The Duran Podcast - US carrot and stick offer to Russia

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

US carrot and stick offer to Russia

All right, Alexander, let's talk about what is going on between Trump and Putin, between the United States and in Russia. The New York Post, they put out an interesting story a couple of days ago, claiming that Trump has called Putin. They've had a phone conversation, though in that interview on Air Force One, you didn't have a direct quote from Trump saying, as much. But once again, on Air Force One, Trump did indeed tell reporters that he has spoken to Putin. Now, we don't have any dates or any type of timeline. We don't even know how many times they've talked to each other. But you do have Trump now on record saying that he has spoken with Putin. So I guess that means something that's an official statement, official recognition from the president that there has been a conversation between the United States and Russia at the highest level.

So let's start with that. What do you think of what's going on with the conversation? Because on the Russian side of things, the Kremlin has had to issue a statement saying that they cannot deny or confirm the fact that a conversation has taken place. Of course, the Kremlin's statement was, came after the New York Post article. Now we have Trump once again saying, yes, I have spoken to Russia and to Putin, which I would mean will force Peskov of the Kremlin to have to issue another statement and perhaps say that there have been conversations between the two leaders. I don't know. What are your thoughts on this? Well, on the very last point, when Peskov actually said, I mean, it was actually, it was actually

actually a really rather funny comment from Peskov. He's like, I can't confirm it, I can't deny it, all kinds of contacts, taking place all the time. I don't keep track of everything. It might be that something's happened and I don't know about it. And for that reason, I can't confirm. He has no idea. He has no idea.

He's boss is talking to the president of the United States and he, Peskopf doesn't know anything. Peskopf can be quite humorous at times. It might be that this is a bit of a joke, actually, that he was playing. But he did also say that when the Russians have something of substance to communicate, they will do so, which I took as a very heavy hit that they're going to confirm it fairly soon. And probably at some point we're going to get on the Kremlin website an actual readout. Now, this is what I think is happening. I think there have been conversations between Putin and Trump.

I'm going to make a guess, and this is a pure guess, I think there's been more than one. This is by, I mean, Trump is hinted that there has been more than one conversation. I think the Russians were completely taken aback when Trump basically told everybody via the New York Post on Friday that there had been those conversations because I think there'd been some kind of an understanding that these conversations for the time being would be kept private, which is not unusual. I mean, world leaders do talk to each other

and there's an agreement that you don't always publish, readouts. And, I mean, there's nothing, nobody should read anything sinister into that, by the way. But I think the Russians were taken by surprise. They probably read the New York Post story. They wondered whether Trump really had confirmed the fact that there'd been a call, and that's why they held.

back, but I think there has been. I think there have been discussions. Now, this is what I think happened. Trump was inaugurated. Up to that time, I suspect there had been no discussions between Putin and Trump prior to the inauguration, despite a Washington Post article claiming that there had been. The Russians denied that conversation took place. Trump appeared to deny that conversation took place. I think there was no conversation. Then I think Trump, Trump, was waiting perhaps for a call from the Russians. The Russians may have been waiting for a call from Trump, who knows, but nothing happens. And then Trump did what he often does. He published that extraordinary comment on truth, social, the one about threatening the Russians with tariffs and

sanctions and taxes and saying to them, you know, that at the same time, you know, I really like you and we need to do a deal and all of that. I think that was very. basically from Trump's perspective, an invitation to treat. We then got over the weekend directly after that truth, social message, an interview from Putin to Pavel Zarabin, which is very, very conciliatory towards Trump, said, you know, that he was right about the 2020 election saying that the Russians really do want to speak with him, saying, by the way, that massive sanctions by the United States against Russia would be a bad idea and that they would backfire against the Americans and that he didn't think that Trump would really do that.

And I think directly after that message, that interview from Putin, which was clearly addressed to Trump first and foremost, I think at that point, discussions between the two began. And then a couple of days ago, just before Trump had that meeting with the New York Post on Air Force One, we had Peskov coming along, he's saying that contacts between agencies in Russia and America have intensified. And I think looking back, that was clearly a hint that Putin and Trump have been talking to each other. I think there have been discussions and I think there's probably been more than one discussion. And it's probably too early to guess exactly where all this is going.

But my impression is that Trump himself was pleased by the fact that these discussions are happening. As I said, the Russians were taken by surprise by the fact that he disclosed them. But if we go back to that original New York Post story, you have the situation. when Mike Wolfe comes into the office, Trump's office. That all looks like, you know, he might have been invited to come in. And Trump says, yeah, now that's the time to get things really moving. Can you speak to the Russians? We need to get these meetings set up the soon as possible, basically.

So I think we are now getting actual diplomatic movement. Finally, real context between the Americans and the Russians, probably between Putin and Trump. And I'm guessing that the two have spoken at least once and perhaps more often than that. That's my sense of where we are. We're definitely getting diplomatic movement beginning this week, a lot of diplomatic movement between the United States and Russia. Just to reference the Writers' article, it says, speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One, Trump indicated that the two men had been in

contact. That would mark the first officially acknowledged conversation between Putin and a U.S. president since early 2022. So, I mean, Writers is basically saying it's official from Trump's side of things. So just very quick, Heskopf would most likely come out with a statement and say, yes, there has been a conversation in the next couple of days. I think, as I said, we're going to get more than that. I'm guessing we will get a readout from the Kremlin. It'll probably be, I mean, I've seen this happen. The Kremlin do this before.

They will provide a readout, which will make it clear that there's been more than one call and we'll have it all set out there. and nobody should expect too much from these readouts. We're going to read about how Putin took a principled position setting out, you know, the principled stand of Russia on the Ukraine issue. And then we'll have further discussion about how the two leaders have agreed to meet and that the conversation perhaps took place in a friendly atmosphere and that, you know, other important topics of international relations were discussed as well. So that kind of readout, I suspect, is coming.

And we might see it, you know, within the next 24, 48 hours. I mean, I think that now that the news that the contacts are happening is out, I think it will come up fairly quickly. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there. We do have diplomatic movement. We have Vance heading to Europe. I believe he's actually in Paris today. We have Kellogg, we have Hegsef, and I heard Rubio is also heading to Europe. They're going to Europe to participate in various events and meetings, the NATO meeting in Brussels for Hegsef, as well as the Ukraine contact group meeting, which he's not sharing.

The United States is not sharing that. The UK is going to share that, but it looks like Hegset will be present. Of course, we have the Munich Security Conference where Vance is reported to be meeting with Zelensky in Munich. All of this is going to be about Ukraine, Project Ukraine. Yes. With the exception of NATO and Hexseth, who's going to tell the EU NATO members to bump up their spending on NATO to 5%. Everything else is all about Project Ukraine. So the fact that you're going to have Kellogg and Vance and Rubio speaking with the Europeans and speaking with Zelensky about project Ukraine is an indication that the plan that they're going to be pushing is going to be the ceasefire plan.

You know, ceasefire European troops in Ukraine. they've made a point to say that. No U.S. peacekeepers in Ukraine, it will be European peacekeepers. You want to use that word in Ukraine. Europe is going to take over the support and the security of Ukraine as well, which means they're going to have to pay for everything. And the promise that Ukraine won't enter NATO, perhaps a demilitarized zone. That's pretty much the framework of the plan that,

that Kellogg is pushing, and that I believe Vance has supported and has outlined as well. Maybe Vance is planned is not exactly like Kellogg's, but there's definitely the ceasefire component. I think that's the foundation of the entire plan that they want to put in place, which is a ceasefire. They want to start with a ceasefire and with Ukraine, now to NATO, and then you have all the other stuff, the peacekeepers and the de-militarized zone and stuff like that. So what do you make of this diplomatic activity that's going to be taking place in Europe at all these various events and meetings and conferences? Well, I think the first thing to say is that it is very interesting that so many different

people are coming from the United States and that already highlights, I think, an important fact, which is that I don't think they're all talking with exactly the same message. Yes, I think for the moment they're all going along, not thinking, much with, you know, I think essentially the plan that you've described, but I think it is the strana plan, you know, if I can describe it, call it that. I think that plan, as I've discussed before, I think it originated from within Ukraine. I don't think it was originally the American plan exactly, but I think that Kellogg has basically adopted it. But if you go back and look at what Vance has previously said about Ukraine and compare it with what Kellogg has previously

said about Ukraine. There has been clearly a difference between them and it is more than a difference of nuance. Vance basically says we've got to be rid of this problem. The United States is over-invested in Project Ukraine. Project Ukraine has been a failure. It makes absolutely no sense to go on investing money and resources in it. Vance and people like him, and I suspect this includes Rubio, by the way, and Hague's there. They basically want to cut out. So yes, they will go along with this plan for the moment, but I don't think they do so with any deep sense of commitment or conviction to it. Are they going to try to go for a ceasefire real quick? I mean, they may not agree fully with Kellogg's plan, like all the points.

Yeah, but are they all in agreement that will try to push for a ceasefire? I think so. I think for the moment, they will try to go for that. If the Russians say no, then I think Vance Hexeth, probably Rubia, will move on to something else. Whereas I think Kellogg, conversely, actually believes of this. And Wals. And Wants. And Wants. And Wals as well.

And Wals as well. Those are the two guys that are. Exactly. And they're going around. If you look at the people, Kellogg, Kellogg's already been in Europe, by the way. He's meeting all kinds of people. If you go to Keith's a count at X, you will see who he's meeting. And it's all the ultra hardliners.

He's meeting the Baltic people. He's meeting all of these people. Those are the people that Kellogg is meeting. And one is getting all of these reports that Waltz and Kellogg are basically pushing this idea that if the Russians don't agree to the ceasefire and they don't agree to basically the Stranah plan, then the United States will declare economic war on Russia. They will sanction everything that they can. They will sanction every country that trades with Russia.

They will do all of those things. And I think that is the message that probably Kellogg, I'm going to guess Kellogg has also probably been in touch with the Russian. at some level. I think this is the message that Kellogg and Co., Kellogg and Wolves, are trying to convey. The trouble is the Russians don't believe it. Putin has already said he doesn't believe it. He says, I don't believe Donald Trump is going to do something that will damage the economic interests of the United States. And an economic war of the kind that is being floated against the Russians will do precisely that. It will cause massive disruption to global

trade. It will result in energy prices shooting up. It will also meet international opposition. Now, Xi Jinping has apparently just confirmed that he's going to Moscow for Victory Day. Lula has already publicly confirmed that he's going to go to Moscow for Victory Day. Modi is apparently now in advanced discussion with the Russians about hosting Putin in India. So we see that all the big bricks countries are basically already saying to the Americans, look, if you want to declare economic war on Russia, please understand we're not in on this. If you want to start imposing sanctions on us, well, don't you dare? He will simply create problems for you.

We will absorb them. We will simply accelerate our own moves to move forward without trading in it and trade systems and all of that kind of thing. So I think Trump, Hegg says, Rubio and Vance, especially Vance, understand all of that. I think Trump understands it too. So I think that they will run initially with Kellogg. and his plan, they'll see what the Russians say. Probably Putin has already discussed it with Trump. I think that when it's clear that the Kellogg plan won't fly, the Americans will start looking for other ways out.

Because the big story of this, the absolutely central story to take away, the fact that Hegsa is transferring the Ukraine contact group to British chairmanship, the fact that Trump almost certainly is indeed talking to the Russians, to Putin himself. All of the things that the Americans are basically saying, all of them point in clearly one direction, the United States getting out of Project Ukraine. That is for Vance, Hegsseth, Rubio and Trump the priority. Kellogg and Waltz have their own ideas, but I don't think that they're the ones who're going to win out in the end. Yeah, I wonder if Trump is saying that Kellogg and Walter are so invested in this ceasefire plan that he's going to let them go ahead and try to float it to the Russians, talk about it to the Europeans,

but effectively he's going to lean on Vance and Rubio and HECS when it comes to Ukraine. Exactly. And he seems to be conducting a lot of the diplomacy himself, which, by the way, I have some concerns about. I mean, we are dealing with the Russians who are very, very well organized when it comes to negotiations. I think that Trump, and I'm not disputing Trump's diplomatic skills, which do exist, despite what people say, I think he does need to widen the pool of people he has on side when he's talking with the Russians. But anyway, I think for the moment at least, the key thing is Trump wants this done. He wants to have this sorted out.

And if it doesn't work with Kellogg and Walsh, he will go to Vance, Hegseth, Rubio and all of the others. And he will deal with Putin himself. and it will come to a completely different deal. It will not work out with Kellogg. It will work out with Kellogg. The Russians have already said as much that it's not going to work out with Kellogg. Another sign that that is not good for Ukraine and for the Europeans is that the first meeting between, the first official meeting between the Zelensky administration and

the Zeletsky regime and the Trump administration is that it's going to take place after a phone call with Putin, which is not what Zelensky wanted. Not what the Europeans wanted, not what the UK wanted. And it's going to take place with J.D. Vance, who, as you said, is someone who it was not so hot on Project Ukraine. So that's a bad sign if you're Zelensky and if you're the Europeans in NATO. I mean, this is not what they want. Zelensky was pushing for a meeting, a face-to-face meeting with Trump, having the Europeans there with him, having Kier Stammer there with him. And then all together, this was what was going on.

in Zelensky's imagination. All together, they would go to Putin and they would present the surrender terms to Putin and to Russia. That's what Zelensky was hoping for. And so it looks like he's getting the exact opposite of that. Now, with the economic warfare talk

that Kellogg is putting out there against Russia, one of the sources that you have contact with, who has been very reliable, you talked about this in your video update the other day, who has been very reliable when it comes to information that's originating from the Duma, from Russia and from the Duma, said that or let you know that there is this carrot and stick approach that Kellogg and Waltz and Trump, because Trump has been talking about it as well, are trying to put to the Russians. You mentioned the, the stick. Maybe you want to elaborate on that, but there's also a carrot involved, which is the

complete lifting of all the sanctions, everything, including Swift, even getting Nord Stream back online, which I find kind of odd, given that it was Trump that, that was the first person to call for getting rid of Nord Stream when he was president in 2016. So talk a bit about this carrot and stick plan that is being presented to the Russians, that is being talked about in the Duma, that is being rejected by the Russians and the Duma. And the way that Russia would respond to the stick part of it, because if this was to be the plan, let's just say that Trump did go with Kellogg instead of going, say, with the Vance side of things, then Russia would be unleashed in ways that I think the world would not be prepared

for in economic terms, but even in military terms. Talk about that. Right. Well, before I do that, though, can I just quickly follow up what you said about the fact that, you know, these direct contacts between the Americans and the Russians are not going to be welcomed by Zelensky and by the Europeans as well, by the way. Not only are they not going to be welcome. They are the worst possible nightmare for the Zelensky and the Europeans, even more in some ways for the Europeans than for Zelensky. I mean, it's not as if Zelensky can't very much anymore. But for the Europeans, they have just been pushed completely to one side. Here they are, your great collective West, the staunch allies, the people who were there together.

with the Americans in this great enterprise. Now we are the Americans talking to the Russians. And the Americans say, we're going to wait, long as it takes, all of that. And the Americans are now preparing to do their deal. They're preparing to pull up. And they're saying to the Europeans, well, you know, if you want to take it, if you want to take all the burden, if you want to give the guarantees and send the troops and do all of those things, well, it's up to you.

You can go ahead and do it. But we have other important things to worry about. As I said, when the penny drops in Europe that this is not just happening, but it is for real, and by the way, it is for real, the shock is going to be simply enormous. I mean, it is going to be the biggest crisis the Europeans have experienced since the end of the Second World War in terms of their diplomacy. I just wanted to make that one. Now, about the carrot and stick, you're absolutely right. The Americans apparently are telling the Russians, look, if you agree to the C-spive,

you agree to the freeze the conflict, this is clearly originating to some extent for Kellogg. If you do all of these things, oh, we will give you all of these nice, juicy things. We'll give you back your money. We'll reconnect you to SWIF. We will let you start sending gas through the pipes. back to Europe, will even let you get Nord Stream back, which, of course, the Russians, I think, are going to be deeply skeptical about, because as you're absolutely right, he said, the man who first imposed the sanctions on Nord Stream was none other than Donald Trump

in his first term. So, anyway, that is the carrot that's being waived at the Russians. The other is the stick, and it is outright economic war. We will sanction. your oil exports, your gas exports, any ship, any business, any company, anywhere in the world, any country that trades with you will face secondary sanctions. We will impose a comprehensive world economic blockade on Russia. Now, I've already said that will be catastrophic for the global economy. The Russians will see that as a bluff. Putin has basically already said in public that he's,

sees that as a bluff. It is very, very dangerous to negotiate with the Russians on the basis of what they see as a bluff because the bluff is going to be called. But let's assume it's not a bluff. Let's just do the mind game and say to ourselves, what will the Russians do in that case? Let's say Trump sides with Kellogg and Watson says economic warfare. Exactly. Full economic warfare. Well, then the Russians have very simple and very clear options, and it's what they will do. They will go into full autarchy. In other words, they are a continental, self-sufficient economy. They produce all the energy, all the food that they need in order to keep going. They will start imposing the full type of controls. that an economy that goes into autarchy usually has, which is central planning systems, rationing systems, all of those things, which they can do and which they have, of course, done in the past, and did, for example, during the Second World War and during most of the period

of the Soviet Union, and which the United States has also done in the past, for example, during the Second World War, and which Britain and Germany did in the past two, the Russians would do that, and they can do it because they have all of the inputs. They have the grain, they have the resources, they have the energy, they have the industrial base, they have the science to do. And since they would be in a state of economic war, remember all of this playing out, even as there's economic chaos around the world, food prices exploding, energy prices exploding, even as that plays out, the Russians would go into full mobilization mode, because mobilization

of the economy is how you respond to this kind of economic challenge. But mobilization of the economy also leads to mobilization in terms of war effort. So the gloves would come off in Ukraine, which start having outright attacks on the energy system, outright attacks on the Dnieper bridges, which the Russians up to now haven't attacked, outright attacks on the political centers in Kiev. We would have a huge escalation, on the leadership, everything. We would have a huge escalation of the war. And one in which not only would the Russians pursue outright victory because, you know, in conditions of economic warfare, negotiations become evisually more difficult, but one in which the Russians really would not stop until they

finally reached Ukraine's western borders. So it would be an absolute disaster. Obviously, it is not the scenario the Russians want to play out. They don't want to move towards a full mobilization, economy and society and war fighting capability. Ending the Soviet Union was an effort to try to get away from that kind of model. But it is something they know how to do and would do. And for the West, it would be a total disaster. It would mean that, as I said, you'd have economic crisis around the world. On a scale we haven't seen probably since the end of the Second World War.

And we would also have the Russian army there in Europe, right at the borders of Europe, very, very powerful, full mobilization economy behind it. The United States would be stuck in Europe. It would not be able to transfer its forces to the Pacific because it would have to confront the Russians. It would set us up for a huge geopolitical crisis. And bear in mind, this economic siege against Russia would not be sustainable for very long, because eventually countries, China first and foremost, will start to cut deals.

They'll start to find work around. Or they will simply defy the American sanctions and blockades and things of that guy, which is more likely because from a Chinese point of view, they have a geopolitical interest anyway in keeping Russia. strong and keep the Americans tie down in Europe. And where the Chinese go, others eventually will follow. Bear in mind, again, Xi Jinping is going to Moscow. He's going to be there in May. Lula is going to be there in May. Modi is inviting Putin to come to India. So there is no international support for this. So it would probably only hold together anyway for just a few months.

So this plan of Kellogg's would be an absolute disaster. Again, Mike Wals and Kellogg are out of touch with the realities of the modern world. And they don't understand Russian society and the economy and the way Russia works and the way it is organized at all. They're still stuck with this one-dimensional idea that you know, you're dealing with a gas station masquerading as a country. and if you push it hard enough, the whole thing will come to humbling down. Yeah, I agree with you. They're still stuck on the thinking that if you push Russia hard enough, you'll get the collapse and the regime change.

They're stuck on that idea. I can understand Kellogg, given that he's, you know, one of these Cold War type of guys, one of these McCain type of generals, but I don't understand why Waltz is so invested in this type of thinking. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the word is about Wolves that he is obsessed with what happened in Afghanistan, the collapse in Kabul and all that. And that this is, this has shaped his entire understanding of pretty much everything. But that's Afghanistan. Exactly. I mean, he's got to move away from

that and start thinking more, you know, holistically. And understand that Russia is completely different. Yeah, yeah. You didn't mention as well that if there is an economic war, that would mean that if they did go with the Kellogg plan, that would mean that you'd be going after Indian refineries that refine the oil. So you'd be sanctioning that. You'd be sanctioning Turkstream, which would effectively be sanctioning Turkey. You would be hurting Europe, hurting Hungary, hurting Slovakia, because they're getting a lot of their oil from Turkstream. You would try to blockade the Baltic Sea and try to go after all of the shadow tankers. as they call them, it would just be chaos.

Everywhere, you'd be sanctioned China, Chinese banks. All of that stuff would be South Africa, Brazil, China, India. They would never, never go for this, especially given that Trump is going after South Africa. He's going after China. He's going after all of these countries already. He's already stirring up trouble with these. members. You're making an absolutely correct point. What would happen? You would think you would say to

yourself, you're declaring economic war against Russia, but in reality, you would be declaring economic war against the whole world. I think even Canada would be siding with the bricks on this one. I know, absolutely. It would be an economic disaster. You would have Erdogan, Modi, Lula, Or, uh, uh, I mean, they'd all be furious with it. Yeah, it would be furious. I mean, it would trigger chaos. It would, as I said, that prices would surge everywhere, including in the United States author, which is why Putin in his interview with Darabit said, you know, I don't think

Donald Trump was going to do this. Would you have a section of OPEC? Well, you were, you in Saudi Arabia, everybody? All of OPEC. All of them were he's threatened to. NBS, everyone, everyone would be, you know, thrown into this. So Putin said, you know, I don't really think Donald Trump, who cares about the American people, wants to develop the American economy, is really going to go there and do this thing.

And he's absolutely right. So don't threaten something which the other side will see as a bluff, love they will call, and which if you do, would be a complete disaster for yourself. Yeah. I still think that if there was this type of economic war that was declared on Russia, that it would be Europe that would get hurt the most out of this at the end of the day. Well, absolutely. They would just get pummeled from this. Yeah. I mean, there would be a huge crisis in America, but, you know, the Americans can get by. They're largely self-sufficient in most things.

The Europeans are not. And of course, remember that they would then have an all-out war situation in Europe, which, I mean, it just doesn't even be bare thinking about. The Europeans, if they were saying, they would be strongly opposed to this idea. But of course, they're not. They're not saying. But even the Europeans are scared to go after Russian LNG, for example. Yeah.

So they're crazy, but even they're not that crazy. So what do you think is really going on with these dueling plans and these dueling diplomatic efforts? I mean, what's at the root of all of this? Is this Kellogg and Walt's being allowed a little bit of leeway to go and do their thing and then just pass it off to the adults when they do their thing? I mean, what exactly is happening here? Is Trump balloon testing stuff? Is he trying to figure this out?

Is he waiting for the Russians to help him? I think partly maybe to some extent he is. I mean, you know, this is very much Trump's style, by the way. I mean, he throws out all kinds of ideas, some of them absolutely catastrophic and, you know, terrifying and immense and all of that. But he throws them all out and then he waits to see what comes. And I think that we can focus a lot of what Kellogg is doing and what he's saying. and we'll see what he comes up with.

But ultimately, if there is a dialogue underway between Putin and Trump, that is the one that is really important. That is where the real decisions are going to happen. And to be frank, I think J.D. Vance, say bluntly, is a much more important advisor to Trump than Kellogg is. Oh, yeah. No doubt about that.

No doubt about that. Just to end the video, there's also a talk that perhaps Russia is going to help Trump out in the Middle East or at least dealing with Iran. So I think that's part of the negotiation process that could be taking place, which would also signal that, once again, to the dismay, to the horror of Zelensky and the Europeans, that Trump is basically working or moving closer to working with Russia rather than, than and antagonize it in fighting Russia. Absolutely.

This is an enormous topic, but apparently Trump has brought up, the Americans have brought up the issue of Iran with the Russians. This is what the source that you mentioned has told me. We see this in Trump's own words to the New York Post, where he first spoke about the fact that he'd been in contact, direct contact with Putin. He also then almost immediately, after saying all of that, talked about the fact that he wants to do a deal with Iran eventually. The Russians have huge influence in Iran now. They've just carried out.

They just agreed this treaty with Iran. And absolutely, I think that the Russians and the Americans can talk to each other productively about Iran. given that just as much as the Americans need to stabilize the situation in Europe. They need to stabilize the situation in the Middle East. And the Russians can help them do it. It's a big deal. Yeah. That's important for Trump and for the United States is to have someone who has this type of influence

on Iran and can mediate. Exactly. If you remember, if you lived through the Cold War, which of course I did, you would know that this used to happen all the time, that there would be conflicts and then the superpowers would, the Soviets that the Americans would speak with each other, and they would then come to an understanding and then each would lead on their proxies or their allies. And this is not so very different from what I think you are likely to see between America and Iran. That's the key to all of this, yeah. Well, let's end the video, but the key to the

all of this is, to put it very, very simply, is ditch, ditch Ukraine, give it to the UK, give it to Europe, they want it, give it to them. Give it to them. Give it to them. Have it. Take it. Make it a gift. Take it, Ursula. Take it Kirstammer. You can thank us later. Give it to them and then work with Russia, especially on, on the Middle East and on Iran, so we can avoid a war. I mean, that's the logical thing that that should happen and should take place. Absolutely.

I agree. All right. The durand.com. We are on Rumble Odyssey, bitchy, telegram, rockfin, and X. Go to the Duran Shop, pickers, some merch,

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