The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #13 Featuring Registered Dietician Jen Scheinman! THE MITOCHONDRIA and UROLITHIN A EPISODE!! The role of mitochondria in cellular health, In...

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Tune in to The Dylan Gemelli Podcast featuring Registered Dietician and Timeline Nutrition Expert Jen Scheinman! Get ready to be educated on cellular health and MITOCHONDRIA!! There is a deep dive into the role of mitochondria in cellular health, Learn everything you could want to know about Urolithin A, proven studies, benefits, and why it is such a breakthrough! There is a discussion on the impact of gut health on mitochondria as well as the role diet can play. Learn about Timeline Nutrition's MITOPURE and the amazing benefits it has proven to provide and SO MUCH MORE!! DO NOT MISS THIS EPISODE!!!   To PURCHASE MITOPURE visit Dylan's landing page and use code DYLAN10 to save!! https://www.timeline.com/promotions/dylangemelli     Check out Jen's homepage NEXT JEN HEALTH https://nextjenhealth.com/   Follow Jen on social media! Instagram: @jenscheinman_nutrition/ Facebook @jenscheinmanRDN   ______________________________________________________________________ Today's episode is sponsored by Apollo Neuro!   Get the Apollo Neuro for $90 OFF!! USE CODE GEMELLI to save https://apolloneuro.com/gemelli _______________________________________________________________________________ To PURCHASE MITOPURE visit Dylan's landing page and use code DYLAN to save 20% OFF!! https://shop.timeline.com/DYLAN     TONUM supplements for the MIND AND BODY!   USE CODE "DYLAN" to save!!  https://www.tonum.com/DYLAN     THE BREAKTHROUGH MIMIO HEALTH FASTING MIMETIC SUPPLEMENT!  20% OFF with code Gemelli  https://mimiohealth.sjv.io/c/6588260/3323599/30611     TRULY Increase Your NAD LEVELS with WONDERFEEL NMN: https://getwonderfeel.com/?utm_source=DylanGemelli&utm_medium=podcast     MESCREEN: The world's first and only at home mitochondrial efficiency test Save $100 with CODE   DYLAN   https://mescreen.com/cart/47561239626013:1?discount=&ref=DYLAN       HIRE DYLAN ON THE MINNECT APP HERE: expert.minnect.com/@DylanGemelli     Follow Dylan on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok @dylangemelli and PLEASE SUBSCRIBE and leave reviews!!   MAKE SURE TO GO TO DYLAN'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL for MORE video content!!    https://www.youtube.com/@DylanGemelliBiohacking Email Dylan for booking, collaborations and/or to apply for the Dylan Gemelli Podcast [e-mail] Visit Dylan's Homepage https://dylangemelli.com

Today's episode is sponsored by Apollo Neuro. Apollo is the leading doctor recommended wearable technology. Apollo's award-winning smart vibes AI works effortlessly behind the scenes, automatically integrating into your life to deliver gentle, personalized vibrations that activate your vagus nerve, helping you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up balanced, focused, and ready each day. Not only that, but the Apollo Neuro is the first and only wearable that improves your HRV. Apollo is effortless. Simply wear it throughout the day and night and let it do the work

for you. It's safe for anyone and everyone with no side effects and is the only wearable that can be worn anywhere on your body. Optimal health requires both the mind and body to be in line and Apollo is the key to establishing that connection. Check the description below to save $90 with my special discount. Take control over your health today with Apollo Neuro. All right, everybody, Welcome back to the Dylan Jubelli podcast. Now, if you're watching, you can see by my mitochondria shirt that that's probably what's going to be the topic today. So I am so excited. You're going to see why because I've been talking about one of the topics that we're going to be focusing on today.

So my guest today, she is a dietitian, nutritionist. She's got 20 years of experience in nutrition and wellness. She has a master's degree in integrative and functional nutrition. She is advanced in training from the Institute of Functional Medicine. She's the senior manager of Nutrition Affairs at Timeline. And she is one that is educating people on health care, cellular nutrition, urolitha. She does public speaking. She's a writer.

She's a media personality. And I'm thankful to call her my friend. So everybody, this is Jennifer Scheinman. Dylan, thank you so much. I am so happy to be here. I think we just met sort of recently at A for M and I think I agree, call you my friend. It's just been such a wonderful experience getting to know you. And I'm so happy to be here talking about mitochondria, cellular health and nutrition and urolithine with your audience. Yeah, I'm not going to make it any secret, which I haven't. When I came to A for M, I obviously I came there to learn and to, you know, network. I mean, that's the point of going there. But I had. specifically set out to come to speak to you guys in person. Now, I didn't know I was going to meet you and Ian that I was so blessed to meet, which made it far more than I expected.

But that was my goal was I had stumbled upon timeline nutrition and most specifically Euralithin A through other people that I do podcasts with that I highly respect. And so I started to dig in with no idea what to expect or what I was going to stumble. upon now. So that is why I am beyond excited. I've been looking forward to having you on here ever since we talked. So I am going to take every last second I can with you to educate people on urolithine and might appear in everything timeline nutrition is doing. So just really quickly, everybody that follows me knows that I have been in the supplement industry and in the whole health and wellness industry well over 15 years. And for me to get excited about a product at this point,

it's I'm so jaded from everything that I've seen and that I've been through, the mismarketing, the bad products, the promises that never, you know, come about, the bait and switch. I mean, we could go on and on. So the fact that I got so excited about this being that it was so different was what drew me to it. But then looking into the studies and realizing just what was found here and what that Eurolithna can do. And then thinking of myself, where have you been? all of this time. I want to just, I want to do everything about it, but I want to take it slow for everybody because some of this stuff, well, it might seem second nature to you and I because we look at it so often. Other people are still learning about it. So in short, can you kind of just give a basic breakdown of what is your allithinae? Because it sounds kind of wild and it sounds like, oh, it's something new fad, which I can tell you it's not. What is your allithinae and why is it so important? Yeah, well, before you that, I just thank you for sharing sort of your experience with, like, the supplement industry. And we have a very similar pathway in the sense that I've been in the wellness industry myself for, I think the bio I had you read said almost, you know, 20 years, but it's actually probably almost 30 years.

And I joined the team at timeline. I think the same reason why you and so many of the other, like, amazing educators and partners that we have is because they look at the science and they look at the transparency in, you know, mitopure specifically the branded urolithinae supplement. And it's so different than what's happening in the supplement industry. And we can get into that later. But I think that's just really important for your audience to kind of understand is like the type of research we're going to talk about today is not everyday research that supplement companies do on the regular. And this is really raising the bar on the way brands should be really like marketed and

putting supplements together. With that, let's just start with what, you know, it's a mouthful, Eurolithes. alyth and A, right? That's probably most people have never really heard that word before. And if you haven't, you're not alone. I mean, as a dietitian, really only about three or four years ago, I learned what uralitha and A was. And that's not because it's newly discovered. It has been studied extensively for over 15 years. There just wasn't really a branded supplement on the market with, you know, marketing dollars behind it to start talking about it. But there's some, incredible research that we'll talk about. So let's start with just what it is. Where do you find it in nature? So a lot of times we're talking about supplements and we're talking about, you know, nutrients. We're talking about things that we find in food. And your alitone is a little bit different. It's not directly found in the food we eat. Instead, we are relying on our gut to make it for us, right? And I'm sure your audience like any other health savvy kind of consumer out there knows the

critical importance of the gut, right? Right. And one of the reasons our gut is so important is we have these microbes, these bacteria that live inside our gut. And one of the things that they do is they create a molecule called a postbiotic. Basically, like a metabolite of things we can't digest and absorb. So I like to say often that our gut microbiome, we give room and board, and they pay us back. So they basically, room and board, meaning they get to live inside our gut.

They get to digest things we don't eat like fiber or in the case of urolithinate, polyphenols, which are plant compounds. So we don't digest those. Our gut microbiome does that for us and they pay us back in these metabolites. And in this case, urolithinate, it's called a postbiotic nutrient. So that's what urolithinay is in a nutshell. What it does is something really, really remarkable. When we talk about cellular health and we talk about aging, right, we have these powerhouse

of our cell. When we all think about high school biology, and hopefully we won't really stress out anyone who has long forgotten high school biology, we'll keep it simple. We think of the mitochondria, right? And automatically we think powerhouse of the cell. It's like a reflex reaction. And that's because these are our cellular batteries. They basically give ourselves the energy they need to do their job. And it doesn't matter whether it's a brain cell or a muscle cell or a skin cell. They all are relying on this energy. So the tie in here to urolithine, is that you. this molecule is something that triggers a recycling process of our dysfunctional mitochondria. So as our mitochondria get used, just like anything else with wear and tear, it starts to break down.

And that's actually one of the things that contributes to the aging process. So as our mitochondria become dysfunctional, our body has this innate ability to recycle them. And uroliphonate just helps to upregulate that process. So there's a lot of science mumbo-jumbo. I think the key things to sort of take away from that is we don't get your olivine, Lithonate directly from the diet. We're relying on a healthy gut should we have one, which we'll dive into. And what it does is it triggers this recycling process of the cellular energy makers in our cells. So that powerhouse of our cell, we recycle it, we break down, we get rid of the damaged

product, the damaged cell components, and we have newer, healthier mitochondria producing more energy for ourselves to do their jobs. You know, it's funny because I swear to you, when I was in high school and through college, my least favorite, most hated topic and subject was biology. I had to go to community college separate to take it by itself because I literally had zero interest into it. And at this point in my life, it is the most interesting thing that I could ever find. And what I was, when we were talking before, I told you, I was in biology class right now. Well, I'm doing that because of my fascination and interest and my, my disdain for my own personal style for not being interested when I was, I just wasn't, you know, I was into sports. I was into

like just nutrition and working out and not the science. And the reason that I got so into it now is because of this and everything that I learned meeting you and learning about what might appear does, what your allithinae is and understanding and seeing that now. And it has made me realize the importance. Now, you brought up something that is one of the things that drew me to it. Because what I'm always trying to do is figure out how to reverse aging, anti-age, or slow the process down within realistic sense. I'm not trying to be, you know, Brian Johnson think I'm going to win 5,000 years old. I'm not crazy. But I do thoroughly believe, and I want to know your opinion and thought on this, I do thoroughly believe that we certainly could extend our lifespans or at least the quality of our life and lowering all of the disease and things that we see that are more prevalent.

And this is one of the things that draws me to your allyth and a. So do you, in your mind and your belief system, especially through experiencing this, do you believe that we can slow that aging process down? And this is one of the keys to doing that along with obvious things with diet, nutrition, and sleep and things like that. But let's just leave that out and assume people are doing that. Do you think this is one of the keys to doing that and also building a better quality of life? And is that something that we are seeing through study that's attainable by using urolithinae?

Yeah. So absolutely, I think we have within our grasp the ability to change how we age. Now, can we extend lifespan to your point? Like, Brian Johnson, like, I don't know, right? And is urolithinae going to make you live from like 100 to 120? Like, I don't know. We don't have the answers to that. That's really hard to study and evaluate.

but I think you hit on this really, really important critical topic, which is the difference between health span and lifespan, right? Not just like chronologically how many years you live, but how many of those years are full of vitality and doing the things that we want to do and are free from chronic disease and chronic pain, you know, being in a wheelchair, all of those things that we sort of associate with old age. We can push those chronic diseases, you know, at bay and slow down their progression. And I absolutely think that diet exercise, those foundational pieces, you have to do those. There's no free pass. You've got to do those.

But I think that things like your allifinae absolutely are taking your health, your wellness, your longevity plan to the next level. Because they're targeting the biology of how we age. So it's interesting about, you know, I think it was about 10 years ago. This landmark paper came out. It was called the Hallmarks of Aging. And it identified at that point, I believe it was nine. biological processes that are happening inside our body inside ourselves that are contributing to how we age. And in order to be a hallmark, scientifically speaking, there were things that you could do

that could accelerate these processes, like smoking, obviously, is a great example of things that will accelerate aging, right? And then there are things that you could apply to these processes that would slow down. And potentially maybe in cellular models we're seeing reverse. I don't think we're in a place right now to claim anything is actually reversing aging. And that paper really started these nine hallmarks, started the foundation for like other interventions and just studying longevity medicine. And just about a year ago, that paper got a refresh and they added three new hallmarks. So there's 12 hallmarks now specifically that are really the foundation of science looking into longevity and lifespan extension. And interestingly, there's three hallmarks particularly that I think urolithinae plays a role in.

And so the first one we talked about was mitochondrial dysfunction, right? That is this. And let's just be really like simplistic for a second for your audience. And I think, you know, how advanced people are and their understanding of science. Like sometimes it's just nice to hear things with a simplistic understanding. So when we think of the mitochondria, I mean, we're going to talk about energy production. They do a ton of other things inside the cells than just energy. But I like to think of the mitochondria as a factory, right, where the raw material is actually the food that we eat and the air that we bring.

that we breathe, and it goes through this complex assembly line, and on the other end is what's called ATP, that's cellular energy. Right. And in order to have good cellular energy, a couple of things are going to come into play, right, like the number of these factories, right, how well these factories function, obviously the quality of the raw materials, the workers and the other ingredients that are on this factory, right? But at the end of the day, that factory will start to break down, just like any other factory. And that is kind of what mitochondrial decline is, is that that factory starts to break down. So that's one of the hallmarks of aging. We also have this ability as we talked about to recycle those factories, where you will demolish them because you only have so much cellular real estate,

right? So just like any other factory, like you can keep building new factories, but there's only so much real estate. So you want to demolish the broken down factories, the broken down mitochondria, take what still works, recycle them and build new ones. And that process was called mitophobic. Another, one of the newly added hallmarks of aging was a decline in that mitophagy pathway. And your audience, if you talk about fasting at all and calorie restriction, right, your audience is probably familiar with the word autophagy, that's cellular recycling. So this is just a very, very targeted form of cellular recycling that happens on the mitochondria. So you're starting to see this influx of dysfunctional mitochondria, right?

Higher mitochondria, lower ability to recycle them. So you're really getting this mismatch and this imbalance of dysfunctional. mitochondria, which has been correlated in so many chronic conditions. And then there's one more interesting hallmark that also came out, which is chronic inflammation, inflamaging, right? This like, this inflammation that's happening inside our cells, which then contributes to damage throughout the cell. And that's another hallmark of aging. And interestingly, when people take the dietary supplement, urolithin A, we do see markers of inflammation come down as well. And so there is this understanding of your aliphan A in a supplement form can target three different hallmarks of aging,

which is pretty incredible. And when you start thinking about health span and how to kind of push back against the things that bring our demise ultimately, right? These chronic conditions, I do think your aliphon A can be a really big player in it. I've got so many questions now. Yeah. I'm going to try to, sometimes I have the tendency to throw too many at once. So I'm going to try to remember all these and give them, feed them to your hair. So the first one is, now you, one of the points that you just brought up that I think more people are becoming, becoming more aware of is just how significant inflammation markers are and how they're the cause of like basically everything, every problem and disease that we have.

So by taking urolithine, and I'm, I'm kind of spitball in here, blood markers that we're going to look for to see how it's working. would you expect like a high-sensity C-reactive protein to come down by taking it? Think markers like that. What kind of markers can we look for? And is that, look, I'm not, I don't want exact numbers. I just want possibilities here on what could happen because everybody's different doses are different.

Conditions are different. So that's something I stress to my audience on. I'm programmed to do that because of I understand how people think. And so promises are one thing and averages are another thing. would you expect to see some drops in that? And are there any other blood markers that one may look at to go, oh, wow, this is changing. This may be helping me in this regard.

Yeah. So in our studies, we did see to exactly, as you said, C reactive proteins, a great marker of inflammation. And we did see that come down in our studies. So I think that is, you know, an interesting marker. Again, whether you're using urolithin A or anything, I think that's an important thing you want to be asking your doctor to check because it is really helping to assess the full body inflammation that's happening.

Now, when we're talking really just about mitochondrial health and testing in general, it does get a little more tricky because there are some biomarkers that people are using, but there really isn't a great, like, go-to-your-do-your-do-test for mitochondrial dysfunction. Now, in a lab setting, when our, you know, our scientific arm is studying mitochondrial dysfunction and, you know, when we talked about, like, the hallmarks of aging and all of that, right, there are some fantastic clinical labs that you would use in a study setting. So, For example, usually it's done with a muscle biopsy where you're taking a bit of muscle tissue and then you're looking under, you know, very high-tech imaging to look at mitochondrial function. You're measuring, you know, gene markers of mitochondrial function and other, you know, other markers that are showing that, you know, free fatty acid oxidation is happening or, you know, acid acid acidation is happening. So, but that, there just isn't like for you and me to go to our doctor and say, hey, can you test my mitochondrial function? And there are some newer, you know, direct-to-consumer or practitioner tests that are emerging on the marketplace. I'm not sure, you know, and our research team is, like, full of scientists that have been studying mitochondrial health for their entire career.

Like, I'm not sure those tests are there yet, but I think they're an interesting tool for people to have in their back pocket. You know, when I put all of my weight on them, not yet. So that's a frustrating answer in the sense that there's just no. a good way to test your mitochondrial function. I think how you feel is one good way, right? Like fatigue, not bouncing back from workouts the way that you used to, you know, brain fog. Those are great indicators. You know, things like VO2 max. That also would be a wonderful indicator of, you know, but they're all sort of like biomarkers and they're just not necessarily direct measurements of uralithine. So those would be ways for you to kind of tell like this is, this is helping, right?

like I am noticing how I feel. And that's what our research, you know, has shown is like first we started with these muscle biopsies and showed that after four weeks of placebo, 500 milligrams or 1,000 milligrams of uroliphon A, we saw that both the 500 and 1,000 milligrams of uroliphani, A was, in fact, inducing this mitochondrial turnover and that we were seeing these robust improvements in mitochondrial health. And so that's, you know, and that study, we can share these, all these studies in the show, Those are all our studies are published and really high-end top-tier medical journals. And so people can go and read these results for themselves.

That's one of the things that I loved and drew me so much was the amount of time spent within these studies and over time. And that total focus on really putting the information out, making it super transparent, seeing that these studies were not rigged or tweaked, you know, to how somebody wanted them to be. Unfortunately and fortunately, because I have seen it so much, I am tuned to see when they're tweaked or when I can see they're manipulated or however the case may be. Now, people are good and sneaky and they got away with words, but I can see how these are done and how well they're done. And that was just one more thing that I want to point out to people. When you look at studies like this, you can really see the time and the effort and the honesty that was put into them. And that's, I feel like some of my work and my calling is to call things out and to.

put things out there when they're bad, but also when they're good. I don't want, it shouldn't just be focused on bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. When you happen to find something and you're blessed with finding it, you want to put it out there. So when we start talking about, because a lot of stuff anymore, it's like you have to go get functional tests, you need a naturopathic doctor and integrative health practitioner, somebody that will actually look at other things besides a CBC and things like that, of course we need, but really don't tell us a whole lot. So we know it testing for mitochondrial function may be a little difficult right now, but let's look at it from this perspective. What age bracket will you tend to start to see a decline or would you tend to be

looking for, okay, this might be an issue that could be going on? You know, because like, for example, testosterone levels in men are going to start dropping generally in your 30s for most and that there's underlying factors. For mitochondria health, is it any different for men or women? Is there a certain age time and are there any things that may make it worsen or lessen that we could get into? Yeah. So, you know, your 30s are kind of this sweet spot of aging where everything just starts to decline. I know. You know, I always joked. Before I actually even really like started studying this in depth, I was like, my warranty went out when I turned like 33, right? It was just like, you know, like I could bounce back from anything. And then all of a sudden I was like,

what I like tweet my back? And instead of it. like the next day being okay. I'm like, oh, that really is struggling. Not to cut you off, but that's a good point because this is like an extended warranty that we're looking at. I mean, metaphorically, right? Isn't that kind of how we would look at this? Yeah. So, you know, so I think in sort of like the general pop, right? Like this, your third decade is when everything, like men, it's testosterone, you know, women, our hormones still hang in on that, but they're starting, you know, like by your mid 30s, you know, 40s for sure. We're starting to you know, we start to enter perimenopause, muscle decline starts to happen. But I think, you know,

with people who maybe lived a very inactive lifestyle, right? Like, that might be happening earlier. If you're eating a junk food diet, your mitochondria are going to be sensitive to that, right? And so there's not necessarily a hard and fast rule that, like, you're great until you're 30s, right? I think if you're also doing everything right, maybe it's a little bit later. You know, so I think things like tools like your Lithuan A, just like, you know, fitness and nutrition. Like, those are things that you want to start earlier, the better and hopefully are going to help to slow down and cushion some of the more dramatic things that happen as you start getting at your 30s, 40s and later. But not to say that if you are in your 70s and just want to start now, like, that's

not too late either, right? Right. Right. Definitely, you know, it's never too late. So, but yeah, I mean, people, there are definitely, you know, things like mold exposure and Lyme disease and chronic fatigue syndrome and all of those things will also damage your mitochondria. So if you are a younger person and you're suffering with that, then you're having some degree of mitochondrial dysfunction. But for just sort of general pop, yeah, your 30s is probably when things are starting to, starting to, your warranty is getting towards its end. Like hitting 100,000 miles on the car, right? It's just it's when everything starts to go. Okay. So yeah, I mean, and I think, unfortunately, that seems to be kind of general.

Now, here's another question then in terms of age and use of the product that I want to get into because we're talking about the mitochondrial, you know, help and function. But I'm drawn to some other things that I've talked about. And that brings me to different age use with this because, and I've got some studies here that you gave me that I want to get into and talk about with you, but I want to, you know, let's look at this first. So let's say you're in your 20s and you're looking at this and go, well, how is this going to benefit me if I'm, you know, I'm probably not declining at this, but then that's where I can come in and say, hey, I'm an endurance athlete and I'm, I train

professional athletes and I'm a strength athlete. And for background for people that are maybe new to listening, I do about 100 minutes of cardio five days a week and then another hour and a half of strength training. So I assure you any sort of difference in my cardiovascular training, I know like this. I, you know, we have bad days, good days, but I know where I'm at, where my tired zones are, where I start to hit a wall. And I, I don't want to set times on anything. I'm a faster responder to things. I always have been no matter what I've taken than a lot of people are. I don't know why. You know this. Some people are slow. Some people are fast. I've stuck with the 500 milligrams of ulythin A. You guys told me that I would,

would probably need a thousand, but I just wanted to test and learn. And I can say with certainty, and it's been a little over a month now that I've been doing it. And like I said, I don't want to, please don't take this as I'm setting a time on this. But within that time frame, I have seen a very nice increase significantly, even on days where I'm getting like five hours of sleep, which I don't recommend, with my cardio training. And more recently, it's really been the last, I would say, six to seven training sessions where I can go, okay because I haven't been trying to lift heavier, but my strength is significantly rising. And I haven't made any other changes. I'm not taking anything else. I did this completely solo. So I guess my

point is athletes, college athletes, it's safe for, I don't know about teens. You could, you could expound on that. But would you find use for somebody younger that may look at this and go, well, I don't need it because I'm not having a cellular mitochondrial decline? Yeah. So we haven't studied it and people under 18. So I think, you know, anyone who's sort of still developmentally, you know, going through the thing, let's leave that for another conversation. But you're absolutely right for younger populations. So first of all, if you are an athlete, especially like, you know, someone like you who's training super hard and intense more than just like for general fitness, right? Or you're a professional athlete and your career depends on your body, right? You are

actually exhibiting mitochondrial dysfunction despite the fact that you are, really? Yeah, you know, it's almost like a Goldilocks effect where it could be too much too, right? And so we do see that there are benefits in younger athletes using it. And we have, you know, a number of professional athletes that take it and what we've seen. So our studies first really started looking at older sedentary population, but because we know, right, the mitochondria, they're producing like a ton of energy for you to do your 100, 150 minutes of cardio day, right? Yeah.

That is an incredible amount of energy all coming from your mitochondria, right? So they're getting used a lot more than like me who is just doing my like 30 minutes of cardio and my like 30 minutes of weight. So what the study, so one study, this is a really interesting study that just got published than that was in younger population. Actually, timeline didn't have anything to do with this study. They did use mitopure. They purchased mitopure. But it was the Beijing Sports Institute did it like completely independent of us. And they looked at, I believe it was the average age of like 24.

So young college trained strength trained athletes. And they found these similar results in muscle strength and muscle endurance that we saw even in older adults. And these are people who are really like they were, you know, working on a training regimen. They were, you know, they were, again, just not your like average person that goes to the gym. were strength trained athletes. There's another study that is wrapping up that's not published that was also in now endurance, so not necessarily strength trained. These were Olympic trained athletes who runners, distance runners.

And they went to training camp, so everything that was being accounted for, their training workout and their diet. And they were randomized to either urolithinae or, and the data is still being analyzed there. So I don't have like a strong claim that I can say until this is published data, but it themes the story there is really in recovery. Helping, and that's something we hear all the time is, you know, after I take this, like, I don't really get sore at the gym. Like an example for me personally, I'm not a big runner.

I mean, I've been really focused on strength lately. So, like, my cardio has taken a little bit of a hit, sadly. And I got roped into doing a, sorry, what I thought was a 5K trail run. And I got there and found out it was a five-mile trail run. A little different. And it was super hilly and outside. And I was like, oh, man, what did I sign myself up? for and I didn't do great on the run. Like,

this isn't a miracle where it like made me like be able to do something I wasn't trained for. It definitely didn't do that. But I really thought the next day like I was going to be so sore and so tanked. And I like woke up the next day and I felt amazing. Like I was like, wow, that's incredible. And and I felt that very often that I do like a super hard workout or something that's different than what I normally do and just think at my age like I'm almost 50. Like I don't really feel that tomorrow and I don't. And so this. Science, I think, will be backing that up very soon. Yeah, which is really interesting.

I mean, that's where I've noticed it the most was in the cardio training. And like I said, when it comes to diet, because I'm so specific and when it comes to cardio, those two things and the way that I am so strict and I know even the slightest change. And I factor it. I give it a, you know, I want an average and I factor it. I'm a very data-driven person. And I don't just take that off two or three cardio sessions. I'm taking that off weeks of it.

now and seeing the you know the improvement i i'm not i i'm far two seasons to go oh i had a great one today it's got to be this you know like no no no no now that could have just been you know whatever for that day this is consistent now to the point where i'm confident that i can say it and and go and tell people hey i've got real confidence in this so that's why i wanted to bring that up for athletes because when you have something that's multifunctional because sometimes people will hear one thing and not realize the other aspects of it or the benefits that could be there and all around. And so I guess another question then would be as somebody younger, I am big on being preventative, delaying the inevitable, mitigating the future, whatever that may be.

Would you find a benefit as well, even though, let's say we're not having a ton of damage mitochondria or lacking in any way, but are we still being more preventative and staying ahead of the curve by taking it a little bit younger as on top of the other benefits that we just discussed. Yeah, I mean, I think so, right? The data, you know, when we talk about the clinical studies, right, a lot of it is skews a little towards the older person. There's some new data that is coming out around younger people. So, but we just think about like the biology of what's happening. Like we, we are living in a sort of toxic soup environment these days where our mitochondria are getting damaged. I, you know, I think it's a very specific type of person who, you know, I think it's a very specific type of

person who eats perfectly and exercises perfectly every day, right, and sleeps every day, who is not leading, like, some sort of high-stress life. So I do think that there is benefit, the earlier that you start with, again, like all lifestyle things, right? Like, why wait until something is, you know, until you still that warranty starts to run out, right? Why, you know, you don't, you don't not do oil changes in your car until the warranty runs out, right? There are things that you do to help make sure that that car is going to be in its best working order long past the day that the warranty happens. And that's how you should treat your body, right? The things that you want to be doing as a younger person. And I think, you know, we're starting

to see that with like this, you know, Chinese sports study, that there are benefits, even in younger people taking things like your allithinae. Yeah. And that's what I'm always so big on preventative, preventative, you know, make sure that you're addressing something before it happens, stop it before it starts, delay this, you know, whatever you have to do, but be ahead of the curve and don't be complacent because stuff creeps up on you out of nowhere and not saying it's not fixable, but it's a lot harder to fix. And you don't ever want to let it get there. Yeah, you know, and I was just working on something else this morning and I know this statistic, but every time I see it, it like shocks me. Less than a quarter of U.S. adults meet the

guidelines for physical activity for cardio and strength, right? And so, frustrating. Yeah. And so we got to start with changing that for sure, right? But I think like we're also talking to a very specific population when we also only say like, hey, you who exercise, this might help you. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

The vast majority of people in the U.S. And so even if your audience are people who are doing a lot of things to take care of their health, I bet they have loved ones that are not. Always. Right? Always. And I think that's one of the things that I found so remarkable. when I first started digging into the science around your allif and A was, wow, this is having an impact in people who aren't exercising.

Yeah. And that is huge, right? Because there are so many reasons why people don't exercise, right? Like, you know, I think most people want to do some sort of exercise. But, you know, as a career dietitian, I know how hard behavior change is and getting people to stick with it, right? They start a program and they stick with it for a couple of months and then they fall off. you know, and so the intention is there, and there's a million reasons why it doesn't stick,

but the thought that you can get some benefit from a dietary supplement to maybe help bridge that gap, or, you know, if you're having an injury and you can't get to the gym, right, there are a lot of things. And that was just what was so interesting to me was that we saw these benefits in strength, for example. These were in middle-aged adults who took, like you, 500 milligrams. And over the course of four months, we saw this significant, robust improvement in muscle strength. you know, after just four months. And we didn't change diet. We didn't change exercise. So, you know, and I think one of the reasons people struggle also to exercise is, you know the energy to do it. Like, it's almost this like paradoxal thing where, like, you know you got to like figure out how to

have enough energy to work out. And then when you work out, you do have more energy. But it feels like a really big boulder to lift when you just are fatigued and don't have the energy to like cook a healthy meal and to get to the gym. And so what if there, there was something like mitochondure that could kind of help, move you along and you can start to feel like you have a little bit more energy and a little bit more like yourself and start to revitalize the energy centers that are happening in your muscle cells and then you can maybe get yourself to the gym and then the power of the gym is really like that's really what is the exercise and I have said a million times like nothing's going to change that you've got to do that but it's really nice to know that there are tools out there that can help

support all that hard work that you're doing or maybe get you to a place where you feel like you have that, just that slightest bit more edge to get you to the gym to cook a healthy meal. Okay, so we're going to go into your wheelhouse then with this is where I want to shift to because I'm very curious as to what your thoughts are on this and how this can affect the mitochondrial health, the effect on urolithineate, maybe benefiting or not benefiting. So let's talk about the diet aspect of this. Is there a particular diet like, and I'm just making this up, I don't know if this is factual or not, but let's just say, would a low-carb diet have a certain impact on the way uralithinae works

or the way that mitochondrial function enhances or declines? You know, certain kinds of foods, certain kinds of diets. Can you kind of talk about that? Because, you know, there's always high debates, high stresses and discussions around ketogenic diets, high-fat diets, you know, vegan diets. So can you kind of get into that, the effects and different perspectives that you've seen or encountered? So let's just first address diet and urolithin A, and then we can kind of talk about mitochondrial health. So, you know, it kind of doesn't matter, like, what you eat in order to get your, like, if you're taking a dietary supplement of your allithinae, if you're taking mitopure, like, you know, it's going to work regardless of how you're eating.

Now, of course, how you're eating, though, is, like, the foundation of, like, your good health, right? So, like, a healthier diet with your allithine is going to be a much different experience than just, like, uralithinae on its own. So you're not going to play around with how your body like digest and absorb it, whether you're eating carbs or whether you're eating a high fat diet. Like your body will still absorb it and utilize it. But of course, your mitochondria, like remember we talked about like the raw materials are the food that you eat. And so the quality of what you start with is going to play a role in the type of energy that comes out. And the sort of other ingredients that go into producing ATP are things like the vitamins, the polyphenols, the nutrients that you get. your food. So, I mean, there is a lot of, like, you've got to be carnivore diet. You've got to be

vegan diet. Like, I think everybody, it's kind of almost become like a religion at this point of, like, what's the best diet. But there are certain things that are absolutely going to play a role into your mitochondria. You've got to make sure that you're getting all the key nutrients, things like KU10, B vitamins, polyphenols. Besides, you know, we talked about the illegitatinins are the polyphenols that your glyphanins that your glyphanis, but there's other polyphenols that are protective on your mitochondria. So things like what are in things like green tea, right? They're olive oil, right? Right, right. A lot of these polyphenols are going to be protective of your mitochondria. My personal belief, right, is a lot goes into food and longevity and diet, right? Like when we look at

like the long lived communities around the world, right, like they're eating very sort of traditional types of diets that are full of plant food that are full of whole food. They're not eating. a lot of like processed things. And that's really, I think, what, you know, whether I think there's like a therapeutic reason why some people are going to do great on a keto diet. I think there's a lot of, you know, people have like philosophical reasons around not wanting to eat meat. I think there are places for all of that for you as an individual to decide what's the

right diet for you and still get, and still. I personally, like, I don't feel great. I have tried a keto diet millions of time. I've tried to get through the keto flu. Like, I just don't feel great on a keto diet. I think that my body, and I think that we all have different genetics. I think my body just does better with some carb, but I also have to eat high quality carbohydrate. Like I don't eat sugar and processed carbs.

I'm eating things like sweet potato and whole grains. I also feel much better when I eat animal protein, right? I personally need animal protein in my diet. I don't feel well when I am not eating that. So I think there's a lot of individuality here on people's, you know, belief systems and individual biology and just how you like to eat. Like, let's not forget how you enjoy. Like, food is such a part of pleasure for most people.

And I personally believe, like, it's a social, it's a cultural. It's a pleasure thing. You know, like, if somebody told me, like, you could never eat that again. Like, I don't know. That's not the world. Like, I don't want to live in that kind of world. Right. Like so, and again, these are all very individual decisions and choices.

So I don't necessarily like to say one thing is better than another. But there are certain things we know for sure. Like high fructose corn syrup is not going to be good for you. your mitochondria, like inflammatory fats, not going to be great for your mitochondria. Polyphenols, vitamins, minerals, they're going to be great for your mitochondria. Omega-3 fatty acids. Like all of these things are going to be really helpful in making sure that your mitochondria work and function correctly.

So just real quick, what are some good options for polyphenols and omega-3s? Just while we're on the topic, it would be great if you would just give people some good options. I like olive oil salmon for polyphenols and omega-3s, but anything. else that maybe is not so common or just some tips that you have would be awesome. Yeah, walnuts are a great nut in terms of omega. I think they're actually the highest omega-3, you know, nut that is out there. I snack on walnuts all the time. Yeah, me too. Yeah, seeds, like chia seeds, hemp seeds, those are going to be great. Your polyphenols, I, you know, think of kind of like

eating the rainbow, right? Like, you want to try and have as much variety in what you're eating. So you want to have your green leafy vegetables. You want to have your red berries and tomatoes. You want to have oranges, orange peppers, orange, you know, carrots, that's going to really ensure, because polyphenols will do things besides just like your mitochondria, right? They're like powerful anti-inflammatory. They, you know, they help with, you know, cancer prevention. So you want to be really eating a lot of variety, eating from different, you know, aspects of the rainbow. I have recently been reading some research and this like sounds alarming to some people when they first hear it, but it's actually not as crazy it is that you want to try and engage in eating 30 different

plant foods a week. Wow. Yeah. 30 different plant foods. But what counts as plants, it's not, don't just think vegetables and fruits, right? So things that count as plants are going to be like your whole grains, your beans, your nuts, your seeds and your herbs and your spices. So herbs and spices are like potent.

They're like a pharmacy, basically, level of, you know, polyphenols, antioxidants and other, like, that's why like turmeric, like, right? Think about that, right? It's such a huge powerful antioxidant and people are taking that as like, in supplement form, but all of our herbs and spices are just powerhouses of nutrients and a little bit goes a long way. So teas, like, there's a lot of ways. So 30 doesn't need to be like, oh my God, that's crazy. Like if you eat a big salad that has like tomatoes and carrots and maybe you throw some like seeds in there and some chickpeas and some olives, like boom, you've just gotten probably like seven to five of your daily there, right?

And then you like have dinner and you make out something with a tomato sauce that has basil and onions and garlic and tomatoes. and maybe you throw in some like peppers, boom, you've just gotten like another five to ten, right? So it's not as like crazy as it should be. But that's an interesting rule of thumb. I've recently been reading some research about and kind of a nice sort of target for people's 30 different plants. You know, one of the things that I changed, I have been like one of the things I could never live without is peanut butter. And I started to have walnut butter and pistachio butter and sub. And oh my gosh, it's like, first of all, it tastes better once you get used to it.

But second of all, you can see the way that you feel and how, even blood barkers for me that I'm a three-month-a-guy blood mark. So I know. But I can see just the little small changes. But yeah, those are great points and really great ideas. So I talked to you briefly about this. I just had Dr. Gundry on a week talked about this for like 45 minutes. And I want your thoughts on this because there's such a understanding now. And it seems like, I don't know, I would say at least over the past like five to ten years where this prevalence of understanding the role that the gut plays in everything, really.

How does your gut health factor into your mitochondrial health? And like, can you stress and discuss the importance of understanding gut health and addressing it and how that ties into not, I mean, let's address the mitochondrial aspect, but just like the whole total. because it's like the central area of problems. It's like the antagonist of everything that we're having go on here. So could you kind of just touch on that? Yeah. I mean, and Guntry probably does a million times better job than even I could do, right? But I think we are just starting to, as much as we know, we're still just beginning to understand the critical importance of the gut. And it's interesting because I also say that like where mitochondrial health is today, the concept of it and like the awareness in the public is almost like where gut health was like 15 years ago.

So so if your audience is also like, I don't want to learn more about the mitochondria, like, guys, I think you're in for a ride because I think like just how gut health 15 years ago, people were like, I got to care about my gut. And now like we talk about it every day. Like mitochondria is the same way. Like in five to 10 years, the science is there. It's just the awareness isn't there yet. And so that year it's the wave.

I hate to call it a trend, but it is. like the next wellness wave. So your gut, I mean, your gut is really like where the outside meets your inside if you think about that, right? I mean, that's where you take in food as a foreign substance. Your body digests, absorbs it and takes everything that it needs and puts it into action your body, but then also comes in contact with a lot of things like we don't want in our body and then we get rid of it. And there's just so much through stress, medications, our lifestyle, and obviously the food that we eat that is really wreaking havoc on our gut. And I think like this concept about urolithine, I think, is just a great sort of segue into that, right?

Like we probably evolved to have this very diverse gut microbiome where we had urolithin A in our bloodstream and high concentrations all the time. And we have now engineered our way into an unhealthy gut where we don't make a lot of uralitha. And in fact, we've studied populations and really only about 30 to 40% of the population has the right gut microbiome to make your allithinae. And even for those who have the right gut microbiome, you have to drink six cups of pomegranate juice a day to get the same effect as, which like, you know, I would never recommend that to anyone. And I think the reason why there's this like stark difference is because we used to have this much more diverse gut microbiome that was, you know, robust and we had a much more diverse. diet where we're eating a lot of polyphenols and things that we're helping our gut microbiome. And I don't think we even know all the things that our gut does for us, right? I mean, it regulates everything.

It's part of your immune system. It's actually like there's a super highway from your gut to your brain and the vagus nerve. I mean, there is, you know, seen some preliminary research that there's even a gut mitochondrial pathway or access. There's just like we hear the gut brain access. You know, I think Dr. Gabriel Lyon talks about like the gut, muscle access. Like, we are learning that the gut is tied to just about everything in our body. I mean, your gut and your skin, like, they go hand in hand too. Right. It is, you know, and whether it's through

the actual, like, epithelial, the actual lining of the gut, or it's through the microbiome or a combination of both and the, you know, the inflammation that's happening in the gut and, you know, the immune regulation. Like, I think we still need to figure out, like, how, but we know that there's a link to all of this for sure. Yeah. You know, so, you know, good gut means good muscle means good brain, means good mitochondria, you know, means all the things. I'm going to keep bringing this up every damn podcast I do about focusing on the gut

and the mitochondria because I'm finding that those two things are, it's become so clear and apparent to me that those are two of the most important areas to address throughout our entire life. And if those are in line, chances are we're going to have a much better opportunity of having a better quality of life and other things not going nearly as wrong. It's not a guarantee, but it's what I'm going to start teaching people to address and to be looking for because I really firmly now believe based on the studies and the science that I've really put the time into that those are the two areas that really need the focus. Would you agree with that? Am I on to something? Yeah, no, I absolutely.

I mean, I think, you know, and I think, you know, sometimes I think people tend to like overcomplicate things in the sense of like, you got to focus on your God and you've got to focus on your mitochondria and you got to focus on this. But like when you're focusing on yourself is sort of like in this holistic way of like I'm going to eat clean and nutrient dense food and I'm going to do exercise that's like appropriate and in the right times, you know, in frequencies and I'm going to focus on my sleep and my mental health. Like you are going to be working on your gut and you are going to be working on your mitochondrial. And of course there are like certain things, right? Like uralithinae, which is really going to be strategically helping to build up your mitochondria. Or you might be taking a specific type of fiber that's going to help your gut. So like, while there are little pieces here and there that you might like target to really like take one system to the next level, like it doesn't need to be overcomplicated. Like you're if you're doing all the right things, like you're doing all the right things. Right, 100%. Yeah.

Okay. So one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about. and I'm going to pull this up here real quick. And let me just point out when you brought up the pomegranth juice. So I drink a half a cup of pomegranate juice a day. And that is in an attempt to help with some calcification I had in my arteries. And just a half a cup of that is like it's more than enough. Just let me point that out to people.

She brought up six cups. It's not happening. It just trust me it's not happening. I have coconut water and everything just to take that thing down. It is A, not good. And B, the amount of like, even though it's natural. sugar that you would get in calories in six cups, no, not happening. Not not, not dietitian approved, at least not by this one.

No, definitely not. So, you know, you had sent me some trials that I was looking at and reading. And I specifically pulled these up for a specific purpose for us. And the Atlas trial was the one that I was really kind of looking at. And I thought maybe that would be a good one for us to kind of talk about because there were several different things that we kind of touched on. And I think that discussing how these facts that you gave were done on trial and to see, you know, what happened would be really good for the audience to kind of grasp and get an understanding of, wow, okay, this is what this does. So can we just kind of get into the Atlas trial a little bit here?

Yeah. Yeah. So our Atlas trial, and that's just sort of like a little fun acronym that we gave for this trial, that was a study that was done in middle-aged adults. So I think the average age there was they were probably around like 40 to 60, 64. And this one was really designed to be looking at muscle strength. So what we did and we took at, you know, the patient population was, I could think of them as sort of like your average American. They had like a BMI of like 29, which is, you know, in the overweight category. They were, you know, just like we didn't necessarily like exclude them if they were on blood pressure medicine or like statins or, you know, even things for glucose control again. Like if you have a BMI of.9, chances are you have some

sort of metabolic dysfunction that's starting to happen there. And these, this group was randomized to either placebo 500 or 1,000 milligrams of urolithin A. It was a 16-week trial, so four months. And what we found there after four months was that we had the significant improvement, 12% improvement of hamstring, specifically hamstring muscle strength at the end of that study in, you know, we didn't change their diet, didn't change their exercise. So it meant that they were sedentary through the whole study,

which as we were kind of talking about before, I think is really remarkable that you can still see benefits, strength benefits. You know, you work, you know, in the fitness industry, like, you know, like to see changes like that for somebody who's not exercising, you don't see that very often. You don't at all.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then some of the other interesting things that changed, which weren't necessarily statistically significant, but we're sort of like trending towards that were these improvements in, you know, the marker VO2 Max, for example, which is really becoming like a, almost like a longevity biomarker, right? And so we saw some improvements in that as well. And, you know, I think the thought is, like, if these studies went longer, like, would we see with these, these changes actually become statistically significant? So to me, I think that is really, really compelling evidence for the benefit of something like your ellipine, for people, like, you know, especially when we think in.

midlife, what's happening there, right? Like women specifically are starting to go through perimenopause, where we are starting to lose our muscle due to estrogen loss. Like men are starting to go through antropause. Like they're also, you know, while it's not quite as drastic a change, like their muscle is being impacted by that. You know, we talked a little bit about testosterone earlier. So while we weren't really like looking specifically in that study on like hormonal changes and all of that, I think it's, you know, this midlife area is when we are really starting to see. decline starting to happen. And so the fact that in the sedentary population, you do see this robust improvement in muscle strength with just 500 milligrams, I think, is really pretty significant and

meaningful in terms of just like real life, right? Like, often I get like, so cool, who cares about my mitochondria? Like, what does that really mean for me? Like, what am I going to feel? And I think that's it, right? Is that this potential improvement in muscle strength is important. So touching on that now, because you brought up hormones and I do hormone optimization, so I guess my curiosity then would take me to, would mitochondrial dysfunction play any role in hormone imbalance, say estrogen imbalance, testosterone dropping, and twofold, let's say that that is a cause, would improving it help balance some of those hormones out? So interestingly, and I, you know, as I'm sort of starting to go through paramedipause,

I've been sort of looking at like the role of hormones and mitochondria. And so this was something I recently learned, right? Like that your mitochondria actually have estrogen receptors, right? And your mitochondria do play a role. Yeah. And your mitochondria do play a role in hormone production. So like in women, particularly like the fastest aging organ in our body is our ovaries. Right.

And egg production is highly, highly dependent on energy from the mitochondria. So I think there's a lot of stuff that is in pre-clinical data, sort of linking hormones to mitochondria as in terms of like in clinical data, like meaning actually in humans. There may be, I'm just not familiar with it. But there is definitely a link between hormones and, you know, and mitochondrial function. And I think it just really, you know, as I had said, like, we're on this like cusp of really the like mitochondrial function being the newest like, you know, thing to talk about in the wellness world. And I think as more data comes out in humans, we will start really like understanding more and more about the role like mitochondrial play in everything. Yeah.

So then then that brings me to my next question. In the sense of because another thing that I'm spending a lot of time on because my wife is going through menopause as well. So I have taken it upon myself to interview some of the best and most brightest people that deal with menopause. So I have I am trying to do as many topics as I can right now, I guess. But I guess my question would be, what kind of a role would mitochondrial, you know, function and improvement help during menopause?

Because, I mean, obviously, most women generally are going through menopause in their 40s. You know, I've seen very early or very late, but let's just go by law of average. There would already be a decline there more than likely then in mitochondrial health and function. And would something like might appear help with any kind of menopausal issues? And would mitochondrial damage play a role in worsening menopause symptoms? So I think that one of the things that's really interesting about our studies that we have done. So unfortunately, women in general, and particularly perimenopausal and menopausal women, are, you know, have been sort of notoriously excluded from a lot of, like, research studies.

Of course. Our studies had actually like, I think 60% in one and it might have been even more women. So that study that we just talked about, that Atlas study that was 45 to 60 year olds old had a majority of women in there. And so while we weren't really like collecting data on menopause or looking at that, I think again, it's safe to assume if you are 45 to 60, you're either perimenopausal or you probably postmenopausal. And we saw that it worked, right, in that patient group. So I think that's fantastic news. And we think about. And we think about. And we think about. And we think about. And we think about. And we think about. And we think about. And we think about. And we think about. And we think about. And we think what's happening to the muscles as we start to lose estrogen. Yeah, I think that, you know, the more that I'm understanding the biology of it, I think it is like the perfect supplement for women who are going through perimenopause or postmenopausal. The other thing, which we haven't even talked about yet, is you can use urolithinae mitotopure topically. There is a topical formulation. And again, you know, I speak for myself, like, as you start going through perimenopause, it almost feels like you wake up one day and literally, like, your face is just sagging. Like,

You don't even know how that happened, right? And part of that is the estrogen laws that's impacting collagen production. And so what we've seen with topical use of urolithinae is that when you use urolithina topically, the genes that turn on collagen organization and assembly, they're all upregulated. And we start to see reduction in fine lines and wrinkles. So that is like even a whole other place for women who are going through perimenopause to think about like uralithine as a, you know, in a topical application as well. So, yeah, I think there is definitely four men, for women, as we are aging, this is just sort of, to me, feels like a no-brainer because it is really getting to that whole arc of like why we age. My catadial dysfunction is happening.

And I was, that's where I was going to transition to next because I know we both wanted to talk about the skin care aspect of it. And I mine was stolen by my wife. So I haven't been able to use my. No, I have. We got to get her out here. Yeah, exactly. I have to. So I'm going to start mine too, but she grabbed it right away and then, you know, and so I had to wait, but that's okay. Because I'm taking the actual and we'll get into the different forms I want to talk about of the actual product itself. But let's talk about the skincare. I mean, that's, so I've been, I was a fashion model in my middle 20. So I've been like an adamant skincare person. I have a twice a day regiment.

I have, I'm completely just enthralled in everything's skincare. So I am, this is a great deal of importance and interest to me. And I'm sure it is for everybody because, you know, especially as times have gone on, more people are more apt to caring about their, you know, their skin and how it looks, trying to fight back, you know, father time and, and that endless battle. So let's just get some basics here because, you know, might appear has that skincare product or that line. So what, how does that work? Like what is, this isn't just like a retinal cream or something.

other type of like, like what's the difference here? How does it work? What's the foundation of it? Can we just kind of get some basic understanding of that? Yeah. So it's using the same mitopure technology that would be in the dietary supplement. It's just staying localized and very potent in the skin. So while this is a completely different mechanism of action, I think people are very familiar with the fact that like you eat vitamin C, right? And you get a benefit, but you also apply vitamin C topically and you get a potent skin benefit. So you can think of it in that sense, but it's still targeting the same aging pathways. It is still causing the mitochondria in your skin to be able to rejuvenate. And so when you have healthier mitochondria, you basically have a skin cell that's acting in a more youthful way.

So that means that you're going to, you know, and what we see is, you know, as I mentioned already about like collagen and what we see in just two weeks is visible signs of aging are reduced. and then when you take that out to eight weeks and do you do these like high-tapped imaging, we start to see similar to retinoles, a similar type of wrinkle reduction. So wrinkle volume, wrinkle depth is reduced. The thing, though, that's really unique is like a lot of people can't tolerate retinol. So even though they sort of become the gold standard in terms of like, I hate to use the word anti-aging, but like anti-aging skin care, a lot of people can't use them, right?

Like they are really irritating. They're really drying. they're really flaky. You have to be super, super careful in the sun. And we've done lots of studies on the safety of urelethen A, and it is you don't get irritation, you don't get sensitivity to it. And there also seems to be this almost like photoprotective effect, which I think is very unique. So while I'm still a firm believer that you have to use sunblock, you are getting some protection from the damaging effects of the sun with your oliphany. And what we did in a study was we exposed the skin, basically, to UV light. And we applied either a placebo cream or we,

applied a urolithina cream. And it's called erythema, that's this like inflammation that happens after you've been exposed to the sun. And all of that quieted and resolved much more quickly with the uralithanae. So that's really, you know, something that pretty much everybody can tolerate. It's, you know, it's very safe. There's not going to be issues with flaky or sensitivity to it. And you get that dual effect where it's targeting the intrinsic, like the internal factors associating with aging that mitochondrial decline. But it's also helping to target the number one thing that causes skin aging actually is the damaging effects of the sun. So you're getting sort of that like dual effect. Wow. So I mean, you can't really go wrong. So let me ask you

this then. Could you utilize both of the cream and the pill or powder at the same time? And so let's say, let's just say I'm taking 500 milligrams of this. And then I'm putting the cream on as well. Is there a, is there a equation there? Am I getting another 500 milligrams with cream or how does that work or is that totally different it's a different to be honest i don't know like it's a different equation so one person it's done in a concentration so one percent urolithinae in these topicals what i got it what is found to be effective okay i don't know how that like correlates into like a milligram dose that you would take um but yes you absolutely like i personally look at it as like you know working on my inside and working on my outside right you've got to do it both ways um

There have been some reports we haven't studied this, right? So that when you do take the pill, some people have noticed, like, I feel like my skin looks better. That's where I was going. But you're not going to, yeah. I can't say with the same, like, clarity, like, if you take the dietary supplement, like, you're going to get skin benefits. Like, it's going to be minimal. But, and sort of same thing. If you're using the topical, like, it's not going to really become in a meaningful way systemic and going to impact your muscle.

So if you can absolutely use both, if you're really curious about skin health, specific, that's where you're going to go for the topical. If you're looking for a full body, then you're going to go for the dietary supplement. You know, and some people, it's interesting because some people will start with the skin because you actually will see the benefit really quickly

with the skin, whereas when you take like, you know, you said you are starting to feel things in, you know, it's been a little over a month. The expectation, I would say, is like at the barest minimum a month,

you know, it could even take four months. That's where our studies continue to see results. So, you know, in today's like Amazon Prime World, where people want to see something tomorrow, you got to be patient with this. But the skin, you're going to see results pretty, pretty quickly. So if you're sort of on the fence, like, is this something that's going to work, especially since, like, I can't go to my doctor and get a

mitochondria test, like you might want to start with the skin, see it yourself, and then say, oh, yeah, I want to go and invest in taking the supplement. Or you might just say, like, I'm ready. Like, the science is there. I think this is something that would benefit what I'm doing for my health. and you start a supplement. And that's why I always preface my experiences with I'm a fast responder, no matter what, anything I've ever talked about for the past 15 years, I preface that because that does not apply to everybody.

And this is a marathon. It's not a sprint. Things don't work overnight. I know we all want them to. I know we all want everything right now. But when it comes to health, especially, and we're trying to fix and repair things,

especially like intracellular, that takes time. Just like if you start taking something, for your liver, for example, to get the enzymes down, that takes time. It all takes time. So we have to, we all need to understand that and understand the level of patience and the things to look for to see the improvements. So because you get these people that get so frustrated so fast and that's diet, training, whatever, and then they just give up or say something doesn't work and they never even give it the chance. So one thing I think we should address when we said that might

appear could slow the aging process. I think that it would be important to bring up the fact that we're talking like slowing your internal aging, correct, like the way that our body ages and problems that occur. So when we're talking about using for the wrinkles or tightening of skin perhaps, it doesn't necessarily mean this is going to do that the pill form. It may, right, slow or improve skin and everything, but the cream is going to be the one that does more of that, so to speak, or more quickly seen on the surface. So there's an aging slowing internally and externally, correct? Correct. Correct. Yeah. So, so, you know, because we're getting to those those mitochondria, which are one of the drivers of aging, right? And we're, we're helping to rejuvenate those mitochondria. As we are hopefully, like,

you know, I think instead of going off a cliff, like it's a much more slow decline into the aging process when you use something like your ellipid egg. But yes, like the, you know, if you're taking the pill, yeah, some of that is going to get to your skin cells, but you're just not going to. going to see the same effect as if you are putting the topical on there. And, you know, as I said, I personally use both. And I think that's really like the sweet spot. And so that you're hitting all of yourself with your lithinae. And that's why when I talk sometimes about slow and age, and I'm talking about how you feel.

And, you know, you don't, you don't have to decline at 40 in your performance levels. And you don't have to not be able to develop muscle at those. Like, you don't have to do that. It's not actually, it shouldn't be acceptable because it's, it's something. A lot of people I feel like, well, that's just kind of how it goes and it's just inevitable, but it's not. That's why when you go, oh, so-and-so looks great for their age, but they're different. No, no, no, no, no. The only reason they're different is because they do things differently.

Yeah, they're working at it. They're not programmed any differently or, I mean, they might have some things that someone else may not advise versa internally, but let's be real about this. It's something they're doing, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know I am, you know, not far out for my 50th birthday. I've got about, I think, nine months before it. And I feel better than I felt in my, you know, early 40s.

And, you know, I just had a Dexas scan. Like, I'm putting on muscle even at the age, right? And these are the things, but I'm working hard at it. And when I say hard, I don't mean, like, I deserve a gold star. Like, and I'm doing like an above and beyond. I strength train three times a week. And, you know, and not anything like that's outrageous. I strength train three times a week.

I, you know, I get plenty of cardio and I make sure that I eat a healthy diet. and I prioritize my sleep. Like I, and then I, you know, of course, do take some targeted supplements, but even there, like there's people out there, I think are taking like 50 supplements a day. I mean, I probably take five, one of which is mitopure,

but they're really just, you know, things like a multivitamin and some magnesium and some vitamin D and mitopure. And so I think anybody can do it. It's, and it's, you know, you got to work hard, but I always try to tell people that one of the things I finally got

my heart head around is working smarter, not necessarily hard. Sometimes it's like embedded in somebody like me's head, we just got to go harder. We just got to go harder. It's like you can only go so hard before it starts to have a negative, you know, compounding effect. So last thing I really want to get into is just a little background on the company. And maybe do you have any idea on how many more plan studies are coming and just how far back to the studies go? Yeah.

Yeah. So timeline actually started as a research company, which is just, you know, incredible to me. So it was founded actually in Switzerland, which is in the EPFL, which is basically like the Swiss Institute of Technology by a team of like top scientists and doctors who, and this is really like speaking to my heart was, you know, the whole idea was applying like a biotech approach to these sort of natural compounds that we find in food and just in nature in general. And to me what that means is like almost like a pharmaceutical type approach. where they are really isolating these compounds, studying their mechanism of action, really learning the safety and efficacy around them, the dosing, how they work.

And this is really it's pretty unique to the supplement world. And so urolithin A has been researched for like 15 years. So there is tons of data and safety on it, or data on safety and efficacy on it. But I think we sort of alluded to this earlier, like because there wasn't mitopure, like no one was really talking about it. And so now all of that research is really being highlighted for consumers to be able to

look at and understand. So the research, I mean, is about to explode, to be honest, I think, in a really exciting way. So there's some more studies that are going to be coming out. I talked a little bit about that one in endurance trained athletes that should be coming out. There is some research around immune health. So our immune cells require healthy mitochondria. So there's some really exciting research that should be how. happening in the upcoming, you know, hopefully in a couple of months. And then there's some really

big institutions that are studying urolithinae. The National Cancer Institute, for example, is looking at it in men with prostate cancer and looking at seeing if it can help resolve some of the inflammatory markers that we see in prostate cancer. The National Institute of Aging is studying it for metabolic health and glucose metabolism. Buck Institute is studying it for cognitive function. So there is just, you know, Like if anybody who's listening goes to like PubMed is basically almost like the Google for scientific research, right? You can like look up anything and you do a search on your allepithinae. You will see preclinical. So that means in like animals or cells, preclinical data in so many different aspects of aging, right?

Even like osteoporosis and reproductive aging. And that data sets the groundwork for human level study. So I think over the next couple of years, we're going to just see a wealth of data coming out that's saying like, oh yeah, this work. worked in mice and guess what? It works in humans too and here's how long and here's how much and here's maybe what you need to be on the lookout for. And so it's a really exciting time, I think, to be learning about urolithynate because there's just so much to uncover. So just for, I'm sure this question will come up, what's the, what is the difference between mitapurineate? Like, what is the, what is the branded version of uralithinae. Mitopure and they're, you know, in

transparency, right? If like there are some other brands out there that will have eurylithinae, allegedly is the key word there in it. Just like with any other dietary supplement, there's not always, you know, you talked about this. There's not always truth in what you see on the label and what is being marketed. And so, you know, I think I would just caution anyone, no matter what supplement, whether it's creatine or uralithine or magnesium, like you want to choose something that's third party tested and so mitopure is NSF for sport is clean label certified and as the FDA grass certified. All of the research, or almost I should say probably all the research that I just talked about that we've published and that's coming is actually using mitopure specifically.

Even if something else out there is third party tested, they maybe weren't part of any clinical data to say like that their formulation works the same way that timelines mitopure work. So all of the gold standard trials, all of the large institutions are using urolithin. I mean, I talked about that with the Chinese study. Like, we didn't even have anything to do with it, but they wanted mitopure for their study because of the quality of the dietary supplement. So that's really, yeah, so mitopure branded first clinically tested, validated urolithinae supplement out there.

Yes. I don't have company people come on my show ever or do this. Like, this is something special because I really, really believe in it. because I've spent so much time talking with you guys studying it because this is not something that I really do anymore. I just don't. I've gotten away from that. But that's how much I believe in this and how strongly I want to put this out there and literally driven me to direct so much of my study now and my life wards this because of the intrigue and the realization of, wow, this might be the key to everything I've been looking for for the past 10, 15 years that has just either I've missed or hasn't been there.

regardless, it doesn't matter. All that matters is that I know that I found it. I have somebody like you and timeline to talk with and refer to and now put this out there. So that's a thank you for me for helping me with some of my life's work and, you know, for what you guys do and for you, especially taking the time to do this with me, not only just today, but just in general, because that's a lot of things to learn and educate on and, you know, to expound upon. And it's never, I don't think people realize. I tell people all the time, I spend so many nights going to bed three and four hours after my wife because I'm just sitting in here reading because the science is always changing and there's always something different to learn. And

so I don't think people sometimes grasp and understand the amount of time that somebody likes you spend is just reading and learning. So thank you, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Well, thank you too. Because I think it's like conversations like this where we're all learning and challenging and learning from each other and just building great audiences that trust and respect, you know, their educators and their thought leaders. So thank you for doing that as well. And we love hearing from customers. We love hearing from people.

So, you know, there's any questions. There's timeline, longevity on Instagram, our website, timeline.com. And our customer support team is great. You can find me too. I'm happy to answer any questions at Jen Scheinman Nutrition. And we just, we love to hear from people. And we'll make sure also, Dylan, that all of the studies we talked about are linked

in your show notes. They're all open, access. They're all available on our website. So anyone who really does want to read the actual original published research that is in, again, third party peer reviewed journals. These are not studies that we just like did nothing with. They're, you know, they've been peer reviewed. So people can do that. They can read for it on their own and make their own decisions. And that's another thing I want to point out. When you go to this website, it's not like an infomercial. It's not one of those like as seen on TV, which anybody can go cut and paste to put on their thing. And you'd never know

the difference. This is full of real studies and like a true explanation that people can understand and read. I mean, that's where I started and I just read and I learned and then I, you know, you take it deeper. But the the verbiage is there. It's, it's easy to understand, but it's still scientific at the same time. And then the people that you see that stand behind it, that's another thing that drew me in. And it's like, these are all people I hold in a pretty high regard. They're not just movie, Hollywood influencer people, though, these are real time people that I go to for information. And I am very picky about, you know, who I discuss and talk to. So it's just, just adds to what the credibility comfort that I have with with timeline in general. So I just want to point that out.

Everything will be linked in the description, studies, websites, your contact, everything. And we'll make sure to get that out there because I want to make sure that this is widely known. Awesome. Well, thank you, Dylan. I hope your audience enjoy. and yes more to come awesome well I just want to thank you again and you know I'm sure we'll do this again we'll talk more I'm going to be putting out my own personal you know educational videos just on and not necessarily just on uralithinae but studies around mitochondria and so then my experiences and we'll just keep it going so thank you again so much it's been wonderful enlightening and selfishly I probably enjoyed this more than most people that I'm

And I had my reasons too, but it just, it was awesome. So thank you again, Jen. And all right, everybody. Well, that wraps up another one. I hope this helped everybody. And stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jameli and Jen Scheinman signing off.