The Duran Podcast - Zelensky & Co. aim to prevent Trump-Putin deal

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

Zelensky & Co. aim to prevent Trump-Putin deal

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the meeting that is going to be taking place in D.C. at the White House between Trump and Zelensky, and then after the Trump and Zelensky meeting, it will be Trump Zelensky and the European A-team, the heavy hitters, as political calls them, who are holding Zelensky's hand as he travels to the United States. and Zelensky has stated that he will be aiming for a ceasefire on the current front lines. That's his goal. It's a ceasefire. He says there's no way he can accept Ukraine troops leaving the entirety of Donetsk and Lugansk,

though he continues to say that he wants a peace to come from his meeting with Trump. He remains committed to rejecting the troops leaving Donetska and Lugans regions. And then you have the Europeans who have dropped their, pretty much have dropped, their unconditional ceasefire demands. And now their last play is for security guarantees. And when they meet security guarantees, they don't mean Russia and China and India. possibly being guarantors, which I don't think Russia has any problem with, but they mean European countries and the United States as being guarantors, which is another way of saying

NATO for Ukraine and keeping the United States invested in Europe. That's the ultimate goal of the Europeans. They want to make sure the United States is invested in Europe and does it move away from Europe and perhaps pivots to China and Asia. Anyway, your thoughts on the upcoming meeting Absolutely. Well, this is being built up as a high noon meeting. And just to quickly say, the reason the Europeans are there is partly because they obviously want to put their points across to Trump, but their other purpose, their real purpose, their real reason for being there is because they want to make sure that Zelensky this time behaves himself. Now, there was this terrible meeting back in February. There's been a relentless attempt ever since to make it out that Zelensky was ambushed over the course of the Oval Office meeting in February by Trump and Vance. In reality, and we've discussed this many times, I just want to say this again. The reason that there was a blow up at that meeting was that Zelensky went to the meeting in an absolutely terrible mood, basically looking, spoiling for a final. I mentioned the fact before the meeting even began, I said that it would be a challenge for Zelensky to get through that meeting in a program that I did before the meeting took place, that Zelensky was probably, there was a real risk that Zelensky might blow up over the course of his meeting with Trump and Vance and the Europeans are afraid and worried that the same thing might happen again.

and that's why they've met Zelensky, they've briefed Zelensky, they've tried to explain to Zelensky what he should say when he meets Trump, but they understand that he is a loose cannon and they know perfectly well that there's a real risk, a very real risk, that the same thing will happen all over again unless they are there basically to control him. This is the real story. This is the real explanation of what. why all of these European leaders are coming, have invited themselves to this meeting in Washington, Washington today.

The meeting initially was envisaged by Trump as a meeting between himself and Zelensky, in which Trump was going to brief Zelensky about what happened in Alaska and tried to get Zelensky to become more realistic about the situation, the ultimate situation, and about the policies of the United States. And before we proceed and go into the details of this, there is something that I really do want to explain because there has been over the last 70 hours or so since the meeting in Alaska

ended a vast amount of noise. Obviously, Putin and Trump met in Alaska. They met for three hours. They had their delegations with them. Lavrov was there. Ushikov was there with Putin. Trump had Rubio and Witkov with him. And there were other officials, Scott Bessent and Siluanov and others, and they all met and they all had discussions. But the key thing that came out at the meeting,

the thing that we know that came out of the meeting, and it's what we said in the live stream, that we did on Saturday is that in the run-up to the meeting, there had been a lot of talk of the United States imposing sanctions and tariffs on Russia and its trading partners by the 8th of August unless there was a ceasefire in Ukraine. And we have no ceasefire in Ukraine, no tariffs and on Russia and instead the agreement of the United States, of the President himself, that rather than a ceasefire, the United States will work with Russia towards achieving a full peace agreement, a permanent peace agreement, bringing the entire conflict in Ukraine to an end. Now, that peace

agreement has not been negotiated. There have been three meetings in Istanbul, but they've not gone very far because the Russians set out their terms in those meetings, but the Ukrainians have not responded to them. They have rejected them outright. The Europeans up to now have rejected the Russian terms outright. The Americans, it seems, over the last couple of days and at the summit meeting in Alaska, have finally begun to respond to the Russian proposals, and it looks as if they have been making counter proposals of their own, and they've been bouncing ideas. The two sides have been bouncing ideas of each other. But obviously, the United States wants Ukraine to participate in these discussions,

to start responding to the Russian proposals, to start making counter proposals of its own, to start taking this process forward. In other words, to engage in a serious negotiations. And that is what Donald Trump wants Zelensky to start to do and what he wants to explain to Zelensky today that Zelensky needs to start to do. Zelensky doesn't want to do any of that. He is still demanding a ceasefire. He still wants a freezing of the conflict.

He still wants everything and is in return prepared. to give nothing, despite the fact that he is losing the war and despite the fact that he cannot continue the war without the continued assistance of the United States. The Europeans, who are a little more sophisticated than Zelensky, but not much, are gradually, very gradually, glacially, coming round to the fact that there will have to be a full peace agreement. But when you analyse what they've been saying, and there's been a whole procession of meetings by the Europeans since the summit meeting in Alaska, you had an emergency meeting of European ambassadors, which, by the way, achieved nothing.

you had a further follow-up meeting involving the key leaders of the big European states. So Ursula, Costa, the EU leaders, the EU's central leaders, Matt Stama. Stama, of course, isn't a member of the EU, but he's now acting to all intents and purposes as if he was. Maloney, Macron, they're all there and they all came out with a statement. and then they had another meeting yesterday, which is a so-called coalition of the willing meeting. And again, though they are gradually edging away from the whole ceasefire idea and frozen conflict idea, they are now trying to get Trump to commit as part of a final deal with Russia to all of the things that the Europeans have always demanded. territorial integrity for Ukraine, no recognition of Crimea as part of Russia, no concessions on the

parts of territories that Ukraine is losing in the war. They want the pathway for Ukraine to join NATO to remain open. They want the pathway for Ukraine to join the EU also to remain open. The Russians have been increasingly skeptical about this, but so far, Putin himself has not said anything about the Russians opposing it. Other Russian leaders have done. They want unrestricted size of the Ukrainian army. They want even a reassurance force, a European reassurance force to be sent to Ukraine. And they continue to demand, well, if Ukraine cannot enter NATO.

and they pretend to accept that Ukraine cannot enter NATO, though in practice and in reality they don't, because of course they issued a statement saying that Ukraine should ultimately be able to enter NATO. But they say that in the meantime, Ukraine should be given NATO-style security guarantees, not negotiated with Russia, of course, because we'll come to the whole question of security guarantees in a moment, not negotiated with Russia, provided by the Western states, which of course means the United States, because everybody knows that the Europeans collectively and individually cannot give Ukrainian

security guarantees that are worth more than a hill of beans. but security guarantees which do not involve Russia, do not involve China, do not involve any other state at all. They're exclusively Western guarantees that are clearly intended to be a pathway for Ukraine eventually to enter NATO. So when you unpack it all, when you put together what Zelensky is saying, he still insists on a frozen conflict, a ceasefire along the current front lines, ultimate NATO entry and all of that. When you put that together with what the Europeans are saying, you could see that the Europeans and the Ukrainians are not budging an inch.

They are making all the same demands that they always have done ever since Trump became president. Of course, in Biden's time, it was even worse than that because they didn't really need to make demands then, because at that time, the objective was defeating Russia. They now realize they can't defeat Russia, but the demands that they are continued to make out of these negotiations are such, which if Russia were to accept them, which of course it won't, it would amount to the same thing. So the real objective of the Europeans and of the Ukrainians coming out of this meeting today is to get Trump to make commitments to them about security guarantees, about territory, about all of those kinds of things. that will wreck negotiations and will make Trump pivot away from a situation where he's

finally talking with the Russians and bouncing ideas of them and talking about a negotiated solution to one way he completely recommits to Ukraine so that the war that the Europeans and the Ukrainians remain committed to goes on. That's the story of the last 70 hours. No, that's the story of the last three years, three plus years for the Europeans. For the Europeans, it's all about keeping the United States invested in Europe. And for them, that vehicle is Ukraine. That's why it's important for them to keep the conflict going.

Yes. That's what it's all about. It's that simple. And their fear is that the United States is going to walk away from Ukraine. That's their fear. And so that's what the security guarantees are all about. It's all about keeping the United States invested in Ukraine. You know, Maloney floated this idea about three months ago.

Yes. She said that what we should offer Ukraine is NATO without NATO. That's what she said. And Maloney's going to be there. So, I mean, that's the plan. Keep the United States in Europe. And the only way that the Europeans can keep the United States invested in Europe and keep the grift going is Project Ukraine needs to.

to keep going. And for Zelensky, it's about him remaining in power. Yes. That's what it is for him. So, you know, they're more than willing Zelensky and the Europeans. They're more than willing to sacrifice Ukraine to keep the war going for another year or two if they can achieve their goals of staying in power and of keeping the United States bog down in Ukraine, which meets bond down in Europe. Yes. That's it. It's that simple. This is absolutely correct. Now, can I just, before, we get into the points that you've just made, which are the key ones. I think that's one thing I want to say. What you've outlined is the ultimate European objective to keep the United States invested in and committed to Europe, which the United States doesn't ultimately any longer want to be, at least to the extent that it has been up to now.

wants to start to pivot away from Europe towards Asia and perhaps the Middle East. And they've been talking about doing this since the late 2000s, even in Obama's time. But the Europeans want to keep them centrally focused on Europe so that the whole project of the EU and of NATO can continue as it always has with full American backing behind it. Ultimately, what goes on in the Pacific for the Europeans is not just a secondary concern. It is a tertiary or even less concern because their own jobs, their own projects in Europe depend on the Americans being fully committed and being there. So that's the central thing.

But I just do want to touch on two details. Firstly, about the security guarantees. You're absolutely right. Maloney came up with this idea of Ukraine in NATO, but not in NATO, given all exactly the same provisions as NATO, but somehow being outside NATO. It is a ridiculous idea, by the way. But it has become muddled with the Russian proposal,

and it was a Russian proposal back in 2020. that Ukraine be given security guarantees. And the security guarantees were in fact painstakingly negotiated by the Russians and the Ukrainians at that time. And they were a key part of the Istanbul agreement that the Russians and the Ukrainians initialed in April 22. And they were very extensive and they were very carefully thought out. And one of the key guarantor powers is, of course, Russia, the United States and Britain and the Western powers were also to be guarantors. And so was China and Brazil and a certain number of other countries. I forget which ones. The point about those security guarantees is that they were

security guarantees. They were not an alliance, which, what Maloney is proposing is, is what Baloney is proposing is not really a security guarantee. It is an alliance. It is a full-fledged alliance between the United States and Ukraine, in which the United States, ultimately, because it is the United States, pledges to come to the defense of Ukraine in any future conflict. That is the fundamental difference between the security guarantees that the Russians were thinking about back in 2022, which was to be in all the various countries agreeing certain guarantees for Ukraine. And the Ukraine has accepted it at the time and what Maloney and Co. are proposing now. Now, the thing to say about the security guarantees that the Russians proposed in April 2022 is that Ukraine at that time accepted them.

The reason the Istanbul agreement of April 22 never happened is because the Biden administration and Boris Johnson refused. to give them. They said to Ukraine, if you go ahead with Istanbul, if you agree these provisions in Istanbul, Crimea goes to Russia, the status of Donbass is going to be resolved in future negotiations. You stay outside NATO and you accept limits on the size of your armed forces. If you agree to all of these things, we will not agree to you having security guarantees from us, which would have, of course, left Ukraine with security guarantees provided only by Russia and its friends. And that was not something that Zelensky at that time wanted to accept. So that was what happened in 2022. We are seeing this whole situation, security guarantees, cooked up again.

in order to keep the United States involved in the war, when the Russians are talking about security guarantees, obviously, they mean something completely different. And a senior Russian official, Mikhail Ulianov, who is a senior Russian diplomat, has just reiterated all of those basic points that I've made today in certain comments that he has just made in Vienna. So we are talking about two completely different things. And it is important to understand. that the United States will not give security guarantees to Ukraine, and no European country will give security guarantees to Ukraine in any form, whilst the ongoing conflict is continuing,

because if they did, that would oblige them to involve themselves in the war against Russia. And that means because the Russians will not want to give, what will not want to see Ukraine, given those guarantees, that the war will continue, which is of course precisely what the Europeans want. This is the story about the security guarantees. No, the security guarantees, just to wrap it up from the European side of things, when they're talking about security guarantees, they're talking about some sort of NATO in Ukraine.

And that goes against the Russian root causes right there. I mean, ultimately, that's what it is. And the Russians know this. Everyone knows this. Everybody knows this, exactly. And the point is it has to be negotiated anyway. And the Russians are saying, and Trump has accepted that all of this has to be negotiated in proper negotiations. And that will be the place where security guarantees are properly discussed. And the Russians have said that the starting point in negotiations is Istanbul, what was agreed in Istanbul in 2022. This is why I call the Russian proposals that we've been talking about over the last year. year, Istanbul plus, because it starts with Istanbul. And that is what contains the provisions about security guarantees.

As I said, there's an enormous amount of confusion about this. But we should not be, you know, we should not let this fog of words lead us away from what the Europeans are trying to do. They want security guarantees, which is an alliance. which is intended to bring Ukraine ultimately into NATO. That's what the Europeans are talking about. I think they understand perfectly well that the Russians won't accept it. And that's why they are making this proposal to wreck this whole process.

And this morning, by the way, even as we're making this program, they're again talking for more sanctions and terrorists against Russia if it doesn't capitulate and accept all of these two. months that they are insisting on. Yeah, they want to wreck the process. They either want to trick the Russians, which is not going to happen. They want to trick Trump, trick the Russians, not going to happen. And if they can't do that, then they're going for wrecking the entire process, which Putin

warned about in Alaska. And for the Europeans, I'll even take it a step further and say that the Europeans, even if Ukraine were to lose in 2028, let's say, if they could drag this war up to 2028 for them, that would be the aim that they have. Because for them, can they keep the war going and wait out the Trump presidency until they get to a new president? That's probably what they're thinking. Let's figure out a way to wreck this process.

out a way to get Trump back on side, let's figure out a way to keep the war going, at least until the new elections. And then we'll be done with this Trump White House. We'll have some new president. Maybe it will be a Democrat, who knows. And if that's the case, then we're in the clear. That's part of what's going through the European side. And if Ukraine is, if Ukraine is gone by that point, who cares about Ukraine? We got NATO. We got the EU project still ongoing with the full backing of the United States. And the United States' commitments remain the same. And the money flow to NATO and the EU continues as it always has. And everything is as it always was. This is what the European objectives ultimately. We focus on Moldova. We focus on Armenia,

on Georgia, and we'll get the next EU project, the next NATO project. Well, better still, if we have tensions over Armenia or Moldova. Ukraine is gone, but the next tensions are over over Moldova and Armenia, well, then that plays again to a wonderful narrative about the Russian threat coming to conquer the whole of Europe. And that's why, of course, the United States must remain involved. Why it must continue to commit itself indefinitely to the defense of Europe, regardless of what goes on everywhere else in the world and of the accumulating problems in the United States itself. Just sinister. Absolutely. Sinister. It is absolutely sinister.

It is sinister and cynical beyond any, any words. I mean, a Churchill or a de Gaulle, the two leaders that these people invoke all the time, would never have accepted or been party to any of this. I know the histories of these men very, very, very well. By now, they would have been in Moscow. And they would be talking to Putin, and they would be telling Zelensky, look, you know, this has to end. You've got to go. We can't have this.

And they would be seeking a new Europe in which there was a proper detente and reprossement with Russia. It was, after all, de Gaulle, who Macron constantly invokes, by the way, who spoke about a Europe for the Atlantic to the rules. All right, let's wrap up the video talking about the options ahead for Trump. I think he has three options. The first option is to convince Zelensky and the Europeans to get on board with whatever was agreed on and will be agreed on between the United States and Russia, because we really don't have the details of what they agreed on. We have an understanding that it's Istanbul plus Jewish. 2024 root causes, but, okay, we don't have all the details, obviously. But that's option number one. Trump gets them to agree. Option number two is they don't agree. They reject Trump. They refuse to

decide with the United States, no matter what leverage Trump places on them, because Trump has all the cards. The United States has all the cards, and they can put a tremendous amount of pressure on leverage on the Europeans and on Ukraine. But still, they say, no, we're not going to go with And the United States walks away. Or option number three is Trump flips. He flip-flops and he goes back to Kellogg and Lindsay Graham and neocon mode. He goes back to neocan mode. Let's escalate.

I'm upset with Putin. I'm disgusted with Putin. Let's get weapons to Ukraine. Maybe a provocation. Maybe they successfully get a provocation going, the collective West, the deep state. They tried with the Kerch Bridge the other day to blow it up. So maybe they get some sort of provocation as well to go along with Trump's flip-flopping or to persuade Trump to back off with the negotiations with Russia and he escalates once again

in Ukraine. I mean, those are the three options pretty much, right? I mean, the United States could sell weapons. They could walk away and sell weapons to the Europeans. Vance hinted at that in an interview. But we all know that that's not really a viable path forward for the Europeans or for Ukraine. The waiting list for the key U.S. weapons is five to seven years, in some cases, at least for the Patriots. So the whole selling weapons to NATO is not a plan at all.

So, I mean, what are your thoughts? What is Trump most likely to do? What should he do? How do you see this thing playing out? Well, I will tell you what he should do. I personally do not think that the Europeans and the Ukrainians are going to commit to this proposal. They will try and, they may pretend that they are, but I can't see Zelensky changing his stance. He's made his positions completely clear.

He accepts absolutely nothing. He's still talking about a ceasefire, a freezing of the conflict. I've never known Zelensky to go into a meeting and to change his position in the kind of way that Trump would expect him to. So I can't see Zelensky doing that. I can't see the Europeans sincerely. abandoning any of their objectives. So I think that they will never give the kind of commitments that if I was in Trump's shoes, I would be demanding of them. I mean, if it was me in this meeting, which of course it isn't, but if it was me in this meeting, I would say to Zelensky,

clearly in this meeting, are you prepared to give up Crimea or not? Are you prepared to withdraw from Dombas or not? Are you prepared to give up NATO membership or not? And if you start stalking, I'd cut him off. And I'd say, look, I want those questions answered clearly and simply. And if the Europeans come along and talk about security guarantees, I would say to them, don't be ridiculous. I've just agreed with Zelensky and I'm just telling you now that we are not going to make those kind of commitments to Ukraine.

And that is the end of that discussion. Unfortunately, I don't expect Trump to do this. And this is the trouble. what he will more likely seek to do is he will try to meet the Europeans and the Ukrainians halfway. And he'll already come along and say, well, you know, this security guarantee idea is a really good idea. And maybe we can sell it to the Russians or maybe we've already sold it to the Russians. And yes, I'm going to go along with you on this deployment force and all of that that you're talking about too. and, you know, well, I talked to Putin and I passed this by him.

He didn't reject it outright. And now that we can move forward to the negotiations, let's do that. And I'm afraid this is my concern. That's what he's probably going to do. And he will be onto the slippery slope. And in a month's time or a week's time or whenever, we will find ourselves back in the default position that you were saying, in which he ends up essentially agreeing with what the Europeans and the Ukrainians are all

insisting on and the whole negotiation process is wrecked. But assuming he takes the stance that I said, in which case the meetings shouldn't go on for very long, by the way, if he explains it all to the Europeans and to the Ukrainians, so that look, the United States cannot reasonably be asked to do more. It has done an awful lot, but it's depleted its arsenals. As you all know, these tariffs and sanctions that you are demanding, which go far beyond what even the Biden administration was prepared to do, are counterproductive and will not make the Russians change their stance.

Rubio, by the way, has just said this. This interesting interview that he gave about sanctions, he said Russia's already sanctioned to its eyeballs and it's not made any difference. Why expect that more sanctions are going to change things? They're not going to work. So let's put aside sanctions. Let's accept the fact that Ukraine is losing the war. Let's do this deal with the Russians.

And the Russians are not being impossible. And they're not being unreasonable. And of course, if the Ukrainians and the Europeans then dig in, which I expect they will, then this is the moment. And we go back to what we were talking about in that. live stream with Robert Barnes, which we did in a last week. This is the moment when Trump has the exit ramp, he walks away. It's the exit ramp has been given to him. The Russians have explained the situation. They've shown themselves willing to discuss their terms with the Americans.

The Europeans have shown no flexibility at all. Zelensky is showing no flexibility at all. They are not addressing the realities. The United States has done all that you can. The United States ends its role in the diplomacy. If the Europeans wanted to buy weapons from the Americans, they're welcome to do so and to continue the war by themselves. But sanctions and tariffs and all of that really aren't going to help.

and the United States isn't going to waste time. I mean, that's probably, that's the optimal outcome from Trump's point of view. Whether he's prepared to do that, I don't know. Yeah, it sounds to me like what you're saying is that Trump is not going to give a hard stop today. He's not going to tell the Europeans, he's not going to tell the Europeans like a real leader executive would do, which is what he should do, to just finally tell them, look, if you don't accept. what we have going on with Russia, we're out. Today, today we're out. It sounds like he's going to be influenced by Stubb, who's his golfing buddy. He's going to be influenced by Macron,

who he likes, Maloney, who he likes, Ursula, who he doesn't like, who he owns. We saw that in Scotland. Merch's okay. I mean, obviously these people are there to influence Trump, right? Right, Rute, who kisses up to him nonstop. Right? So it sounds to me like what you're saying is that Trump is going to say, okay, guys. Yeah. You know, I'm getting along with Putin.

I want a final agreement to this. I want a deal. I don't want to ceasefire. But I see where you guys are coming from. Yes, one. And so let me see if I can take your concerns to Russia. And then we're going to get into this frustration loop again. And then Kellogg's going to start whispering in his.

ear and Lindsay Graham is going to start whispering in his ear and then Melania is going to start crying again about images that she's seeing on CNN, whatever. And he's going to say, I'm disgusted with Putin. I'm upset with Putin and all the, I mean, it sounds like we get it to this loop. And then maybe a month or two down the line, when Ukraine continues to collapse and the Russians continue to advance and things continue to get worse and worse for Ukraine, for Europe and for the United States, then Trump is going to... Yeah, revert back. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is this is the thing. This is the This is the thing.

He needs to put a hard stop to this today. Yeah, exactly. That's right. Now, there are some signs that he's thinking of doing that. I mean, firstly, there is that Rubio interview that I talked about. The sanctions and tariffs are a stupid idea that they're not going to have the effect on the Russians that people think they are. Far from making the Russians want to end the war, they're more likely to convince the Russians that the thing they need to do is to win it. So, I mean, that was what Rubio said. So, and of course, we've had a

post written by Trump on true social in which he says that it's really very simple. All Zelensky has to do in order to end the war is to accept that Crimea is Russian and to give up any idea of joining NATO. Now, that, that comment quite forcefully worded, that does suggest that Trump is at least in his own mind at some level considering a possible hard stop. But with Trump, as you rightly say, you never know. And unfortunately, I do think there's a real risk that instead of insisting on that hard stop today, which I think he can do

and I think he still has the political authority to do it instead of doing that he will again try to do what he always does meet the Europeans halfway as he thinks and get drawn into exactly the kind of loop

that you've just been talking about yeah that's what I think is going to most likely happen who knows maybe he will put a hard stop to it absolutely maybe he will I mean you know it's possible but um But I don't expect the Europeans or Zelensky to give any ground to day.

Well, you know, it depends on pressure. Not in any sincerity. I agree. I agree. But if Trump really wanted to put the squeeze on Zelensky and on the Europeans, it would be so easy to do. Robert mentioned it in our live stream. All he would have to tell Zelensky is you're under investigation. Yeah.

That's it. It's that simple. And for the Europeans, my God, he has all the leverage. when it comes to the Europeans. We saw it. We saw it in Scotland. Absolutely. So we know that he has all the leverage when it comes to the Europeans. So if he really wanted to put the squeeze on them, he could. He just doesn't want to want to put the pressure on Zelenskyen. He doesn't want to put the pressure on the Europeans, or at least the pressure that's needed to get them to say, fine, whatever you decide with Russia, there's nothing we can do. Exactly. That's the trouble.

Yeah, he doesn't want it. He doesn't want to go. there. Yes. Well, he hasn't done it. He hasn't done it up to now, not in any serious way. All right. We'll end the video there. The durand.com. We are on X and Telegram and Rumble and go to the Duran shop, pick up some merch like what we are wearing in this video update. There is a link in the description box down below. Take care.