The Duran Podcast - Putin-Trump meeting confirmed

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Putin-Trump meeting confirmedThe Duran: Episode 2301

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the latest developments between Whitkoff and Putin and the meeting between Trump and Putin, which has now been confirmed by Uschikov, the presidential aid. And the United States, they claimed yesterday that the meeting, the request for a meeting with Putin and Trump, a bilateral meeting was made by the Russians. Ushikov today has claimed that it was the U.S. that requested the bilateral meeting between Trump and Putin. And yesterday, Trump and his administration, as well as the media, leaking to the media,

they also suggested that after the bilateral meeting, we will be getting a trilateral meeting, Zelensky, Trump, and Putin. Today, Ushikov said that that is not in the cards just yet. Actually, the Russians didn't even comment on this. They said the United States suggested it. They didn't comment. And Ushikov pretty much said, let's first do the bilateral meeting, and then we'll see. That was pretty much his message.

Anyway, your thoughts on a very busy couple of days of diplomacy. Indeed, absolutely. Well, I think this explains why Wickoff was sent to Moscow, because it's become obvious, I think, now, both in retrospect. And by the way, we mentioned this in several programs, both programs that we each did on our channels and in programs we did together on the Duran. It's obvious that one of the things that's been happening over the last,

couple of weeks is that Trump is getting more and more frustrated, not just that he's not getting an agreement with the Russians to end the war and freeze the conflict and to do all of the things that he wants to do, but that he's not getting Putin's attention. And this kind of escalation we've been seeing over the last couple of weeks, the threats of sanctions, the threats of tariffs, the threats of tariffs against trading partners of Russia, all of that was at least in part, I suspect, an attempt to get Putin's attention. And it seems to be very important for Trump that he not only gets attention, but that he gets the other side to come to him and to basically agree to what he wants. We saw that happen with Ursula von der Leyen when she came to German

to Scotland and met Trump there and gave him basically what he wanted. So it doesn't work like that with the Russians. So at some point, 10 days ago, he decided to bring Witt Gough back centre stage. We haven't heard much from Witt Gopf for weeks. And he sent him to Moscow. And there's no doubt at all. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the Russians are telling the truth that it was Witt Gough who came to Moscow to propose the summit meeting between Putin and Trump, there is no other reason why Whitkoff would have gone. And if it had not, if it had been the Russians who asked for the meeting with Trump, well, why bother to send Whitkoff to Moscow? I mean, it doesn't make any kind of sense. So the Russians are obviously the people

who are saying it right. But for his own personal reasons for his pride and all that, Trump has to go on with this fiction that it was the Russians. Peace through strength. He has to show, you know, I did all of this. I'm getting the Russians together. Now, having floated briefly this idea of having a trilateral meeting after the bilateral meeting with Zelensky, something that the Russians have repeatedly ruled out, so it's not the right moment out of the meeting between Putin and Zelensky. We need to make much more progress in the negotiations before a meeting like that is possible.

Trump is now trying to bring Zelensky into the meeting and the Russians are pushing back against it. Now, Trump needs at some level to do this because if you go back to February when Putin and Trump had their first telephone conversation, they agreed at that time that they would meet. There was actually go back and look at the readout, the Russian readout. They actually agreed that there would be a meeting between Putin and Trump, and it would happen relatively soon. They also agreed, by the way, and this tends to get forgotten, that each would visit the other's country. It's all there in that Russian readout. That was when the relationship between Putin and Trump seemed to be going well, and that was in February. Now, back in February, there was shock, anger, horror, dismay right across Europe that Trump had,

had broken this boycott of Putin that had been agreed during the Biden period. So there was this huge tantrum across Europe that the Americans and the Russians, Putin and Trump were talking to each other. Then it got even worse when the Americans and the Russians had a bilateral meeting in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia. And Trump, as he so often does, after saying, Well, why shouldn't we have bilateral meetings with the Russians? Why shouldn't the United States and Russia meet and speak with each other? Well, then he sort of packed off. And then he said, yes, of course, you know, the Ukrainians need to be involved in any discussions, which involve their country.

And that's how, that was one of the things that he conceded. And in my opinion, it was a disastrous mistake. And it explains why everything has gone completely off the rails. since then. So he is still very nervous, obviously, of meeting Putin by himself, even though he is the person who wants the meeting with Putin. So he's trying to sneak Zelensky into the meeting. And of course, the Russians have not agreed to this and they're not pleased. So it's, at the moment, there's an awful lot between the two to resolve. My guess is that Trump absolutely wants to meet Putin. what he expects

will come out of a meeting with Putin. I have no idea if you listen to what Trump has been saying, and Rubio has been saying, Usherka has been saying. It's absolutely clear that Putin made no concessions on the substantive issues to

wick off at all. I'm not even sure to what extent those substantive issues were even discussed. So what Trump thinks he can achieve by a bilateral summit meeting with Putin. I am not sure. But I suspect he still wants one. He still has this need, his big psychological need for a meeting with Putin. He's investing an awful lot of expectations in this meeting.

And I personally think that when the Russians make it clear, look, look, tripartite meeting with Zelensky really, this isn't the moment for it. We need to have our bilateral meeting first. let's keep this all clean. I think you will probably agree. But we know we'll see what happens over the next couple of days. There's apparently going to be an awful lot of discussion. Ushukov made it absolutely clear that the final arrangements have not been agreed. The only thing that has been agreed in principle is where the meeting will take place.

But it's clear that the summit host has not yet been contacted. It could be Turkey, which is what other one wants, or it could be Saudi Arabia. Lucy. Yeah, the Trump administration, they got into a spin, media spin overdrive yesterday when they said that it was Russia that suggested the bilateral meeting.

Even before Whitkoff went to Moscow, Trump threw out there that Russia wanted Whitkoff to travel to meet. Makes no sense at all. Why would Russia request Whitkoff go to Moscow, just so they can tell Whitkoff that they would like a bilateral meeting with Trump. It makes no sense at all. But I think it's a good example of how the Trump White House, how the United States controls the information war in the media space. And can I just say something

here? The Russians play into it. They always do. They have no understanding. They have no understanding of this at all. So yesterday there was the meeting. between Putin and Wittorf. Ushikov comes out of the meeting, and he says that we're not going to say anything about the meeting because we've basically agreed with the Americans that Wittgolf must brief Trump first. Now, what the Russians thought would come at that,

I have absolutely no idea. I mean, no doubt they're being polite again, as they always are. But, of course, the reality is that by doing that, They surrendered the initiative on the media operation. And Trump took advantage of it. And of course, the Americans took advantage of it. Huge advantage of it. A huge advantage of it.

The Russians are hopeless at this kind of thing. They simply don't understand. I mean, obviously, obviously, that was what Wicked off had instructions to ask on the Russians. He said, I don't, you know, please, can you wait before you say anything about what we've discussed the need to brief Trump first? Exactly. And instead of pushing back on saying that, look, this is important. possible. We have our own responsibilities to tell our own people what our president is discussing

with you. No, the Russians say, fine, you go ahead and do that. And of course, they're now put out because the American spin the account of the meeting in the way that they do. I mean, people who have been following the way the Russians run things in terms of their media operations, clutch their heads and despair. Then we saw another example of it yesterday. But it never changes. and it's deeply frustrating. I would have thought people who are interested in seeing the Russians more effective at this would find it deeply frustrating. I remember even Tucker Carlson asked Putin,

why are you so hopeless of this? And Putin said, well, you know, we're hopeless because we know we will never win against the Americans, which is a council of despair, which makes absolutely no sense. This wasn't a case of waiting. Wuchukov just had to come out after the meeting. Absolutely. And say, look, Whitkoff traveled to Moscow. He wants a bilateral meeting.

We're considering it. We'll give you our answer tomorrow. Tomorrow. Instead, he comes out and he says, they're signaling this to us, and we're signaling that to them. And the talks were very useful and constructive. And we're going to wait for Whitkoff to go back to Washington and brief Trump before we issue a comment. And what does the White House do?

Trump puts out a post. says everything is positive, we're making good progress. Then they get to New York Times to leak the news that there's going to be a bilateral meeting between Trump and Putin and maybe even a trilateral meeting as well at the request of the Russians. Then they leak to Fox News that it's the Russians that requested for the meeting. And maybe the meeting might even take place at the White House. That's what Fox News said. Maybe the meeting will take place to the White House, maybe in Qatar.

maybe even in Switzerland. So that's what Fox News puts out there. And there you have it. Everyone now is talking, or at least yesterday, everyone was talking about how Trump is the strong guy, peace through strength. Trump is the strong guy. Sanctions is working. Putin is requesting for a meeting. The Russian economy is in tatters. Putin does not want the tough tariffs to be placed on Russia and on bricks. And that was the narrative that they spun out there. They even said that Trump was open to Russia's request for a meeting. That was how they how they phrased it. So I mean, Russia got completely outplayed there to their own doing. They did it. They walked straight into it, but they do it over and over and over again and they just do not understand.

It's the most bizarre thing in the world. But you're exactly right. That is how it went down. Trump understands Ukraine is going down. He understands his White House, or at least his White House, better understand that they're going to get the blame for this. This is going to be there, Afghanistan times 100. And they're going to get all the blame for it. And so what does he do? He sends Whitkoff to Moscow. Whitkoff requests a bilateral meeting.

He tells Putin, please don't say anything until I go back to D.C. and talk to Trump. and the Russians fell for it. They fell for it and then the media spin took over in the White House. In White House. Exactly. I mean, it goes all the way back, if I may say, to the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, where Khrushchev and Kennedy did a deal. And the Russians agreed with the Americans to keep the concessions the Americans

made of the Russian Sea. So for decades, people thought that, Khrushchev caved when in fact he didn't. I mean, it's something that the Russians always do. And it's incredible how, despite the fact that it always turns out to their disadvantage, they never learned. But, you know, it's hopeless trying to push back on this, because, well, maybe a future generation of Russian leaders who have not been disciplined in the Soviet school, the information control, because remember all the people, talking about. Uschukov, Putin himself, Lavrov, even Dimitria, are creatures of the Soviet

Iran. But, you know, maybe one day, as I said, future Russian leaders will come to understand the importance of this. But at the moment, they simply don't. It's almost as if they have a kind of contempt for this sort of thing. They think it somehow dirties their fingers if they worry too much about information control. The Chinese, by the way, are completely different. Yeah. Yeah, and you even had Zelensky coming out and saying that the sanctions are working.

You see, the sanctions are working. Russia is now folding to the pressure of the sanctions. Exactly. So what is Trump expecting from this meeting? Because I think that's the main question. We get through all of this stuff, the media spin and the information war. Okay, fine.

The Trump White House is obviously, years ahead, light years ahead of Russia when it comes to media spin and the information war. Well, the Americans are. Of course, they're not telling the truth. They're not telling the truth. But still, the truth doesn't matter when you're dealing with CNN and the New York Times and Fox News.

What is Trump expecting from this? This is the question that I have that I have as well. What is he expecting to sit down with Putin and tell Putin, look, you're going to agree. to the ceasefire, to mince three, we're also going to place 500% sanctions on you and everybody in bricks, and then I'm going to turn it to 5,000% sanctions in a week,

and then a week after that 10 million percent. I mean, terrorists, whatever. What is the goal here? And also, I think, an even better question, Alexander, is what is Putin expecting from this meeting? Does Putin think that he's going to sit across the table from Trump and enlightened Trump as to the reality of what is happening in the conflict in Ukraine? Is he going to tell Trump, you know, the numbers on casualties that you're getting are wrong?

You know, the advances that you're getting or the frontline situation that you're getting is wrong. The information on our economy is wrong. Is that what Putin's expecting from this meeting? Yes, actually, I think it is. I know that sounds naive. But I absolutely think it is. I think one of the things that Putin

I think has come to feel is that Trump has been provided with completely wrong information, both about the state of Russia's economy and about the war. And he believes naively that he's somebody who might be able to, if they

meet, he can explain it all to Trump. He's tried to do this over the phone again and again and let's have an actual sit-down meeting. Let's explain this carefully to Trump, and then maybe Trump will come to understand this. And always at the back of everything, and this is very obvious, if you go and look at the various

commentaries and discussions that you have from the Russians, there is still this hope that even if relations with Europe are beyond retrieval, the Russians have come to realize that the Europeans are hopeless, the Germany, France, Britain, there's no dealings for these people, these people are crazy, that maybe in some way, at some point, somehow, some kind of understanding, long-term understanding with the Americans is possible. And of course, where the Russians office go wrong is that they say to themselves, it's in the American interests. American interests are to come to some kind of long-term understanding with us. We can stabilize Europe.

together, we can make sure that both of our countries are secure and peace. The Americans want to pull their forces out of Europe. So the way that they can do that is by coming to some kind of long-term arrangement with us. And if we sit down with the Americans and we develop a long-term strategic understanding with the Americans now that we are strong and they realize that we are strong, then at some point in some way, we will come to that final end point, which will secure a general peace. Putin has been talking about this consistently. Ever since he addressed the Russian foreign ministry in September 2021.

He said that Russia needs peace and stability on its western borders. The way to do that is by coming to some kind of long-term agreement about, the situation in Europe with the United States. He said that there are people in the Russian foreign ministry who have doubts about this, but we must nonetheless try. And he's got a president in Trump, and he thinks he can achieve that. I think he is going to find that whatever agreements he believes he's going to make with the Americans are going to turn to dust.

And at the same time, I also think that he's in no mood to make consent. about Ukraine. I think going back to what you were saying, Putin knows that he's winning the war in Ukraine. He believes that the point has come where he is in a position of strength, the reverse of what the Americans were saying. And that means that he can finally get the Americans moving towards the strategic relationship. If you listen to what Ushikov was saying both yesterday and today, you can see that, that it's about the long, term strategic relationship between the Americans and the Russians. Some people will say this is unbelievably naive, that it completely misunderstands the American politics and political system and all of that. I know there are many people in Russia by now who think this is completely

naive, too. That number is increasing all the time, but Putin himself has never given up on this. He likes Trump at some level. You can see this. And he's still believes that he can come to some kind of understanding with Trump, and that Trump is the president who is the only president who is likely to come to that sort of understanding with him. So that's, I think, that explains the Russian stance. It's not difficult. It's been set up in comment and statement after statement that the Russians themselves make. As I said, I think that Budin is going to be completely disappointed by this. The key question, will be whether he makes any concessions to the Americans on Ukraine.

I don't believe he will. I think he understands that that is now impossible, that he's set out his terms. He's not going to push, pull back on those terms. He said that as recently as about three or four days ago when he met with Lukashenko at the Valan Monastery. So I don't think he's going to make, I don't think he's naive enough on this to make those kind of concessions.

But he might make broader concessions on other things, arms control, on the Middle East or who knows what. That's going to be my question to you. That's footing. Okay, so that was going to be my question to you. Just a quick question was, what do you think the chances are, that Russia may make concessions? What do you think the chances are that Trump may agree to Istanbul plus, root causes, June 2024? I mean, well, possible or not? It's not impossible.

I mean, the problem is Trump could have done that months ago, and we wouldn't be here. He's resisted this consistently since then. And by resisting this, he's empowered the Hawks. He's got with the Hawks, the Neacomons, let's call them the Neacomte. So we've got this bill by Lindsay Graham and Richard Blumenthal hovering around in the Senate. We've had tariffs that he's threatening to impose against other countries. And it's, no, I think becoming increasingly clear that Trump really doesn't want to impose tariffs of that kind. His tariffs against India, which we will discuss in another program, turned out to be much weaker than he had initially threatened.

He understands the dangers to the US economy if he really were to propel himself into an economic war. And I think he also understands the dangers to himself. So it is not impossible that he might agree to Istanbul plus, but it will be an impossibly difficult cell in the United States. And in Europe, of course, it's out of the class, you know. They'll be furious about it. We'll see. But what could have been done if it had been agreed in March,

and I think could have been agreed without much, difficulty is going to be a very, very difficult, certainly indeed, probably an impossible one now. So I suspect the opportunity that that has been lost. That's my sense. Right. Notice no Europeans are going to be present. Well, that is... Yeah. Even though Trump, according to the New York Times, Trump did call the Europeans. I think they said he called Finland Stubb, Mertz, and Stammer, I believe, were the... And Ruta of Neda, I believe, those were the four people that were on the call along with Zelensky.

So, okay. Again, we can understand this, because as it going back to February, when the Americans and the Russians were talking to each other directly, and they cut out the Europeans then, Europe had a collective nervous breakdown. I mean, they were very, very angry and upset by that. And you could see that, you know, he's saying, I'm going to bring Zelensky along. And that's what's calming them at the moment. But if over the next couple of days we get into a situation where the Americans agree to what the Russians want, a clean summit without Zelensky, then you're going to start to see the criticism in Europe. And by the way, in the United States, restart it. Yeah, I mean, dialogue is good.

Well, it's very good. I mean, it's much better to have a president of the United States speaking with the president of Russia than what we had under Biden, which was no communication. at all. So, I mean, this is a very positive step. But the fear that I have is that Trump may leave this meeting. Well, two scenarios, I think it happened. I think the first scenario is what you said. Trump may actually agree to some stuff, in which case he will then go back to D.C. and Lindsey Graham will tell him no. And then he's going to have to walk back everything. And then Trump's going to get angry and frustrated and they're going to put all the blame on Russia or or Trump may go to this meeting and realize that he's not able to move Putin to a ceasefire

and he's going to leave the meeting frustrated and angry and the United States is going to put all of the blame on Russia. And maybe that's the purpose of this meeting. You know, I was seeing an article from CNN which says this is Putin's trap. towards Trump. And then they go over the, they make the case that that Putin has never wanted peace. Anyway, they go over all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, uh, all the lies that they've been telling over the past, uh, three years about the conflict in Ukraine. And they presented as, as Putin's

trap towards towards, towards Trump. But maybe this is, this is more of a, of a U.S. a neocon trap towards, uh, towards Russia and towards Trump in, in that they understand that there's not going to be any kind of resolution. They will never permit the neocons will never permit a resolution to this conflict. And they're the ones in charge, ultimately. They're running things. And after the meeting, they can say, okay, we tried everything. And they're going to tell Trump, you tried everything. There is no resolution. So we have $55 billion ready to go and funding to Project Ukraine. And and let's get moving. And we have 500% bone crushing sanctions or whatever, whatever else they have up their sleeve. So I'm thinking maybe this may turn against Russia, but also turn against

Trump. And ultimately, this may be the meeting that ends everything as far as any type of repression is concerned between Russia and the United States. That's the risk that I see with this. Of course, on the flip side, it goes back to what I said, the dial. is much better than not having dialogue. Yeah. I think this is absolutely correct. And I think, you know, we can have concerns, but it's absolutely definitely better that they should be talking to each other.

I mean, the Biden policy of not talking has brought us to the point of almost complete disaster. I mean, I did programs on my channel about the fact that the Russians have now walked out of their self-limit limitations. on in terms of abiding by the INF Treaty. They're now talking about deploying missiles all around the world. They are. I think people are not tracking carefully what the Russians are saying. Arms control is on the brink of complete collapse. This is all a product of the disastrous policy of the Biden period

when there were no contacts or discussions between the two most powerful nuclear superpowers, at all. So Trump restarting dialogue is a good thing. But in all other respects you set out the traps perfectly. You're completely right. Firstly, the narrative

about this being a trap by Putin for Trump is all over the media here in Britain. I mean, it's there in CNN and of course the British media are echoing it today. That this is all Putin

cleverly maneuvering Trump into a trap you could see already the narrative. Stringing him along. Stringing him along. Buying time. Bying time. All that, all that

hopeless, pointless, stupid narrative is coming back and is all over the place. But you're absolutely correct because that's the point about Trump going to this meeting believing that he's going to come out of it with the freezing.

of the conflict, but he's going to make the Kellogg plan happen, and then coming out furious when it doesn't, either furious at the meeting itself or furious after he's made some concessions to Putin, and the neocons veto them, and then Trump turns against Putin. Well, that's exactly what's happened in connection with the Istanbul talks. Trump thought the Istanbul talks, the talks, The talks between the Ukrainians and the Russians mean that there's going to be a ceasefire. There's going to be a freeze of the conflict immediately now within the next couple of weeks. And it didn't happen. And he got incredibly angry about it.

And we've seen how this massive tantrum that he's had has played out over the last couple of weeks. And he's been quite open about it as Trump, in fairness to him, actually always is. and we've ended up with the threats of secondary sanctions and tariffs and all of that and all of those other things and arms supplies and more weapons to Ukraine and more recommitment to Ukraine. So it's entirely possible when he meets with Putin, wherever it is that he does eventually meet with Putin and discovers that Putin is not in the move to make the kind of concessions that he's looking for, that he've come away, again, furious, We'll have another tantrum. And I agree with you. If that happens, then whatever prospect there is, for any kind of rapprochement between America and Russia,

during Trump's term will have gone. What do you think the chances are that Trump convinces Putin for a trilateral meeting with Zelensky? I don't think it's something I would completely exclude, actually. I mean, it's not as if for the Russians this is a make-or-break issue. They don't want to meet Zelenskyy. They don't like Zelensky. Putin doesn't like Zelensky.

The Russians don't like Zelensky. They don't consider him as they've made it clear the legitimate constitutional president of Ukraine. However, they have accepted him as the de facto leader of Ukraine. So it's not something, as I said, that they would probably want to jeopardize the entire relationship with the United States over. Having said that. What would be the purpose of a meeting? I was going to say that having said that, it's not something they would want to do. And I think they're going to make that very, very clear.

And it's not something that they've agreed to. So if they thought that if it was a deal breaker for Trump, in other words, that the summit wouldn't go ahead. because the Russians are saying we don't want Zelensky there and that this is going to lead to another bust up and more threats, sanctions, terrorists and all that kind of thing.

The Russians might say, well, look, okay, we can have him in the next room. We can speak to him for five minutes or whatever it is and then send him on his way. They might agree to that, but I don't think that they would want to do it

and I think that they would be saying to the Americans, this is going to dirty the summit. it's going to spoil both the atmosphere of the summit and it's going to raise expectations and Putin has already warned against expectations, raising expectations. It's going to raise expectations which really we don't want to see happen. So we are against this. We've not agreed to this. If you want to brief Zelensky afterwards about what we discussed of the summit,

That's obviously, you're right. But we don't want to meet Zelensky. If you want to bring him along to whatever it is that we meet, and he's in the next room, and then we have our meeting, Trump and Putin, in other words, have our meeting. And then Putin returns to Moscow. And then Trump meets Zelensky. That might be an arrangement. But Putin himself doesn't meet Zelensky. Well, that might be an option. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I mean, like a trilateral meeting, all three leaders. sitting at a table. What would be the chances of that, but what would be the reasoning behind that? I would imagine for the Russian side, the only reason to sit at the table with Trump and Zelenskyy,

the opposite side of the table. I mean, these are the country, the United States, that is waging a proxy war using Ukraine against Russia. So you would be sitting across the table from Trump and Zelenskyy, because you have some sort of a final deal, whatever that may be. I imagine for the Russians, that would be the only reason to actually have that meeting.

Why else would you have that meeting? And wouldn't having that meeting outside of actually a negotiated deal that's ready to sign if you don't have that, but you still go forward with that meeting? Wouldn't that be a huge concession for Russia? because Putin has been saying, and Russia has been saying for a while now, he's not legitimate, he's illegitimate. And there you are recognizing him. You are recognizing him by having the meeting. I mean, that's the way. And the international community would see it like that. Yes, I don't think it would be a huge concession, but it would be a concession. And I don't think it's a concession the Russians are in any mood to make it at this time. I mean, Uschukov basically said so. I mean, you know, the Americans are talking about this,

but we've not agreed to this, and clearly that they don't want it. I think they will push over the next couple of days for a clean bilateral meeting between Trump and Putin. And by the way, I think Trump will agree to that. I think that Trump will ultimate, I think here it will be Trump will agree, because he's clearly more interested in meeting Putin than Putin is in meeting Trump. Can I just repeat again? it was the Americans who asked for this meeting. About that, I have no doubt,

all the spin we were hearing yesterday makes absolutely no sense of the sequence of moves that we've seen. If it was the Russians you asked for the meeting, then sending WICGov to Moscow in that way makes absolutely no sense at all. So that's the first thing to say.

So I don't think the Russians will agree to this, because I don't think they feel they have to agreed to this. I think if Trump insists on having Zelensky there, I think the Russians

will want arrangements to be agreed to make it very, very clear that it's not a concession on any substantive matter from their point of view, that the Americans want him there. It's not the Russians.

This is a dialogue between Russia and the United States. It's not a dialogue between Russia and Ukraine, that this is the purpose of this meeting. So I think that is what they will do. Having Zelensky floating around is not something that the Russians, I think, would object to. A photograph in which there's all the three of them sitting together around a table is another matter. Yeah. Final question.

Trump is going to be bringing the Kellogg ceasefire plan. That's their goal. Agree to a freeze, agree to Minsk 3. Russia has June 224 root causes. They're very far apart, extremely far apart. Is there a possibility that quietly behind the scenes, both sides have been working to bridge the gaps? without anyone knowing? Well, there is an intriguing, strange thing going on,

which it's difficult to know quite what to make of it. But Putin has had two conversations with Benjamin Etienne Yarki, and the Israelis have acted as mediators before in this conflict. Now, the first conversation, we have a readout on the Russians, and it was all about the Middle East, according to the readout. The second conversation, there was no readout at all. I wonder, I wonder perhaps the purpose of that call was to get the Russians to agree to see Wickoff and to agree to this meeting. You know, that the Israelis have acted as some kind of mediators before.

But Rubio said a few days ago that there had been a meeting, a private secret meeting between the Americans. and the Russians discussing the conflict in Ukraine shortly before. There's been no public reports of that meeting. Rubio was the first person to disclose it. I said at the time when Rubio disclosed it, that this is very interesting because it suggested that the Russians and the Americans, even if they were not agreeing, were secretly negotiating directly about Ukraine

without the Europeans or the Ukrainians being involved. just say. Perhaps there have been some more discussions going on about which we know nothing. It's very interesting to find out who is participated in those discussions. But to repeat again, Rubio did say that the Americans found the Russians unbending in this meeting. Yeah, would it surprise you if they announced some sort of a deal? Yes, it would surprise me but, you know, this is

diplomacy. Things can happen. I don't think there will be a deal. And in fact, if you're looking at both what the Americans and the Russians, both the Trump people, and Ushikov have been saying over the last two days,

I mean, they're both done playing the prospects of the deal that we've done. I mean, they're both saying there's going to be a lot of work and a lot of things have to be sorted out and Ruby is still holding up possibility. And Trump insult is still holding up the possibility that things could completely break down and that there might be further escalation in the relationship between the Americans and the Russians

over the next few weeks. That may be the point to all of this, yeah. That may be what all of this is about, at least for the globalists, for the Europeans, for the neocons. They're probably hoping that this meeting leads to frustration and anger and a breakdown and more money. They have $55 billion ready to go. They've announced it.

Absolutely. So they're probably hoping that that's going to be the result of this meeting. And they'll be able to push Trump to greenlight the 55 billion to Ukraine, which is an equivalent amount of what Biden gave to Ukraine. It is absolutely. I mean, we are back in effect to where we were under Biden. The United States, the U.S. taxpayers, funding weapons transfers. and direct grants to Ukraine in exactly the way that was the case last year when Joe Biden was present. All of Trump's promises turn to dust.

Yeah, he just needs a way, at least concerning the $55 billion, he needs a way to explain it to his base. Because he said, he promised, no money to Ukraine. And so now you have this $55 billion ready and waiting come September when the Senate is back in session. they're going to push this through and it's going to be there waiting for Trump to green light it and he needs a way to explain to his base why he is going to give $55 billion to Ukraine and perhaps his anger and frustration with Putin. I tried. You see, I even met with him one on one.

Nothing came out of it. Putin is not ready for peace. That's what they're going to say and he doesn't want peace. So, you know, we're going to have to give Ukraine more money. Just one final final question. Did you read the fact sheet from the White House that they put out on Russia and India and the tariffs? Doesn't it concern you the language that they used in this fact sheet where they are saying that Russia is a U.S. national security threat? They say it about three, four times in this fact sheet.

I thought it was very, very alarming language that the Trump White House is using with regards to Russia. Absolutely. It's not just in the fact sheet. It's in the executive order. And this came out yesterday. It's now, in effect, in the United States, that Russia or the government of the Russian Federation is a, you know, a danger to the national security and foreign policy of the United States. I mean, extraordinary language and all signed off just a few hours before Trump says, you know, there's been all this wonderful movement with the,

with the Russians, we've had this meeting, really successful meeting, we wish off and Putin, the breakthrough, and nothing has clearly has been to breathe. So absolutely, and, you know, just to say just to say clearly, there are reasons, there are reasons why one can understand why this language, legal reasons, why this language was inserted into this fact sheet and into the executive order. And it goes back to something that we discussed with Robert Barnes in the program. We just did with him about the US economy, because Robert has pointed out that this Saxon strict tariffs are now at the farthest edge of legality. Apparently the courts are already asking questions. How can you really justify these tariffs as an economic immerseys?

if, you know, they're really, they're really sanctioned and that they're starting to look as if Trump might lose the case, the administration might lose the case. So they're now trying perhaps to argue that this is a national security emergency and that's why this is somehow justified and should be allowed to stand. But, of course, in a way, whatever the motives, the fact that that language is there and is now embedded in an executive order is going to have consequences going forward. Because what Trump says in a press conference is just air ultimately. It dissipates. It goes nowhere. What is in an executive order is US law. And people like Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham, Tom Cotton, Richard Blum, Richard Blum.

Lumom and Sol, all of the other neocons are going to come along and say, well, look, your own executive order says that the Russians are, you know, a danger, a national security danger to the United States. So how can you hold back from imposing bone crushing sections against them? And you must treat them as a country with which we're in effect in a kind of war. So, you know, actions speak louder than words. And the executive order is. action and the words that are written in the executive order perhaps carry more weight in the end than everything else that we've been hearing over the last couple of days and hours and even this agreement for a summit meeting. Now, I will say one thing. That's exactly what I thought

to. Yeah, there is one other thing. I do want to say. And this goes completely against the spin that we heard yesterday, which is that in a. kind of way Trump has blinked. I mean, he has been imposing all of these all of these deadlines. You know, he wants a deal done, in 50 days, within 10 days, by the 8th of August,

all sorts of terrible things are going to happen. There's been no deal done in any of that time. The Ukrainians and the Russians have not agreed to any kind of deal. The Russians have said that they're not agreed to it. And the tariffs that Trump has imposed on India turned out to be a lot less severe than we were led to expect. And instead of these bone crushing sanctions, at least not so far, we're getting a talk of a meeting with Putin. So talking again about action speaking louder than words, the language of the executive order. is the most important thing.

Trump's moves over the last couple of hours, days in fact, his decision to send Wick off to Moscow, shows that he knows deep down that he's not in a position of strength. Everything else really is inconsequential. And what comes out of the meeting with Putin? I don't know, but I would not be surprised if at the end of it, it's the language in the executive order that would be. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

I completely agree with that. Yeah, a lot of money in Project Ukraine, and they're not just going to give it up. Yeah. All right. We will end the video there. The duran. Notlocals.com. We are on X and Rumble and Telegram and go to the Duran shop, pick up some merch, like what we are

wearing in this video update. There's a link in the description box down below. Take care.