The Duran Podcast - Zelensky interview. Preparing stab in the back narrative

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Zelensky interview. Preparing stab in the back narrative The Duran: Episode 1681

All right, Alexander, let's talk about the situation in Ukraine. An interesting interview that Zelensky gave to, I believe, Radha TV, which is the Ukraine Parliament TV channel. He said a lot of interesting things. What did Olensky say? He talked about invading Russia, I guess. He talked about shaping the conflict as some sort of Israeli scenario. He talked about elections. in 2024. What do you make of the interview that he gave? And what do you think he's trying to tell

the people of the collective West and the people of Ukraine? Yes, I think what he is, the first thing to say is that he wasn't talking like a man who is riding to victory. Now, he has the first thing to say. He's not talking any longer about a successful counteroffensive, a march to the sea. I mean, you know, he hasn't given up on any of that, not officially. But the kind of language that he's now using about a long war, about not attacking Russian territory, about those kind of things, suggests that he's gradually accepting that the offensive, this current offensive that Ukraine is still engaged in, is not going to succeed. He's also aware of the fact that Western's military support is going to start to fade away.

He's probably aware of the fact that political support is trying to fade away. and I saw this interview first and foremost as addressed to the Ukrainian people. So he's telling the Ukrainian people a number of things. Firstly, we're in for the long term. So we're going to go on fighting. We have to go on fighting. We're going to become like Israel. We're going to survive like Israel.

We're going to go on fighting indefinitely with all the weapons that we have. We're going to carry out another mobilisation soon. That's clearly now in the works. everybody can see this, but we're not going to deal the Russians a knockout blow this autumn. So the offensive isn't going to succeed, Crimea isn't going to be recaptured, any of those things. That's the first message that he is through this very complicated interview trying to convey to the Ukrainians. The second is that we don't have the resources to strike deep into Russia. and it's not a good idea for us even to try.

So let's not forget about trying to capture towns and villages in Belgarod region. Let's forget about launching deep missile strikes on Russian bases in deep inside Russia. We are not going to be able to expand the war. The politics of this, the international support for this isn't there. But of course the reality is it's actually different from that. Ukraine doesn't have the military ability to do this. Now, of course, he's not accepting that Crimea is Russian territory. He never will.

But you could start to see how this is perhaps starting to shift the ground about Crimea as well. That Crimea is also out of reach. And then he talked about Ukraine's industrial capacity. He said that, you know, Ukraine has massively increased weapons. production in July he gave no figures he said that he's authorized production of various types of missiles well we haven't seen much sign of that but again it seemed to me like he was preparing the Ukrainian people for the fact that there's going to be a reduction in military aid from the West so he's again talking about

self-reliance self-reliance in terms of domestic production self-reliance in terms of manpower. He talked about conserving manpower. He said we can't go on being profligate. We can't go on throwing away lives of people. We have to conserve them.

That's what we need to do in order to be able to prolong this war for as long as we possibly can. My overall, the overwhelming impression is that he's written off the offensive. He understands the offensive

isn't going to succeed. He's preparing Ukraine for a defensive strategy holding out as long as possible. He doesn't want to negotiate. And he's also preparing Ukrainians for the possibility that there's going to be a winding down of military support from the West. The one thing he's not prepared to do is to enter into negotiations with the Russians. But that was my overall take of this interview.

Very interesting interview indeed, as you said, and one that marks a decisive change of turn. How do you explain what Olensky said yesterday with some of the media reports coming out yesterday as well, for example, Forbes, David Axe, once again talking about Ukraine gaining momentum in the counteroffensive? The Guardian had an interesting article on the UK. I guess he could be called now the UK mastermind behind

the new and improved offensive that has been planned out 11 days ago, Radican, Tony, Tony Radican, and he's the brains now behind this new offensive, which is being launched or is going to be launched. But to be fair, there are Collective West mainstream media outlets, which are sounding the alarm and saying the counteroffensive is going nowhere. It's a failure. But it seems like the last day or two, especially coming from the UK, it seems, there's like an uptick in hope that, you know, we've got Urojani, where we've liberated, they're saying that they've liberated Rappatina. We're gaining momentum now, and the plan towards Melita Pole is still on the table.

And here we have this great military planner who's gotten all the forces together in Poland, and there's a new strategy, and we're going to make a new strategy. and we're going to make this happen. How do you, I'm just curious to see how you square Eletsky's words with what we've been seeing from the media over the last day or two. Not all the media, but some of the media. Not all of the media and predominantly, it must be said immediately the British and some parts of the European media. But of course, the British are much more invested in this war than the United States is. And I think that's the first thing to say here, that the United States always has the option of walking away from these kind of

conflicts. It would be a major political and geopolitical defeat for them, but the United States would survive as a great power. I mean, it is a great power. Of course it would survive as a great power. It would still maintain important alliances in Europe. It could go on and proceed from there. For Britain, it's a different thing, because Britain has seen a whole succession of major setbacks in recent years, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, elsewhere. The British military has been exposed as basically a shadow force down to 40 tanks. So their attempt to retain relevance and importance and meaning has been through this war in Ukraine. And they've invested in it massively, massively in terms of such resources as they have,

but also psychologically and politically and emotionally. So they're aware of all of these rumblings that are going on in the United States. They're aware of the problems with the offensive. And of course they're also aware of the doubts that are starting to develop within Ukraine itself. And what they want to do is they want to say, look, let's not give up now. We are making progress. It may not be great progress. It may not be very fast progress.

But we've got a brilliant planner, Admiral Radican, who's, you know, taking charge of everything. We got the Ukrainians finally listening to the advice that we are making. We finally captured Rabatina. In fact, I have to say this. This morning, the Ukrainians announced the Ukrainian Deputy Defence Minister Hannah Malia said that they have captured Rabatino. This is this village of 480. people that they've been trying to capture for two and a half months. Within hours of that,

in fact, I think minutes of that, string of reports from the Russians saying, no, no, Rabotino still contested. There's a major Ukrainian attack on Rabatino last night. 80 armored vehicles deployed there. They were able to press forward into the center of Rabatino, but we pushed the back. The Ukrainians have suffered heavy losses. We still control the southern area of Rabotino, the central parts of Rabotino continue to be grey zone. And as the hours have passed, we're getting more and more

reports to this effect from more and more different Russian sources, which suggest that it is probably true. So, you know, this great victory at Rabatino that we've been hearing about, it hasn't been achieved. But anyway, the point is

the British do not want to admit that this whole operation has failed. Because if they do, they're exposed, they are once again involved in a failure. People will start to say, what is the international weight and importance of Britain? And of course, deep down, I suspect the British are also seriously concerned that if this whole thing ends in a debacle, given the enormous role they've played in getting the Americans involved, in getting the Europeans involved,

in a line with the neocons in the United States, they're worried that they will be blamed by important people in Washington for having led them along. I read a very interesting piece by Gordon Hahn, who's a really good scholar, writes wonderfully well about Ukrainian matters. And he says that already there is criticism in Ukraine itself,

among some people in Kiev, about the fact that the world, is thinking now the US is thinking of you know downplaying its

support is quietly negotiating with the Russians and there's real anger in Kiev people are saying

look the British letters here they played an instrumental role in getting us to walk out of the Istanbul

agreements and look what's happened so the Ukrainians might be preparing to blame Britain

the Americans might be prepared to blame Britain. The Europeans conceivably might end up framing Britain as well. So the British feel themselves exposed, so they can't quite give up hope that this offensive is going to succeed after all. Zelensky's words tell a completely different story. And he's the man on the scene. Here's the president of Ukraine. He should know. Yeah, I have to tell you. When I read that Guardian piece,

on Radican. Obviously, it was a PR post. That's clear. But I don't know if they're building him up in order to build him up because they feel like he can make, he can change the tide of the conflict and make it a success, or if they're building him up in order to knock him down. I mean, I was kind of like,

they seem to be building up this guy a lot. I would be worried if I was him because he made me the fall guy. Yeah. I would be very well. worried if I was him. I would say by all accounts, by the way, he's actually a, you know, a good, decent man, but I mean, he's way out of his depth here. And note something else about him. I mean, he's an admiral. This is a land war. I mean, you know, what exactly is he doing here, which is going to make it possible for him to bring all the pieces together? I mean, this is

presumably outside his particular area of expertise. So, I mean, you know, it's, not perhaps the most ideal person to be running a land war. So I would be worried for him. And I'm sure by the way he is. He makes a good target, though. He makes a very good target. He makes a good target to pin this on. How exactly, you mentioned that that Zelensky is talking about being self-reliant, self-sufficient. They're going to, they're going to build production plants. They're going to manufacture Swedish weapons and German weapons and all of these European countries are signing deals to create weapons production facilities in Ukraine. But outside of those contracts, and that's all we have now, I don't even know if we have

contracts, to be quite honest, outside of the rhetoric that they're going to be weapon production facilities inside of Ukraine, how exactly does Ukraine become self-sufficient when their entire economy, if you even want to call it that, is based on handouts from the United States? If the United States pulls the plug on financing Ukraine, there is no government, there is no economy, and Europe can't afford Ukraine. That's very clear. I mean, the latest statements from Oliv Schultz indicate that Germany is not going to even be able to subsidize their people and their businesses for electricity expenses this winter. Yes. How exactly is this self-sufficiency going to be achieved if this is indeed? what's going to happen to Ukraine?

Well, it's a complete fantasy. I mean, the only way that could happen is if the war was called off, if the Russians were persuaded to stop the war so that, you know, they weren't launching missile strikes and fighting Ukraine. So again, I mean, in itself,

this is an absolute, it's another narrative that Zelensky is spinning. It's what he does. Now, you know, I have to say it reminds me. I mean, more and more of this, more and more of this rhetoric and no one doesn't want to press analogies too far that it is starting to remind me more and more

of the kind of things that people were saying in Germany in the last months of the Second World War from about December, November, December, 1944 or right up to the end, which is we're going to continue fighting, we're going to be able to fight all by ourselves, we're going to call up all the people, the remaining people of our country,

and they did, by the way, they called up hundreds of thousands of older men and teenage boys and even some girls to fight. I know one of the girls who was called her. I knew, well, she's passed away, but I knew her. She was a member of my wife's family and I had some very interesting discussions with her about all of that. And there was talk about wonder weapons, that all the wonder weapons were going to come in. And there was going to be huge increases in production of weapons. A lot of this kind of rhetoric at that time. And of course, what it was all intended to do

because the people who were behind all of that actually knew the truth. By this point, they understood that it was impossible, that sooner or later it fairly sued, the whole thing would collapse. But what they were trying to do was to sustain the war, to keep people fighting, to keep hope aligned. that even with everything closing in, somehow Germany would be able to come through.

And it seems to me this is exactly what Zelensky is doing now. He's talking about huge increases in arms production, which is the Germans were talking about, huge increases in arms production. We see the call-up of hundreds of thousands of people who are going to turn the tide of the war. And of course, that's exactly what Zelensky is talking about. He's talking about a long war, about, you know, Ukraine becoming the new Israel and, you know, living indefinitely in kind of all conditions. And again, it's trying to give people hope, even as the situation deteriorates. And that, of course, brings us to the perhaps most interesting question of all, which is, what exactly is he's long-term plan?

I mean, we know about the German leaders that they didn't really have a long-term plan. They were keeping the war together. They were clinging to the idea that the Allies would fall out with each other. And they were still hoping for that right up to the very last moment. And of course it didn't happen. But they were clinging to that kind of hope. But to the extent that they had a plan, one gets the sense that the German leaders basically more important for them

was to keep the war going and then lose. and have a kind of twilight of the gods moment, which is what they achieved. But is that what Zelensky is up to? I don't think so. I suspect that at some level, he's still hoping that something might happen in Russia that might turn things around.

Or alternatively, there could be the starting work about a stab in the back type of legend that Ukraine was doing very well, fighting the war. Its offensive was actually gaining ground. It was building up its defenses, strengthening its industrial economy, and if things in the end fail. It's not because of Ukraine losing the ability to continue the struggle, but because political and economic support from the West collapsed. And, And I can see, unfortunately, that some people in Ukraine might believe that.

Some people in the West might believe that as well. And amongst the people who will probably want to believe it are the British. Yeah, but how does that help Zelensky? I mean, okay, they can push the stab in the back narrative, but it's not going to better his position at all. Maybe he's hoping that this will put the banderites at ease. Maybe he's trying to say, you know, it wasn't my fault. Banderites, don't come after me.

It was it was the West that betrayed us. Maybe, but I don't think that's going to work. You know, do you also believe, as you answer that question, do you also believe that you're getting the same type of discussion in the collective West as well as to what's the plan afterwards? because as you were explaining the situation with this interview with Zelensky and the financing being a question mark as to how Ukraine is going to make it through this period, it was a Bloomberg article a couple of days ago where they interviewed Justin Trudeau and Trudeau made a very interesting statement. And he's been one of the people that's been very supportive of Zeletsky.

I mean, he's invested a lot in his friendship with Zelensky. He said that even if the U.S. cuts off the funding, after the elections. He said, after the elections, if the Republicans win, we're going to continue to give money to Ukraine. He said, as long as it takes, we're going to support Ukraine. So do you think that there's also some discussion taking place among the collective West elite as to whether they're going to drop Ukraine, where they're going to continue to fund Ukraine, what happens as the counteroffensive collapses? I mean, they don't seem to have a plan either. No, they're making it up as they go along. They are making it up as it goes along. But you can

see what's happening because Justin Trudeau is every bit as invested in this conflict as the British shark. He's been one of the most fervid supporters of Ukraine and of course he also has to consider that there are supporters of Ukraine in his government like Mr Freeland who have you know historic reasons to be committed to Ukraine I mean she has a Ukrainian background and there's large numbers of people of Ukrainian extraction in Canada who are important voters So he has to think all about that. But you can see what Trudeau is also doing. Firstly, by saying we will go on supporting Ukraine,

as long as it takes, we don't need the United States. So that is, in a way, trying to shape the political debate in the United States itself. Saying to people in the United States, well, we're here, we're going on to support Ukraine. You may have your doubts. We don't have those doubts. And Trudeau may be hoping that by saying, that, that will reinforce people like Victoria Newland who want to go on, continuing to support Ukraine indefinitely. It will give support to them. They'll be able to say, well, the Canadians

aren't giving up, the British aren't giving up, nor should we. But of course, the other thing is, and this is perhaps where we come back to the stab in the back philosophy, because of course everybody knows that Canada can't replace the United States. It's got what, the 10th of the population that the United States does. Its economy is nowhere near as big as that of the US, not, I mean, not remotely so. The Europeans can't do it by themselves. Yosea Borel, by the way,

clearly sees the writing on the wall. He's made it clear that he's not going to remain high representative for much longer. Another man, another victim of the Olensky curse. You know, they're all gradually starting to disappear, walk away from the scene. all know that all this talk about, you know, then going on by themselves without the Americans is just nonsense. I mean, it's absolute rubbish. But you can see again that talking in this way,

we will continue, even if the Americans don't, it's trying to shift the blame onto the Americans, onto the Republicans specifically. So again, it's the cultivation, if you like, of the stab in the back narrative. The Ukrainians are up to it, Zelensky's, I think, prepared. in the ground for it within Ukraine. And I think some of the Western leaders who are most exposed, the British eventually, Trudeau now, some people in Germany,

Birbock and Harbeck and people like that. You can already see where it's going. And that's what they're up to. Now, but of course, Zelensky himself, what is he going to do? Well, I'm not sure what he thinks about his own future. but just saying there have been reports that he's now brought himself another great villa in Egypt of all places

and one does wonder whether perhaps that isn't such a complete coincidence that he's making these comments even as he's making all of those other comments which seem to be preparing the Ukrainian people for well a course of the war a failure of the war that he's looking at to blame on someone else. Yeah. The smart collective West leaders are going to resign now. The smart ones will resign now. So Borrell may not be as dumb as we think he is.

He's like, I'm out of here in 2020. Well, indeed. Well, in fairness to Borrell, I mean, he was one of the first political leaders in the West who was highlighting the problems with ammunition. the fact that Ukraine can't get by without more ammunition. And he actually said at one point that unless we can sort out this problem, then the point will come when Ukraine will lose and it could lose within weeks. I mean, it could happen very fast.

And those problems with ammunition have never been solved. And there's been a long article in the national interest, which basically says so. I mean, it's been an issue we've been talking about for months on this program. Brian Belletti has talked about it. Alex Vashina has talked about it. Borel was the first political leader to talk about it, and we see that that problem has never been solved. It couldn't be solved, though.

I mean, he can highlight it, but it wasn't something you could solve within a day or two or a week or a month. No, no. It takes years to solve something like that. It takes years to solve something like that, but that's the single thing that. neocons of all persuasions find it is impossible to understand. They have this sort of outlook that all you need to do is press a button

and what you want will appear. It doesn't work like that. It didn't work like that, by the way, in the Second World War. You know, we all hear about this gigantic US industrial miracle in the United States in the Second World War, which happened.

But of course, it required enormous amount of organisation before the civilian economy. could be mobilized in that kind of way. And then, of course, at that time, the United States had an industrial base, a manufacturing base, which made up a bigger proportion of global manufacturing

than China's does today. So, you know, which is not the case any longer. So, you know, but neocons never talk about these things. That's not something they worry about. And they didn't think, they didn't think about them. the war began and to a great extent, I suspect they're still in denial about them now. Yeah, just a final thought to wrap up the video. I bet you that the leadership of the EU, I bet you Trudeau, I bet you Zelensky, they're all hoping, in a strange way, in an odd way,

they're all hoping that Trump wins the election in 2024 because then they can just blame it all. on Trump. That would be their easy way out. If Trump would win, then they can say, well, we lost to Russia because Trump. And there'll be a large percentage of the population that will buy into that narrative. You know, they may be saying this is our way out of this. If we can just last until the presidential elections, then we may have a way to explain away our loss. So I think what really worries them

is a collapse from now until the presidential election. That's what's really worrying to them because they won't have anybody to scapegoat this on. Absolutely, and you're absolutely correct. And can I just say, if you're talking about Britain, there's been a whole series of articles now appearing in the British media, particularly in the Daily Telegraph, which is of all of the newspapers, the one closest to the British government, which have started to predict that Donald Trump is going to win the 2024 election. I mean, they're actually now increasingly saying that. And they're saying that in a way that makes you feel that they wanted to happen.

And you're absolutely right. It solves for many of these European leaders and for some of these neocom people in the United States. Their problem. They can blame it all on the bad orange man. We would have won if it hadn't been for him. He's the person who's created all this trouble. The man who really, you know, is still, you know, works for Putin. We haven't ever been able to establish how he does it, but clearly he does.

He's got this affinity for authoritarian leaders. He's the person who's going to backstab Ukraine. And you can see that whole narrative is now being prepared. Zelensky is doing it. The British will probably start to do it in a more elaborate way before very long. And, of course, Trude is also up to it as well. It's a very easy narrative for them to create. Okay.

Yeah. I'm going to just finish by saying one thing. The one place where I think that narrative will fail to take hold is in the one country which really matters, which is the United States. I think that in the United States, people will see through it. even people who are hostile to Donald Trump, all you have to do is to read the American media and the kind of comments and commentaries that are now appearing one after the other.

There is a flood of these articles appearing, and the fact that they're appearing in the way that they are suggests that they're being inspired by people within the administration and that there is increasing amount of discontent with the road that the U.S. near cons have taken the United States onto. So, and I think amongst the wider American public, you can see the polls now moving increasingly to deep skepticism about this war.

So, you know, the British can say it's the Americans and there's the bad orange man. The Canadians can do it. The Ukrainians, of course, will do it. Some people in Germany will. But in America itself, that is not going to gain traction. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. Some people will buy into it, but the majority of the population will say, no, this was this was Biden's doing. Yeah. Okay, we'll end the video there.

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