The Duran Podcast - Putin and Trump shock world. Zelensky downgraded. EU, UK got played

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Putin and Trump shock world. Zelensky downgraded. EU, UK got played

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the phone call between Trump and Putin. The phone call, the truth social post from Trump, the Kremlin's statements, the interviews that, the not interviews, the press, the mini press conference that Trump gave, as he was in the room with Tulsi Gabbard, who has now been confirmed as director of Intel, of DNI. of National Intelligence. And we also have Pete Heggseth and the comments that he made. Wow, Pete Heggseth.

He actually made his comments before we got the call from, the announcement of the call from Trump and Putin. And all of this was very well timed right before the Munich Security Conference. So let's begin. Where do you want to begin? Well, I mean, yesterday was an essential.

astonishing day. And a lot of this, I think, I mean, the theatre, there was a lot of, there was a lot of theatre, by the way. And I, I'm not sure to what extent it was planned like that. But, you know, if it was planned like that, then it was planned brilliantly. And I, I think I would say this. I mean, you know, all of these things all happening, one after the other, again, it's the, it's what we see from the administration. You do astonishing things and you throw everybody else off balance. You could see this with the reactions in Europe. You could see this with the reactions in Ukraine. I saw this yesterday in the media here in London. I've been checking the European media as well. They are in complete shock. And as I said, it is exactly the same pattern which we see with

which we see the administration used domestically. You hit in every direction at once, but there is purpose behind it. So let's start. I think the first place to start actually is with the Trump-Putin telephone call, because that is the single big event. The Hegsath speech is in some ways, I mean, as important. Right. Now, this was, I am convinced, the first actual telephone call between Putin and Trump.

And we've had hints and reports, some from Trump himself, that there have been previous discussions and earlier conversation. The Russians, that we said, seem to be really surprised that Trump was saying those things. And I think we can now say with some confidence that this was the first actual call. All of the other hints that Trump was making were, I think, preparations for the call that finally came. And to some extent, they were, I think there wasn't a degree of misdirection. But there were contacts between the Russians and the Americans, except those contacts were not

the contacts that we were all looking at. So we have Kellogg, General Kellogg. He is the official Ukraine peace envoy. He is going around Europe. He's coming up with his plans. We discussed his plans in many programs. We've said that they were unworkable, that the Russians would never accept them, that they would never go for a freeze. He appears to have been the person who was coming up with all of these threats to the Russians,

all-out economic war if they didn't agree to a freeze. bribes, you know, that we'll lift the sanctions here and those sanctions there if you come around. He spends his time traveling around Europe. I should make it clear, I believe, I should say that I think he's acting in, he was acting in total good faith. I think he really thought he was acting as the point man for the administration on all of these questions. So he meets the European leaders. He has a whole procession of meetings. He gives them all reassurances. has discussions with them. He's backed by that earlier message that appeared on truth social about two weeks ago from Trump, about, you know, the Russians don't come around. He will impose

these draconian sanctions and taxes and tariffs on them. And then there is the real peace Seinfoy, who is actually Steve Weikov. And he turns up in Moscow, unannounced. I mean, The Russians obviously know he's coming, but there's no public announcement about the fact that he's actually the real peace envoy, but he clearly is the peace envoy. He arranges for Mark Fogel to be released. And that is an important thing because Trump needs to show that dialogue with the Russians actually produces results. And White Gough, who is doing the real job of peace envoy, He proceeds to arrange a call between Putin and Trump. And this is a real call, and it is massive, and it lasts for 90 minutes.

Now, the single most important things about the call are firstly that the call was not just about Ukraine. It was about the whole range of relations between the United States and Russia. If you look at the Kremlin readout and you compare it with Trump's comments on truth social, it is actually unusual because we find that the Kremlin readout and Trump's comments actually correspond with each other. Usually when governments publish readouts and conversations, especially if it's the U.S. government, you compare the American readout with, say, the Russian one. and you would come away with the idea that two completely different conversations have taken place. This time, they chine. So they discussed lots of things. They discussed AI. They discussed Iran's nuclear program. Now, remember, we said in a recent program that the Americans might actually want to talk to the Russians about this. We're here it is. They have done. It's there in the

Kremlin read out, Trump alludes to it. They discussed the situation, the general situation in the Middle East. They discussed potential future cooperation about many, many matters. Then they do talk about Ukraine. And this is really, becomes extremely important, because in the very first reports, media reports that appeared in London, the reports claimed that the Americans and Trump and Putin were talking about moving towards a ceasefire. I didn't believe that for one microsecond. And in fact, when you read what Trump is saying on truth social and what the Kremlin is saying, it's clear that they're not talking just about a ceasefire. They're talking about a long-term sustainable peace, which is, of course, what the Russians have been talking

about. The Americans and the Russians, Trump and Putin, agreed that the war must end. Putin says that it must address the root causes, which is a signal that he is not withdrawing through his positions that he set out, outlined in his speech to the foreign ministry back in June. last year, and that's exactly what one would expect. Trump's comments show that the Americans are not faced by that, because why would they object practically to what Putin set out in June 2024? It does not affect American core interests. So they're going to set up negotiating teams.

Trump outlines who will be on those negotiating, on the American negotiating team. It would be Rubio, who is after all the Secretary of State, it would be Mike Walsz, it will be John Radcliffe, the CIA director. It would be Steve Whiteoff. Kellogg's name is not there. And the Russians are now saying that they're working on setting up their negotiating team as well. My own game, is that it will be headed by the Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Yankov. So we now have the Americans and the Russians talking to each other. They're talking about lots of things. Dialogue has been resumed between these two superpowers.

And they're talking about Ukraine. They are creating negotiating teams. They're going to negotiate about Ukraine. The Europeans and the Ukrainians are not participating. The EU is out. The UK, no mention of the UK either. And Trump's mention of, at least in his truth social post of Ukraine, was for him to say that we have also agreed to have our respective teams start negotiations.

immediately, and we will begin by calling President Zelensky of Ukraine to inform him of the conversation. Yeah, inform him. The adults have spoken. The two parties that can resolve this conflict have spoken on many issues. They also talked about energy, which I think is very important. And Trump says energy, and he says the dollar, the power of the dollar and energy. That's what he says. They're artificial intelligence.

and the Middle East, the Middle East, Iran, just as we reported on about a week ago. And when it comes to the EU, they do not have, at least it looks like they do not have a seat at the table. They're very upset about this. Kayakales even put out a post saying that the EU, along with the UK, France, Poland, Germany, Italy and Spain, they call themselves the Y-MAR Plus. Interesting choice of a name. They call themselves the Y-Bar Plus. And my God, and they put out a statement saying that they demand, they demand a seat at the table. They must be at the table in order to sabotage a deal. That's why they want to be at the table. But interesting choice of words for Zeletskya. Yeah. We're going to inform him. And Trump did call him. And he said, you know,

it was interesting. When he was at the meeting, event with Tulsi Gabbard, Trump said, I had a great call with Putin. And we had a very good call. Yes. He's out. He's sad. He's gone. He also said that Trump also mentioned that there's going to be elections. There have to be elections in Ukraine. There have to be elections in Ukraine. He also said that Rubio and Vance are going to beat Zelensky in Munich. Again, notice that Kellogg is not mentioned. Yeah, let me read you that actually. Before you talk about, that it's important that you brought that up. We discussed what Trump said on the truth social about the call with Zelenskyy said. We discussed a variety of topics having to do with the war, but mostly the meeting that is being set up on Friday in Munich, where Vice President Vance and Secretary of State Rubio will lead the delegation. In other words, I'm speaking with Putin and my team will inform. Yeah, well, in fact, exactly.

I mean, it looks to me as if what's going to happen. I mean, we always said that, you know, it would be an uncomfortable meeting between Zelensky and Vance, because Vance is known to be a skeptic about the war and has always been so. Anyway, Vance and Arrubia are going to meet Zelensky. As I say, no word about Kellogg being involved in those discussions. They're going to meet with Zelensky, and it looks to me as if they're going to be working on him. I don't think this is going to be a dialogue, actually. I think they're basically going to tell Zelensky, look, this is what we're going to do.

this is what the president has decided. This is going to be from now on the policy of the United States, and you're just going to have to lump it. I think that's what's going to happen. I mean, it's going to be, I mean, it has, shall we say, a rather tough quality about it when it's discussed in this kind of way. So you're absolutely right. Dolenc is being sidelined, and the Europeans are being sidelined, and they are in complete shock. Now, what has clearly happened? And we're talking about the British, and I'm glad you mentioned the British,

which is clearly the British had been talking to Kellogg. And Kellogg was telling them all the things they wanted to hear. And they now are in shock because they realized that Kellogg was not the real point man that they thought he was. And I think that, I mean, by the way, the White House issued a statement yesterday. I think the crest spokesman actually said, you know, he's still actually a, you know, very respected and important part of the team. But he's not on the negotiating team. Well, maybe he will turn up eventually, but clearly he is not the key person.

And Trump mentions Wyckoff and he doesn't mention Kellogg. So, I mean, that really, I think, is, I mean, it's almost cruel, actually. It's very funny, but it's also almost cruel. He might be around. He might be around. Mike stick around. I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if he's at the negotiating team or in Munich. But yes. Yeah, you think you're right. He's been downgraded. He's been downgraded. He's clearly not going to be the lead negotiator. The lead negotiator, in my opinion, or I mean, there will be

Rubio there. But Rubio's secretary of state and he's got an awful lot to do. My guess is the lead negotiator is actually going to be white of. Radcliffe is clearly also going to play an important role. He's the CIA director. So that is an interesting choice of negotiators. Rickoff to me is, I mean, you saw Pulp Fiction, Alexander. He reminds me of Harvey Keitel's character, The Wolf, the guy that fixes everything. He's like the guy that fixes stuff. Exactly.

That's exactly what he is exactly. That's actually very, very, very savvy thing to say, actually. It's exactly what. That's exactly what he is. He comes in, everything's a mess. He's completely, he completely gets everything together. He moves at tremendous speed. He knows exactly what to do.

He knows how to talk, which he does brilliantly. And he handles the whole situation with efficiency and smoothness. And that's exactly what he's doing, what my golf is doing. Yeah, so in a video I did a couple of days ago on my channel, I had the impression, listening to one of your videos where you were talking about Kellogg, just floating around Europe. And then I was reading off of the Washington Post report, which had some information on his daughter. We won't get into the details of it.

I'm sure everyone that's watching this channel has seen that report. And that was just under the impression. It just hit me, you know, it seems like Kellogg was a distraction in a way, just kind of told by Trump, yeah, yeah, yeah. talk about your ceasefire, talk about your carrot and stick, go to Europe, speak with the Lithuanian, speak with the Latvian, speak with the British, speak with Olaf, Schultz, speak with Makran. And it seems like that's what he was sent to do, is to distract while the real deal-making was taken place in order to prevent a Boris Johnson type of sabotage.

Correct. That's exactly what it was. It shows, by the way, again, that Trump, Trump and his team are being very underestimated. They clearly understand the kind of people that they're dealing with, and they moved very fast. They have actually moved, I mean, very, very fast, and they've got things together very, very quickly. One of the things about Kellogg was he was so obviously taking his time. He was obviously much more comfortable talking to the Europeans and to the Ukrainians than he was talking to the Russians. And, you know, his plan was always being postponed and he was

doing the usual thing of getting everybody's opinions and, you know, getting a bit of the British input into his plan and the German input into his plan. And it all turned out that it was, there was no reality to it whatsoever. So the Europeans are in a mess. The Ukrainians are all over the place. As you're right, he said Zelensky's being informed. He's going to be informed again by Rubio and Vance and it's going to be a very, very tough show. And the other big thing that happened yesterday on Ukrainian matters was the Pete Higgs death gave a speech. And that was already a shock. I mean, I was again watching the media in Britain.

as information about what Heggseth had said began to filter through. And this is the real policy of the administration, at least their initial points. So no NATO for Ukraine, no, I mean, complete acceptance that Ukraine is never going to get its lost territory back. I mean, it's incredible that this has still been a topic of the discussion, but at least finally, Someone, and Pete Hegseth, needs to be given credit for this, has acknowledged that reality. But he said other things, which is that the United States is not going to send troops to Ukraine and the United States is not going to give guarantees to Ukraine. It is for the Europeans to do these things.

We were saying right at the beginning, before the inauguration, that the best thing that the Trump people could do would be to say, look, to the Europeans, to the Ukrainians, look, if you want to just carry on as you are, by all means, go ahead and do it. But the United States is not going to be a part to that. We've done all we can. We've given vast amounts of money. Trump is saying it's now $350 billion of the United States has given to Ukraine, even more than we knew. And as we know, vast sums cannot be accounted for. Zelensky has itself admitted to this. So the Americans are now saying to the Europeans, look, if you don't like it, it's up to you. You go ahead and take our place. If you want to go on army in Ukraine and funding Ukraine and continuing with Project Ukraine,

That's your business. But the United States is more serious things to talk about and deal with. We've got to focus on the Asia-Pacific region where we're facing the challenge from China. And we also need to talk to the Russians about lots and lots of other things. The dollar, energy, Iran, the Middle East, you name it. We've got to talk to the Russians about it. Yeah, and Scott Besant is on his way to Kiev or maybe even in Kiev right now. Yeah, absolutely.

He's probably there now. And why do you send, why do you send your financial guy to a meeting like this? I mean, if you're a business and your financial guy is going to meet with the CEO or the manager that you've appointed in order to do what? In order to figure out where did all of our money go? Exactly. And we want our money back. We want our money. That's the purpose of the meeting.

That's exactly. We want our money back. We invested in you or the previous administration invested in you. Now we want to know where all the money went and we want our money back. That's the purpose of the trip, no doubt about it. And, you know, if the Trump people follow through with that, which I think they will, but I think, at least I think they intend to follow through with that. This is going to be enormous because, well, as we've been saying on these programs for such a long time, as you've been saying,

this has been the biggest griff of all. I mean, hundreds of billions of dollars have ended up in all sorts of places. Many, much of that money in the United States as well. So, you know, they'll be following up on that. They'll be asking the money. They'll be following the money trails. They will lead to all sorts of interesting places. I noticed that just today, by the way, this is not about,

directly connected to the Ukraine thing, but it is in some respects. Musk has just been saying that another media outlet that has been taking money from the U.S. government was Reuters. Yeah. Yeah. And Zelensky himself said that most of the money was going to the United States. I mean, he said that in an interview with, I believe, with Reuters or either with Reuters or the Associated Press. He said, I've only received, what did he say, $100 billion or $70 billion? Yeah, exactly.

The other $125 billion is in the US. So even Zelensky has said that the money is in the United States. Yes. I mean, there's going to be, by the way, there is going to be a lot of alarm and panic on the part of many people. Just to say, at this moment in time, all sorts of files have been deleted with extreme prejudice. Let's really like that.

I mean, a lot of that is going on at the moment. Very difficult, by the way, to hide money. rails, if you get really efficient researchers to follow them. That I can say from direct knowledge. Yeah, well, I mean, this thing runs very, very deep, very long from 2014, maybe even before 2014, 2003. Absolutely. And it runs very deep. As we saw with the fact that, you know, you do have a, I would say it is a conflict of interest with Kellogg and his family. Absolutely. who were involved in Project Ukraine.

Yeah. I'm not saying that Kellogg was involved. But still, you see how wide and how deep this Project Ukraine grift was. So what happens now? I think that's the big question, Mark. Trump mentioned an invitation to Russia, perhaps Victory Day. Wouldn't that be interesting? That would be very interesting.

He said that Putin was invited to the United States. That would be an interesting trip. But he said the first meeting would take place most likely, he said, in Saudi Arabia. And what happens? What happens with the negotiations on Ukraine? I mean, they have a lot to discuss. Yes. They have a lot to talk about it.

And Russia is interested in a wider discussion. Absolutely. And they're interested in a security architecture. but Trump brought up money. He wants to get his investment back. I think that Russia could probably give some input into that. Maybe they have some thoughts or ideas as to how to go about that. I don't know.

You've got the war that's still going on. You have the territories, the regions. You have the fact that Russia told Kellogg and his plan that they're not interested in ceasefire. They're not looking at anything like that. They're not afraid of sanctions. There's any more sanctions. All the sanctions have been put on Russia. There's no leverage that the United States has over Russia. How do you see this thing unfolding? You have the issue of the Banderites in the West. You have the denotification. You have the demilitarization. But can I just before getting onto that, just to point out that on these programs,

we actually suggested that the first Trump-putin meeting could happen in Saudi Arabia or one of the Gulf states. Yeah. I think we actually said, UAE, Saudi Arabia. UAE, Saudi Arabia. Or if it was going to take place in Europe, we said either Budapest, the Belgrade or Slovakia. That was what we said for Europe. We said that there would be problems with that because it would mean passing over the EU territory and the ICC. And it looks, and that is exactly what anyway. We suggested that it would be the Middle East. And that is what's happening. And again, that is going to be very, very shocking to the Europeans. It's something that one should not underestimate because for the first time since the cold, well, since relations between the Soviet Union and the United States have been established,

since Russia, Russian and American leaders had the meeting, they're going to meet outside Europe. all meetings up to now have taken place in Europe. The only except, well, I mean, partial exception was the Gerald Ford and Brezhnev back in, I think, was 73, met in Vladivostov. But in all other respects, they have always met in Europe. And again, a key country, Europeans are finding that the affairs of Europe are being decided outside Europe and that's going to be a major shock for them. So anyway, let's talk about everything else.

There are a huge number of topics that the Americans and the Russians can talk about. The Americans are asking for their money. The Russians could help with that, actually. I mean, they can help with that. I think that if it's a question of the Americans coming back with money, the Russians are not short of money, nor are they. short of resources. I mean, they could, for example, revive the deal that was going to be done with Exxon, for Exxon to have all exploration rights in the Arctic and things of that kind. So if that's

what concerns the U.S., if they want a transactional relationship, then that could happen. The fact that Trump is talking about going to Russia and of inviting Putin to the United States and of putting the relationships between their great countries on a good path. It's very difficult to see how the sanctions policy that we have at the moment can be sustained if that path is indeed followed. Of course, we haven't got there. Perhaps the US could have a role in Nord Stream? Perhaps you could have a role in the transit of gas from Ukraine? Just the thoughts. I don't know what you think. Absolutely. There are lots of possibilities. There are lots of things. that could happen. And especially when business people get together, they can come up with

all kinds of ideas. So, you know, let's not underestimate this, but I mean, let's not explore this too much because, you know, it's not, I think, for us to second guess how that's going to play out. But other things, the dollar, for example, the role of the dollar, well, Putin has repeatedly said that the BRICs countries are not in the business of setting up an alternative at the moment, an alternative currency to the dollar. Putin has repeatedly said that Russia didn't stop using the dollar from choice. It was driven out of the dollar by the United States. So again, I think that nothing is going to prevent the Russians now, stop the Russians now, from moving forward with the BRIC's financial and trade system, because they cannot trust the Americans

that far. But if sanctions start getting lifted, if the Americans, for example, ease off on the energy sanctions, then the Russians can start accepting payment for some of their oil, at least, in dollars again. Just saying that might help the Americans, that might help the Russians. I can see how that could work. For Trump, Trump, as we've said in our programs again, if he really wants to deal with domestic inflation in the United States, he needs lower energy costs. How do you get energy costs reduced quickly? You remove the restrictions on the export of Russian oil and gas. And I think that quite plausibly is where we're heading to. Instead of trying to make

Russian energy exports more difficult, as Putin hinted in his discussions with, you know, Zarabin, you know, in response to Trump's original true social message, the Russians, like the Americans, have a joint interest. They don't want the price of energy too high because that will affect their domestic industrial development. But obviously, like the Americans, they're a major energy producer. So they don't want the price of energy too low because that will impact on the profitability of their energy industries. So the Americans and the Russians can have a useful and effective discussion on this.

And I think they will take that forward. I think they have a joint interest in doing so. And if they go to Saudi Arabia and they meet that, then they could also bring NBS into these discussions as well. So, you know, this is, you could see how everything dovetails together. So they can, they'll talk a lot about that. Now, there is, however, the issue of Ukraine. Now, what Pete Hegseth has just told us is the project Ukraine is dead. The American prod, the neocon project of using Ukraine as a place where you defeat Russia, you inflict a defeat on Russia, you collapse its economy through sanctions,

you engineer regime change in Moscow, you do all of those things. That is over. That's finished. A line has now conclusively been drawn under that. But unfortunately, it is now lit it with problems. The Russians will insist on control of the four regions. They will be worried, the Russians will be concerned about NATO, Ukraine's future orientation. The Americans are saying, look, we don't want Ukraine in NATO, but this is the Trump administration. In four years time, we might have the Democrat come back again. They might change the policy there, just as they did before. So the Russians will want cast iron guarantees about this, as they have said.

There is the issue of the bander rights in Ukraine. I cannot see how this can end without the Russians insisting on some kind of change in the structure of the government in Kiev. I mean, this from a Russian point of view has to be a priority now. Tribunals? Tribunals. I mean, the Russians have been talking an awful lot now about what. They've just discussed more war crimes in Coast Region, in the Ruska and in Porrechnoye and in Nikolaev-Darino, a grisly war crimes if, you know, if you accept the Russian claims.

So, you know, they need to have any, all of that done. So they will need a new government, a new structure of power in. Kiev, and that will probably be the minimum of what the Russians want. Now, this will be very, very difficult for the Europeans. But if we go back to the United States and look at this purely from American interests, the perspective of US interests, why is it a problem for the United States if the Russians have a a friendly government in Kiev and perhaps some kind of a presence in Odessa and places like that. From an American point of view, given that Project Ukraine had been closed down, I don't think it is a

problem. The Europeans will object, the British will go berserk over it. There are already Lithuanian, ex-Lithuanian foreign ministers who are talking about Munich too, referencing the 1938 Munich Agreement, which is, by the way, crazy. I mean, that's bonkers. But from a tough-minded, hard-headed American perspective, if you really want a stable situation in Europe, whereby you can focus, you can move your people out of Europe, focus instead on the Asia-Pacific. region. Doing a deal with the Russians about security in Europe makes complete sense. The Russian demands are not extreme. They do not impact on American core interests. The Russians are not calling for the dismantling of NATO or anything of that kind. So you can probably find,

if you work on it long and hard, you can probably find ways to achieve this. which will preserve the interests of the United States, protect Russian interests, and take this issue of Ukraine once and for all off the table. Well, you start with new elections. You get rid of the current administration. Absolutely. Yeah, so you start there. And maybe the outlook for Ukraine will be some sort of a federation.

Yeah. Or something along those lines with the regions having more autonomy. me, so maybe you can have a structure in that way. I don't know. I mean, there's all kinds of formulas that you can come up with. Absolutely. I mean, it's worth pointing out, by the way, that right back in 2014, after the Maidan events, there was a proposal floating around for federalization in Ukraine.

And it originated, by the way, with Angela Merkel. I remember this very, very well. So she said to the Russians at that time, look, you know, we understand you take a crime here. In terms of Donbass, we are prepared to go with this idea of federalization. And then John Kerry, who was then the Secretary of State, met with Lavrov in London. I remember this very, very well. And the two issued a joint statement, a Russian-American statement, which, talked about Ukraine making progress towards federalization. So this is not a new idea. It's an

idea that the Germans and the Americans, and when I say the Americans, I mean the Obama-Biden administration seemed for a time as if they were prepared to run with. Of course, they didn't mean that seriously, as we now know, that was again all frankly, to you please. and deceiving the Russians and trying to pull the wool over their eyes, in reality, they were already preparing to launch an offensive to take Dombas back under control. But anyway, I mean, you know, those statements, the Lavrov-Kerry statement from, I think it was March 2014, the text is still there. If you look hard enough, you will find it.

Yeah, I mean, the solution for Ukraine, the problem for Ukraine, and in my opinion, always lied. It didn't lie in the east or even in the center. It was always in the West. And it was always this band-or-right ideology that was the problem. And then when the money started to flow in from the NED, from the USAID, from the CIA, what's it started to flow into the West, then that Western part of Ukraine consolidated their power in the center of Ukraine in Kiev. And that's where all of the big problems started. Absolutely. So you have to address that.

You have to address that. So there are ways forward. This could be done. We could have a federated Ukraine. That would mean the places like Adessa, for example. You would have a Russian presence there quite plausibly because it's difficult to imagine Adessa left to itself, not developing extremely close ties to Russia. You could see all of this. It would be extremely difficult to negotiate, but it is not impossible

if you approach it in that kind of way. And of course, Zelensky would oppose it, that then he's probably on his way out. The band of rights will be furious about this. The Europeans will be horrified by it because, of course, federalization basically killed any prospect of Ukraine entering the EU. I mean, I think it's inconceivable that that will happen now. I would say that if Russia were to allow some sort of clause in some sort of an agreement, stipulation, an agreement where Ukraine enters the EU, given what the EU is now to NATO, it would just mean one foot in the door to NATO. So I would say that Russia would have to be bonkers to allow such a thing. And they're not bonkers. So I think that's what I would say EU has to also be off the tape.

That would just be my view of it here. I think we're definitely moving in that direction. And why would the Trump people care whether Ukraine enters the EU? Again, I don't see that this concerns them at all. So you can actually work things through. You have to overcome Ukrainian opposition. and the banderites are a force in Ukraine, and they haven't gone away, and they're heavily armed, and they do pose a danger. And of course, you have the problem of the Europeans, the British,

the Germans, whether the Germans continue with it remains to be seen. We'll see what happens in the elections. The elections in Germany could be heavily impacted, by the way, by the events that we just see. So, you know, what the Germans are going to do, what the French are going to do what's going to happen in Europe. Putin said that Trump isn't going to have any difficulties, bringing the Europeans into line. Trump liked that and re-posted that comment on truth social. That's probably right. But anyway, one way or the other, there will probably still be some resistance and some opposition in Europe, which is why you need to keep them out to the negotiations. Well, you cut off the funding, so that's one way that's one way that's,

you handle the bandar rights, but I think that Russia is going to insist on some form of tribunals. Yeah. You have to insist on demilitarization as well. So you have to insist on that. But, you know, you left out one country that I think poses the greatest danger to sabotaging a future peace. And I think that's the UK. Absolutely. I think it's the, you have to, I mean, Europe, at the end of the day, the EU and much of the EU member states are complete vassals to the United States. I mean, 100%. But, you know, you have the UK, which is a vassal to the US, but they also work behind the scenes and in the shadows, and they're very good. The MI6 and all these organizations are very good at sabotaging peace deals. As they played a central role in sabotaging Minsk,

for example, the Minsk agreement. And yes, absolutely. I mean, and by the way, the British shocking complete shock about this. I mean, they thought they'd had understandings, with Kellogg, and they now understand that those were worthless, which is completely predictable and entirely understandable. But there we go. But no, I mean, there are problems. But this is where the Americans actually do have very strong cards. Because if the Europeans dig in, if they really do sabotage the negotiations or try to, if they find people in Ukraine who are prepared to work with them and sabotage the discussions too. Well, the Americans always have that option. They can say to the Europeans, okay, look, we're doing what we can. You're not helpful. You're not being helpful here.

If you want to take over Ukraine, if you want to arm it and fund it, it's your show. It's not us. We are trying to find a workable solution. If all you can do is obstruct, then it's your problem. have no longer rouse. And no Article 5. And no Article 5. Don't cry to us about Article 5 stuff. Yeah. And I have never, I understand that Hegss has already said that there will be no more money

from the United States for Ukraine. So there it is. Yeah. What do you make, to close the video out, what do you make of the timing of all of this with the Munich Security Conference? It's interesting that it was in 2022, Munich, when much of it. this started. Well, I, I, are entering Munich in a date. It looks like this may be the beginning of the end. Well, it is. Well, it is. It started in Munich and it's ending in Munich. And there is a

kind of poetic justice in that because it was at the Munich 2020 security conference that I first really began to think that a war was likely. Because I remember, I remember watching them all, Kamala Harris, Boris Johnson, Olaf Schultz, Emmanuel Macron, Zelensky, Ursula. They were all absolutely drunk with what they were going to do. And it was clear that they wanted a wolf. It was clear that they wanted this massive sanctions imposed on Russia. It was clear that they thought that Russia would not be able to withstand the sanctions blow. I've never felt more depressed by what happened than when I, you know, by what was happening

than I did then. I remember coming away and saying to me, you could see a program I did, a video I did directly afterwards. So I was profoundly shocked about it. And here it is. And many of the same people are going to be there again. Macron will be there. Ursula will be there.

Sholes will presumably still be there. And Beirbock will be there. She was also, I remember, at the Munich Security Conference and did a crazy speech. Zelensky, of course, is still there. And they're now going to be told, you've lost. Because they have, you have lost. America has had enough. This was a complete failure.

What you did was crazy. completely wrong. America's had enough. It's going to make peace. If you don't like it, you're just going to have to lump it. So there is poetic justice after all. Do you worry about one final question? Do you worry about a false flag or something? Like they always do when they're in a panic or desperate? Yes, of course. Try and get Trump to recommit or to go back on everything you said. Absolutely. And of course, there's all kinds of things going on in the Baltic ships being blown up. cables being damaged, you know, stories that it's Russian ships causing the cables to be damaged, and then that is immediately contradicted. All kinds of things like that are going on.

I get the sense that the Americans this time understand pretty well what is really going on. I think that this is not just, I talk about the Americans. I don't just mean the Trump people. I mean, the wider American public is now very wide to this kind of thing. I mean, they don't trust the media anymore, as we've seen, since they voted strongly for Donald Trump and for his team. So, yes, it's entirely possible. We're going to have some attempt to derail this. A false flag is a real possibility. I don't think it will work.

Yeah. I also think that they also lost a lot of trust from the Trump administration, all the trust from the Trump administration from Russiagate as well. I think about Russia gate a lot, especially with the UK and how the UK played a central role in Russia gate and trying to derail Trump. And even Stommer in the elections recently was very antagonistic towards Trump and he threw it all in with Harris. So even if they try to put together some sort of sabotage or some sort of false flag, they've done so much damage to themselves with this Trump administration over the past eight years that it's going to be difficult for Trump to trust in them. Absolutely.

And I mean, the other thing is, of course, the revelations with USAID about the information control about Reutersly, well, partly owned by the U.S. government, about the U.S. government funding the BBC. Writers is UK, right? Are the UK big? Reuters is a British newsagency, absolutely. So, I mean, all of this is going to make the Trump people even more suspicious of any stories, any short horror revelations coming out of Ukraine or Europe now, because they've seen it, they've seen it all happened so many times.

I don't think they trust it. All right. Let's end the video here and we'll do another video where we discuss the military stuff and everything that's happening in Ukraine as well on the front lines. So we'll end this one, this video here. The durand.com. We are on Rumbleoddisi, pitch, telegram, Rockfin, and X. Go to the Durand Shop, because of merch like what we are wearing in this video update.

The link is in the description box down below. Take care.