The Duran Podcast - Putin's contempt for Macron

Episode Date: July 5, 2025

Putin's contempt for Macron

All right, Alexander, we are a couple of days removed from the phone call between Macron and Putin. The Kremlin, and I think this was done on purpose, the Kremlin interviewed, or they had their reporter, Zadubin. Yeah, Zadubin interviewed Peskhov. And this was intentional. And he interviewed Peskof, and they made it clear in the exchange as they were talking about the phone call between Putin and Macron, that it was Macron. who initiated the call with Putin because in the readouts, they didn't say who initiated the call. But in this interview, I think the Kremlin wanted to make it clear that it was Makron

that was chasing after Putin. And so that's what Peskov said in this interview with the Russian journalist Zarubin. So the phone call between Putin and Macron, Macron calling Putin. a sign of European defeat. They're finally starting to realize that they cannot win this conflict

with Russia. We're still at the beginning of this realization of reality hitting the European Union, but finally a little bit of reality is breaking into their EU bubble. And Macron was the person who had to step

up and call Putin. Who else was going to call Putin? Would it have been Ursula, Ayak, Alice, Mertz? It had to be Makron. There's no one else. So what were your thoughts on this fall call? It was a fascinating call in many ways. It lasted for two hours.

That's longer than any of the calls that Putin has had with Trump. And it's typical. And it's interesting that you made the point about Peskov's interview with Sarubin, because of course, what you can actually see from that interview is the drip of Russian contempt for Macron. They really don't like him. Putin, it is known, doesn't like him. Macron has played the Russians in ways that the Russians absolutely do not like. He turned up in Moscow before they started the special military operation. He spent hours with Putin coming up with all sorts of you know, clever words and talking about how, you know, we mustn't see the breakdown of relations

and we've got to move forward towards new security arrangements in Europe and that, you know, any attack on Ukraine is going to spoil all of that. And the Russians quickly came to the conclusion that he was wasting their time. And it was all empty air. And then, of course, the moment the special military operation began. Macross switched from being this person who was going to be the great, you know, peacemaker. He became, in some ways, the most extreme hawk of all, the most anti-Russian figure of all. He was the one who supplied, the first to supply armoured vehicles. He was the man whose finance minister said that the decision, that the sanctions were intended to destroy the Russian economy. He was the first person to float.

the idea of sending troops, French troops to Ukraine. He went to Trump and tried to get Trump to agree to provide a backstop for sending European troops to Ukraine. He's talked in the most belligerent terms about the Russians. Scal missiles. Missiles, absolutely, missiles, all of that. So he's been the most extreme, hardliner of all. And at the same time, he also appointed himself about two months ago the European Union's chief negotiator with the Russians, which was bizarre. I mean, Sanchez said they needed a chief negotiator. Callas said that it should be her. Everybody said, you must be joking.

And then Macron said, no, it's going to be me. And that was it. That was the end of the discussion about it. It was very bizarre altogether. Anyway, he spent two months. He's done nothing. then, except finally now he telephones Putin. And the Russian readout really tells the whole story because there's been this crisis in the Middle East between Israel and Iran. Macron

used that as cover to call Putin. So the spin that's been constructed is that this is all about Iran and Israel and the Middle East and trying to prevent the situation. They're escalating. But it's obviously about Ukraine. And in fact, it was clear that that was the main purpose of the call. And the Russian readout on the section that deals with Ukraine is almost insulting. It says the Putin spells everything up, points out that it's entirely the fault of the West, that this crisis ever arose at all. He summarizes all the various Russian talking points and terms for ending the war,

war and basically makes it absolutely clear that Putin is not shifting. But the point is, Macro is now talking to Putin, and I suspect there will be more conversations with Putin. The earlier part of the call, the one about the discussion on the Middle East situation, said that the two would remain in touch. That is the main point of the call. In other words, that they're going to now, from now on, speak regularly with each other. And you can see that some of the more rational people within

the EU system now understand that the Russians are going to win the war and that some kind of dialogue with the Russians from this moment on is essential. So Macron is now finally fulfilling his role as chief negotiator, though it's clear that he came to this conversation with no new Langea is. Yeah, the Kremlin is getting quite a bit of pushback for actually speaking to Macaron, for picking up the call from a Macaron, given everything that Macon has said and done. And I think that's the most important part. He's not only said terrible and nasty things about Russia and the Russian leadership and the Russian people, but he's done a lot of terrible things to escalate this war and to promote this conflict. So the Kremlin is getting,

getting pushback, but Putin has always said, he's on record saying that if anyone from the West calls me, whether it's Macon or Stam or Merck, whoever, I will pick up the phone. But still, he's getting that pushback. What is, what is Macron looking to do? Because according to the statements from France, Macron talked about unwavering support for Ukraine, Ukraine's territorial integrity and that France is going to support Ukraine no matter what, and that Russia has to agree to the ceasefire. So he's pushing the ceasefire. As long as it takes was Macron's message, according to the French readouts,

as long as it takes, we support Ukraine and Russia, Putin. You have to come to the table with the terms of the ceasefire. Imagine you're talking about the 30-day unconditional Kellogg ceasefire freeze. That's what they want Putin to, to agree to. Putin was very clear, according to the Kremlin readout, Istanbul Plus, root causes. That's it. The new territories are part of the Russian Federation. And Putin took it a step further and he actually blamed the West for everything that's happened. I mean, the readout says it. You guys are at fault. You guys did this and you guys continue to do this. That's what Putin told

Macron. So I mean, there's quite a lot of distance there. What's the goal? Because Russia's not going to to adjust its position, if anything, it's just going to get harder. They're going to harder in their position. So is Macron, are the Europeans prepared to meet Russia at Istanbul plus root causes? I doubt that. But what are your thoughts? They're not. And I just want to say one important thing.

I mean, Putin has consistently said right from the outset that if the Western leaders want to call him, he will not refuse their calls. It was the Western leaders, the Western leadership, Biden, Macron's, Stama, before that, Johnson and Truss and all of those, Sunak. They all came together and agreed that whilst the Ukraine conflict was underway, until the Russians capitulated and accepted Zelensky's peace plan, they would not speak to Putin. I mean, they basically tried to freeze the Russians out. So Macron now calling Putin in the way that he has done is the breaking of that decision. It's the end of that decision. Schultz, Allah, Schultz did call Putin twice before the German election, but it was clearly a pro forma conversations intended to help Schultz through the election and everybody could see

that he was on his way out anyway because he was going to lose the election. Whereas with Macron, what Macron is doing, he's talking, he's calling the Russians as chief negotiator and he has, in effect, reversed Western policy. The Russians haven't reversed anything. And I think the other thing to say is, if the Russians showed any inclination to make concessions on seized fires and things like that, then I think some of these criticisms that people make of Putin for speaking to people like Macron might carry some weight. But the reality is that the Russians are making no concessions at all and show no inclination to. And on the contrary, exactly as you said,

are hardening their position. So I think that this call, what it does is, demonstrate the extent to which the situation is moving now decisively to Russia's advantage, that the Europeans no longer can go on pretending that they don't need to speak to the Russians. They accept that they finally have to. So the Russians, Putin, are the winners from the fact that this call has taken place at all. Now, to the extent that the Europeans have a strategy, and, you know, we don't. talk about the Europeans. Not all Europeans are signed up to this. I mean, Matt's probably isn't. I suspect that Meloni and Sanchez are, the Meloni can't stand Macron. And there's

issues between Sanchez and Macron as well. So, I mean, you know, but let's all get bogged down with all of that. To the extent that the Europeans have a strategy, and I don't think they do have a strategy, a clearly formed strategy. But probably what at some level they do now realize is that this war is going to end. It's going to end in a Russian victory. All the brave talk about increasing defence spending is not as worthless because they're not going to be able to put together strong-armed forces or anything of that kind. The Americans are gradually distancing themselves from Europe, and probably what is now gradual will become faster as events unfold.

So the Europeans have no choice but to resume contacts with the country, Russia, which has demonstrated conclusively that it is far. far and away the most powerful country on the European continent. So I think this is basically what this is about. It's about beginning a long-term dialogue with the Russians that goes beyond the Ukraine war and using the topic of the conflict in the Middle East as a cover to begin these discussions. Well, let's talk briefly about Iran because they did discuss it and the IAE. France and the UK, they're freaked out at the fact that Iran is going to possibly leave the NPT.

I don't know if that's been fully decided yet if they're going to leave the nonproliferation treaty. But it does look like Iran is on that path, and it absolutely looks like Iran is going to stop all cooperation with the IAEA. In other words, the IAEA is not going to step foot in Iran. and France and the UK are freaking out. Europe is freaking out, rightly so. But they are aligned with Russia on this issue because Russia also doesn't want Iran to ditch the NPT. And so they do have something that they can work on together. The difference is that Russia has good relations with Iran and can speak to Iran, where the collective West cannot. So Macron, is going to Russia, he's going to Putin, and I imagine he's telling Putin, what can you do to

make sure or to try and convince Iran not to ditch the NPT and to not leave or to not stop cooperating with the IAEA? That was pretty much Macaron's ask of Russia. So they need Russia. And Putin said this in the past. You can try to shut out, shut us out all you want, sanction us, do all these things to Russia, but the world cannot function without Russia. And we're seeing it now. The world needs Russia, the West needs Russia. And so that's what they're asking of Putin. That's what Macron is asking of Putin. And Putin also wants to try to figure out a way to keep Iran in the NPT and somehow working with the IAEA. So what do you think is going to be the solution there, perhaps, I was thinking perhaps an IAEA without Grosie and his team. I don't know.

What do you think Russia's going to do in order to try and get Iran to not leave these treaties? My own view about that is quite straightforward. I mean, if we're talking about the IAEA going back into Iran, there needs to be a major reform of the IAEA. I mean, that Grossey definitely has to leave. And his immediate team have to leave all. Also, I mean, the Iranians have every reason to be furious with the IAEA. I cannot imagine that they will let it back in. Even someone like Peschka is now saying that is unacceptable. And the Russians absolutely know it.

Now, the Russians do not want Iran to leave the NPT. But the NPT and the IA are bound up together. If you're going to be a member of the MPT, you have to cooperate with the IAEA, otherwise you're in violation of the MPT. So you're absolutely correct. The Iranians slamming the door on the IAEA means that they are in breach of the NPT, and that brings them inevitably closer to the point when they leave the MPT. So the French, the British, the Europeans, some people in the United States are absolutely

right to freak out about this. But putting aside the fact that the Russians want to keep Iran in the MPT, put aside that the only way to do that would be to conduct major changes to the IAEA and to see the back of Grassee and all of that. There is something else because what Putin said, and we can take this clearly from the Russian readout, and Macron was obliged to agree with him, What Putin says is, look, if we're in this mess, it's because of you again.

You attacked Iran. Whereas you, Israel, who is your ally and the United States, which is your ally, attacked Iran. They attacked Iran. They committed this. They crossed all of those red lines. If we are going to get back to a position where we can persuade the Iranians to fully recommit to the NPT and to start letting a reformed IAEA back in, then there have to be absolute cast iron guarantees that attacks like this are not going to happen again. Now, this isn't, you know,

us speculating. It's actually there in the Russian readout if you read it carefully. the Russians are saying, and Macron, by the way, agreed with them, or at least appeared to, that there must be no further attacks of this kind on Iran. Now, that actually chimes very closely with what the Iranians are saying. Arachi, the Iranian foreign minister, said that before Iran can contemplate any future negotiations with the Americans about Iran's enrichment program, there must be absolute guarantees that there won't be another attack of the same kind against Iran. So one suspects that there's been conversations going on between the Iranians and the Russians

and probably the Iranians and others, the Chinese, for example, and that some kind of consensus is starting to shape. and that this is one of the things that the Russians explained to Macron during this conversation. But then, of course, that creates a whole set of other problems, because what guarantees that there won't be an American or Israeli attack in the future? Can the United States give? Can it provide guarantees for itself? Can it provide guarantees for Israel?

And if it does give these guarantees, what weight can Iran place on them? These are huge questions, and I'm not going to even try to answer them in this program, but we can see that there are discussions taking place. I think if we are going to move forward, then reforming the IAA, getting rid of Grossey and his entire team is probably the first and the easiest. step to take. And I hope that people in Washington and in the European capitals understand that. Because otherwise, just as we discussed in earlier programs, we have a situation where it looks as if the Iranians still have their enriched uranium and they have all the capabilities to

resume enrichment and they can in fact enrich that already enriched uranium that they have to that further level and they can move forward with a nuclear weapons program and there are no inspections and nobody really knows what they're doing anymore. So we are in a very dangerous and very difficult situation. And the first step, as I said, deal with the crisis in the IAA and see where that goes. All right. We will end the video there at the durand.com. We are on Rumble and and Odyssey and go to the Duran Shop, pick up some merch like what we are wearing. In this video update, there is a link to the Duran Shop in the description box down below. Take care.