The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - Bonus: Menopause at 10 years old

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

In this episode, Dr Louise Newson is joined by therapist SaraWitter who shares her deeply personal and shocking experience of being menopausal as a child. Sara describes how she lost most of her ovarian function at just 10 years old following surgery for large dermoid cysts, and the long-lasting impact this had on her physical and mental health. Despite years of symptoms including extreme fatigue, pain, heavy bleeding, mood changes andpostnatal psychosis, the role of hormones was repeatedly overlooked.This powerful conversation highlights the importance oflistening, thinking beyond textbook definitions and ensuring that women of all ages are given the knowledge and treatment they need.LET'S CONNECT  Subscribe here 👉 https://www.youtube.com/@menopause_doctor Website 👉 https://www.drlouisenewson.co.uk/Instagram👉   / @drlouisenewsonpodcast  Downloadbalance app 👉 / https://www.balance menopause.com/balance-app/ LinkedIn 👉     / https://www.linkedin.com/in/drlouisenewson/ TikTok 👉   / https://www.tiktok.com/@drlouisenewson Spotify 👉 https://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg  LEARN MORE Download my balance app 👉 https://www.balance-menopause.com/balance-app/Get tickets for my new theatre tour, Breaking the Cycle 👉 https://www.nlp-ltd.com/dr-louise-newson-breaking-the-cycle/

So Zara, we have been trying to arrange this podcast for a long time and I fully blame myself for having a busy diary. But I'm really excited for many reasons to have you on my podcast. First, because when we talk about menopause or actually if you Google menopause, I don't know if any of you listening have done this, it always comes up with a white-haired woman. And they're usually got a fan in their hand or they've got their head. Like on their hands and they're just like, oh, they're always at work somehow on a desk. And it just looks, yeah, can't cope. But they're all, and they're always white, you know, and Caucasian women.

But like, actually, women aren't all, we don't all look the same. But the other thing is, is if you say to someone menopause, right, what's the average age of menopause, they'll probably go 50. And when I say, oh, in some countries, especially in South Asia, for example, the average age of menopause is about 40, and people are quite shocked with that. But I've always said that no one is too young to be menopausal, and people still look a bit confused. And I used to say, every doctor needs to know about menopause, maybe not paediatricians. And then about eight years ago, I said, no, pediatricians need to know about menopause too. So just tell me how old you were when you became

menopausal, if you don't mind, Sarah. 10. 10. So I lost my right ovary at 10 and then I lost the majority of the left ovary at 11 due to dermoid. Very large, two very large dermoid cysts. The first one, 22 inches, the second one, I think it was around 10. So massive cysts. So just for those people that haven't heard of dermoid cysts, they're not cancer at all and they can grow, as you know, very big. So were you getting symptoms or discomfort? Oh, the pain, the pain. And that pain will never, ever leave me. So it was about a good chunk of a year. So from when I was nine, getting the pain. And my mum would take me back because it would always be after exercise.

And it would be, we just couldn't find the full pattern, but it was just always after exercise. And it would be a lot. It would be every few days. And my mom would take me to the doctor. And in the end, the doctor actually said, look, I think you might need to spend a bit more time with your daughter. This might be a case of...

He actually took me out the room, but as a hypervigilant child, I stood there like... Of course she does. And he said, this might be a case of crime wolf. And those, you know, those words... So you remember that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had a lot of therapy for those words because then that then told me, I'm not feeling this.

This is nothing. I have to ignore this. So I remember walking around my house, doubled up. And my mum saying, let's play Monopoly. Let's play Monopoly, me and you. And I'm like, so this was really extreme pain and the cis burst when we were on holiday. We were in Lanzarotti.

I remember, you know, I couldn't go to the toilet, I couldn't walk, and I remember having my eyesight really, really small, some cream in my eyes. And I couldn't actually lie on the sofa. So if my body touched, you'll know, as a doctor, if my body touched anything, so I would sort of up,

so nothing of my body could touch. and my mum was saying, it must be constipation, there must be, and my dad, it was my dad, he just looked at me and he said, we've got to get at a hospital, she's grey. And, you know, I just thank my dad for that because they said at the hospital, you know, there was probably about 12 hours left of life in me. I remember feeling like, just take it away.

So, yeah, that was extreme. It caused a lot of trauma. We then returned to the same GP, and he said, oh, you know, this doesn't happen unless you're seven, and up. The textbooks say, this said for 17-year-olds, 10-year-olds, don't get them. And I remember thinking, well, they do because they just had one. And then another one came, apparently they come in twins. They come as a pair. And that, again, you know, it wasn't explained. It wasn't told to me. But within about a year later, same pains, again on the left side,

not the right, same pains, the same being sick, straight away. I knew. And I said, paint me to the hospital, mum. By this. point I had a gynaecologist. I had a consultant who was doing some follow-up and he said, yeah, you've got, you've got another one. We're going to scan you and we'll remove it before it burst. And they removed it and just left. He was really wonderful, wonderful consultant and he was wonderful. He left. He said to my mom, I'm going to leave as much of that ovary as I can. So he left a little bit. My symptoms after that were extremely heavy menstruation and painful, extremely heavy and then was diagnosed with endometrosis and ademiosis, the really heavy.

I didn't know myiosis, yeah. Yeah. So did they put you on the, did they put you on any hormones after removing most of your ovaries? No. And was told, everything will be all right now. You'd be okay now because this is not going to happen again. I did have another cyst after but it was just a ovarian cyst. It wasn't the derminal.

And so that was a move when I was, I think, about 13. And then I did carry out. I've just had issues ever, ever since. 19 was tested for my fertility. And he put me through for IVF at 19. Yes. It passed. It passed medically because it was a medical reason for being.

But by the time it came through, I was 21 with the waiting list. I was just grateful to be alive at that point. However, I was like, experiencing mood swings, sleeping at my desk at school, how I got good Jesus is just determination. So what were your main symptoms when you're at school then? Oh, the extreme fatigue, extreme. I just remember, I couldn't, you know, I was getting told off all the time for sleeping at the desk. You know, no one's looking into this. Why is sleeping? Just wake up, you know.

I just remember feeling as well. So different to everyone else. So much old. I mean, I just went for a lot of trauma, you know, I woke up in that operation as well, so there was a lot of different things. But I just remember feeling so different and didn't know why, just didn't understand. The pains, the period was so heavy, which I now know was because my body was going into menopause. I didn't know that then. So I was told, well, you're bleeding, brilliant. This is brilliant. This is fantastic for you.

So people didn't then think, which lots of people do know, if people are having periods, right? then their hormones are normal, which is not true at all. And did you have any physical symptoms? So symptoms such as skin changes or? Pain's, pain. Mine was pain and mine is materialised into pain. So pain, whereabouts? All my joints.

Okay. So, yeah, mainly back. Now it's kind of everywhere. HOT helps me with that. But then it was back, legs. I really struggled doing, I'd wanted to take dance. really struggled with it. I'd just be fatigued. But still just thinking it's me. Something must be wrong with me. It must be me. I must be making this up again, you know. I'm not,

you know, I'd be trying to eat everything that I'd research myself because I did a lot of that. But still never, ever knowing it's connected to your hormones because I'm bleeding. And I was bleeding every, sometimes every two weeks as well. Okay. So you're at school. So I'm By branding by people who are producing hormones. So you're getting mental health symptoms, but you're blaming it on trauma and things that you've experienced before. You're getting muscle and joint pains. You're getting fatigue.

And did you ever see any doctors, or did you talk to anyone about your symptoms? I think the questions were ever really asked. So that's where I feel like, how do we talk about something if it's not illicit. Yeah. Where would a child know? Where to follow?

So I remember speaking to my consultant gynaecologist a lot. I loved him because in my mind, you know, he saved by him. Yeah, of course. And I remember telling him I still don't feel great. And it was very much dismissed as mental health. So on my record, there is anxiety and depression. Without a doubt, I've had that. Well, of course.

But did he, he didn't talk to you about having hormones at all. No. He said PMDD. Okay, which is premenced or dysphoric disorder. So again, that is related to hormones. And, you know, a lot of people have just enough hormones for periods, but not enough for the brain, the body, everything else as well. And when hormone levels dip, which they usually do before a period,

then a lot of symptoms can really manifest and can be severe in women with PMDD. Yes. And they did become severe, really severe. I would remember sitting on my hands because I would feel like I'm going to hurt myself. So I would sit on my hands with extremely. frustration. And they did treat me with Zolodex. So Zonodex blocks hormones completely because sometimes people, well, wrongly and rightly,

think that PMDD is related to changing hormone levels, which indeed it is, but blocking hormones is not always the right thing. So what happened when you, how old were you when you had Zonidex? Cognitive memory isn't fantastic. So I had had the twins. So I had the twins when I was 23 through IVF. And another thing as well, just to step aside to that. When I had IVF, I was given a lot of hormones, right, to keep us pregnancy.

And the two hospitals didn't correlate with each other. So I'm treated at an IVF hospital and then I'm here at my local hospital. I'd had all these hormones fantastically pumped through me to hold this beautiful twin pregnancy. And then I give birth six weeks early and then no hormones, no follow up. So I then had the postnatal psychosis, which I really believe is because you took my hormones here where I probably needed some great amount, probably higher than what, you know, I probably needed for me. But, you know, I was very, very sick and I believe that's because I had extra or eustrogen. I don't know if that's right. And then the crash of those hormones I now feel.

I didn't know then. I thought, I'm crazy again, you know, this is me. That's very scary. Yeah. So sorry, I totally sidestepped your question. What did you ask me for? No, it's not side of what we were talking about, Zoddix, but this is very relevant because when people are pregnant, they have higher levels of hormones in their body and when you have IVF, obviously you're given hormones, but usually natural hormones, especially progesterone. But what's interesting is that people feel sick, so people with hyperamysis, but people with sickness

throughout their pregnancy often don't have enough progesterone. So it's interesting. It's, you're It's very unusual to have too much estrogen because levels of eustodin in our body go up to like 55,000 and really high when we're pregnant. And most people feel really great when they're pregnant. But it's not just the oestrade, it's the progesterone. A lot of people don't have enough progesterone. And we were talking a bit about progesterone before we recorded because there's this sort of complete misunderstanding that progesterone is just a little hormone to help the womb and help with periods. Progesterone is the master of all hormones. and it forms the other hormones as well.

So it forms testosterone. Testosterone forms eustodial. But progesterone also forms cortisone and cortisol, which cortisol, as many people know, is our stress hormone. And cortisone is our anti-inflammatory hormone, if you like. So when people have low progesterone, they often have more stress, as in emotional stress in their body, but they also have more inflammation in their body as well.

So having progesterone actually helps reduce stress. Got a cat's tail on in my screen here. It helps reduce stress, but it also helps reduce inflammation. But you're right, when people have given birth, the levels of all hormones, Easterdale progesterone and testosterone actually fall off a cliff. And postnatal depression, postnatal psychosis is associated with a hormonal drop. And many people have known for decades that giving back hormones especially progesterone can make a massive difference for women with postnatal psychosis and postnatal depression.

But I'm going to ask you now, and I probably can guess the answer, were you given hormones when you have postnatal psychosis? No, I was given anti-anxia. Yeah. I begged. It was it, yeah, I begged for something. Yeah. So I was talking to a psychiatrist recently about postnatal depression and suffering.

psychosis and said, why is it that we're not giving hormones? Because it makes sense. We all know that there's a big hormone or shifts. And we've known since the 60s and 70s that women respond to natural hormones, yet it's not in the guidelines. And he's now retired. But he said, oh, yes, Louise, I used to run a mother and baby unit, we'd see a lot of these women and would literally put them to bed in the mother and baby unit and we'd have to wait. And I said, but wait for what? He said, well, they'd always get better with time, but would wait for their periods to return. And then they'd be better. I said, okay, doesn't that tell you something then? Doesn't that tell you something? But for some women, their periods might never return or it might take a long time for periods to return.

So why can't we just supplement these women with natural hormones? Like it doesn't make sense. So, you know, you've been known to have low hormones pretty much your whole life since having those cysts removed. Yet somehow the obvious thing is not being given to you. Right. And it was only really seeing you some years ago now on the television. You know, my mom would ring me, quick, quick, it's all about menopause and early menopause. And it was just so exciting, you know, and just it was that that made me realize I need to look further into this. I need to speak up. I need to say, this is not, you know, I've managed, I'm managing my emotions, my moods, my thing, I'm doing that. I've lots of therapy. You know, I'm a therapist myself. I'm doing it.

But something's not, where something's not right. And I know once I started to attune myself and, you know, your book, your balance at, you know, your information, once I started to really educate myself, that's when I realized. And I would go in armed to the consultant, you know, have a new one now. And I would say, but I've found this out. And they don't always like that. Okay. However, I think that's, if that's, if I'm not being educated by my health, you know,

the health system that my health advisors that I'm going to, then I'm going to have to educate myself and sometimes educate them. Yeah. And that's what's happening a lot, actually. And I feel really embarrassed to say this, and I have shared it publicly before, but I wasn't taught about menopause when I was an undergraduate or postgraduate. And I wasn't taught about menopause in younger women.

What I was taught that if women don't have their periods, just make sure they're not pregnant, Louise, and then reassure them. That was what I was taught. So as a junior, GP, I'd see people in their 20s and 30s who were worried they had not had periods, they were low in their mood, they might have had other symptoms. I didn't ask about all the symptoms, so I couldn't even tell you how many symptoms they had. But I used to say, well, if you're definitely not pregnant, don't worry about it. And like, why was I not even thinking about the role

of hormones, but you know, you don't know what you're not taught? But if someone then said to me, I've got all these symptoms because I've done a symptom questionnaire, and I'm worried that I don't have hormones in my body, which is increasing my risk of osteoporosis and heart disease and other inflammatory conditions, I would like some hormones. But the other thing I always sometimes did if women wanted a period is they'll say, oh, I'll just give you the pill and then you can have a period. I mean, that's not even natural hormones and the period is just a withdrawal bleed. It's not. So I don't know, were you given the contraceptive pill at all? As you said that then, it triggered my memory, yeah, about 13. It was my brother, actually.

My brother moved over to America and I think just being over there, he's seven years older. He was in full. He learned a lot. And this had really affected him what happened to me. I'm sure. So he moved at the same time. So when I was 10, he'd moved over there. And his partner had really looked into things for me. And he rang my mom and said, you're going to have to preserve her eggs.

That was the main thing. Preserve those eggs for that baby. So I was put on the pill, but it just didn't agree with me. I would bleed all the time. And I would be told, well, it's the wrong pill for you then. And then I'd be on another pill and I'd be so angry and, you know, real rage and, you know, really not feeling good to the point where I just would stop taking it. You know, I didn't feel right. No. And so the pill is obviously synthetic chemical hormones and so it can increase inflammation in the body.

But also it can block our own hormones working so any little bits of hormones that you had left are often blocked by the effects of the pill. And a lot of people don't realise that. And it's really important that people do understand that it's not the same. And also the contraceptive pill will block testosterone in our body, which is also a really important hormone. So, you know that. This is such an education for me. So, so you're now using some HRT.

It's not been fully optimized. And you were saying that it's a struggle to talk to someone about testosterone. It really is. I'm told, you know, it's not licensed, therefore you don't need it. This is not, you're on estrogen and progesterone. That's the deal. So isn't it interesting that we know that about half of our testosterone is made in our ovaries. So for you only having a small amount of one ovary left, you're not going to have the same testosterone as other people in their 30s.

If I had taken out, I'm not a surgeon, but if I was a surgeon and I took out some of your thyroid gland and left a tiny bit left, There would be no problem about having a thyroid hormone to replace. Like it just makes sense, doesn't it? Or if I took out most of your pancreas, of course we'd be talking about insulin and the digestive enzymes and how important they are. It feels really controlling by doctors to be saying you can't have a natural hormone in your 30s. Yeah, absolutely. I don't really get it.

And actually, the last scan that I had showed that my ovary had been swallowed up. This was the word. It's been swallowed up. That's a nice way of Purdue. It's gone into the ether of my body. It's had a cyst over it, apparently, and it's gone. We can't locate it now. There is nothing now.

So that then says to me, well, then there's nothing. So it's really important. So you're 37 currently. Yeah. So it's really important. So about one in 30 women under the age of 40 have an early menopause. Now, it used to say, they used to say one in. and 100, but now it's one in 30.

Basically, they don't know, but they know it's very common. So one in 30 of all women under the age of 40 have menopause. Yet most of those women will not have access to hormones, and if they do, it might not be the right dose and type, and certainly probably not testosterone. Yet we know these hormones have really important biological actions in the body, and every single cell responds to those hormones. And we've known for decades that women who have an early menopause

have an increased risk of diseases if they're not having hormones. Now, our government has just announced recently that women over the age of 40 as part of their health check will be asked questions about menopause, which half of me is saying, oh, that's good. But the other half of me is like, so age 37, if I was your GP, doesn't matter, does it? I mean, I don't know how that makes you feel. Yeah, it's quite shocking because, you know, for me, this has been going on, like you say, for most of my life. And over 40, what about the rest of us? What about those that are having early menopause from the age of 10 onwards from teenage?

You know, I have a best friend. We met wonderfully through our IVF children. How wonderful is that? Both of us when we got chatting. Both early menopause, different reasons. For her, just unexplained. So this is what people will find a lot. She was 17.

They just stopped. Never been explained to her. This has nothing has ever been explained. So what happens to these people? I have people that come into my practice. I have women, beautiful women who have no idea about their hormones. It is not even in their, it's not in their peripheral vision at all. And I'll ask them, you know, how's your cycle?

Where is your cycle? Where are you with it? Oh, no, that's, you know, that's nothing to do with it. And I'm informed now. So I'm always going to have that lens of, okay, well, let's just be mindful of a cycle, any cycle, no, you know, where, where else. Absolutely. How is it impacting? informing. So the thought that it's just for over 40. Yeah, I mean, I feel really sad for women that

are missing out all the time. And my work is about trying to reach all women. And with technology, like you say, with balance that, I can reach all women if I get it right. So a few years ago, I was part of an NHS National Menopause group, which has since sadly disbanded. But I said to them at one of the first meetings, you're talking a lot about women over the age of 50 and talking about Menopause 51, average age in the UK. I said in my mind, if I was allocating resources, I would focus on women under the age of 40 because these women have more health risks

of not having the right treatment. They're more suffering. Even if you look at an economy, they're going to put more drain on the NHS and healthcare resources, but they're also going to be less likely to work because we know if you've got symptoms, you're less likely to work and main symptoms.

are anxiety, fatigue and memory problems. So younger people are less likely to have that earning potential, if you see what I mean. And they said, oh, but it's not common enough. And I said, but hang on, one in 30, is far more common than most other conditions that we have guidelines on, we're prioritising. So that doesn't really make sense.

But I'm always seen as a pain for a lot of these meetings because I'm quite outspoken. And the focus has always been on symptoms, not health risks. And the two go hand in hand often. But even if people don't have symptoms, we know that there are these health risks as well. So I'm with you there.

I feel like it's not, we shouldn't be just thinking about menopause, but also, if we think just about menopause, we're not thinking about perimenopause, you know, around the time when people serve periods. We're also not thinking about women with PMDD, which often have more severe symptoms. So that doesn't make sense either really in my mind.

No, it's really bracketed it. And I think of it like a spider, you know, you have that early menopause or perimenopause, wherever we are, and then the legs off that, you know, the connective tissue disease, which I have, the PM, you know, all the different aspects of obesity. You know, I gained lots and lots of weight, which I know now is that my hormones were so out of balance when I really carried any. I gained a lot of weight, you know, I pain.

I had a lot of pain when I wasn't taking the hormones. So much pain. Mood, you know. So it's like, it's all these legs that come off that, we're not just treating one thing. It's everything that comes off that, that we can really help. Absolutely. My concern is if we focus too much on periods,

we're forgetting the person behind that womb. And, you know, I'm sure you'd agree as a woman. more than just whether we have periods or not. They're an inconvenience. Don't get me wrong. But actually, this is where we have to think about hormones throughout ourselves, our organs, our tissues, our bodies as well. But for me, the most important thing is about choice. You know, having a choice about which path you're taking, what you're taking,

the medication you're taking, any benefits and risks is really, really crucial. And because people have got so confused in the past about hormones and what they are, It's ironic, isn't it? You were given the contraceptive pill, which contains, as I've already said, synthetic chemicals. If you look at the dose equivalent, the dose of ethanol eustodil, which is the synthetic estrogen and contraception, is like 300 times higher than eustodial, which is what we prescribe in HRT. So even if you need a higher dose of your transdermal eustodial gel, it's never going to reach the levels of ethanol eustodal, but it's also never going to block the receptors. it's never going to have detrimental effects and risks of cancer and stroke and heart disease. They're only small risks, but they're associated with synthetic hormones. So it's sort of like we live in a parallel world and I can't quite understand.

Yeah, there's double standards really out there. And I remember feeling of pain. You know, you mentioned before, you know, you feel that as you're speaking out, you're the voice now. I mean, I see you as a voice for this, you know, a hormone voice. And please speak louder. Please be that pain in the room, please, because we need, we need you for that. But I really felt like I was a pain. Every time I went back to a consultant, not the first one, the second.

The first one was absolutely wonderful. And sadly got poorly when I was pregnant with the twins. And I really believed that things would have been very different for me if he hadn't. It's just unfortunate. But the next one, great, great consultant made me feel like a pain, like a pest. You know, you're back. Have these not helped? Have they not?

This, this, what do you want to try now? I want you to help me. I really need. Feel better. I'm young. And at this point, I'm 25. Yeah, maybe even younger because I just had the twins. And it was constant bleeding.

I remember being on holiday. And I rang the secretary from holiday. Because I just decided, like, I'm speaking up for me. And that's it. The 10-year-old in me is like, speak. And I rang. and I said, I'm on holiday, the first holiday with my children, so they would have been one. I said, I'm bleeding.

And I've been bleeding for 12 weeks. I need this to stop. And I think that was where the Zolodex came from. Because that's then, you know, it's almost like, like, shut up. Yeah. Let's go away and stop. And they did give me a patch, estrogen patch. I think it was just estrogen.

I don't think I had a gesturing part. I think it was just an estrogen patch to have during the Zolodex month. that then put me into, further into the menopause, because it was already, I know it was already there, but it did, it threw me right into it. And now, no, what I needed was just... Just your natural hormones. It's very simplistic.

It really is, but it can make a huge difference to people. So I'm very grateful for RF you to be so open about your story. And I really hope this is educated people, may be shocked and surprised them, that someone as early as 10 can have menopause, people at school can have menopaus or symptoms. It's not common, but it's not rare. So we need to be aware, we need to be talking about it more

and thinking about it more for everybody. So before I end, just three quick take-him tips. So three things that if you think that either you, yourself, young, struggling with symptoms, or you've got someone you know, it might be a child, it might be a relative, it might be just someone that you know. What three things do you think we should be doing to help people who are young,

early menopause. I think asking the right questions, listening. Listen. Don't just assume. Don't just go off the text, but really listen. Really think out the box. Think out of the box. Think what could be. Don't think what has been before. Think what might be, you know. I was told 17-year-olds have these and I was 10. So think. Speak, you know, I'm really big for a voice for the woman but also the man. So dads, brothers, husbands. No. about hormones. Let's get everybody educated on on the body, not just what they do for, you know, they wanted to preserve my eggs so I could have children.

What about my brain health, my heart health, my bone health, most everything, my mental health. Let's really educate everyone about it. It's school at the ancient sex education. It's so much more than this than what they learn. You know, I ask my daughter, what do they tell you about hormones? They have a period. Yeah. What do you mean? Let's educate. cup, you know, learn, everything.

Really good. So the most important thing is to educate so we can help and also help others too. And this conversation will really have helped people already. So I'm very grateful for you coming on today. And thank you so much for sharing it. Thank you. Thank you.