The Duran Podcast - Putin at Valdai, civilizational world order is here to stay

Episode Date: October 6, 2023

Putin at Valdai, civilizational world order is here to stay

All right, Alexander, let's just get into it. Putin, Valdai. Before you actually break down what Putin said at Valdai, which I thought it was pretty amazing the stuff that he said. Just give us a quick background on the importance of Valdai. Yeah. And then we can get into what Putin said. Just real quick. Just why is Valdai important? Well, Valdai is important because it enables people from the West. and around the world, not just the West, by the way,

from around the world to actually meet with Putin and speak to him personally. And of course, also people from Russia. Of course, Russians have other opportunities for interaction. But Valdei is a place which has been set up as a conference. It's a place where it's a think tank as well, but it holds this conference. And at that conference, you can meet.

You know, people are selected. They can meet with Putin, they can interact with him, they can ask him questions. These are not journalists. These are people, you know, for academics, ex-diplomats, people from the West, people from the global south from all over the world. And at the same time, other members of the Russian leadership are also there. It's the highest level point of contact between the outside world and Russia. and it's where the Russians set out and explained their policies,

where the Russians also take soundings, it's an extremely important place, and there's lots of interactions. So the Japanese were there, the Indians were there, the people from Japan, India, China, all asking questions, people from other parts of the world, there was a person from Iraq, for example, Latin America, they're always there. And by the way, just to say,

Two people who have appeared on shows on the Duran were also participants at this meeting. Richard Sackwa, he asked questions of Putin, and Sergei Karaghanov was also there. And he also asked questions of Putin. So you see, this is what it's all about. Okay, well, let's get into the substance of the event of what. Putin said. Obviously, when Putin speaks at these events, these are long marathon events, and he says a lot. There's a speech as well as a Q&A session, and Putin covered a lot of ground. So where do you want to begin? Because it wasn't only about the conflict in Ukraine. He covered

conflict in Ukraine, talked about Nord Stream, he talked about Syria, he talked about Serbia, he talked about the multipolar world. He covered a lot of different areas. Obviously, the big one is the conflict in Ukraine, but Putin, he comes to these events very well prepared. Always. He said some extremely interesting things, even progosia. He even talked about progoja, which I thought was an interesting one. Anyway, where do you want to begin? Should we start with the big one, Ukraine? Or should we move, should we start with the smaller ones and then get to I'm going to suggest that we start with the conceptual ones because we see increasingly the crystallization of not just Putin's, but I should stress Russian thinking about the future

of international relations. And they're clearly thinking not just of a multipolar world, but of a concert of powers. And he spoke at enormous length. about this concept of civilizational states, that the leading states in the world are going to be civilizational ones. And of course, this is a direct challenge to globalist thinking that we have from the West, that there's only one acceptable human civilization, which is based on neoliberal Western, essentially Western, but ultimately neoliberal ideas.

He said, no, this is not how the world is going to work. We're going to have civilizational centres, China, India, Russia, Latin America, Africa, and each of them have equal value. And that the only way that the world can develop from this point on is if we first recognize that fact, and if we also recognize that development, the progress, Human progress can only be built on recognising that civilisational diversity. And I thought that was, you know, obviously he's been leading up to this for a long time.

Russian thinking has been leading up to this for a very long time. But this is now what he said. And of course, he accepts that the West is also a civilization. He doesn't dispute this. but he says that the West is not exceptional. It is no right to subjugate or dominate others. And he also spoke about the West over the last few centuries as having achieved its position of political and global prominence

by taking an extremely predatory approach to the other civil. by basically plundering them through mechanisms of colonialism and then of neocolonialism, enriching itself at their expense and, in effect, destabilizing the entire international system and the totality of human civilization in that kind of a way. And he said this period is now ending. The West is resistant to this idea. but Western methods of using bullying and pressure and force and he spoke about this all about, always about, you know,

that it's based on pressure and force. That's no longer working anymore and it must come to an end. And unless it does, the West especially will be suffering very severely, but of course the rest of the world will suffer too. But that was his idea. And interestingly enough, when discussing Russia, he spoke about the Christian foundations of Russian civilization. But at the same time, while acknowledging that this is a civilizational state,

it includes people who are not Christians, but who have the right to exercise fully their culture and religion within this huge civilizational area, which is Russia. So Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, those people have a full and active place in it. But he contrasted that again with the way in which the West is destroying

the Christian foundations of its own civilization and is becoming increasingly intolerant in the process. So it's a very, very interesting speech. And that was his big overall. sweeping conception. Now, he spoke lots about Ukraine, obviously. He spoke lots about

the present crises in international relations. He spoke about Serbia, as he rightly said, and about what happened there. He was asked lots of questions from all kinds of people. The topic of progogian came up over the course of those

questions. He was asked about the state of the economy, the Russian economy, but he also had a lot to say about Western economies as well. All very interesting. All, by the way, especially the economic things. I have to say sometimes I felt that he might even have been watching our programs. As you said, many of the same things that we've been saying.

Like, for example, you know, about a Germany deindustrialising and having cut itself off from energy, exactly, and having gone into a tailspin in consequence of this, And anyway, I think he said things like that. But anyway, it was all very, very interesting. But, you know, it was a civilizational thing that it's a development of what he's been talking about. So we've gone from multipolarity to a civilizational concept of human society and an understanding that these various civilizations constructed around civilizational state,

must accept each other, work with each other, work with each other on the basis of equality. It's nobody's job to give out score cards and say that, you know, this country's civilization is inferior to the other and you must change in this way. And, you know, if you don't, well, you know, you're backward in some fashion. He said, you know, you've got to put all that to one side and we've got to create a concert of nations and work together. and he made also very clear that this had to be still based on the framework of the United Nations because he accepted that in many ways it's out of date and needs updating but he said it's still a law-based structure and we can't have a rules-based structure based around the West because that's purely oppressive and arbitrary so he spoke about the United Nations still providing the framework

through which this concert of civilizational powers will work. Dr. Steve Turley always does a great job when he talks about the civilizational state. He's been covering it for many years, and I imagine that he found Putin's speech interesting. Anyway, you know, the contrast of Valdaai and what's happening right now in Spain with the EU meeting. And in the United States, here you have Putin talking about the future of the world and how things are going to move and how things are going to be set out on the one side. And then on the other side, you have the collective West trying to scrape together whatever money and weapons they can to keep the Olensky regime afloat. But Putin did not look worried. Didn't look stressed. He seemed very confident, very self-assured.

You know, I don't want to say victorious, but he seemed like things are moving in the direction where perhaps Putin, G, Brick, Smody, it's moving in the direction that they wanted to move. They have the momentum. On the other side of the equation, we have a collective west that is in panic. Actually, Politico, they ran a post with the word, with the title, Ukraine is freaking out over everything that is going on with the house and the money situation and all that stuff. So, I mean, contrast to that and then talk a little bit about Ukraine. You said he talked a lot about Ukraine. He did talk a lot about Ukraine.

I think he once again hinted at where the conflict is going, specifically with Odessa and the Blacks. which is something that we have been covering a lot. You've been covering it on your channel. A lot of the Russian administration, the Russian government, I mean, they're dropping massive hints as to where this conflict is going. So contrast the West in Russia and then talk a bit about this the rhetoric from the Russian administration about the conflict of Ukraine. Well, indeed, let's talk about the West because you're absolutely correct. I mean, here we have Putin carrying out this sweeping, you know, tour d'Orizant about, you know, the future of humanity,

the steeply philosophical in some ways and, you know, carefully thought through discussion. I mean, whatever, whether you agree with it, but I mean, whatever, whether you agree with it or not, it is a vision. And it's a vision, by the way, the people around the world, many people around the world, many people around world will embrace if you're in India or China or Africa or Latin America or the Arab world or the Muslim world well he's telling you you're as good as the West you have as much right to be taken seriously as the West and yeah that's that's pretty heady stuff that's not what people have heard it's huge he he also he also by the way and this is one of very interesting

passages I just wanted to quickly add this as well because He was contrasting, you know, Russian policy today with that of the Soviet Union. And he was saying, you know, the Soviet Union, it conceived of its foreign policy as an extension of class relations, of class struggle. So somebody asked him, you know, you're an anti-imperialist, the Soviets were anti-imperialists. Aren't you the same? And he very politely basically said, no, we're not the same. Soviets thought about it in terms of class. it's clear that was a mistaken understanding of the way the world works.

And he gave an example. He said, look, China, China's becoming more and more powerful. The West's antagonism towards China is rooted in geopolitics. It's not a question of class relations. We're going to be opposed imperialism. It's not because imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism that, you know, oppresses the workers and the peasants around the world. It is because imperialism is essentially the West, plundering other civilizations in order to benefit itself.

So, as I said, this is enormously interesting stuff for people around the world. In Africa, in Asia, wherever, they've been telling you, as good as the West is, the West has been predatory upon you. and we are there to help you. All of us are there to help. We should all work together to get away from this system. And you must sort out your life. We will sort out ours.

Each of us has our own inherent right to do that, founded upon our own cultures. So this is the kind of message that Putin is giving. And then you go over you, you transfer to the West. and what you get is shrillness, cliches, the usual, endless cliches that you get from the West, mumbled words from a president who, well, doesn't know whether he's coming or going or isn't perhaps entirely safe walking down a stair.

So, I mean, and of course, if you're talking about this meeting in Spain, crisis management all the time. It's, find a few shells here. cough up a few billion there, come up, you know, constantly trying to sort of paper over problems, kick the can down the road a little further, tweak, you know, things, just trying to keep this.

Seas Iranian boats with weapons. I know, with, exactly. I mean, he did a really great video on that, by the way, if I could say so, you know, all these small bullets and things at those seas and the Iranians, you know, to sort of send them to Ukraine. do all of these kind of things.

It looks so, I mean, childish and ridiculous and tiny. And then you have this person at Valdei, comes up with these sweeping ideas, as a very interesting, very exciting ideas for many people. And the contrast is extraordinary. It's the one person, he's able to, to think forward. He's thinking deeply and carefully about the world and how it's going.

And this lot, as I said, they're back in Spain. They're running around, chasing with each other, having arguments, trying to sort out something just to get past the next few weeks and months. It's an incredible study in contrasts. Okay, so that's a good lead in to the conflict in Ukraine. Yeah. What do you think was, what were the important points that Putin made during his speech and the session about Ukraine? Right. Well, let's first of all start with the fact that we've had a whole series of successive statements from all kinds of Russian officials. So we've had statements from Vyajoslav Lodi, the Speaker of the Parliament. We've had two big interviews by Lavrov, the foreign minister. We've had Medvedev. all talking and he by the way he also wrote a piece yesterday interesting piece on these telegram channel

about the fact that negotiations are not really in order and we've also of course had shogu the defence minister so top russian officials all basically saying you know the proposals that the west is making are really of absolutely no interest to us and we are going to sort this out by ourselves militarily. Now, Putin, who is the ultimate decision maker, if you actually take a step back and listen or read what he said, he said the same thing. But he said it as he always does in a somewhat different way. He said, our concern is not territory. We've got huge amounts of territory. We are the biggest country in the world. We don't need more territory. We're interested in people. People is what we are concerned about. Our Russian people, they're being oppressed, they're being

terrorized, they are being treated in this terrible way. And we went, this conflict began because those people, the people in Dombas, the people elsewhere in Ukraine, were being cruelly oppressed by the Ukrainian government and it was the Ukrainian government that actually started the war, not in 2022, but in 2014. Now, if you think about that, if you take a step back and think what that means, what he is ultimately saying is, If it is people that are, is our concern, then why stop at Dombas?

Why stop until you've actually secured all Russian people in Ukraine? And he specifically referred to Odessa as a Russian city. It's the first time he's done that. So essentially He is saying the same thing He's saying this regime in Kiev It can't It's impossible

We can't work with it I mean it's clear by now That we can't work with it We can't really work with the West He's spoken at length about how the West Has behaved He also made it clear again That you know

The West has slammed the door on us We didn't We didn't leave Europe they don't want us given that they don't want us we're not going to waste time anymore pursuing the policy that we did before of trying to integrate ourselves into Europe

so we don't care about what the Europeans think we can see that we're not interested in negotiations with them we're going to care mind our own people look after our own people he never spoke about negotiations He clearly doesn't believe in negotiations. That's obvious.

He doesn't believe in negotiations with the Kiev government. He doesn't recognize the legitimacy of that government. So the operation is going to continue, and there is no reason now, or so it seems to me, to think it will stop at the four regions. There's every reason to think it will go beyond that. And the option, the alternatives that Ukraine faces are the ones. that Volodyn and Medvedev have set out. Capitulation, in other words, unconditional surrender,

or alternatively regime change in Kiev, and the Russians will decide what the terms are. And those terms will include a solution in which Russia's interests are secured, and he again made it absolutely clear that no way is Ukraine joining NATO. And I read that to me that no point, part of Ukraine is going to join NATO either. And at the same time, so security, paramount,

protection of our people, paramount as well. There's no reason to think it will stop at Donbass or Zaporosia or at the four regions. We're going to move beyond that. That seemed to me completely clear now. Is this the first time that Putin has mentioned Hungary and Serbia. Yes. In this kind of way, I think. Yes. He said very favorable things about both countries. Yeah. Yeah. Another indication that perhaps he's looking at. I mean, he did say that if you want to, I mean, you've been saying this as well. If you want to really, I don't think he used the word damage. I forgot the word that he used. But in order to, to, to, to, to, you know, To control the economy of the region, the economics of the region, Putin's like, I mean, he's pretty much said you have to control the entire coast. Yes. I mean, it's obvious.

It's obvious. Absolutely. And that means reaching the borders of Hungary and connecting it to Serbia. I mean, that's correct. That's exactly. Just all of that. Yes. Yes.

Can I just make a further point, of course, because you see, he talked about Russia as a civilization. state, a place that has developed over hundreds of years, and the fact that, you know, many nationalities all exist within it very happily and comfortably with each other, but, you know, all sharing attributes of the same civilizational experience. Now, if you follow that logic, why say that Ukraine is different? Ukraine has been part of Russia for hundreds of years. It's culture and religion are very similar, essentially the same as Russia's. The languages are very similar.

They're both East Slav Orthodox nations, predominantly. So, you know, I'm not saying that's the plan. All I am saying is it's not that outcome would no longer be inconsistent with the logic of the comments that Putin was making. I'm not saying that's his plan. I'm not saying that's what he's decided.

I'm not saying that's what the Russians have decided. But if it comes to that, then it is fully consistent with what Volodyn was saying. Ukraine ceases to exist as a state and is reabsorbed back into the Russian civilizational state in which it was formerly a part. Yeah, I mean, I'm just bringing it up

because I think it's the first time I've heard absolutely. Absolutely. At any time, not even speaking to the media. He's never talked like this before. No. In this way, Odessa, and lynching certain borders and stuff like that.

So, yeah, okay. So, I mean, yeah, you said that he's not interested. in negotiations, but how do you explain then Sergei Lavrov's statements where Sergei Lavrov has said that Russia remains open to negotiations, given that those negotiations are reflective of reality of the situation, the reality on the ground? And how do you explain if Putin is in his speech of Valdei and what he said during the Q&A, about Russia forging its own its own path forward

and forgetting about Europe. How do you explain his comments about Nord Stream? I thought that was interesting. Because essentially he said, you know, Nord Stream 2 is active. It hasn't been damaged. It can be made active, at least. He said, all we need is the OK from Germany

and we can just turn the valve on, but Germany is not going to get the OK because their masters in Washington will never let them turn it back on. So, I mean, you know, on the one hand, Putin is saying we're done with Europe. But then you have kind of different messages where he is saying, you know, we have this pipeline. You can feed you guys gas? Just tell us, just give us the go ahead.

And then you have Lavrov, his foreign minister also saying, you know, we're open to negotiations. But you guys are just not ready to negotiate with us based on realistic terms. Well, indeed. And I think this is the essential point to understand. And again, Putin, he didn't actually talk about negotiations, but Lavrov has done. Medvedev has done. Putin has also done so in the past.

But it's essential to understand this. The Russians say they are open to negotiations. If somebody comes along, wants to make a serious proposal based on the realities, they will consider it. But the Russians are not seeking. negotiations. They're not phoning up Brussels or London or Washington and saying, or Berlin, or saying, look, we've reached this point now, let's sit down and talk. That's not what the Russians are doing. They say, look, you have some proposal to make. We're prepared to listen and we're

prepared to take it seriously, provided it makes some kind of sense. But the initiative is with you. It's not with us. We've spent years trying to negotiate with you. It didn't get anywhere. We made proposal after proposal. All we got were a lot of promises, all of which you broke. Ultimately, this time, if you want to make a proposal, yes, we're prepared to listen, but it's got to be a serious proposal.

Now, the Russians know perfectly well. And this I think is now also absolutely clear that the West is in no position at the moment to make a coherent and realistic proposal. They still, I mean, we've had all this mumble talk about the freeze, which Lavrov has trashed the idea of an indefinite ceasefire. Medvedev has talked about it again. He just spoke about it also yesterday.

He said, you know, what they're talking about. is just bogging us down in negotiations over a freeze so that they can rearm Ukraine and start all over again. And that's not what the Russians are interested in at all. And they're not going to accept any assurances. So this is not a proposal the Russians are prepared to work with. They're not prepared to work with any proposal, which they say doesn't take into account the realities.

The realities are Ukraine is losing territory. and it is losing the war, and the Russians have concerns about their security and their security on their Western borders. And they know perfectly well that the West, a structure today, is not capable of making a serious proposal in connection with any of these things. So they don't want to say,

we're slamming the door on negotiations, because that wouldn't look good around the world. But at the same time, it's for the West or Ukraine to initiate negotiations. And the Russians know they can't. Now, I think that's a key thing to understand about what the Russians are saying at the moment. They're not making any proposals. They're not setting out any ideas. They're not making any initiatives.

They're not seeking negotiations. They realize that if they're not, they did any of those things, it would be taken as a sign of weakness and would trap them into positions which they don't want to be trapped into. So they sit back and let events take their course. That's what the Russians, that's what the Russians are doing. Now, about leaving things opened with Europe, about turning on Nord Stream and all that. And, you know, they say there's a pipe, the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which is still functioning. We can turn the tap on whenever you want.

The point that Putin is making, he's driving this, look, again, it wasn't we who slammed the door on the Europeans. It was they who slammed the door on us. They turned their back on us. if they want to come back and start a process of rebuilding the relationship, well, we are prepared to meet them halfway, but it will be on, again, completely different terms from what it was back in the 1990s and even the early 2000s, when Putin was already. president. It will no longer be a case of Russia coming to the Europeans, knocking on the door,

asking to be let into the club, accepted as a member of the club. In fact, Putin actually trashed that idea over the course of the same Q&A after the speech. He said, that's not going to happen. It will be this time a pragmatic relationship based purely on self-interest and the Russians will act exclusively in terms of their interests, they will no longer come to the Europeans in any way as supplicants as people who are begging to be letting. Those days gone, they're gone forever.

All right, so before we talk just a little bit about progosion, because I thought that was just an interesting part of the Valdei session. how is the West going to react to this? Because the media did not cover this much at all. I mean, they really didn't report on this at all, to be quite honest. You know, he's talking about multipolar worlds and civilizational world. And the West is like, you know, we don't want to cover any of this.

It's incredible. But how do you think the political class in the EU and the U.S. is going to react to this? Well, they're going to ignore it. because, as you correctly said, it goes far above their head. They're not conceptually capable of this sort of thing. I think there was an extremely interesting and rather, well, I thought, you know, strong but in some ways rather funny comment that he made about the Speaker of the Canadian Parliament in which he said, you know, if this person didn't really know who it was,

he was inviting to the Canadian Parliament, then he's an idiot. And that's clearly what Putin thinks most of the leaders of the West are. I mean, you know, I, I, those words, that word is there in his speech. So, I mean, he's, he's not impressed by these people. He's not addressing them in this speech. He's talking to Modi, who he spent, spoke a lot and very warmly about. He's talking to, he's talking to, he's talking to Xi Jinping. He's talking to Lula, all of those people.

They will follow and take interest in his speech. So was Cyril Ramaphosa, in South. Africa, all of those people, they will be interested in this. But the people in the West, the leaders of the West, they're not going to pay any attention. They're not going to understand it. Perhaps somewhere in, you know, somewhere in, you know, somewhere in the, in Langley, there's a lone analyst who's working through all of this and is reading it and understands it and is trying to get his bosses to, you know, listen and understand what Putin is saying. But I doubt that even there, frankly, there are many people who understand and will

listen and will absorb what Putin is saying. And of course, the media in the West won't understand it either. But you get them, sit them, get one of these leaders across you and explain it all to them, they will be horrified. They will see these ideas as an existential threat to themselves. I mean, think of Josip Burrell, the man who talks about the garden and the jungle. And he now has a leader in Russia who tells, who's saying that all these other civilizations, Africa, in Africa, in the Middle East, in India, in China, they're equal to your own. They have as much weight and value as yours does. I mean, he's not going to like that at all. He will be furious about this. It will make him so angry. He will probably, well, do something even more deranged than some of the things he's

already done. So they won't understand it and probably, and if they did understand it, they would be furious about it and even more angry than they already are. Yeah, I imagine Orban and Fidzah, they'll listen to what Putin had to say. Orban certainly will understand it. I mean, he's the kind of person who does think and care deeply about these things. You could see that from his own speeches and the kind of comments that he made. And he will have noticed also Putin's very very very, pointed comments about how the West is destroying the Christian foundations of its own

civilisation so and you know this is something that Orban takes extremely seriously perhaps even some people in Poland will understand it but and Fizu yes and in Serbia too and I can think of people in Bulgaria thinking about it that I know who will understand it. But as I said, in the West, in London, in Paris even, well, perhaps in Paris again, there's some people who will understand it. Emmanuel Todd might understand it. But Macron, impossible for him to understand it.

For him again, this isn't just, this is heresy. I mean, Macro is always about more Europe. Europe is, you know, the solution to every problem, to be told that actually, well, you know, Europe isn't that important. And by the way, it's declining. Putin said that as I'm saying, that's not what they want to hear. Progosion. Okay, progion.

Yeah, I guess he said, by the way, Putin said, you know, I didn't really, really didn't want to talk about this. Now, there were two aspects of this. First of all, he talked about pregogion's death. And what he said was we found lots of grenades, shrapnel from grenades on the bodies of these people. It's a shame that no drug tests were taken. He sort of implied that this was an accident caused by people not being, well, frankly,

in possession of their senses and playing around with dangerous things. And that was what caused the plane to blow up. Now, I'm not going to say that I don't believe that, because I don't know one way or the other. other. That's what he said. Clearly there's a continuing investigation. My own sense, and I'm going to say, what I personally think, and this is purely my own personal view, I think that Brigodgian's death, which I still personally think was a murder, it's increasingly looking to me, like it was an inside job carried out by somebody within his organisation. There was obviously,

tensions and conflicts after the mutiny. There was that meeting that Putin had with the leaders of the Wagner organisation shortly after the mutiny collapsed. Pregojin was there. He offered them a deal. Pregojin blocked it, even though most of the others were prepared to accept it. I think that was the moment when some of them went away and said to each other, look, it's not going to work.

Progogion has lost it. we've got to find some way back in whilst Pregojin is in charge it's not going to happen and given the kind of culture of people that we're talking about they found this way and I think Putin sort of

knows that and to be honest might have been a bit of a steer to Bastrikin the head of the investigative committee look start looking for solutions

other solutions because we don't want you to get too close to those who were really responsible. That, that, that, you know, now, that's my own take on this. No, that's, I think you're right. Others, others, yeah, anyway, that, that's my own view. And if we, we are right. I think that's a smart. Yeah, and, yeah, and we see, you know, he had this meeting with some of this, I can't remember he's name, Froshef or something like that, who has now been basically put in

military charge progogian's son is being wheeled out to look after the business side of things it's it's being put together in a kind of a way again and some of the troops are being brought back into the

battle lines but Putin basically said it's a mess we're clearing it up we'll sort it out and as I said I think that that was my own take on those particular words Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.

Yeah, Zira Hedge, and they were talking about this comment from Putin, this talk with about Progoshin and Wagner. And they said, is Putin trolling everybody by bringing this up? And I was just thinking, you know, I don't think it's Putin trolling. I think he's trying to signal something else. He's trying to get something else accomplished with this statement on Progoshan, which did seem off the cuff. It didn't seem like it was planned or anything like that, but I think it's Putin's way of saying, look, we kind of know what happened, but let's just move past this.

And we'll say it was an accident that happened within inside the plane and we'll reconstitute Wagner and get things back on track. They were all high and playing with grenades. That's now going to be the story. I mean, it's not getting to be the official. I suspect it won't, but I mean, you know, we'll be moving it a little in that direction. Yeah. All right. We'll leave it there. The duran. Dotlocals.com. We are on Rumbleada seat. Shoot. Rockfin, Telegram and X. And go to the Duran shop. We are running a special 20% off. Use the code. The Duran 20, 20% off on all merchandise.

Take care.