The Duran Podcast - Scholz & Macron called Putin expecting sanctions panic, tears. Putin's silence shocked them

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

Scholz & Macron called Putin expecting sanctions panic, tears. Putin's silence shocked them

All right, Alexander, let's discuss a built article, the German publication built. And they revealed that Macron called Schultz, Schultz called Macron, and they decided to exchange thoughts on their individual calls with Putin. And they were very surprised, both of them were very surprised that when they called the Russian president, he didn't mention anything about the sanctions. And they were kind of shocked, upset at the fact that Putin, I don't know, the way I read it was the fact that Putin didn't beg them for mercy. You know, please remove the sanctions, guys, please, please, please. Anyway, you know, the interesting part about this revelation from Bill, if it is true, I don't see why

it isn't true, is it gives you a glimpse into how these European leaders think, what they think of themselves and how they view the world and how they view Russia, not only Russia, maybe how they view other world leaders outside of jungle Joseph Burrell's garden. What are your thoughts on this build article? Well, the first thing to say is I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it is true. Now, Billet is a tabloid. It's, you know, the German equivalent of some of the tabloids we have in Britain. but it's actually pretty well informed and well sourced.

So I'm no doubt at all that this is actually correct information. It is, by the way, stridently pro-Ukraine. And it has reporters on the ground in Ukraine who are also very, very strongly supportive of Ukraine. So I do think they've made this up. I have absolutely no doubt that this is true. That's the first thing to say. The second is that, of course,

the reason that Macron and Schultz are talking to each other and exchanging notes in this way, is because they are becoming increasingly frustrated with the fact that for many, many months now, in fact, for almost

a year now, Putin is not taking their calls. Both Schultz and Macron say they want to speak to Putin. They've discussed this on several occasions. They've made comments about this on several occasions.

The fact is they're making one attempt after another to try to get through to Putin. It turns out, so is the White House. The White House, Biden himself has been trying to call Putin, or at least on one occasion,

and it seems that Putin is just rejecting all calls from Western leaders at this time. And they're getting very frustrated and alarmed about this. and Macron and Schultz had clearly this discussion and they compared notes and shock, horror, what they discovered is all this effort that they've put into

putting the sanctions together, all these huge sanctions packages, all the arguments, all the acrimony, all the enormous costs that they've endured, you know, the loss of the Russian energy, the loss of the Russian market, the problems with the European businesses, all of that has achieved absolutely nothing because whenever they have managed to speak to Putin, he never talks about it. He says, you know, he's not interested or affected

or bothered about the sanctions at all. Now, why should he be? We've just had some more economic data coming up from Russia. Siluana of the finance minister says that Russia, now anticipating economic growth, GDP growth of 2.5% this year. The Russian economy is surging. Manufacturing is expanding at double-digit rates.

Every day we get more news and more factories opening. There's been an uptick in inflation, but that's likely going to come down in a few months. Why would Putin want to discuss the sanctions? And as you absolutely rightly said, these two people and all the other European leaders, the self-appointed, self-declared, self-proclaimed masters of the universe have discovered that they're actually the emperors without clothes. Yeah.

Does this reaction from Putin surprise you? Does it maybe hint at the fact that Putin is, I don't know, it seems like maybe Putin was confident in the Russian economy going into this. I mean, okay, the sanctions war was pretty tough. I mean, they threw everything at Russia. They continue to try and find ways to sanction Russia. But it does kind of reveal that Putin was confident about Russia's position going into this sanctions economic war. And, you know, we talk a lot about the actual front line.

conflict in Ukraine, but probably above the actual conflict that's being fought on the ground, there's this very important, very aggressive economic war that is playing out, but was really played out in the first three months of the special military operation. Absolutely. I think what happened, and I think what this demonstrates yet again, is that Putin is an absolute master of the game of diplomatic poker. I think he, understood, and I think the other people who were, you know, his team understood that if there was any hint of weakness, any sign of nervousness over the sanctions, then the Western leaders would immediately capitalize on that. They'd go around saying that Putin is worried about

the sanctions. They'd mobilise even further for the sanctions. They'd talk to other leaders around the world about the fact that the president of Russia is clearly angry and stressed. nervous about the sanctions. So Putin absolutely correctly took the decision and his team took the decision that he would never bring them up whatsoever. It's the cleverest, strongest thing that he could have done. Instead of arguing about the sanctions, instead of denouncing the sanctions, instead of criticizing the sanctions, he just didn't mention them. And that left the Schultz, Macron, the European leaders, Ossula, you've noticed, by the way, how little we hear of Ursula nowadays.

She's gradually fading from the sea. It has all left them completely at a loss. Now, I think that in the early weeks, Putin was almost certainly confident that in the end, Russia would come through. I mean, all of these public statements at the time suggested that he thought it would come through. But I think he expected that Russia would take a much bigger economic hit than it did. And I think that over time he's become steadily more confident.

And I don't think he's worried that there's going to be an economic implosion or collapse anymore. So I, but I think above all, it showed yet again that the Western, leaders not only underestimated Russia, they underestimated Putin himself. They found themselves completely outplayed by him in these discussions. And they've gone away and they don't know what to do. What does this article tell you about Macron-Schultz and the economic situation in Europe, in the EU? I was reading an article today about how the Netherlands is now officially in recession, Germany in recession. There was an interview with Schultz with Bloomberg yesterday where Schultz said that Germany doesn't have the money for electricity subsidies. Yes.

For businesses and consumers like they had last year. We've talked at length about the problems in France, the problems that Macron is facing. the timing of this article from Bill, given everything that's happening in the European Union. What do you think is going on here? Yeah, it's a further sign of increasing nervousness and panic. And there's a very, very interesting article today this morning in the Financial Times, which is that there's now huge arguments about the European budget. The European Commission has come forward and has demanded an other 86 billion euros

on top of the existing budget because the EU itself is running out of money. I'm talking about the organisation. They're running out of money. There are gaps in the budget starting to appear. And in order to...

You mean the European Union? The European... Yeah, the European Commission. The ECB or... No, no, no, I'm talking, I mean the Commission. So they're asking for a big increase in funding. And they're also... They've also bundled it together.

with aid for Ukraine, 17 billion euros apparently of aid for Ukraine and they're trying to create a situation where Ukraine gets money sent to it over a four-year period and there is no argument about this and there is no agreement because European governments are finding that their own finances now are becoming increasingly strained as the word is. In other words, their deficits are growing.

And this is creating an accumulation of problems. So, Schultz, Macron, they're calling each other, they're saying, how do we get through to Putin? We can't get through to Putin. They say to each other, what is the effect of the sanctions on the Russians? Putin isn't even talking about the sanctions. He's so completely unaffected by the sanctions that he's not even concerned about the sanctions. what is happening to us. Our economies are in recession.

In Germany, we're in at the start, not in fact at the start, we're now well into a de-industrialisation process. We're finding it increasingly difficult to afford things to provide subsidies and support to our own economies, to our own industries, to our own populations. The EU is coming, in hand asking for more money and we're not really in a position to provide that either. So here we are and all of this, we've done all of this and we've achieved nothing.

So that's what they're saying to each other. But do they have a plan B? Do they know how to get out of this mess? No, of course they don't. And we've had the Minister President of Saxony, who's one of the German states, he said, you know, let's at least get an order. stream two, north stream one repaired. Let's see whether we can repair Nord Stream one. After all, you know, if we don't act soon, the corrosion, the sea corrosion will make repairs even to that pipeline unworkable. Of course we can't do that. That would be an impossible thing to do. So we are trapped. We have trapped ourselves and it's not worked with Putin and we don't know what to do. where does this money come from i mean 87 billion that's a number you said right yeah yeah

that's right okay so the EU the commission they come along with this budget they say 87 billion 17 billion is going to go to ukraine we want this money i mean they're they're talking to the individual member states starting with germany if germany's the big one right German, I mean, is this German people, increased taxes, do something, we want this money? I mean, is this what the EU is asking of the member states and of the citizens of each member state? Well, absolutely. Well, ultimately it is because, of course, there's two things that, you know, central banks, well, there's three things that central banks and governments can do. one is classically they raise taxes

but of course raising taxes at a time when your economy is already in recession is not a good idea because of course it supposedly suffocates demand and it pushes your economy deeper into contraction territory so there would be reluctance to do that in Germany and of course the politics of doing that in Germany and in the Netherlands the Germany and the Netherlands are the two countries which apparently are resisting most strongly this EU demand

for more money. Anyway, they, that would be that would not go down well in either of these two countries at this time. I mean, you know, the IFDA, which remember started as a Eurosceptic party, would probably surge in 20,

22%, which is what it is at at the moment, a 30% if you started to go down that road. The other thing you can do is borrow. Because borrowing carries its own risks. in its uh you know there are already france for example it's already very heavily indebted so is italy germany is less so but germany has a constitutional restraint on how much it can it is allowed to borrow

of course you can find ways of getting round that but that's going to create further problems within germany the risk is of course if you borrow in that kind of way then of course you might actually put further upward pressure on interest rates, on the yield curves, on the EU bonds will start rising at a time when there's already a battle. You know, they're already increasing. So borrowing might create more problems rather than fewer problems at this time, given that interest rates are high and likely to go higher still. And then, of course, the other thing you can do is you can do what the Americans do,

which is print money. but the Americans can do that to a great extent because the dollar is still the world's reserve currency. The euro perceptions of it, much more fragile. It might not be an easy thing to do. And again, the German public might not be happy because if euros are simply created through return to QE, there will be complaints in Germany

that ultimately it will be the, the Germans, German taxpayers who have to carry the burden for this. So it's not straightforward. And if you go to that article in the Financial Times, you see that the European leaders are telling the EU, this really can't go on. And there's a quote, one senior EU diplomat from a country that has raised concerns over the amounts being requested.

I'm reading now from the Financial Times. We all want to help Ukraine. There's no reluctance to do what is being asked or even to do more if necessary. But the money is all coming from the same pots. Something has to give. And it's the last words that you really need to think about. Something has to give.

They can't just go on doing this. So he's talking about, you know, going on supporting Ukraine, getting Ukraine even more money. But if you're going to give Ukraine more money, then the implication is that the EU has to start cutting back on other areas. And that might not be an easy thing for the EU to do. And of course, if they start cutting back in areas like the structural funds and other sort of funds, that might not be popular with other people across Europe, in southern Europe as well,

who are big beneficiaries of those kind of funds. So you can see that they are facing a particularly difficult. balancing act at the moment. Yeah, why do I have the feeling that they're going to find a way to come up with this 87 billion and they're going to do exactly what's what you said. They're going to cut back on the structural funds. Who cares about the southern EU states? You know, we have to do this for these Olensky regimes. So that's what they'll tell the southern states. And maybe they'll combine it with pressing for for more money from Germany and the Netherlands.

I have a feeling that at the end of the day, push comes to shove. It's going to be the German and Dutch taxpayers that are going to fund a big portion of this 87 billion. I go back to what Annalina Bearbach said, you know, like nine months ago when she was at that conference, where she said, I don't care what the German voters think or what they want us to do. we're going to do what's best for Ukraine for Project Ukraine I just go back to that statement I think you know

at the end of the day they're just going to tell the German citizen and then the Dutch citizens just pay up just be quiet pay up we're going to take this money and that's how we're going to get

our 87 billion yeah go ahead that's exactly what they've been doing ever since Merkel's time is what Merkel always used to do I mean and of course Schultz even more so I mean the Germans come along

every time They say, no, no, no, no, we can't do this. We can't give more money to the EU. We've got to make economies. We can't have QE. We can't have all of those things. And eventually the Germans always agree. And, well, we see what this is doing to Germany now.

Remember, the reason we got into this mess over Ukraine is because of all of those previous concessions by Germany to this EU monster that Germany has to itself. has itself created, and of which Merkel herself was a part. And that is exactly what is going to happen. I take a more cynical view than you. I think what is eventually going to happen is that we're going to have, obviously the EU will get his money. Obviously, Ukraine is going to get its money. I think there won't be any cutback on the structural funds either, not in any significant way, because doing that will undermine the coalition behind the EU and it will weaken potential EU influence in all kinds of, you know,

the countries which might otherwise turn against it. So I think that one way or the other, the Germans will pay and the Dutch and the Swedes and the Finns and all of those people who always say that they won't pay. They will pay. they will pay to keep this runaway train trundling along, and they will go on doing it until the train eventually crashes, which one day, of course, it will.

In the meantime, Putin, who won't take their calls and why would he want to take their calls? He's just had very productive telephone calls with people like Narendra Modi. He got a long call with Narendra Modi. he's going to meet Erdogan in Moscow in September. He's talking to the people who really matter to him. He's going to China in October.

Why should he waste his time talking to Macron, Schultz, and all of those sort of people, when they have absolutely nothing to say to him? Why waste his time at the G20? Why waste his time at the G20? Indeed. Why waste his time at the G20? When for the Russians, and not just the Russians, Chinese, the Indians, the Brazilians, all of those countries,

the place that is really matters now is the bricks. The expanded bricks, which is starting to look like, not just a rival to the G7, but the real G20, where the big decisions are going to be made with the Saudis there, the Egyptians there, probably before long the Turks will want to join. They're all going to be there. So why waste time with the G20 when you have the BRICS? And who is going to be chairing the BRICS next year and hosting them Kazan in Russia,

Vladimir Putin, who is now assigned the job of BRICS chair? He won't have the Europeans, he won't have wasted his time, avoiding dodging meetings with Schultz and Macron, end. God help us, Rishi Sunak, and whoever is the president next year of the United States, presumably Biden still, or perhaps Kamala Harris. You may have to dodge meetings with them. You can have productive discussions with all of these people in Kazan. And of course, Narendra Modi and Putin have just had a very warm, friendly conversation with each other.

Yeah, one final question to wrap up the video. Are we past the point? point where, let's go back to the phone call from Bill. Macron, Schultz, they call Putin. They expect that Putin is going to beg for mercy. That's what they think is going to happen. Doesn't happen. Doesn't even talk about the sanctions. Are we past the point where Schultz or Macron calls up Putin and they beg Russia for mercy?

They say, please, let's end Project Ukraine. Let's wind this thing down. Let's get Nord Stream 1 back on track. Let's get Nord Stream 2 back on track. Let's start rolling back the sanctions somehow in the next five or 10 years. I don't know. Let's start to mend fences. Are we past that point?

Yes. Yes. I think perhaps they're hoping that they can actually find some way of patching things up with the Russians in some form. I mean, you know, we've talked about this. I've talked about this extensively on my channel about, in the fact that there's a kind of diplomatic outreach from the United States, some people in the United States going on. The point people always forget, whenever I discuss this, is that I always make the point that the Russians are showing no interest in it. And we've had more comments about this now from Lavrov, the Russian,

foreign minister and he says, how can we trust the Germans of the French? Macron, Lavrov actually said this. Macron has actually contacted the Russians or tried to contact the Russians and has said that he wants to act as a mediator between Russia and Ukraine. And the Russians have said, we can't accept you as a mediator. Firstly, what kind of a mediator can you be when you, you are supplying weapons all the time to Ukraine. That already immediately disqualifies you from being a possible mediator.

But secondly, France has been a mediator before. They were one of the countries that were involved in Minsk too. Germany and France, Merkel and Hollande, their signatures are there on that document. And they've now admitted that they sat back and let Ukraine go, you know, completely undermine, tear up Minsk too and by itself time to rearm. So given that history, there is absolutely no way that the Russians are going to trust France or Germany again. And I think that's true whilst Scholz and Macron are there.

and I think it's true for always. I don't think even if we have an IFDA government in Germany or a Le Pen presidency in France, that the Russians will be looking to the French or the Germans to conduct mediation any further. If the IFDA, you know, might happen, become the government in Germany, most unlikely, but it's possible. If Le Pen becomes president of France, more likely,

but we'll have to see. If that happens, yes, the Russians and the Germans and the French will make up in some way. But I think the Russians will always tell the French and the Germans, we're not having anything to do with you in relation to the issue of Ukraine.

We can't trust you on that any further. And of course, when it comes to Schultz and Macron, I mean, even if, Macron Shorts come along and say, you know, we're prepared to surrender unconditionally, which, of course, they never will. Even then, I don't think the Russians will trust them. Yeah, all right. Polite neighbors, but nothing more than that.

Nothing more than that, yeah. Okay. The durand.com. We are on Rumble odysseepidt, shoot, telegram. And Rock Finn, go to the Duran shop, 10% off, use the code. Good Day. And check us out on Twitter as well. Take care.