The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #146 Featuring Ben Azadi! KETO FLEX: The Massively Impactful New Book from the Keto King Ben Azadi! The ULTIMATE INTERVIEW on KETO and FOOD Science!

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Starting point is 00:01:26 So as you can see, I am in the coolest studio. I've been in a lot of studios, a lot. And this is by far the coolest studio for a variety of reasons. But I am down here in Miami, one of the other favorite places in the world that I have. but my friend here, I cannot say enough about everything about him and what he has done and what he's doing. And you've seen him on my show before when his first book came out, which was one of my favorite books. And I have put so many people on it and tried my best to get everybody to read it. What you taught in that book, Metabolic Freedom, it changed so many lives that helped me help so many people.

Starting point is 00:02:12 love and that's why I was so excited when I got the invite to come down here and hang out with you and know that you have a new one coming out. My friend is a bestseller. He has a plaque in here from YouTube, which is just blinding on how amazing it is. A million subscribers and one of, if not the best YouTube channels, not just in the hell space, in all space. and the resonation that I share with you and what you've taught me and given to me that's given me the ability to be better and so many other people, I can't say enough.

Starting point is 00:02:47 The new book is called Ketaflex July 21st. I was blessed to have an early copy, but this is another life-altering book. You guys know who I'm with, but I'm going to give him an introenter anyway. My friend Benazotti. Thank you for that amazing intro. My friend Dylan, welcome back to Miami.

Starting point is 00:03:06 Thanks for coming to the studio. Like I said, I was so happy when I got the invite. There was no way that I was going to hesitate to come down here as much as my wife hates me to travel. I love what you've done here. I love what you do. You deserve all of this and more. And I just can't wait to learn more about your new book and different things that you're doing right now. So I'm going to get everything out of you that I can today.

Starting point is 00:03:31 My parents do it. I'm ready. All right. Well, okay. The first book really changed. lives when it came to diet and food and an understanding of so many different aspects of being metabolically flexible. Before we get into the keto flex, would you just tell everybody what it means to be metabolically flexible and why it is so important? Yeah, I'll first answer that by showing you

Starting point is 00:03:58 what it means when you're not metabolically flexible and why that is not good for you. So 93% of Americans are metabolically challenged. They've had some sort of metabolic dysfunction. That's a high percentage. 93 out of 100 people out there are dealing with some sort of metabolic issue. They are metabolically inflexible. And you see it going through the airports. You see it at theme parks. You see it just walking around downtown neighborhoods. And people are unhealthy. That God design us to be that way, to have all these symptoms. You know that's not true. God designed the buyer to be self-healing. When you're metabolically inflexible, your metabolism has forgotten in how to burn stored fat for energy.

Starting point is 00:04:40 So you have this sort of dilemma where people have all this extra weight on them. They're obese. They have clearly fat on their face, on their stomach, on their love handles. They have this nasty organ fat, the visceral fat. Yet they can't access it for fuel. It's there to be accessed for fuel, but it's locked. It's blocked. They're metabolically inflexible.

Starting point is 00:05:00 And it's blocked because their hormones are off. It's blocked because insulin is high. And when you're living, that way, Dylan, you're going to have symptoms. Like, I could walk into a room and I could spot metabolic syndrome with my eyes. I could see it by looking at skin tags. If I see people with skin tags, they have insulin resistance. Those are little things that pop up in your eyebrows, your neck. If they have brown patches, they have insulin resistance. If they have like this round, hard belly, they've got this visceral fat insulin resistance. And of course, I could ask them

Starting point is 00:05:32 questions like, hey, how do you feel after you eat a meal? Are you good with your energy or is your digestion fine, or do you feel like you crash and you need a snack? And most people are going to say they crash. And that's a sign of metabolic inflexibility. So metabolic freedom and metabolic flexibility is working the way God designed your body. It's taking food, turning into energy, having amazing energy from when you wake up in the morning to when you go to bed at night, being able to train and recover, which I know is important to you. Being able to have your true personality show up for your family, your coworkers, customers, your day-to-day life. That's what I want for humanity. That's where I want for the entire world. That's why I wrote metabolic freedom. It's so sad to see

Starting point is 00:06:16 so many people struggle with all these symptoms. And I've been there myself. I thought it was because I had bad genetics. I thought it was because my body was working against me or my metabolism was broken or was just aging. It wasn't any of that. I was sending my body the wrong signals. and my body was doing exactly what it was designed to do, which was to survive and protect myself at all cost, which means store fat. So when you change the signal, the response changes inside of your body.

Starting point is 00:06:46 The ultimate goal, which we'll talk about here today, is what are those signals we're sending the body? What's the interference? Remove the interference. The body heals itself. And that's what metabolic freedom was about, and then it goes to the next level with the new book. Excellent.

Starting point is 00:06:59 So metabolism. I had a conversation recently with Dr. David, Pearl Mooder. And he broke down metabolism in a way I'd never heard and explained to me just how important it was and the role it played in every aspect of us. Can you give me an explanation on your end of what metabolism is? I think most people think metabolism is though, oh, I have a fast metabolism or oh, I have a slow metabolism. Can you explain or do you have a nice breakdown of understanding of what it is and why it's so crucial in all aspects? Everything runs on metabolism, right?

Starting point is 00:07:37 I'll give a more simplified, mass understanding of it for the audience here today. Metabolism simply means transform. That's what the Greek definition of it, transform. What does that mean? That means you take energy from the food you eat, whether it's carbs, protein, and fat. You take energy from red light, sunlight. You take energy from oxygen and you transform that. Your cells transform it into energy.

Starting point is 00:08:03 Right? So you take a substrate, carbohydrates, any kind of food, or even sunlight and oxygen, and you transform it into energy. That's what metabolism is. A healthy metabolism could have carbs and create energy and burn fat or protein or any kind of macronutrient out there. You could fast and do the same thing and just rely on your own body fat for fuel. That's what a healthy metabolism does.

Starting point is 00:08:26 What is not true is the speeding up of the metabolism or a fast metabolism or a slow metabolism. There's actually, that's not how the metabolism works. It doesn't operate by speed. Yeah. There's no such thing as a fast metabolism. It's either efficient or inefficient. Right. Of course.

Starting point is 00:08:45 And I don't know what Dr. Promoter said with his explanation, but that's how it works. Like, it's either an efficient metabolism that could use any substrate that's available, turn to energy, burn fat and feel good. Or it's inefficient where you can only use sugar, like 93% of people. And you're locked into that. And then you're burning sugar all day long. You're relying on snacking and grazing and car. carbohydrates, which is not efficient. So we want a flexible, efficient metabolism. That was that saying when we were kids or the kid that could eat whatever they want. Oh, it's because they have a fast metabolism.

Starting point is 00:09:15 Right. That comment. Anyway, we'll leave the 80s and 90s stuff out of this for now. So, okay, now we talked about this two. One, and I want to get into your book now, we've talked about how diets are tools or ways of life, right? And you know, you know how this is, how polarizing that these diets or tools are and how people are on one side or the other or the other or the other. And there's this always us fight about people that hate carbs, love carbs, people that hate oatmeal, love oatmeal. We've had that talk. You've been a proponent of keto for a very, very long time.

Starting point is 00:09:56 I started off as a non-proponent without any understanding just cuts, just because that's what I was told. This was a long time ago. This was well over a decade ago. And once I started to actually learn how to do it, what it was, then I saw the merit and the value. And you taught me a lot. I'm not a big fan of completely cutting any nutrient out at all for too long. I do see the merit in doing it.

Starting point is 00:10:21 I absolutely do. Can you explain to me before we talk about the press? of your book, in short, so people understand what an actual true ketogenic diet is, what does it mean to be in ketosis, like a simple breakdown so that we can transition into the flow of the book a little bit. But I think people have either a misunderstanding or misinterpretation, and they have this basically facade they've created on how bad or how good it is. Yeah, I see the same thing. You're exactly right. You know, keto is not even a diet. It's a metabolic process. Okay. Which makes it very different than any other diet out there.

Starting point is 00:10:56 because ketosis is when your body is breaking down stored fat for energy, it produces ketones. And I'll kind of break down how that works. But I first want to make this point, there's nothing new about keto. Yeah. It's just nuanced or new to some people. But it's been around for as long as humans have existed. All of our ancestors utilize ketosis. How do I know that?

Starting point is 00:11:18 Well, they didn't have food readily available to them. They had to fast. And even when they had food available, they didn't have carbohydrates available year around. Yeah. So they have protein and fat. So they entered ketosis. If they did not have that ability to burn fat and produce ketones, we would not exist today. We would have gone extinct because they would have not been able to function. They would have been blubbering idiots. And they would now be able to hunt and kill and stay alive. So it's just a different fuel source. It's a very valuable fuel source. When babies are born into this world and babies that are breastfed, they're in ketosis.

Starting point is 00:11:53 breast milk has saturated fat and cholesterol, and that is the reason why it helps the neurological development of that baby's brain at that time. It's very important. That baby is naturally going in and out of states of ketosis, and we're designed to do that. But then what happens is we grow up and we eat high carbohydrate processed junk food. We're eating 17 to 23 times a day, which is the average person. They eat 17 to 23 times a day. What? I know. And then we're teaching the body to burn sugar and only sugar. And to your point, there's nothing wrong with eating carbs. There's nothing wrong with burning sugar unless you're stuck burning sugar and that's your only fuel source.

Starting point is 00:12:32 Right. Then you have all those problems. So what happens is the hormone insulin is what unlocks ketosis. Insulin, get this, there's hundreds of hormones inside of the body hanging. Hundreds did. But only one hormone is the primary hormone that tells your body store fat. And that hormone is insulin. When it's high, you are storing.

Starting point is 00:12:53 fat. Period. When it's low, you access your own body fat for fuel. So when we look at the three macronutrons, carbohydrates, protein, and fat. It is carbohydrates that will spike blood, insulin more than protein in fat. So when you're spiking it by eating high carbs and eating processed carbs and eating it throughout the entire day, glucose and insulin, glucose and insulin, store fat, then you have this issue with metabolic syndrome that we were talking about. So we need to teach these people to go back to their fat burning ways. They're essentially in a keto deficiency. So you do that by manipulating your macronutrients. You do that by lowering your carbohydrate intake, increasing protein and fat, eliminating your snacking, having just three meals a day to start,

Starting point is 00:13:39 protein and fat focused. Now you lower blood sugar, you lower blood insulin, then your body makes the switch to burn stored fat for fuel. Your belly fat, your love handles, the visceral fat. That fat is sent to the liver, the liver uses it for energy, and then it produces ketones. And those ketones then flood the bloodstream, fuel the brain, fuel the muscle, fuel the heart. And I talk about this in keto flex. I went down the rabbit hole of stunning the electrons transport chain, which is how your mitochondria produces energy. It's part of metabolism, right? And it's very, very complex. I don't completely understand it myself, very honest with you. But I have a good understanding of it, but I'm not an expert on that electron transport chain. But here's what I did

Starting point is 00:14:20 find in what I put in the book. I was looking at what happens in the metabolism when your mitochondria are using sugar as a fuel source versus ketones. Right. And what I found was that when it's using sugar, your mitochondria starts outputting about 32 to 36 of these ATP molecules, which are these energy units the mitochondria produce. But when it's using ketones, it's 400% more ATP. Do you think about that? Your cells literally produce 400% more energy. It's like your iPhone being able to

Starting point is 00:14:57 last 400% longer. Everybody would want to pay for that, right? So what happens is the cells in the body that have the highest concentration of mitochondria benefit from this the most, which is the brain. The brain has the highest concentration of mitochondria.

Starting point is 00:15:13 There are regions in the brain that have millions of mitochondria in a single cell. Then you have the eyes, you have the testicles, you have the ovaries, you have the heart. These are the cells that really benefit from ketosis. So one of the first things people notice when I do this the right way, keto, my brain fog is gone. I'm mentally clear and sharp. I feel like I can actually focus on a task and finish the task.

Starting point is 00:15:35 I'm not all over the place, scattered mind. Then it calms hunger. It calms inflammation. It calms insulin. You start burning fat. But you don't burn fat because you're focusing on weight loss. You're burning fat because you're lowering inflammation and insulin. insulin. So ketosis is not to be used for fat loss is to be used for health, but that is the way

Starting point is 00:15:55 it works. You don't lose weight to get healthy. You get healthy to lose weight. There's a big difference that. That's right. Right. So when we think about somebody's overweight, like I used to be obese, I never had a weight problem. I had a weight symptom. That's why focusing on calories does not work because it's focused on the symptom, not the actual cause. And if you keep focusing on calories, is it's like this, Dylan. I talk about this in KetoFlex is a funny example. It's like having access to some of the richest people in the world. Let's say you're at like a conference and there's Elon Musk, there's Warren Buffett, there's Bill Gates, Love him, Rahatim, he's a billionaire, right? But you have the opportunity to raise your hand and ask Elon Musk or Warren Buffett, how did you get so

Starting point is 00:16:40 wealthy? Teach me your ways. I want to be rich like you. Imagine you're able to ask them this question. And they look at you, they're on a panel. And they're like, Dylan, it's very, very, you're very, Very simple. Spend less than you earn. Next question? Okay. You would be left off with like, okay, that makes sense, but what's the actual solution? It's the same thing when you tell people just eat less and move more. You're not giving them a solution. No. It kind of makes sense, but how do you actually do it? So ketosis is one of the powerful health tools to lose weight by default. It's a side effect of getting healthy.

Starting point is 00:17:17 So I think that was a long answer. No, no. But ketosis is an incredible metabolic process when it's used the right way. So what do you say to calories in calories out, bros? I say that, you know, calories have its role. Yeah. Calories matter. They're just not important.

Starting point is 00:17:32 They're a distraction. And what I would say to calorie in versus calorie out bros, they're called the SICO bros. I get the comments all the time. I'm sure you do as well. You know what I tell them? I say, look, God bless you, but you need to catch up. You need to catch up with how the body actually works. Stop looking at just research studies.

Starting point is 00:17:53 Work with enough people and you'll understand that it's not about calories. It's about hormones. It's about how those calories create a different signal inside of your body. I taught the calories in versus calories out thing for many, many years. I had a gym here that I owned in Miami, a CrossFit gym, my friend Chris, who's sitting right there. That's how I met him. I used to train him. and I hosted seminars at my gym, the science of fat loss,

Starting point is 00:18:19 and I would teach the members how to calculate your total daily energy expenditure, how to create a deficit, and how to lose weight, just focused on calories. And you know what? It worked for most people in the beginning. Yeah, until it did. Until it did not. Because you could only keep cutting your calories so much to the point where the metabolism adapts and energy slows down. It doesn't work.

Starting point is 00:18:41 When you focus on calories, you're prioritized. willpower and discipline. And you're making it very difficult instead of efficiency. Instead of efficiency. And we've seen this with the biggest loser TV show. The other than these contestants lost all this weight, caloric restriction.

Starting point is 00:18:58 Most of them gained it back. They wrecked their hormone. They wrecked their metabolism. There's a better way. So what are we in hell? The SICO bros, just to catch up. Yeah. I've never met one person

Starting point is 00:19:07 who went from the SICO method of calories in versus calories out to the hormone method and then went back to the calories. Right. Or has sustainability. Correct. Or lack thereof. You know, what's funny, or not so funny, I tried to live by that model forever. I was come from the fitness world. Bodybuilding world, yeah. And this, and I ask, how do you explain this? And I know you can't relate everything to yourself, but all those years I told you I starved.

Starting point is 00:19:34 So I'm eating 15 to 1,800 calories a day. Why was I stuck at certain weights and couldn't drop? And then why all of a sudden when I started to eat 2,800 to 3,000 calories a day did my body fat just keep going down? And my muscle go up. And yet all the fat went down. It doesn't seem to add up. Can I add to that? Yeah, because that's such a good point, bro.

Starting point is 00:20:00 I love that you share that. I'm writing a new book. You don't know this, but I'm actually writing a new book that's coming out next year on belly fat. Oh, and it's like 70% done. And there's a chapter in there about this, and it's fresh in my mind. And it's about this guy here, Chris.

Starting point is 00:20:14 And you can't see him off camera. You can't hear him, but he's sitting here. About last December, so, what, five, six months ago, he came to me, and he was very much overweight. And he was in a caloric deficit for years. Years, years, years. His body was in this starvation mode. And what I did with Chris, I essentially tripled his caloric intake.

Starting point is 00:20:40 And you lost, what, how much weight in the last? 27 pounds. 27 pounds in the first 30 days, but then how much total since then? Three. Close to 40. Close to 40. By tripling his caloric intake. How do you explain that, Jimbrose, caloric calories and calories?

Starting point is 00:20:57 versus calories out bro. So the way that I explained in the book, I just wrote this, here's the analogy. It's like if you lived in Alaska, let's say you lived in the middle of the woods and you lived in a cabin, but there was no heating system. The only way to heat the cabin was with like a fire. But it's the summer. So the temperatures are nice. There's no need to burn the firewood. You're totally fine. But you know in a few months it's going to be fall and it's going to be winter and it's going to be so brutally cold. So you start storing firewood to get ready for the cold winter months. This is your precious fuel supply, right? You need that firewood to stay alive, otherwise you would freeze to death.

Starting point is 00:21:31 Right. Winter rolls around, but you've only been able to kind of store about 20 logs of firewood. But you have about four months of really cold temperature. So what are you going to do? You're going to burn that firewood as slowly as possible to preserve that precious fuel supply, right? Right. When you're in a caloric restriction, that fuel supply, the firewood, is your body fact. your body's going to burn it as slowly as possible to preserve its life.

Starting point is 00:22:00 Right. It's doing it to save your life. Yeah. But here's the thing. I came to Chris and I said, I'm going to triple your caloric intake. That's like somebody coming over to your cabin and saying, oh, Dylan, you only have 20 logs of firewood. Let me dump a couple hundred for you because I have thousands. Now what are you going to do? You're going to turn on the burning. You're going to burn that firewood. You're not going to be scarce about it. you're going to ramp up the bird I eat, because now you're not in fear mode anymore.

Starting point is 00:22:27 When you actually signal to your metabolism, you're not going through a famine. You're not having to worry about caloric restriction. Eat more food. It signals safety. Safety downregulates your nervous system. Safety lowers cortisol. It lowers adrenaline. And then your body starts releasing the extra weight because it was in such a dearful scarcity preservation mode with the long-term caloric.

Starting point is 00:22:52 mode with the long-term caloric restriction, his body said, Chris, you're safe. Even though you're having an abundance of calories, let's burn those calories. Let's burn the body fat. And you can't explain that to the gym bros, to the Sikko bros, I should say, because they think it's all about calories in versus calories out. Well, your body never got that message. Yeah. It's about hormones. That's the most important thing. They're still listening to eight crack table. Like, they didn't get back, you know, I mean, but that's, that's like essentially what it is. It's this, it's painful, honestly, to see. And you know what? When I was transitioning to eating more, I still would do this while I'm not working on the weekend, so I'm going to eat very

Starting point is 00:23:29 little. And it was like still hindering me. And then as soon as I was like, I won't eat quite as much, but it's going to be pretty damn close. And then boom, just kept coming off, coming off, coming off. And it just, starving yourself is the worst thing that you could ever do for multitudes of reasons. So thank you for explaining that and covering it. Today's episode is brought to you by my great friends at Ginfinity. One thing that I've learned over the years is that the highest performers do not rely on assumptions. They rely on data. And that's especially true when it comes to NAD. Everyone is talking about boosting NAD levels, but very few people actually know where their levels are to begin with, whether their protocol is working, or how much they even need.

Starting point is 00:24:12 And that's what makes Ginfinity different, which is why I am thrilled to announce that I have teamed up with Ginfinity to offer the new Dylan Jameli NAD optimization protocol powered by Ginfinity. This protocol provides you the Ginfinity intracellular NAD test and supplies you with the most complete and trusted NAD boosting supplement and protocol in existence, along with proper guidance to ensure that you are optimizing your health, performance, and longevity. So check out the link in the show notes and start taking control of your health today. Let me ask you this. Over these years, one, when did you start to develop this affinity for keto?

Starting point is 00:24:54 And how has your mind changed over time to where we are now? Like, has it strengthened on your like or love of keto? How has any concepts for you changed from where they may have been at the start and things that you may go back on that you've said or beliefs that you had before? Have they changed? Or have you double and triple down on things? Like, what has evolved? There's been a lot that I changed my mind on when it comes to keto. The first thing is that I used to believe, so I got into ketosis and I started teaching it

Starting point is 00:25:23 and using it in 2013. And I thought that it was like the B-end end all. Like you should be in continuous long-term pitosis for the rest of your life. It's the greatest thing ever. Like, do it forever. May women do it the same way. I do not believe in that anymore. I don't agree that you should be in long-term continuous ketosis.

Starting point is 00:25:43 That's where keto flex comes. comes in. It's flexing in and out of ketosis, hence the metabolic flexibility. And the reason why is because when you're in ketosis, it's a mild stress to your metabolism. That's where you get the benefit of that mitochondria and the ATP output. The reason why that's happening is because that mild stress signals to your mitochondria reproduced and it creates mitochondrial biogenesis, the creation to new mitochondria and then just massive ATP output. Short term, it's so beneficial. long term, that good positive stress turns into a stress that your body's not adapting to, then your hormones tank, your testosterone, your sex hormones like estrogen and progesterone,

Starting point is 00:26:26 your T3 hormone starts to drop. It's too much of a stress. And for women, it happens a lot faster than men. But by introducing cyclical keto, higher healthy carb days from time to time, which I teach how to do that in the book, you actually make these hormonal conversions so you get the best the both worlds. You get all the benefits of ketosis and then the drawback of long-term ketosis. So that's the first thing I changed my mind on. The second thing, I used to teach ketosis should be very, very high fat, moderate to low protein, and very, very low carbohydrates. Most people kind of go on Google and they see that's the way it should be structured. Yeah. I don't agree to that structure anymore, especially with the protein part. So in Ketoflex, I actually emphasize that protein should be

Starting point is 00:27:12 high with keto because the muscle building part, you know the value of building muscle. And if you don't get enough protein, it's going to be hard to build muscle. So I'm actually a fan of high protein ketogenic approaches. So I talk about that. And I was against that back in the day. And then the third thing that I changed my mind on was the fasting part of it. Because I used to also love fasting and I still do, but too much of a good thing turns into a bad thing with fasting. Right. So I was somebody who fasted too much. and I thought men and women should fast the same way. I don't agree to that anymore.

Starting point is 00:27:48 I think fasting should be balanced with feasting, and I think, and I know women should do it differently than men. So that's why I wrote a chapter in KetoFlex on how women who have a menstrual cycle do keto and fasting, how women who are in postmenopausal years do keto and fasting and then a different chapter on how men do it. It needs to be customized. It's not a cookie cutter approach. And those are things that I did not have an awareness of back when I started

Starting point is 00:28:12 teaching it back in 2013. I love that. I've been that way too with the fasting, especially, where too much of a good thing generally turns into a bad thing. Yeah. Look, we're wired that way. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way, but it's that thing we don't make the same mistakes twice, right? So that's good, but that's good that you are constantly learning and then able to go back and correct because, I mean, that's what life is, is trial and error. Right. I mean, this is really trial and error all of it because everybody's different. I think, though, that, when it comes to this, that people do seem to adapt quite well to it. Do you run into a lot of people that are resistant that end up loving it?

Starting point is 00:28:54 Like run using keto as a tool? Yeah, I see that all the time. So I've taken about 10,000 plus people through these protocols. Yeah, through my courses. And I've seen people go on both ends of it, right? They're resistant to it. How can I lower my carbs that much? I'm so used to eating two to three times.

Starting point is 00:29:12 No, sorry, 17 times a day. Not two to three times a day. That's what they want to get to. That's actually a study looking at... Wow. Dr. Don Clem did a patient population study where he had hundreds of people right down in their journal every time they ate something,

Starting point is 00:29:28 whether it was a meal or a snack, and the average American was eating 17 to 23 times a day. And if I get three or four, I'm like, wow, it's a lot. That's right. It's glucose and insulin spike. So anyways, they go. from that and they're like, there's no way I could drop it down to three meals a day. There's no way I could lower my carbs under 50 grams a day. But the way that I teach it is a gradual approach.

Starting point is 00:29:51 We don't do cold turkey approaches. I don't agree to that. No. It's gradually manipulating carbs, increasing protein and fat, reducing the snacking and then getting rid of the snacking. And then they fall in love with it. And then they want to stay there. And then they're afraid to actually add the flex day in because they felt so good on ketone. Then I explain the analogy you just gave you with the firewood applies to long. and trim ketosis is why I explained actually will help you break a plateau or prevent a plateau when you have that flex day. But people are resistant, especially people that have been sugar burners for so long. And when I bring up the word fasting to these individuals, I could see it in their

Starting point is 00:30:27 eyes. It's like a deer in headlights. And it's like me asking them to hold their breath for 10 minutes where they talk about fasting, right? But the way did I explain it to them is like, we don't even practice fasting right off the bed. First, I get them fat adapted. I think. help them, I teach them how to burn fat for fuel instead of sugar. Then we start fasting and that's how it's broken down in keto flex. When you were talking about now you're kind of like heavier on the protein side, let's just take a percentage. Yeah. Are you like, because like I try to go about 40, 40, 40, 20, 20, carb. Sometimes it's like 45 fat, 40 protein 15 carb. What's your percentage that you kind of stick with? Or do you have one? I don't have a percentage when I have a macro nutrient

Starting point is 00:31:10 number that I did. Yeah. So it's a little bit different, but you could kind of plug it into a percentage at least. In general, for protein, it's a gram of protein per pound of your ideal body weight. So if somebody weighs 200 pounds, but their ideal body weight, their goal weight is 130 pounds, then I want them to consume about 130 grams of protein per day or aim to get there. Some people struggle with that. So what I tell them is they at least have 30 grams of protein at all of their meals to create that muscle protein synthesis. For carbs, I tell them, if you want to be in this fat burning ketosis, it needs to be under 50 total grams per day.

Starting point is 00:31:45 And all those carbs should be non-starchy, low glycemic carbohydrates, like green leafy vegetables, maybe some blueberries, no high glycemic fruits and vegetables. For fat, I tell them to follow a certain rule in the first week, which is called the 222 rule, which incorporates certain tablespoons of fat. But here's the, here's the interesting thing. I actually have them pull their fat down if they're looking to lose weight. I haven't pulled their fat lower during the first few weeks of their keto approach. And their main thing is to get the protein and only get the fat that comes with the protein, not add extra fat.

Starting point is 00:32:23 Because I want their body to pull their own body fat for fuel and not necessarily burn the fat. Their EIC. Yeah. So if they're really overweight, I actually have them lower their fat, not a high fat diet. I saw if you have fat adapted then. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:36 So then when they're fat adapted, then you go higher on the fat intake. No, no, no. You say that way. No, in the beginning, so I explained it wrong maybe. So in the beginning, it is high fat. The first seven days is high fat. Once they're fat adapted, then the fat is lowered. Okay.

Starting point is 00:32:52 Because I want their body to pull from their body fat versus burning the calories from the fat they're eating. Okay. If they're really overweight. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So it's tailored then.

Starting point is 00:33:01 Yes. Okay. Perfect. That explains a lot. Okay, excellent. So one of the things that I get, I'm wondering if you get this. I always got this. That's how do I get that much protein? Do you get that? You said to you a lot. I see. I see. And I understand if you don't like no diet or food, to me, it's like the easiest thing in the world. I mean, one 12 ounce piece of salmon is like 70 some grams of protein just at one sitting. And then if you break it down to people, it's like four ounces of chicken. I don't like chicken, but I'm just using it as an example or ground beef or whatever. I mean, it's pretty easy. you get it. Do you, when you find, when you explain it to people, it's pretty easy,

Starting point is 00:33:37 then they do it pretty simply? No, people have a challenge. Do they really? Yeah, yeah, I agree. They tell me, but how can I have that much protein? So, you know, that's where I tell them, hey, look, if you can't get that one gram of protein per pound of body weight goal that I'm talking about, that get at least 30 grams at each meal, just to get that muscle protein synthesis.

Starting point is 00:33:54 But I also tell them to take essential amino acids. Yeah, to fill in the gap. Absolutely. Right? Why not? Take 10 grams, 20 grams of a high quality essential amino acid, maybe a high, quality protein shake, find ways to fill in the gap. Now, ideally, I want their food to be the primary protein source, but it's not a bad

Starting point is 00:34:11 idea to take essential amino acids. I take them every day. I do too. Hweeney will come up to me now because I've stressed the protein and just, like, thrilled when she gets 100 grams a day or whatever and show me on her phone that she did it. But it is, if you are not used to eating that, well, I'm used to it from all the training. So we would do, like, when I was trying to really gain muscle, a pound, it would be like 1.5 grams per patty. That's a lot, bro. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I still do about 240, 250 a day.

Starting point is 00:34:39 You know now, but I train a lot. Yeah, I mean, a lot, a lot, except on the weekends, I don't get that much. I try to lower it, you know, when I'm not training on those days and don't. So the days you're not training on the weekends, you lower the protein. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. I'm more like closer to my weight or even less. Okay. You know, so. What's your weight? One, on my best day, 175, on days like this where I didn't eat at all yesterday, about 170 to eat two, maybe. Something like that. Fastly right now? Not by choice, but yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:08 Well, we're going to go get a nice Argentinian steak. I love it. Yeah. I had a quick little bit of vegetables and protein barring away here. I had some issues at the hotel, I'll feel you went on later. Yeah, you were telling me a little bit about that. Yeah. So you're not technically fast, but you're in a chloric deficit.

Starting point is 00:35:23 For me, it's fast. For me, it is. So one of the things that I've kind of noticed, I don't crave carbs at all. Even with all the working out where you would think I would want them, what causes people to really crave carbohydrates? Is it something from eating bad foods or is it something in the like their sleep or what is it? Sleep definitely plays a role there, but it's because they're a sugar burner. Here's what happens. When your body in metabolism is only burning sugar for fuel, like 93% of people that I talked about.

Starting point is 00:35:59 What happens is when you go a couple hours without food, the brain, the glycogen in your body goes low, but the brain in your brain, I should say, goes low too. Then the brain sends the body a signal, go get more glucose. We need to refill the sugar in the brain because it's so used to burning sugar for fuel. Right. So if they get these cradings every two to three hours for sugar and carbs and sugar and carbs, and they're in this vicious cycle. When you're metabolically flexible like you, Dylan, when you're fat adapted, like you

Starting point is 00:36:29 dealing, that doesn't happen. What happens is glucose drops in the brain and then still happens, but what happens next, your body produces ketones or it breaks down fat, fatty acids, and then you're using that as an energy source. So that tells the brain, hey, don't worry. Here's another fuel source. Use that for fuel. You don't get the cravings. Now, sleep plays a huge role here because when you don't get quality sleep, the next morning you're going to have higher levels of glucose, higher levels of cortisol, and your brain is, you're going to have higher levels of cortisol. And your brain is going to be starved of the energy because they didn't clear out the junk at night. And it's going to tell you, go eat the donut.

Starting point is 00:37:03 Go eat the Oreos, eat the sugar, get the carbs because I want to fulfill the desire of getting energy back in the brain because it's depleted because I didn't get quality sleep. And sleep, you talked about this in my podcast. We just recorded, it fight the Swiss Army knife of health. It really is the most important thing. If you dial in your sleep, everything works better. Yeah. Every single thing.

Starting point is 00:37:28 And I'll share one thing that's an important piece that I talk about in KetoFlex. The most important window for burning fat within your 24-hour period days it's not at the gym. It's not during your fast. It's the first few hours

Starting point is 00:37:47 after you fall in asleep. Really? Deep delta sleep. Okay. You burn the most calories and activate this growth hormone pulse during that first two to three hours after you fall in asleep that you do not get anywhere else.

Starting point is 00:38:01 Now, still, work out, still fast. I'm not saying not to do that. But here's the crazy thing. Most people miss that really important fat-burning window. You know why? Because they eat too close to bed. Yeah. When you eat too close to bed, you spike glucose, obviously.

Starting point is 00:38:19 Insulin is spiked. Insulin stays elevated for hours, and it shuts down the growth hormone pulse. It depletes your deep sleep. And once you get out of that window of deep sleep, it's gone. It's only the first few hours after you fall in the sleep. And if insulin is high, you've missed that very important fat-burning window. So you wake up, you feel puffy, you look puffy, you're hungry, and you're on a vicious cycle of blood sugar imbalance the entire debt.

Starting point is 00:38:43 And there's a recent study, not recent, 2020, John Hopkins, really fascinating study. They took 20 healthy people. Probably had a hard time finding those healthy people, but they took 20 healthy people. they did a really cool experiment where on night one, they had these 20 people eat at 6 p.m. On night two, they had the same 20 people eat at 10 p.m. Saw your study. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:09 Oh, yeah, you're going to be like. Same calories, same meal, same people. Calorie, bro. Is you ready for this? Uh-oh. When they ate at 10 p.m., they had blood sugars that were 18% higher than when they ate at 6 p.m.

Starting point is 00:39:25 and 10% less fat burning when they ate at night versus at sex a lot. You accumulate that night after night. So what I talk about in KetoFlex is this rule that I tell all my YouTube followers to follow, which is the kitchen is closed rule. Three hours before bed, kitchen is closed. So if you go to bed at 11 p.m., kitchen is closed at 8 p.m. No food. Give yourself at least three hours of no food before bed, which allows insulin to drop.

Starting point is 00:39:53 you fall asleep, you get that growth hormone pulse, you activate your fat burning hormones, you wake up and you do this night after night and your stomach starts to get shredded. It's the most important window for fat burning that most people miss. They think it's about waking up early and going to the gym doing Orange Theory or cross it.

Starting point is 00:40:09 They think it's about the caloric restriction or the fasting or the diet. None of that is going to be as powerful as this tip I just talked to you by getting that deep quality sleep. I love it. Every time that I've had like five-hour nights of sleep or really interfered sleep.

Starting point is 00:40:27 Like last night? Yeah. I actually did sleep last night. It was just late. I wake up just brutally hungry. Most days I wake up, fine. Just get up and do the routine. Don't even think about eating for five hours, at least.

Starting point is 00:40:43 But those nights of bad sleep, man, oh, man, oh, man, you wake up feeling just. Same terrible. And it's not just tired or groggy. It's just terrible. Let me ask you this. This is what I was just thinking in my head right now. What foods do I eat that give me the most satiety and which ones don't give me any? And I'm going down this list in my head and I'm going, okay, that's a fat, okay, that's fat, okay, that's fat, okay, that's protein, fat.

Starting point is 00:41:11 Not coming up with one carbohydrate in my head aside from sweet potatoes just because my body just, I don't like them because I feel heavy. I love the way they taste. But I'm thinking in my head and I'm just not coming up with anything. Yeah. And then I'm remembering, oh, you were always hungry when you, when you didn't eat any fats. And what were you eating when you weren't eating any fats? And it dawned on me, I was eating a lot of carbohydrates. A lot. It was a lot, and I was always starving. So you... How much per day? I was only eaten 14, 15-hour calories a day. And the majority of it was vegetables, 12, 13 servings of vegetables, 2 and 1⁄2 servings of oatmeal, raisins, fruit, and, you know, then yogurt. I don't know, peanut butter. Crazy.

Starting point is 00:41:54 Yeah, I know. It's amazing that I made it that far functionalable and production-wise, right? Yeah. Well, there was some steroid use. It's like that going on in there. So in my head, I'm not seeing any carbs that are giving me any satiety. Mm-hmm. Why is that?

Starting point is 00:42:12 And are there any that are going to make you feel full or, you know, because when you eat crappy processed foods, too, you're still just hungrier. We are done. Yeah. So why is that if I'm right? And two, are there any that are going to give you any of that feeling of fullness? Well, you know what's interesting when I went down the rabbit hole of looking at medical textbooks, I discovered when I was looking at the three macronutrients, right, protein, fat, carbohydrates.

Starting point is 00:42:42 In all medical textbooks, it shows that there are essential proteins, meaning it's essential for you, for human beings to live. You need essential amino acids. There are also essential fatty acids, so there are essential fats. But you know what? There's no such thing as essential carbohydrates. Never heard of one. It's funny that you say that. There's none.

Starting point is 00:43:04 In the medical textbooks, carbohydrates are non-essential to function. Now, with that being said, am I against carbs? No, no. I don't think there's a time and place. There are facts, though, that that's wild. I've never thought of it. No such thing as essential carbs. Now, this goes to the answer.

Starting point is 00:43:20 Protein is what activates the satiety signals. They're like what GLP1 drugs activate. It's colostokinine, which is a hormone that your gallbladder produces CCK that helps you feel full. Leptin, which is a hormone that tells your brain you're full, put down the fork. You have colostokinin, you have peptide y-y-y. These are signals that tell your stomach, your brain, you're getting full, put down the fork. protein does that especially complete protein so animal-based protein versus plant-based protein unless you combine different plant-based sources to make it complete.

Starting point is 00:44:00 Fat also gives you those signals, it also tastes pretty satisfying, right? So a protein that contains natural fats like a rabbi or even, I know you don't like chicken, but like high-quality chicken, organic chicken with the skin on, yeah, fatty fish, salmon, sardines, etc. this is going to help signal to that. Carbs will not. I'll give you an example of how this works that's going to be relevant to the person watching and listening. If you went to a restaurant, like we're going to an Argentinian restaurant after this, we're going to feast on some steak. And, you know, I could eat like a 20, 24-ounce steak. I could put it down. And let's say I go to a restaurant and they have this 30-ounce rib-eye steak. And they're really proud of it. They feel like

Starting point is 00:44:46 nobody could eat the whole thing. They even have a challenge that they reward you if you could eat the whole thing. And let's say I eat the whole thing. I eat the 30 ounce rabbi. And the odor is impressed. He comes over to me and he goes, wow, you actually ate the whole thing. Nobody does that. And he says, we're going to give you some free dessert as a, you know, congratulations.

Starting point is 00:45:06 So he comes and he gives me dessert. Even though I'm so full from the protein, I could probably eat some of that dessert. I could probably drink a Coca-Cola because it's not going to signal more fullness. Right. But if he said, I'm going to give you another Wagyu, A5, 5-ounce steak that cost $500 for free to eat right after that steak, I'm probably going to say, I can't eat that right now. Right. Because the protein signals the fullness, the fullness, the carbs do not. Right.

Starting point is 00:45:38 So by eating more carbs, you just feel more hungry. There's something called the protein leverage hypothesis, which states, The reason why so many people overeat and overre-processed food is because they're trying to meet their protein threshold. And they eat all this junk food that, which is so low in protein, they eat so much of it to get that protein. But you could skip that by just focusing on high-quality protein and fat, lower carbs or low-glycemic carbs, and get the satiety that you're looking for that people pay to inject with GOP-1 drugs. Right. I'm still thinking about the essential carb thing.

Starting point is 00:46:13 No such thing is a salmparma. hydrates. Fact check me, my friends. Look at all the medical textbooks. Ask Claude. Ask chatting. Now, without being said, I'm not saying you should not have... No, let's work that clear, but it's not essential.

Starting point is 00:46:25 There's no such thing in the sense. Yeah, it's the thing. I mean, I'm also not saying the same thing. I think there's value there, but that is great. I love it. So just give the quick outline of the premise of the book that for everybody. So the book is called Ketoflex Revised, and it has a 45-day plan for, how to use keto, how to use fasting, how to do a carnivore diet as well in different levels of it.

Starting point is 00:46:49 And it's customized for you. So I share chapter on lemon, chapter on men, chapter on postmenopausal women. And it goes through my four pillars. This is the same four pillars that I've put in my courses that I've taught thousands of students. So adapt is the first pillar, getting you fat adapted. Fast is the second pillar, practicing intermittent fasting. Phase is the third pillar, removing foods that trigger inflammation in the gut. You spoke about the importance of the gut on my podcast. Yeah. And then number four is flexing out of ketosis and how do you do that the right way.

Starting point is 00:47:22 So it has that in there. There's chapters on the newest research on ketosis on fasting, a 45-day plan. There's recipes at the end of the book. If you like that stuff, I don't care about recipes, but some people do. Yeah. So that's in there. And the book's coming out July 21st. We have some free bonuses.

Starting point is 00:47:39 We're giving away over at Keto. flexbook.com. We have some downloadables. We have the entire chapter two audio recording with me narrating it, giving away that chapter for free, which is the fasting chapter, some seven-day roadmap. So if you go to ketoflexbook.com, you can get it there. It's available on paperback like this, Kindle, and then audible and Spotify. And if you get the audio, I narrated it myself and I added in some coaching sessions at the end of each chapter. I had a lot of fun. Wow. So it was super cool and I added some different content in there. So that's the book. I'm really proud of it. It's the advanced guide to metabolic flexibility. It takes, you know, what I wrote with metabolic freedom to a more customized version of how to do this.

Starting point is 00:48:20 I love it. So it's basically like a handbook to keto, basically. Yeah, and fasting. Oh, man. Yeah. You always go above and beyond with the teaching and everything that you do. How fun is that to do audible recordings? I mean, is it pretty cool? It's actually not that fun, man. Really? It's actually really tough. Is it? Yeah, Chris saw me, I could, I would come home from a like five-hour session of Like, oh my God. The reason why it's not like a podcast, bro. Yeah. A podcast, you're natural. It's organic.

Starting point is 00:48:45 This is different. You have the script, got the headphones. You have an engineer looking at you through a glass. And anytime you change the way you say something, you mispronounce a word, your flow changes. They stop you. You redo it. And they stop you and redo it. And I was doing it fast.

Starting point is 00:49:03 And that mic was picking up my stomach growling. It was picking up my mouth doing things that I didn't know it was doing. and he would stop me and stop me. So it was not enjoyable. But what was enjoyable was knowing that I was the one narrating it. I love when authors do that. It's done. What was enjoyable was at the end of each chapter

Starting point is 00:49:21 where I could actually freestyle and flow and talk about these questions and go into a coaching session. Yeah. But when you narrate your next book, if you want to do that, it's a challenge. But there's so much growth there because it teaches you to be a better reader. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:35 It teaches you to be a better communicator. So there's a lot of growth there. but I wouldn't say it's that enjoyable. I'm like an ad reader. So like when people have me do ads, when they hear them, they're like, oh, wow. And I think that there's a privilege

Starting point is 00:49:50 to be able to convey your book out loud. I agree. You write it, it's awesome. I mean, that's absolutely amazing. But I think to be able to say it, even if it sucks, when you look at it later, it's kind of like the painful tattoo

Starting point is 00:50:06 that hurts for hours and hours. And then when it's done, it's like, okay, this was worth it. Right. It's so worth it. I'm so happy I did it. You're absolutely correct. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:14 You know, if you're an author and you have a book out there, I do want you to narrate it because it's important for the author that I believe to narrate it versus somebody else. There's a disconnect with somebody else. And just, you know, drink tea and maybe fast or know that if your stomach rounds, the mic will pick it up. But anyways, I say all that because if you enjoy my voice, if you enjoy my teaching, it's in the book as an audio. If you like Audible or Spotify, use a credit, you can get the book on there and he could still get the free bonuses even with the audios. I love it. I love it. Man, it was so far beyond worth it to come down here and hang out with you. I keep my travel to a minimum now because it got a little out of control. I am a regimented routine guy.

Starting point is 00:51:00 So when I break it, you know what it's like. It's like, man, I would do this 100 times over. even with all the nonsense at the at the hotel and that flight and everything else i would do this anytime anywhere you asked me i'd be here and even my wife who hates me to travels i'd go just go she did yeah she did just go my mom's a fan of yours i love you like a brother you know that and and what i love more so than anything is having the bible here having the positive energy having so many people around you that I can tell you care about like you genuinely care about you don't have any motive that I see so many people have when I'm in person with them I can feel that I pick up on it

Starting point is 00:51:43 you know just like you do your motive is different your your amount of information is stellar but you carry the wisdom that I was talking about you're not just a smart dude you're a guy that uses it how it's supposed to be used for others in the right way and so that exudes into everything you do and that's why you're so respected and why you're so successful and that's why this like you told me you too my friend even with all the numbers and all the success are still only getting started and it's it's an honor and a pleasure and a privilege to sit with you to rap to talk and to share it with everybody else so thank you my friend for having me here but thank you for everything that you do for the inspiration the motivation and the example you set

Starting point is 00:52:31 because you set an example for everybody in our field on how it's supposed to be done. And I hope people watch that and take it to heart and do that in what they do because you've set an example for me too. And I appreciate it. So my friend, everything that you do that you're blessed with you, you deserve it. You do. And I'm just thankful that I met you. I'm thankful for the friendship. I'm thankful for everything you do.

Starting point is 00:52:55 I received that, my friend. Thank you, Dylan. It's been so great getting to know you over this past year and your growth and your consistency, which I shared on the interview with you. Thank you for making the trip. Thank to Queenie for allowing you to come. I understand the travel part. Same thing. I get into my groove and travel disrupts that you lose some momentum, but sometimes you gain momentum and sometimes you have phenomenal conversations like we did. Now we get to go feast because I know you're hungry. Okay. Go get some steak here. And no, thank you for making it happen, my friend. I love it.

Starting point is 00:53:25 All right, everybody. Get the book, July 21st. And I will link everything else like I always do in the description. But get this book. It is going to be a game changer, a life changer. And to have this kind of knowledge, it just opens up a whole other world for you. So thank you again, my friend, for this amazing studio and setup. That being said, stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jameli and Ben Azadi signing off.

Starting point is 00:53:54 All right. Awesome. Boom, boom, boom.

The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #146 Featuring Ben Azadi! KETO FLEX: The Massively Impactful New Book from the Keto King Ben Azadi! The ULTIMATE INTERVIEW on KETO and FOOD Science!

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