The Duran Podcast - Meloni tries to break free from her EU rulers

Episode Date: August 12, 2024

Meloni tries to break free from her EU rulers The Duran: Episode 1984

All right, Alexander, let's talk about what is going on in the European Union. And let's focus on Georgia Maloney and Italy. She recently was in China. And it looks like Maloney is starting to look towards the east, to look towards bricks again, or at least to look towards China again. She did cut off the one-belt one road, but it looks like she's having buyer's remorse, if you can call it that regrets about doing that. I imagine Maloney sees the terrible state of the European Union.

I imagine she understands that the EU economy is getting hammered that NATO and the European Union, the collective Westgate getting hammered by Russia in Ukraine. And perhaps she's looking elsewhere, sensing that everything in Europe is collapsing. But she is still a prisoner. Italy is still a prisoner to the European Union and the Euro and all of the slush funds and the money that is going to get dished out to Italy and withholding that money and all of the tools, as Ursula once famously said, all of the we've got tools that the EU likes to use in order to to blackmail, I guess you could say. I don't know if that's the correct word. Member states to doing what they command them to do. do. Anyway, what are your thoughts as to what is happening with Maloney and Italy? I think what has happened over the last two years since Maloney became Prime Minister of Italy is that she's tried very, very hard to work with the EU,

with the EU Centre. She's gone out of a way to support their policy on Ukraine, even though it's unpopular in Italy and with many members of her coalition. She's cut off the economic ties, the trade ties with China. She pulled out of the Belt and Road Initiative. She's worked extremely hard to try to build up a personal relationship with Ursula von der Leyen. And I think what she's discovering is what everybody who tries that course eventually discovers and who is not themselves completely mentally, you know, part of the EU project. which is that it is never enough.

You give these people what they want and they come back and they ask for more and more and more. It's a good piece by Conner Gallagher about all of this in naked capitalism, which I think describes the situation very well. Over the last few weeks, the relationship between Maloney and Ursula has collapsed. I mean, where they appeared to be friends. there was, Maloney was apparently getting more and more frustrated that Ursula wasn't actually consulting her about key decisions, wasn't treating Maloney herself and Italy as the kind of big player in Italian, in EU affairs that given the size of Italy's economy, it ought to be, she was getting

frustrated that she was being pushed out from, you know, decisions at the level of the European Parliament. She, therefore, held back for a time on backing Ursula, Ursula's re-election, as European Commission President, and of course Usula herself, not at all a forgiving individual, as we know, and tensions between Ursula and Maloney are now out there, out in the open. And we have seen all of the usual techniques be used, investigations of what the government in Italy is doing, restrictions on the media, suppose restrictions on the media. When all to say, always it's restrictions on the liberal media. That worry the EU, you know, when it's restrictions and other types of media, they tend to be rather more supportive of it. But when it's restrictions on the liberal media, what they say are restrictions on the liberal media.

I don't see much sign of these restrictions myself. But anyway, Italy's already been investigated over this. There's also pressures. And this is the big concern that Maloney must have. There's pressures on Italy from the fact that next year, the recovery program that was provided to Italy during the pandemic is due to end. She will want to have this extent. in some way because it's been Italy's economic lifeline.

Otherwise, the debt and economic problems in Italy will grow. And it's clear that the EU is now putting pressure on this, that they're not apparently very key to extend. They don't want to, or at least they're playing the usual games to try to force Maloney back into line. So she is now starting to reach out again to China. She went to Beijing. She met with Xi Jinping.

It's all smiles, all agreements to restart the relationship all over again, basically to reboot the relationship between Italy and China. Of course, the Chinese are in some ways practical people, but they won't have forgotten that Maloney pulled Italy out of the Belt and Road, and, you know, they won't entirely trust her. But anyway, it's what the only thing it seems to be that Maloney can do, because in all other respects, she's increasingly looking like she's boxed in. She lost a lot of traction with a sort of, you know, insurgent right wing. parties that have been rising in Europe by aligning with Osula and with the EU centre. She's, I suspect, over time, going to start to lose support in Italy itself. But she's discovered what everybody finds out and what we would have warned her about,

which is that if you try to ride the tiger, which is the EU, it will eventually swallow you. And that, it seems, is what's happening. And in the meantime, you see that she's getting very frustrated. You see her facial gestures when she meets EU leaders, the rolling of the eyes, the looks of exasperation. She's not very good at concealing all of this. She doesn't have that skill which politicians eventually acquire, looking like you're the best of friends with somebody that you really don't like. And you can see increasing signs of this.

Pictures of her with Macron, pictures of her with other EU officials looking stony-faced, angry, exasperated, impatient, frustrated. But at the moment, it's not clear what she's going to do. Yeah, we've seen this before with Greece, with Cyprus. They run into trouble with the European Union, and they try to figure out a way to get out of their debt. crunch and the back of the EU is leveraging whatever funds or debt or whatever it is and they're

leveraging that to to push austerity to push any other neoliberal projects that they have in have in mind for for the member state and and eventually they they go back to the European Union and they submit they go to Russia they go to China they talk about low. loans, they talk about business. We've seen it with CPDUs. We've seen this before dozens of times, to be honest, just from Greece and Cyprus alone. We've seen this dozens of times. They run to these countries and they think these are going to be the lifelines.

These countries will help us out. And China and Russia in the past, they have made offers of loans and deals to EU member states, specifically Cyprus. I remember they made a deal. And in Greece, too. But they always run back to the European Union. And then they just, you know, they submit. it and they do whatever the EU tells you to do.

So, I mean, would Maloney be any different? No, she's not. I mean, I think the comparison with Cepras is actually a good one because though as personalities, they are completely different. I mean, Maloney is in some way a much more substantial figure than Cepras was. But Cepras did exactly the same thing as Maloney has tried to do. He became Prime Minister of Greece. He appeared to be leading a radical.

program and party that promised change. He thought he could negotiate space for himself with the EU. He went along with all kinds of EU policies, sanctions with Russia, all of that kind of thing, thinking that that would buy him credit in the EU. He then discovered that it brought him no credit at all and that with the EU, you know, it's winner takes all. They will always insist on total compliance and demands that you give all. In Tsipras's case, of course you did. Maloney is in a stronger position than Cyprus because Italy is a far bigger and much, much more powerful country. But ultimately, I think she will do exactly the same. You're getting signs of frustration, signs of exasperation, I think they're all signs that she senses that the ground is slipping

underneath her and that eventually the pendulum will shift back to the old discredited, exhausted, corrupt EU establishment within Italy, which one must never forget has very strong support from a certain section of middle-class opinion in Italy, as you will find right across the EU. People whose savings are in euros and who are terrified that if Italy quits the EU, the savings will evaporate. Older people who prefer to have their pensions played in euros than in lira. And of course, those people who continue to be completely, you know, assimilated. to the idea that the EU represents some great idealistic project, embodying the virtues of European civilization,

something that they won't give up on. And we both have met lots of people like that. And there are a lot of people like that in Italy. So if Maloney, she's not, I was going to say, if what if she does take a different path but there's there's no way out there's no way out yeah and she's not prepared to take italy out of out of the EU not even not even close to to prepare to do that so so all of these exercises of going to China and trying to create all of these deals and and open up business for Italy with China and do something with bricks countries I mean this is

what's the point yeah the reason an alternative. I mean, you know, one shouldn't say that there isn't an alternative. There is a, there is a potential alternative, one which, you know, a stronger, more courageous Maloney might indeed follow. One which is to sort out her issues with Marine Le Pen. She and Marine Le Pen, Marine Le Pen wanted to work with Maloney. Maloney basically because she wanted to remain on good terms with Oscellois. She made it clear that she didn't think much of Marine Le Pen, spoke about him, acted towards her in a very, very insulting way.

But make common cause with Marine Le Pen, who's clearly in the ascendant politically in France and who might conceivably become French president in 27. So you might start building something. like that work to build stronger relations with Orban and with with

Feizzo in Slovakia. Spitz of course is politically on the left. You could you could in theory do that. You could work to create a bit. She ditched her bad. She ditched her by. Exactly. You could you know get back into working with those people. sort out a real proper dissident bloc within the European Parliament.

In theory, that line, that option still exists. I mean, it would mean, you know, reconciling with people who she's not been at all. But, you know, she's been frankly rude to. But I think Orban and Le Pen and the people, who, you know, the IFDA people and all of those would probably accept it. The trouble is, I don't think she's going to do it. Just like you, I think she's seen the European leaders. She's frustrated with them.

She understands now the kind of people they are. But I don't think in the end she's prepared to break with them because I think she still senses that this continues to be this big block within Italy that wants to continue with the EU project no matter what, and she's not prepared to take it on. And I think she's also afraid of the political turbulence that might follow. And I think she's not prepared to do it. So I think this is probably we're going to see more frustration, more anger from Maloney.

Gradually, as I said, the pendulum will turn and we'll see the old EU centre re-establish itself in Italy. This is going to go on for a long, long time, until eventually the economic and social structures becomes so completely dysfunctional that the whole thing breaks down under its own way. But it's clear to me that for the moment, anybody who's looking for a fundamental challenge to the EU from places like Italy, even Hungary, you know, from the IFDAIR, whatever. We're very far from the point yet where there is such a big crisis within the EU that the system is really ready to break. Agreed.

All right. We will end the video there. The durand. Dot local.com. We are on Rumble Odyssey, Bitchie, Telegram, Rockfin, and TwitterX and go to the Duran shop pick up some t-shirts like the t-shirts that we are wearing today in this video the link is in the description box down below take care