The Duran Podcast - Frontline update from Kursk w/ Patrick Lancaster

Episode Date: January 25, 2025

Frontline update from Kursk w/ Patrick Lancaster

All right, Alexander, we are here once again with the great Patrick Lancaster. Patrick, how are you doing? Thank you for joining us again on the Duran. And before you tell us about what's going on in Kursk, you were recently there, where can people find you? What links would you like to promote or plug? Yeah, guys, thanks for having me on again. It's always great to be on to kind of cooperate. to show the world what they're not seen in other places, of course.

And yeah, I'm just finishing up a trip here in Kursk, where, as we know, months ago, Ukraine made an incursion or invasion or whatever you want to say on undisputed Russian territory. And they made quite an incursion with taking a lot of territory, but we can get into that in a bit. But yeah, I'm independent journalist and I've been covering the war, the Ukraine war since 2014 when it really started. And most of my large reports go on my YouTube channel,

Patrick Lancaster, and four other behind the scenes and long-form articles and things like this. The more of my work goes on my substack, So people should really find that and subscribe to that because they're going to get the most out of my work there for sure. All right. And I have those links in the description box down below as well as a Pint Comet. That's where you can find all of Patrick's fantastic work.

Alexander, let's talk about Kursk with Patrick. Indeed. Let's absolutely talk about Kersk with Patrick. Been there. And when we talk about Kersk, it's perhaps important to bear in mind what no lesser person that Vladimir Putin tells us about the situation there, because Vladimir Putin says that this is the most intense area of the fighting of all. He says that the Ukrainians have lost more men and machines in Kusk than they lost during their 2023 offensive in the summer 202023. He says that the fighting

has been incredibly better. And nonetheless, despite that, the Russians are continuing to advance, But we see that despite these continued Russian advances, the Ukrainians continue to hold on. And at the center, at the core of the battle, there is this small town of Sujja, which I saw the latest report say that the Russians now have covered with FPV drones, that the Russians are trying to control the communications networks leading into Sousja. but the Ukrainians are still sending reinforcements there, and the fighting, it seems, continues as intensely as ever. This is the only area of the war where, if you believe the mapping agencies, the Ukrainians are still able to conduct sustained counterattacks and do so.

And, well, Patrick Lancaster, you've been there. You've seen the conditions. Do you think that Putin is right? Is this actually now the place where the fighting is most intense? Yeah. It's really a hard situation on the front line in the Kursk region. Just finishing up with over a week of time on the front, on and off. I mean, it's really a difference scene here versus the fighting in Dumbos.

Just constant air coverage from the, as you said, Kamikaze drones, just all sorts of drones. We've got the kamikaze drones, the reconnaissance, the drones that just drop ammunition and everything in the middle. now there's even the reports of the Russian forces using the unjammable the optic drones which I haven't myself seen yet so I can't really confirm much on those besides the reports that are coming out but the drone warfare here is just unbelievable I mean it's such a psychological effects even more than it has been in the last two and a half years and this goes to

on both sides. The skies are constantly filled with hundreds of drones from both sides that can just be lights out for you at any seconds. And it doesn't matter if you're driving in a civilian car or military vehicle. I mean, my friend was killed just weeks ago and just outside Danyetsk, a journalist when the vehicle he was riding in with other journalists, a civilian vehicle, I'm sure you've heard, was hit by an ammunition drop from a Ukrainian drone. And this is not a one-off. I mean, they're just, Ukrainian forces aren't just, doesn't seem to be really giving any distinction between civilian vehicles and military vehicles. They just see something and they hit it.

But yeah, the front line situation is just really intense here. I've spent a good amount of time trying to really show the viewers what the situation of the war is. And I've covered everything between the Russian command and control centers of both the drone warfare and the artillery warfare. where they, we saw in real time how the Russian drones are being controlled from one place, whether it's by physically a remote control in this bunker, or just by orders going from one to another to the different pilots in different locations. And how those, that information that's being picked up by the drones is being disseminated to artillery, teams and being used by them to target Ukrainian physicians or Ukrainian equipment.

We saw several instances of Ukrainian equipment getting destroyed by these attacks. To ask the question that lots of people are going to expect us to ask, did you see any North Koreans when you were in course? Because, I mean, listening to the media story, there are at least 10, 12, 20,000 North Korean troops in Coast region. Did you, did you encounter any North Koreans? Did you, did anybody talk to you about the North Koreans? Did you see any sign or hear anybody say, you know, well, you know, the North Koreans aren't here, but, you know, if you go a little bit further along the road, you'll find them there. Did you have anything like that? I did not see any, and it wasn't for lack of trying.

Of course, as a journalist, I was trying to find out whether I could confirm or, you know, one way or the other about this. And I was not able to get with any contacts that were potentially involved with these so-called North Korean soldiers fighting for Russia. I was with both the Akhmat Special Forces group and the regular Russian army. And none of the areas I had had these North Koreans, of course there's rumors. But I didn't see any and got no factual evidence of them there. So I can't really, you know, unfortunately, without the, lack of trying, I can't confirm that they are there or not. No, of course not. Tell us about the physical conditions. I mean, the weather conditions.

I mean, I've seen pictures from Kusk. They show snowy landscapes, forests and things of this kind. It looks very different from Dombas. Am I right in saying that? Yeah, well, if you compare it to the Dynetsk area, Dignets is really flatter and, you know, in some areas where they have the almost mountains of the trash and the disposal dirt that they bring out of the mines. Those are the only real big hills in the Danyetsk area. But here in Kursk, it's really a lot more hillyer and wavy and quite a bit harder to, navigate, you know, going to and from positions. I went to several positions, and sometimes

there's just going through trees, going through trees, somewhat of cover, even though there's no leaves, but still, you know, bare trees helps a lot to cover you from the kamikaze drones. And then we just end up having to go across a large, field down and then up and you know that's really scary I mean because at any points if you get seen by a kamikaze drone I mean it could that could just be it and I mean constantly the drone detectors just going off going off

going off I mean it's because they're just everywhere all the the drones are just everywhere so yeah it was quite difficult to navigate it's a some point. And as far as the weather goes, it's been kind of really, I'd say in the middle. A lot of time, mostly frozen,

but still some areas of mud that you can tell would and has been a detriment to heavy equipment moving. So it was kind of some places frozen enough for the tanks of things to go over, but other places just, you know, swampish mud or just everything's sinking in.

Now, there's been lots of reports that over the last couple of months, the Russians have gradually shrunk the Cous Pocket significantly. The Russian Defense Ministry said that it had been reduced by about 65%. Does that accord with what you found when you were there, that it's actually got much smaller than it was when the Ukrainians marched in in August. Yeah, I believe the original numbers were over about 1,500 square kilometers, originally taken really fast by Ukrainian forces. And, yeah, huge amount has been recovered by Russia.

I mean, we saw that when I was there in the beginning of, well, the end. of August, we saw that starting when I was with the assault groups and I went with them taking back territory. But now so much of the territory has been taken back by Russia. And in fact, I was just days ago at one location, a village called Ruskoia-Poreshnoia, which just days before I I was there was taken back by Russian forces from Ukrainian control. And as we were on the way there, the commanders, the battalion commanders were saying, okay, at this point, we took this back three months ago. Now we're going farther at this point one month ago.

At this point, three weeks ago. And then we got to the final location in the village where it was just around a week prior, they had taken control of it back from Ukraine. I was the first journalist in there. And unfortunately, it was a very horrible scene. I mean, on the way there, we were going through the trees and the hills and valleys and things to get to the point because we couldn't take a car there because the drones would just have killed us, you know, before we got there.

But going through these trees and these areas came across several military positions of Ukrainian forces or what was the positions of Ukrainian forces. And, I mean, it was so fresh. I mean, the ground was littered with Ukrainian soldiers' bodies. And, you know, just in the few hours that we were going across to the village, I saw somewhere between probably 15 and 20 dead Ukrainian soldiers just littering the area from the days prior. And got to this village of Raskoya-Pershnoia, and unfortunately just virtually nothing left. Only things that were left were the doors you could see coming up from the bomb shelters or the cellars, you could say, storm shelters, looking like almost doors going into nowhere because they were the only door still standing. And went into some of these shelters, and unfortunately, they were.

filled with dead civilians that had just, you know, been left when Ukraine evacuated the area. The first shelter we went in, there were two bodies, which appeared to me to be two men whose hands were, one man had his arms tied across his chest. and so they appeared to be laying side by side on bags and had been placed there. They obviously there for a long time because with the humidity in the shelter, the bomb shelter, they were moldy. You can see. I mean, it was just like loaves of bread, just the mold growing across all their skin,

really fuzzy. and the second man had his arms tied above his head. I couldn't really see any entrance or the cause of death. There was one that had some bruising on his legs. It wasn't clear from being tied or exactly what it was. And as far as the arms being tied, not 100% a clear. post-mortem or pre-mortem, maybe they could, it's possible they could have been tied during transportation after they died or they could have been tied and put down there and tortured.

There's no, there's no way for me to tell. More investigation needs to happen. I was going to ask, I was going to say, I mean, this requires investigation. Yeah, definitely. You cannot arrive at conclusions from this, but from what you say. it's something that certainly should trigger investigations. Carry on. And I was pretty taken aback by that,

but little that I'd know that the next bomb shelter was going to be even worse because we got to the next cellar and it was a little bit deeper so it had stayed a little bit warmer. It wasn't frozen like the other one. so as soon as I started to go down I mean these are shelters that no one had been in yet and as soon as they started to go down I just got hit back by this

the overwhelming smell of just rotting human flesh and there had been a cache of gas masks left by Ukrainian forces. Those soldiers said they might have actually been American gas mask. It wasn't exactly clear.

But I took the opportunity to dawn one of these military gas masks so I could go down and document what was in that bomb shelter. And I did. And going down the stairs, I came across the first body that was under like a blanket. And then when I got to the basement or the bottom of the stairs, that's when basically, I mean, the only, the best way to describe it is, is just like a stew of just people. At the, the first, what I say, could have been one, it could have been two corpses at the very bottom of the stairs were just, you know, you couldn't tell where there was a leg here, an arm there.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you found bodies at the bottom of this in, in, you know, in, you couldn't tell where there was a leg here, an arm there. in decomposing conditions. Yes, yes. Was this true in other places too? Did you...

Well, basically, what appeared for these bodies at the bottom of the stairs, what appears that had it happened with the... My best logical opinion is that there was some sort of explosive device thrown down the stairs. Oh, my goodness. Like I said, the first two, as I said, but then farther back in the shelter, there was clearly a place where civilians had been taking shelter from the war. And there was several elderly, two elderly women there and another man.

And they were, their death wasn't clear what it was from, maybe it was from the same explosive that killed the others. And there was also a dead dog. So it seemed like it was, you know, a place frozen in time that just everyone died at the same time. Again, all of this clearly calls for investigation. Are the Russians launching investigations? Well, I'm sure they are, but now just because the fighting is so hard there, it's almost impossible to investigate at this point.

But one thing I can say for sure is these people, there's no question, died when Ukraine controlled that area. because just with the amounts of decomposition and just there's no question that those people died when Ukraine was in control. So if someone threw a grenade down that basement to kill that family or whoever it was, it was done by Ukrainian forces. There's no question about that if that's what happened. Yeah. Okay. Can I ask, did you see any living civilians?

Not just in Ruskoi or Porachnoi, but in the area that we're talking about. or have all of the civilians as many as them as could be been evacuated? I mean, what is your assessment about this? On the very front, in the areas that have just been turned back, I mean, no civilians at all, not one. Like in this village, not one living civilian. And in several other the village, farther back a little bit. it. Yeah, I saw a civilian here there, you know, when we're talking kilometers back from the actual front.

But at this point where I saw these dead civilians, I was just about 500 meters from active Ukrainian forces. So that's the, you know, the, to give a little bit of an idea of the actual distances. But as you get further kilometers back, yeah, there's a few civilians that have come back and whatnot. and tried to reclaim their lives even in this war. Can you just tell us a little bit about the Russian soldiers that you saw? I mean, some of them were Ahmad forces who were presumably Chetians, but others, you said, a Russian regular army. I mean, are they the same kind of units that we see fighting in Dombas?

Are they organized in the same way? And did the Russian soldiers say anything to you that you'd like to pass on to us? Well, as far as the Akhmat group goes, the only one that I met that's actually from Chechnya is the lieutenant general that I interviewed on occasion. And what's surprising to many and me when I first understood it, that the Ahmad's battalion our brigade is not just people from Chechnya. It's, there's actually two parts, well, several parts, but what they call the Akhmat Special Forces,

it's more made up of all people from across Russia. And that's who I was mainly with. And that's where I documented the drone warfare centers, artillery centers, and actually I documented the, actual engagement by 152 millimeter artillery shells fired on Ukraine. I documented that as well. And, of course, the launching of the winged, unmanned aircraft as well. All that can all those can be found on my channel.

But there's a big difference, I would say, between, say, the Ahmad and the regular army. but obviously both pushing in taking more territory day by day and as far as things that the soldiers told me I made a point to ask many of them about the possible peace plan or promise of peace by Donald Trump

and everyone said that They hope he can do something to make peace because everyone that wants people to stop dying. It's a horrible situation. And I asked him, okay, how, what can he do? And I show, it's easy. Stop the supply of weapons to Ukraine. Yeah. And then everything will slow down.

But, yeah. It doesn't seem to be. Patrick, you've given us an extraordinary, very comprehensive account. How close to Sujia are the Russians, by the way? Just last question I'm going to ask. And then, of course, if you want to add anything further, but do you have any estimate of how close they are? Because we're getting lots of different stories,

and the Ukrainians are giving their account and the Russians theirs. Are the Russians near to Sousja? You know, I wasn't on that particular side of the... The fighting, sorry, I mean, I would, there seems a few kilometers, but, you know, my, the target where I was was a little bit on the different direction. But one thing we could say is, you know, Ukraine is not making any territory back in the opposite direction. No. Despite what we saw in the Western media not long ago about the new Ukrainian offensive or counterattack they called it. And in fact, the village that, or one of the villages that Ukraine targeted during that counteroffensive was the village of Burdine.

And I also went to that village and just days after the fighting and again saw just a village not totally destroyed, but littered with Ukrainian. soldiers' bodies and Ukrainian troops, equipment, destroyed Ukrainian equipment. And there was a little bit of active fighting while I was there and many drones, just, you know, seeing them go back and forth overhead and all that. And to back up a little bit, back to the Ruskoia-Pershnya village where they had just just taken control of days prior. One thing I didn't mention is we found a destroyed U.S. Bradley vehicle. So this is a Bradley vehicle supplied by the United States, taken into Kersk,

main Russia, and destroyed by Russian forces. And also found several other Western supplied vehicles. that were destroyed. It was a time a little hard to identify all of them. But the main one that stuck out was the Bradley. And so many drones just littering the fields. I see. Well, Patrick, is anything else further or is this a good place to stop?

I mean, you've given us an absolutely astonishing account of the fighting. And a very harrowing one. I mean, what do you tell us about the civilians, the dead civilians you saw, is deeply disturbing, can I just say? And can I also say that if something like this had been found in a Ukrainian village, which the Ukrainians had been recaptured, I guarantee you, it would be the absolute number one headline all across the international media. So it's very, very, well, it's not good, but it's a great thing that you were the

there to document it because I don't see that anyone else in the West is doing so. But is anything else you wanted to say? Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, you're right. I'm just glad I have been able to document these things. And, you know, I could say this has been one of the scariest trips in quite a while for me. I mean, just going across the field, just thinking, you know, a drone can hit you at any time. And, I mean, it's really difficult.

just thinking of my family and everything during the whole time. But, I mean, like you say, if I, there's no independent English reports coming out of course since the last time I left months ago. So it's, you know, unfortunately, if I'm not doing it, it's not going to be done. And we've got to show the world what they're not being shown by the Western mainstream media. I mean, I'm not telling everybody I have all the information, but I'm trying to show the little piece of the pie. They're not going to get somewhere else. Of course, watch things on both sides, get as much information as possible. And people need to think outside the box, open their mind a bit.

Don't trust one source no matter who it is. Because if they tell you they've got all the information, they're just lying. I mean, it's a fact. But as far as when the fighting is going to wrap up in Kursk, I asked several soldiers, including the lieutenant general, and got many different answers. Some thought maybe by the end of January, but that was kind of the low end, the fast end.

Others said in February, March, something like this. So the overwhelming opinion of the Russian forces, or at least on-the-ground fighters, is that Ukraine is going to be out of Kursk in the next months. Right. Well, that's important in itself and that's the soldiers on the ground and they're probably the best people to assess this. I will ask one other question actually, a quick one, which is that you've described the incredibly stressful conditions that you experienced in court. Those conditions presumably are shared by the soldiers as well. What was your sense of their mood? I mean, were they determined to keep fighting? did they want to be posted somewhere else? What was their state of mind? Well, yeah, I think they're happy they're alive.

But one thing I was told years ago by Russian soldiers, the way Russian soldiers are able to get through war is they have to understand that they're already dead. And if they happen to make it through the battle, then that's just a bonus. and I mean just you know really just mind right I couldn't do it I couldn't stay in the front every day and do what they do and in fact there was one one medic that I interviewed for several times while we were going to the front a young kid 20 years old just been on the front or a soldier for a year not not mobilized not drafted anything just volunteered because he was a medic and he wanted to help him his country. And hours after we said goodbye and I left and stopped filming, he got hit in the face by a bomb

dropped by a drone. And so it's, and apparently he's in the hospital now, but just, you know, any time, any of them can just lose it and they know it. They know it. Patrick Lancaster, thank you very much for one, I have to say one of the most astonishing and interesting and important conversations we've had with you. Be careful for yourself. I mean, we say this to you in every program.

We massively value what you do. I think you do a tremendous service to anybody. You're one of the great chroniclers of the war, but try and stay safe. We'll do. Thanks for having me, guys. Thank you, Patrick. Once again, before we let you go, the links where people can find you. follow your work?

Yeah, my YouTube channel is the meat of my work where the big reports go. Patrick Lancaster, find it on YouTube, no problem. And then Patrick Lancaster on Substack. And, you know, that's all the extra stuff, the long-form articles about each of my reports, and much more go. So you got to, those are the two main things. Of course, we got Twitter and Telegram and things like that. But the two main things, YouTube and Substack, you got.

to get on. All right, those links are down below. Thank you, Patrick. Take care. Thanks, guys. It's been great.