The Duran Podcast - US ceasefire plan and west defeat

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

US ceasefire plan and west defeat

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the diplomacy that is taking place between the United States and Russia. We have some details of the proposal, at least according to the mainstream media, that Rubio presented to the UK, France, and Germany as well as Ukraine in Paris last week. and and Rubio is he spoke with Lavrov and he said that the proposal is also going to be sent to Russia or has been sent to Russia. It doesn't seem like there's, it seems like this is a framework proposal. It doesn't seem as if this is an agreement, a detailed agreement as to how the U.S. plans to resolve the conflict in Ukraine, of which the U.S. is an integral player, an integral part to the conflict, as we know from the New York Times article. But they're positioned as the mediator in all of this,

and they're trying to get the Europeans on board, they're trying to get Ukraine on board, and they're trying to get Russia on board to a plan, which I believe is a type of hybrid, or at least a framework proposal. Can't even call it a plan. A framework proposal, let's call it, which appears to be a hybrid of Kellogg's April 2024 ceasefire plan with a little bit of Whitkoff, Istanbul plus June 2024. I say a little bit.

You can maybe say the territories part, though not to the entirety of the territories. Part of the territories will be, will be seated to Russia. That's what the plan allegedly says. And then you have a recognition of Crimea and sanctions relief, which the Russians never asked for sanctions relief. Anyway, that's what we have right now going on. By the way, Alexander of the Wall Street Journal, they are reporting that according to their sources who have seen this framework proposal, one of the ideas being floated out by the Trump administration is that the ZNPP,

the Zappadoja power plant would be considered neutral, would be a neutral territory, along with the area around the ZNPP, and that would come under the management of the United States. Also, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that in this framework proposal, there are no limits on the size of Ukraine's military or the amount of weapons that Ukraine can obtain once the agreement was worth to be signed. Anyway, that's where we are with all of this. What are your thoughts? Well, it is 95% Kellogg's proposal of April 2024. It's quite clear to me that what's happened, there's been an internal... Got a little bit of Whitkoff. It's got a little bit of Whitkoff. It recognizes Crimea as part of Russia. That's one important thing. The talk about moving forward

with sanctions relief is there in the original article that Kellogg wrote in April 2024, but Wyckoff has taken it an awful lot further. But ultimately, if you go back to that article, the Kellogg article of April 2024, and compare it with what is being proposed now, they are, to all intents and purposes, the same thing. In fact, what we can now say with confidence is that the Trump administrations, Donald Trump's whole peace proposal for Ukraine, has been based on Kellogg. I mean, Kellogg created the framework which Trump up to now has been following. So if we just go through all of these ideas, I mean, they're all ideas which the Russians have already rejected. They're not prepared to seed territory as far as they're concerned. They consider

the four regions to be their territory. They're not prepared to cede Ukrainian control over any part of it, even on a temporary basis. Now, that has been their consistent position. I've seen no sign that they're prepared to shift from it. In fact, they've been repeating it. And apparently, on the 18th of March, when Putin spoke to the industrialists in Moscow, he said, he said, he made it clear that that was the Russian position. If you look at what Lavrov has been saying, he says, he says essentially the same thing. Now, the proposal, Kellogg back in April, 24, spoke about kicking the topic of NATO membership for Ukraine into the long grass, you know, delaying it, postponing it for 10, 20 years.

What we're now told is that NATO membership of Ukraine is off the table. But what does that actually mean? I mean, does that mean there's going to be an agreement, an actual signed agreement between Ukraine, Russia and the United States and NATO, that Ukraine will not enter NATO? Now, that would be a treaty. it would need to be ratified by the Senate. I can't imagine the Senate even now agreeing to such a thing. And frankly, it doesn't seem to me that's even what is being proposed here.

So again, this falls far short of the Russian position. They made absolutely clear that they're seeking cast iron guarantees. And again, I don't see that this really addresses that. Russian, the size of the Ukrainian army, this has been a massively contentious issue. Kellogg talks about the United States supporting the Ukrainians to build up their armed forces once the war is finished. It's exactly what is being proposed now. The Russians want demilitarization. It's not even being floated here. All of the other things changes to Ukraine's internal politics, denazification.

and all of that which the Russians have been talking about, there's nothing there about this either. The Zaporosia nuclear power plant to be run by the United States. I mean, these are proposals which Kellogg may see as reasonable. He may be telling himself and Trump that these are concessions that, you know, that the Americans are making to the Russians. And as you rightly say, he may be saying that, you know, sanctions, Russians are probably very keen on Sanctions relief and all of that. But it's things that the

Russians have already said that they're not prepared to go with and which don't remotely address their concerns. So I see no sign, no hint from Moscow that they are prepared to shift on any of this. And besides, they can also point just what Zelensky is saying, because Zelensky is in that he's not going to part with the territories. He's insisting every single part of the territories, including Crimea itself, will be returned to Ukraine at some point in the future. He insists that Ukraine must have the right to join NATO. And fairly soon, I mean, he's not, you know, putting this off for any time period.

He wants to keep the Ukrainian armed forces at the size that they currently are and to rearm them. And he wants missiles and he wants every kind of weapon that exists. So he is showing no sign of cooperating even with the most, shall we say, concessive parts of this plan as far as the Russians are concerned. So I am sure that the Russians are going to be. reject this. Now, they're probably going to come back. I suspect what's going to happen is that over the course of this week, there's going to be another meeting in London. I mean, there's so many meetings now. It's just incredible. But there's going to be another meeting in London. By the way,

I should just quickly add that it's also clear going back to Kellogg, that Kellogg has always envisaged European troops going into Ukraine. He's worked this out with Starma and Macron. If there is this kind of agreement that he's talking about. He clearly anticipates European deployments to Ukraine. The Russians, of course, have consistently ruled that out as well. So I suspect what we're going to see over the next couple of days is Wick Gov going again to Moscow. He's going to have another meeting with Lavrov and Usakov and Dimitriyev and Putin. And they're all going to tell him what they've already been telling him. This simply will not work. It doesn't address. It doesn't address Russian positions. Whitgolf has already met Putin. He's already been told all of this

three times. He's come back to Washington. He's explained this to Trump, but Trump always listens, is always there. He's got Kellogg, Rubio, Wals, and the others. And they said to him, well, don't pay any attention to Wickgoff. What Wickgoff is saying, Whitgoff is inexperienced. the Russians are running rings around him. Listen to us. We're the professionals. We know that the Russians will accept this. And I think what we saw over the last couple of days is that Trump is now finally starting to have doubts.

He's told Rubio, Waltz, Kellogg and Co. Look, this is your plan. This is your proposal. This is what you sold to me last year. This is what I took with me into the election. This is what I thought would work after the election. This is your last chance. If you can't get this agreed by the Russians,

and by the way, we are talking about the Russians mostly, but by the Ukrainian Institute, if you cannot get this sorted out this month by the end of this week, then I'm walking away. I've had enough. I can't waste more time on this. I've got to go and deal with other things. Now, what exactly Trump then intends to do?

He's made it clear that he's not going to go on supplying weapons to Ukraine. But what else he's going to do after he walks away, that is at the moment completely uncertain. But that, it seems to me, is what we've seen over the last couple of weeks. Now, over the last week. Now, one last thing, because the Russians do not want to be seen. to be blamed for the fact that there's no cessation of hostilities. My own interpretation, because there's been a lot of confusion about this, about Putin's Easter ceasefire, is that one, he constantly,

whenever there is a religious holiday, either Christmas or Easter, comes under pressure from the Orthodox Church in Russia to get some kind of a ceasefire, because, of course, there are a lot of Orthodox Christians, as we know, in Ukraine, And the Orthodox Church is concerned about giving these people an opportunity to engage in worship over the religious holiday. Now, this has been tried before. It didn't work very well in the past.

But Putin doesn't want to be seen anyway slamming the door. So he agreed a 30-hour ceasefire. And partly the intention was to show to the Americans, look, even 30-hour ceasefire, even 30-hour ceasefires don't work. Zelensky initially rejected it, then he turned round presumably after course of London and Paris, and said that he would go along with it. In practice, there's been many, many breaches of the ceasefire,

and it didn't really work any more than the ceasefire on energy, on the energy targets work. So again, when Witkoff comes to Moscow, I'm sure that the Russians are going to say, look, we've already told you this is five-step work. Why are you coming back and telling us the same thing? Why are you telling us things like that you will take control of the Zaporosia nuclear power plant? Well, we've already made it clear to you that this is not open to negotiation. And Whitkoff is going to come back to Trump and he's going to tell Trump the Russian

aren't moving and Trump is going to walk away. But at least that's what he says at the moment. He might not, I mean, you never know with Trump. But this is where I think this whole thing is set up and is set up to fail all over again. This is my own view. Yeah, the question really is, why does the United States continue to come up with these plans? I mean, you're basically telling the Russians now if you go by the Wall Street Journal reporting, if it is to be believed, and I don't see why not.

I imagine they have their sources who have given them this proposal or who have told them about the proposal. The idea is that Russia is going to leave the ZMPP, which they control and they're going to leave that territory, and they're going to go against the Russian Constitution, which says that these territories in their entirety are part of the Russian Federation, whether you like it or not or agree with it or not, that's that's the referendum. That is what the Russian constitution, Russian law is saying.

It would be politically impossible for Putin to go against that. Politically impossible. So, I mean, the United States knows this. Maybe Kellogg doesn't know this. Maybe Kellogg doesn't want to believe this because he's so heavily invested in Ukraine and trying to defeat Russia. Maybe Rubio knows this but doesn't want to believe it. This is not stuff that is secret to us or to the people watching this video. If we know this stuff, I'm sure the State Department and the NSA and the United States, they know all of this stuff.

So the question really is, why does the United States float out these impossible, ridiculous plans? do they think that that Russia is going to agree to these things because I don't even know why because just because because they agreed to Minsk 1 and mixed 2 so they think that that Russians are are just going to be suckered into into some sort of a ridiculous deal do they think that this is this is about doing business with the United States and that that Russia wants to must to normalize relations with the United States so badly that they'll that they'll sacrifice everything. I mean, Trump put out a post on truth social where he said that that Russia, hopefully Russia and Ukraine will make a deal this week. And if they do, it's the start of some big business and everyone's going to make a fortune.

I mean, is this the thinking? Or is it the fact that is it the fact that Trump went along with Kellogg way in the beginning when he was campaigning? And he bought. into Kellogg's ridiculous ideas about the conflict in Ukraine because Kellogg was getting all kinds of false information. And obviously he's got certain connections to Ukraine through family members. We won't get into that. But was Trump getting this terrible information from Kellogg, buying it to the fact that he could get a deal in a day or in 90 days? because the information that Kellogg was giving him was that Russia's going to collapse. Russia's losing.

Just give Russia a couple of offers like sanctions relief and stuff like that. And Russia's in such a desperate state that they're going to agree to my ceasefire plan. I mean, is this what happened? And then Trump bought into all of that. And now he's saying, okay, well, you know, it's not as easy as Kellogg was telling me it's going to be so. So I might as well just go along with Kellogg. Everyone's going to turn this thing down and then I can walk away from this. I think it is all of the last three.

Firstly, I think Trump, who I suspect does not know the details of this conflict. I mean, he's an incredibly busy man. He was an incredibly busy man last year because he had an election to win. And yes, most of his time when he wasn't fighting the election, apart from running his own business, which people forget. but he was also doing that last year too. But apart from all of that, he was also having to fight all those lawsuits, if you remember, and that must have taken up an enormous amount of time.

He didn't know the details of the Ukrainian conflict. And he's never shown much interest in the granular detail of the Ukrainian conflict. I doubt that he knows it to the level of detail that viewers of our program do, for example. So Kellogg comes along. He tells him it's easy. We can do this. We treat Putin respectfully and nicely. That's in Kellogg's article of last year. We engage with the Russians, which Biden never did. And that was a serious mistake. And Kellogg says that in that article as well. We look for a compromise and we come up with all of these. proposals. And I'm sure Kellogg told Trump the Russians will go for it because they're very, very keen on a good relationship with the United States. They want sanctions to be lifted. They want to escape from the shadow of China. And the war is unwinnable for them. They are suffering terrible losses. And over the last couple of months, we know that there's been another narrative

that's been circulating that their economy is in very, very bad shape. So I think this is what happened. I think that he was told that it is a sure win. And he also, I think, believes that the Russians do want this economic relationship with the United States that he's floating. And this is what I think he imagines, that sanctions relief is something that's going to enormously attract the Russians because their economy is in such bad shape.

And he also believes, Rubio said it, that the war is unwinnable for either side. Now, the last is not true. The war is not unwinnable for either side. The Russians, as they never failed to point out, are actually winning the war. Now, it may not be happening in lightning speed. We may not be talking about a blitzkrieg,

but they are winning. are going to win the war on its present trajectory, irrespective of what the US says or does. The economy in Russia is not in the state of crisis that article after article commentary in the Western media is implying. But do you remember Trump has written through social posts in which he seems to think that it is? He's talking about doing massive business. with the United States. He seems to think that this is something that the Russians are going to find so attractive that they're going to put everything else aside. Perhaps at a fundamental level, he cannot understand or comprehend why the Russians would not want to do that. I can remember,

I'm sure you remember it too, when we went on to a discussion on, um, um, it was actually on X, with, and, you know, Vivek Ramoswamy and Elon Musk also participated. And they seemed to think that the Russians would agree to freeze the conflict if they were offered not complete removal of all sanctions, but some sanctions relief. And we pushed back against that. We said, you know, this is misjudging the reality. and I remember that those two extremely clever people found that it's very difficult.

They didn't relate to it. I think they assume, they still assumed, that sanctions, getting sanctions relief is somehow very important for the Russians. And I think they're wrong about this. As you rightly said, the Russians have never asked for sanctions relief, not at any time.

But this isn't something I think that not just Trump, I think many people in the United States simply don't get that for the Russians achieving their objectives in Ukraine is more important than sanctions relief. So I think it's a combination of all of these things. Kellogg overpromising, and I think Trump is starting to sense this. This is why we've had this series of outbursts over the last couple of days. from Trump, which had been relayed by Rubio, that he's all but had enough. He's preparing to walk away. So Kellogg overpressed. There's the belief that the war is in stalemate, which it isn't,

and that the Russians are keen to end the war for that reason. And then there's thirdly this idea that the Russians, their economy is under immense pressure, and that they need the sanctions relief from the United States and that they want the sanctions relief from the United States because they're keen to somehow escape China's shadow. So I think all of these things are there. I don't think anybody has properly sat down with Trump and explained to him,

this isn't really true. You're working on the basis of a false premise. this. Nobody's explained this. And so the result is that, as I said, we get these strange proposals, which of course the Russians are going to reject. Now, I ought to say, this isn't the first time this has happened. It happened also in previous conflicts. Again, I was there during the time of the Vietnam War negotiations in the early 70s. I remember the well, and I read, much a great deal about them. The United States also was making all sorts of proposals to the North Vietnamese, which the North Vietnamese had already rejected and which the United States

couldn't understand why the North Vietnamese would not accept. And years were spent in fruitless negotiations before the Americans finally grasped this and we got an agreement in 1973, which basically was shaped around. around North Vietnamese demands. So it always takes the United States a long time to get to the point of realizing that the other side is serious about what he's saying. And if you read Henry Kissinger's memoirs and his various passages, he talks about his exasperation with how tough the North Vietnamese were.

And I'm sure that over the next couple of weeks, we're going to find that the Americans are saying to each other that Putin is impossibly tough and that the Russians are so tough and that they're callous and indifferent to the suffering of their own people and to the losses of their troops and all of that kind of thing. You saw that again in a comment Trump made about your horrible people and all of that. Again, not understanding what. is driving the Russians to take the stand that they're taking. Yeah, but Trump definitely knows that the U.S. is running this war. Yeah. I mean, he's the president of the United States. Well. And he does have, he does have people in his administration very close to him, like Vance or Tulsie Gabbard, who have a much different view of the conflict than Kellogg and Rubio.

I still believe that that Vance and Gabbard, they still have a bit of that of that narrative that Russia is not doing so well or this is a stalemate. I think the stalemate narrative has really broken through the entirety of the U.S. government and I believe left, right center. They've all bought into the stalemate narrative fully. They fully believe this a stalemate. I think they've also all bought into the casualty. narrative as well. And I also believe that they believe in the whole economy thing as well. Maybe have people like Vance and Gabbard who believe that the economy is not as bad as, say, Lindsey Graham or Kellogg are making it out to be. But I also believe that they have this sense

that the Russian economy is just about to collapse. Maybe it's not going to collapse in one month, but it'll collapse in one year. So I said I think there are narratives that have broken through and they dominate throughout the entirety of the U.S. government and the Trump administration. So that's bad. That's very bad. But, you know, he does have people that do present a different narrative than Kellogg. And obviously, he's not listening to them or he didn't listen to them in the beginning.

and he based his entire Ukraine strategy on Kellogg. A horrific, a terrible, strategic foreign policy mistake, which says a lot about Trump's judgment and the people he surrounds himself with. And he does know that he is fighting a war against Russia. And not only is he fighting a war against Russia, Alexander, I'll just leave it at this point.

Orban, Orban said over the weekend that the West has lost this war to Russia. The West has been defeated. Orban said that the West threw everything that they had at Russia and they lost. And he said that Trump is trying to save the U.S. From a terrible defeat, acknowledging that walking away from this conflict, which is what Trump apparently will do, means that that that, that, the U.S. is not going to get to the full brunt of the blame of the conflict. They'll probably

fall on the Europeans, but the United States did suffer a defeat. That is what Arbonne is saying. The U.S., the collective West, have been defeated by Russia. Orban has acknowledged that. You know, the U.S. is about to head into a defeat if they continue on this path. Trump can walk away from this, but I guess the media will dictate, we'll decide, the collective West media will decide how much of this they want to blame on Trump and how much of this they want to blame on Biden. One thing that became absolutely clear to me and yourself when we went to Hungary back in, I think it was November or October or November,

is that the Hungarians have a much more realistic understanding of the realities of the war than pretty much anyone else in the West does. And Orban certainly does. And if Trump really wants to get a proper understanding of what the realities of the war are, the best person he can speak to is Orban and Peter Seattle, the Hungarian foreign minister. He didn't do it, though. He didn't do it, exactly. We said he should do it.

I'll tell you where I think the problem is. It is important to remember the date of Kellogg's article. It was written in April, 20th. 24. Vance only became part of Trump's team a couple of weeks later when he was nominated for vice president directly after the assassination attempt on Trump. And of course, Gabbard, well, I don't know how long the connection with Gabbard is. But again, I doubt that she was brought in until later still. So it was Kellogg who was there first and it was Kellogg who Trump has a long connection with. I mean, he's known Kellogg for a long, long time. It was Kellogg who came up with what I think

he told Trump was the sure fire plan that would see this thing to its conclusion and, you know, bring peace to Ukraine. when Kellogg wrote that article back in April 2024, I assumed it was basically written for the election. It was intended to help provide Trump with talking points that he could take into the debates with Biden and ultimately with Harris. But it's now clear to me that at some point around then, Trump did actually commit himself to this plan. and he's never broken from it. He's never said to Kellogg, look, this clearly is unworkable. The Russians say it is unworkable.

He's got other people in his administration, Rubio and Wals, who've clearly been backing Kellogg. So it's not as if Kellogg is isolated within the administration over all of this. So I think that's where it comes from. I think the trouble was Kellogg sold this plan to Trump first. And I think Trump does believe that the war is in stalemate. He does believe that the Russians are suffering these catastrophic losses.

He does believe that the Russian economy is in a kind of slow burn crisis. There's no evidence of that. But you read articles in the American and British media. They're constantly coming up with what they say is evidence that this is true. You know, that inflation in Russia is very high. That interest rates in Russia are very high. That, you know, their economy is disastrously overheating. That every other part of the economy, apart from the military industries are in crisis,

that Russia is running out of money. So, again, Trump probably has. has not been provided with alternative information that would make you realize that this is all actually not just questionable, but straightforwardly wrong. And so he goes along with it and went along with it for three disastrous, well, I said to him about disasters for three months of fruitless negotiations. I say negotiations. There haven't been any negotiations. I mean, there have been no real negotiations between the Americans and the Russians about this conflict at all. There's been one, there have been three meetings between Putin and, um, and Wittgolf. But there's never been a

situation where the Americans and the Russians have really sat down and established proper negotiating parties to discuss this. When the Americans and the Russians, when Lavrov and Ruth, and their teams met in Riyadh, it was agreed that the United States would appoint a high representative to set up a kind of negotiating team. The Russians said that they would do the same when they discovered what the rank of this person was. It's never really happened. I mean, we've never had a formal announcement that Wittgolf is the head of the negotiating team to negotiate with the Russians over Ukraine. And coming back to what you were saying,

given that we know, and Trump obviously knows, that this is, in fact, a U.S.-Russia war, to all intents and purposes, that should have warned Trump that the Russians would never accept the Americans as mediators. The Russians would accept the Americans as negotiating partners,

because the United States is a party to the war. But instead, he went along with this idea of Kellogg's, that the United States could be a mediator, which the Russians were never going to accept. Now, what needed to happen is that after that meeting in Riyadh, a negotiating team should have been set up by the United States. The Russians would have set up a negotiating team of their own. There should have been meetings in some, a neutral capital,

maybe a yirat, the negotiations should have taken place on a continuous basis. The process would have taken perhaps months, maybe a year, maybe longer. The military situation, of course, would have continued to evolve throughout all of that time, as it did during the Vietnam conflict. But if we adopted that kind of process, perhaps some sort of understanding would, which, had been reached. But Trump wasn't interested in that. He thought that he could do this quickly because Kellogg promised him that it could be done quickly. He thought the United States could act as a mediator in the conflict when, as I said, it is actually a party to the conflict. He was led astray, partly, I think, by his own inexperience, partly by the wrong information he was given.

The correct advice, the correct thing for him to have done was what we said back in the the summer, what Steve Bannon, his former advisor, has also said to him, just walk away from this. Never get yourself involved. There is no benefit to you or to the United States in getting bogged down in the negotiations. We have lost the war. Orban is absolutely right. We should never be involved in this war in the first place. It was a war that didn't in any way benefit the United States. was not in our interests. It was all part of some grandiose neocon project that was never going to work. Just walk away. Let the outcome be whatever it is. Leave it to the Europeans. Leave it to the Ukrainians. They can sort it out. There's no reason why we should have been involved at all. Well, Trump, I think,

is gradually coming around to this. But I mean, he's wasted three months if he's had been a trying to achieve the impossible. Yeah, I agree. It's been a wasted three months. And, you know, he had Witkoff meet with Putin three times and now maybe a fourth time. They met for multiple hours, four or five hour meetings. There's no doubt about it that Putin gave Whitkoff the real deal as to what's going on. Yes.

As much as Putin could give to Whitkoff, he gave him as much as he could about. about what is the real situation with the conflict in Ukraine, which I imagine was Putin telling Whitkoff, we are going to win this thing and we're going to defeat you. I mean, I imagine if I had to distill it into one sentence, the four hours into one sentence, I imagine that's what Putin told Witkoff. And just going off of your point, Alexander, we'll wrap up the video with what you think. Russia always positioned this as a bilateral negotiation. They always did. So there's this whole nonsense about the U.S. being some sort of a mediator in all of this is not the way Russia went about this at all. And the Trump administration also, for a good part of the last three months, also went along with a type of bilateral negotiation with Russia.

the last couple of weeks it does look like the Trump position has changed. He is saying this is Biden's war. He is saying the United States is going to walk away from this. What that means, we'll find out. But he is also turning to Rubio and Kellogg. It's a sign again of somebody who hasn't really got on top of the complex. of this. So he's doing what people who find themselves unable to make a clear decision one way or the other tend to do, which is go with both sides at the same time. Now, Whitkoff, as you rightly say,

has met with Putin three times. He's had it all explained to him by the Russians thoroughly and in detail. He comes back to Washington. He reports about this to Trump. But then what immediately happens, is that Kellogg and Rubio and Wolfe tell Trump, well, yes, this is what Putin is telling Wittgolf. Wittgolf is a fool to believe it. He's inexperienced. You know, don't take what Putin says seriously. All we need to do is push a little harder, and Putin will come round. And Trump has never been able to break with that. He assumes that if he rides both horses at once, somewhere or other it's going to work. Now, I think that he is losing patience.

I think this is probably true. And he has apparently told Rubio and the others, this must be sorted out this month. And if not, I'm walking away. But again, we see what that means. I wonder whether he really can walk away now. Back in January, he could. Back in January, if he'd made a clear, simple decision then to walk away, he could have done. But now there'll be people who will say, you can't walk away.

You already own this war. You've gone to all this trouble. You've trusted Putin. You see that Putin runs rings around you. He's not to be trusted. That means you've got to go on supporting Ukraine because if we lose in your, Ukraine, it is America's defeat and yours. So he's much, much more vulnerable to that now than he was back in January. But there it is. All right. We will end the video there.

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