The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 87 – When motherhood changes your brain: the missing role of hormones Laura Guckian

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

Becoming a mother is often described as the happiest time in a woman’s life. But for many, it can also be the hardest.In this week’s episode, Dr Louise Newson is joined byMotherhood Coach, Maternal Mental Wellbeing expert and Founder of Mind Mommy Coaching, Laura Guckian, who shares her deeply personal story of severe postnatal mental health difficulties that led her to admit herself to a psychiatric hospital when her son was just 10 months old. Years later, she was diagnosed with autism and ADHD, helping her make sense ofexperiences that had never fully been explained.Together, Louise and Laura explore why hormonal changes after pregnancy can have such profound effects on the brain, particularly for neurodivergent women, and why hormones are so often overlooked in conversations about maternal mental health. They discuss the limitations of labels such as postnatal depression, why antidepressants don’t address the underlying cause for every woman and how understanding progesterone, testosterone and estradiol may transform the way we support mothers.This is an important conversation about feeling unseen, finding answers and why every woman deserves healthcare that looks beyond symptoms to understand what’s really happening.LET'S CONNECT👉 Subscribe on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/@menopause_doctor?utm_source=DLNpodcast+&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=BAU+👉   Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/menopause_doctor/?hl=en&utm_source=DLNpodcast+&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=BAU+👉 LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/drlouisenewson/?utm_source=DLNpodcast+&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=BAU+👉   TikTokhttps://www.tiktok.com/@drlouisenewson?utm_source=DLNpodcast+&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=BAU+👉 Spotifyhttps://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg?utm_source=DLNpodcast+&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=BAU+LEARN MORE👉 Download mybalance apphttps://balance-app.com/?utm_source=DLNpodcast+&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=BAU+👉 Order my new bookhttps://bio.to/ThePowerofHormones?utm_source=DLNpodcast+&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=BAU+👉  Speak to NewsonClinichttps://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/?utm_source=louise_podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=clinic_cross_promotion👉  Visit my websitehttps://www.drlouisenewson.co.uk/?utm_source=DLNpodcast+&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=BAU+

On my podcast today, I've got Laura Guckin from Mind Mummy coaching, and we talk about her experiences after giving birth. She didn't know, but she had worsening symptoms related to her autism and ADHD. But she's been struggling without any help and support. What blew her mind today was me talking about the impact of hormones on ADHD, autism, and how the big hormonal drop after giving birth can trigger something. such symptoms. She's now thinking about her own perimenopause and the impact of hormones there. So there's quite a lot to unpick on the podcast today. So thank you so much. You've come over

from Ireland for the podcast. So thank you for coming. I'm really keen to always think about hormones in all women of all ages. And, you know, a lot of people just think hormones are menopause and they're not. They're there forever. And they're changing all the time. And they're And the role of hormones in our brain have been misunderstood for so long. So when you talk about menopause, everyone thinks about flushes and sweats. When you think about PMDD or PMS, people think it's a psychiatric condition because it affects mood. Whereas I'm very much thinking about the power of those hormones in our brain and when we don't have them, all those levels are changing. So women with PMS, PMDD, but also postnatally as well, there's that massive shift of hormones.

in our body and our brains. So can you tell me a bit about your story and then people will understand a bit more why I'm so interested in thinking. Yeah, and I'm excited to talk to you today because I guess I became a mom 10 years ago. I can't believe it was 10 years ago. And at the time, I guess everything I'd heard about motherhood

is this is going to be the best time of your life. And for me, unfortunately, I wasn't. I really, really, really struggled with my mental health and I guess when we talk about particularly maternal mental health, we tell people to share, tell someone. And I was sharing it with every healthcare professional that would listen. And unfortunately, no meaningful support was offered. And long story short, and I'm sharing all of this if anyone wants to hear the full details of it.

It's on my Instagram page, Mind Mommy coaching. But I made a really, really hard decision when my baby was 10 months old to check myself into a psychiatric hospital. In Ireland, we don't have mother. in baby units and I was struggling so much that I knew it was the only way I could get better. So I remember having that conversation with my GP sort of saying, you know, please refer me in and she was very reluctant saying, you know, you can't bring your baby. But I really just felt like if I don't go in here, I'm not going to survive this. And you knew you'd have to leave your baby then.

Yeah, I knew. But at the time, and this might sound really strange now to anyone listening, I was okay with that. I actually... You wanted to get better. I wanted to get better. I didn't actually want him with me. And that wasn't a bonding thing. That was more, I am so exhausted.

I can't get better if I have to continue doing the mothering. And there was even, I guess, a lot of judgment from the GP around that as well, going, but you'll be apart from him. But for me, it was the right thing to do. And really, it was the decision that saved my life ultimately. So what symptoms were you getting? I had this, I guess, deep desire. to take back control.

Like in my life up to that, I'd been very successful. I'd a really successful marketing career. I'd been used to achieving. I'd been used to being in control. And the only way I can describe it is when I became a mother, it felt like I didn't know how to live anymore that no matter how much I tried to be organized,

have structure in my day, I couldn't take it back. So it was this deep desire to take back control and this real frustration and anger when I wouldn't. There was a real loneliness because I couldn't see any other mother who felt like me. Everyone was enjoying every moment of motherhood. And this again was 10 years ago. So these conversations weren't really happening. So I guess there was a lot of guilt, a lot of shame. I thought I was a terrible mother. Absolute exhaustion. I mean, my little boy had severe silent reflux. So he wasn't sleeping. Even though my husband and I were taking it in shifts, he cried all the time. So it was just an exhaustion, a frustration and anger that I've never ever felt before in my life. And what happened in the psychiatric hospital? Yeah. So when I went in, they told me you're probably only going to be here

for a few days. And I went in thinking, actually, this might be quite nice. As a mom who hasn't slept in months, I'm going to get a full night's sleep. And I don't think I was really accepting what was happening to me. But after a few days, and I met with my multidisciplinary team, and I suppose I'm talking about a private psychiatric hospital in Dublin, you know, there was the consultant psychiatrist, psychologist, and basically they were like, look, you've come to us to ask for help and we want to support you. But in order to do that, we need to figure out what drove you here. And I was thinking, that makes sense. And to do that, they said, you need to stay here typically for eight to ten weeks. And I literally was like, no, no, no,

I was only coming here for a few days. I don't need to be here. And I guess, you know, they were like, you can leave now if you want, but we do want to help you. And that will be our recommendation. so we can try to understand what's really going on here and then find the best way to support you. So I guess I surrender to it and agreed to stay there because the alternative to me was, if I go home, there's no support there and I don't want this to kill me

and I want to get better, so I'm going to stay here. So how long were you in for? Two months. Wow. Yeah, two months. And did they give you treatment or? This is the frustrating thing. So I guess the reason I agreed to stay

was I trusted them that they would figure out what drove me there. And even after a few days, they were like, look, it's clear to us. We don't actually think this is postnatal depression. We think something else is going on. So we're going to observe you and figure out what's happening. And my eight weeks there, it was a combination of me being there and having something called therapeutic leave where there was times I could go home for a night or two. I did see my baby. It wasn't like I was locked in there for eight weeks and that was that. But towards the end of it, they kind of came to the conclusion, which which is probably the hardest part about it

where they said, we really don't know what's going on here. We've assessed you for so many things and we can't figure out what drove you here. So we're going to discharge you and basically best of luck. Oh, gosh. So I left definitely feeling more rested,

you know, a little bit better. They did put me back together. But essentially I was left to my own devices to sort of rebuild my life. And what they missed in there is something I can't really ever forgive them for based on what I shared with them. But years later, when I had my second baby,

because I went on to have another baby about three and a half years later, we learned that he was autistic. And I knew nothing about autism at the time, only the stereotypical image that we have in our head. And the more I learned about it, people were saying, you know, it can be genetic. And if your child has it, there's a good chance you might have it.

And something in me clicked. And I rang the hospital and I said, you know, can you pull up my file and see if I was assessed for autism? and they said, well, before we even pull up your file, we can tell you we didn't because we don't assess for that here. And something in that moment, I just knew. I'm like, oh my God, I'm autistic and they've missed it. And I can remember telling them I can't look people in the eye.

The hardest part about motherhood for me is that lack of control and structure. And sure enough, we learned I went for an assessment that I am indeed autistic. All my children are autistic. And I then later learned I also have ADHD. So for me, I don't still fully know what happened me in my postnatal period for my first baby, but I think a lot of it was down to the fact I was an undiagnosed neurodivergent woman who just couldn't cope. Yeah, that's so interesting. And did anyone talk to you about hormones at all when you were in?

No. Yeah, you see, it's really, it's really interesting, the whole neurodivergent, autism, ADHD, because it's exploding. We're seeing it more and more as I'm sure you really. realise and the more people that are going for diagnosis, the more people are diagnosed. A lot of people have it, but they're functioned with it, if you see what I mean. Yeah. But then something happens to some people and it tips them over. Yeah.

So probably the reason that you've been so successful in the past before you had your first baby was because it was like a bit of a superpower. You could be very focused. You could do all these things, you know. But then something happened to your brain, which meant you couldn't control. And some of it is the chaos of having a baby. but I'm pretty sure, I can't tell you for sure, that some of it will be the hormonal changes in your brain.

And because we see it a lot in our clinic, we see a lot of people who have either undiagnosed ADHD or autism or it's been diagnosed and it becomes uncontrollable. And the only thing that's changed is their hormones. And then, you know, I very much think about the basics. Like in medicine, what is the underlying cause? what's the basic pathophysiology. So we know the hormones, progesterone, testosterone, are made in our brains.

They function on every single cell in our brain. But when you have a baby, anyone has a baby, you have this massive drop of progesterone and eustodine and even testosterone. So your brain has gone from being quite calm and whatever to suddenly chaos happening. Then you put in poor sleep, luck of routine. Then it's the whole thing. It's just, and the brain. wires in the wrong way. And so, you know, a lot of work that we're doing, we're doing some really

interesting research looking at the role of all three hormones, but we're realizing more and more that it's more progesterone and testosterone that have really important effects on the brain when it comes to neurodivergence and ADHD and autism. Yeah, that's so interesting because nobody has ever said that to me before, particularly about the impact of that when you're nor a divergent. I mean, I know from my work and the mothers I work with, so many mothers are fine in life until they hit motherhood. And I have a theory. Well, I have a theory. It's also backed by evidence that a lot of those women are nor divergent and don't know because out of the clients and mothers I've supported over the last few years, 40% of them have come back to me and said, you know what?

I did actually seek an assessment and I'm either autistic or nor have ADHD or both. and that is why I struggle so much in early motherhood because I think if you are an o'er divergent, like you said, it will either hit you when you become a mother if you manage to survive that and it doesn't hit you, it's definitely going to hit you in perimenopause or menopause. For sure, absolutely. And again, and this is one of my frustrations

is that so many people then go on other drugs rather than thinking about the hormonal shift. And in my book, I've written, I've just had a book, The Power of Hormones that's come out And I've written a lot about the role of hormones in the brain, but also I've written a lot about labelling of women and mislabeling women because I find as a healthcare practitioner, I find it very frustrated when women are trying to be put into a diagnostic label really,

you know, because it doesn't really always help you. Like for them, did you have postnatal depression or not? Probably not. But what they should have said was you've had a hormonal shift that's affecting your brain because then the next question would be, well, which hormones? And then the next question would be, how do I get those hormones back? And then it doesn't matter what label you've had. Do you know what I mean?

And I think this is the same with ADHD and autism, because the more you look at it, the more you find it. I mean, we have lots of conversations in my family because I have never had a formal diagnosis, but I'm sure I've got ADHD, and my husband's definitely autistic. I mean, he's a surgeon, he's very binary. And my children are a mixture of both of us. but I'd only go for a diagnosis

if I really needed help and it was affecting me in a bad way do you know what I mean I like the way that I can do 50,000 things at once and it doesn't bother me I have so many tabs open and that's a really key thing for me seeking the diagnosis

was I wanted to know my why but it didn't change it didn't help that though did it it was interesting because it was almost the self-forgiveness I gave myself even though I didn't need to forgive myself for anything but it was like wow

that's what happened me and it just felt right and I knew that was the reason why and suddenly it's like you've spent your life looking at the sky as being blue and suddenly you wake up and it's green and you're like how did I not see that before? And it is so useful for people to explain

I think that's because otherwise and you know I'm sure with your work women are not listened to they're not believed it's all in their head so for someone just to give an explanation it allows you to think well it's I'm not the worst mother in the world

I, you know, and I think that's so important. But for me, thinking about, gosh, okay, how would you have been if someone had actually thought about those hormones? And now you're talking about perimenopause. Well, this is a great opportunity for you to think about the right balance of hormones because you don't want to go back to how you were before. Yeah. And I said this to you before we started recording here. I am really scared about how perimenopause is going to impact me. Like I'm 41 now.

I think I'm in perimenopause. I've met with my GP, I've started HRT. But part of it is like, wow, there's such a lack of understanding around perimenopause and menopause anyway, I think, because, well, they don't study women, but particularly around nor divergent women and how to support them through that. And it's really, really frustrating.

But this is the other thing in my book. I've written that I just don't even like the word perimenopause. Really? Because if you look at the word, peri means around the time of. Menopause means a year since your last period. So like how the hell, unless you've got a crystal ball that you've not brought to show me, like how do you know when your menopause is going to be and how do you know around the time of it? It all just feels, whereas I'm very particular about language.

And I think we should be saying progesterone deficiency, estradial deficiency, testosterone deficiency, because they're three separate hormones that have different roles and functions. So, you know, you're saying you've started HRT, well, you've started some estrogen, but no one's spoken to you about progesterone or testosterone. which in my vast clinical experience are the most important hormones when it comes to autism and ADHD. And a lot of people's testosterone starts to decline from their late 20s. So there are a lot of people that are having regular periods,

but are having low testosterone, and they might have a bit of PMS, premencial syndrome. So interesting. Yeah, and then they'll have low progesterone for some of the cycle as well. I wanted to take a quick pause from our conversation to tell you about my new book, The Power of Harmonic. Many of the topics we discuss on this podcast are explored in much greater depth in my book. I look at how hormones really work in the body, why they've been misunderstood for decades,

and how confusion between natural hormones and synthetic hormones has influenced medical practice and public perception. Most importantly, I explain why understanding hormones is essential for improving both current health and future health. So if you'd like to continue learning beyond the podcast, my book The Power of Hormones is available now and I've included a link to buy in the episode show notes. So talk to me about what is the role of that like in anyone listening who doesn't understand those two hormones we're talking about when we don't have enough of them. Yeah.

What's the impact on your life? Yeah, lots of impacts. So those hormones affect every single cell in our, if you just think about our brain, every single cell in our brain, but they also work as neurotransmitters, so chemicals that sort of tell other bits of the brain what to do. So you will have heard of other neurotransmitters like dopamine and adrenaline and serotonin and glutamate and melatonin, our sleep hormone,

all of those, they're all neurotransmitters as well as hormones, if you like. And there's a really fine balance. Like you need a bit of dopamine to get you up in the morning and to go, oh, look, the sun's shining, let's have a good day. You don't want too much or you'll be completely manic. And it's the same, even with ADHD, you know, some people can't concentrate at all, so they're all over the place and you don't want that.

But you actually don't want to be so hyper-fixated that you forget about anything else. And that's the way our balance of all those hormones and neurotransmissors in the brain is key. It's not just one. But when you don't have those hormones, then you've got lower levels of dopamine, lower levels of serotonin,

lower levels of melatonin, lower levels of glutamate, all of those who it affects your mood, your memory, your motivation, your sleep, because all those hormones. But then they also help the firing of the neurons, so the nerves, like, send signals from one area to another of the brain, and that firing gets faster and more effective when we've got our hormones. So, like, a lot of people who have low testosterone,

have brain fog and memory problems. Because they know that, they know that they want to say something, but they can't. A lot of people come to me in the clinic and say, I think I've got early dementia. Like, I've got this word finding problem or I'm at a meeting and my brain is just completely empty.

That is literally me in my last, when I was recording an episode of my podcast recently, I literally, we were doing three records in the day on all three multiple times throughout. I was like, I have no idea what I was about to say. Like, it's like your brain switches off. Yeah. Or you get your words mumbled up.

It's really, really. A lot of people say they open their mouth and they have no idea what's coming out and it's not what they're expecting. And this word finding is really difficult. And I had it. I've been on HLT, including testosterone for about 12 years. But about 13, 14 years ago, it was really. And you know that it's there. It's like thinking through treacle.

Like you just can't do it. And it's really awful. It's paralyzing people throughout. But that's where testosterone has it because it works on the memory. part of your brain as well, the motivation part, every area of the brain. And then progesterone is a very calming hormone. It helps people be more calm and not be quite so hyper-excitable about things, which, and it help with sleep as well, help with anxiety. It also can change levels of cortisol, our stress hormone. So we want a bit of stress just to get up, you know,

get us going, but we don't want too much because then it's overwhelming. So it helps. balance that as well. So it's really important. And a lot of young people are low in progesterone. A lot of people think they're on progesterone because they're using a mini pill, a progesterone pill, but it's all synthetic. So it blocks the natural hormones working in the body. So how do you access like, I guess I don't really know what I'm asking, but how do we navigate that as women then to support that? Because this, I feel so seen in this. I'm like, oh my God, I can't remember what I'm saying, I am exhausted beyond belief. And actually, even if you take the hormones out of it and just look at the circumstance, if you're constantly forgetting what you're saying, that's exhausting

in itself. It is. No, totally. It's just this vicious cycle of going through that. And then again, as a woman going, I feel so unseen in the medical world. Nobody is understanding this. And you're speaking a language now that I'm like, that makes so much sense to me. And it's really hard because a lot of people go, oh, well, look at you. You're in your early 40s. You've got two children. you work really hard. You know, they would never say that to a man. Yeah. And actually, you know yourself that you're not firing all cylinders.

So my job, I feel as a clinician, is to try and exclude all other physical causes. So, you know, have you got anemia? Have you got low vitamin D? Have you got, you know, low folate? All of those things that contribute. And usually most doctors exclude all that. But no one really thinks about hormones. So think, and I always say to patients, I have no idea how much of your symptoms are related to your

But what I want to do is balance them in a physiological way. So give you back the right dose and type of each three hormone. If you've got low testosterone, we can find that on a blood test. Most people have low progesterone and giving the right dose of that. Optimizing estradi, we can do blood tests. And then wait three to six months because they can take a while to have an effect. And then that's when usually people go, wow, like I'm back. This is incredible.

So what's the role of HRT then? What does that actually do? do. So HRT is only, again, I don't like, the word. There's so much misunderstanding. Because when you hear menopause, what you hear associated with is HRT, but what actually is HRT? And I don't even like the less is HRT because what does it mean? Hormone, we've got dozens of them. So it's not telling you what it is. Replacement, actually, if you're still having periods, we're not replacing, we're just topping up. It's more like a supplement. And therapy sounds like you need a couch and it's sort of some weird. So I, again, would talk about estradiol, which is a form of estrogen treatment, progesterone treatment, testosterone treatments.

Because then not everyone needs all three hormones and then you're doing it separately. So if you've got progesterone deficiency, you'll say, can I have some progesterone then? Do you see what I mean? Yeah. Whereas if you're going, I don't know if I'm perimenopausal or not, do I need HRT or not? Then that's really complicated. So because it is a really simplistic problem, the problem is it's been made really complicated. because everyone's scared of HRT, they think it causes breast cancer,

which it doesn't because it was the older types of hormones. In fact, it's still in contraceptive pill that are associated with risks. But now what we prescribe are exactly the same structure as our own hormones. And you can just top up. So a lot of people, when they start hormones, they're still having periods. So they're still having some hormones, but not enough to get the brain to work, or they might be having some skin changes or some joint pains or some you and retract symptoms. So then you give enough that they need. And then with time, their body produces

less. So then you might need to change the dose. It's very, it's just, all it is is a topping up of a natural hormone. It's very simplistic. It makes so much sense the way you're describing it. It's just the frustration of like, why do you think there's such a lack of understanding around women's health? Like, it's, it's mind-boggling because we're all saying, I feel like this. We can't name what it is. We don't know what the solution is. But yet. And then you've been given antidepressants and God knows what all offered them. It's not helpful. And then it's not working.

So as a woman, particularly as a mother, you blame yourself because well, even that's not working on me. And for me, that was really hard because I was like, wow, I don't even have postnatal depression. Antidepressants didn't work for me. They couldn't figure out what's wrong. So it must be me. But like even the clarity of, well, you're nor a divergent was a step closer to, no, there's actually something going on here.

We need to understand more of it. But it's just mind-boggling that women's health. It's 2026. It's honestly, I say I've got three daughters, and I often say to them, I'm really embarrassed being a doctor, like really embarrassed. Like, don't get me wrong. I'm very proud of what I do. But I'm so embarrassed that most of my colleagues have had no training about hormones at all. And it's partly because the study, the Women's Health Initiative study came out in 2002, which scared everyone about from hormones.

Everyone's then thought menopause is about periods. So then gynecologists seem to control women when it comes to periods. That's an interesting question. Can you still be in perimenopause or menopause if you're having period? We can still have low hormones. Yeah, definitely. And so even, you know, a lot of people have PMS or premencil syndrome or more severe form, PMDD, premencil dysphoria disorder.

So they'll have regular periods. But if you talk to them, those few days before their periods come, they're feeling dreadful, you know, mental health symptoms, physical symptoms, feeling very anxious. low, irritable, angry. And then the period comes and they feel better. So they're having regular periods. And my real frustration is that if you go to a gynecologist, they'll say, well, your period's fine, you're fine.

No, but talk to the woman, she's not fine. She's telling you. And when there's a cyclical pattern, then let's make sure there's no hormonal issue because there will be. But the problem is PMDD is often thought of as a psychiatric condition, so then you get psychiatric medication. Whereas, you know, you treat the underlying cause. You know, if you had, if you were bleeding on your arm, but you had a knife in your arm,

I wouldn't just put a plaster on. I would take the knife out. You know, you always treat the underlying cause. And it somehow is forgotten because people underestimate the power of hormones or changing hormones, especially in the brain. And then women are just gaslit the whole time. And then if you go and see one or two doctors and they say, there's nothing wrong with you, then who do you talk to?

Yeah. Who do you ask for advice? You feel so unseen. And we know that, you know, in motherhood, the leading cause of maternal death is suicide. Like, this is the fact of it. We know that women really struggle during that time. And yet, even the stuff you're talking about here, how amazing would that be if that was part of antinatal classes, that education? It should be, I mean, I really worry about postnatal depression and suicide after because people, especially when they're given birth, are more likely to be taking their life than any.

other time. Why do you think that is? They often have such extreme symptoms. They've gone from being fine to know very quickly. And they're young, they're clever. I'm sure you've spoken to a lot of people. It's like night and day. In perimenopause, you know, you get some fluctuations, you get good days, bad days. It's sort of a bit more drawn out. This is like falling off a cliff for a lot of people. But then if you go back to basic physiology, levels of eustodial and progesterone are way up. And then they just drop overnight. And so we've known, and as I was saying to you before we start recording, there's a doctor called Katrina Dalton,

who in the 1950s and 60s would treat women with postnatal depression and postnatal psychosis with progesterone, sometimes Easteran as well. She helped thousands of women. Yet it's been ignored because it was to become a psychiatric condition. 85,000 women a year in the UK have postnatal depression, and the vast majority will be given antidepressants. not hormones, whereas it's a hormonal condition. So, you know, back then it worked and it still should work now,

but people are not thinking about it. And I spoke to a professor of psychiatry a few weeks ago who somebody said, oh, speak to him because he's a leading person in postnatal psychosis and depression, but he's just retired. So when I spoke to him, he says, well, Louise, nothing really works postnatal depression and psychosis, none of the drugs, which doesn't surprise me because they're antipsychotics, the antidepressants, the lithium, the electroconvulsive therapy, might help short term, but they're not treating the underlying cause. So I said to him, well, what did you do then?

He said, oh, we would just put people to bed and wait. I said, what would you wait for? He said, I'd wait. And then their periods came and then they'd always get better. So I said, but didn't you ever think about hormones? He said, oh, that's a very good point. So it's not rocket science, you know. It's almost the basics of, you know, when I talk about this a lot, that when I was in the psychiatric hospital, you know, and I laugh about this now. And if anyone understands a psychiatric hospital, they might laugh too. You know, every morning they were trying to wake me up to do activities. And I was like, I just want to, I just want to sleep. Yeah. I just want to lay here and watch Netflix. And I, like, felt that I was getting better by doing that. It's like I was getting

my energy back. I was, you know, knowing now that I'm more divergent, all of the sensory overload was gone. Yeah. I was actually instinctively getting myself better. But they were, you know, knowing, were looking at me going, she's not getting out of bed, she's getting worse. And I was like, actually, I think I just need a lot of rest, a lot of care, and a bit of someone helping me feel seen on what's going on here. Yeah. And that's one of the problems in medicine, especially when it comes to psychiatric diagnosis, it's often a tick box. You know, do you have low mood? Do you have poor sleep? Do you have reduced appetite? Tick, tick. Or she's probably depressed. Whereas actually, let's look at the bigger picture. And for every mother, they pour sleep because they're making.

Because they do. Because they do. But it's, it's, you know, I think women get it and they often know they've got a hormonal problem, but they've not been allowed to express it or they've not been allowed to have any hormone treatment to try and see if it helps. And, you know, often we try hormones. If they don't help, well, then we haven't lost anything because they're just a natural hormone. But usually, and that's why I love my clinical job, because people are transformed. And but the sad thing is they say, I wish I'd tried it before. I'd wish I'd had it before, you know. Oh my goodness. I'm totally coming to your clinic. Take me, help me. Because it just, it just makes sense to me what you're saying. And maybe it's because all of the other stuff that I've been told doesn't make sense and isn't helping me. But the logic of what you're saying makes sense. Yeah, it is. Like I say, it's very simplistic, but it's so simplistic. It doesn't have big pharma behind it. It doesn't, it's not new drugs. These are hormones that we've known for nearly 100 years. So it's very simplistic. But something. it's the simple things that are the most effective because then when your hormones are balanced,

it's easier to sleep, it's easier to exercise, it's easier to just function. And all of that else, you know, everything else sort of fits in and works better for not just you, but your family as well. It's really interesting. If you could change how like mothers are supported in that like pregnancy and postnatal, what element of what would you change to help that? As you say, it is literally like you're jumping off a cliff. It's very intense. It's just that education. And I feel really embarrassed. For me, it's so obvious.

And now you know it, it's really obvious. But, you know, my children are 23, 21 and 15. And each pregnancy, I knew nothing about this. And so they're all saying, well, you'll get the baby blues day five when your milk comes in. You'll have some night sweats if you're breastfeeding. First time you have sex, we're really painful. Like, no one said to me, this will be because you've got low hormones. So if someone even just said those few words to me.

The why? Like why? Then when I was having all those symptoms, I could have just said, hang on, can I just have a bit of hormones? Because even if you're breastfeeding, you can still have natural hormones. Because, you know, for some women, they take longer than others for the hormones to come back. You know, some people have a period three weeks after giving birth. Some of us, it's months after. So of course our hormones are going to come back at different times.

If someone had just said to me, this is driven by your hormones, then my next question would have been, could I try some hormones? Yeah, or even if you didn't know to ask for that, well, what's the solution then? Yeah, precisely. Precisely. So we just, but I think a lot of education is coming from the women. The change will come from women because it's so obvious and it's so, it's so low risk. It just, it seems ridiculous that women are need to see suffering. And that's why I feel so sad with my work because I see and hear it all the time. And I think, well, life's hard enough, isn't it? But it's harder when you don't have your hormones.

But I think our generation of women are brilliant. because I think we're the generation that are like, wait a minute. Yeah, totally. This is too hard. I'm not taking that. That's a cop out. It's not helping me.

I don't feel seen. And I think, you know, I look at my mum's generation and I think they were maybe too afraid to challenge if it was a doctor or someone else to challenge and say, actually, this isn't working. Can we try something else?

Whereas our generation is a bit more like, this isn't making sense to me. Something has to change. And that is so important. And that is the only way for future generations, they don't have to put up with this, they can get listened to, they can get believed, they can get the treatment they want. So it's great, your work, you need to keep going.

But three tips before you end, I always ask for three take-home tips. A lot of your work is about advocacy and people learning for themselves and standing up for themselves as well. So what are the three things that you would recommend for people, especially if they've recently had a baby, they're in that time where everyone's saying, oh, you will be like this because you've had a baby and they know something else is going on. What are the three things that you would say they should do?

Oh, the first thing is if you're feeling it, it's real and valid. Yeah. It's almost like if you put your hand into boiling water, you wouldn't question, why is this burning me? But Mary down the road has hotter water. Like, if you're feeling it, it's real, it's valid, it does not need to be justified. I think ask for support and do not stop asking until you get the answers. And the third one is probably very basic, but, you know, give yourself the compassion that this is actually hard.

But it is a temporary chapter in your life. And that can also be very frustrating to hear when you're really struggling. That thing of this, this won't last forever. But actually, looking back now when I was deeply struggling with my mental health, if someone had said, this is actually temporary. It's really hard. It's horrible. But actually there's there's a chapter in your life that is going to be even bad. better. So you just have to keep going through it. Absolutely. And seeking them help, support and

treatment is the most important thing. And thinking about hormones, of course. Well, thank you so much for your time. It's been really good. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was really interesting. Great. Thank you. So just a quick one. It would be really great if you could follow or subscribe to this podcast. This will really help me reach more people with evidence-based information about hormones and their future health and also means you never miss a future episode. Thank you.