The Dumb Zone FREE - Business Wednesday - John Thornton Jr.

Episode Date: July 30, 2026

On today’s Business Wednesday, Jake is joined by John Thornton Jr.Thornton Jr. is the executive director of HELD, an organization based in Greensboro, N.C. that helps people in poverty get out of it by giving them money. He arrived at this approach after spending years in the ministry, learning what works by doing it.He’s also a standup comedian who has opened for Nate Bargatze and James Austin Johnson, among others, and uses his comedy to help raise funds for the organization.If you’re interested, give to HELD here. Go Cowboys. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

All right, welcome into a business Wednesday with my friend. I'm proud to call him that. John Thornton, Jr. He is the executive director and founder of the organization held. John, thank you for joining us. What's up, man? Thanks for having me. Super interested in your life, your career, your vibe, all of it.

So you are from the DFW area. You have a background in seminary. You have a background in stand-up comedy, and you currently are working, I guess, in the poverty sector. Very interesting life. And I'm just, I'm proud to get to talk to you and hear your whole bit. What's your bit? Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm your stereotypical former Baptist minister, Democratic socialist stand-up comic.

You know. Yeah. A dime does it. A story we've all heard. But yeah, those are those are kind of my deals. I grew up in grapevine. I went to grapevine faith Christian school. I was in the inaugural seventh grade class there.

Wow. And graduated from there. I went to Colley to Lahara. I was homeschooled until sixth grade. And then I told my parents I would like to see the world. And they enrolled me in private Christian school. And that's the most world I've ever seen. A grapevine faith Christian.

Yeah. So grew up there and then I started doing stand-up comedy. After college, I went to Baylor University, just kept rolling with the private Christian school. What were you intended to get into seminary, theology, something like that out of high school? No, my first semester at Baylor, I studied business. And then I took a religion class.

And it was like a doctoral student named Jason Patrick. who was teaching the class and I was just like, oh, this is what I like reading and thinking about. And I don't know what I find. I'm spending my time learning all this stuff anyways. And I've always, I'm in your personal life. Yeah, yeah. Like I've always been a pretty big reader,

which probably I convey just by my whole vibe. And so I decided to study that. And then after college, I moved to Nashville just kind of on a whim. sister that lived there. I'd been to visit a few times. It was like, oh, it was a cool. And this was like, imagine a lot of your like listeners, people watching are Texas people. This was like, this was about the same era that like Austin was cool. Like Austin, like cool, like contained cool. Like Nashville. 17? Yeah. Oh, no, no. Oh, no. This is like 2012. Like, oh, cool. I mean, like people didn't know it. Like if you went, you were like, oh, this is a really cool city.

Nashville was that way. Nashville was always like Austin small, you know, centered around the music industry, and then it was actually like really cheap. And so I moved out there after I graduated from college in 2000. What's that? You ever meet Jay Cutler? Jay Cutler? I don't, I think he had been, I think he'd been at Vandy like right before.

They moved back. Oh, that's not right. That's what I know of Nashville. Yeah. So that makes sense contextually. Side note, very funny path. I mean, you know it, but faith to Baylor, and it's like, what city is kind of Baylor?

Like, if there could be a big city. Like, it's fun, you know, but it's not get crazy here. Let's not get too. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, it was my, you know, move out of, you know, I grew up in Dallas, go to Baylor. I'm like, I want to get out and, again, see the world. And natural is the most the world, like where I grew up.

I'd ask you a quick question about your childhood before you got to the class in sophomore, junior year of college. Growing up at faith and as like as a kid, what sort of religious for, I mean, you were in it, but like were you like really on fire? You were on fire for church camp every year, that sort of thing? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes.

Yeah. So my dad was a minister. It was like evangelical, you know, I mean, you know how church. is that what's crazy is like the church I grew up at, I was recently telling someone here in North Carolina that like my youth group was like 600 kids or something. Damn. Which was big, but like, you know, I'm going to school with kids that are going to like fellowship church, you know, it's like a, it's just a different scale like in Texas.

You mean at school? No, no, I mean like at church. Yeah, yeah. Like seven six through 12. Yeah, it was like 100 something kids per class, I guess basically. Yeah. Six through 12. That's six or 12.

We might have had half that. Maybe. Okay, yeah. I thought like it was big. I mean, that is, like, for churches in North Carolina, like, that is huge. And that's what I tell people, like, I saw on someone here and she was just like, oh, my God, that's massive. And I was like, football.

Football stadium is. It is big. Totally. Yeah. It is like, it is big. But, like, it didn't feel like that would be the biggest youth group in a lot of these, like, in any city in North Carolina, basically. And I was like, oh, yeah, we were kind of one of, even the fact that you're like, like we had half that like that would be a massive yeah so i mean and that was like you know

this is night the late 90s early aughts where like church attendance evangelicalism particularly in dallas is just like just in the water yeah i mean it was just like it was just the world it was no no i'm saying it was on the way up i mean it was like yeah yeah that's what i remember that because that's the wave i caught that's that's yeah yeah so the reason i wanted to ask that is just to say like as you're growing up did you you're interested you're passionate about your faith, but did you imagine yourself doing it professionally in some regard? At that time. Did you look at your dad and think like, that's what I want to do? Kind of. I mean, like, it always, it was, I look back on it now and see, like, I was trying

to hold a lot of things that I loved together. And church was kind of the container that I had for it, both, like, intellectually and just, it's like where all my friends were. It was just, and it was so, church camp was so fun. It's like, get to go hang out with all your friends. I mean, there's all the weird, like,

religious stuff about it. But, like, it's also just like, I don't know, you get to have fun. And I had, like, a cool, a really great,

like our small group leader was this guy, Murray Newton who like, yeah, would just call, we would, you know, 10 to 15 guys in this group.

And he would call us, like, every Friday or Saturday night and just be like, hey, how are you doing? And, like, just check in on people.

And, like, you know, I had great parents. they were there for me. But there was a lot of kids that like having an adult who just like reaches out and is just interested in like how your life is going is like really. I mean, it really was like meaning and he meant a lot to several of the guys in that group. So yeah, so like I guess I my dad is very funny, very good speaking. So like I there were a lot of elements to it that I was like so you've got like an intellectual side right. You're like you can read. There's

theology, there's the Bible, there's thinking. Processing. Yeah, yeah, there's like an intellectual framework. There's like people to be around. And then, yeah, and then like all this side of like getting to do held and of my current job, but working with people that are homeless and poverty. So like the summer after my senior year of high school, I did an internship at a church. Like I lived in Boston for like two months. And like did an internship at this church in Dorchester, Massachusetts, which is

like right on the border. It was like right on the border of South E. Like we're Goodwill hunting. I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. Dude, I love the town. Oh my God. I love the town so much. Oh, it's amazing.

And so, and this was like, I now bet that that area is like so completely gentrified. But in 2005, like, you know, there's four or five of us in turning at this. It's just a little, it's a neighbor. It's a church that started as a food pantry that a couple of the like elder women and that black women in this neighborhood, all black neighborhood, like put together as food pantry,

like start collecting items, get this garage, start the garage. And then the garage, they start a Bible study and the Bible study becomes a church. And so, you know, like that was, there was always something about like, I'm prone to sort of extremes. And just like, and so I was like, well, if I want to go do this, I'm just going to go do it. And like, I want to be in the middle of like whatever these people's situation is. And for some reason, poverty and money like has always, it has always distressed me. And I'm like, I'm not a particularly empathetic person, but it does, it does bother me in a way that I feel an obligation to do something about.

And so that was like a big deal. I went to that in lieu of doing like an internship at the Christian camp that I grew up going to. They had like a like before you go to college, you know, kind of transitional internship. I recently talked to a buddy about that whose kids do it. It's maybe an hill country area. What's a big one? Pine Cove out in Tyler is the one that I went to. There's a couple around.

and I mean, just Canacock out in Missouri. It seemed really cool. I'd never, like, there was like a leadership element to, like, going to the next level of it. Yeah. So I want to keep going with that. One thing I will say, though, because I, you know, I don't really talk about this, like, that much. I assume a lot of people listening know a lot about me from the past. But, you know, I grew up, you know, I was in church for probably like a decade or so.

Yeah. And at the end of it, just didn't like it. But when you mentioned, like, having an adult male who is concerned and not like in a negative connotation, but simply, you know, wrapping their arms around you, like, over the phone. Yeah. There's just no context in society outside of church. And even in church, people are suspicious probably. Yeah. And like it just feels so it's weird because like something that I think about a lot, do you listen to TC and myself talk? Yeah, yeah.

I think like obviously technology and our biology are not like totally on the same page here. And like you're not supposed to know about how many people died under Mao or you're not supposed to be getting online debate. You have no context for that. And I just think the way that culture is with whether it's, you know, the, the, the, the stranger danger of the 80s or 90s, like I feel weird like caring about the girls on my daughter's soccer team. They're her friends. They're here.

And I feel weird being like, hey, I want to tell you something. I think it's cool that you're doing like because it's not my kid. And that's why I do like coaching. I think I'm good at that sort of thing. But we just don't have a mechanism for it outside of the temple that provides that. And it's that's one of the things that. I lament about that being a part of my life that I'm not really, and I guess I get that out of the show to an extent.

You get that out of like your 11th step or 12th step of carrying the message. But I do think about things that we're missing because of that. And it's really hard to replicate a facsimile of that without, you know, the organization of the church. Yeah. I mean, I actually, to that point, like my part of, you know, so like graduating from Baylor and the. I graduated in December of 2008.

So like as there's just like no jobs. Thankfully Waco, this was pre-Chip and Joanna Waco. So like I was able to like rented a room for like $150 a month. And wound up working my summer or during my senior year of college, I wound up mentoring a kid at an elementary school there in Waco. And Waco still, I mean like had, I mean, I guess anywhere. has like poverty but waco at the time in particular was like deeply impoverished and uh the bridge yep yeah yeah well and i think part of it was that like

there was really bad poverty in the same way there is everywhere but there wasn't like a whole lot else like that was part you know and so i started mentoring this kid and then wound up getting an americor job working at that elementary school and was just kind of like I was like tutor, mentor. They just like kind of threw me like I would sub in a class for a minute or just like, I got I was, I kind of loved it because it was like, I loved like working with the kids, doing all stuff.

You got to like do an after school program, but I didn't have to like grade or teach or I just got to be kind of like the fun guy around there. And then I wound up when I was in Nashville working, I was the director of a middle school after school program. And a lot of that was just like, oh yeah, it is, it is, there's something really meaningful about like,

like, you know, I was kind of back and forth in like an academic context with these kids, but also just getting to be like, oh, you matter. Like, and I'm, I don't really have to be here and I am and like want to treat you with respect and dignity and then also just like be there for whatever it is that you, that you need. And so, and it is, it is weird like that it does, like, it is strange that it like requires a context. I live in my neighborhood in Greensboro, North Carolina, where I'm like the first neighborhood right off downtown and have this really incredible group of friends that we all live. We all live in walking distance. It's like being back in college. And they're all like my age,

like late 30s, bit 40s. And then it's it's mostly married couples, a few couples that like get along now, but they all have kids and I'm like the fun uncle of the group. And I've watched like most of these kids like I've known since they were like zero and they're now like going into senior year. One of them's going into like junior senior year high school. And it's like yeah, it's just all and their parents are my best friends. Like it's just it's a very cool relationship that I now I, when I talk to other friends I have my age, it's like they're either single and so don't have anything like that.

in their life or they're married and it's like all yeah or they're married and have kids and live 35 minutes from their friends because they live in austin and and that's what i was going to say is that you know it's it's a somewhat of a modern day there's a book cows pigs wars and witches i reference it all the time because it's quick reading it just sort of explains you know some let's say religious or social traditions that you still carry today like why we're doing it right but I think obviously not like everybody in New York City is like great friends with their neighbor, but the degree to which religion is woven into the fabric of America, I think is very much a byproduct in some ways of sprawl, of just not being close enough to your neighbor to form.

So the church feels like a very necessary role because not, you know, the geography is isolating. And that's before you get to like the economic system, right? Totally. And so that to me is, you know, it's, it doesn't de-legitimize why it's happening. It's just that, you know, if you're in a neighborhood like that, you can be there for those kids without it, you know, needing, like you said, the context. So when you get to Nashville, your, was your first job, the after-school care? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, after-school proodium. What's that? Was it through a church or was it? No, it was like a Christian, it was like a Christian organization, but it was just like a neighborhood-based thing. And so I did that. That was like my first job. And I, and I, still reference back to like the executive director there was just like i there are still things that i do

now that i am the director of a nonprofit that i i just picked up from from watching him chan shepherd was just a cool dude and and it was i mean it you know it is like your first job out of college like i look back and i'm like what the hell was i doing like um and uh and so i did that and then that is also where i started doing stand-up comedy was while i was in in nashville spanky sports bar uh on nolinsville pike behind the Walmart was the first time I went up and did stand-up comedy. And just like really poured into it while I was at, like, I got to just like, I mean, it's fun. Like, I was talking to a buddy Andrew Stanley, who's a funny comic, also son of a pastor.

We were talking the other day and we were like, can you imagine? He's like 36, I'm 39. We're like, can you imagine? Like, you have to kind of be, to like really dive in to stand up. Like, you have to kind of be like in your early 20s like the way that like like the way like we dove into it like can't he's like I can't imagine if I went to my wife it was like hey I'm gonna like be gone uh until like two in the morning I'm gonna smell like cigarettes when I get back uh and I'm doing I'm gonna get four minutes of my time yeah but that was like every night for like I would go do the actual program drive over to the open mics and then very quickly myself and a couple other comics started doing our own like

DIY like booking we book a there's tons of concert venues and just hole in the wall places so we would just book places and put on our own shows and one of those is one of those guys who's still a very close friend of mine was is James Austin Johnson who is now Trump on on SNL yes I do I claim being a very OG, not as OG as OG as you, but I mean, I still think his best Trump stuff is the stuff nobody talks about. Yeah. Yeah.

The Lego set on January 6th, like it's January 6th. It is the afternoon in January and Trump went out to the Rose Garden and did this. This is the thing. There's too much, but he did the thing.

And then the James Austin Johnson, he's like, go home do not do don't do you can do karate and I'll get you 2999 Lego set

which could be two Lego sets of the same value sometimes that's better it's so fucking good because like the moment is so big and he went with like the silliest when he possibly could have but I was just going to say

you know I'm guilty of this and maybe less so now that I'm trying to write jokes a little bit more, but I have a hard time with a lot of clean comedy. Like there's just guys I go see and it's just it just doesn't work for me. Yeah, yeah. But like I laughed at your set. I laugh at Kenny Lee, who's in Dallas. I laugh at obviously.

Everybody wants to say like Nate, right? Right, right. There's just some Nate openers that I don't like love. I respect, but don't like. love the experience of listening to them to tell jokes. But I feel like there is, like I never even thought of him as one way or the other, right? But then when you hear him talk, it's very clear he grew up. Oh, yeah.

Because I think one thing you learn how to do, if you're, you learn, you're just better because you're, I think if you grow up in church, you learn how to not offend people. You learn how to talk like you, bless your heart, your message to like in a way that's like kind of veiled. but kind of not. It's, uh, I think, I think being involved in church, if you're into it, into it can help you a lot in the world of stand up and theater.

You know, you learn how to like navigate and, you know, I, uh, I just have like a default setting of guilt. So I'm trying not to, not to offend.

And that's, that's as much, I don't know where that. I'm still working on where that comes from. But, but, but yeah, I mean,

I don't, let me stop you. Yeah. Because it's, you said earlier, I'm not an empathetic person. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, maybe that's self-effacing.

I think I grew up very, and I was a guilty, I don't know, my mom was raised Catholic. I was not. Yeah. Just everything was about feeling, to me, felt like it was about feeling bad for the things that you had done. Yeah. But I don't, I think really for me, it was just, you know, you have these early memories of like kindergarten. And it was super apparent to me who in the class was poor. Yeah.

And in retrospect, like, we were not well off. We were a lot closer to poor than I thought at the time. But I knew, right? And I knew that those kids had a tougher time. And I knew that they seemed to have a harder time reading. And it just didn't take me very long to be like, fuck, I apparently got a really good start here. That's like my earliest memory. Yeah.

Is being like, damn, I feel somehow like I owe it to the universe in some way to try. to push for if you could just give the same level of effort that I've had, you'll have a good life. Yeah. And that just has been like, I know it sounds white guilty or it sounds, that's what people want to say is in a derogatory stance, but like, I don't know how to explain it other than I feel that I owe something. And when I'm not doing something to fill that, I feel guilty. and you can still live a healthy life where you can take your kids on vacation and whatever

but that to me is where like I emanate from so I certainly have not lived it like you have but I think that there's got to be a better word for it than guilt though yeah it's just fire in some ways that's yeah I well yeah so like I say that about like feeling guilty and that is just sort of like a default, just a default disposition for me. But like I, there is something I have always deeply felt out of place wherever I have been. And have been like, like I do not belong.

People are judging me or looking down on me, even though like, you know, I'm a six foot tall white guy. Like I've learned how to be good. at fitting in and performing in ways that like I fit in. I've gotten a lot more comfortable with all of that. But it meant that like and poverty just sticks out as someone who is like they do not belong in this space. Not that I think that or even other people are thinking that. But like I in my time in ministry, I was like kind of the default person when like someone would walk in the church clearly like off the streets or in distress.

economic, particularly like poor. And, and, like, when people, I found myself and you could kind of see it, like, with this move to Boston. And, like, when I, those kids I was, like, working with at, in Waco, we're talking, like, it was bad, like, bad. And I just didn't mind, like, going there or being there or, like, someone walks in. It's like, oh, someone's got to go tell this person, like, it is okay that you are here. And that was also my dad's role at the church.

Like he's got all sorts of stories of like when he was a minister. There was, I mean, he wasn't the like senior. Like there were obviously, it was a big church. There's a lot of ministers. And he, he, this woman, like, walked in the church and was like, front desk was like, I need some help. Like, I am a prostitute. I'm trying to get out of it. And if my pimp, basically my handler, like, finds out about it, like, he's going to kill me.

And so they're like, we'll call Charles to handle this situation. And they're like, send to my dad. My dad had done like, he would go with the police when they had to tell someone that like someone had died. You know, so he knew, so he calls over to the police like, here's a situation. They work with the woman. They find out she's got a sister in California. They get her a plane ticket. Police drive her to the airport, wait with her at the airport.

My dad knew a minister in the city where she was like. So the minister like she lands, picks her up, takes her to the, to like her sister. She later like connects the pimp to like several unsolved murders. It's like crazy, you know, and it's like that disposition. And so that is like, there is this sort of guilt, like that that's kind of my own, I don't know, thing. But there is something where I'm like, okay, like this person is in distress. Like this is just awful. You, like I talk to people all the time when they're like, what should I do if someone asks me for money on the street?

I'm like, first things first, like they don't want to be doing that either. Like they don't want to be in this situation. either. And that to me is always like, oh, this is someone who has been put into an impossible situation that is not of their choosing or whatever choosing they could do is kind of negligible to like not having the money that they need. And so that's partly like what I tell people with, at held, where my like my current job, we give people money who need it. It's unrestricted. And like, you know, we aren't guaranteeing success, but we are giving people options that they didn't have before and opportunities. Sorry, I didn't need to jump all that way. That's where we got to. Yeah. Yeah.

Did some time in Nashville. This is where you start to grow the comedy thing, which will come in handy later. Yeah. And then what's the in between Nashville after school program and held? Is there? Yeah, yeah. So this is kind of a fun story. So I did stand up for five years. A lot of that was in Nashville. we're like doing stuff with James Austin Johnson. So Nate, I got to know Nate when he would come back to town. That was the point I was making is that like I'm having a hard time because I'm very new. I do think I can write, I think. Yeah.

But it is, you know, I don't have an end. Right. I am, you know, I told the story on the show the day like in sketch class and stand up. They might as well just put a bull's eye on me and be like, don't try it, dude. Like, this guy's bye, you're not. This one, this is a lesbian. This woman. Oh.

Yeah. And I'm like, the Kenny was like, you're tall. I'm like, I'm not that tall. Like, I'm not tall enough. Like, I'm not tall enough. Not told him to be funny about it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're a somewhat bookish looking, but also be like you just have youth minister. Like people are going to come see you because you're like, hey, this guy's, he makes me laugh. Annie makes me feel good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a little bit of an end there. I was trying to get Justin Montemeyore last week. I was like, bro, let me just write it for you. I was like, you don't even have to actually stand up. We can just do this. Right, right. I'm dying over here.

Well, and some of that like, you're, I don't know. You're doing what you think is funny, but I bet pretty good when you realize, like, you know, there's a niche here. Like, there's a thing. Yeah, and I don't, I've only, probably, the last like year or so i've been working on like just being more comfortable on stage like i was so like i i don't know i love making people laugh i love jokes writing jokes and delivering them but being on stage always made me like deeply uncomfortable there's all this is a lot of contradictions going on here

so it's like it's hard to do stand up you're just kind of an ad d guy yeah you actually diagnosed that way but there's just a lot going on i've seen people on stage yeah well but like yeah yeah i have to slow down, but it's not because I'm like all over the place. It's because like I'm trying to like barrel through exactly what I'm trying to get through. And so conversations like this, I'm a little more, a little more freewheeling. But and I'm getting better. I'm getting better at that. But normally I go in and I'm just like, here's what I'm going to say. Here's I'm going to say it and just like knock it out. And so and that's how I would just say it. Like I would go up exactly with like everything prepared and sort of march through it. But then like if you tell like one joke and it doesn't get it like doesn't get a laugh or doesn't or doesn't even. doesn't do as well as I thought or something goes off. Then I'm panicking. Now I'm going faster. And the other night I was opening, it just felt cool.

And this is like, I don't know, it's fun. I still enjoy just like working on stand-up. Like just doing stand-up. And like I was opening for my buddy Luke, Severide, and Charlotte. And like, it was last show. It was Saturday. It was the 4th of July, like Saturday.

It was like an early show. And the crowd was good. They just were like kind of quiet. Like you can have crowds or like they're good. You'll get people to come up to you and like, that was so funny. And you're like, you didn't laugh. I appreciate it. I believe that that's what you think.

But you got it just the energy, there's like a ceiling on the energy. And normally I would like just feel that and start going fast, fast, fast, fast, like to start powering through. And I was like very consciously like, one, I've got 20, 25 minutes I've got to get through. And if I go fast, I'm going to run out of the stuff I wrote down. And so I just like slow, like got even slower and was like, I'm just going to ring whatever I can out of this crowd. And then, and I'm going to do my job. Like I also used to go up with a lot of pressure and feel like every set had to like kill, murder, destroy.

And so it's fun. I've started doing more stuff like some of the stuff you saw about like being homeschooled, growing up evangelical. I think the one that kills that people like really that does feel something like me was like I was on a date and and very early on shit I had animated Disney dad vibes that would got me then yeah yeah and then and then I'm like you mean like a widower

like a widower? I feel like that's the most Disney movies like a widower trapped in a lighthouse but even my current it's state life and entertainment i i yeah i lost it yeah yeah yeah it's all he's every one of them yeah yeah yeah well and i think you could let i mean i don't know just like i always tell people just like i'm very big on joke right like i like written jokes and like i've only just now gotten comfortable where i kind of talk but even then i've like my mind usually works in like a set up a

punchline or like a a beat beat beat like it's not free flowing or like figuring things out. Well, not to get too like sideways as part of it, but I think it's interesting because it's just like whenever I was at the ticket and I think there's some level of truth to this

although I don't know. It's like you got to play by the rules to break the rules type thing. And like I'll watch stand up now and listen to a guy tell a story not Dave Chappelle. That's an extreme. Other real comics that will tell a story

that there's like one punchline in two minutes, three minutes. But because you care about their story and their affect, you can get away with it. I can't. At least in front of an audience, it doesn't know me, right? So, yeah. Anyways, so I was going to, where I was going with that? You are right. I'm kind of all over the place.

No, no, no. You can chronological. We're moving on. Yeah. So I did stand up for five years, most of that in Nashville, and then I went to Duke Divinity School for school for. seminary, continued to do stand-up through that time. And then the last time I did it before starting back a couple years ago was the night I graduated Divinity School at Duke. And I like got my, they do it on

Saturday nights because all the people have church in the morning. And so I got my diploma. And then my parents and I got in the car and drove down to Charlie Goodnights. It was the first time they'd ever see me do stand-up. And it was doing like 10 minutes opening for Neybargetse. And there were 30, 30 people there to see Napragutzi and five of them were kicked out before he even got on stage because they were just talking the whole time.

It was crazy. Did you do? I did okay. I just powered through. When I went up, it was in the moment where like everyone's aware that they're talking. The club should have kicked them out a minute or two. They weren't talking to me. They were just talking

amongst themselves. And so I just kind of powered through. Yeah. And I said something that everyone, knew I was making fun of them and they didn't know it. And then that kind of got, that kind of got us, like, the crowd, like, we're aware, like, okay, we're all aware that these people won't shut the fuck up. So from there, you, uh, you decided to quit stand-up. Yeah, it was like, I didn't, I, yeah, yeah, I was like that.

Yeah, I was like, I was like, I was like this Nate guy's been doing it for 10 years and this is where he's, uh, and I just saw him at the, you know, Greensboro Coliseum a couple weeks. ago. But yeah, I was like, I'm going to do this pastor thing. I don't want to be in, like, I don't want to, I'm not going to have time to do this very often. And I don't want to be the guy that's like, I do stand-up comedy, which means like every six months, I do five minutes on a show or something. Like, I was just like, I don't know, I just don't want to. Some of it, I think, was also just discomfort with, like, feeling like I had. And it's something I've worked through just recently of like there's this stand-up comedy thing that I do and part of my life that I love

and then this other thing that actually doesn't I don't want the two to meet whether it's the nonprofit or the ministry thing I've since brought them together now we have a comedy fundraiser and it's just like they're they're right together now yeah yeah and I I love I'm like why did I not I know why I did not do it for nine years and I'm I'm cool with that but like I have like fallen back in love with it like I really really enjoy it and I get to do I get to do kind of fun stuff like with comics that I love because it's like I've just I got to know them when they were nobody I was definitely nobody and they were like barely anybody when we were we met in Nashville so so how old were you when you graduated Duke Seminary?

25, 26, I think. Yeah. So then you are 39, now you started stand up again, like what, when you were 34? Three years ago, yeah, three years ago, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so during that time, from seminary, you went to what professionally? And when did we get to, when this old? Yeah, so I was a minister, a Baptist minister, Baptist in the South, but not Southern Baptist.

but not Southern Baptist, if that distinction makes any sense for your audience. I mean, that's, I went to a church in Northridge and Hills called Northwood. It was on, like, roof snow and 377. Yeah. Or roof snow and it's over there. And it was not, I didn't know what Southern Baptist meant. Right. Until I got older and learned there was a whole thing.

I was like, well, we're Baptists, but and we're like, right, right. We say non-denomination, we were Baptist. And I'm like, and this is definitely. Southern. It was not a son. So that's interesting you say that, because I've never really known how to communicate that to people. Yeah, yeah.

The cooperative Baptist Fellowship. I'm actually in the, my current office is across the hall from the first office that I had at the church here in Greensboro. And so, yeah, so I did that for like seven years, was like an associate minister, was kind of always the person that like, again, similar to my dad where they were like, yeah, yeah, they were like, hey, this person's struggling. I mean, more than just, I mean, it was more than prostitutes. But like, yeah, people walking in the church.

And then a lot of churches have, and this is like kind of, this does tie into like what I'm doing now. Like a lot of churches will have like a benevolence fund, an emergency fund they use to like just directly help people. And churches, they do it different ways. like some, you know, only pay bills, some people buy a thing for a person, help them with, you know, X number of dollars or whatever. And while I was here at this first church that I was working at, like right out of seminary, we had a guy from the church who gave $30,000. So he wanted it set aside for like, not just like one-off emergencies, but like to really help, like use it substantially to help a few people. And I got to just like have kind of free reign.

with that fund and so put together like a basically like a you might if i ask you what he put on it at like okay how specific was he about number of people duration of time i feel like this is important like he was pretty yeah he he basically like let me and one of the other ministers kind of propose something and then and we were just like what if we i mean we so i was just like i don't know about four to six thousand dollars you know i kind of ballparked it like four to six thousand dollars we use it, we can just buy stuff that people need to get out of poverty or out of homelessness. And then like, we'll just kind of work with them on that. And there was a church member who was a guy that I'd gotten to know again, like someone

kind of shows up seemingly a little bit out of place and begins coming to the church. He's technically not homeless, but he has like a house he inherited from his dad. He had lost his job welding. And so, or his car broke down. So he loses his welding job. so he can't get his car fixed. So now, like, so he would bike in from the house to the city, like, bike around, get some of the meals that were offered, come to, come to what would later be my place

of employment, the stay center for the homeless. And then he would, like, come to the church on a cave. Like, he, like, come to the church. And so we had gotten to know him. So we spent, like, it's basically like six grand on, like, car, getting his license. The stuff you need to, like, get transportation, go. get his utilities turned on. And within like a week, he's got a job welding and is like back on his feet.

And so I like took that. I think I worked with four people with that. One of them was this like single dad with his two kids in high school. And I like, it recently ran into his daughter and she's like doing pretty well. I mean, still a struggle. But like we helped them, I think with a car. and it was get into an apartment. And so that was like my first for a into like having a chunk of money,

but also starting to like systematize like how to spend it. Like, and we were still spending it on stuff. Like we weren't giving it to people. But like it's not just you got a bill. It gets paid. You know, you're caught up on your white bill. It was like, what is it? Basically I have to sit with people and be like, what do you need?

And then like, let's just go buy that. and like we would go go do it. And so I was at this church, bounced around a couple of churches, was not like taking care of myself first. I also like was just like really distressed and would find myself in positions with congregants and the church structure at large that was partly them,

partly them, partly me, you know? Yeah. And like I just, I was like, again, really not. I've been in weekly therapy for like six years. I think we're coming to a close. We'll see.

We've only got five or six more years left, I think. You're just like we're good. You know what? If it's not fixed now, we're just not even doing it. And again, like, you know, I said so early on, like I now look back and I was trying to have the church and ministry, like, hold on to too much for me.

Like, it was like, I was trying to, like, fit these things that I love and I'm passionate about and the ways I go about them into, like, a profession and situation that just, like, was not, just wasn't healthy. And, like, wasn't, it was kind of unfair to everyone involved. And, like, I mean, I was, I have a, someone did social media for my nonprofit about a year ago we were talking. And it's like, yeah, I can't really see you ever working for anybody else. And I was like, yeah, I mean, it's traditionally not gone well.

Yeah. And so my joke now, I'm the executive director. I'm like, I work for the only guy I can stand to work for most of the time. He's an asshole. So. Yeah. I'm a child of a woman who has run her own business and she was 17. Yeah, yeah.

And there was never, it was just never going to be another way. Yeah. So. But yeah, I just want to have it real quick there. just you and another guy right so at this stage the administration to get this done right is minuscule right like so like that's the fun like i realize this is a a skeleton version of what you you know but it's clear this is like an aha moment where you're like yeah this is and the case that i've like sort of been trying to figure out how to

make to people is if you wanted to make it from like a capitalist standpoint it would be that the moment that guy showed up, the moment his car broke down and he got fired, he effectively, if you wanted to be purely like, let's talk about this like it's the NBA and this guy's a, that eighth guy in your roster, right? Yeah. That is a negative asset at that point. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And if you take the very amount of, a small amount of administrative and, you know, basically spiritual effort to administer a small amount of money, you can make that a positive asset for the economy that will cost you less than

that front end ROI. I mean, you know, whether, there's ways that are quantifiable and ways that are non-quantifiable. And I feel like that's almost the, that's almost the in the toolbox of appeals for the way you do things.

I think that's maybe an underrated one. It's like, it's almost like the capitalist, I was talking to a buddy this weekend who lives in Portland. And all of his neighbors are like, nonprofit directors who make a quarter million dollars a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like the capitalist, then, you should say,

I feel like we could tighten this up. I feel like we could make this money to work more efficiently. And so I think part of it that hits in your message is the no strings attached part, which we can talk a little bit more about. Yeah. But I think part of it, too, is just how easy it really does become if you're committed to the systematic efficiency of. of it. Yeah, yeah. Yes. You just hear a lot of like, this isn't going to work. Yeah. Yeah. You get that or like, and I think this is part of, you know, I mentioned like I've always been

distressed by people apart. I've also like not at all gotten any, um, like I, like, I got no, um, I never like enjoyed in this sort of like sense that I saw a lot of people that I was the minister for, which again, like, didn't work well. But like, the way a lot of people enjoyed mission trips or enjoyed... There's like a paternalistic nature. Yeah, yeah. Like, I got none of that. I was like, when I tell people, I'm like, they don't want to be in this position

where they're asking you for money. I'm like, I don't want them asking me for money either. Like, I don't like this, that we have to relate to each other this way. And like, so that was also a big part of it. So there's a one hand, like, this will never work. but then also like what people enjoy about like those kinds of encounters with people. I think it's less so now. Like I think people have started to recognize that.

That like, oh, our job actually should, even more conservative people. Like our job ought to be actually helping these people stand on their own two feet or do whatever. And like, so that was part of like that like I don't enjoy this. Like I'd rather not spend the night at the homeless shelter as a volunteer. I'd rather them not be homeless. Like that would be cool. That would be cooler. And if there's a way to do, if there's a way I can do that, I told, yeah, like, if there's a way we can do that.

And like, why would we not just do that? And then we can go live our lives and do the stuff that we want to do. And so I think that, I think that was a big part of it for me. It was like not, I was like, I don't. want to have to help this person but i do but if i could if i could actually not if i could help them like substantially and i could do it like with way less work like i i would like to and in a way that like provides them a measure of like dignity and opportunity and trust and respect that they're not getting elsewhere like um you know that let let's do that and that was where like

taking that those experiences kind of yeah at that church like with that fund i um i worked at a day center for the homeless again back here in in greensboro north carolina and did a pilot project where we got 10 people who were homeless five thousand dollars each no strings attached it went directly to them i'm sorry if i miss is where the funding come from for that 50 uh i i just raised it like i just asked people yeah yeah yeah we applied for city and like rescue plan funds but it was like such a new thing that like we didn't we didn't get me because i just i remember somewhere in this in our offline conversation you mentioning like maybe somebody who had done well in finance uh who's from the area or something was that were they in this stage yeah yeah yeah so

like that very first fund in ministry jump forward to working at this day center i am uh i'm running the this program or setting up this program like we're gonna get 10 people five have Greenwich, we're going to provide case manage checking on. And so I had to raise the funding. And I was not like the executive director. And I've really never done any fundraising, like ever. And so I, a friend of mine, his dad was from Greensboro. And he was like, I think my dad might want to give to kind of help you get this thing,

this project off the ground. And so we hopped on a call for about two hours. And at the end of it, he said he would match $36,000 that we raised. and you know i've been in like church and non-profit stuff my whole life i'm like why these directors always complain about fundraising it's easy you just you just yeah obviously that's like a somewhat of a one-off case maybe you're about to tell but i i just to me the numbers are just not that big yeah like if you're a guy who works in finance and wall and you're like you know when i make a couple million a year i'm going to give 20 grand to my hometown 40 grand to my hometown yeah yeah

write it off like i just i think yeah and that and that's where his is his is a couple million a year he's is a very generous family. I mean, I will say to like give it, give even that much money to someone you've just met after two hours and hearing them talk is like, not, not common. Yeah, I mean, it was, I kind of hit the right notes. And he has since been like an amazing supporter and essentially helped us, helped us financially like those first few years to get off. Not, not enough that we were like, that I haven't been sweating it at times with fundraising. But he, he has been. been like a big a big advocate and supporter for our first our first three years. And so like that having that chunk of money, I was like, oh, we're going to do this project at at least this scale.

And then like so we were applying for city, county funding. We didn't get it. So we just went ahead and we had the 10, these 10 people who came into the program. And again, kind of another step in terms of like figuring out how to systematize it, how to like actually run it. You know, I was trying to like get people bank accounts. And, um, I, I don't, you, like, it is not easy to get a bank account when you are homeless, and I didn't know that until I had people waiting on $5,000 and trying to move into apartments. And so I drove, like, six banks one day and, like, sounded like a lunatic. I'm just like, I'm trying to, like, give all those people money.

Will you give them a bank account? Like, what are you talking about? And I finally wound up at a truest, and the banker was like, I got you. And there's a really cool story. Oh, man, I forgot to tell it. It was a really cool story. I forgot to tell it the other night when I was talking about this program. This guy, Carlos, came into the program.

He'd been homeless. And we go to the bank. We get him set up. She's doing all over. She's like looking at the screen, but talking to you. Like, you know how the bank? They're like, you're doing like important work. And somehow we're having a conversation.

Yeah. And, you know, she's doing all that. She's getting a bank account. She's like putting the folder together. She's like, if you got any problems, you call me. Go over right there. they'll get you set up they'll get you your account opened up and uh he's got carlos 50 years old he's been like in and out of prison for a lot of his life and homeless but like working he's gonna

it wound up being an incredible story but we're like walking across the bank lobby you know he's having all this experience and he's just like bang it's like you guys make me feel like i'm really somebody and i'm just like oh my god i'm like you do not cry in the lobby of a truest be cool dude like you're not like get him get him back to the day center and then you can cry. And so that program, like while I was doing that, I'm also like working white. We were doing like white flag emergency shelter where you were like, you know, sheltering 150 people like right off the street every night.

There's fights in the day room. I'm having to do all my other responsibilities at the organization. And I was just like, oh, I just want to do more of this. Like half the people got housed right away. and essentially realized like there are a lot of, I thought there were going to be a lot of organization, cities, just people in general who would be like skeptical of giving people money. And I could prove to them you should do it.

And here's how you should do it. And then here's how I'm doing it. You should give me money. And or you should work with us to give the people you serve money, like these nonprofits. And pretty much right away, I realize like there are way more people out there and way more organizations that actually already want to give people money. It's just like they have no idea how.

Like do I want it to be effective. Yeah. Like I want it like I've done the whole thing where I help somebody here and there a couple hundred bucks. They come by. You know, like I've done the sporadic thing. Nonprofit agencies are like, you know, we have emergency assistance, but Sally cuts the checks every other week. or there's a company credit card, or like, we got to go buy a Visa gift card at Walmart

and then get it over to it. Like, we would do more of it if we knew how. And the joke, I always told us like when I was a kid, I would like, my parents would maybe do something I didn't want to do. And instead of saying, I don't want to do that, I would say, I can't want to do that. So I'd be like standing on my bed and be like, I can't want to go to bed.

I can't want to go to bed. And I realized, like, oh, I was going into this thinking there are a lot of agencies, organizations, cities, people that are like, we don't want to give people money. And I was going to tell them you should. And instead, they were like, we just can't want that. Like we can't want to give people money because like, how would we get it to? How would we do that? What would it look like? And so held has, I started held this nonprofit. And locally, we raise money. We provide it directly to people who need it. They get referred to us from partner agencies. We're now, let's stop on that, the referral and

vetting process. So the 10 that you got that gave you the sort of the, what do we say, pilot projects. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you, what was that? How did you get those 10? Because you were still affiliated with another organization and how much of that did you take over to the way you do it now? Yeah. We got five of them were like internal referrals, like people that were already in our services at the day center. And then five came from criteria. you know what I mean? I don't know if the day center had its own criteria that so it's right but I want to get to how do you decide who's getting the point and who's yeah yeah yeah so

it was like I'm trying to remember with that one it was like within two years of having become homeless like we were looking for people who were like more recently I think well maybe it wouldn't even two years on that one um you know it was like 18 or over like ability to be employed not like, if someone either on disability or needs to be on disability, like they should be pursuing that. You know, I think we said something like, we did not do any drug testing or anything like that, but like asking case managers, like, are they, you know, like, actively. So, yeah, to your knowledge, are they like actively, you know, using, struggling with this in any way that might, that this might not be.

And all of that is just like, I want this to be helpful. Like, and ultimately I'm like, we can't control what people do. But like I also, it's really big on me. Like I don't want to set people up with expectations that what they are receiving is going to be ultimately helpful when it's not. And that could that's not their fault. That's not whatever. That's like they're in a situation where they need more help than this is going to provide. So that was kind of it.

I mean, I basically just like trust it. I still do just like, here's what we're providing. You probably know who it's going to be. most helpful for. And like, I trust you, whether that was our case managers or organizations in the community. And we've never, like, we've never turned anybody down once they've been sent to us. Yeah. Yeah. Other than like, we actually just like, we weren't receiving referrals or something, but nothing to do with like them as a person or their situation. Yeah. Because I think that's, that's where you get to the, the getting burned thing and how do we know this is going to work? And I,

And I just think your perspective and disposition is one that I really like respect and appreciate. And I don't know. My wife is definitely tired of hearing me talk like this. But it does come in handy when like the chips are down, which is I just feel like I've, I was gifted like a really good perspective on life. Yeah. And that, you know, you just you're, and I think I got a perspective on it from working in entertainment media too. it's just very obvious that there's something in your brain wired for survival that negative events

become more pronounced than positive ones. But there's something about the way that I live now that for whatever reason, it just allows me to view the small negatives alongside the many positives as an overall positive. And so just setting out knowing it goes back to kind of, the asset management thing it's like setting out knowing if i do it this way it will fail some of the time yeah and its successes on the other side will be magnified more right like so if we get an 80% successes uh you know what that's i'm i get tricky when i try to explain the math but like yeah yeah i i it makes sense to me that there's value there like there's economic value there in

addition to, because we've just seen, like, the means testing stuff, you started getting into the administration. Now, I do have my questions about how you scale, you know, and I think that's something that you're sort of getting into because it still sounds like, and I don't think that this is like, I don't think this is impossible, but I'm trying to get to, are there lessons that can be learned and applied more broadly that don't take a human being reviewing every case? case, right? So there's the obvious ways of like, hey, this program is going to raise five million and try to help whatever that comes out to X number of people. And then there's

like a conversation about policy and like proving that this actually could work, you know, in a public state, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I, okay, so like one way I think about it is like, not just like, oh, we know X percentage. It's going to work for X percentage of people and not for Y percent. Some of it is also like the people like I tell people I'm like I've been burned before like there was there was someone in that 10 person cohort that like bought a car it was a junker and he spent he got bummed out he spent the rest on like drugs and alcohol. Some of that was also like oh could we have been a little more like engaged in helping him

work through that but also like who knows. But like I couldn't know and you can't know and none of us can know. none of us can know, like going in, who is going to be successful. So like I said, or who's going to use this well, or who's going to catch a good break or a bad break? And so it's not just that, like, the negatives and the positives, the positives sort of win out, whatever that looks like. It's more like there are positives that are not possible if you are so scared of the negatives. Like if you say, like, it always has to be positive. And I think this goes to your point about like means testing and like the entire possible.

policy framework of America at this point in terms of like any sort of social assistance, except for social security is based on the idea of like weeding out sort of people who don't deserve it, people are going to misuse it, people who are not looking for a job. So a lot of like TANF, what should be like cash assistance. I mean, I think North, it's ever, basically every state has like 85% of the like cash assistance that's available goes unclaimed. because the hurdles are so... Stuff like that.

Yeah, because the hurdles are just so great. And like, even at its peak, like, before welfare reform, it was only something like... It was like 20% of the population or something was getting, like, a cash, like direct cash benefit. Which, like, the myth in the 90s was it's, like, 80% of people. You know, like, nobody wants to work. And so that's one way I think that that idea sort of scales is, like,

Yeah, sure. Like you can, if you want to get, you're going to weed out people, weed out, or like, keep people from succeeding that would succeed otherwise because you have made the restrictions so narrow. And I think that is like a real contradiction that people don't know what to do with because they'll be like, I know this person from my church, from like that I see every day going into the place downtown that I go. and they deserve help and they would do well with it and they should receive it and what they don't understand is like the same, it's the same system as weeding them out or keeping them

from getting the help that is also they think is necessary for the person they think shouldn't get it. And there's like no way to reconcile that other than to say like universal egalitarianism or just like it should be universal because like people need it.

And I find that I think what I do and how held works in that regard, I think people are drawn to the fact that like I don't, I try to make that contradiction productive. I don't ignore it. I don't ignore the fact that like I can see on the debit cards we give out across our programs. So we work with five different agencies across the state. We have multiple programs where we're distributing funds in addition to the one we're giving out.

And so I can see where people are spending the money. And I see ABC Liquor Store on some of them, which funny enough, the merchant category on it is government services because they're owned by the state of North Carolina. Like, actually, that's a great point. If we wanted to restrict our cards to not be sent at ABC liquor stores, we would also have to restrict people from going to the DMV and getting their license in order.

So what should we do? do. I'm doing animated Disney dad. What's doing what you're doing? But like that right there, that is like the contradiction. So I could go to someone be like, okay, you want me to make sure people don't spend the money at a liquor store. I also have to make sure that literally the first person, the first person of like the four people we gave money to, the first thing she asked was like, can I go to the DMV? Because I got to get my license and order and registration so I can fix my car so I can go back to community college. And she now has a job at a hospital. You might have to pay a ticket. You know, you might have a parking ticket that you have to pay to get updated that would take government.

Yeah, and I think people think there's this perfect system that can zero in on the deserving and undeserving rather than like, no, it's just kicking people off left and right. You know, there is too many hoops to jump through. There's too much, like, it's not even, I mean, it is kind of red tape issue, but it's like, no, it is designed to keep people off of this. is not designed to zero in on like actually who deserves it or who doesn't. And I find that contradiction that people have of like, oh, I know someone and why isn't the government helping them? And it's like because it's designed to not help the person you think it shouldn't help. And yeah, sorry, I got my son. I got my Bernie soapbox there. That's exactly where I wanted us to head and wrap up and end.

And just because I think, you know, I think back a lot about, again, not to make it too much of my own, like, childhood. But my mom at some point became disillusioned with the church. But I always felt like we were really like she was living it. You know, we were that house that had whatever. We had the people who didn't have a family over for Thanksgiving. She was always raising money for something. You know, I honestly, I was like, she's just too real. She's too real for this.

Like they don't, they're not living it. like she is. And so I don't know. It's strange now to be this age to live where I live and feel like, you know, I think there's a lot of other people who grew up like I did in a church setting who this was a big part of what, you know, definitely it got weird at some point, right? Like culture issues. But even my like somewhat cringy Baptist church in Wataga-Teller area, we were very focused.

focused on helping when I was a kid. And now that I'm older, it's like, you know, that's presented as being at odds with the ballot choices I make, right? For the party more dominated by religion. But I just feel like there's a huge swath of people that are culturally somewhat aligned like with people like me and you. And we're very different. But we both like don't take ourselves too seriously. I work very hard. It's clear you work very hard.

I think the economy should probably work in some way where there are markets that if you do want to work way harder than everyone else, you could be rewarded. But it just at a base level, it feels like it's very hard morally to have grown up the way that we did and live the way that we like didn't see society. It's just it's hard. And I feel like that capitalist piece of it is a good selling point, right? because it's very hard. You probably shouldn't be asked to care about people you don't know about that much, right? I don't know. Again, I think your biology is outstripping the technology or vice versa, right?

Like, that's a big ask. It's a big, it's a non-human ask almost at some level, especially given the tough schedule that America plays, right, relative to some, you know, more homogenous countries. But I think just hearing you talk just makes – Sorry, was that another sports analogy? Yes. I've said this, this is my best way to sell it, is that, like, yeah, I get it. And given the tough schedule.

I know. Yeah, a lot of away games. A lot of away games. Yeah, the tough thing is, as much like in college football, we schedule these games. But they are hard ones. Yeah, yeah. They are hard ones. And now I'm going to play the game that's on the field.

So I don't know. I just think hearing you talk about it and your experience and then, I don't know. I think it's great. Yeah. And I know that one way you guys are doing fundraising now, whether you want to call it that or not, is in the traditional sense, like doing the comedy show, getting James Austin Johnson on board is huge. And then the interesting component of helping on the admin and back end side to get some points. That's true.

I want to hear a little bit about that before we go. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I was kind of back to the before. So the point, the, the, the stuff about politics, you know, yeah, like, I, ultimately like my political horizon is like, held does not exist and like I don't have to do that. Like that is like the dream or held fills in much smaller gaps than we do. And like, to your point about like, faith, there's a great,

and I actually think this is like the difference between like, possibly the Democratic Party and like an actual socialist politics. So there's a great quote by St. Augustine. I'm sure your listener's familiar. And he, you know, St. Augustine has this great quote. He's talking about First John where first John is like, you know, if you see someone who's naked, give him your coat, you see someone who's hungry, give them food.

You see someone homeless, take them in. And St. Augustine is like, he's basically saying, like, should these are all good things and he's answering sort of the question like someone might have is like oh well we should hope that there are more poor people and this is kind of like the evangelical feeling like oh well the more poor people there are the more opportunity there is for us to help and he's like absolutely not like it is and he's like absolutely not if someone needs help you go help them but it would be better for us to be equal under the one who needs nothing from us and like I think that is the difference between sort of the contemporary Democratic Party is they're like,

we want to help and a socialist politics, which would say like, we should want that no one needs health. Like we should want that we are equal or that we don't need help on these particular things. And that's kind of the, like, or that society provides such a baseline. He says, like, it would be better. Give them food. It'd be better if they weren't hungry. Give them clothes. It'd be better if they weren't naked. And so, anyways, that was kind of, that's kind of my soapbox. I love it because the modern Democratic Party and the degree to which egalitarianism just takes no ego right there's no hero in that story you don't get to stand up and be like look I saved there's no and that yeah that is where you know I

but that's tricky to me because I don't love saying like why don't you be a better person right right there's other ways to to get there yeah yeah but that yeah that's but that is like truly like my my sort of and I think it ties into like part of part of our work at held is like providing the mechanism by which like either organizations or cities or municipalities can can realize that. And so like we just have this financial infrastructure where like we know how to cleanly and accountably and easily like move money from a donor, funder grant organization to people who it should go to in a particular service or program.

And it turns out there are a lot of, like I said, organizations that want to do this. A lot of cities are recognizing, like if we're going to work on housing and homelessness, we need to have money that is available to help people get housed right away, whether that's rental assistance or eviction prevention or just a hotel room to get people off the streets. And like, a lot of their infrastructure is not set up to do that because they have not done it traditionally because they've got all these systems that say it should only go right to xyz so that has always been the vision the goal the first document I produced for held was actually a spreadsheet and was

like if we we work with organizations and help them distribute these funds we are typical administrative cost are about 10% that kind of varies depending on the complexity or size or scope we'll work with people but we do that we get about 10% of the funds that are going to get to distributed and then we enable them to like help people that they would not have help people they were helping or wouldn't have helped otherwise and then help them in a way that like they weren't able to do by giving them money and so we like I said we work across the state we have five partnerships or in five cities and we've got like a United Way a neighborhood association or

neighborhood alliance organization Charlotte we're working with Duke University on like a big health study with kids on on Medicaid. And then the last year, we've been working with the city of Raleigh on rental assistance. So we get money to landlords, but they have basically the city and then the larger county are making a massive push to move people out of encampments by housing first, get them a place to live,

then determine what is the long-term sustainable plan. Like don't, I was at a meeting, with some of the case managers and people in the program, and several of them were like voicing suspicion, because they know the people that are in these encampments and are like, they are not going to be able to, you know, they're not going to be able to sustain this. They're not going to be able to get a job.

And the person running the training and running the program was like, okay, so do you think it's better that we wait until they are ready? Like, wait until they get ready while living in an encampment on the street or do you think they can get ready while they have an apartment when they have an apartment? The upfront cost, right? How much more are you going to throw away good money or not, right? Yeah.

And I mean, and even. Right. And I'm going to, I mean, like housing, homelessness, like, we pay for people to be how, like, homeless. Like, we're paying for people to be homeless. Like, that's just, it's a social cost. We pay for people to be in poverty. It, like, we're paying for those things.

And so it's like a question of just like, how are we going to allocate those resources? And so we are working with the city of Raleigh. We are the like financial admin for this rental assistance program that went from three people a year ago to like, I think there's 30 in the program now with another 29 coming in from this encampment. And then we're working on an agreement that would set us up to where it could expand to potentially 300 people that we would, we would be making sure, and like, our whole job, it's great. Like, I, you know, people get housed and I sit at my computer.

But, like, we also are, like, providing this thing. Yeah, yeah, I get to write my stupid jokes. We are providing this thing that, again, fills this gap organizationally that a lot of places I'm seeing from my vantage point are recognizing, like, we should be able to do this. And they just haven't yet because of time, ideology

well black and they haven't seen somebody do it right and that's why I think it's incredible you're filling in here it's cool that you figured out a way to grow it on its own right like so it's feeding itself it's so cool yeah yeah and who knows dude you're like you said

five agencies right now there were only 30 people at that nature so your version of that that is that's right you know yeah and hey I'll just say it now like by the end of 2027 something in DFW I'm gonna help Dude, let's do it.

We got a push. We got to push. Let's do it, man. I mean, oh, like I... There's been much money here. Yeah, dude, let's, I mean, we're already, I'm already looking at doing a fun. We just did our fundraise, annual fundraiser show, which is stand-up comedy, and we had James Austin Johnson, and then Maddie Weiner, if you don't know, look up at Matt.

Dude, dude, dude, she is a rock star. Like, just awesome. And so we did that one here in Greensboro. We're looking at doing one in Rock. and we've got the model down. So like it's, and I just hired a director of programs and operations, which is, she's incredible.

So like, I want, I mean, I don't know, I'm back in Grapevine a couple times a year anyway, so like, might as well be doing something, something there. So we will make it happen, man. Well, I love to. Well, I love to have you, dude. I appreciate you.

Oh, thanks, bud. I appreciate it. This is fun, man. I really enjoy it and someone I want to hop on and just talk Dallas Mavericks because like, all right, I'm out. I'm also obsessed with that. That is my other

lone painful obsession. Hey, listen, if you want to be a MAPS fan, they're giving you plenty of reason to right now. They're pushing the right buttons. I am very much enjoying it and didn't think I could about 18 months ago. It's the faith in you.

That's right. That's right. I believe in Jesus Christ and Dirk Novitsky. Adios. That is it. All right. Thanks, man.