The Duran Podcast - Supercharging SCO and BRICS integration

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Supercharging SCO and BRICS integration

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the SCO and the results of the first day of meetings at the SCO. Xi Jinping meeting Modi, Putin meeting Paschignan, Modi, Xi Jinping, Edouan as well. What are your thoughts on everything that has happened at the SCO so far? Well, so far, we've not had a huge amount of news about specific agreements, but clearly they're working on all kinds of ideas and they're all talking to each other and there's talk that the Chinese now want to create yet another bank apparently that's going to bring together the SEO states. What I think we can see, and this is what I want to say about the SEO, the SEO started as a kind of loose, very loose, very low, loose talking shop, a place which various countries, China, Russia, Central Asian states, met and discussed security issues and specifically anti-terrorism issues. And now it's becoming instead a venue for meetings of top leaders.

So Putin is there. Xi Jinping obviously is there because he's hosting. Modi is there. Erdogan is there. Parhingya and somewhat surprisingly has turned up. Others are there too, the Prime Minister of Vietnam. All sorts of imported people are there. And it's starting to integrate together with the bricks.

So you have the bricks which does the trading and finance issues. You then have the SEO, which is a more. kind of political security type structure. By the way, I forgot to mention Bezoschkan, the Iranian president, is there too. So, you know, you have all of these people, but it's the same group of people. It seems that Lula himself, the president of Brazil, is not actually in Tianjin, in, at the SEO, but exactly as we anticipated, he is now calling for an emergency bricks, to take place and it's quite likely that we will have that happen in a few weeks time before

the end of the year. So there'll be yet another meeting and it's the same people who are going to all of these different meetings and they're interacting with each other and they're doing business. Now, this is what makes it very different from meetings that take place in Europe and with European leaders meeting with each other or with European leaders meeting with American leaders. Because when these leaders come together, they don't just come with their political and military advisors. Usually there's trains of business people involved. They all meet with each other as well. Economic and issues are discussed. Business-related issues. are discussed. Putin has brought, for example, a huge delegation with him. Again, when he goes

to China, he usually brings most of the economics ministers at the Russian government, but also lots of business people, Gazprom, non-Rosneft, Rosstek, the major banks. They're all there. They're all meeting with the Chinese. They're all meeting with the Indians as well. They're all meeting with the Turks. And they're talking economics and they're doing business. I mean, they're actually agreeing business deals with each other. So what these meetings are, each one takes the process of creating a kind of multipolar system, a further step forward.

So you had Kazan last year. the BRICS meeting, which pioneered ideas about payment systems. Kazan was mostly about payment systems. Then you had the meeting in Rio, which was shared by Lula, which is clearly a preparatory meeting. It's now becoming increasingly, this is a preparatory meeting to the meeting that is taking place now. Then you have Modi, Putin and C, turning up at this meeting together

with all their top economics people. They're now talking about banks. This is outside the remit of the SCO, exactly, which is supposed to be a security issue. So they're doing BRICS business as well, but they're taking that a step forward. There's also, as I said, Lula is saying, going to be another BRICS meeting probably this year

to address more fully the tariff issues that the United States is bringing up. And at the same time, inevitably, because the SEO is a security organization, which has now gone way beyond its original remit to just talk about terrorism and such things, it's now starting to develop a structure. It's got a secretariat. It's got, in other words, some kind of a bureaucracy.

There are discussions about joint technology projects. These already exist between China and Russia and between Russia and India. But we're now starting to look at joint technology projects, which could involve everyone and which have military applications. So I don't want to talk about a block being set up here, because this isn't what these leaders, want to say, but you can see that they're busy now, creating step by step, a whole system of international relations that bypasses the West. And that's what this meeting is.

That's exactly what they're doing, a system to bypass, to push back against the collective West. I mean, isn't that what this is all about? Exactly. That is exactly. To bypass sanctions and the weaponization of the dollar and the weaponization of collective West institutions, tariffs, all of these things. That's what the SEO and BRICS is becoming. Yes, yes. These two institutions, Bricks and the SCO, are starting to converge.

They're starting to become part of the same overall structure. And they're always at pains to say that this is not an anti-Western structure. And it's not an alliance against the West, exactly, but it is an alliance, in effect, to protect all of these countries from the West. And that's perhaps how one should look at it. I was going to say the exact same thing. I was going to say to protect against the actions of the West. Yes.

It's not about going up in the West. against the West, per se. But what it's about is protection against everything that the West is doing. But at the end of the day, what you're going to get is a multipolar world and the parallel system, a new system of doing things, of doing business, of getting loans, of making payments, of trade, maybe even of security, military issues. I mean, maybe that's going to be coming as well. Yes.

I mean, that's what you're getting here. Well, that is exactly what you're getting here. That is exactly what we're starting to see. So security issues, countries that work together, working together to agree security issues with each other, again, to protect each other and to protect each other from all kinds of things, not just direct open military threats, like, say, the 12-day war, which we saw, in which the Israel and the United States conducted an attack against Iran, but also sharing information and providing intelligence to deal with color revolution threats.

For example, that kind of thing is going on all the time. Now, the thing to say is that India, which I think the Americans had imagined might be the weak link in the chain, because India has historically difficult relations with China. I think to American astonishment and dismay, and not just American, but European as well, elected to choose to go ahead with this. They continue to buy Russian oil. They're stepping up, they're buying of Russian oil.

Modi has just gone to Tianzin. He's had a meeting there with Putin. He's invited Putin to visit India in December. Modi and Putin have each referred to each other over the course of their meetings and have published statements in which they referred to each other as their good friend. Modi did the same thing as Putin did in Alaska. Putin was agreed to be driven by Trump in. Trump's presidential limousine. Modi in Tianzine agreed to be driven by Putin, in Putin's presidential

limousine. And Modi under pressure from the United States, because all of these tariffs have now been imposed on India by the United States, receives a letter from Xi Jinping. We don't know exactly what the text of that letter is and apparently there have been further discussions but the chinese are saying apparently to the indians look we're prepared to offer you economic assistance in order to mitigate the effect of these tariffs so you could see how everything is sort of coming together and is being woven together in ways that i i think only now are people in the west fully under understanding this. In fairness to Trump, he's understood that Bricks is serious. I think much earlier than most American politicians did. But I think it was India's decision to say no about the oil sanctions,

the oil tariffs, and to have Modi attend this meeting and to develop closer relations with the Russians and the Chinese, that probably is the single event that has made people in the West, in the United States especially, but also in Europe, finally understand that this is for real. I'll push back a little bit on that on what you said. Alexander, I want to hear your thoughts. what do you say to the argument, and this is my argument to you with Trump in India, that Trump, he created this. He created this, this tighter unification of bricks and the SEO. He's created this, I guess you could call it a reproshment between China and India. I mean, you could call it that, right? This dialogue, this new atmosphere, this new spirit of, of, this new spirit of, of, you know, of good relations between India and China. Trump did this. His team, Trump, his team is advisors.

I think of Navarro. I think of Lindsay Graham. They're the ones that have that have trashed India. Trump trashed India. He said their economy was a zombie economy or a dead. I forgot what he called India's economy in a true social post. He has Navarro going on Fox News daily, trashing India. I mean, now Navarro is trying to kiss up to Modi.

I saw his Fox News interview the other day. trying to kiss up to Modi and saying India is so great and Modi is so great. Why are you guys aligning with Putin and Russia? I don't understand it. But anyway, Navarro screwed up. Lindsay Graham was whispering in Trump's ear, 500% bone crushing sanctions on India and China. But I mean, they've been trashing India from the minute Trump got into office. And you know, the funny thing is that Trump had a very good relationship with Modi and with India, a very good relationship. And in the span of six months, they have completely trashed it because they acted like mafioso dimwits. Yes.

They really did. This is the dumbest move. One of the dumbest moves in geopolitics, Trump always trashes Biden for bringing China and Russia together. Well, you know, President Trump, you have brought India and China closer together and you've brought India, China, and Russia closer together. This was such an own goal from the Trump administration. and you can't blame India.

No. You cannot blame India because they realized, you know what, we had good relations with Trump, but all of a sudden it's 50% tariffs. All of a sudden, he's saying that he's the one that brokered peace between Pakistan and us during the conflict. You know, he completely embarrassed, humiliated, and trashed Modi and the people of India. That's the truth from a position where the people of India and Modi actually liked Trump. That's where they started.

And in six months, he's now, he's brought together these three powers. I mean, he's really brought them together now. This was an incredible long goal from the Trump administration. Absolutely. That's the way I see it. I want to see here. No, I don't disagree with any point you've just made. I mean, you said you're pushing back, but actually, you're not.

Can I just explain this? I mean, first of all, The moves towards developing a warmer relationship between India and China actually predate Trump. I mean, they began in Kazan. Putin got Modi and C, both to come to the BRIC summit in Kazan in October of last year. The two had a meeting. It was a friendly meeting. They agreed to work together to sort out issues on the border.

Progress was being made. It was all very slow, but it was. Things were starting to come together and we could see a process beginning to develop. And then, of course, what happens is exactly what you described, because Trump then comes in. He's the new president. He has this excellent meeting with Modi in the United States and the White House. I think it was in February. They are the best of friends.

They'd been the best of friends during Trump's first term. I think Modi was the first visit. He was the first visit. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, the two men gave every appearance of really liking each other. Trump, during his first term, had a very successful visit to India. Everything seemed to be very well. And then, of course, all the whisperers came along.

Lindsay Graham, the bone crushing sanctions. We're going to impose tariffs on oil exported by Russia. That will bring the Russians to heal. And of course, we also got all the whistle. and not just the whisperers, because Trump himself is concerned about this, talking about bricks, it's out to destroy the dollar and do all of that, we need to, we need to stop bricks. So the calculation obviously was, well, the Indians really don't get on with the Chinese so very well. I do think it was registered that Modi and C had, you know, a good meeting in Kazan.

So the Indians don't really like the Chinese. They really distrust the Chinese. And, well, what we'll do is we will create trouble between India and Russia by imposing these tariffs on India for buying Russian oil. And the Indians will blame the Russians for this because the Russians aren't agreeing to a ceasefire. And they won't obviously want to break with us. And as for India getting closer to China, well, that is inconceivable because we know how bad the relationship between China and India really is and how these two countries actually hate each other and how India is really on our side. So they come up with this plan to impose these tariffs and they say to themselves that this is going to create problems. It's going to create problems between India and Russia, and it's going to make the Indians reconsider the whole stance towards bricks.

And then you're going to start to see bricks come down. And then, of course, exactly the opposite happened in exactly the way that you said. The Indians were not prepared to give up Russian oil. They were not prepared to sacrifice their entire foreign policy for American and European obsession. about Ukraine. They were not prepared to subordinate themselves in that kind of way. And fundamentally, and ultimately, and this is a key point, they need cheap oil. Now, we've discussed this in program after program after program, but just to say again, India needs cheap oil because it has a huge economy, large numbers are still very poor people, many of them still working on the land. They are

immediately affected if the price of oil rises. So India predictably said no. And instead of the Americans backing off and understanding that, they threw a tantrum. Trump started to talk about, as you said, India being this dead economy, which is unbelievably. It's a rude thing to say as well as an untrue thing to say, but all. also a very rude thing to say. Peter Navarro, as you rightly say, is unleashed, writes articles.

He doesn't just appear on Fox. He writes articles in the Financial Times. Unbelievably aggressive and rude about India. And, of course, ultimately the result was that the Indians themselves started to get extremely angry. If you read the Indian media, by the way, which I do. Now, it's difficult to understate. how angry the Indians are.

And of course, the result is that Modi is not only just going to Tianjin, but this whole process of integration, Brick's integration, and SEO integration and creation of multipolarity has achieved an enormous boost and a quiet progress of rapprochement between India and China, or detente maybe between India and China, India and China, that had started in Kazan and was moving forwards, you know, bit by bit slowly, has suddenly been supercharged. It's a bit supercharged, exactly.

So, I mean, you're absolutely right. It's a massive, massive own goal. Again, it's a little surprising. I mean, if these people took the trouble to read the Indian media or to watch Indian television, Indian television is very accessible nowadays. They're all over the place. I mean, they're all over the internet. So it's not difficult.

I mean, you can listen. You'll see what a proud country India is, how strong feeling there is, the strong relationship and the strong feelings Indians have about their relationship with Russia, beyond which they see the relationship with Russia as crucially important important to them for all kinds of reasons which, you know, maybe are outside the scope of this programme, you would have known this is the most foolish thing you could possibly have done. I mean, you went against the Indians. In a way, that was most calculated to anger and provoke them.

And of course, they can absorb the blow. Their economy is already enormous. Trade with the United States is important. But he's not that important. And as Xi Jinping is pointing out, China and the other bricks can make up the difference anyway. You know, I think the Trump administration, they have this belief that every country is like the countries of Europe.

Yes. I like the countries of the EU. They will happily destroy their own economy. They will happily destroy their own citizens and the well-being of their own citizens in order to do business with the United States. They have this belief that every country is going to act like the Europeans, like Ursula, in negotiations. And he's dead wrong about this.

He is dead wrong about this. That was the bet that he made with India. He thought that Modi was just going to roll over like Ursula and start handing the United States, $750 billion and $600 billion and ditch Russia and ditch China and ditch bricks. Because the United States is the hegemon and it's the most important country in the world and I'll destroy my entire country, all the relationships I have, all the allies that we've made, all the trade that we've got going on with the rest of the world, just so we can have the honor of trading with the United States. It's not how the world works. The EU are vassals. And Trump has not understood

I mean, he's understood that the EU are vassals, but just because the EU are vassals, doesn't mean the rest of the world are vassals. There are countries in the world that are sovereign. Exactly. A lot of countries in the world that are sovereign. Why Alexander is it so difficult for Trump and his team, including Lutnik, by the way, Lutnik also said some very dumb stuff about India as well. Why is it so hard for them to understand that India needs the oil?

Well, indeed, I don't know. I don't know, but I suspect one of the fun... I mean, I listen to your explanations of it. It's not rocket science. I mean, it's very easy to understand why they need the oil. Yes. Well, I suspect the fundamental reason is because all of these people, to the extent that they interact more with other countries,

the countries they most interact with are the Europeans. And I suspect, too, because of the long history, of very close relations between the United States and Europe, the Americans still tend to think as the Europeans are somehow first-tier countries and all of the other countries as second or third-tier countries

and they can't quite get their minds around the fan that these are not second or third-tier countries in the same way anymore. So they say to themselves and if the Europeans capitulate if big, strong countries

like Germany and France and Britain do as we tell them, how is it possible that India, which has all these difficult problems with China and all of that, won't capitulate also. So I think this is the problem. I don't think they have, frankly, caught up with the realities of the changes in the world. And you're talking about understanding the internal realities in India,

the economic ones, the commercial ones, the political ones, the commitment India has to sovereignty, which is extremely strong, by the way, and must not be understated. Remember, this is a country that was subordinated to the British for hundreds of years and which had to fight for its independence. And it's not going to throw that independence away. I don't think any of these people, Navarro Lutnik, any of them, Trump, of course. I don't think any of them have taken the trouble to sit down.

and think and work it out at all in the way that they should do. I suspect the one exception again is the vice president, J.D. Vance, whose wife, I believe, is of Indian extraction, and who recently visited India, and who seems to have a much deeper and better understanding of the country than these other officials too. No, the problem is that Trump continues to listen to the other officials. Well, indeed, yeah.

That's the big problem with not only with India, but with Ukraine with everything. That's the problem. Well, it is absolutely. And of course, in the case of Navarro, I mean, they have a very, very long history with each other. I mean, Navarro was there in Trump's first administration. I mean, he's one of the very few people from the first administration

who have been carried over to the second. So he's got a very, very long history with Navarro and he clearly trusts him. Yeah, well, I'd never do that Navarro was an expert on indigenous geopolitics. So I don't know why. I don't know why he's the one that's leading the charge. Yes. Anyway, okay, let's go back to the SEO.

There has been a declaration, the Tianzine Declaration that has been published. They mention Iran. They mentioned Gaza. A two-state solution. They mentioned trade and the sovereignty of the countries in the SCO, all of these things in the declaration. But no Ukraine. No. Why do you think?

Well, because they don't want to discuss Ukraine because they don't want to get drawn into a issue where it is particularly important to one country, which is, of course, Russia. So we talk about Ukraine a little now. Putin said that he's going to come to Tianzin. He's going to brief all the various leaders, Modi, C, all of the others, about his interaction. actions with Trump. And interestingly, again, he said that he'd come to some kind of understandings with Trump in Alaska. And this has been a very complex topic because in his press conference in Alaska, Putin said then that he and Trump had come to some understandings.

And people misunderstood that and mistranslated that to mean agreements. But clearly, the Russians believe that they have some kind of understanding with Trump, which I think goes beyond Ukraine and which touches on the major security issues in Europe. And this is clearly something that the Americans and the Russians, Trump and Putin, basically accepted should not be talked about publicly. at this time and for that reason I think the Russians who briefed the various states, the SEO

states said, look this is what happened in Alaska but let's keep this to ourselves because we've told the Americans that we're not going to talk about it openly. So I think this is why the whole topic of a Ukraine was kept off the table

out of the statement. It works to the Russian advantage because it gives the Russians a free hand in Ukraine. It doesn't mean it means that they don't have to talk about, you know, wanting a negotiated outcome or a ceasefire or anything of that kind of the statement. It gives the Russians the ability to decide for themselves when and what they do, they're not beholden to the others. So that's consistent with the pattern of the SEO.

But it also means that they don't touch on publicly on topics, which I think the Russians and the Americans for the moment want to treat as confidential. Now, I wanted to say something about this because notice that Tulsi Gabbat, obviously acting on Trump's instructions, has also said that, has also given a direction, that intelligence on Russian and American discussions will not be shared with the other five eyes in states. So that also points to some agreement to keep something that was discussed in Alaska confidential. And that does seem to me to relate to the general security system in Europe.

The trouble is, I think the Russians perhaps are over expecting something to come from this. And I don't think anything myself will. Because even if the Americans have said to the Russians, well, let's actually talk about the general security situation in Europe. Let's start looking at ways to sort out security that go beyond NATO. And Putin, during the course of this meeting in Tianzine, actually brought all that up. He said, you know, there's root causes, there's NATO expansion. The principle must be that there should never be threats to any country. There should be equal security in Europe for all.

This has been the longstanding Russian position going all the way back to basically the fall of the Soviet Union. and they say they've got already agreements about that and of course the two treaties that they proposed in December 2021. We're all about taking that forward. Anyway, the Russians may think that the Americans are prepared to talk about all of this. But I personally don't believe that the Americans really are. I don't think the Americans want to talk about this actually. And I think that Trump perhaps didn't, again,

fully understand how seriously the Russians take this topic. And I think the Russians may think that there were more commitments from the Americans to move forward with this issue than there actually have been. But anyway, this is the topic of the understandings. Notice we're talking about understandings. We are not talking about agreements. And on the issue of the conflict in Ukraine itself, which is, obviously part of this issue, but this issue goes beyond Ukraine.

Well, as we've seen, with every revelation, every Russian statement, it becomes increasingly clear that on the actual topic of a settlement of the conflict in Ukraine, the Russians haven't moved beyond 14th June 24, Istanbul Plus, by a single inch. So something has been discussed between the Americans and the Russians. Lavrov hinted that it was the general security architecture in Europe. There appears to be an agreement to try and keep it confidential. There's perhaps an agreement to discuss arms control in connection with all of this. But I'm afraid that when it really comes down to it, we will see all of this fade away and that's we're going to be disappointed or the Russians are going to be

disappointed by the results. But this is at the moment one of the reasons why, as I said, this whole issue is being kept out of public statements both in Tianzine and why the Americans are not sharing intelligence about it. Yeah. Isn't it interesting that Putin is not running to the SCO or to bricks and begging for for help while the exact opposite is happening with Zolensky and Ukraine? I mean, you know, the Europeans are having meetings just dedicated to Ukraine and they're negotiating security guarantees and negotiating troops and more money to Zelensky and more weapons

to Zelensky. That's all they talk about, even though the, the, The European economies are pretty much half of them are heading towards the IMF for a bailout. I'm exaggerating there. But still, France, the UK, Germany is in terrible shape. But who cares? Who cares about our economies? Who cares about domestic issues?

We've got to come together so we can help Zelensky. And Zelensky is just begging 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Putin's the exact opposite. Putin goes to the SCO, to the bricks. All of these countries have very deep pockets. None of them are running to the IMF. No. None of them are in critical, you know, desperate economic trouble.

And he's like, we don't need to talk about Ukraine because I've got it all under control. That's the message that I'm getting from Putin. That's, I mean, you said in a few words what basically I was explaining and rather more. But you're absolute, that's exactly what Putin said. We don't need to talk about Ukraine. We don't necessarily don't need to make any public statements about it because I have it under control. And you're absolutely right. He comes across.

He's extremely dignified, as we all see. He comes fully as the equal to all of the others. He's certainly not coming with a begging bowl. I don't want money. I don't want billions. I don't want your help. I'm able to handle this all by myself. Leave me.

I can deal with the Ukrainians. I can deal with the Americans. I'm already dealing with the Americans. And it is, as you absolutely rightly say, an extraordinary contrast to the way Zelenskyy behaves. That's exactly what you want in a partner, though. Isn't it, Alexander? Well, of course it is.

well of course it is that is exactly what's exactly what you should want in a partner i think trump by the way prefers it i mean you could see when he met when he actually met Putin in alaska that he seemed happy and relaxed in a way that he never is when Zelensky's around i mean either he's angry as he was in february or he puts on these buffoonish performances as he did last month. But I mean, you know, it is exactly what you want in a partner. But I just wanted to say about the Europeans, you are absolutely right. They do seem to want a partner like Zelensky. I mean, they're holding another meeting this week, apparently. They want Zelensky. I mean, Zelensky will obviously be there. They want Trump himself to come along as well. I mean, I just

cannot keep up with a number of meetings they're all having about these issues, always talking about the same topics, always going into fantastic detail about these plans for European peacekeepers, for buffer zones, for lines of control, for all of this kind of thing. As you rightly say, even as their economies fall to pieces around them. I mean, it is quite incredible. It's, I just don't even have words to describe how I think and feel about this. You see the contrast with Putin, but not just with Putin, with all of the other leaders in Tienzi, meeting in this calm way.

They're obviously all happy to be meeting each other. They manage to do business with each other. Even Putin and Erdogan have a successful meeting with each other. And there's no begging or pleading or anything of that kind with each other. I noticed, by the way, out of that meeting, the Putin had one meeting that it came out that Russian tourists are not only flocking back to Turkey, but that they are, again, the largest number of tourists who are going to Turkey. You're telling us as Greeks and Cypriots.

It hurts us. Oh, no. There you go. Well, there you go. But clearly all the payment systems, the issues of the Mierkart, and all of that have been sorted out somehow. I mean, you know, that's again another topic for another day. But the point is, the contrast between these fevered meetings that happen in Europe

on a weekly basis now and, you know, this kind of substantive meeting that's happening in China is extraordinary. It is darkness and light. I mean, I have no words to describe what's going on in Europe today. It's like, you know, they're running around in circles, talking constantly about the same thing. And doing so in a mood of anger and hysteria. And as always often, as sometimes happens when people are angry and hysterical,

in a kind of state of euphoria as well from time to time. It's very weird. It's very strange. And of course, Starma is the people of Britain, you know, say, never hear Keir. and that's been court said about him by people within his own party. In Germany, they're calling Matt's the foreign policy chancellor. They're wrong, actually. It's actually foreign policy.

It's running after Zelensky all the time and giving it what he wants. That's what it really amounts to. Yeah. The Europeans are angry children. They're angry children. They're angry at Putin. They're obsessed. with Zelensky.

If I was managing these people, I would fire all of them because they're keeping busy doing nothing. I mean, it's clear as day. Any manager knows this. These are people that are pretending to be very busy and they're having all these meetings and coming up with all these plans,

but it's of no use. They're just keeping busy with this fictitious scheming that they're doing. Yes. activity instead of activity. That's all it is. It is action. It is activity.

The SEO in BRICS is results driven. And you can see they're taking things step by step, but they're going somewhere. The Europeans are going nowhere. They're talking about stuff that will never happen. Exactly. We'll never happen. You're not going to put troops in Ukraine. Russia said it a million freaking times.

As far as the United States getting involved as security guarantees, even Trump in an interview with the Daily Caller said, maybe we'll provide a plane or two. I mean, that was Trump security guarantee. Maybe we'll have a plane flying around. The Europeans just don't get it. But it goes back to a previous video that we did, that this is probably a distraction for the Europeans.

They don't want to deal with the issues back home. So, I mean, this is on purpose. Absolutely. But of course, you need people who aren't dealing with the situation. Anyway, carry on. Well, yeah, you're right. And the people of these countries know this. They see this.

That's why they're calling. Kirstam or what they're calling him. That's where they're calling merch with they're calling. But they don't care. They don't care what the people think of them. Anyway, I mean, if Trump shows up to this meeting, that would be the dumbest thing to do is to show up in Paris for this meeting, which I think is going to be on the 4th of September. It's basically Trump siding with the losers. Why would you want to do that if you're the United States? Shouldn't the United States have been in China? You took the very words out of my mouth because that's exactly what I think. I mean, this is so obvious now. Apparently, apparently Putin has tried to explain this to Wickoff. Why are you wasting all your time with these Europeans who are, you know, going around the begging bowl on Zeletsky's behalf and giving him whatever he wants and are wasting their time

and their economies are going to pieces? You are like us. You have a big, you're a sovereign. You are a sovereign state. We are sovereign states. You have a big global economy. We have big global economies. We want to trade and we want to move forward and trade with each other.

You obviously want to be part of a global trading system as well. We're dynamic economists. In many ways, yours is two. So aren't we far more now? natural partners than these fools in Europe who you call your allies. Why can't you see this? No, I know. I mean, I'm not focusing on Trump.

I'm saying the whole administration. Why can't they see what is so obvious? Yeah. You said this before in older and earlier programs that we've done, going back actually years. Europe is not an asset for the United States. It is a liability. It is absorbing. It is a weight that is pulling America down.

Yes, all right. Ucilla agrees to send $1.3 trillion dollars to you. Does anybody honestly think that's going to happen? They've done an incredibly unbalanced tariff agreement with the United States. Does anybody really believe that the United States is going to benefit from that, given that we're talking about economies that are going down anyway? Why do the Americans waste their time with a Europe that is so exhausted and so bankrupt, not just economically, but intellectually as well?

That conversation needs to take place in the United States. One day perhaps it will. The neocons who, of course, have a completely different perspective on international affairs and for whom Europe remains, you know, the key to everything, of course, they will resist this every inch of the way. But perhaps a younger generation of American leaders, when I say younger one, I mean I don't mean one that, you know, we have to wait for, you know, 10, 20 years, maybe five years. A younger generation of American leaders, more hard-nosed, maybe less sentimental about Europe, less connected to Europe than, their fathers and grandfathers and grandparents were because of the second world, the second and first world wars and the Cold War, maybe they will see this and they will understand

that it's time for the United States to cut the legs and to start in its own interests, taking a different course. But that, I'm afraid, is not where we are today. Yeah. Just to wrap up the video, Trump is always talking about the US winning and the US is winning, the real way that the US wins is if they do what you just said. Yeah. Yes. Start going with the winners. Absolutely. And of course, and of course, and nobody should be alarmed by what I'm about to say. Now, if the United States were to join and participate in all of this, all of these structures, it could also shape them. It would be able to shape them to some extent in its own interests. I mean, dollar supremacy, the reserve currency status of the dollar is going to end eventually anyway.

So then will need to be future payment systems, which will be outside the dollar system in the future in the future at some point anyway too. would it not be better for the United States to be involved in their creation than have to accept them ready made at some point in the future when they will have been shaped by other parties, not the United States? Just so. All right, we will end the video there. The duran.com. We are an X and Rumble and Telegram.

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