The Duran Podcast - Xi Jinping-Biden meeting to focus on US election concerns

Episode Date: November 4, 2023

Xi Jinping-Biden meeting to focus on US election concerns

All right, Alexander, let's talk about a possible meeting between Biden and Xi Jinping. Politico picked up this story over the weekend. They said that from their sources in the Biden White House, they are very close to getting a meeting next month in San Francisco during the Asia-Pacific summit between the Chinese leader and the president of the United States. But just yesterday, Wang Yi, the Foreign Minister of China, he said, not so far. fast. Not so fast. We haven't gotten there yet. We talked about Gavin Newsom's trip to Beijing and how that might have been to try and get a meeting closer together between, put closer towards Biden and Xi Jinping. And we're now at the foreign ministers statement of China, where he kind of put the breaks on the potential meeting. He said that Biden has to stop lying. Is that possible to have Biden

stop lying? Well, well, I don't know if that's achievable. Well, exactly. I mean, the U.S. has been making enormous efforts ever since the start of this year to get a summit meeting between Xi Jinping and Biden set up. It's not entirely clear what the purpose of this summit meeting is, but I suspect primarily and ultimately it's about election issues. The US wants to keep the situation with China, at least somewhat stable at a time when everything else in the world is blowing up and going wrong. So we have a crisis in Ukraine, we have a crisis in the Middle East,

let's try and avoid at the moment a crisis over the situation in the Indo-Pacific region. And of course, the other thing that, I think is always worrying for the Biden people, is that they also want a stable economic relationship with China in the lead up to the elections, because they don't want more economic issue, you know, more trade issues with China, which might cause added,

what might, you know, increase the inflationary pressures even more. So I think that is what they've been trying to do, and they've been working incredibly hard about, to achieve this over the course of this year. We had Blinken at one point going to Beijing. We've had other US officials going to Beijing. Janet Yellen went there. The Chinese, for their part, have been playing very hard to catch.

Xi Jinping himself was absolutely furious about the things that Biden said to him, said about him over the course of Biden's state of the Union address. then even as Blinken was in Beijing, having a very difficult meeting, meetings with various Chinese officials. Biden got apparently very angry about some of the things that the Chinese said to Blinken, and he stormed after this meeting with the party donors, and he said all kinds of incredibly rude things about Xi Jinping all over again. about Xi Jinping being a dictator, about the balloon incident being basically because dictators can't lose face and all of those things.

And that made the Chinese again very angry. For a very long time, the Chinese, which is just not answering cause at all. But anyway, the Americans have made a huge effort to get this summit meeting going. We've had official after official going to China. We've had Gavin Newsom going to China. We discussed that in a program recently. We've had other people. We've had senators.

We've had all sorts of people trying to get this summit meeting organized. And eventually the Chinese responded. And Wang Yi has just been to Washington. And he's had meetings there. First with Blinken and these meetings went on for two days. then what from the Chinese and American readouts looks like a very touchy meeting between Wang Yi and Jake Sullivan

and there's even been a brief meeting between Wang Yi and Biden himself. Now the Chinese readout, you read it very carefully, gives a kind of impression that Biden gave some kind of mumbling apology for some of the bad things. that he said about Xi Jinping.

He talked about, you know, sending a message of greeting through Wang Yi to Xi Jinping, all of that. But I get the sense that the meetings did not, in the end, go terribly well. And the Chinese, who I think sent Wang Yi to Washington with the intention of trying to get this relationship back on track, at least some kind of track, and having a meeting eventually, in the way of. San Francisco. They've, after speaking to Blinken, Sullivan and Biden, Wang Yi has come back and he's reporting to Beijing that he's not sure that this is a good idea after all. So I get the sense that for the moment the Chinese are far from convinced that this meeting would have any value. And Wang Yi basically saying that, you know, there is no real trust. They can't really

trust what Biden says. Well, that ultimately tells you all. Yeah, I mean, we've been here before, right? Biden has met with Xi Jinping. U.S. officials have met with Chinese officials. And then the next day, they go on to the mainstream media and they call Xi Jinping a dictator. I mean, this is what always happens. They meet each other. They say the U.S. says nice things about China. They say, oh, our relations are at the best they've ever been, the best levels of the best levels they've ever been. And now, and then they go on to CNN and they say, you know, Xi Jinping, he's a tyrant.

I mean, the Chinese fall for this over and over again, it seems. Are they going to fall for this again? I mean, if Xi Jinping goes to San Francisco, is. Is it possible for him to go to the summit and not meet with Biden? That's, of course, the big question. I mean, of course, you would have to meet with Biden. I mean, it would be inconceivable for the president of a country to go to another country and not meet with the president of that country.

I mean, that kind of thing just doesn't happen. It would be the kind of insult that would not only wreck the meeting, it would send the relationship spiraling down even further. And to be honest, I'm not convinced that the US would even agree to host Xi Jinping in San Francisco if he declined to meet with Biden. So, I mean, there is that thing. So if Xi Jinping is going to San Francisco, he is going to have some kind of a meeting with Biden. I personally think this.

I don't think the Chinese have any belief, trust or confidence in this administration at all. I think if the Chinese do decide to go to San Francisco, they will have a pro forma meeting with Biden because he's the president of the United States and you must meet with him. But I think what the Chinese will be trying to do is they'll be trying to speak. to various other people in the United States, their friends in the United States. The Chinese media has been rhapsodic about the meeting between Xi Jinping and Yusum,

basically, you know, giving this idea that Yusim is going to be this wonderful person who's going to make things better between China and the US. They're going to try and meet other people. They're going to try and go over the heads of the administration, talk to American business leaders, American other political leaders see whether they can work with those

in order to get around Biden and the administration that is there and that might work with some Democrats I mean Newsom for example might go along with that there are as we know many people within the Democratic Party we're going to be very careful what we say here who've got longstanding connections with China some American business leaders probably want it as well

But, and I get to say this, if the Chinese think at the end of the day that they can do deals like that, they're going to be disappointed because my sense is that the overall feeling in the US is becoming so hostile to China that this is a runaway train and there's nothing, nothing could stop it. But I can see why the Chinese, who tend to be very practical and pragmatic, and see things in commercial terms. You know, if we can find a common point to meet, let's do so. It's a win-win situation for both of us.

So why shouldn't we do it? I can just about imagine that the Chinese might think that if they go to San Francisco, meet with other American leaders, meet with business people there, they can somehow find a way to get round the Biden administration, and work towards some restabilization of the relationship.

But as I said, I think if they do that, they will be disappointed. Yeah, I mean, they can do that, though, without Xi Jinping. I can do that at the summit. I know, yes. I can do that. Necessarily, he doesn't have to be there to meet with, I don't know, say Tim Cook of Apple. You don't need Xi Jinping there to be with. No, no, no.

If that's a business leader that you want to have beat a Chinese official. Absolutely. But do bear in mind that Xi Jinping does regularly meet American business leaders, for example. So, you know, it might be something that, you know, he might feel or the Chinese might feel that having the leader there, it's the way to do it. But, you know, I think that the reality is, even if Tim Cook of Apple and people like that, want to maintain a good, strong relationship with China, I don't think that they aren't the predominant. they represent the predominant current within the United States. And I have to say that, you know, business people, the Tim Cooks, the Elon Musks, people like that, pragmatic, you know, commercially minded, realistic.

But that is not the spirit that you're going to find in Washington. There, it seems to me, the neocons are absolutely dominant. and I think that they're gunning for China just as much as they're gunning for everybody else and I think the Chinese will find that they're going to be disappointed ultimately in this just as the Russians have been the Russians made years and years of trying to do the same thing

Putin used to meet with all kinds of people business people from America, business people from Germany taking telling them, talking to them, getting intelligent discussions done that would be Americans would business people would be invited to you know speak all of that kind of thing and in the end it came to nothing and I think the Chinese are probably on the same learning curve yeah yeah whatever the Russians built over over 20 30 years

was was torn up in a matter of a few months yeah with the sanctions so I mean Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, how do the Chinese meet with the Biden White House when in the spending package, the $106 billion, there's money allocated for Taiwan? Well, indeed. How does that work? I mean, actions speak louder than words. Those are the actions.

Well, indeed, exactly. You guys are still going to be funding Taiwan. Exactly. And when you actually read the Chinese readouts, I should say the Chinese readout. I should say the Chinese readouts are always much more informative than the American readouts. When you read those, you get the sense that the meeting with Sullivan particularly went very badly.

And Wang Yi was breaking up relentlessly Taiwan. And we're saying, you know, this is for us a red line. I think that the Chinese have picked up on this spending for Taiwan. They're very, very angry about it. And that might be the breaking point. That might be what eventually decides the Chinese that a meeting between a visit by Xi Jinping to San Francisco is not opportune. It's not a good idea at this time. And that might be the calculation the Chinese end up making. So, you know, it's not a done thing that this meeting will take place.

Now bear in mind, the Chinese are forging ahead with other things. The Chinese are now hosting Sergei Khoegu, the Russian Defence Minister. He's currently in Beijing. Of course, Xi Jinping met and had a very friendly meeting, a very long meeting with Putin just about two weeks ago. So, you know, the Chinese, they may be having this complex, attempt to sort out some kind of a deal with the Americans at the moment. But they're forging ahead, full speed ahead,

with all the other relationships that they're building up at the same time. And I think there is another factor which should not be disregarded, which is I think that the Chinese feel that they are negotiating with the Americans from a strong position at the moment. the Middle East situation is playing up to China's advantage. I think that is a fairly widespread view. I think the Chinese think it too. The other thing that's happened is we've had this big Sputnik moment, as I call it, this year,

which is this Huawei chip, which came as, I think, a shock to the US. The Chinese are able to say, look, all these sanctions, all these trade limits, all these things that you're doing are not working. and therefore we're in a strong position with you. Our economy is now starting to gain speed. Your economy is looking increasingly edgy and you've got a fiscal problems. We're in a strong position.

You're in a weak position. You need us. We don't ultimately need you. We can develop our technologies, build our industries. We've got our friends securely there in Moscow. We've got all the raw materials. We need all the food. need we're not under pressure.

And I can again see how from a business perspective, the Chinese might think that this gives them a strong hand. But of course, as we know, neocons don't think in these terms. They don't look at, you know, the fact that China has just developed chips. They don't look at trade routes and financial things. That isn't what neocons do. So again, if the Chinese think that they're in a sense, strong negotiating position with the Americans. They're taking a commercial approach, a business-like

approach, which the neocons don't reciprocate. I don't think the Biden White House and the neocons realize that the meeting didn't go well with Wangy. I bet you Jake Sullivan thinks it went really well. And I bet you he thinks that he got the best of Wangy. I'm positive of it. And as far, yeah, absolutely. And as far as the Chinese believing that they have leverage over the U.S., or at least they're in a better position for negotiations with the U.S., just the other day when the Australian prime minister was meeting with Biden and they took questions from the press, Biden said that China is the one that's in a weak position. China has economic problems.

China has domestic issues and problems with, and J. Jinping has problems in his administration. He made it seem like it was China that's in the weaker position, which means that's Lincoln and Sullivan and all of these guys. This is what they're telling Biden. This is the reality that they're presenting to Biden. He's repeating that. So obviously, there's the Chinese who are pragmatic and live on planet Earth. And then you have the and White House of the neocods, who probably are going into this thinking that they're the the masters of the universe and China is going to be coming to the U.S., and they're going to tell China what to do and what to do it and how to do it, and they're going to keep on funding

Taiwan, whether China likes it or not. They think the Chinese are just going to roll over and accept it. I'm positive. That's the way that they're thinking. No doubt about it. I mean, just to a final point, in the 106 billion, Alexander, it's the border wall. Okay. The southern border, fine.

But the three conflicts. I mean, they spell it out for everybody. Russia, Iran, China, the axis of evil. Money to Ukraine, money to Israel and money to Taiwan. Yes, I mean, you're absolutely right. I mean, to my mind, you're completely correct. Again, this is the road that the Russian. have already traveled. I mean, it took them a long time to get here because, of course, accepting the fact that the other side is not rational. It's a very difficult thing for a government like the ones in Moscow and Beijing to fully understand. And the Russians, as I said, have already got here. I think the Chinese have not perhaps quite got there yet. I think to be precise, I think Wang.

who's had many more dealings with the Americans than Xi Jinping has. I think he probably does get it. I'm not sure exactly whether there are other people in China, perhaps, people who are advising Xi Jinping and people who Xi Jinping has to listen to, who perhaps haven't quite got it yet. But the Chinese will get there in the end. Now, I've got to say one other thing. If Xi Jinping decides in the end, to go to San Francisco, that would confirm that relations between the US and China are absolutely in the ice age. I mean, that would be, that would be, you know, after all these efforts to try to persuade him to come, I mean, that would be a, you know, final confirmation that this relationship, for the moment at least, is dead. So it would be a major decision by China to reject these overtures now.

The US would undoubtedly see this as confirmation that China sees the US now as an absolute adversary. And it's very difficult to imagine that any kind of contacts between the US and China could take place in a meaningful form, whilst this administration remained in office. And that's something that the Chinese would have to consider because, of course, if there's any possibility that the Biden administration is re-elected at the end of next year, then the Chinese have to consider that that would mean that there would be no real movement of any kind with the United States for five years.

And that's a long time. Yeah, no, you keep on trying. You keep on trying. You never shut the door to... communication and diplomacy, but, you know, you try with, you keep on trying with your eyes wide open, realizing that what, what has happened in Russia is going to probably happen with you as well. Absolutely.

I mean, that, absolutely. I mean, the other thing is. And you wait for a new administration. Maybe you wait for a new administration. Well, I think this is what the Russians in the end started to do, and they did it very cleverly after 2014. Is you prepare? I mean, you continue to conduct discussions and negotiations,

obviously do so in good faith, but at all times you work hard and you prepare your economy, you insulate your economy, you build up your military, you do all the necessary things so that when the crisis does eventually hit, you're ready. And again, it might be the China fields that it's still got more work to do.

Very true. All right, we'll leave it there. the durand.locals.com. We are Rumble, Odyssey, bitch, telegram, rock fin, Twitter X, and go to the Duran shop. Use the code, the Duran 20, 20% off all merch. Take care.