The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 53 – Rosie Viva on bipolar disorder, hormones and mental health

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

In this episode, Dr Louise Newson is joined by model and author Rosie Viva, who speaks openly about her experience of living with bipolar disorder, something she also explores in her book, Completely Normal and Totally Fine.Rosie shares her journey to diagnosis in her early twenties, the challenges of being misunderstood, and the reality of finding the right treatment. Together, Louise and Rosie discuss why bipolar disorder is often missed in women, and how stigma and lack of awareness can leave many feeling unsupported.They also explore the often overlooked role of hormones in mental health and why low and changing hormones can often worsen the symptoms of mood disorders. It’s an honest and hopeful conversation about recovery, awareness and improving care for women.LET'S CONNECT  Subscribehere 👉 https://www.youtube.com/@menopause_doctor Website 👉 https://www.drlouisenewson.co.uk/Instagram 👉   / @drlouisenewsonpodcast  Download balance app 👉 / https://www.balance-menopause.com/balance-app/ LinkedIn 👉     /https://www.linkedin.com/in/drlouisenewson/ TikTok 👉   / https://www.tiktok.com/@drlouisenewson Spotify 👉 https://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg  LEARN MORE Download my balance app 👉 https://www.balance-menopause.com/balance-app/Get tickets for my new theatre tour, Breaking the Cycle 👉 https://www.nlp-ltd.com/dr-louise-newson breaking-the-cycle/ Order Rosie’s book 👉https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1526679426?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_cp_apin_dp_05FF0ZGRWP49GNY6XCRX&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_cp_apin_dp_05FF0ZGRWP49GNY6XCRX&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cso_cp_apin_dp_05FF0ZGRWP49GNY6XCRX&bestFormat=true

Hi, just a really quick one. We're really growing our podcast and I want you to help me. If you could just click subscribe or follow me below, it only takes a few seconds and it will really help. Anyway, back to the podcast. Bipolar is far more common than many of us think and it affects around 1% of people. But it can take nine years for diagnosis. So today in my studio I've had Rosie Viva, who is an author, she's a model and she's a great advocate for bipolar. She has it herself and her journey has not been easy.

We have a very open and candid conversation about what it's like to have bipolar, how her diagnosis was made and what we can do to look out for it in other people. So Rosie, welcome to the studio. Welcome to me. Thank you so much. It's really nice to being here. And, you know, I was saying to just before we started that I'm not just about menopause. So sometimes people say, why is she talking to younger people?

And, you know, I'm really interested in the whole body and every organ in our bodies because I'm a general physician. But without a shadow of doubt, the brain is the most important organ in our bodies. And we sometimes have control over it, but sometimes we don't. And I'm just really keen to hear that obviously I know your story, but lots of listeners won't know why you're here as a woman in your 20s talking about mental health. else. So do you mind talking a bit about what's happened? Yes. So I'm Rosie. I'm 29. So it's nice to still be called in my 20s because I feel very sort of on the brink and ready to prepare for another chapter. But I speak very openly about living with bipolar disorder. It's something which I've sort of grown to realise is more and more important that I do as someone who's managed to get their life back.

So I was diagnosed age 22 and I guess growing up I always knew something was different but I just didn't know what it was and I didn't have the vocabulary to describe how it was feeling. And I guess I was also, you know, hiding it and managed to mask it because my temperament is very upbeat. I'm not someone who sort of is lying around with no energy all the time. It was always this mix of high and low. So after my episode, I would just really struggle to find women in the media speaking about this. I couldn't see anyone under age 30 who I could relate to. And if I could, it was always on charity websites. It was never just flicking through a magazine. And so I think I just felt really alone and really abnormal. So that's why I got into speaking about it. And luckily, I've sort of

gained a lot more confidence in the last seven years by the people I've met and now understanding this is actually quite a mainstream illness. I guess one percent of people have it. And one in 12 people are directly affected by having a loved one who suffers with it or if they have it themselves. So yes, it's something we should be speaking about a lot more openly. But a lot of people don't even know what bipolar means. So, you know, a lot of people think it's like a split personality or, I don't know. I definitely don't know. Yeah, so just to explain what it is.

I've spoken about this for such a long time, but I do find defining it's still the hardest question to be asked. Because even between the NHS or a charity, I work with bipolar UK, the definition changes. and also people who have it like to, you know, some people don't even like it to be called a disorder because that implies that something's broken. But in brief, bipolar disorder is a mood disorder, which means that your mood is on a much greater sort of breadth. So you go between a one, which is very depressed and very delusional,

right up to mania, which is sort of a nine and a ten. And at that point, you can go into psychosis. there's two main types bipolar one and two I have type one and that tends to include psychosis whereas type two goes up to hypermania and mania but you don't lose full control in the same way and so for someone with type one you have to be on antipsychotics in order to sort of exist in this world whereas for type two a lot of people sort of have more of a choice with medication so that's my understanding but again I'm still always asking people with bipolar how they like to describe it and things like that because it's so important

to keep learning even when you have it. Yeah, absolutely. And I've spoken about this on my podcast before about, you know, as a doctor, I don't want to give someone a diagnostic label. You know, you don't really necessarily, I don't think it's very helpful to give people just a label without explaining what it is or why it's happening. And, you know, with a lot of the DSM, you know, the psychiatric diseases, there's lots of criteria, almost tickbox. And, you know, it's not just which day of the week you're talking to that person. It might be which minute of the hour of the day that you're talking to them because, you know, our mood really changes throughout the day. And so just having a snapshot isn't usually that helpful, is it? And that could be really difficult.

It's really difficult. And I think it's why the average diagnosis takes nine years. Nine years. From the point of seeking health. help. So that's not even someone who is feeling that their moods are extreme. That's someone who is actively going to a GP to talk about their mood. And I think what I've learned and what I see in a lot of young women is when you go to a GP and you suffer with depression, you very rarely think to mention that you also have good days. Yes. Because we're not programmed to look at people and see happiness as something which is a warning sign when actually if I had spoken about what I was writing in my diary and these huge euphoric sort of epiphanies growing up,

I think my diagnosis would have come about before reaching crisis. Gosh. Can you say what some of those things, what sort of things you were writing about? I mean, you can actually see in my diaries because I've written since I was 12 years old and I write for sometimes half an hour a day.

There's a lot of sort of thoughts and overactivity. But even in my handwriting, I write in capitals when I'm manic and I write in sort of calligraphy style when I'm low. And even that, the shift in energy the sort of obsession with life and that absolute sort of besotted outlook on everything. It just sounds very grandiose. So yeah, my language changes and in the same way when I'm low,

there's just very little perspective on what I have and hope. And it's, you know, we're dealing with those emotions, but we're not taught to look out and spot signs in ourselves. I guess a lot of the time too young to even, yeah, judge. Yeah, well, it's also, if you don't know about a condition yourself that you have, it's really hard to know, isn't it? What's going on? Yes, and bipolar to me was the English weather. And it was a teacher at school who threw rulers at kids.

That was the only time I'd heard the word bipolar growing up. So I wouldn't have even thought to know it was something I could have and definitely not as a young woman either. No. So how long did it take for your diagnosis? So the first time I seeked help was when I was 20 years old. So I'd been freelance for two years after school. And I think my mum always knew that I was very sensitive. That was the way we described my character.

But she hadn't seen the huge amount of sleep I needed in certain patches of my life. And so when I was living at home rather than abroad, I was modelling in Paris for a few years. after school, she said, look, this isn't normal. You're going to a casting, which is half an hour, and then you're asleep for five hours after. So I went to see a GP at 20 to start sort of saying, okay, something's not right. And my mum's picked up on it before me. And that was when I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid, which is very common for women with bipolar. So I guess that was the first time in the medical system, depression got noted down somewhere. But it wasn't until two years later that I got my diagnosis and in that time that was anxiety, depression, which started

getting in the way of work. It really sort of bubbled to a head around that time. So a lot of visits and a lot of different doctors and a lot of different therapists. But unfortunately, until I actually went psychotic, no one thought, oh, this is bipolar. Oh, how old were you when you had psychosis for the first time? Twenty-two. Gosh. Very young. And I have to say, I'm very very open-minded and I love speaking to people about this sort of whole experience but you do see the world in a different way and I don't think I'll ever see the world in the way I saw it before my episode because you're opened up to such a religious viewpoint you read people's energy you can see colours your eyesight everything it's absolutely incredible until it's not so you can remember it all very

clearly I think because I've spoken publicly I have a better memory than a lot of people because I've had to recount it so many times. But being in hospital, my memory is really bad. The first three months were a complete sort of haze. And I think, yeah, I mean, it sort of feels like when you're in a dream and you'll be speaking to your mum and then suddenly they'll look like your dad. That was happening in real life.

And so I think I've blocked out a lot of that sort of heavy psychosis because it was just quite terrifying to be hearing voices and things like that. Absolutely. And, you know, you've written this. amazing book, completely normal and totally fine. It's very ironically named. Yes, but you have put my life with bipolar disorder. And, you know, you haven't hidden much really.

I mean, it's very descriptive, but also what saddens me really is that I did psychiatry 20, 30 years ago, in a very deprived area of Manchester. but actually when you describe the psychiatric hospitals, they don't seem to have changed much. No. I mean, because I was high, my memories of the psychiatric ward is so sort of rose-tinted

because at that level, anything is amazing. I thought the food was Michelin. But yeah, it was quite shocking. Like, there was small things as I started to get a bit better. Like, they wouldn't change what day of the week it was on the whiteboard. And I know you're unwell. But towards the end, I started feeling.

This is, you know, I actually don't know what's going on. I couldn't go outside. I had to ask permission to have a shower. And it is a very weird world. And I'm glad it's not a long-term thing in my case. So I see a lot of women who've been under-psychiatrists for many years. And, you know, they do become quite institutionalised. But I've visited a few of my patients as well.

And one of them, I was really quite shocked, like how sparse everything was. and how, you know, I know, obviously if someone's having psychosis, you're not going to have things around the room that they could throw. But actually, it just felt that a lot of their identity had just been taken away from them with their mental illness. And I don't know that that's a very useful way of trying to build the person back up sometimes. Yeah, it was, I mean, I don't remember being diagnosed. I was so gone.

I was messaging my friends saying bipolar in capitals and trying to find emojis for a polar. bear. So I was totally not with it. And I'm glad I didn't have my phone on me just because in the weeks leading up to being sectioned, I was sharing very manically online and to all my clients when I was modelling

and that was very religious and delusional. So parts of having your things taken away are good but then when it gets to the last stretch where you're really yourself. Getting ready to go back out. I think that sort of process you can't speed it up in the last four weeks where you're allowed

out for lunch but then in every night it would be nice for it to feel a little bit less clinical, but it did save my life, so I'm very conscious not to be too negative. But yeah, definitely character building. And you know, and you talk also about the medication that you've had. And obviously medication is really important, especially if someone's having a psychosis, you know. But there are side effects of medication as well, aren't there? And it's always what suits one person might not suit someone else.

And it's just, it's hard, isn't it? It is. So in the last year or since releasing my book, so maybe even the last six months, I kept meeting women in London who have bipolar. And it was all different industries. So I started a WhatsApp of us just to sort of exchange notes and send messages very sort of specific to this. The wildest thing is that all of us, and there's 12 now in the group, nobody has the same medication routine.

And I think for the younger girls in the group who are, still navigating, sort of getting their stability back and being able to work again, that was the most frightening thing is that you can't sort of predict what's going to work and you have that feeling that maybe nothing ever will. So getting the medication routine right felt like the longest slog and I think that seven months is when you're most fragile and sort of suicidal because no one can tell you with confidence what's going to help, even doctors, which was a scary thing to look at an adult and they just don't know. No. And it is hard. because the way people metabolize the drugs are different, the way they respond is different,

and the way different drugs can interact as well can be really difficult. But you've found a drug that's helped you. Yes, I have. So I take quitoopin and I always say it hasn't cured depression and I definitely still get highs, but what it's done has made me less delusional. And I think in my case, that was always where things got a bit dangerous. So I was about six months after hospital in such a suicidal low. And I just remember the drug started working about two weeks after I started taking it.

I asked my dad a question, which I didn't over consider. And I just had this amazing moment of thinking, oh my gosh, it's just making room in my mind for not just this depressive thought. So it allows me to detach from it. And I guess off medication, it was just too all consuming. So I don't really know what it does, but it helps me sleep. that's the sort of thing which keeps me most stable. Yeah.

Did you have a lot of time when you weren't sleeping? I mean, up until 22. I just thought it was normal, but I remember in my first relationship, I was always awake at 3.30 ready to run. And I was always last out on a night out. And that was just rosy. That was just someone with a lot of energy. And I just thought that was normal and that everyone else was lazy.

And then I guess since I always think there's two types of insomnia and you have bipolar, there's the one everyone else can relate to where you're frustrated, it's four in the morning, that you can't sleep and you're feeling very upset and worried that the next day you'll crash. And then there's the second type of insomnia, which comes in a high, where I know I don't need sleep, and sometimes I just will stay awake till the morning, and I'm not worried about it.

But I know my body actually isn't ready to shut down. It's a really weird feeling. And you can tell the difference between those two. 100%. One's really enjoyable, and all my thoughts are just, can't wait for the next day to begin. And the other one is the one my friends can relate to, which is the most horrible thing to experience

when you're tossing and turning and frustrated and worried about it. And they just are never happening nearby to each other. I have them both in different moods. And how much more common is bipolar women compared to men? I actually believe it's an even split. I wrote that in my book. And I think there was a lot of people at bipolar. UK who helped me sort of make sure that all the facts are up to date. So yeah, I do believe it's

quite an even split with bipolar. Does it take women longer to be diagnosed? I wouldn't know that I just know because most people with type 1, your diagnosis comes early 20s because of that psychotic tendency and so that can't really be missed. Whereas I believe a lot of women who have type 2, their diagnosis comes later and menopause is a massive trigger, which I'm glad I'm aware of, because actually for suicide and women with bipolar, menopause is more of a threat than early 20s around diagnosis. Starting in April this year,

I'm going back on tour across the UK with a brand new show, Breaking the Cycle, the Power of Hormones. I'll be visiting 40 venues, and my aim is to challenge what we've been told about, hormones, to unpick the science that's often overlooked and to explore why there's still so much confusion and misinformation, particularly around hormone health. Our hormones influence everything, our mood, our sleep, our metabolism and our future health. Every single cell in our bodies is impacted by hormones, yet so many people are still left without clear answers. So in this show,

I'll be sharing research, some history, the real stories and some very uncomfortable truth. There will be moments that surprise and maybe shock you and plenty of opportunities to reflect and ask me questions. So if you want to learn, feel empowered and be part of a movement that's changing how we think about hormones, I'd love to see you there. You can buy tickets through the link in the show notes. When I've been looking up about bipolar, not just in UK, but globally. just out of interest. And I put in menopoles and hardly anything comes up about how it does say

it can worsen. But no one talks about hormones. And I find it quite surprising because our hormones are made in our brain. Our hormones, progesterone, eustodial, testosterone, have really important roles in our brain and they also change the level of other neurotransmitters. So serotonin and glutamate and noradrenaline and dopamine, for example. And it's no surprise. is that when you have a drop in the progesterone, estrogen estrogen, it can trigger all sorts of mental health issues, including bipolar. And we've known for decades that there's this association,

and we do know that when women have their hormones back, it makes a huge difference in a positive way to their mental health. Yet there's very few psychiatrists that prescribe hormones. And the other thing, I don't know if you know this, but it's important really to know that antipsychotics can suppress your own hormone production. So I was trying to find out whether there are any guidelines because we know that when people are on antipsychotics,

people often have their blood tests done, they have their thyroid done, they have their cholesterol done, they have a hormone called prolactin level done. But no one does hormone blood tests. I got confirmation back from a very senior psychiatrist the other day just in case I was missing something. And she said, oh no, we don't.

But we've known for decades that these hormones can, block or the hormones can be blocked by antipsychotics. So a lot of people will have an earlier menopause when they're on those drugs. I don't know if that's on your radar at all. No, I mean, I think across any illness, you just look, there's a website I've got very sort of hyperfixated on where you can type in what investigations are currently going on in the world around bipolar, so I'm constantly looking about subjects I'm passionate to understand more of. And it's never women focused. And that's always what's so sad, especially because the reason I find it's so important to speak about this as a woman is that, you know, with hormones, we're already

worried about being crazy and impulsive. So then to say, oh, I also have a mood disorder where I'm flipping and, you know, it's just like, oh, do I have to admit both? But obviously I do, and I'm getting really confident that it's not something to be embarrassed by. But yeah, I think women and research is something which is just so important and it's amazing. for women like you to be raising around. Well, we've been excluded for many years from research. And it was only the year I qualified in 94 that women were allowed really and more routine to be in studies.

So all the work I did as a undergraduate was based on men because they didn't use women. I mean, it's just madness, isn't it, really, to think about it. And then we know that it's too complicated really when women have hormones. But it's not because a lot of women, and I don't. know if any women in your group find that they, their symptoms, their mental health symptoms worsen before their periods when their hormones drop. Yes. I mean, that is me. I mean, I, for ages, I was considering getting a PMDD diagnosis and then I just became comfortable with saying my bipolar cycles with my hormones and the two weeks before my period, it's just so

obviously triggering the whole thing. And I guess in some ways it's the hormones, in some ways, it's taking you back to the day-to-day bipolar fears of can I do this for the rest of my life? And I don't know what to do about it. But it's nice to know that there's other things to try outside of bipolar medications. But no one's really spoken to you about trying to have your hormones balanced in those two weeks. No. I mean, the NHS is brilliant in getting you out the system and the three years support after was so helpful. But I've been speaking to Westminster Council since I've been discharged because at no point was

I told about diet and exercise. And just because I've been on social media and I work as a model, I've always been interested in wellness. But that was something I've come to myself. And most people have never even considered that, you know, sugar and all these things which can spike your mood is something we need to take more seriously if we have bipolar. So, yeah, a long way to go.

It's very important because sometimes it's this downward spiral as well. And, you know, people who are listening, won't all have bipolar, but many of us have had times where we just feel quite low in our mood, and then you don't want to exercise, you don't want to eat properly. But you know if you don't exercise, you don't eat properly, it makes you feel worse. But when you're doing this, it can be really difficult. And then you throw low hormones into the mix. It can make a difference.

And there are some women who it's not just the level of hormones. So when people are menopausal, their hormones are low and they stay low forever. But when we're perimenopausal or have PMS or PMD, is the change in hormones that can shift change in mental health. So a lot of people find, especially their progesterone, goes down very quickly before our periods. And that change in the brain can trigger mental health symptoms. And we've known this for many years that actually having the natural hormones back, so not the same as contraception, can make a huge difference to mental health.

But often in medicine, people don't join the dots. You know, it's somehow people think hormones are for periods and mental health symptoms are just the brain and they don't realize there's a connection between everything. Yeah, I mean, it's something I'm so eager to learn more about because I think what I've learned is I'm so sensitive to everything. Or if your brain is like this, I, you know, I also have stomach issues and for a few years that was a real worry. But then when I sorted up my anxiety, that went away. and exercise I feel like I've got into long distance running because I've noticed that these things affects me more, which is a positive.

Yes. But I'm sensitive in every way. I even breeze really easily. So I'm like, yeah, I'll try anything because at least I'll see the effect, whether it's good or bad, I guess. Yeah, and this is the thing. Sometimes in medicine, we don't always have the answer, but we'll try something and see if it helps.

And what frustrates me often is no one's thought about hormones. And hormones are part of the puzzle. But often when people take hormones, they just feel better. They might have more stamina because we know our hormones work in our muscles and our bones. So it might find that exercising is just easier. They might just feel more motivated. So even if they're not helping a specific mental health disorder, they might be helping everything else around it,

which all of these things feed together, don't they? And like you said, if it's making exercise easier, that then affects your mental health. Yes. So, yeah, helping my energy levels is one of the most important things. I really try and have similar sort of sleep routines. And my diet is very high protein. And I think a 360 approach to bipolar is why I manage it. It's definitely not just the medication.

That's probably about 30% I would say of getting better. Which is really important. And I think more and more as patients, we should be advocates for ourselves and for others as well. I think so often, and it was the way I was taught as a medicic, is that you medicalise everything and you treat everything with a magic drug and everything will improve. And that's not right because everyone, as you say, responds differently to different drugs. But also our metabolism is different.

The way we live is different. And that's fine because we're all different. But we have to be looking at, like you say, everything as well, don't we? And I always say this. I'm such a believer that also surrounding yourself with the right people is so, important when you have bipolar because a huge cause for a mood swing for me is if someone's off or I don't feel comfortable and I can't be myself. And I started really thinking, okay, how did I feel coming away from that person? I need to be more careful about who I'm around. If I'm choosing to

not drink, I need to make sure that people aren't cold with me and think that's uncool. Because I just, I can't always drink. I can't always be fun. So the last few years has been learning how important that is. It's, yeah, I've been a game changer. It's important. I was talking to my daughter this morning with one of her friends and they were saying about some guy who'd been really annoying for some reason or other. And the other, the friend of my daughter said, well, yeah, he's just full of insecurities. And then my daughter said, really, I hadn't thought like that. But I'm always really insecure when I'm with him. And I said, that's because he's insecure. You're picking up on his insecurities. It's like when you're with someone happy, you always feel happier if you're with someone

who's low. You always feel low. That's just human nature. And when you have bipolar or other conditions. Some people are more in tune with other people's emotions. And it's important to, like you say, acknowledge it because if you are with different people at different times, it could really affect your mental house, couldn't it? Yeah. And like he said, I'm so conscious of how people make me feel. But also, I guess the years after my episode, I was so dependent on my mum and my mum only. And that was making me feel like a burden. And so I guess the last seven years has been spreading that weight across friends and learning that I can lean on my sisters as well. And now if one person is unavailable, I've got such a support network.

And that was something, yeah, I didn't know the importance of until now. Yeah, started therapy this year, which was very late at the age of 29. But it's just making sure there's multiple ways to prop yourself up rather than one person or one friend, which has been good to learn. It's really important. So just your book has been selling well. What's been the response from it? I think the wildest response is that it's exactly what I hoped it would be,

which is a lot of young women messaging me. And I guess people with bipolar also they don't see themselves in the media. And so I get a lot of very long messages about whether they're still in hospital or whether someone's son is really unwell. And weirdly that doesn't affect my mood. There's something really nice about social media that I'm always, detached in a nice way. And I know that it can also be so detrimental to your health,

but when you're speaking publicly about bipolar, it gives me a distance, there's no rush to reply. If something's really long and sort of heavy, I can take time to consider it. So it's been a really brilliant way to connect. And I guess, yeah, the main thing is that people said it made them laugh as well, which I was happy about because I didn't want it to be a heavy book because there's too many heavy books about this subject.

So a lot of people have messaged who don't have bipolar. but found it funny and relatable, probably because of my awful dating stories. But I'm glad that it gave some joy, to be honest. Well, you do write it in a very light way. And I think because you're so much better, I knew that there would be a happier ending somehow. And I think that makes it a lot easier.

But, you know, it's very relatable because, you know, just talking when you're talking about family and different things, people can just relate. And hopefully it will help. them think more about recognising mental illness in other people as well? I think so. I think it's just even having been aware of bipolar, it could have saved me two years of work and a lot longer to rebuild my confidence if I had even had a thought, oh, could it be bipolar? And I'm working with bipolar UK at the moment on a campaign around

this, my acting debut is an awareness video because I think even if it was in your vocabreble, one conversation at school or in sick form or a teacher mentioning it, I would have been curious to think about it, but it was just the lack of conversation and the shame around it, which meant right until sort of breaking point, I didn't even consider it was something I could have. Yeah. So that is the thing. It can happen to anybody. Anyone.

And it's the same as any mental illness, of course. Or any condition can affect anybody. But the sooner it's recognized, the sooner people can hopefully be diagnosed and get the right treatment. So there's a happy ending. So I'm very grateful for you coming on. I always ask at the end for three take home tips. So I'm going to just ask you very easily three things that people should think about if they think have I or has my friend got bipolar? What are the three sort of flags that they should be thinking about? Three flags. I think one. Oh, that's a really hard question. because I've had friends who I think have bipolar

and they've taken it really the wrong way and totally rejected the idea. So I'm not an expert on this. But I think one thing is to maybe find an article online which is in the context of a more casual conversation. So I wrote for Stylist when my book came out and the reason I was so excited to do that is that's an article you could send on WhatsApp to someone

or over text. And if I received that before my diagnosis it would have been less daunting than someone just saying, hey do you maybe have bipolar here's an NHS website i would have really rejected that so that's one thing i would recommend doing another i would also say is just the worst that can happen with approaching someone about any mental illness is that at first they'll be quite defensive but it's just like i said if that then makes them aware of the word if they then go away and look it up and find people online speaking about it there's now people on tictock like it's really getting better

in terms of it being a young audience, it's just putting the word on their radar. And then most people are curious. We all have chat GPT now. We all have Google. So that's a bonus. And then the third one, I think, is just to educate yourself and be less fearful that it's a big deal.

Because for many, especially with type 2, it's something which could go on for 10 years. But the medication is really brilliant and it's not a death sentence and people live really great lives with this illness. So I think it's, yeah, going, reading articles, reading my book, reading a little bit about it and just not finding it a scary topic even just to discuss just casually. Yeah. Absolutely. And keeping positive. It's really important. So thank you so much. It's been great.

No, always. Thank you so much for having me. I've got something really exciting to share with you. Every Thursday I'm going to be releasing an extra episode for those of you that sign up. It's an opportunity that I can have more guests, share more information, dig deeper into the research that I can share with you. And when you subscribe, this money is going to be used to help with research, much-needed research that's away from pharmaceutical companies. So information is down in their show notes. So have a look and subscribe and enjoy.