and you are to HRT, and if there's no difference at all, he has the right to say, like, what are you doing,

you know? And then if it was a woman who has tried HRT and has got, like, related problems from that, then, of course, like, they can get mad at you. But currently the people that are bullying you, they don't have that.

kind of experience. And like if they had that experience, then they have like the right to bully you. That sounds really wrong, but you know what I mean. No, I know what you mean. And I think it's difficult because you've experienced bullies at school, haven't you? And what would be your tip for people who have had bullying? What works when people bully? Just don't take it to heart.

Like, you'll always have people that support you. You'll always have someone that actually cares about you. and knows that you're not that worthless. So just don't take it to heart at all. Just like ignore it. Yes. It's easy to say, isn't it? But it's very...

Sometimes quite hard to do. Yeah, they wind you up. But you can't let them wind you up, which is like you can't let them do that to you. It's quite hard, but after a while, you'll get it. But you just need someone that supports you. And I think I've got a few people that support me, haven't I? Like me.

And Daddy and Jessica and say, please. Yes. Absolutely. And I think sometimes you don't always know the backstory of people and there are some people who, well, everyone's got a backstory of course. You know, we've got backstories just knowing that you've never met either of your granddad's because they died before you were born. Both your sisters have been very ill at different times. You've had various operations. There's always things that have happened. But actually I think some of these people who bully, they just don't have the good things that we have. We have a really close family that there's lots of love. And sometimes people don't explain. experience love in the same way. Yeah, I think having a close family really helps because you can just talk some about anything and like you don't feel that like distant. But if like we weren't as close,

I think you would really struggle and I would really struggle and we would all really struggle with just different situations. Absolutely would. So I'm very lucky. Yeah, you are very lucky. So don't change as your hormones start to change, Lucy. So I guess I got lucky. You've done really well on this.

podcast and I think it's been really interesting and informative to have the menopause through the lens of a 12 year old. We've not had this before. We might not have it again. Before we end though, Lucy, I always ask for three take-home tips. So these are three things that I think I'm going to ask you are what three reasons do you think children should know about the menopause? So this is boys and girls, three main things that you think why people should know about the menopause. So A, like if you learn about the hormone side of it, it can help you understand your body, like with puberty,

like help you understand it. B, it will help you understand like, if you have a mom, like your mom and like what's happening to her. And C, if you're a girl, then it can improve your quality of life. And if you're a boy, it still can improve your quality of life. So, yeah.

Very good. So basically everybody, whatever age, whatever gender needs to know about it. Otherwise, like, if you're a boy, you won't really enjoy being around a woman as much, or if you're a woman, you won't enjoy life as much, like, you won't get the most out of it. So you should definitely know it. Absolutely. Oh, thanks, Lucy. I'm very, very impressed and very delighted that you've given up your time today. So thank you. You're welcome. You can find out more about Newsome Health Group by visiting www.newsonhealth.co.uk.

And you can download the free balance app on the App Store or Google Play.