The Duran Podcast - Zelensky At The UN, Kicking And Screaming

Episode Date: September 24, 2023

Zelensky at the UN, kicking and screaming

All right, Alexander, let's do an update on Ukraine. And everyone is now openly talking about a conflict freeze, that they would like Zelensky to freeze the conflict. They're not talking to the Russians about this, but don't talk to themselves about this. Peskov, to be fair, Peskov put out a statement, and he said that Russia is not going to freeze anything. I mean, the Russians know what they're talking.

about. They understand that everyone's talking about a freeze, so I think they felt compelled to jump in and give their thoughts on it, since I think they're an important part to this plan to freeze the conflict. So, Elensky in New York at the UN did not go well at all. I would say that this was pretty much a disaster trip. What are your thoughts? I completely agree. I mean, I'm going to actually venture a guess, and this is a guess, but I'm starting to think that we're coming close to the end of the affair, the end of the whole Ukrainian affair. Now, I think what basically is happening is that everybody in the West really now wants to get Zelensky to sit down with the Russians and agree to freeze the conflict. I think that's now the general consensus that that's really what's going on. And if you actually, listened to Biden's bumbling, incoherent, rambling speech at the UN General Assembly, which was an exercise in astonishing incoherence and another list of clichés and things like that. But he spent 25 minutes bumbling through the speech.

He eventually got to Ukraine. He spoke to Ukraine for all of one minute. and again he spoke about negotiations, that Ukraine is ready for negotiations. And it's Russia's fault that there aren't negotiations, which we all know it's not true, but again he talked about negotiations. And I noticed, and I think nobody's mentioned the fact,

but for the first time, I think, when talking about Ukraine, at least in this kind of venue, as long as it takes was not there. He didn't use those words. So it was clearly a pointer to the fact that that's what the US wants him to do. I said the US will qualify that in a moment, but they want him to sit down, negotiate, agree this freeze with the Russians.

And notice we've had one thing after another going wrong for Zelensky. So firstly, there was the Konstantinovka, a market. missile strike. We have the article in the New York Times. Actually, it was a Ukrainian missile after all. Ukrainian is very upset about this. Then we've had the announcement from the Americans, released on the announcement with the information from the Americans. They're not going to get the attack of missiles after all, at least not any time soon. The White House is now saying, well, we've given Ukraine all the weapons it needs for its counter-offensive. So nothing more coming quickly. Now, very mysteriously, there was supposed to be a meeting in Ramstein about donor countries,

you know, the countries that are supplying all the arms to Ukraine, and that was supposed to happen on the 19th of September. I have heard nothing about this meeting. I'm assuming it happened, but if it did happen, it was so low-key and produced so little results that nobody wants to talk about it anymore. And on top of all of that, and really most extraordinary and perhaps most interesting of all, we

have had this astonishing public round now between Ukraine and Poland, each pointing the finger at the other, the Prime Minister of Poland, or not the President of Poland, saying that Ukraine is a drowning

man. Extraordinary thing. You know, metaphor to you. legal cases threatened by Ukraine against Poland over the agricultural things. They've agreed to talk about this, by the way, but there's clearly a huge amount of anger, and Poland announcing that it's not going to supply any more weapons to Ukraine. So, I mean, a big row, I'm getting the sense that people have just had it up to there with Zelensky.

They've fed up with the Ukrainians. The great breakthrough they were promised during the offensive. has not happened. They are not really in the mood for an unlimited war with the Russians. There was an article in Bloomberg which talked about a seven-year war. Nobody really is signed up to that project, apart from perhaps Victoria Newland and people like her. But overall, I think that there is a general weariness and sense that this has gone as far as it can. And there's, telling Zelensky, look, we've given you all we have, we can't give you more. Apparently, there's now shortages of high-mars missiles in the Pacific because the Ukrainians

are using them all. There's delays in supplying Taiwan with ammunition because, again, Ukraine is using them all. They're all becoming tired and exhausted by this endless begging game that Zelensky puts on, and they're telling him you've got to talk, except, of course, he doesn't want to. And he made this extremely, I thought, ill-judged and angry speech at the General Assembly, in which he basically said that the Russians are terrorists, that you can't talk to them, that they should be stripped of their nuclear weapons, which is essentially what he was basically saying. And of course he again touted his own peace formula, which is for Russia's unconditional surrender, which is essentially what it amounts to.

You know, the Russian leadership, which must agree to stand trial, that Russia must withdraw from every millimeter of Ukrainian territory, that Russia must pay Ukraine enormous amounts of compensation, that Ukraine should get its entry into the EU and its security guarantee, and its future entry into NATO. And then once Ukraine has got all of these things, then maybe, maybe possibly, possibly Ukraine and Russia might sit down and talk about something.

Not clear what, but anyway, that's his plan. And today, the Swiss foreign minister comes out and says this is completely unrealistic. What Zelensky is talking about is simply not going to fly. You can't just come up with proposals like this. you've got to come up with something that the Russians can actually take seriously, and they're not going to take this proposal seriously. So I think people are getting tired of Zelensky.

I think the mood in Washington has soured, both on him personally and on Ukraine, and I think he's not going to get the weapons he wants or the money that he wants on anything like the kind of scale that he wants. The hope now is that this thing can be kept ticking over until the election, but the United States is now looking to find some way to disentangle itself from this affair. That is my own view. Now, I don't think that's going to happen because the Russians have their own ideas, but as I said, I think that the United States is starting to tire of this. It's starting to tire Zelensky himself. And as I said, I think that the United States is starting to tire of

Zelensky himself. And as I said, I think that starts to signal the end of the affair. Yeah, the, the Millie incident where he said the other day that he said he's going to retire, actually, and he said that there's going to, there's going to be a winter counteroffensive is basically what he said, that Ukraine military is going to fight on through the winter. I think that was his statement from that meeting, his last meeting. So that was the only coverage. from this meeting, the NATO heads and the commanders. That's it. There was no other coverage of that meeting where in the past, you know,

used to have statements and press conferences and all kinds of things. So this was very much under the radar. All we got was just a very, very simple statement from Italy. I'm retiring and Ukraine's going to fight through the winter. That was that. Yeah, absolutely, which, I mean, again, I, I mean, nobody. I think should take that seriously. How can Ukraine continue fighting through the winter?

I mean, this is, this is retiring. He's retiring. He's leaving. He's quitting. He's leaving. So he can say whatever. He can say whatever he wants. Exactly.

I mean, that's the point. Yes. Yeah. So Poland and, uh, and Ukraine. Just, just a couple of months ago, Dudo had his arms wrapped around Zelensky. Physically wrapped around. Olensky, right? And now they're at each other's throats. Okay, Poland has an election in three, four weeks. So obviously, they're playing this up for election purposes. I understand that.

But I don't think it is only about the election. You're getting these statements from Duda and Mudevichke. I don't think it's just for the election. Obviously, someone is telling them. while they're in the United States to say these things. Someone is saying, go ahead. Bad mouth Ukraine. That's clear, right? Absolutely.

I think that is exactly right. It is inconceivable that the polls will be talking in this way if they hadn't had discussions about this with Washington and if they didn't feel that they had diplomatic cover about it in Washington.

I mean, that I think is absolutely clear to me. And the result is, as I said, it's more pressure on Zelensky to sit down and talk. Even his strongest ally is now signaling that they're getting fed up with him. And of course, that's coordinated with the Americans. By the way, I think that there is genuine anger in Poland about Zelensky and about Ukraine altogether. I think even the polls have had enough, basically. But having said that, there's no doubt at all it's been coordinated with the American.

and the Poles perhaps are more free to say these things than the Americans are. Absolutely. I think that the people in Poland have had enough. I think they want this thing to stop. I completely agree with you. But in the past, what you would get from EU leaders was we don't care as long as it takes. I mean, Annalina said it best. We don't care what our voters want. We're going to do what we want. Exactly. to Ukraine. Now, now they're listening to what the people in Poland want, what they're signaling, but they've been allowed to, the leaders in Poland have been allowed to say these things. Now, the faction that is putting the pressure on Zelensky, we've talked about Newland,

Kagan, Graham, these neocons, and we've talked about Sullivan and Blinkin. Obviously, the turning point in all of this has been, at least in my opinion, has been Blinken's shift. Where before he was aligned with the hardcore neocons, who are probably still telling Zelensky, give that speech at the UN, don't worry, we'll back you up. you're going to keep fighting. We're going to prevent the freeze from happening. You can do it. You can break through.

I'm sure there's still a lot of neocons in the Biden White House that are actually believing this and telling Zelensky this. But I think the shift happened with Blinken, where he decided to go with Sullivan. I don't know if Blinken realized something. I don't know if Sullivan convinced him and said, look, we have an election in a little over a year. So we got to drop this losing.

policy of Ukraine is going to drag down, not Biden, the Democrat Party. It's going to drag us down. So, you know, Anthony, it's time to get on board with how I'm seeing things, which is West Germany, Korea, whatever. Because when you have a country like Poland, cutting you off, I mean, that's, that's about as big as it can get. That's, you know, Poland is saying everything comes through us. And now we've got permission to cut you off. That's basically what's happening here. That's it. That's it for you, Cray, if that really does occur. So, I mean, talk a bit about the, we've talked a lot about the dynamics, but I think we got it right.

But what do you think about my theory that this shift really is about that Blinking was kind of the wild card that tip things over towards the way Sullivan wants this to go instead of towards the way, I'll just say maybe Newland or someone else. I don't know, who you would say would be the hardcore side of the neocod. The first thing is, I absolutely agree. I think it is Blinken's shift that has been decisive in shifting the entire administration, including the president. But let's just say a few things. Let me start, first of all, with Nuland. Now, Nuland has not wavered in her plan and her commitment to Ukraine.

or to Zelensky at all. Just before I did this program, I was watching a broadcaster with Newland coming straight back from a trip to Kiev. I understand it's a recent trip to Kiev. I haven't been able to quite establish the dates, but I gather it's happened within the last few weeks. And basically, she seems to be calling for unrestricted war against Russia.

She wants Ukraine to be provided with every conceivable weapon that he wants so that he can strike anywhere in Russia that you choose it. I mean, that was my take of it. So Newland and that group, the ultra-hardline, unreconstructed neocons, what they want is further

continuing escalation. They don't care about the election next year. They don't care about China, which is the other big thing that's looming over the horizon. They don't care about anything else. They are visceral. Heserally hating Russia.

They're utterly committed to the Ukraine project, which is a project which they largely created. I mean, remember, Newland was there during the Maidan events. She was, I mean, she owns this whole crisis, and the groups around, so they haven't wavered at all. But what's happened is that until a few months ago, Blinken was working with them. he was part of that group.

Now he's moved to the other side. So, you know, he's gone over to the Sullivan side of the equation. And of course, Sullivan is at the National Security Council and he's an election person. He knows that the election next year is going to be very difficult. It's going to be very difficult for Joe Biden. That goes with that saying. It's fact it's starting to look like it's going to be extremely difficult for Joe Biden.

Biden. Sullivan is aware that the mood, the public mood in America is souring on this issue. He also knows that in Congress, it's also souring on this issue. I suspect even amongst some Democrats now, they're beginning to become also tired of this endless Zelensky thing. He also has to consider the fact that the Pentagon has never been really happy about this. They want to focus on China. They're complaining now that, you know, Taiwan isn't getting its ammunition. There aren't enough missiles for the,

Haimars missiles, for the Marines to train properly on their Haimars systems. And, of course, he's getting all of this, all of this coming together. So he is the person who wants the freeze. Now, I'm going to say something. I was listening to the president at the United Nations. I saw that extraordinary, rambling press conference that the president gave in Hanoi, which was, to be frank, embarrassing.

It's clear to me that the president isn't running things properly anymore. And I'm going to make it here a guess, and it's purely a guess, that the person who is really in charge of the administration now, for all practical purposes, is Jake Sullivan. Kamala Harris, she's nowhere to be seen. I mean, she's even less popular than Biden. Would you say something? And pretty remarkable when all is considered. So we don't hear any more about Kamala Harris. The president isn't able to function effectively any longer.

I think this is becoming a widespread claim. I mean, even people like William Hague, the former British foreign minister, is writing articles in the Times, the London Times. saying as much. So that leaves by definition Jake Sullivan as the person who is currently running things in the administration. And of course he's in contact with Blinken and he's explaining all of this to Blinken. Blinkin's had some very bruising encounters with the Chinese recently with Wang Yi and with Xi Jinping himself when he went to Beijing a short time ago. He understands

the pressure about China, he probably also understands the election. So he has swung towards Sullivan, who is, as I said, the person who is really now in control. And I think that's what's changed the whole dynamic within the administration. A year ago, I mean, Biden was to some extent in charge. He was listening to the various people. He probably, he's probable sympathies leaned more towards the Newland campaign. but with Sullivan effectively in charge today, the balance in the administration has shifted. Would you say that Blinken's speech at Johns Hopkins, the Blinken Doctrine, as we're calling it,

do you think that that was Blinken's way of announcing this shift? Absolutely. I'm with Sullivan now and our plan, my plan, our plan, is a long two-front-wrenching. war with China and Russia, bricks, multipolar, call it whatever you want. That's our plan. And this battle in Ukraine, maybe we lost it. Maybe it's a stalemate, we'll say, we'll leave that aside for now. We're going to end this small chapter in this fight with the multipolar guys I'm with Sullivan and for the next six to ten years, this is our plan. Absolutely. That's exactly what I think it was. And I mean, one of the most interesting things about that speech. I mean, he only, there was only one reference to Jake Sullivan in it.

But the praise that he lavished on Sullivan was astonishing. It was, you know, that this is the genius who is an overall charge and who manages to bring together our foreign and our defense and security policies and here's the architect of the great architect of everything. Obviously he didn't use those words. But it was like that. I mean, you have to go drill through the speech and find that. And it was, it clearly to me signalled that Blinken sees Sullivan now as the, you know, the real thinker and inspirer.

And he was also perhaps signaling to Sullivan, look, I'm on your side. I'm with you. I accept now that you're the person who is really running things. It's a way bureaucratically of signaling where one's loyalties lie. So there was that. But of course, the other thing that was interesting about that speech is, yes, a long war against the Russians, obviously. A long war against the Chinese at the same time. But the priority is China.

China is the great challenge. that is more Sullivan's sentiment and of course the Pentagans than it has been the Newland-Kagan crowds. So you can see that Blinken, he's now acknowledging Sullivan as the overall supreme leader, if you like. But he's also accepting the Sullivan Pentagon, if you like, analysis that the real conflict is with China. and we have to prioritize that. Ukraine was important. Ukraine was interesting. It might have succeeded.

It might have delivered huge benefits if it had succeeded. But against that, it's failed. At least it hasn't achieved everything that we wanted. So let's put it to one side and focus on China instead. Yeah, and everyone made a lot of money. The military industrial complex made a lot of money,

a lot of NATO officials and generals, and everyone made a lot of money. Now you can call in the Clintons to come in and eat away at whatever's left, which is exactly what's happening. So how does Sullivan, how does Sullivan blink in these guys? How do they get Ukraine to where they need it to go, which is how do they get Zelensky to call up Putin and to publicly announce? I am asking for negotiations with Putin because if they can get Zelensky to say those magic words, then the United States can come out with a statement, we can come out with a statement and say,

from the beginning, we've always said that we'll support Ukraine and all of its decisions, and we'll be right there next to them, but they need to decide, we all know what they're going to say, but they need Olensky to make that move. Yes, and he's resisting. He is resisting big time.

Absolutely. How do they do it? Well, good question. I don't know. I mean, it's going to be very, very difficult. And I do wonder, actually, whether at some point, with the way things are going at the moment, whether, in fact, they'll have to decide eventually that, you know, he isn't going to change. He's too now involved in his Che Guevara impression.

I mean, he again spoke to the General Assembly. He's, you know, khaki t-shirt and all that. So I mean, they probably will decide that this is the point where, you know, make way for someone else. And of course, they're sacking everybody. But that's not optimal. No, it's not optimal. No, it's not optimal. No, it's not optimal.

I mean, yeah, from a media PR standpoint, from an optic standpoint, the best way to get rid of Ukraine is to have Zelensky be the guy who wraps it up. Yes. Yes. For them, that would be the best way for them to sell it to the American people. Well, indeed. Our guy from the beginning, he now wants negotiations. We've got his back. Forget Ukraine, it's over.

It's not a talking point. You're completely correct. And that's an easy, much easier sell in the US. It's a much, much, much easier sell in Europe. Because, of course, in Europe especially, they've arguably invested in Zelensky's personality, even more than they have in the US. So it's obviously the optimal solution is to, get Zelensky himself to sit down and say, I want to talk to the Russians. I'm going to cancel my

decree. I'm going to speak, you know, about Putin. I'm going to speak directly with Putin. Let's have discussion. Let's talk about this. I think that's exactly what the administration wants him to do. And as you absolutely rightly say, he's resisting. He's going in. He's kicking and screaming. He made this extraordinary speech at the UN, General Assembly. He's talking about the Russians of the most ghastly way, he's burning his bridges. Now, if they can't get him to shift, and, you know, what can they do?

They're sacking everybody around him. I mean, all the deputy defense ministers have now gone. So Hannah Maliar, as I often quoted on my videos, she's gone. She's no longer there. I mean, very surprising, and I wonder whether anybody told her that she was about to go. You know, all of that crowd have gone. Reznikov, who was,

Again, one of Zelensky's allies, he's gone as well. So all of these people have gone. And obviously, you get your friends or Zelensky's friends in Poland. They're acting as the heavies. They're coming and being, you know, they're enforcing Zelensky. They're pulling his arm. They say you're a drowning man. We're cutting off your military aid.

But, you know, ultimately, as we like to say in England, you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. If you can bring Zelensky to this point, but if he still insists that he's not negotiating, that he's going to go on fighting, that he's going to continue playing Che Guevara and all the rest, then you have no real option

either to do, except do one of, well, you have three options. Firstly, you can forget about the freeze, you can forget about the negotiations, you can come back, adopt Victoria Newland strategy, go on in, give him his attack him, give him his Abraham's tanks, give him everything he wants. It's not impossible.

It might happen, but that might be one option. The second option is to simply cut him off. And that might be the other thing, you know, say, look, we've done everything we possibly can. We've brought, we've brought, Ukraine to this point. We've given it all the support that we can do. We can't give more. It's not realistic to give more. Ukraine has all the weapons that it needs. And what comes, it's now, you know, something beyond our control. I don't think the United States wants that to happen. I don't think the Pentagon likes the first option. So the third option is to remove him and find someone else. Who that someone else would be, it's not obvious to me at all at this moment. And of course, playing around with the political system in Kiev is risks opening a can of worms.

But that's what the United States has done in the past and it might do it again. My final question is, is it really important for Sullivan and these guys what Russia does? Forget the Europeans, forget the EU, forget the Europeans, forget Ukraine and Russia. But is it important Russia's reaction? Or do they just need those words to come out of Zelensky's mouth? And then they're completely done with Ukraine. It's over. They can take it to the mainstream media.

They can run their articles. Zelensky wants peace. And then they never report on Ukraine ever again, maybe once every couple of months. They run a story about peace negotiations between Zelensky or Putin or how Putin refuses to sit at the table to Zelensky. But as far as they're concerned, they've removed the headache. Whatever happens, Russia takes all of Ukraine, Poland moves in. Russia refuses to negotiate. Zelensky refuses to call Putin.

It doesn't matter. They just needs Alexki to say those words. I'm ready to sit down with Russia. Yeah, I think that's what. Because for the U.S., for the election, for Seller, for the U.S., for the U. If they can get that done, then they can, you know, the media, big tech, they'll package it and sell it to the American people in the way that it needs to be sold in Europe and Ukraine and everything that's going on there can be pushed out of sight, out of mind. Yes, I think that is what they think. And I think that's really become very much their own view. I think that, you know, they've worked on this freeze idea. They've come to a general consensus with the Europeans about it. I think that's absolutely clear also. the way. I think that they also think that even if the Russians reject it, they can pin the blame

for that on the war, you know, for anything that happens further on the Russians. And as you said, as you rightly say, they can just move the thing away. Because also, I should say this, if Zelensky does ask for negotiations, it's going to be very difficult for the Russians to say no. So there probably would be some kind of negotiation process, even if the Russians, don't take it particularly seriously, because bluntly, they don't trust Zelensky as far as they can throw him anymore. Why would they want to? So, I mean, but, you know, there probably would be some kind of negotiations, even as the fighting continues, which is not unprecedented, by the way. I mean, it's what happened in Vietnam. There was never a ceasefire whilst the Paris negotiations

were underway. So, you know, I think that, yes, for them getting Zelensky to agree, to negotiations and to ask for negotiations would be politically in terms of the United States and the elections there and the Pentagon and all those people, they would see it as the get-out-of-jail card, what the Russians do, they're not perhaps too bothered about. Of course, in terms of the geopolitical effects, the long-term geopolitical effects, that would be different because if there's a collapse in Ukraine, as I've discussed many times, as the Los Angeles Times has said,

it will be seen around the world. There's a major geopolitical defeat for the United States, and it would seem that way in Europe as well. But I wonder whether Sullivan really worries or thinks about that too much, especially given how focused on China he's become. So it may be that he has some awareness of it at the back of his mind, but he doesn't really care about it too much because he says to himself, well, whatever the troubles,

whatever the crisis that would happen in Europe over a failure in Ukraine, we in the United States can manage it. And if we, the Democrats, are still in power after 2024, well, we can write out this thing. Yeah, and if they're not in power, they can dump it on the new administration. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

They can blame me to all on the new Republican administration. They can say, we need the Democrats, we did what we could. We held Ukraine together, but the Republicans came in and it broke down under their watch. Yeah. So they need to avoid the collapse in the interim. Exactly. Like a big, big collapse. Exactly.

Exactly. Now until elections. Exactly. And at the same time, they want to disentangle the United States from the mess that it's in. So get some kind of negotiation process underway and, as you correctly say, call the whole thing off. The end of the affair, because to be clear, that is what it is. Whatever, even if there is a negotiation, it's not going to change the trajectory of this war now. If there'd been a successful negotiation at the start of the war, it would have been different. But now the Russians sent victory, and they're not going to be, they're under no incentive to compromise on whatever it is that they've decided that their end game should be.

You know, even if the Russians sense victory and say they do decide to take this all the way to, let's just say, Transnistria, let's just say that. The Biden White House, knowing the power that they have over the media, they'll still be able to contain the fallout. As long as it's not an Afghanistan type of collapse, as long as you don't have images of planes leaving with people hanging off the planes, they'll be able to cover it up. You know, I mean, most people probably don't even know what the map looks like right now.

I completely agree with that. So for them, even if it shifts over more to the west, we can, we can manage it. In terms of the United States. It's a big collapse that they can't do. Yes, it's in the United States,

absolutely. They can manage it. In Eastern Europe, I think less so. But, you know, do they really care? At the end of the day, I mean, what people think in, you know, Vilnius or Bratislava, is that really? a matter that concerns Jake Sullivan.

Well, they don't have anywhere to go either. Just the final point. Even if people in Latvia or Lithuania, Estonia, Estonia, Poland are furious with Sullivan or the US. Where are they going to go? Well, that's exactly what they think. No one wants to deal with Europe. They have no friends.

They have no allies. The only game in town for the Europeans is the United States. Yes. Yes. Well, I agree. That's, well, certainly that's what they think. I mean, ultimately, it's not a stroke. forward is that because of course there are options. I mean the the Baltic states, the East

European states might eventually decide that their better interests are coming to some kind of terms with the Russians. It's not impossible in in Slovakia I would say but that's further down the road. It's not going to happen tomorrow. Okay. Viterrea dot locals. There's a lot to there's a lot of moving pieces. There are a lot of moving pieces, but I'd say that we're definitely now in the end game. I think it is the start of the end of the affair. That's my, that's my feeling anyway. The key, the key to all of this was that trip to Kiev, that two-day trip that Lincoln took to me. Exactly. I mean, obviously, of course, the failed counter-offensive that's what drove all of this. Yes. Yes.

blinking going to Kiev for two days and giving Olensky the news, this is how it's going to be. That's what started this whole thing. Exactly. Where we are right now and where we're heading towards. Exactly. And never count the neocons out. Oh, no, of course. The Newland faction is still there.

They're very, very entrenched in the political and foreign policy establishment in Washington. And they're going to fight tooth and nail to escalate rather than to pull back. But at the moment, it's Sullivan and people around him who are in the Ascendant. All right. The durand.com. We are on Rumble, odyssey, bitchchutes, telegram, rockfin, and X. And go to the Duran shop, 10% off. Use the code.

Good day. Take care.