The Duran Podcast - Globalist Ukraine Nihilism. Trump last chance to get US out of catastrophe

Episode Date: November 27, 2025

Globalist Ukraine Nihilism. Trump last chance to get US out of catastrophe

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the diplomacy surrounding project Ukraine, a 28-point peace plan that was later amended to become a 19-point peace plan that Russia has rejected. Now you have Woodcoff heading to Moscow. You also have these leaked audio calls that many people in the swamp and in Europe are talking about. I personally think that the transcripts that I've read from these calls, whether they're true or not, I believe they're mostly true, but there's nothing scandalous in these calls whatsoever. But anyway, they're using these calls as some sort of an excuse to go after Whitkoff. The deep state, some U.S. lawmakers are also suggesting that Whitcock be fired. And, of course, the media, Europe and Ukraine, they're running with the narrative that this proves that Russia. drafted the 28-point peace plan.

Whatever. It's all about sabotage. It's all about sabotaging these negotiations between the U.S. and Russia. Anyway, what are your thoughts on all the diplomacy that is taking place? A very chaotic diplomacy that is unfolding. But it does appear to be a serious effort between the U.S. and Russia to try to find a resolution, which, as you have said many times, and we have said many times on the Duran, it's all being driven by the collapse of the Ukraine military on the front lines.

If the Ukraine military was not collapsing on the front lines, we would not be going through any of this. Exactly. And that's the first thing to say, and it's the most important thing to say. This is an exercise in trying to get a peace settlement together, which will preserve Ukraine and prevent the Russians. from taking Kiev, before the situation on the front lines becomes so bad that that eventuality arises. Trump does not want to have a situation where there is a fall of Kiev moment during his presidency,

and he gets blamed for this. And what happened throughout the summer, especially after Anchorage, is that Kellogg, Waltz, Rubio, there was even a meeting. We know about this meeting because it was reported in the media by friendly voices in the media supporting Rubio, Wals and Kellogg. They all told Trump that the situation is not as bad for Ukraine as you've been told by the Russians. The Russians are making it look as if it was worse than it really is. Ukraine is holding its own. The Russians are losing hundreds of thousands of men. In fact, it is Ukraine, not Russia, which is winning. And incredibly, Trump went along with that.

And now about four weeks ago, suddenly he realized that that's not actually the situation at all. It's about the time when the Russians announced that they'd surrounded the Ukrainians in Pachrosk and Kupiansk. And so we've had this massive rush. We're getting Trump and he's brought in Whitkoff. He's brought Whitkoff back. He's brought Kushner in. the team that succeeded, as he believes, over Gaza, and he's told them, for heaven's sake,

get this plan together as quickly as possible. And they've cobbled together, something which I think you've absolutely correctly described from what we could see, not an actual peace plan as such, but a whole list, a menu of items that they're going to try to do. Exactly, that they can present to the Russians.

Based to some, extent of what Putin and Trump talked about and understood and agreed with each other about in Anchorage. Anyway, to put it all together as quickly as possible, they've been talking to Dimitriov, who quite clearly was not involved in drafting this. I mean, he's made that clear. Rubio has said that too, and Rubio would, I think, not be saying that if it were not so. Anyway, so Dimitriv was not involved, but at least Witgov and Kushner made an attempt to speak to the Russians.

They spoke to Whitkoff, they spoke to Ushikov as well as the leaks are showing, and they've tried to come up with what I think we should accept as a good faith attempt to try to find a negotiation, to get. a negotiation going and a deal done before Ukraine collapses. Now, the trouble is that there are lots and lots of people in Washington, in Europe, in Ukraine who don't want any deal at all. I personally believe that given a choice between a deal and a Ukrainian collapse, they would prefer a Ukrainian collapse to a deal. I think it is the nihilism that we're looking at is as bad as that. And they are working overtime to throw this thing into confusion and to make it unviable and unsuccessful.

And they are succeeding. And one of the reasons that they are succeeding is firstly because Trump himself and Kushner and Whitgolf. don't know how to conduct negotiations at this level. I mean, trying to cobble everything together, a cocktail napkin deal in this kind of way. It's absolutely not the way that you should conduct negotiations of this sort. What there ought to have been, I've discussed this many times,

we ought to have had a proper US negotiating team with the chief negotiator, meeting with the Russians, aren't regularly in some capital or other, Ankara, Istanbul, or Heaven's knows, even Geneva maybe, meeting regularly. There should be a Russian chief negotiator and American chief negotiator. There should be a large body of skilled negotiators behind them and experts as well. They ought to be talking and discussing the various points, clarifying the points. there ought to be back channels too. And out of that process, a real proper deal emerges.

But of course, that's not how it's been done. And I don't think I've come to the view that it is impossible for it to be done. Because in order to create a negotiation of that kind, you would need the entire American political system in agreement with that kind of process. So in the 1960s, they did agree with it. They agreed with that. So that was how Salt won, how the Helsinki final act, how the Paris negotiations with North Vietnam were conducted, given that the entire political system, the deep state, everybody, the bureaucracy, opposes negotiations of that kind. It is impossible to conduct negotiations of that kind. So instead we have this chaotic process, And it's failing.

And it was bound to fail. And one of the key reasons why it's failing is obviously because it's not be conducted properly, but also because there is clear sabotage by one of the individuals who ought to be taking this process forward. And I'm going to say it straightforwardly. The person in question is Rubio. So Rubio, instead of doing what he ought to be doing, which is contacting the Russian. going to Moscow, meeting Lavrov, trying to take this process forward. He takes the whole team to Geneva.

He meets the Ukrainians. We have the Europeans coming into the process. And the result is that what was proposed and to some extent discussed with Ushekov and Dimitriev is being altered and changed. and it is increasingly deviating from the understandings that Putin and Trump reached in Alaska, and now Lavrov and even more clearly, Riyarbkov, the deputy foreign minister of Russia, are saying this is unacceptable. What is coming out of this process isn't going to work,

and Riyabkov, who is the hard man, then the Russian foreign minister, but undoubtedly who is authorized in what he says. He made a big statement in which he said that the Russians are not going to make any further concessions beyond the concessions they made in Anchorage. So that basically kills this entire process even before it's begun. Why is the EU, Ukraine, the neo-cons in the U.S. against this 28-point peace plan? at least the plan that we've seen. Let's not go into the 19 point peace plan. Why are they against the 28 point peace plan where it is obviously a peace plan that preserves and saves Ukraine? It arguably freezes the conflict. My point of view on that 28 point peace plan that was leaked by Ukraine, if it is indeed the plan that Rubio and Whitkoff put together. It calls for a freeze in Herzson in Zaporosia. Even in Donetsk, it calls for a freeze.

It masks it. It masks it with a DMZ, but it's a freeze. Why would they be so against this when it obviously preserves Ukraine to fight another day? That's what it effectively does. And from my understanding of things, the 19-point plan that was amended by Yermak and Rubio is even more tilted towards Ukraine and even more against Russia. The reports are that it removes military limitations. It takes out the clause about Ukraine not being allowed into NATO. Why so much pushback against Trump? Is it just the idea of the United States talking to Russia

that they hate? Well, to answer your question, the answer is yes. But let's say, Let's just go to your first point because one of the things that very few people seem to understand is that this proposal, the original 28-point proposal, which by the way is the proposal the Ukrainians have published, we don't know what exactly. But that's what we have. But that's what we have. That would be unacceptable to the Russians for exactly the reason that you said. In fact, the Russians have never said that they agree to this.

All that they have said is that there are some very good points here, and we could treat this as a basis for negotiations. But the DMZ in Donbass is a non-starter, as far as the Russians are concerned. Of that, I had absolutely no doubt. The provisions about the Ukrainian army, an army of 600,000 men now increased to 800,000 men. That's an absolute non-starter, too. The provisions about Russia's use of Russia's assets in all kinds of ways. That's a non-starter. We could get through it all point by point. But, I mean, yes, it's something that could be put forward as an opening to a negotiation,

but it is not a deal that the Russians would consider acceptable. And this is where we come back to the point you've just made, because this ought to be something which, logically, the West should unite behind. It preserves Ukraine if the Russians could be brought to accept it. It preserves Ukraine. It opens ultimately, in my opinion, the door. for Ukraine to join NATO. It doesn't actually significantly cross any Western or Ukrainian red lines.

But of course, they don't want to have a negotiation between the United States and Russia. Everything that has happened since Donald Trump became president again in January shows that The one thing that they want to stop at all costs is a serious negotiation between Russia and the United States, which might conceivably lead not to a rapprochement between Russia and the United States. Nobody's really talking about that. Nobody's talking about a situation where we could be back in the situation of, you know, Gorbachev and Reagan and all of that. but even some kind of day-tant. What they want is a situation of permanent confrontation between the West and Russia,

and if that means sacrificing Ukraine, because now I think everybody quietly understands that Ukraine is going to lose. Well, so be it. It's more important to prevent a detent between America and the United States, than it is to preserve Ukraine. That's why I said at the start of this program, that there is a total nihilism about the way in which this whole thing

is being conducted from this point. And look at the ruthlessness and recklessness with which they're behaving. Stama and Macron both resurrecting their proposals to send European troops to you. Ukraine, which of course the Russians have already made it absolutely clear that they're going to reject the re-wording of the 28-point proposal into a 19-point proposal, which the Russians would definitely consider unacceptable. And the selective leaking of conversations between

Uschikov and Whitkoff and Dimitriyev and Whitgolf. And Whitigov. which you absolutely rightly say are entirely innocuous in themselves. I mean, I read them. I can't see anything there that anybody should take any serious objection to. These are people trying to move towards a deal, and they're discussing some of the mechanics of doing it. There's nothing there that in any way breaches red lines or implies in any way that the Russians have drafted these.

28 points. I mean, the suggestion that they have is absurd, but you can already see another, a new campaign to get Witgolf sacked, claims that he's a traitor in some ways. I mean, you know, that's already circulating on X, comments of that kind circulating on X, media campaigns, all of that sort of thing going on in order to disrupt this process. It staggers and astonishes me. And ultimately, it's irrational, or at least to me it is irrational. And like everything that is irrational, it is extremely difficult to understand. But these people want confrontation with Russia, and there is another thing as well.

They do not want to give a real success, a genuine success, to Donald Trump. They don't trust Donald Trump with Russia. They still believe that at some level, Donald Trump does want some kind of a rapprochement with Russia. They don't want his presidency to be successful in any possible way, and they don't want to give even the smallest opening for Donald Trump to pursue that reprosement with Russia, which they, of course, are all united in opposing. In a weird way, the loss of Ukraine. Ukraine, Ukraine losing to Russia militarily in a very weird way serves the purpose of the EU, of the EU globalists, and serves the purpose of the neocons, because they'll be able to keep the escalation going with Russia.

They'll be able to say, okay, well, look what Russia did in Ukraine. Look at their aggressive military actions in Ukraine. And this aggressive military victory in Ukraine, they won't say victory. They'll say this aggressive military occupation of Ukraine. And now they're going to be coming after Europe. They're going to be coming after the Baltic states and Romania and Poland, et cetera. So we need to keep on pouring money and weapons into Europe for an eventual confrontation with Moscow.

And on the flip side, they'll blame it all on Trump. Exactly. Everything will be blamed the Europeans. They'll blame it on Trump. The media will blame it on Trump. All the blame will go on Trump. So they'll get the escalation that they want. They'll get the money and the weapons pouring into Europe that they want.

Yes. And they'll blame it on Trump. And most likely you're going to have a midterm outcome, which is going to favor the Democrats, heavily favor the Democrats. And then they can start the investigations and the Russia gate 3.0 against Trump as well. So for them, keeping the military conflict going is paramount. Even if they have the chance of getting a deal that is more in Ukraine's favor than Russia's favor, a deal that is a freeze. Now they don't even want a freeze, to be quite honest. They really don't want to freeze.

They would prefer the military war to keep on going because they've planned it all out. Absolutely. They get the escalation. They get the blame on Trump. And the midterms will most likely lead to some more Russia gate investigations from the Democrats. Absolutely. Already the narrative of Russia wanting to conquer Europe has been massively, massively spread across the European public. So if Ukraine falls, they can go around telling everybody, we are next.

We are next. So what must we do? We must integrate. We must centralize. We must strengthen the EU institutions. We must consider Eurobonds, we must confiscate Russian assets. We cannot obviously have any contact or discussion with these aggressive and terrible people in Moscow. But at the same time, we can press forward relentlessly with all of those things that we want to do in Europe.

And centralisation in Europe, and we can also continue to do those things, which we want to do in the United States, which is basically to uproot and destroy. not just Donald Trump himself as an individual, but the entire political movement that has developed around him. And you can see how a defeat in Ukraine of Ukraine would serve that purpose. There is another factor at play, and it's one that you have discussed many, many times, which is of course the financial flows, and you've just touched on it too. Because of course, this war has made a lot of people very, very rich.

We now have stories about vast sums of money, tens upon tens of billions of dollars going into Ukraine and out of Ukraine and finding their way into Estonian banks. And some of it finding their way back to European politicians and some of it from Europeans, from Europeans all the way back to the US. I am not going to discuss the details of this because I don't know what the details, the true details are. But the overall picture that we have seen from all of this, I am sure is true. I mean, the laundry, the great washing machine of money that is swirling around, they don't want that to stop. In fact, they wanted to continue for as long as possible. And if they get the outcome that you've just described a military defeat in Ukraine, and when you're quite right, they won't call it a defeat.

They will say that this is part of a long conflict and that it's East Germany that must be reabsorbed or given back its independence and all of that. Trump didn't supply the weapons. He didn't supply the Tomahawks. It didn't supply the F-35. It's his fault. They will blame Trump. They'll also blame Biden, by the way. I mean, they've already been saying this, that Biden, but even Biden didn't do enough and Trump didn't do enough.

And it wasn't that the Russians won. It's that there was a lack of will in Washington that led to this. So they weren't acknowledge it as a defeat in any conceivable respect. But as a result, they'll be able to pretend that the conflict is going. going continuing and you know the washing machine the money is going to continue to function and the wheels are going to continue to spin and all sorts of people not just people who are currently in Kiev but in Brussels and Frankfurt and London Paris they will continue to get that money and Washington of course as well and last but not least as you

absolutely rightly say, they can then move the dial on the investigations. So instead of the kind of investigations that we've been hearing about, investigations into money and golden toilets in Kiev and all of those things, we start to investigate people in the Trump administration. Whitgo, for example, is he really an agent of Moscow? We can further easily see how all of that is going to start in a year start. It's already starting with these leaks. My question to you is, Trump should just get out of this. I mean, I don't know how many times we have to say it.

Is it too late? It's still not too late. I mean, okay, he should have done it on January 22nd. Yes. But now he's gone through this entire process. He believed Kellogg. He believed all these people that were telling him the Russian economy, Bessent, the Russian economy is imploding, Ukraine is winning. He went through all of that. He believed all of it, to his detriment.

He believed it all. It looks like now he has to face reality. It's impossible to ignore reality. Russia is winning, and they're winning big. My understanding is that they're advancing very quickly. They're winning big. You can't ignore this reality. Even Trump cannot ignore this reality. So we're trying to get this deal. Fine. It's worth a shot, I guess. But if it doesn't happen, Trump is going to be blamed for all of it. Trump needs to get out now before the midterms. He's got about a year. Yes. Until the midterms, right? Yes. If this thing does not work out, and most likely it will not, then my thinking, I'd like to hear your thoughts, is that Trump should then absolutely get out of this. Because if he continues to remain bogged down in Ukraine, it's going to go

exactly as you said, the Democrats are going to win, the investigations are going to start, is Whitkoff a Putin puppet, is Trump a Putin puppet, is Trump a Putin puppet, is Jared Kushner a puppet puppet, is Baron Trump a Putin? I mean, it's not going to end. Exactly. They're going to resurrect the entire Russia gate thing and the media is going to be 100% behind it. The Europeans are going to be behind it. Lindsay Graham, his buddy is going to be behind it. Mitch McConnell, who has resurfaced, is going to be behind it. Yes. If this thing does not pan out, Trump absolutely needs to just say, that's it, I'm done,

I'm done. I don't want to hear about Ukraine. I don't want to talk about Ukraine. I don't want to deal with this subject anymore. I completely agree. I absolutely agree. And by the way, he would have, I think, understanding and support from his base, obviously, but even from the wider American public, if he took that.

stand, getting involved in the negotiations, as we said more than a year ago, back in August 2024, I can remember the program, when we first discussed it, getting bogged down, trying negotiations is a trap. Negotiations are for him, a trap. They will never achieve the outcome of a deal that he wants. I mean, if he's still got some ideas of winning the Nobel Prize, I mean, an idiotic thing to want anyway. I mean, that is absurd. And all it is doing is it's destroying his presidency,

which is exactly what we want would happen. That's what we said back in August 2020. That's what we said. It's going to devour his presidency. because as you absolutely rightly said, if things go wrong in Ukraine, which of course they will, they will blame him. And by the way, and this comes to another thing, when all this crashes, which it will, probably as soon as next week, perhaps it might take a little longer.

But when it crashes and burns and fails, this latest peace initiative, if he isn't extremely careful. All of the usual people, Lindsay Graham, Richard Blumenthal, Mitch McConnell, the deep state in Washington, the media, they will demand escalation. They will say, look, it's absolutely correct. Ukraine is now having problems. But what we need to do is force the Russians to the negotiating table, which of course we all know what that really, what they really mean when they say that, you know, is force the Russians to capitulate. So crank up the sanctions even more. Go for secondary sanctions.

Start supplying or deploying Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine. Do all of these things. Really crash the Russian economy. You have it in your power, Mr. President, to do that. And of course, again, they know perfectly well that if he does do any one of these things, it will intensify the crisis. it will make the defeat even greater, the military defeat greater, when it comes, but they will still blame him for it,

because whatever he does on that side, they will always say it was not enough. And, of course, secondary sanctions and all of that will not break the Russian economy, but they will trigger further inflation in the West, which will further upset and antagonize the U.S. electorate and his political base and make his defeat in the midterms even bigger than it would otherwise be. So he's got to be aware of all of this. He needs to understand now that this is basically his point of no return. Either he stops and gives up negotiations and does exactly what you said, or he's going to find himself going further, further up and up and up on the escalatory escalator, and he will never find a way off.

Lavrov not being involved in these negotiations, if you want to call them negotiations. Why is that? Ryapakov, okay, he's the deputy foreign minister. He's finally come out with a statement. Yes. But for the most part, it's been Wittkov, Ushikov, the Imitre of, and

Secretary of State Rubio. You do have the top U.S. diplomat involved. Yes. But it appears as if you don't have the top Russian diplomat involved. Why is that? Well, that's an excellent question.

I mean, I think, again, the person who's been trying to run these negotiations in Moscow is ultimately Putin. And Dimitriyev and Ushikov are answered to Putin. They're not, they're outside the foreign ministry. Yeah, they're not in the foreign ministry. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I think again, and this is an important point to say, is that the Russians, This is where the Russians are, I have to say, they are useless at this. What they were trying to do, what Putin was trying to do, was again they were trying to help Kushnet and Whitcomb. They were trying to help him along.

They said to themselves, if we start bringing the foreign ministry in, then this will indeed become a negotiation and it will fail before it even starts. because Witkoff and Kushner by themselves don't know how to present a coherent proposal to us. So Putin said to himself, let Uschikov and let Dimitriyev, both of these people speak excellent English. They know the United States. Uschikov, by the way, was ambassador to the US, Russian ambassador to the US. Let them try to explain privately through these confidential channels, the kind of things that we really do expect to see in the proposal that's put forward so that when it is presented to us, when it's presented, in other words, of the foreign ministry, we aren't simply forced to reject it. It was a dreadful idea, actually. And again, it again shows. It again shows. It again shows.

the extent to which the Russians, and of course here we're talking about Putin himself, simply do not understand the reality of how things work in Washington, because it was inevitable that this whole process was going to be leaked in Washington. I mean, that the whole story would come out, that probably Kellogg would alert the media axios and the financial times to the fact that these discussions were under. a way that we'd have these strategic leaks appearing in the media and the way that they are. It was, it was, and that the Americans, Rubio would insist on talking to the Ukrainians and the

Europeans first. So it was, again, the Russians not understanding how Washington works and getting it all hopelessly and disastrously wrong. One can say that, you know, Russia is in some ways a massively perversional operation. In military things, in the foreign ministry, they are. But when they try to do this, in this sort of way, it goes disastrously wrong because they don't understand public relations. and the importance of the media's aspect of things in the US. I'll give another example.

I mean, this meeting between Drisco and the security people in Abu Dhabi. The Russians are absolutely furious that that was published, that that was published, as. Ushikov is saying that Driscoll turned up. They didn't expect him there. He'd obviously been invited by Pudanuf. It's a very interesting meeting, by the way, all together. And there's some speculation now that, you know, this is all connected to the Pachrovsk situation.

And you remember there was the business with the Budana of sending the men on the helicopters. And I speculated that the Americans, rather than the Ukrainians, are trying to extract someone from Pachrovsk. And people are now saying, maybe this is what all of those talks, in Abu Dhabi were all about, the Russians are saying that they did not discuss the peace plan and that the people from the intelligence agencies were not in a position to the Russian intelligence agencies because this was far above their pay grade and all of that. And the Russians are furious that the whole thing was made public. Of course it was going to be made public. I mean, it was inevitably going to be made public. When the Russians heard that Driscoe was,

was in Abu Dhabi, they should have made it absolutely clear if they didn't want to meet Driscoll and they wanted to meet, keep this back channel with Budanov's secret, they should have made it clear that they didn't want any involvement by the Americans in it. But there it is. The Russians, as I said, are, I mean, there's no better word to say, they suck at this kind of thing. It looks so bad that they met with Bhudanov, the Russians. It looks so bad that they had a meeting with Butanov, unbelievable. Well, one can understand at some level why intelligence agencies from two competing sides meet and stuff.

It happens during the Second World War, for example. But having said that, it's still not something you should do. And if you are going to do it, make sure that it is indeed kept secret and confidential. And you should know perfectly well that it's not going to be. If the Americans are involved in it, it absolutely isn't. Anyway, Ushikov, when he spoke about it was absolutely, you could see he was absolutely furious. But the people they should be angry with, the Russians should be angry with, ultimately, is themselves. Because they constantly let themselves get drawn into these situations.

What the Russians should have said right at the start, what Putin should have said. But he did say, I remember he said it to Trump in the very first call. But what they should have insisted on is, look, we're going to have no contacts at all until and unless you put together a proper team of negotiators and appointed chief negotiator. We're not prepared to have these strange meetings, Wickhoff coming to Moscow, Kushner now also going with him. We cannot conduct negotiations about such a complex issue in this way. No good will come of it.

But, as I said, they were under pressure from their allies to make a deal. Putin has said so, and I believe him, by the way, on that. They have other reasons, no doubt, from Ponting a deal. And they let themselves get drawn into this cesspool, which is what it is. Yeah, just a final thought to close out the video. Trump should also go on the offensive and go out. after the lepers of these calls. There are reports that this could be coming out of European Intel, it could be coming out

of UK Intel. Yeah. It could be coming out of the US, deep state intel as well. But there's also reports, interestingly enough from The Guardian that say what Bloomberg actually got was the audio. They didn't even get a transcript. They actually got the audio, which is very significant as well. Trump should go after these people.

Absolutely. I'll tell you what I think. tell you what I think, this is my guess, obviously. I think it was the American intelligence agencies that were recording all of these calls. Or they got the Europeans to do it for them. And or they got the Europeans to do before them. All they passed on the recordings to their British friends. It seems to me, so that they can then get the British or the Europeans or whoever it was to leak it. And they can, that puts a distance between whoever it was in Washington who was behind this and the actual people who contacted Bloomberg and all of that.

But as I said, I mean, to say a few things about these calls briefly, if that's the worst in these calls, then these are just nothing. I mean, they don't suggest anything bad to me. But you're absolutely right. Trump should be beside himself with anger about this. and he should be coming after the people who did this. All right, we will end the video there, the durand.locals.com.

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