The Duran Podcast - Trump Faces Removal Risk if Blue Tsunami Hits w/ Rich Baris

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

Trump Faces Removal Risk if Blue Tsunami Hits w/ Rich Baris

All right, Alexander, we are here with the one and only, the People's Pundit, Mr. Rich Barris. Rich, it is great to have you on the Duran, I believe, for the first time. So please let everybody know where they can follow your work and also tell us about your new book as well. Well, first of all, to both of you, thanks for having me on. It is the first time I've been on. And, of course, I'm a huge fan of the show. Love you guys. So I really appreciate it.

It's an honor to be here. And they can follow me anywhere, Alex, at People's underscore, Pundin on X on Instagram. Everywhere else is basically at People's Pundit. And of course, the best place is always is locals, peoplespundant dot locals.com. Yeah, the new book is Burn It Down and, you know, I'd love to get into it, of course. But we're watching it play out right now, guys, in real time. Some of the events because of the decisions of Trump administration made accelerated the

thesis, but it was going to happen regardless. All right. I will have all those links. in the description box down below and as a pinned comment as well. I will also have the link for the book as well. We recommend that everybody purchase that book, burn it down. And Alexander, let's...

Well, indeed, and it is a huge, it is a huge pleasure and a huge honor to have Rich Baris here on this program. Alex and I met him, I should say, in Chattanooga, at the 1776 Convention that we went to. I don't think anybody would argue that the presentation that Rich made there was a fantastic one that held the audience. And of course, it points to a very, very serious issue in America today. Now, all my life, when I have been following political events in the West, everywhere in the West, obviously opinion polls polling has been central to understanding of what is going on and of what opinion is

and polling is an indispensable part of democracy i think people do need to understand that if we don't have polling then people don't know what people are thinking if people don't know what people are thinking that affects what governments do and it is indispensable and it is not surprising that it developed in its modern form in the United States, which, to be absolutely clear, was far ahead of Europe in developing democratic institutions altogether. And we've all heard of people like Gallup and Gallup polls and all of that. And for most of my life, I have assumed that polls were rock solid. Then I began to have my doubts, when heard occasional jokes about this,

But I always said to myself, well, bad things may happen on the margins, but overall, we can still rely on them, at least to some extent, to a great extent. And then in 2016, during the election, I read in the American media reports about all of the leaked documents, the leaked emails that had been circulating around Hillary Clinton's campaign. and lo and behold, I learned about pressure that had been exerted by the Clinton campaign to actually change the results of opinion polls. And apparently this was discussed as if something, it was something perfectly normal, entirely part of what you would expect in politics today.

And I would say straight away, I had a sense of nausea when I read it. It was just unbelievable to me that such a thing. could be happening. It's like debasing your currency, debasing your opinion polls. I mean, it goes directly to the heart of democracy. Well, there is one voice that has been speaking out against this practice and doing so with indomitable courage, who's been writing about it, he's been talking about it, and whose polls you can rely on. And it is Rich Barris, and he is his, and he's going to talk to us about it. So, Rich, you've written a book.

I can see it there. Do you want to tell us a bit about this book? Tell us when it's coming out. Give us some taster of what's in it. And Alexander, thanks for saying that because you were there in Chattanooga. You heard the presentation. And, you know, I'm a believer in Gallup. You know, I'm a believer in his vision.

As the country gets bigger, it's the only way that representative government can continue to work. Otherwise, how can your constituents know that you hear them and vice versa? And without that, then we're all just running for the stock jobbers, as the founders call them, you know, and the lobbies are in charge. And the public pollster is the lobby for the American voter who doesn't have any interest or influence on D.C., on Capitol Hill, on K Street. And the minute you pervert that industry, this all goes away. And George Gallup understood that. He knew that. Unfortunately, that is exactly what's happening in the industry.

But it's a good thing. You know, the come election day, it's the only way you can tell whether we're really doing a good job or not is the vote, which is why it's a tragedy. Gallup does not do horse race polling anymore because it's his namesake. And that's how he himself used to say, this is how you can tell. I'm telling the truth about everything else is because I'll get the vote right. And he had very few misses. going to miss sometimes, but very few. And trends matter. And I think the book, Burn It Down, which is out now, by the way, it just came out last week. Obviously, all authors try to push as many

pre-orders as possible, but immediately a hardcover dropped, which is a very good sign. It means it's selling. So that's, and I'm glad, obviously, the op-ed in real clear politics last week was trending on extra like two days, and I got a ton of calls over it. It's stunning to me. I wish I had gotten this book out sooner. I wish I had written it quicker, but anyone who's ever written a book knows how this goes. You have certain dates. You know, the publisher, you have to meet certain times, deadlines. And there's a process, and you just can't speed up that process and not have the work get sloppy along the way. So it's unfortunate. But we're watching again, this play out because those trends, and there's so much of it in the book, a lot of it's not even reported. We did it. We have data

from a decade plus going back to discuss. And the central thesis, which I'll just say right now, is that we're not going back. It's either MAGA or Mendani, because there's a generational shift that's happening. It's already happening. It's not stoppable. Okay?

I mean, these younger generations are very different than the previous generations. And the misnomer's or the, I mean, it's really false dogmas you hear. Churchill once said when voters, If you're not a liberal when you're young, you don't have a heart. If you're not a conservative when you get older, you don't have a brain. That's not really true.

And this generation, there are milestones along the way in your life that make you more conservative. And these generations are not hitting those milestones that force the undergoing of like a political maturation process. And they're, I don't want to say radical, but it is the word. They're radical and revolutionary. and they expected Trump to do something about this system that they feel has failed them so badly, which it has. And I think doing the research in the book, one of the most eye-opening things is that I'm an older millennial, but I was raised by very hardworking.

I mean, my father was instilled an incredible work ethic in me. So I sympathize with some of the boomer arguments, which I think a lot of people wouldn't expect me to do. I do, but I'm also a millennial who, got thrown into the workforce in the 9-11 era. And I'm also a veteran who signed up after 9-11. You know, I'm like right along the vice president's trajectory. So, you know, I understand how these changes really kneecapped you or handicapped you in American

society coming into. And Gen Z has in many ways even worse. And they're saddled with an even bigger debt and less opportunity. And I mean, the statistics are there. And I remember talking to Newt Gingrich, the former Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, about this when we were talking about the book. And leave it to Newt Gingrich to read a book in like a day. This guy sat down and just digested the book probably twice. I was really impressed that he read, I mean, very clearly.

He had a firm grip on everything in the book. And he was stunned. I mean, he was stunned by these statistics. It opened, he opened his eyes. And he said, I didn't realize they had it this bad. This isn't good. because he's a student of history too, and he understands, we are an exceptional country,

but we're not exempt from the laws of nature and nature's God. If your government does not meet the basic needs of your citizens, and it's supposed to be a representative government, and if it doesn't feel represented, dark days lie ahead. So if MAGA doesn't solve these problems for them, Mom Donnie will. And I'm just saying, you know, I'm using two figures. And I think a lot of people would be stunned, guys,

and how many people who supported Trump went out and vote. it from Mondani. The book, your interviews are there. It's crazy. I was about 10 days ago. I was in Chicago. I was attending at a completely different event. Very different place from Chattanooga.

But, very different. But nonetheless, I did have time to speak to people. I suppose a lot of people, because I do. I'm one of those people who goes out and talks to people and somehow I managed to get them to talk. And it was exact, I mean, this is, of course, purely anecdotal. It's not a scientific sense.

survey or anything like that. But I came away with exactly the same impression of what you set out. I spoke to waiters. I spoke to taxi drivers. I spoke to students. I spoke to people who were, you know, youngish people. And your, your, my sense is exactly the same. A distinct radicalization is taking place in America. And I don't think that this is. is well understood by the political elites at all. Now, why don't they understand it? Is it because they're not getting the actual polling data, the material? Is it that they don't want to, is it that they don't want to hear it? Or is it that they're not being provided with it? It's a little bit of both. But the biggest problem is the Boys Club. I mean, I ran into this

when I first started polling in 2016, the cycle that you cited, all I wanted to do was demonstrate that the swings in public polling were an artifact of the methodology itself that Americans take, they change their minds, sure, they're persuadable, but these wild gyrations in Leeds, the ABC News poll went from like Hillary plus 14 to Hillary plus two in eight days. That doesn't happen. That's an artifact of response. bias. And that's all I wanted to do. But because I was not a member of the club, you know, they came at me guns blazing, you know, the knives out. It was, it was really something.

And speaking of Hillary's emails, the Google Consumer Surveys people ran into the same problem. They wound up shutting down their operation before the election in October. And they were, those guys were emailing me. Hold strong. Hold strong. So it's hard to punch through that. And the truth is, you know, we're supposed to be a, a merit. The truth is a lot of these people, I'm not trying to insult anybody, it's just a fact. They're not very smart. And they're disconnected. And it's unbelievable how the people who either run the world or advise the people who run the world are incredibly stupid.

They're not at all talented in a way that you would expect from, you know, what Jefferson called this artificial aristocracy. That's what it is. there's the natural aristocracy that he had hoped to permeate their American society is being it's being kept down it's being you know depressed by an artificial one that wants to hold on influence and hold on to power and there are of course tons of lobbies who do not want the system to change um you know this is not a dig at boomers it just is what it is in america boomers have been the center of the universe politically for 40 years and they don't want big radical change so there's a ton of hurdles when you're trying to explain to people look this is how people

feel just yesterday on x i looked at one of the gop consultants so i know well and he's talking about how mag is not the problem motivationally for november they're ready they're geared up they're ready to vote the problem is the right leaning independent and i read you know i'm looking at his charts i'm reading his argument and it dawns on me he doesn't know and what what i'm referring to is the fact that who identifies as MAGA now is different than who it was in November of 2024. It was younger. It was less white. It was more diverse. It was a dynamic coalition. Maga now is the very voter that opposed Donald Trump in primaries in 2024, opposed him in 2016. And I say this all the time is a great example. If I was to call Mark Levine in October or November before the election in 2024,

and he would tell us, of course, no, I'm a Republican. I identify as a Republican. We always give them the detail question, the Republican identification detail. Okay. Well, do you identify as America first or MAGA or do you identify as more traditional republicanism? Mark Levin in 24 would have said, no, I'm definitely a traditional Republican. I'm not MAGA. If I would have called Joe Rogan or Tucker, right, and definitely somebody like a Joe Rogan who's not really political, he was exactly the kind of guy who helped Donald Trump win this election easily. he would say, I guess I'm a Republican if you have to force me, even though he's really not. He's just, he's leaning, he's leaning that direction now.

And he would definitely identify as MAGA. Now the roles are reversed. And actually, it's even worse than that for MAGA. Now Mark Levin identifies as MAGA and Joe Rogan is hiding in the independent category. And we can only find him because we decided to say, okay, if you're an independent, tell me, are you, did you previously, maybe over the last two years, identify as MAGA or America First, would that be fair? And 15 to 20% of independents on any given month are saying this now. So they're hiding. They're gone. They're out. And it dawned on me that, Alexander, they don't know that. They don't know that the real, we call it

all the winning parts of Trump's coalition. There's always going to be a core Republican vote. But all the winning parts are gone. They're not MAG anymore. They're hiding in the independent, or some of them are just saying, I'm a Republican and nothing more because they're so mad at MAGA, they're so mad at the president that they just don't want to say they're MAGA anymore. And these consultants are trying to motivate people to vote and they don't even know who their targets are. So, I mean, again, some of it's just a fundamental misunderstanding. And they're ivory tower boys, you know. So what do you think is likely to happen in the midterms?

I'm going to just put a theory to you, which I read in the final. Times. Financial Times follows American politics very closely, more closely than any other European newspaper, by the way. Anyway, they said the midterms really don't matter because even if there is a small swing, if there is a swing towards the Democrats in the midterms, ultimately Donald Trump will just ignore what goes on in Congress. He's not going to need to worry about what Congress does. he'll be able to continue exactly as always because in America today the swings are never so great or so strong

that they really create a fundamental change to the way in which the presidency, the president himself, can govern. So that was the financial time. It's a very cynical take about the midterms that Trump will just sail through and it's not really going to have a big impact on him. what do you think yeah i think that for well first of all it depends on how big the democratic win

is that will that will affect the rest of trump's term i know republican lawmakers right now who are calling democrats and saying please don't target me and i will support x investigation or y investigation when you when you raise it against the president they're literally making deals gentlemen to avoid the democratic war chest and they'll have to have to to hold to those deals when the time comes. You have a bunch of Republicans, especially in the U.S. Senate, one of Trump's key mistakes was not taking out the blob in the U.S. Senate and backing Thune instead of Rick Scott. And I'm not saying Rick Scott is super, you know, ultra maga, but he was certainly better than Thune. This is going to haunt him now because there are a lot of,

because he didn't do that, there were a lot of people like Cassidy and Cornyn and Tillis, who were constant thorns and Trump's side throughout the first year and a half of his presidency. And if he would have swapped out leadership, they would have been able to either get them more under control or frankly threaten them. Like, that's how Democrats work. And it isn't that hard. I think a lot of people don't understand. It's actually rather easy to twist the lawmakers' arm and make sure he's not getting that lobby job, Mr. Tillis. When you get out, he's going to be a very wealthy lobbyist when Mr. Tillis gets out. they could take that job from him in a heartbeat. And then he could go home to North Carolina with nothing to show for his years up there.

But they, you know, soon's a ballplayer. So Trump made that key mistake. And that's why I'm saying this because those squishy Republicans will join with Democrats this time. And I think Republicans were kidding themselves. There's no Trump to worry about again in the future. He's done. After this election, there's no chance of a resurrection for a third. term. He's at a level now, and that's sad for me to watch the president deteriorate in the public

space like this. But he's at a level now where he's far more unpopular than he ever was in his first term. He is far more unpopular now than he was after January 6th. I mean, it's insane, which was, I think, one of the more serious blows that a media hoax or whatever you want to call it dealt to him. The Russia hoax did not hurt him this bad. COVID, you know, in the lockdowns, which did hurt him, didn't hurt him this bad. He's in a betrayal space where the voters feel that he no longer has their back, so they no longer have his. And that will send, I'm telling you, Alexander, that will send these spineless Republican senators over across the aisle in a second. And I actually think if it's a big Democratic win, then he is very much at risk

of being removed. I think that's actually, if it's a blue tsunami, that's probably that's probably the most likely scenario. And he himself probably doesn't know this because presumably he's not getting the data that he's telling him this. I've tried, I've tried. And they've brushed it off. They literally said, and I will just, I don't mean to interrupt you,

I just want you to know, when I literally went up there and said they will remove you guys. Do you understand they will remove you? They joked and they said, no, there'll be a mild pain in my neck. I don't I'm like okay I don't know what multiverse you're living in but that's not going to happen. It will come for you and they will come for you hard which I think somewhere he knows in his mind which is probably why and I hate to bring this up publicly but everyone's going to know soon anyway. It's probably why the family is like Ulysses S. Grant rolling in deals and dough right now and making money using the Oval Office at a rate.

I mean, guys, if Joe Biden did this for the Biden family, what we're seeing now with the Trump family, the right would be apoplectic. They'd be losing their minds. We did a focus group with young MAGA, with young voters. They didn't even, we did eight different, I don't want to say scandals because they're not scandals yet, but eight different public reports about Trump's,

you can use the C word. I mean, it's corruption, it's pageant, it's corruption, you know, and they didn't know. And once they learned more about it, it got bad. They abandoned him. So I'm saying like this is this is something that's different than the media coming after him or the FBI coming after him. This is making the voter feel like you betrayed them and you're not looking out for them and their interests. And that is dangerous because that your support with the public is your only suit of armor as a president and your only real defense

against an impeachment and removal effort. And that brings me back to our earlier point because if you are the president, how do you know that you've got the people's support? You do, you can, if you're a politician, you have your instinct, you can go out, you can talk to people, you can do all of those things. But the United States is a country of what, 350 million people. You can't talk to every single person. You have to have, you have to have reliable pulse and reliable post-pulsters like yourself that you can depend on and who will tell you the facts as they actually are. And I would like you to share with us some of the things that you told us about in Chattanooga, which I presume are there also in your book, about how polling works in America today.

Unfortunately, I spent the last 10 years of my career trying to fight what I thought was a almost, you know, incestuous relationship with public pollsters and the media, because the media has an incestuous relationship with the Democratic Party, that we were entering a sphere where there was really, you're no longer a public pollster. You're really a partisan pollster, and you're being funded through relationships because of your friendships and relationships with a certain party and people in your party. And lo and behold, they all lean Democrat every time there were these big polling misses. So I spent 10 years doing this against the left and only for the right to now put together a system that is far worse in my mind than I saw from left-wing pollsters.

And at least, you know, the media university pollsters were getting grants from left-wing people, and that's how they were funding, you know, the mammoth University poll or something like that. This is darker. This is either directly from PACs going to so-called independent polls or I'm just going to blab one right now. or setting up faux subscription services where a wealthy female donor pays a supposed public pollster 100 to 120K a month just for nothing. For no access like Gallup Analytics, you can pay a fortune for if you, you know, or Wall Street firm.

No, no, nothing like that. It's a wink and a nod. Here's my phony subscription service. It's going to be funded by GOP donors so we can circumvent the packs and nobody ask questions. And you put out polling that we want you to put out. That shows a narrative that we want you to show. Now, within reason, because the pollster has to be careful, not to totally ruin their reputation,

which is why you have seen all of these so-called pollsters that have been lumped in with me as independent this year, taking forever to show the public that, guess what, this is a Democrat plus 10 generic ballad. We're in deep trouble. And I warned everybody, and I said, you watch, come Labor Day, they're all going to hurt to me at Big Dad. a poll. You will see all of them one by one by one. And the left wing pollsters, by the way,

were playing a similar op where they were showing what looked to be a closer race because they wanted the right complacent boys. They didn't want the right to understand how much trouble they were in because they've seen this before. I know Democratic pollsters, I've gotten quite friendly with a lot of Democrats over the last two years considering my criticism of the administration. they were afraid that if we alerted the right to the deficit now, that MAGA would come blazing out, because they know they're low propensity voters, they'd come blazing out in a midterm for the first term ever,

and rob it from them again. They're terrified. Maga has them, they inflicted a form of like PTSD on left-wing strategists and pollsters, because every time they think they have an election in the bag, when Trump's around, he gets this group of people that they can't detect, in their polls to vote and it takes it from them.

So they have this form of this PTSD. So they, Alexander, they had their own reason to lie to people. But the right is even more sinister. The right has betrayed their own people. And they are getting, they are making generational amounts of money, generational wealth amounts of money burning MAGA to the ground and lying. And it's the most honestly, it's the saddest thing. I have ever seen. And you know, and I'll just say this, you know that we were offered the same

deal. And I'm the, I am me and one other person, which I'll just say right now is Mark Mitchell, we're the only ones who turned it down. And I mean, that's it. So, you know, guys, you better just be careful and take, take what you see with a grain of salt. It's absolutely tragic. I think that was a tremendously brave and wonderful thing that you did. And I just want to say that and Mitchell too just to say I guess we like being poor Alexander I don't know what to say you like being honest and I get and doing your work properly because this is this is the other thing if you if you're using polls in this way then you're not using polls to report opinion you're not using polls to report what the public is thinking you're using polls to try to shape opinion

to shape the whole landscape and presumably also ultimately to manipulate politicians and even to manipulate the public. So if everybody believes, as an awful lot of people I know did believe in the last presidential election, that Kamala Harris is going to win, that is going to have an effect presumably, or so you believe, on how things are going to turn out in the end.

It didn't work out like that. Probably it doesn't actually work out like. that. But that seems to me what is being attempted here. And it is very sinister and it does not belong in democratic politics. Your thoughts? I would just say in 2016 as well, they did this and they convinced their side, being they the left, they convinced their side that there was no mathematical way for Donald Trump to win this election. And so when he did, it led to an environment where it was very easy to convince half the country of some ridiculous, I mean, if you just think about it on its face,

some ridiculous conspiracy that Donald Trump colluded with Vladimir Putin and they stole the election. Now, anyone who has a thinking brain, you know, it's a decentralized, as Barack Obama himself said, it's a decentralized system. you can't just pair with a foreign leader to steal it with bots and, I mean, it's just a ludicrous proposal. There are secretaries of elections at local levels or county clerks at local levels, depending on the state. They have to report up to an individual secretary of state. Yes, elections can be stolen, but not in the manner.

And with the breath that they were claiming that it would be done by, if you want to know how to steal an election at a much larger scale, look at 2020. That's a different situation altogether. But you couldn't do it in the way they were saying. But Democrats, the reality broke their bubble. It broke their worldview. And they needed something to fill that space to make their world make sense. And the Russia hoax did that.

If you're going to do this to MAGA, I mean, we can throw in any number of potential scenarios up. You know, like maybe Trump goes out on Wednesday morning and says the Chinese did it or the Iranians did it. And MAGA doesn't believe polls anymore, even their own pollsters, apparently. Maga doesn't believe it. So Trump can convince, you know, 30 million people, you know, that the Iranians hijacked the election and now we have to go nuke Tehran or something. I mean, it's dangerous. This is incredibly dangerous.

And, you know, there are some really good people out there. They're far and few between. But, you know, Mark Halperin is effectively the nation's political. shrink at this point. I mean, he's, he spends weeks before elections trying to like make the other, prepare the other side that's about to lose for loss. And that's sick. That shouldn't, that shouldn't need to be done. You know, you know what I mean? That shouldn't even need to be, uh, the case. It shouldn't, there shouldn't be a need for it in our system. People should understand sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. And more importantly, by public polls being honest, they should know why they're

about to lose already. Right. Well, can I, can I go to something a little more positive now in some ways, which is, again, and this, this came from the discussions I had with people in Chicago. And again, to repeat, this is a tiny sample. Obviously, I can only speak to a few, a number of people. Right. But the, the amount of cynicism about the political system that I heard from America's at every level, every single type of person that I spoke to was off the scale. I mean, people are at some level aware of all of the things that you are saying. They may be in a revolutionary mood, but I didn't get the sense that they really do want to tear down the whole system.

They still have a deep commitment generally to the United States and what it represents and what they believe that it represents. It's the political system itself, the politicians, the way Congress works, the lobbies, all of that that appalls and disgusts them. Now, out of that, is there a chance that something else might come, something different might come, that there is an audience there, rather than a constituency there, a big electoral constituency, that someone can tap and can mobilize, which can produce real change.

Yeah, I honestly think that's the hope for the book when the first two days of the book being released three days, I was getting a ton of messages from people saying, you know, I'm in chapter three or I'm in chapter four. And, oh, man, I think we're doomed. This is not good. I mean, because the math is just the math. But that's not really true.

And I keep telling people, keep reading, get to the end. I mean, I'm going to scare you more before you do. get to the end and that's my intention because I do think if harness properly, this mood can be used in a positive way. There has to be change in this country to like at like systemic change. And I hate using less word, but it's not the constitution they want to burn down. You know, it's it's not, you know, they're not looking to raise it to the ground. It's just there's, especially the right needs to understand that their view is that there's nothing really left to conserve it has to be restored so they just want a restoration to the original promise and they

want to burn down those parts of the government and the way it just works that that has led it to this deterioration so i think if properly harnessed alexander it is it is an opportunity and that's my point, don't let the left get it. Because the left is always, we got to remember, these kids gave the ball to the populace right first. Their instinct was not to give it to Kamala Harris. They're in, you know, Donald Trump won 18 to 29 year olds in the state of Michigan. He did incredible, especially with younger men, but he did incredible with the youth. I remember Charlie was over the moon. Like it was a life goal that he completed in his early, that he was able to see happen in his early 30s, which was remarkable. But they weren't our voters. They were Trump's

temporary voters. And we needed to recognize that at that time and almost coddle them and nurture, you know, that relationship and make sure that we're governing for their needs, for their interests. Otherwise, we could always lose them. And that's really the danger here is that someone else, with the broken pieces of MAGA, you know, falling all over, someone else. Someone else. else is going to come around and scoop them up as they come. And we have people, we have seen people on the left, very, very smart, recognized right away that these lobbies are going to make Trump mess up. And when he does, they're going to, we're going to be there. We're going to be there with open arms to catch these, you know, disaffected voters to, to embrace these very disappointed. And frankly,

gentlemen, I haven't heard out of the American public things that I've been hearing as a pollster lately. And I've just never heard it before. It doesn't have to stay like this. We can harness it and use that energy for something good. But that's the whole point of the book. And why seriously? I know every author says this. But I really do think it's the most important book out right now because it's a race.

It's a race to get to these voters right now. And right now the left's winning because we hurt them so badly. we disappointed them so badly. Absolutely. Somebody once says, I'm a very wise person. I can't remember who. What said once that when change looks impossible is when it becomes inevitable. Yeah. And I think that is exactly right. It's a great quote. Yeah. The question is not whether there will be change. It's going to be who leads and rides it. And that, I think, is extremely important. and that's absolutely a good reason to buy and read your book. Rich, Rich, Barris, thank you so much for coming on our program.

Let's absolutely have you again, please, and keep us informed about things that are going on, and thank you again for coming here. Anytime Alexander's an honor to be here, and I don't know what took so long, but apologies, and I'll see you soon. All the best, guys. Thanks. Thanks.