The Duran Podcast - Lavrov demolishes UN nuclear watchdog IAEA

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Lavrov demolishes UN nuclear watchdog IAEA

All right, Alexander, let's talk about Iran and Israel and the United States and the comments from the Trump White House about the obliteration of the nuclear facilities and the mainstream media saying that those nuclear facilities are not obliterated and Trump coming back saying they're obliterated and the mainstream media saying they're not obliterated. And we have a lot of talk and a lot of focus on the obliteration of these nuclear facilities. But we also have moves being made by Iran, Russia, China, Pakistan, maybe even India. A lot of things are going on in the background that no one is talking about, but we're going to talk about it. A lot of focus is being placed on Trump's statements about the destruction of the nuclear facilities.

But this is far from over. That's my sense of things. Maybe we have a pause, maybe a couple of months pause. Maybe everything's going to shift back to Project Ukraine, but Project Iran is far from over. Anyway, your thoughts on everything that's going on. Yeah, well, let's quickly discuss this question of whether or not the facilities have been destroyed or not destroyed. We are not there. We cannot say the Defense Intelligence Agency has published this report, which says with low confidence that they think that the facilities have not been destroyed. Now, that's the only report I'm aware of from an intelligence agency which exists, which has properly assessed a situation. We get all kinds of other people. Tulsi Gabbard now, John Radcliffe, of course, the president of the United States, Pete Hegseth, who are all telling us the opposite things. None of them, as far as I can see, address these substantive points made from what we know about the defensive.

intelligence agency report. There's been, I think, a very strange article by Seymour Hersch. A lot of people are talking about, which as far as I could see doesn't take us any further. It comes up with all sorts of strange theories about, you know, ancient Troy and Schleiman and how people took inspiration from that, which I cannot believe, by the way. I mean, the idea that the Pentagon has not planned meticulously for years in advance. attack on Fordor and it needed somebody to look at what Schleeman was doing when he was excavating Troy in the 1860s. It's, I think, absolutely nonsensical. And it does make me wonder about the kind of people who are feeding Hirsch information. But the key thing to say is, it is all a red herring.

If the Iranians have extracted the enriched uranium from Fordor, as it seems they have, And by the way, that article by Hirsch doesn't address that possibility. But if they've extracted it, if they have other nuclear sites as well, which apparently they do, if they still have centrifuges, which they probably do, there's talk and pictures of another facility that they're building near Natanz, which is browning much, much deeper even than Fordor itself was, then ultimately they still have a functioning program. That's the thing we need to be worried about and thinking about. And going back to what we have said in many programs now, and which I notice increasing numbers of people are now finally saying,

the International Atomic Energy Agency has discredited itself with respect to Iran. The Iranian Parliament is passing a law, which apparently means that Iran is no longer going to cooperate, with the International Atomic Energy Agency. Rafael Grosse is speaking with great alarm about this. He's saying that this is an international legal obligation of Iran's. He's absolutely right, but then he himself has acted in a way that would trash that obligation, as Lavrov and the Russians are pointing out.

What that altogether means is that Iran now probably has a functioning viable nuclear enrichment program that the IAEA and the outside world will have no knowledge about taking place anywhere in Iran, and we might not know exactly where we're not going to have reports or information about it, except what Iran itself chooses to provide. And that is a very, very bad situation. Indeed, and that's the one that we need to be focused on, not whether or not the caverns in Fordor have been destroyed, they probably haven't been, not whether Ford though is retrievable. My guess is it probably is. Ultimately, it is what has happened to all that enriched uranium. And that brings us to your second point, which is that this looks more like a

pause than a final outcome, because given that the enrichment capacity in Iran still exists, and the Iranians are still talking about pressing on with it, it seems to me that sooner or later, in some way or rather, we're going to have a rerun of what we've just seen. Because as you correctly said, in previous programs, which we have done, the red lines have been crossed, the tribunes have been broken, sites which the IAEA was supposed to be protecting have been attacked. the IAEA has, as I said, abdicated its responsibilities in this crisis, and we are in a situation now where inevitably further escalation at some point looks extremely likely, especially given that the Israeli objective all along remains regime change in Iran. So that's the first thing I want to say here. Now, there's lots of other things going on, which we do need to address.

because they are very important. They're going on under the radar. But I think that the points that I've just made are the points that people need to understand about all of this massive debate that's going on at the present time. Okay, so before we get to all the things that are going on behind the scenes, especially from the side of Iran, the IAEA. Yeah. The IAEA, they brought this all onto themselves, right? They put out that report on Thursday. Lavrov talked about this as well at a forum that he was speaking at. And he basically said that the IAEA and Grosy was pressured by the Europeans, by the United States, to put out a report that was not favorable to Iran in order to give Israel in the United States the excuse to attack Iran. the next day after that report was published, the next day we got the attack.

So that's what Lavrov said at this forum. So as far as the IAEA going back into Iran and Grossy being upset and panicking and saying he can't find the uranium and we need to do something, he did it to himself. The IAEA is at fault for not being able to go into Iran. It's their fault that they can't go into Iran. they brought this all onto themselves. That's the first point that I would like you to comment on. And the second point, that I would like you to comment on before we get to what's going on with Iran, is that the obliterating of the nuclear facilities.

It is important, my view of this is that it is important for the hawkish, the Iran hawk neocons, to make it clear, to get the narrative out there that the facilities have not been destroyed completely. They've only been set back for a month or two, and then Iran's going to restart again because I believe that that's going to be their excuse to go into round two of attacking Iran. Now, they've run into a problem,

And I think the problem, it sounds a bit crazy what the problem is, but I think this is what the problem is. They've run into Trump's ego. And it's not that Trump is against going into conflict with Iran. I mean, he's already done it once. There are people in his administration, I believe, that are against conflict with Iran. But I think Trump, the president of the United States, his ego, because he came out, and said during that statement, they're obliterated, his ego will refuse to accept that they're not obliterated.

So he is going to remain firm on saying, no, they're completely destroyed, completely destroyed. Where the neocons, they're saying, no, they weren't completely destroyed because we want to go back in there in a couple of months. And Trump is saying, no, I said they're completely destroyed. They're completely destroyed. He's not going to be able to accommodate the neocons and their push for. for conflict with Iran. And he does have a contingent in his White House, which doesn't want a conflict with Iran. And they would like to further the narrative that the nuclear facilities are

destroyed and Iran can't get nuclear weapons. But Trump himself, I believe this is about ego. I think he refuses to say that the mainstream media is right. And this wasn't the greatest military operation in all of history. He was in charge of the greatest military operation in all of history. That's how important this is for Trump. He wants to say that. I ended the 12-day war by attacking Iran. I destroyed the nuclear facilities. I saved the world. The greatest operation ever. Give me a Nobel Peace Prize. I mean, what do you think about what are floating out there? There is an information war going on, which is completely separate from the reality of what happened in Fordor Natanz and Esfahan.

For the record, just to give my own view, which is a completely in-expert one, I think Fordor has probably survived. That seems to me to be the expert consensus independent of what all of these intelligence reports and all of that are saying. But the point is that you're absolutely correct. The neocons are not interested. They're not focused mostly on Iran's nuclear program. They want regime change.

And the narrative that they're putting out, and you can see it, if you go to their various threads, their commentaries and all of that, is that the way in which to stop Iran completing its nuclear program is to achieve regime change in Iran. You can't destroy the nuclear enrichment. facilities. You can't destroy fordor. You can't do these things because it is somehow beyond your technical capacities to do. So you've got to achieve regime change in Iran. The attack, therefore, by definition, was incomplete. It did some damage, but it can't have destroyed the whole facilities. So therefore, you must renew the attack on Iran. You must do so in a few weeks and a few months time.

so as to finally destroy the regime in order to prevent it moving forward with its nuclear weapons program. That is what the neocons are about. Their focus is and always has been regime change in Iran. If you go and read what they've been saying over the last 36, 72 hours, it's absolutely clear. And that's why they don't want to admit, or at least they don't want to say, that this strike was that successful. Probably, that was why the Defense Intelligence Agency report was written. Probably that is why it was leaked, because the way in which was leaked was extraordinary. Just a few hours after it was written, we get reports circulating all across the media,

telling us about its existence. They are undermining the narrative that the strike was successful. They're saying that the facilities still exist. They're still operating. They can still be brought back into repair. Iran has been put back just a few months, a year at most. We haven't managed to achieve what we set out to do. It doesn't look as if it's possible to achieve it by simply attacking the enrichment facilities, those sort of places. This time, the next time we attack, which must be done. within the next few weeks and months, we must go for the head of the snake. We must aim for regime change against Iran. And that is exactly what they're planning. And you're completely correct. Trump doesn't want to go there. He says this has been a tremendous success.

It's been a spectacular, complete and wonderful success. He doesn't want to admit that this attack that he launched, an attack which he launched against the wishes of his base, that it was anything less than a complete total and absolute success. His own vanity, as you absolutely rightly say, is now tied up with this. All of the top people in his administration, Tulsi Gabbard, John Radcliffe, Pete Hedgeseth, Taddy Vans, all of them are basically being told to go out there and to him from this, you know, sort, you know, this repeat this narrative that it was a tremendous, complete success

that to pretend or claim that it wasn't somehow undermines the courage and professionalism of the Air Force pilots who carried out the attack, which is, by the way, I mean, that's not true. I mean, they were undoubtedly professional and all that. But I mean, whether it succeeded or not It's a technical question. It's not, it has nothing to do with their own competence. But anyway, they're going out and they're saying all of this. And again, that is setting Donald Trump against the neocons. Now, my guess is that there is also something further that goes beyond Donald Trump's vanity and ego and all of those things. And that is, and you go back to that series of posts that we talked about in a previous program, one of our live streams. recent live streams that Trump published the day when he announced the ceasefire.

Because you saw him start, you know, about keep the oil price low, prevent, you know, don't give help to the enemy, then dig baby drill, then, you know, all of those things, one following off to another, and then finally he suddenly announces the ceasefire. could see the alarm growing throughout that thread. And clearly one of the things that was worrying him was the moves by the Iranians to start, they were taking the first steps towards closing the Straits of Hormuz. He doesn't want that. He does not want a long war with Iran. He knows his base won't want that. He probably was getting information about the fact that the Israelis were indeed running out of air defense missiles and all of those sorts.

to things. So I think that at some level, Trump himself and also other people within his administration, Excess probably, Vance, almost certainly, but others too were beginning to worry that the whole situation was getting out of control and they were seeing that the Russians might be becoming involved and all of those things. So that was another reason why they wanted it to stop. And And probably those same people will now be telling Trump, for heaven's sake, don't listen to the neocons, don't go back, don't start it all over again. We have only just escaped a disaster if we go in again because the neocons want us to complete the project, as they say, by achieving regime change in Iran, then that disaster

might actually come. So I think that in the last comments that we've seen coming out of the administration, 90% of it is the question of vanity and ego on Trump's part. You cannot afford and bring himself to concede any possibility that this attack was anything other than a complete and total success. But I think that there is a sliver of strategic calculation there also. Yeah, I would say a lot of it is tied up to domestic politics. Like you said, absolutely, he's thinking about his base. I mean, it would look really bad if he had to backtrack and say, well, we didn't really destroy those nuclear facilities. So we did all of this bombing of Iran.

And I came out and said obliterated, like 10 times I said obliterated and completely destroyed. But now, you know, they haven't really been destroyed. That would be a disaster for Trump. on a political domestic level. It would not be good at all. So, yeah, definitely there's that calculation in there as well. But once again, before we get to Iran, most likely if the Trump White House wins this narrative war

against the neocons, they'll think of something else. They'll think of a different excuse to go after Iran, right? Of course they will. They'll drop the facilities thing and then they'll think of something new. Absolutely. I mean, you know, they can come up with any. number of reasons, you know, backing Hezbollah, backing Hamas, doing subversion, all of that kind of thing.

I mean, what is it we always say about these people, that they have no reverse gear? I mean, they got their first taste of war against Iran. As you rightly said, the taboos and the red lines have now been crossed. They're not going to stop there. They've now got themselves on the first steps of the escalation. escalator. And they're going to start pushing and demanding and agitating and insisting that we go all the way up and that we start an unrestrained missile and bombing war against Iran, which they will confidently say will cause the collapse of the regime there. I mean, that is what they're

going to be demanding. If you look at some of their comments, as, you know, I was saying that they're already saying that. They're linking it for the moment. to the enrichment program, which they say has survived. But if they can't win that argument, they will come up with another one. And whatever argument it is, they will come up with and they will push and they will push relentlessly. And large sections of the mainstream media will repeat it. And it will become the main talking point. And it will lead us again into an attack on Iran.

Trump will give into the nuclear. He'll play along. He'll play along with video cons, right? Yeah, well, that's very likely. I'm afraid that's what the events of the last two weeks have suggested. Yeah, okay, so let's talk about Iran and China and Russia, Pakistan, India. What's going on here? Well, this is the other side of the story, which of course, nobody wants to talk about. So, firstly, the Iranian foreign minister, Arachshi went to Moscow. He had a meeting with Putin. The Russians have provided a transcript to Putin's introductory words. Putin for the first time, I think we've already talked about it, use the word aggression

to describe what had happened against Iran. He was clearly talking about Russia providing military and other assistance to Iran. Obviously, we didn't get the whole details, but they are clearly there. And we know that the Russians have in the past offered Iran help with air defense systems, and I'm sure that they will push again this idea of a defense pact between themselves and Iran. But in a sense, that's only a small part of the story, because completely unreported. I'm not seen it reported anywhere in the media in the West. There is currently underway in Singdao in China a massive meeting.

of defense ministers, chaired by the Chinese defense minister, the Russian defense minister is there, the Iranian defense minister is there, the Pakistani defense minister is there, the Indian defense minister is there, they're all there. And of course, what will they be talking about? They will be talking about this active aggression that has been committed against Iran. Bear in mind, when the Russians talk about an act of aggression, they will have coordinated that with the Chinese and with their other allies. So there will be a consensus at this meeting that there was an act of aggression. And the Iranians are already talking about the Iranian defense minister thanking China for its support and assistance. that suggests that the Iranians are also asking for and are likely to get assistance from their various allies,

China, Russia, Pakistan, the other Shanghai Cooperation Organization states. And just as this is almost certainly a pause that we are seeing in future attacks, I'm going to say that we are now almost certainly in a situation, where over the next couple of weeks and months, we're going to start getting more and more people from China and Russia especially. Perhaps Pakistan, too, turning up in Iran, helping the Iranians finally sort out their many problems with their internal security systems, their cyber warfare, which apparently doesn't exist in Iran. They have no capabilities as far as I can see in that regard at all. and finally start working to get for Iran a functioning air defense system.

And of course, as that happens, the neocons in the United States, because the United States and the Israelis will pick up on all of this, they're going to start saying that there has to be another attack on Iran soon, because if there isn't, then Iran's air defense systems will have been hardened to the point where such an attack becomes very difficult and very dangerous and maybe even impossible. And I am already seeing reports that they're saying that unless an attack on Iran takes place this year, in other words, they will be pushing for a further attack this year, then all this assistance that Iran is going to start getting from the Eurasian states is going to make it impossible

or at least very difficult to do it beyond that. But that assistance is going to come. I know many people are skeptical about this. The point is Iran was offered assistance before. It foolishly rejected it. Now that offer of assistance is being made again. That was clear from that meeting in Moscow. This is clear from this meeting in China. Ballot assistance will now start to come. And overtime, it's going to change the entire dynamic of the conflict. Is this military assistance also a way to keep Iran signed up to the MPT? Yes, I think so. Because of the nonproliferation. I mean, right. I mean, in a way, it's to try

and prevent Iran from moving towards a nuclear weapon. And signed up to the NPT by saying we're going to give you all of the security that you could possibly need. Yes. This is now, I think, this is the other major urgency. Because to repeat again, Russia and China do not want Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. J.D. Vance said that, and the Russians were furious with J.D. Vance talking for them. And they issued a very strong statement about that and that they were very angry with him for doing it. But what J.D. Vance actually said was true. And it shows you how angry the Russians are about the whole situation. It may also show that the Russians are in the course of very sensitive discussions with the Iranians. And they didn't

want somebody like J.D. Vance to make those comments because it might have come across in Iran as if Russia and the United States were working together to try to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, which is not optics that the Russians want to present, and they don't want the Iranians to want to think that. But both Russia and China, for overlapping reasons, and because they are both committed to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, want Iran to remain a non-nuclear state. So they're going to say to Iran, don't go down the route of further nuclear enrichment. Don't weaponize the enriched uranium that you have. Agree with us that we will help you to ensure your security. And in return for that, you don't need to go nuclear.

so. And this, of course, takes us back to the internal debate that undoubtedly is continued to happen inside Iran. People like Pezishkan, he's made it quite clear that he does not want Iran to become a nuclear weapon state. But there are others within the military and security services who insist that after what has happened, that is the only real guarantee of Iran's security. So there's going to be a very complicated discussion now going on within Iran. And you can see that the Russians of the Chinese are going to want to play a role in shaping it and making sure that Iran accepts assistance and at the same time does not move forward with its nuclear weapons program.

Yeah. Basically, round two is going to start up in a couple of months, maybe even sooner with Iran and Israel. Yeah. Now, can I just say something about me? negotiations. It is going to be much more difficult to get these negotiations together now than it was before. Because without the IA being involved, who is going to conduct the inspections inside Iran? Well, the Russians can. There's no trust. There's no trust. The Russians can. But then, of course, you've got Lindsay Graham and people like that saying, you can't trust the

Russians. So there's enormous problems. And going back to the IAEA, I think there is something we have to say here. And it's not just what Lavrov was talking about, that the IAEA did this absolutely terrible report, you know, digging up stories about what Iran was doing 20 years ago, which we've discussed in many programs, in order to justify an attack upon it now. Unfortunately, there are rumors circulating inside Iran, which point to an even more ugly reason for why Iran might have no trust in the IAEA anymore. And that relates to the assassinations of all of those Iranian scientists. And unfortunately, the Iranians apparently believe that the reason that the Israelis were able to come after all of those scientists and knew which scientists to go after is because they were being

provided with information by the IAEA. Now, I don't know that that is true, and I want to stress that, and I hope it isn't. I would hope that it was, that the IA had no part in any of that, and of course the Israelis have lots of sources of alternative information, and it may be that they were able to obtain that information some other way. But there are now concerns in Iran that not only was the IAEA materially assisting the United States and Israel and the NICONT in effect to carry out this operation against Iran by getting these resolutions past saying that Iran was in breach of its non-proliferation obligations, but that it was actually involved in providing intelligence and information about the Iranian nuclear sites and the scientists, which the Israelis were able to use

to carry out the attack that they did. Well, just to end the video, Lavros' point at this forum was that these organizations, like the IAEA, I'm sure he meant the ICCC. as well. The OPCW with Syria, remember that. That these organizations, which are all part of the U.S. system, the U.N. system in one way or another, are also part of the U.S. collective West system. That was Lavrov's point, that all of these organizations in one form or another are pretty much compromised and are just doing the bidding of the collective West. To what extent that is, Okay, I mean, you're just explaining.

We don't know how deep that goes. But at the end of the day, their goal is to take the orders and to execute the orders of their collective West leaders. Absolutely. I mean, we start from the known fact that they published this report about Iran being in breach of its obligations based on things Iran did 20 years ago, which are purely historic and of no relevance to the situation. today. Unfortunately, after what has happened, that has led to these other much uglier suspicions.

Now, I personally have no doubt about what needs to be done at this time in order to rescue the reputation of the IAEA, which is essential for the long-term survival of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Rafael Grossi needs to resign. I think that point needs to be made very, very, very clearly now by more and more people. I don't say things like that at all likely. I mean, it's not for me, perhaps, even to say it, but I think that he needs to consider his own position, the reputation of his own agency and the very, very dangerous situation in which we are finding ourselves in now. Grosse, coming out and say that the Iranians now need to provide information about where their enriched uranium is through the IAEA.

I mean, it is almost ridiculous after all that has happened. And it's incredible that he doesn't seem to understand that. Well, he's panicking. He's panicking and deep down inside, you would like to think that deep down inside he knows that he did something very bad, catastrophically bad, horrific, yeah. Yeah, because, you know, just, I mean, you know, you've explained the report that came out on the Thursday right before the Friday attack. But, you know, the nuance is not going to be reported on and is not going to be discussed in the mainstream. What they're going to take, what they took away from that report was Iran is close to a nuclear weapon.

That was the title, that was the headline that they wanted out there. IAEA says Iran is close to a nuke. That's what they ran with. And that's all that most analysts and most people are going to discuss. And that's what they're going to get from that. That's what they got from that IAEA report. Well, exactly. And that was all that Israel in the United States needed.

The story was, IAEA says Iran is cheating. That was what was said out there. That was the way it was presented. And that was the story with which the Neocons, the Netanyahu government, and ultimately the United States administration all ran with. So, you know, this is an incredibly bad wrong thing that they did and restoring the reputation of the IAA, which is very bound up with the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. I would have thought was now an urgency because of, without a functioning IAEA, which can be trusting, how are we going to get out of this mess?

Who can trust them, though? Who can trust these organizations anymore? I don't only speak about the IAE, I speak about the ICC, speak about the OPCW, all these organizations. Who can freaking trust them anymore? And once again, if you go by what Lavrov said, Lavrov was basically implying, not grossy. He manipulated the the title, the essence of what the report was saying, he purposefully made it look as if Iran was cheating. That was what he wanted to get out there at the behest. Lavrov said, this is not me, this is what Lavrov said at the behest of the Europeans and the Americans.

Absolutely. I mean, that's, that's damning. It is absolutely dumb. And I mean, people should actually read what Lavrov said, because it's absolutely scathing and it shows the extent to which the IAA has now lost the confidence of one of the great powers and that in itself ought to be a reason to resign for Grossey to resign. But can I just say you're absolutely right, putting the situation in the IA back to the point where outsiders, like the Iranians, can trust it. I'm not, I don't see how it can be done. And it's not going to be done in a few months either.

So we're still in a very dangerous moment and this crisis is not over, at least not for the moment. The only thing that's holding us back from a further escalation is whatever diplomacy, the Russians and the Chinese can achieve with the Iranians and the pressures within the administration, both from those people who have more of an understanding of the dangers of the situation in the Middle East. And as you correctly said, Donald Trump's own ego and vanity, his absolute refusal to accept that this attack on the nuclear facilities was anything less than the complete success. Very thin, very, very weak threats. Yeah. Once again, I want to, I want to

stress the point that this is not me or you saying this about the IAEA. This was Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, who was implying this about Grossi and the IAEA. I mean, he was furious. Well, the Russians are furious with the IAEA altogether. They'd be making that absolutely clear in statement after statement. The Chinese are also angry. There was an editorial on global times, which also in rather more measured language, as you expect in China, was also very critically. Yeah, let's end the video, Alexander, but let me just read very quickly and we'll put it up on the screen what Lavrov was talking about at the forum.

Lavrov emphasized that the UK, France, Germany, and later the United States used the IAEA's manipulated findings to push an anti-Iran resolution through the agency's board of governors falsely accusing Iran of violating the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, the NPT. That was Lavrov. And to repeat again, the secretariat, the leadership of the IA, can never have allowed the organization to find itself in that position. Yeah, he said the West exerts very serious influence on international organizations and has even privatized them to an extent.

Lavrov said, most such bodies are no longer guided by the requirement of impartiality. Lavrov further warned that if the IAEA is allowed to inspect Iran's peaceful nuclear facilities, the concern is that this information could be leaked, as there are no confidentiality safeguards in place now. IA. Director General Rafael Grosy could have provided a more precise report, he said, but where are the assurances that this information won't be leaked? I see no such safeguards. He criticized Grossey's demands for immediate access to Iranian sites,

questioning the agency's ability to protect sensitive data from hostile intelligence agencies. I just wanted to clarify, once again, this is what Lavrov is saying about the IAEA and Grosier. Do you have any further words, Alexander? No, I don't, except to point out that these are the words of the foreign minister, not just of a great power, but of the great power, which since 1968 has been the strongest in defending the nuclear non-proliferation regime and upholding the treaty. The Americans have not always been perfect in this regard. China probably has been, but then it's only become a major nuclear power relatively recently.

The Russians historically have always been strong supporters of the treaty and of the IAEA. All right. We will end the video there at Duran.orgals.com. We are on Rumble, Odyssey, Pitchie, Telegraph, Rockfinite X. Go to the Duran Shop, pick up some merch like what we were wearing in this video update. Link is in the description box down below. Take care.