The Duran Podcast - EU, UK, Ukraine reject Trump plan, Russia supports Trump peace efforts

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

EU, UK, Ukraine reject Trump plan, Russia supports Trump peace efforts

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the diplomacy that is taking place between the United States and Russia, between the United States and Ukraine, if you want to call it diplomacy. And the diplomacy taking place between the United States and Europe, the Europeans, who are very unhappy with the United States and are rejecting the U.S. is recognition of Crimea. which is an odd thing to say. But the Europeans reject the United States as recognition of Kravaya. Anyway, we have all kinds of diplomacy taking place. One day, it looks like it's making progress. The next day, it looks like there's no progress. How are you reading things?

Well, this is the most chaotic and disorganized negotiation I've ever seen in my life in the world of diplomacy. It's very difficult to understand exactly what's going on. because, as you rightly say, it changes from one day to the next. And the major confusions ultimately come from Washington. Now, there's a number of things to say. Firstly, for the first couple of weeks after Donald Trump became president of the United States, the Americans focused on trying to get a ceasefire organized. That was what Zelensky was asked to do when he went to,

Washington in February when there was that massive bust up in the Oval Office. He refused to agree to ceasefire. If you remember, unless he got security guarantees from the Americans, the Americans said they were not in the business at that time of giving security guarantees. There was this huge row. He went away. There was then a follow-up meeting in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia, where the Ukrainians came without Zelensky and the Americans got them to agree very unwillingly to endorse an unconditional ceasefire. Trump then contacted the Russians. Putin said no.

He said an unconditional ceasefire doesn't make sense. He wanted the root causes of the problem addressed. In other words, he wanted a proper movement towards a final agreement. to be put together. And then we've had other attempts by the Americans to set up other kinds of ceasefires. There was the ceasefire on the energy system, in the attacks on the energy systems. That never worked. We had Putin's attempt to get a ceasefire over the course of Easter. That didn't work either. Seas fires have gone absolutely nowhere. And then suddenly, a couple of days ago, About a week ago, the Americans started to say that this is now make or break.

We have to have a deal within done within a couple of days. A deal must be done. If the deal isn't done, then the United States will walk away. Trump has many priorities. The United States has many priorities. And suddenly, the Americans veered from trying to get a ceasefire to trying to discuss the substantive issues, in other words, addressing the kind of things that the Russians said needed to be looked at, the question of territories, the underlying issues of how the conflict

is going to end. Anyway, suddenly the Americans started to talk about those things. And they came up with a seven-point plan. and they presented it to the Ukrainians and the Europeans last, this, you know, over the course of the last couple of days. There was a meeting first in Paris and then there was supposed to be a follow-up meeting in London. Again, Zelensky was kept well away from the meeting in London. We then got information about what this American plan was. and it turned out that it was in all essence the Kellogg Plan.

It didn't differ from the Kellogg Plan. Now, that could be because Trump, in fact, more likely than not, it's because Trump has always worked on the basis that the Kellogg Plan would be the ultimate plan. That would be the one that would lead to the deal, the famous deal, the agreement. Or it could be that because the Russians were saying we've got to have something substantive to work on, We can't just talk about ceasefires because ceasefires don't work, that the America's dusted off the only plan that they have, which is the Kellogg plan. I mean, that is a possibility to, as I said, this is such a chaotic process that is very

difficult to know exactly what is happening here. Anyway, the point is, Zelensky then threw publicly the most extraordinary tantrum. He rejected the Kellogg Plan in its entirety. There's been a lot of focus about Crimea, but he didn't just talk about Crimea. He insisted that all territory must be returned to Ukraine. He said that the only thing he's prepared to talk about is an unconditional ceasefire. Nothing else. That's the only mandate that he's negotiators have.

He insists that Ukraine must be allowed to enter NATO. He's taking all that stance. the Europeans, or at least the most powerful people in Europe, Ursula, Chia Callas, obviously, Friedrich Mertz, Macron, Starrma, they've all publicly sided with Zelensky. And right across the European media, you now have furious denunciations of Trump, of the United States, that this is appeasement, that this is surrender to the Russians, that the Kellogg Plan is completely unacceptable, that we can't tolerate anything that rewards aggression, that there's never been any change in borders by force since the end of the Second World War. That is so completely

untrue, by the way, in Europe, that again, one wonders where these people, what planet these people are wrong. But anyway, all of that happened. And that looked. as if the negotiations on Wednesday, such as they are, if they are even negotiations, had finally collapsed. And then over the next couple of hours, even as Rubio and Wiggoff departed from the negotiations, we got, we started to get messages from Trump, which suggested that he still thinks that some kind of an agreement can be reached. And the suggestion that this is a make or break moment, that wasn't quite true after all. And then he published this true social post, which was critical of Zelensky, but nowhere near as critical of Zelensky, as one might have expected.

It doesn't address the fact that Zelensky has completely rejected in all of. all respects the American plan, the Kellogg plan, the only plan the Americans have put forward. And we also had a further through social post from Trump, which criticizes a missile strike on Kiev that the Russians have conducted. Again, it's not clear why this particular missile strike is attracting so much attention, given that there had been dozens of missile strikes on Kiev over the course of the war, and there is no ceasefire. And at the same time, we hear reports that Whitgoth is on his way to Moscow. It's not clear what Whitgolf is coming to Moscow for, because the plan, the Kellogg

plan, has been rejected already by the Ukrainians. So he's coming empty-handed. But my best guess is that Trump is making one last attempt to try and get some movement. And he's sent Witt Gough to see whether Putin is going to make some concessions and try to get this whole process moving forward. Because that's the only conceivable reason why I can see Witt Gough going to Moscow at this time. This is not off topic, but I think it is connected. As Witt Koff is in Moscow, there was a terrorist. attack. It looks like it was a terrorist attack on a Russian military official, I believe,

a major general. And we don't have many details at the time of recording this video, but assuming that this has something to do with Ukraine, we've had these attacks on Russian military officials before in the past. And it was Ukraine and a lot of reports claimed that it was not only Ukraine, but it was specifically the military Intel Budanov's department that was orchestrating these things, assuming that this is what happened in this instance as well. Are any peace deals now officially off? Well, one would assume so, actually, Because it looks to me that that assassination attempt, if there was one, which I think there probably was, I mean, we rightly said, we haven't got all the details. We just got the news.

We just got the news as we're recording. But I mean, it looks to me very, very likely that was the purpose. Because this is where the whole thing, now, the whole absurdity of this whole so-called negotiation is becoming transparently. obvious because listening to Zelensky when he spoke on Tuesday, following and tracking all of the things that he has said since then, he clearly doesn't want peace. He wants the war to continue. The fact that Ukraine is losing it is not really something that seems to worry him very much, but he wants the war to continue. And it looks to me as if he and the people, and the people, people around him, presumably including Budanov, are going to do everything they possibly can

over the next couple of days to sabotage any movement towards peace. So if they can assassinate a Russian general somewhere in Russia in order to derail the whole peace negotiation, they will do it. And of course, quite plausibly it will derail the peace negotiations. Now, I was reading, just before we did this program, an absolutely excoriating statement made by the Russian foreign ministry spokesman yesterday, Zaharva. And it basically said this regime in Kiev is not interested in peace. And it went through all the whole story, the Minsk agreements, the breaches of the recent ceasefires. It looked to me very much as if the Russians anyway were.

preparing to tell all this to Wittgoth when he arrives in Moscow. And of course, this attack will crystallize it. But whatever proposal is made to end the war, even one which objectively is as favorable to Ukraine as the Kellogg Plan actually is. I mean, put aside all the all the hysteria, the anger, the accusations, the talk of surrender, the talk of appeasement, given the realities on the battlefield, given where we actually are in the war, given the stated Russian objectives, I mean, if the Kellogg Plan is accepted, at this point in time, it is a victory for Ukraine. I mean, it is, or at least it is the best possible deal imaginable that Ukraine could have. I mean, the Russians, as they made already very clear, have enormous issues with the Kellogg clan. I mean, they've all but rejected it. But, you know, even then,

the Ukrainians apparently don't want it. And I think it was what, David Sachs, who said, you know, a person who takes the stance that Zelensky does, even on a topic like Crimea, which shouldn't really be open for discussion because nobody ever expects Crimea to be returned to Ukraine. It's inconceivable that will ever happen if Zelensky is not prepared to make concessions even on the issue of Crimea, that he's clearly not interested in peace at all. And even the president's son, the U.S. president's son, Donald, Don Trump Jr., is endorsing that view. So yes, I think quite plausibly this assassination attempt is an attempt to wreck the negotiations. And presumably it will wreck the negotiations.

I don't understand why this process is being continued at all at the moment. I mean, it makes very little sense to me. Presumably, Trump is so invested on trying to get some kind of deal done because he's boxed himself into the position where he can't move forward. with the Russians on other matters unless there is a deal on Ukraine, that, you know, he just is dragging this thing out, trying to get a deal done. Whatever deal is done, the Ukrainians are now certain to reject it. Everything is misleading and is misdirection, it seems, smoke and mirrors from all sides, to be quite honest.

Well, absolutely. Bloomberg, they put out an article claiming that Trump is sending Whitkoff to Moscow in order to get Russia to accept Ukraine's right to military force. Nonsense. But there you have Bloomberg putting out nonsense type of articles. We had the Financial Times article, which was also nonsense about Putin accepting the – I forgot. What did he accept, the ceasefire, the freeze the conflict. Nonsense, right? Yeah. Nonsense. It's mis-sendance. It's mis- So you have the media misleading. Yes. Well, these are plants. These are clearly plans that somebody's making it to the media. People familiar with the matter, they say right. People familiar with the matter, exactly.

The point about the Bloomberg article, about, you know, trying to get the Russians to agree to allow Ukraine to have military, you know, to build up their armed forces to whatever level that they wanted to, that would imply that would imply that the Russians have already rejected that. Well, we know they would do. And you would said Winchoff. You would said Whitkoff to tell Putin this. Whitkoff is going to sit down with Putin and say you're going to accept Ukraine having a military? Absolutely. Yes. The whole thing, as you said, the whole thing makes absolutely no sense at all. I mean, the whole thing makes no sense in any respect. As I said, there is massive misdirection going on. So it makes it very, very difficult to understand exactly

what exactly what precisely is going on. Now, I'm going to make a guess. This is my best guess. I think that there is a deadline that Trump is working against, probably at the end of this month, by the end of this month. The point is, and there's been comments about this now from people within the British military, that the weapons, the arms, the shells supplied to Ukraine. by Biden in the autumn are now almost run out.

And if the war continues beyond that, Trump has to make a decision, does he just cut Ukraine off? Or does he exercise his drawdown authority, which he has not done up to this point to supply more weapons to Ukraine to keep the war going, maybe in the hope that there will be more negotiations? or perhaps eventually does he go to Congress and ask for a further appropriation. He's got to make that decision. And I think Donald Trump doesn't want to make that decision.

I think he understands that there's going to be political damage for him, whatever decision he makes. And so I think he's pushing as hard as he can for an agreement to be made this month because beyond that, he's going to be facing decisions in the United States, which are politically difficult. And I suspect that the Russians up to a certain point will try to help him. But I don't think they're going to make any fundamental concessions. And besides, why would they? Given that, as we've seen Zelensky, is going to reject any proposal, any conceivable proposal,

other than outright victory, which the Russians are not going to concede. Yeah, but going back to the whole misdirection point, wouldn't you say that the whole Krabbea thing is misdirection? I mean, we're all talking about a concession, let's call it a concession, which no one is asking for. And no one really cares about them, the Europeans, they're making it as if we reject the U.S.'s to recognize Crimea. That's what the Europeans are saying. We reject the U.S.'s decision. So that's bonkers.

That's crazy, but that's the Europeans. Zelensky is saying, I can't accept the U.S.'s recognition. I reject the U.S.'s recognition of Crimea because it goes against the Ukraine constitution. What has Zelensky ever cared about the Ukraine constitution? And who is Zelensky to reject the U.S.'s recognition of Crimea? What relevance is the Ukrainian? Constitution have to what the United States does. Exactly.

The United States is not bound by the terms of Ukraine's constitution. Zelensky is the US's puppet and not the other way around. It's nonsense. And then the whole concession of Crimea makes zero sense because the Russians never asked for it. They never talked about it. They don't really care if the US recognizes Crimea or not. They couldn't give two flying Fs if the US recognizes Crimea.

The same goes for sanctions relief. The Russians never asked for sanctions relief. We're coming up up to one year, Alexander, one year from June 2024 when Putin clearly put out his terms. Clearly, he spelled all his terms out. No one talks about in the Trump administration. No one talks about in the collective West mainstream media. We talked about it all the freaking time. But no one else wants to talk about Putin's terms.

They deliberately ignore his terms. deliberately. Yes. So my point is that this is all one big misdirection. Why is this all one big misdirection? I don't know. And I have to also say something else. Before you comment, Lavrov was on Face the Nation.

Yes. Which is significant. Yes. Because it does show that the collective West mainstream media is now actually allowing Russian officials to give their side of the story, which is very, very significant. Yes. But Lavrov, he came out in support of Trump. He said that Trump is the only leader that has recognized the root causes.

The only leader in the world, he said, that recognize the root causes. Anyway, your thoughts on all this? Because something is, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors and misdirection. Why, I think, is the million dollar question. Where is this heading to? Well, who knows? Who knows? I mean, there is a frantic effort to try to prevent any kind of,

kind of peace settlement and any kind of understanding being reached between the Americans and the Russians. And I think this is one obviously, but can I just say something? When you talk about Crimea, you're absolutely correct. First of all, it's important to stress this. Zelensky didn't just reject the point about Crimea that was in the Kellogg, in this proposal, this American proposal. he rejected the entire proposal. Why people are focusing on Crimea so much is really very strange because everything else was rejected as well. I mean, he was not prepared to accept any part of the proposal that was made. And in some ways, the most substantive and concerning point that Zolensky made,

was the one about Ukraine having the right to join NATO? Because the Americans are saying that's off the table. The Russians are saying that's absolutely unacceptable. Zelensky is insisting on it. And so, by the way, are the Europeans? So, I mean, that is much more important than the Crimean issue. And there's also a huge amount of lying about the crime in issue. You absolutely are the Russians haven't asked four.

for the Americans to recognize Crimea as Russian. There's never been a Russian demand. The Financial Times, by the way, in an editorial today admits that. It actually admits the point you just made that, you know, this is a concession that's been made to the Russians that they never asked for. So, I mean, it's meaningless. There's also an extraordinary amount of rhetoric, especially in the British media,

about how this would reward Russia for using military force to change borders and that this has never happened before since the end of the Second World War. Well, you live in Cyprus, which is part of Europe. You know that isn't true. We had a Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974. The Turkish army still occupied.

40% of Cyprus. But, you know, that is an event that, of course, we can't talk about. I have to correct you because the EU is going to approve the 18th sanctions package against Turkey, Alexander. That's right. That's right. That's right. Well, not the 18th thing. Of course, we're going all the way back to 1974, the 118.

118. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's... Anyway, go on, go on. But I mean, you know, the lying, the misrepresentation, the deception is just off the scale. Now, I think, as I said, I saw, we only got fragmentary bits of this interview that Lavrov gave. What Lavrov basically said is we haven't gotten agreement because the American, Trump, he was asked, Trump says there's a deal. Lavrov says there isn't a deal.

There's still work to do. There's points to still agree. There's things that needs to be fine. tune, but you're absolutely right. He's supported Trump. He said Trump is the only leader up to now who has actually addressed the question of the root causes of the conflict. The Russians are saying this all the time, by the way, that this is one reason why they are happy to work with Trump and have a certain respect for Trump because he's the only person who's looking at the substantive issues. It's absolutely true, but ultimately, ultimately, the Russians can help Trump.

up to a point, the decision, the final decision about what to do must be made by him. There's only so much the Russians can do if Zelensky is rejecting any proposal, which he clearly is, and that is not going to change, if the Europeans are supporting Zelensky. even Boris Johnson, supposedly Donald Trump's friend is now criticising Trump and supporting Zelensky. If the Europeans are going to support Zelensky, then I mean Trump should realize that this is over, that he's not going to get peace in Ukraine. He's not going to even get any kind of agreement in Ukraine that can last, or, or, or that can work.

And he should do that which he says he wants to or intends to do, which is walk away. Maybe that's part of this entire process. You know, Trump is positioning the United States as the mediator, which everyone knows is not true. Everyone knows the U.S. is a party to the conflict, including the New York Times, which outlined the entire thing in excruciating detail how the U.S. is. is at war with Russia. Okay, so everyone knows that's a fact. But, you know, Trump, the marketing guy, the messaging guy, he has positions the U.S., at least from a marketing messaging standpoint, as the mediator.

Yes. If you haven't been following the conflict in Ukraine, as we have, as our viewers have, if you're just some person who, you know, watches the news every now and now and again, you would probably say, okay, the U.S. is a mediator. Yeah. You would believe it. And that's a majority of the population, right? Not everyone in the world is hyper-focused on this conflict, as we are and our reviewers are.

So he's done that. He is saying that if he was president, this war would have never happened. He says that over and over again. Good. Correct. He's right about it. He's right about that, but he did send the javelins when he was president as well. So he did escalate.

Yes. Okay. Rubio is now also saying that, that we didn't start this war. He said it the other day. We didn't start this war. He said, we had nothing to do with this war. Trump has also said that. He said, this is Biden's war. He started saying that. Now Trump is also going further back in time. And he's talking about Obama. Now that we're talking about Crimea, he's talking about the history of how Crimea ascended into the Russian Federation via Obama. Yes. So he's maybe adding some context as to why Crimea is.

is part of the Russian Federation. And then I'll end it. I'll lend my point here with Lavrov during that Face the Nation interview. He also asked the reporter, when the reporter pressed Lavrov, are we going to get a deal in the next week? Lavrov said, you don't trust your own president? I mean, I don't know. How do you analyze all of this? Is the plan to walk away?

Is the plan to not walk away? I mean, I don't know. Is the perhaps a deal be worked out by the Russians and the Americans at the moment? Maybe that's why Whitgolf is in Moscow. But every other comment from every other Russian official, Zaharov, Peskov yesterday, Shogu yesterday, argues otherwise. So, I mean, it's difficult to see. I mean, I think that one of the things that I would say about Lavrov's comment is that he was also asked whether it was really true that Witgolf was on his way to Moscow.

And he said, you know, your president is saying that. You don't trust your president on this. True. Bear in mind that he also said. It was back to back questions. It was back to back. Exactly. And that excerpt looked to me as if it was heavily edited anyway.

So we haven't been provided with the whole text of the interview. and that might be important to get as well. But anyway, let's not waste too much time on this interview. I can't clearly see where this is going. But logically, logically, this is the moment when Trump has to make the decision to walk away. Because as he said himself, Zelensky, who is, remember America's ally, doesn't want a deal. he's made that absolutely clear. He doesn't want peace in any form.

He's no different from the rest of the Ukrainian leadership in this. There is no one else important in Ukraine who is likely to take over from him, who would take a different stance to the one that Zelensky himself is taking. The Europeans also are going to back Zelensky no matter what. And they're going to spread all sorts of false stories. about, you know, crime here, about negotiations with the Russians, about the Financial Times article about, you know, the freeze on the existing front lines, the Bloomberg article about getting the Russians to agree to allow Ukraine to build up its armed forces

to whatever extent it wants. All of those sort of things. So the Ukrainians are never going to change. The Ukrainians aren't going to change. I come back to what I said. I think that Trump does want to walk away or probably has come to reach that point. But he's also recently being out of his way to say again and again and again that he's not on anybody's side, that he is completely neutral. So I think he wants to walk away, but in a situation where he says that neither side wants peace, neither the Ukrainians nor the Russians. And I think this is really what this is now about, so that he won't have to.

he can walk away. He can then make his decision, said that nobody's interested in peace. He clearly doesn't want to impose more sanctions on the Russians. Notice that all the talk about that has gone. All the talk about more sanctions against the Russians has also gone.

So he doesn't want to do that. He doesn't want to continue involvement in the war. I think probably there is lot of theatre and choreography here. I don't really see much evidence of much in the way of a genuine negotiation taking place. I think that this is all about the United States doing an exit. Certainly, that is apparently what the British think. And I read comments today in the media, in the British media, that the Ukrainians think that also, and that the Ukrainians now believe that within a week's time, a further American aid to Ukraine will have ended.

That's what Bill is saying, too. And then we got the report about the U.S. blocking the tourist missiles as well. So that's indicative. Trump was asked in the White House about what concessions is Russia making. and Trump said Russia's not going to, Russia's going to stop taking over the country. He's going to stop taking over Ukraine. That's the concession. I mean, that was a pretty big statement from Trump.

He didn't talk about, you know, Russia's giving this or that. And if they don't give this or that, I'm going to place sanctions or anything like that. He just said it straight up. Straight up. Just said, look. The concession is that Russia doesn't take over all of Ukraine. That's a big concession. Yes.

You know, that might even be true. I mean, it's quite plausible. It is true. It is true. But what I mean by that is that the Russians might actually, I mean, they could say to Trump, look, even at the negotiations break down, we are prepared to state publicly in some kind of document that you can use, if you want to use, that it is not our plan to take over the whole of Ukraine. I mean, that might be something, a gesture that the Russians might make.

Of course, it might be overtaken by events if the war goes on. If Zelensky refuses, goes on refusing to negotiate, you know, things might play out differently. But the Russians could say, look, it's never was our intention to take over the whole of Ukraine. It isn't our intention now. we can give you this promise. You could take it away. You can show it to whomever you want. And you can say that that's the big concession that we have made, or at least big gesture

that we have made. Now, just to wrap up the video, your thoughts on NATO CEO, Routep in Washington, trying to convince Trump to not ditch Ukraine and the reports, or the reports from the telegraph, which said that Stamer and Macron, they're pulling back from. their whole peacekeeper reassurance, whatever it was called, reassurance forces in Ukraine, whatever, they're pulling back from that. What do you think that's all that stuff signals? Well, I mean, first of all, the last point signals the collapse of the coalition of the willing.

In fact, they're going further because they're now, the British are now blaming the French. Again, this is probably, you have to drill through the British media to see this. But the British are saying this whole crazy idea of deploying troops into Ukraine. at all. Wasn't our idea. It wasn't the idea of our glorious leader, Kirste-Arma. It was all Macron. Macron suggested it. We were for something much, much more modest. So clearly what's happened is that without an American guarantee, none of the other NATO countries that have forced military forces were prepared to commit. The British and French were not prepared to go by themselves. That would have been a four to five, eight thousand men at most, it would have been incredibly vulnerable to Russian attack.

The Russians have been making statement after statement after statement that it is unacceptable. The British military are known to be solidly opposed to this whole plan. So it looks like it's collapsed. But of course, we still have talk about sending trainers into Ukraine. No fly zones over Western Ukraine. that is still there. So, you know, that that hasn't, that hasn't unfortunately gone away completely. What Ruta, Macron and Stama are still trying to do is to get Donald Trump to agree to become

Joe Biden. They want him, their optimal position is to try to get back to what Joe. Biden was doing. Unlimited support for Ukraine, unlimited support for Ukraine's demands. People talk all the time about Russia's maximalist demands. They're not maximalist demands. If you look at the situation on the battlefronts, they're not maximalist demands. Maximilist demands would be true if the Russians demanded things that are completely impossible. It is Zelensky who is demanding things. that are completely impossible. Those are maximalist demands.

But anyway, total support for Zelensky's maximalist demands, unlimited military support for Ukraine. Now, the British and the French, Macron and Stama and Router, must know at some level that they're not going to get the Americans to do this. I mean, it is politically impossible, I would have thought,

for Trump to go back, to the policies of Joe Biden, that they want to be able to say when it's all over and when Ukraine collapses, that it was the Americans who betrayed Ukraine. It was Donald Trump. He's the man who's entirely to blame for the whole thing because he pulled the plug from under Zelensky, this heroic figure. And it was he who engaged in this chamberlain-like appeasement of, you know, the dictator in the Kremlin. And we in Britain, we in France, we in Europe did all that we could. But it was the Americans.

It was this cowardly man in the White House who's probably still got connections to Russia. But that was what he did. Because I can't seriously believe that at this stage in the gang, they generally, honestly, truly believe that Trump is going to reverse course completely. and start backing Zelensky to the Hilt and Ukraine to the Hilt and recommit to supporting Ukraine and impose more sanctions on Russia and do all of those things, which is so completely contrary to everything he's saying and appears to want to do. Yeah, all right, but anything is possible.

We'll see. It's a roller coaster, yeah. All right, we will end the video there. The durand.local.com. We are on Rumble out of Cepagee to tell the Graham, Rockfinn, and X, go to the Duran shot. 15% off, use the code Spring 15. Link is in the description box down below.

Take care.