The Duran Podcast - Scaring Zelensky into a ceasefire

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

Scaring Zelensky into a ceasefire The Duran: Episode 1787

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the reports, specifically from the New York Times, but from various other collective West media outlets, that Russian President Vladimir Putin is using back-channel diplomacy in order to try and get a ceasefire or freeze to the conflict in Ukraine. Basically, Putin is, is, boasting about Russia's trajectory towards victory and how Russia is going to look after its interests and is not interested at this moment in dealing with the collective West or negotiating, with the collective West, seeing that it's winning this conflict butt. But behind closed doors, Putin is actually very keen on getting a freeze or ceasefire to this war in Ukraine.

Ukraine, especially given that he has an election in March 24, and he wants to try and wrap this whole Ukraine conflict up before the election. In 2024, sounds like a lot of projection to me, to be quite honest. But anyway, what are your thoughts with all of these articles, specifically the one from the New York Times, I think, caught a lot of people's. It is the New York Times article that has triggered this. And by the way, and this is the one point where I do agree with some of the commentaries, I think this New York Times article was carefully inserted and published.

And we'll talk about the publication. The way this kind of article gets published in a moment, it was published because a Russian aircraft, which belongs to, I think, either the foreign ministry or the Kremlin or something like that, was, anyway, the Russian government went to D.C. and was there for 54. hours. We don't really know what it was doing there. But of course, this article then appears at exactly the time when this aircraft is there. Of course, the US government would know that this aircraft was on its way because the Russians need to get permission before they can send

an aircraft like this. Most likely, as I said, this aircraft was carrying out various logistical duties for the Russian diplomatic mission in Washington, D.C. and perhaps the one in New York. It seems that kind of thing happens regularly, but you know, you can spread stories that there's some kind of secret negotiation going on. The team of high-level people have been sent to Washington, that they're speaking with the State Department there, which people, of course, nobody says. why they would come to Washington in that kind of way. I mean, negotiations aren't arranged in this fashion. Can I say this straightaway?

I mean, you know, we both, or you come from a diplomatic family. I've been involved with people who were in diplomacy. When two great powers want to conduct quiet diplomacy with each other, they don't do it in this fashion. They meet in some third country, as happened with Burns, and Naryshkin last year when they met in Ankara, as usual feelers and things of that kind, but we don't get a whole big aircraft coming to Washington in that kind of way. So you then publish this article at the same time as this aircraft is underway.

And then you go and read this article, there's a few things that immediately stand up. The first is that it's clearly an article that has been prompted by someone from the US, government. I mean, if you take a step back and think about it, you're not, if you're the editor of the New York Times, you're not going to suddenly out of nowhere, ask one of your, a group of your reporters to go out and investigate whether Putin is making secret feelers to the West, because you've got no reason to think that. So what has happened is that the US government has contacted. the New York Times. They've roped in to Russians who we're told are not serving Russian officials, but have had links with the Kremlin in the past or have links with the Kremlin. We've no idea

who these people are. You get all the usual international diplomats to join in, presumably most of the British. And you spin a story. And when you look at the story, it's, is unbelievably vague. It is completely contradictory. We hear about these back channel contacts between the Russians and the Americans to try and agree for the Russians wanting to agree a ceasefire. We've had comments now from Russian officials, all of them saying this is not true. And we've had this article itself telling us that when they contacted Peskov himself, Putin spokesman, and they put all this to him, this is the New York Dipes, he said, this isn't true. None of this is happening. You know, we, we, our president has said already, we are going to proceed until all the objectives,

we're going to continue to all the objectives set out at the start of the special military operation are achieved. But what this article does is it again, floats this idea of the ceasefire, the freezing of the conflict along the current front lines, the armistice, if you like, in advance of elections. And of course, it's not the Russian elections in March. It's the American elections in November that are the concern. And can I just say, there's been a very interesting interview that Sergei Lavrov gave to Dmitri's. Tannenen and others a couple of days ago, which I think explains and provides the explanation for all that's going on. And Lavrov didn't talk about this particular incident, this particular episode, because he hadn't yet arisen. But he said that back in April, he met, he was in New York.

He invited Richard Hass and five others to meet with him. They had a discussion about a events in Ukraine, which is absolutely normal. And he went back to Moscow and then he discovered and the Russians discovered, and we've covered this extensively over the last couple of months, the Russians discovered that a back channel between the US government and themselves supposedly had been set up via Richard Hass and these people who Lavrov met in New York. And Lavrov said this is simply not true. We never had any kind of serious discussions with any of these people. But we have assessed this as the Americans trying to exert pressure on Ukraine.

What they're trying to do is that they're trying to push the Ukraine. into starting negotiations with us about freezes of the conflict because they want to freeze of the conflict, but they don't want to negotiate directly with us, but they want to scare the Ukrainians into doing this by giving the Ukrainians to think that if the Ukrainians don't initiate these negotiations right away, then the Americans will stay. step in and do it in their place. So this is a way of putting pressure on Zelensky. And I think Lavrov has got it absolutely right. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I read that article and I was like, okay, this is a whole lot of wishful thinking projection because it's actually the Biden White

House that wants the freeze. I mean, that's obvious. They're desperate for a freeze or some sort of ceasefire or a pause as they enter the elections in 2024. But they're throwing it all on the Russians. They're projecting everything on to Putin and the Russians. But you know the claim that a lot of this is meant to to scare the Olensky regime into calling up Russia and engaging in negotiations is actually confirmed by the statement from Ukraine that they made the other day, which is that the New York Times is employing Russian propagandists who wrote this article. which kind of shows you that Ukraine may be onto this game that the State Department is playing. It seems like they've realized what the State Department's trying to do.

And now they're coming back and they're saying, you know, the New York Times, they're carrying water for the Kremlin now by saying that Putin wants to ceasefire and he wants to freeze the conflict. And they're writing about this in collective West media. And this is Russian propaganda. And as Ukraine, we're going to fight on and we're not going to give an inch of territory. and our goal is to take this all the way to Crimea. I mean, they come back and then they say the same statements that they always say,

but it seems like they've caught on to what the State Department is trying to do. Exactly. I think if you think about it, it's absolutely obvious. You have this Russian aircraft in Washington, D.S. As I said, I'm sure that's a routine flight. And you published this article, and the two together intended to scare people in Kiev. And, you know, behind the Ukrainian bluster, and I think you're right, I think the Ukrainians have seen through it, but it's highly likely that there will have been some anxious calls from Kiev to Washington. What exactly is it going on? Is there really a big Russian delegation in D.C. at the moment? Who is speaking with them? All of this sort of thing. This is what this is all about.

And I think the other thing to say, and here we are exceptionally privileged, if I could say so, was a new news channel, in that we've had two people who are guests, regular guests on the Duran, who've just been to Moscow, Alistair Crook and Larry Johnson, and they've just been to Moscow, and they've had a number of meetings there with senior Russian officials. including one whom we are not going to name, but we know who it is, can I just say? And this is somebody who, if negotiations really were taking place, would certainly know about them. And in fact, Larry Johnson has just made that very point in a piece that he's written on Sonod 21. Anyway, you can see the programs that we've done subsequent to that visit to Moscow by both Alistair Crook and by Larry Johnson.

and you can also see what each of those people have written. And they say they've had meetings with the Russians, including with this particular Russian official. And the Russians have said they have no contacts, no substantive talk contacts with the Americans whatsoever. They find it impossible to conduct discussions. In fact, they're concerned about the fact that even on simple things like, well, not simple things, important things like arms control,

never mind Ukraine. The Americans don't want to talk with them. For the Americans to talk with the Russians, the American seed is toxic now. So given that this is so, this is in such complete contradiction to what this New York Times article is spinning. That, I mean, it makes no sense. And we know that that is what those. Russian officials were telling Alistair Crook and Larry Johnson. And I don't believe those Russian officials were making it up. And they were actual Russian officials, not the fictional ones, who are not even Russian officials, that we see in this New York Times article.

So just a final thought. So Lavrov, the Russians, they figure this out. They know what game is being played. It looks like Ukraine has figured this out. They know what's being played, what game is being played with all this Putin ceasefire talk. You know who it seems hasn't figured this out and is in a panic? Are the EU leaders and the leaders of the UK? It seems like they've been kept out of the loop of this little State Department sci-up that they're trying to put together in order to pressure Ukraine into negotiation because, you know, over the past couple of days, we've seen crazy panic statements from EU officials, from Borrell, from the UK Defense Secretary Grant Shaps. You know, there's not enough money. We need to do everything we can to keep this war going.

We have to give Ukraine everything. Burrell's like, you know, we have to make sure that Ukraine gets everything they need. And you can see that they're in a bit of a panic. So I think this, this New York Times article really did fool them. No, absolutely. But he didn't believe that Putin, that that, that, that, there's going to be some ceasefire being cooked up, and they're not even in the in the no. They've been left out. Yeah. So I think they've brought into this, this narrative.

Oh, I think you're absolutely right. But, you know, bear in mind that for them, they, they're, what, what we've discussed in various programs before, the thing that scares the most, even more than a total defeat of Ukraine is the Americans and the Russians reaching and understanding. with each other over their heads. And I mean, that really would have them in a terrible place. And this article plays to precisely that fear. I don't know whether the blink and crowd understand this,

but it's almost exactly the kind of article that is going to have the Europeans in the greatest possible panic, which is one reason, by the way, that I'm absolutely sure that the Americans would not have shared this with the Europeans in advance, because, of course, had the Europeans seen anything like this, even as a sire op, they would have been absolutely panic-stricken themselves, and they would have said, you know, pleased under no circumstances do this. Yeah. The EU really has been weakened a lot through all of this.

Well, indeed. Well, indeed. I mean, speaking of another guest of the Duran, I mean, Claire Daly did a tremendous speech about Ursula von der Leyen, the unelected person who has led Europe into this hole. And, you know, where she speaks, others will follow. I mean, there'll be an awful lot of people who are in the Parliament chamber who will be perhaps very angry with Claire Daly for saying things like that, but who will secretly also understand that she's making a vote. valid goal. Yeah, very powerful speech from Claire Daly. All right. We will end it there. The durand.

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