The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #139 Featuring Dr. Rafael Gonzalez! A masterclass on the IMMUNE SYSTEM! The Eye Opening Guide to EVERYTHING you need to know about the IMMUNE SYSTEM!

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Starting point is 00:00:58 Creatine supports power. Might appear helps support the cellular engines that power both. When your cells thrive, everything follows. So claim your free aging muscle protocol guide and free sample of might appear gummies from Timeline at timeline.com slash Dylan. It's the science-back breakdown of exactly what's happening to your muscles as you age and how to fight back. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Gimelli podcast. So, you know, one of the huge benefits that you get when you interview so many different people is that you get introductions you really weren't ready for or weren't aware we're coming.

Starting point is 00:01:34 And that's what happened with me and my guest today. I did several interviews there back and forth with Dr. Daniel Pampa. And he said, well, I got a couple people I think are going to. going to be of significant interest to you. And I, of course, I'm going to take his, his recommendations. But this one in particular stood out to me of the ones that he sent me. And I have been excited for this interview ever since we talked. And I think that you're going to see very quickly as to why. Now, my guest today serves as the chief development and science officer for Restem Group. And he has extensive knowledge in all aspects of cellular biology, regenerative medicine, and the key to longevity,

Starting point is 00:02:11 maintaining immune health. And he has several patents and leads multiple clinical studies, which we're going to talk about today because he's got some new information that he wants to provide that I can't wait to hear about. And I specifically didn't have him tell me so I could learn right with you guys in the brand new. But he developed an immune-based therapy

Starting point is 00:02:30 using natural killer cells in the context of longevity. And it demonstrated one of the first of its kind methods to reduce immunosinessence in humans. And he's also produced a regenerative medicine exosome topical that's disrupted the cosmetic rejuvenation space. So we're going to get into all this and plenty more. My friends, welcome Dr. Rafael Gonzalez. Dylan, thank you for having me here.

Starting point is 00:02:57 Pleasure to be here and love to educate as you do. It's a lot of fun to do, especially when we talk about the most important thing in our body, the immune system. I am so stoked. You know, I've actually had some pretty strong discussions, Dr. Jeffrey Blan, and I had a really good one on the immune system, Dr. William Lee, all highlighting the importance of it. And I know that you have an extreme expertise in that. And so my knowledge base is bigger than when you and I talked. And I'm ready for you to enhance it to the highest extent amongst everything else that you talk about.

Starting point is 00:03:31 So once again, thanks for coming in here to see me. I really value anybody's time, especially yours, because I know the extent of where we're going today. So let's lead into that with some of the discussion on the immune system. But you made it very clear in what you just said, the most important. Why do you say that? The main reason is because every single disease has an immune component to it. Believe it or not, and some people say out there, well, no, if I have a genetic disease, it does not. No, there's an immune component to the progression of that disease. always is for a simple example of such is something such as pediatric duchene muscular dystrophy

Starting point is 00:04:16 which is a devastating thing for pediatric kids it's awful yet if i can help control some of the immune destruction in there i can slow down the progression of that disease that's why the immune system is so powerful there's every single disease neurological diseases we take them for granted it's mostly an immune system issue. The immune system has gone array. It's not doing what it's supposed to do, and it causes a neurological issue. Would you say that progressively over time

Starting point is 00:04:48 that immune system health has declined? Significantly. Okay. And why would that be? One of the biggest burdens is a lot of things, number one, is diet was going on, what were being fed, what we're being dealt with on a daily basis, two, the environment is really, really bad.

Starting point is 00:05:11 And three, your immune system, as you age, every cell in your body ages, no matter what, however you think about it. It's something called the hayflick limit. Every cell in your body has a finite amount of divisions, and at some juncture, it stops dividing and doesn't do much. This is the hayflick limit. But the biggest problem as you age, and you can see this, as you're developing is on a daily basis,

Starting point is 00:05:39 your immune system is challenged. Well, what happened six years ago? Six was a six, seven, it's been a long time now. Six years ago, COVID. Right. We got hit with another challenge to our immune system. Yes. Yes.

Starting point is 00:05:55 And it was a devastating challenge to the immune system. And the simple analogy that I talk about a lot of times is, listen, the UFC fighter is going to beat a standard two, three, four people on the street. But when seven, eight, ten people come at him, he's not going to win. And it's what happens on a regular basis with your immune system. It's really bad because you're challenged with daily bacteria. You're challenged with daily mold, toxins, fungus, microplastics, which is a nightmare,

Starting point is 00:06:29 metals, which are a nightmare, the environment, the pollutants, everything. your immune system has to deal with that. And if your immune system gets overwhelmed, it's a big problem. The biggest issue we're having is we go back to the COVID is the virus. And a lot of people don't understand. They think a bug is a bug is a bug. No. A virus is something that requires a host.

Starting point is 00:06:57 You are the host while this alien has come into you and it's crazy if you look at images of it, it looks like a little spaceship that basically shoots its DNA into your cells and then replicates and it lives there. So this thing knows ways of since you're required for it to live, it knows ways how to hide and how to cause havoc. And if your immune system is challenged,

Starting point is 00:07:31 or if you're dealing with, eight, ten other things, this thing is going to be a massive burden. Like there's many diseases now and there's more and more evidence coming out, especially autoimmune diseases, which are becoming really problematic, not only in the U.S., but worldwide, more and more of them resurfacing, more individuals that think they only have rheumatoor arthritis, have an an ankylosis spondylitis, have ulcerative colitis, have all these different autoimmune diseases sort of combined in one.

Starting point is 00:08:01 it's because the immune system has become somewhat hijacked in many instances. And the hijacking many times are these viruses, where we've finally identified at least one so far that is multiple sclerosis that is hijacked by Epstein-Barr virus is what causes it. So these viruses are or it's causing a lot of problems. Don't get me wrong, they're good viruses like there's good bacteria that we have to live symbiotically with. but the majority of them, specific ones, are really, really bad and detrimental to our system. What's the direct cause to yourselves that then in turn weakens the immune system?

Starting point is 00:08:41 What ends up happening is the immune system, especially in the context of an autoimmune disease, it becomes exhausted. You know, cells divide and turn over on a regular basis. Right. Your body, especially when you have an autoimmune disease, your body has now saw something as it is. foreign. So if it sees something as foreign, it goes on to overdrive to attack that foreign entity. For instance, in a particular disease that we have a clinical study for, it's called polymidocitis,

Starting point is 00:09:10 dermatomyocitis, myomyocitis, myomyomyisitis, myomeaning muscle. Muscle, it attacks muscle, it attacks skin. Eventually, these patients will have issues with their lungs because it'll start wiping out lung tissue also, which they end up succumbing to the lung portion of it because of it. And it sees your own skin, your own muscle is foreign. It's killing it. And it's on overdrive. It's not balanced. It's not in what's called a regulatory state, which is the way your immune system is supposed to be. Our body's supposedly consistently in a regulated state, which is called homeostasis. And we want to be in homeostasis. When the immune system is consistently on overdrive and cells are dividing, at some juncture we talked about.

Starting point is 00:09:54 about the first thing we talked about earlier, that hay flake limit, the cells are no longer going to be able to function correctly. And then the system says, well, wait a second, how do I, because your immune systems works in one particular way. It is attack, try to remove, try to eliminate, which is inflammation, and then to the opposite spectrum, which is called a TH1 inflammatory response, and then to the opposite spectrum, it has to heal, which is a TH2 anti-inflammatory response. But if you have too much of this, which is that inflammatory response,

Starting point is 00:10:34 this healing cannot respond. It can't do anything. The weird thing about the immune system is cancer. I was going to ask about that, but I'll let you go first. Is cancer? That cancer patient, completely opposite from that autoimmune patient,

Starting point is 00:10:49 does not mount a killing response. That individual that has cancer, and we now know, has a high amount of regulation, so there's no killing. That's one aspect of it, besides the cancer's ability to hide. Right.

Starting point is 00:11:06 It finds a way to hide, to get away from anything, and to do it. But you don't have an appropriate mounting killing response. In those patients, you normally have a healing response, but you can't heal.

Starting point is 00:11:19 anything without eliminating it. Could you just explain what causes cancer to start, like, cellularly, how it actually begins? There's many, well, there's many different things that happen, mostly mutations. So if you think of on a daily basis, you go outside and you're exposed to UV light, and you most likely will get a mutation again. Your immune system, the first responder to that, believe it or not, one of the first responders is called the natural killer cell. It is supposed to target. It is supposed to eliminate that immediately. That's when your immune systems optimize.

Starting point is 00:11:58 If it is not, then this thing goes unchecked. That unchecked has a possibility, just in the context of, let's say, skin, to go into the blood system. What people don't understand is that we're not quite there in the technology of the testing aspect. Somebody will go and they'll go get a full body scan. My body scan is completely clear. The problem is to you identify a million cells in a ball and being a cell biologist, I see this, is a spec on a table. There is no technology out there that's really going to identify that spec on the table.

Starting point is 00:12:38 We have to talk about a billion cells in a ball, which is the end of my fingertip, which is not much. That's a problem. That's something that might be identifiable. but even that's a little bit difficult to identify. Because when you talk about people have, you know, a millimeter, you know, that's what the normally catch is a millimeter, two millimeters, a centimeter. You know, a centimeter is billions of cells and it's massive. I know.

Starting point is 00:13:05 And then what people don't know, the other thing that we don't understand, which now they're starting to get a little bit more progressive on the testing aspect of it, is looking at those cells that are in, like you find it in a lesion or something, that, those cells that are found have the propensity to release cells. And these are called circulating tumor cells. And those cells, there's some testing now that you can actually detect those, which people are now getting smarter, smarter with detections of it. That is the problem when you talk about somebody who's had cancer and you talk about more than anything else, no evidence of disease versus in remission of disease. You can't find disease versus in remission of disease.

Starting point is 00:13:46 because you don't really know, and it's hard to detect, if this stuff has been circulating and if it's going to come back. The key to all of this is maintaining immune health. Would you say, in all your years of understanding and observation, and I think I know the answer, but I want to know from you, that a weakened immune system will make you more susceptible to developing cancer or cancerous cells? 1,000%.

Starting point is 00:14:12 Okay. All right. So that would, that's why I wanted you to give the full explanation. of how it caused and then relate it to the immune system in general. Yeah, something in the body's gone array and the immune system hasn't detected it, hasn't killed it. The immune system is not working optimally. So if you were, say, around cancer-causing aspects, whether and people can argue what those

Starting point is 00:14:36 are anymore, but let's just say you're around heavy chemicals that would potentially cause cancer, microplastics, etc. If you have a very strong immune system, you have a far greater. chance of not developing cancer as opposed to somebody that's got a weakened one or has kind of suffered some sort of some alterations with their immune system a thousand percent yep okay correct all right so it's it's a cellular problem but the immune system is going to play a huge role into preventing or at least mitigating the the potential spread or growth of that yeah well the immune system is the one that's got to take care of the immune cells the immune system in general whether it's

Starting point is 00:15:12 part of the innate the immediate response or the secondary response which you're you're which is a military, those have to be able to work together and eliminate and kill, regulate, and heal. They are the key to all aspects of longevity, including, believe it or not, your skin, your way your appearance is, whether you look healthy, you're not healthy, and it's an issue. And one of the things you has talked about, for instance, if you get burdened with massive metal toxicity, what does the immune system have to do? The immune system has to now go and direct it towards that. Right.

Starting point is 00:15:47 The entire immune system has to go, especially when you're older, has to go and direct it towards that. It doesn't even mount a correct short response, like when you were young, but what happened to everything else that's going on in your body, the other viruses and everything else?

Starting point is 00:16:01 Now all of these things are opportunistic. That's where these things, you know, surfaced. The simplest example of this is when you look at chicken pox or when you look at basically, you know, the age associated aspects of chicken pox, which is shingles, is it's an opportunistic virus, your immune system becomes weakened or you have stress.

Starting point is 00:16:25 Stress is a killer. Yeah. You get stress and the immune system becomes dampened, weakened. This now surfaces. Your immune system has to figure out how to remove it to clear it. When my dad passed away, my mom got shingles and she got psoriasis. And those are extremely stress-related problems. It's correct.

Starting point is 00:16:46 Okay. And that weakens your immune system and boom. Wow. Okay. Now, we kind of covered that cellular side of it. I want to shift a little bit now. There's a couple things that I want to get into with the immune system. But first, you brought up diet.

Starting point is 00:17:01 And so I want to shift to the problems in our everyday diet and how that relates to our immune system. Certainly, the buildup of inflammation is really the center of all diseases. And I'm sure it just thrashes our immune system. But can you correlate that with the food? that we're eating and then maybe touch on some of the foods that you would say are beneficial to our immune system and then others that are just destroying it. The problem with the food is the gut houses about 60% of the immune system. It's a massive immune component. And what people

Starting point is 00:17:34 don't understand if you should know this is when you eat too much or when you eat processed stuff or you eat bad stuff, why do you feel? Number one is why do you feel sick? It's because there's what's called a neural gut access. There's an inflammation that happens in the gut, and then it sparks your brain to tell you, I'm sick, I need to stop eating. That's another aspect of nausea, vomiting. It's telling you, your system is telling you to stop eating. When you feel nausea or you don't feel well, your system is telling you stop. Or it's telling you you ate something that's bad. It's a big issue because it taps the immune system and puts you in an inflamed state. Putting you in inflamed state is basically trying to resolve a gut issue when the immune system

Starting point is 00:18:21 should be dealing with everything else. Right. It should be dealing with pathogens in your vascular, in your blood system, in your tissue. It should be dealing with all of the viruses that are there keeping them at bay. It should be regulating the entire system not focused on the gut. And that's one of the things I learned was how the immune system, proportionately was so intertwined into the gut because I really wasn't aware of that. And that's when I've been getting more into the discussion of gut, leaky gut. So I've covered the basis on that a lot. But when it comes to learning about how it all ties together,

Starting point is 00:18:56 I think that you're going to have more expertise than anybody that I've talked to about that. And that's why my concern with the diet, especially, is leading to so many other problems because now I understand it's the tie into the immune system. And if you're making your immune system work one direction, you're leaving yourself wide open. It's like you're sending all your troops one way and there's no army on the other side. So if your diet is really bad and it's causing you this slew of problems over here, you get a virus, you get a COVID, you get something else. My assumption is it's a hundred times worse than what it should have been. Yep.

Starting point is 00:19:31 You're going to feel bad. It's going to take you longer to recover, especially as you age because the immune system is not functioning correctly. And it's going to be, you know, a problem. The process, for me personally, the worst thing are the processed bread, carbohydrates, there's probably nothing worse. Like here in, at least in the U.S., I avoid bread. The only bread I'll eat is like an organic sourdough. That's the extent of it because I know it has, you know, good bacteria in it.

Starting point is 00:19:59 It's done well. But other than that, I notice when I touch any form of bread, I don't feel right. I feel off. There's pastas that are similar. There's greens and rice that are similar. There's even people talk about oatmeal being good. These are oats. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:18 It's not, you know, all has cholesterol benefits. These are oats that tap your gut and your microbiome significantly. You know, I just, I focus on what's called clean, organic eating as much as possible. Eat clean. I'm not a pescatarian, vegetarian, vegan carnivore. it's an individual. You might suit well with being a vegetarian. I might be an omnivore.

Starting point is 00:20:46 I'll eat everything and I switch it up and I change it around. I don't, you know, I cannot go vegetarian. I don't feel well. I cannot go carnivore. I do not feel well. If you don't feel well, that diet's not for you. You have to find that right fix that you feel homeostatic. You feel fine on a daily basis that you're energized and you feel well.

Starting point is 00:21:07 And the other big thing that nobody focuses on is people eat way too late. Yes. I used to do it all the time. All the time I did. It's you don't understand. You sleep for a reason. You're sleeping to heal. If you're eating, where's all your energy going at 9 o'clock at night or 8 o'clock a night and you went to bed at 9.30 or something like that?

Starting point is 00:21:28 Your food is still digesting and your body doesn't have that opportunity to heal. You need that opportunity to heal. That's what sleeping is for. or it helps your immune system relax. It helps your gut, your digestive system. Your metabolic function, which is so important, has to be dimmed down. The other thing is there's only one thing that ages you.

Starting point is 00:21:50 It's what we just talked about. The biggest thing is the heat flick limit. Cells divide stop dividing. When you eat excessively, what ends up happening? Your liver has to process all that. Cells have to divide. Cells have to work on overdrive. cells age.

Starting point is 00:22:07 You got to cut it down. You got to eat clean. You got to cut it down. You know, the focus has always got to be diet, sleep, exercise. Yes. If you're not moving, you're going to lose it. And the crazy thing about it that people don't understand is those are simple.

Starting point is 00:22:25 People talk about, oh, it costs too much money to live longer to do that. No. Those are three things that you have full control over. There's no excuses. I blew my knee out. hey, guess what? I have arms. I can do a cycle with my arms. I can lift with my arms. I can do exercise with my arms. I can do breathing exercises. Those are exercises. I don't need my need to do that. Vice versa. I blow my arm. I mess up my back. I have legs to walk with. These are simple things

Starting point is 00:22:53 that anybody can do on a daily basis. Set a routine of sleeping at a certain time, stop eating at a certain time. You have full control over all that. And that doesn't cost you anything. No, I agree. I don't even want I tell you how I used to eat late at night for so many years. I did the same thing. It's terrible. It's absolutely terrible. Yeah, and then you wonder why you don't sleep well and don't feel well in the morning. The Carroll bike was designed to get meaningful benefits without spending hours training

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Starting point is 00:23:55 Carol Bike is not just changing the way we train with their innovative technology, but they are also enhancing quality of life. I have a special gift for all my listeners. link carolbike.com slash dylan and code dylan that's d y l a n to save two hundred dollars off your new carol bike today yeah you know and it's funny you brought up the oatmeal so i was like a 15 year never missed a day of oatmeal and i had several people over years tell me you need to cut it out and you know you get used to something and they start believing your own BS and i'm a freaking nutritionist and as soon as i stopped eating it man i feel so much better you know it makes you feel like hey heavy and I don't like you said there's a lot of things that you can do to improve your cholesterol

Starting point is 00:24:40 aside from freaking oatmeal you know and you get these people that get so angry I told my friend Ben Azadi the oatmeal mafia was going to come for us because they get so pissed about it and it's like and is the greatest I love you know he's great we had a we had a good good deep conversation that we just studied or sat on oats it was great because it's a polarizing thing like so many other things but I'm glad you pointed that out could you could you give a few foods that you would recommend for improving your immune system that are, you know, and whatever they are, it doesn't matter what diet it falls under. It's just simply these are good foods for your gut or immune system. Yeah, there's, there's, I mean, there's quite a few of them. You can discuss some fruit, things that increase vitamins like vitamin C, vitamin D. Depending on if you can tolerate specific types of dairy, they work well, things that have, like for instance, probiotics in them. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:36 Are really phenomenal. You know, like yogurt, Greek yogurt is phenomenal. High in protein. You know, people that can tolerate the dairy aspect of cottage cheese. It's actually, actually another thing that's actually really, really good for you. Specific fruits, things that have strong antioxidants, pomegranates, blueberries, strawberries, raspberry. As long as they're organic because it's crazy, you know, these things are sprayed.

Starting point is 00:26:00 And they're all, they're part of what's called the dirty dozen. Yeah. Watch those too. But as long as they're organic and they're clean, lean meats are good as long as they're lean because they provide the basis of proteins, amino acids, which our body functions on are really good. Specific fishes, fish you have to be careful with too. Some people say I stay away from it because the ocean's plagued with mercury and there's a bunch

Starting point is 00:26:21 of other issues, parasites. But eat clean, organic and read what you're doing. And then ultimately what it boils down to, personally, I think, is how it makes you feel. If you ate something that you don't, if somebody told you. you that something is healthy and then you eat it and you didn't feel well, then it's not for you. Like, for instance, I don't tolerate almonds. And I noticed, I found out actually later because I love almonds, that it's actually the skin. So I can do a Marcona almond perfectly fine.

Starting point is 00:26:51 But if I do the other ones, my gut mess messes up and actually get body aches, which is what's weird too from it because I don't tolerate it. And there's certain fishes I know that I can't tolerate either. I don't eat them. I stay away from them. But, you know, there's a lot of good eggs are fantastic. Yeah, and I love that you said that. And I learned that with the almonds as well several years ago.

Starting point is 00:27:11 But yeah, I mean, I was kind of curious, too, if there was any, like, comparison there in terms of, is protein better or fats better or carbs better when it comes to immune system or is it just really based on the food, not so much the macronut or micronutrient of it? You know what's the funniest thing about it is you want your immune system to be active, but you don't want your immune system to be overactive. Yep. And this is sort of something crazy. So we work with natural killer cells and we will collect people's blood to work with it.

Starting point is 00:27:44 And the unusual aspect is a lot of people talk about keto diets and keto diets. The diet's great. Don't get me wrong. But when I get blood from an individual that's in ketosis, what does ketosis sort of do? It works great in the context of maintaining health. but it also puts your system, your immune system a little bit in a quiescent state. So I can't grow cells really well. But when I asked somebody, and we've tested this before, to, before I collect your blood,

Starting point is 00:28:15 I need you to do me a favor and have some yogurt, Greek yogurt, have basically some sourdough toast. You can't. Or bring in some good complex carbohydrates into the picture. Then I'll grab your blood. then I have a little bit more of an active immune system and I can collect better. So it's something that we've noticed, you know, with it.

Starting point is 00:28:36 It is diet-specific. Individuals that do too much carnivore in the context of the immune system too, you have to watch that. Although it's done one important thing, you will have people with autoimmune diseases that will go strictly carnivore. Those people that go strictly carnivore with autoimmune diseases

Starting point is 00:28:56 do really well. because it quiesces the immune system. It's very subjective. That is it down. Yeah. Yeah. But if you want something that's going to make your immune system more active, you need to introduce complex carbs and good carbs to it.

Starting point is 00:29:13 So going with that, I'm not specific to any specific type of diet. Like, for instance, keto, carnivore, they're all different and they're dependent on you. I eat all foods, all different types. I switch it up. I'll go different depending on, you know, what I want. And the reason why I'm not specific on being vegetarian, on ketogenic, on any of those, is because when I looked at senescence and when I looked at immune function in patients from blood, I've seen that if I have an individual that is on ketosis for too long,

Starting point is 00:29:50 and I pull his blood, and this makes complete sense, I pull their blood, their NK cells are not that active. but it's like that for a reason and it's like that for a good reason because the immune system is somewhat quiescent, it's healthy, but it's quiescent. But when I want to remove and eliminate senescence, I need something that's a little bit more active

Starting point is 00:30:13 that I can grow. That's why I tell individuals when we're going to go collect their blood is I tell them, please do me a favor and eat something like an organic sourdough bread, which is the only type of bread that I would eat here in the United States

Starting point is 00:30:26 because the other ones serve, they're bad. They're really bad for you. A lot of stuff here in the U.S. is really bad for you. Eat some eggs. Eat some complex carbohydrates. Ones that are good, ones that are organic, ones that are not bad. I talk about, you know, the oatmeals are bad. Stuff like that is people do not understand.

Starting point is 00:30:45 Even, you know, I went to a conference on autism and pediatric disorders. And it's crazy what I learned there. because a lot of people, including me, I thought that like grain rice and all these ricees were good. No, they're loaded with arsenic. I tell you to stay away from those, the only type of rice you should be eating

Starting point is 00:31:09 for kids that have autism, that have cerebral palsy, have, you know, all these different issues are like California grade white rice or sushi grade white rice. That's the extent of it. You know, those, but those if you think of the kind of,

Starting point is 00:31:24 context of longevity, those are, those are not good for you because they convert to sugars a lot, too. So that's why we discuss avoiding them as we age. We discuss avoiding them. But I'm more focus on eating everything, switching it up. For me personally, I can't stay on, you know, a vegetarian diet. I can't stay on a carnivore diet. I don't feel well on all of them. I switch it up. I can't eat almonds. I found out I can't eat almonds. I removed the skin from them. I found out after I can eat Marcona because I love almonds. It caused me pain, cause me gut issues, some, some fishes that don't eat lean meats I love. Meatlean meats, I'll eat them as long as they're clean, they're all too, you know, they're good for you. And it's the way I feel good. And then the big

Starting point is 00:32:07 thing is always like we talked about earlier's stop eating at a certain time frame. Yeah, to go to sleep. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I found some blockage in my heart that I talked to you about on the phone prior and I implemented pomegranage used to try to help reverse plaque or at least stabilize and help. But pomegranates also, and I know this from, like I told you, I worked with timeline, which made me study cellular health. But the pomegranates then relates to uralitha, which is something that I use and have come to the understanding of stimulating mitophagy. So we talked about, you know, different aspects of cellular health and care. Do you think pomegranates serve that purpose well, too?

Starting point is 00:32:47 And cellular health, aside from our immune system, I'm looking this more on a cellular side. Is that something that you would recommend for cellular health? 100% because, I mean, I know people that just focus on pomegranate. Yeah. Because it's so high in antioxidants. Oxidation is what causes inflammation. Right. And we all know that.

Starting point is 00:33:05 And this is a preemptive cursor to inflammation is oxidation. The formation of free radicals. If you reduce them, which is what berries and especially pomegranate does, you will keep the immune system that it has an ability to do whatever. needs to do. I love it. Here's the thing though that sucks, like you said, is a lot of these are dirty dozen or they're sprayed and it's like you're eating these that are supposed to serve you a purpose and they're actually causing you an adverse effect if you're not eating the right ones, right? So we got to be careful when you and I say that and I always preface it just like you do.

Starting point is 00:33:41 Make sure they're organic. Make sure they're as clean as you can possibly get because otherwise you're really actually causing more problem by what you think you were doing right, you know, and it sucks. that were involved in that and around it. But one of the things I wanted to ask you, because you brought this up about looking at blood work, because everything I do revolves around data, blood panels, everything, I do a lot of hormone optimization.

Starting point is 00:34:03 So if we're looking at judging or gauging a healthy or unhealthy immune system, what blood barkers are we looking for that could potentially be off that might indicate your immune system screwed up? I published a paper 215 on this, on aging and the immune system. And the three important ones are, one of them is not that easy to access, but you can get it, is high sensitivity CRP. Very easy to test. Probably the most important one. The second one is tumor Crois Factor Alpha.

Starting point is 00:34:31 Two Menter Crois Factor Alpha is indicative of a chronic inflammatory state, a state of not functioning correctly. That's why actually there's a drug out there for autoimmune diseases that cuts that off. The problem with cutting Tuminaucrosis Factor Al is basically alpha out is you put yourself in an immune suppressed state, you put yourself more susceptible to the big C word cancer, I talked about earlier. And that's bad one. The last one is interleukin-6. The IL-6 is a lot harder to test too, but you can go out there. There's tests available that you can actually look at it because those three are indicative of age-associated diseases. And there's thousands, there's a ton of papers out there, published peer-reviewed data on thousands of patients that if these are in

Starting point is 00:35:19 inflamed, you are either in or you're heading towards a neurodegenerd disease or a cardiovascular disease. Yeah, it's wild how every single thing that you're looking for revolves around inflammation. It seems like every single problem, if you're looking for an indicator, that the high-sensity C-reactive protein tells you a lot. Yep, it tells you a ton. And there's, you know, other simple ones is you can look at a sedimentation rate, you can look at fibrenogen, and you can look at homocysteine. Well, Scysteine's too a big one, that people don't spend enough time testing and looking at two. If you look at those, all of those together, you got a complete package of some good blood work. And then the other thing is understanding is that if they tell you within range, where are you at within that range?

Starting point is 00:36:03 Because blood exams have this massive range of individuals that are really young and individuals that are really old. Well, guess what? If you're 40 years old or 45 years old and you're close to the top of that range, something's not quite right. you shouldn't be there. And the way they judge these ranges anymore, and once again, because I do a lot of stuff with testosterone for men and women, and some of these ranges are just out of freaking control.

Starting point is 00:36:28 It makes me mad. I mean, telling somebody that you're functionalable or doing good with like 190 or 200 testosterone level is just out of line. And I'm wondering, how do they gauge? And because you know this,

Starting point is 00:36:41 they're constantly changing the ratios in where you fall. How are they gauging this and coming up with what falls into being acceptable? in range. Well, I mean, it's all age. They've gone through all the way from, you know, pediatric adults and they come up with the reference range. And that's where they'll gauge you between while you're somewhere between or you're healthy based on these individuals being relatively healthy. Anything out of this range, you're not healthy, but exactly what you just said, I don't want to be a 50 or a 6, I'm a 60,

Starting point is 00:37:09 I'm 60 years old. I don't want to be 60 and have the testosterone of 150 because they're telling me you're within your age. I want to be feeling like my testosterone is when I was 30. Yeah. When I was 35, 40. Like, that's when I want to be. I want to be in that range. And that's a healthier range, I believe, for me to, you know, sustain that youthfulness.

Starting point is 00:37:30 That's, it's the same thing with the testing. You want to be in a better range. It's one of, you want it a little bit more, you know, pinpointed in that median area. Mm-hmm. Whereas, you know, safer bet to look at. Okay. I'm going to shift here. I'm going to ask you a number here.

Starting point is 00:37:44 And I'm sure you know it. and this is one of the things that just fascinated the hell out of me when I really put my efforts into studying more biology and cellular biology. How many cells do we have in our body? I don't know the exact number. Your biology may not be the same in your 40s as it was in your 20s, but your standards and goals can be even bigger. We're at a time where we have more tools and methods to not just live longer, but also healthier with better results as we age. Aging is no longer viewed as a decline. It's about optimization and time efficiency.

Starting point is 00:38:33 Training smarter and more efficient is a new standard, and we now know how to get more from the workouts we are already doing. Now, chances are your supplement stack is missing a much healthier foundation. So enhance it with Midapir, a targeted supplement that revitalizes your mitochondria, the powerhouse of your cells. Mitochondria are crucial to overall health, not just energy production. Protein builds muscle. Creatine supports power.

Starting point is 00:38:57 Midepure helps support the cellular engines that power. or both. When your cells thrive, everything follows. So claim your free aging muscle protocol guide and free sample of might appear gummies from Timeline at timeline.com slash Dylan. It's the science back breakdown of exactly what's happening to your muscles as you age and how to fight back. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Jameli podcast. So, you know, one of the huge benefits that you get when you interview so many different people is that you get introductions you really weren't ready for or weren't aware we're coming. And that's what happened with me and my guest today. I did several interviews there back and forth with Dr. Daniel

Starting point is 00:39:38 Pompea and he said, well, I got a couple people I think are going to be of significant interest to you. And I, of course, I'm going to take his, his recommendations. But this one in particular stood out to me of the ones that he sent me. And I have been excited for this interview ever since we talked. And I think that you're going to see very quickly as to why. Now, my guest today serves as the chief development and science officer for Restem Group, and he has extensive knowledge in all aspects of cellular biology, regenerative medicine, and the key to longevity, maintaining immune health. And he has several patents and leads multiple clinical studies, which we're going to talk about today because he's got some new information that he wants to provide that I can't wait

Starting point is 00:40:18 to hear about. And I specifically didn't have him tell me so I could learn right with you, in the brand new, but he developed an immune-based therapy using natural killer cells in the context of longevity, and it demonstrated one of the first of its kind methods to reduce immunosinessence in humans. And he's also produced a regenerative medicine exosome topical that's disrupted the cosmetic rejuvenation space. So we're going to get into all this and plenty more. My friends, welcome Dr. Raphael Gonzalez. Dylan, thank you for having me here. Pleasure to be here and love to educate as you do. It's a lot of fun to do, especially when we talk about the most important thing in our body, the immune system.

Starting point is 00:41:03 I am so stoked. You know, I've actually had some pretty strong discussions. Dr. Jeffrey Bland and I had a really good one on the immune system, Dr. William Lee, all highlighting the importance of it. And I know that you have an extreme expertise in that. And so my knowledge base is bigger than when you when I talked and I'm ready for you to enhance it to the highest extent amongst everything else that you talk about. So once again, thanks for coming in here to see me. I really value anybody's time, especially yours, because I know the extent of where we're going today. So let's lead into that with some of the discussion on the immune system, but you made it very clear in what you just said, the most important. Why do you say that? The main reason is because

Starting point is 00:41:52 every single disease has an immune component to it. Believe it or not, and some people say out there, well, no, if I have a genetic disease, it does not. No, there's an immune component to the progression of that disease. Always is. For a simple example of such is something such as pediatric duchin muscular dystrophy, which is a devastating thing for pediatric kids. It's awful. Yet, if I can help control some of the immune destruction in there, I can slow down the progression of that disease. That's why the immune system is so powerful. There's every single disease. Neurological diseases, we take them for granted. It's mostly an immune system issue. The immune system has gone array. It's not doing what it's supposed to do, and it causes a neurological issue.

Starting point is 00:42:42 Would you say that progressively over time that immune system health has declined, Significantly. Okay. And why would that be? One of the biggest burdens is a lot of things, number one, is diet was going on what we're being fed or being dealt with on a daily basis. Two, the environment is really, really bad. And three, your immune system, as you age, every cell in your body ages, no matter what, however you think about it. It's something called the hayflick limit.

Starting point is 00:43:19 Every cell in your body has a finite amount of divisions, and at some juncture, it stops dividing and doesn't do much. This is the hayflick limit. But the biggest problem as you age, and you can see this as you're developing, is on a daily basis, your immune system is challenged. Well, what happened six years ago? Six was a six, seven, it's been a long time now. Six years ago, COVID. Right. we got hit with another challenge to our immune system.

Starting point is 00:43:51 Yes, yes. And it was a devastating challenge to the immune system. And the simple analogy that I talk about a lot of times is, listen, the UFC fighter is going to beat a standard two, three, four people on the street. But when seven, eight, ten people come at him, he's not going to win. And it's what happens on a regular basis with your immune system. It's really bad because you're challenged with daily. bacteria, you're challenged with daily mold, toxins, fungus, microplastics, which is a nightmare,

Starting point is 00:44:26 metals, which are a nightmare, the environment, the pollutants, everything. Your immune system has to deal with that. And if your immune system gets overwhelmed, it's a big problem. The biggest issue we're having is we go back to the COVID is the virus. and a lot of people don't understand, they think a bug is a bug is a bug. No. A virus is something that requires a host. You are the host while this alien has come into you, and it's crazy.

Starting point is 00:45:01 If you look at images of it, it looks like a little spaceship that basically shoots its DNA into your cells and then replicates and it lives there. So this thing knows ways of since you're required for it to live, it knows ways how to hide and how to cause havoc. And if your immune system is challenged or if you're dealing with eight, 10 other things, this thing is going to be a massive burden. Like there's many diseases now and there's more and more evidence coming out, especially autoimmune diseases, which are becoming really problematic. not only in the U.S., but worldwide, more and more of them resurfacing,

Starting point is 00:45:47 more individuals that think they only have rheumatoor arthritis, have an ankylosis spondylitis, have ulcerative colitis, have all these different autoimmune diseases sort of combined in one. It's because the immune system has become somewhat hijacked in many instances. And the hijacking many times are these viruses, where we've finally identified at least one so far that is multiple sclerosis, that is hijacked by Epstein-Barr virus is what causes it. So these viruses are or it's causing a lot of problems.

Starting point is 00:46:20 Don't get me wrong, they're good viruses, like there's good bacteria that we have to live symbiotically with. But the majority of them, specific ones, are really, really bad and detrimental to our system. What's the direct cause to yourselves that then in turn weakens the immune system? What ends up happening is the immune system, especially in the immune system, especially in the context of an autoimmune disease, it becomes exhausted. You know, cells divide and turn over on a regular basis. Right. Your body, especially when you have an autoimmune disease, your body has now saw something as it is foreign. So if it sees something as foreign, it goes on to overdrive to attack

Starting point is 00:47:02 that foreign entity. For instance, in a particular disease that we have a clinical study for, it's called polymidocitis, dermatomyocitis, myomyocytis, myomyin. Mio meaning muscle. Muscle, it attacks muscle. It attack skin. Eventually these patients will have issues with their lungs because it'll start wiping out lung tissue also, which they end up succumbing to the lung portion of it because of it. And it sees your own skin, your own muscle is foreign. It's killing it. And it's on overdrive. It's not balanced. It's not in what's called a regulatory state, which is the way your immune system is supposed to be. Our body's supposedly consistently in a regulated state, which is called homealitis. And we want to be in homeostasis.

Starting point is 00:47:45 When the immune system is consistently on overdrive and cells are dividing, at some juncture we talked about the first thing we talked about earlier that heat flick limit, the cells are no longer going to be able to function correctly. And then the system says, well, wait a second, how do I, because your immune systems works in one particular way. It is attack, try to remove, try to eliminate, which is. inflammation, and then to the opposite spectrum, which is called a TH1 inflammatory response, and then to the opposite spectrum, it has to heal, which is a TH2 anti-inflammatory response.

Starting point is 00:48:27 But if you have too much of this, which is that inflammatory response, this healing cannot respond. It can't do anything. The weird thing about the immune system is cancer. I was going to ask about that, but I'll let you go first. is cancer. That cancer patient completely opposite from that autoimmune patient does not mount a killing response. That individual that has cancer, we now know, has a high amount of regulation, so there's no killing. That's one aspect of it, besides the cancer's ability to hide.

Starting point is 00:49:03 Right. It finds a way to hide, to get away from anything, and to do it. But you don't have an appropriate mounting, killing response. In those patients, you normally have a healing response, but you can't heal anything without eliminating it. Could you just explain what causes cancer to start, like, cellularly, how it actually begins? There's many, well, there's many different things that happen, mostly mutations. So if you think of on a daily basis, you go outside and you're exposed to UV light, and you most likely will get a mutation. in skin.

Starting point is 00:49:43 Your immune system, the first responder to that, believe it or not, one of the first responders is called the natural killer cell. It is supposed to target. It is supposed to eliminate that immediately. That's when your immune systems optimize. If it is not, then this thing goes unchecked. That unchecked has a possibility, just in the context of, let's say, skin, to go into the blood system.

Starting point is 00:50:07 What people don't understand is that we're not quite there in the technology. of the testing aspect. Somebody will go and they'll go get a full body scan. My body scan is completely clear. The problem is to you identify a million cells in a ball and being a cell biologist, I see this, is a spec on a table. There is no technology out there that's really going to identify that spec on the table. We have to talk about a billion cells in a ball, which is the end of my fingertips.

Starting point is 00:50:42 which is not much. That's a problem. That's something that might be identifiable, but even that's a little bit difficult to identify. Because when you talk about people have, you know, a millimeter, you know, that's what they normally catch is a millimeter, two millimeters, a centimeter. You know, a centimeter is billions of cells in a, it's massive.

Starting point is 00:51:02 I know. And then what people don't, the other thing that we don't understand, which now they're starting to get a little bit more progressive on the testing aspect of it is looking at, that those cells that are in, like you find it in a lesion or something like that, those cells that are found have the propensity to release cells. And these are called circulating tumor cells. And those cells, there's some testing now that you can actually detect those,

Starting point is 00:51:29 which people are now getting smarter, smarter with detections of it. That is the problem when you talk about somebody who's had cancer and you talk about more than anything else, no evidence of disease versus in remission disease, you can't find disease versus in remission of disease, because you don't really know, and it's hard to detect if this stuff has been circulating and if it's going to come back. The key to all of this is maintaining immune health. Would you say in all your years of understanding and observation, and I think I know the answer, but I want to know from you, that a weakened immune system will make you more susceptible to

Starting point is 00:52:06 developing cancer or cancerous cells? 1,000% okay all right so that would that's why I wanted you to give the full explanation of how it caused and then relate it to the immune system in general yeah something in the body's gone array and the immune system hasn't detected it hasn't killed it the immune system is not working optimally so if you were say around cancer causing aspects whether and people can argue what those are anymore but let's just say you're around heavy heavy chemicals that would potentially cause cancer, microplastics, etc. If you have a very strong immune system, you have a far greater chance of not developing cancer as opposed to somebody that's got a weakened one or has kind of suffered some sort of some alterations with their immune system. A thousand percent, yep. Okay. Correct. All right. So it's a cellular problem, but the immune system is going to play a huge role into preventing or at least mitigating the potential spread or growth of that. Yeah, well, the immune system is the one that's got to take care of the immune cells,

Starting point is 00:53:07 the immune system in general, whether it's part of the innate, the immediate response, or the secondary response, which is a military, those have to be able to work together and eliminate and kill, regulate, and heal. They are the key to all aspects of longevity, including, believe it or not, your skin, your way your appearance is, whether you look healthy, you're not healthy, and it's an issue. And one of the things you has talked about, for instance, if you get burdened with a massive metal toxicity, what does the immune system have to do? The immune system has to now go and direct it towards that.

Starting point is 00:53:44 The entire immune system has to go, especially when you're older, has to go and direct it towards that. It doesn't even mount a correct short response, like when you were young, but what happened to everything else that's going on in your body, the other viruses and everything else? Now all of these things are opportunistic.

Starting point is 00:54:02 That's where these things surface. The simplest example of this is when you look at chicken pox or when you look at basically, you know, the age associated aspects of chicken pox, which is shingles, is it's an opportunistic virus. Your immune system becomes weakened or you have stress. Stress is a killer. Yeah. You get stress and the immune system becomes dampened, weakened. This now surfaces. your immune system has to figure out how to remove it to clear it.

Starting point is 00:54:36 When my dad passed away, my mom got shingles and she got psoriasis, and those are extremely stress-related problems. And that weakens your immune system and boom. Wow. Okay. Now, we kind of covered that cellular side of it. I want to shift a little bit now. There's a couple things that I want to get into with the immune system,

Starting point is 00:54:57 but first you brought up diet, and so I want to shift to the problems in our every day diet and how that relates to our immune system, certainly the buildup of inflammation is really the center of all diseases. And I'm sure that just thrashes our immune system. But can you correlate that with the foods that we're eating and then maybe touch on some of the foods that you would say are beneficial to our immune system and then others that are just destroying it? The problem with the food is the gut houses about 60% of the immune system. It's a massive immune component. And what people don't understand if you should know this is when you eat too much or when you eat processed stuff or you eat bad stuff, why do you feel? Number one is why do you feel

Starting point is 00:55:41 sick? It's because there's what's called a neural gut access. There's an inflammation that happens in the gut and then it sparks your brain to tell you I'm sick. I need to stop eating. That's another aspect of nausea, vomiting. It's telling you, your system is telling you to stop eating. When you feel nausea or you don't feel well, your system is telling you stop or it's telling you you ate something that's bad. It's a big issue because it taps the immune system and puts you in an inflamed state. Putting you in inflamed state is basically trying to resolve a gut issue when the immune system should be dealing with everything else. Right. It should be dealing with pathogens in your vascular, in your blood system, in your tissue.

Starting point is 00:56:27 It should be dealing with all of the viruses that are there. keeping them at bay. It should be regulating the entire system, not focused on the gut. And that's one of the things I learned was how the immune system proportionately was so intertwined into the gut, because I really wasn't aware of that. And that's when I've been getting more into the discussion of gut, leaky gut. So I've covered the basis on that a lot. But when it comes to learning about how it all ties together, I think that you're going to have more expertise than anybody that I've talked to about that. And that's why my concern with the diet, especially is leading to so many other problems because now I understand it's the tie into the

Starting point is 00:57:06 immune system. And if you're making your immune system work one direction, you're leaving yourself wide open. It's like they're sending all your troops one way and there's no army on the other side. So if your diet is really bad and it's causing you this slew of problems over here, you get a virus, you get a COVID, you get something else. My assumption is it's a hundred times worse than what it should have been. Yep. You're going to feel. bad. It's going to take you longer to recover, especially as you age, because the immune system is not functioning correctly. And it's going to be, you know, a problem. The process, for me, personally, the worst thing are the process, breads, carbohydrates. There's probably nothing worse.

Starting point is 00:57:44 Like here in, at least in the U.S., I avoid bread. The only bread I will eat is like an organic sourdough. That's the extent of it. Because I know it has, you know, good bacteria in it. It's done well. But other than that, I notice when I touch any form of bread, I don't feel right. I feel off. There's pastas that are similar. There's grains and rice that are similar. There's even people talk about oatmeal being good. These are oats.

Starting point is 00:58:14 Yeah. It's not, you know, all has cholesterol benefits. These are oats that tap your gut and your microbiome significantly. You know, I just, I focus on what's called clean, organic, eating as much as possible. Eat clean. I'm not a pescatarian, vegetarian, vegan carnivore. It's an individual. You might suit well with being a vegetarian. I might be an omnivore. I'll eat everything and I switch it up and I change it around. I don't, you know, I cannot go vegetarian. I don't feel well. I cannot go carnivore. I do not feel well. If you don't feel well, that diet's not for you. You have to find that right

Starting point is 00:58:57 fix that you feel homeostatic, you feel fine on a daily basis that you're energized and you feel well. And the other big thing that nobody focuses on is people eat way too late. Yes. I used to do it all the time. All the time I did. It's you don't understand. You sleep for a reason. You're sleeping to heal. If you're eating, where's all your energy going at nine o'clock a night or eight o'clock a night and you went to bed at 9.30 or something like that? Your food is still digesting. You're And your body doesn't have that opportunity to heal. You need that opportunity to heal. That's what sleeping is for.

Starting point is 00:59:34 It helps your immune system relax. It helps your gut, your digestive system. Your metabolic function, which is so important, has to be dimmed down. The other thing is there's only one thing that ages you. It's what we just talked about. The biggest thing is the heat flick limit. Cells divide. When you eat excessively, what ends up happening?

Starting point is 00:59:56 your liver has to process all that. Cells have to divide. Cells have to work on overdrive. Cells age. You got to cut it down. You got to eat clean. You got to cut it down. You know, the focus has always got to be diet,

Starting point is 01:00:13 sleep, exercise. Yes. If you're not moving, you're going to lose it. And the crazy thing about it that people don't understand is those are simple. People talk about, oh, it costs too much money to live longer to do that. No. those are three things that you have full control over. There's no excuses.

Starting point is 01:00:30 I blew my knee out. Hey, guess what? I have arms. I can do a cycle with my arms. I can lift with my arms. I can do exercise with my arms. I can do breathing exercises. Those are exercises.

Starting point is 01:00:43 I don't need my knee to do that. Vice versa, I blow my arm. I mess up my back. I have legs to walk with. These are simple things that anybody can do on a daily basis. Set a routine of sleeping at a certain time. stop eating at a certain time, you have full control over all that,

Starting point is 01:00:58 and that doesn't cost you anything. No, I agree. I don't even want to tell you how I used to eat late at night for so many years. I did the same thing. It's terrible. It's absolutely terrible.

Starting point is 01:01:06 And then you wonder why you don't sleep well.

The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #139 Featuring Dr. Rafael Gonzalez! A masterclass on the IMMUNE SYSTEM! The Eye Opening Guide to EVERYTHING you need to know about the IMMUNE SYSTEM!

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