The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #151: My Special Guest Appearance on the HUMAN UPGRADE Podcast with Dave Asprey

Episode Date: August 8, 2026

Episode #151:  My Special Guest Appearance on the HUMAN UPGRADE Podcast with Dave Asprey On occasion, when I have a highly impactful guest appearance on another podcast, I will publish it here for all of you to listen!  THIS interview was a no brainer for me to publish!  I knew that going into my discussion with Dave, there would be a great synergy but I had no idea it would be to such a high extent.  To call this entertaining, would be a drastic understatement.  Dave has the kind of dry humor that I appreciate to the highest extent, a type of FUN that brings joy and laughter into my life and our back and forth was FILLED with this.  You will hear a lot of chuckles, pauses with smiles and laughing but also, a wide array of topics most people refuse to touch.  We both have a no holds barred way of conveying our message and while we both come across different, the points are well received and the synergy between our thoughts is not just entertaining but keeps you guessing and wanting more.  This is the kind of stand out conversation, where we will go after "polarizing" topics, go against the grain without worry and both of us not having any worry about criticisms because our mission to deliver TRUTHS is far more important.  Prepare to be entertained but enlightened, laughing but learning and enthralled from start to finish.  The only part of this that I did not enjoy was when it ended, but I have a feeling, we have PLENTY MORE discussions together to come... ENJOY!        In this episode of The Human Upgrade, Host Dave Asprey sits down with Dylan Gemelli for a candid, systems-level conversation about peptides, research chemicals, SARMs, and the gray zone between medicine, performance enhancement, and personal responsibility. They explore what research chemicals really are, why peptides fall into that category, and how legality often has little to do with biological risk or effectiveness. The discussion spans MK-677 and growth hormone signaling, muscle versus strength, testosterone optimization, nicotine versus tobacco, and the tradeoffs between aesthetics, performance, and long-term function. Dave and Dylan also examine diet failures, metabolic recovery, exercise myths, and why modern healthcare discourages self-experimentation and medical autonomy. Throughout the conversation, Dave shares personal experiences rebuilding his health using unconventional tools, framing biohacking as a smarter-not-harder approach to human performance, longevity, and taking ownership of your biology   You’ll Learn:  1.  What research chemicals actually are and why peptides fall into that category 2.  How compounds like MK-677 stimulate growth hormone and affect muscle recovery 3.  Why SARMS differ from steroids and where the real risks come from 4.  The difference between tobacco and nicotine and why low-dose nicotine can support brain optimization 5.  How performance enhancement fits into longevity, metabolism and functional medicine thinking 6.  Why strength and neurological driver matter more than size alone 7.  How to think clearly about supplements, nootropics and biohacking tools without fear or hype 8.  Why taking responsibility for your biology is not cheating     Watch our episode on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1AJ02JQk4E       Subscribe to the Human Upgrade Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-human-upgrade-biohacking-for-longevity-performance/id451295014   ______________________________________________________________________________  Today's Episode is Sponsored by JINFINITI The Dylan Gemelli NAD optimization protocol powered by JINFINITI:     https://www.jinfiniti.com/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-nad-dylan-gemelli-v1/     Jinfiniti: Save 15% site wide with code DYLAN   https://www.jinfiniti.com/dylan-gemelli-protocol/?_ef_transaction_id=&oid=4&affid=131   _______________________________________________________________________________________  Today's Episode is Sponsored by JUST THRIVE Probiotics!    Use my link below and receive 90 DAYS OF FREE Digestive Bitters when you sign up for 90 days of the Probiotic!!!     https://justthrivehealth.com/DYLAN       ALSO Take 20% off at Just Thrive SITE WIDE with my link below https://justthrivehealth.com/DYLANGEMELLI   ______________________________________________________________________________   To PURCHASE MITOPURE visit Dylan's landing page and use code DYLAN to save 20% OFF!!   https://shop.timeline.com/DYLAN   ____________________________________________________________________________________     The worlds FIRST EVER Topical Glutathione at AURO WELLNESS!  SAVE 15% with code "DYLAN" https://aurowellness.com/dylangemelli ___________________________________________________________________________________________     Get the Apollo Neuro for $99 OFF!! USE CODE GEMELLI to save https://apolloneuro.com/gemelli   ___________________________________________________________________________________________   Qualia Life Supplements:  Save 50% off PLUS AND ADDITIONAL 15% off with my code DYLAN   www.qualialife.com/dylan   ___________________________________________________________________________________________   TRULY Increase Your NAD LEVELS with WONDERFEEL NMN: https://getwonderfeel.com/?utm_source=DylanGemelli&utm_medium=podcast                       Follow Dylan on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok @dylangemelli and PLEASE SUBSCRIBE and leave reviews!!           MAKE SURE TO GO TO DYLAN'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL for MORE video content!!    https://www.youtube.com/@DylanGemelliBiohacking       Email Dylan for booking, collaborations and/or to apply for the Dylan Gemelli Podcast [e-mail]     Visit Dylan's Homepage https://dylangemelli.com  

Today's episode is brought to you by my great friends at Ginfinity. One thing that I've learned over the years is that the highest performers do not rely on assumptions. They rely on data. And that's especially true when it comes to NAD. Everyone is talking about boosting NAD levels, but very few people actually know where their levels are to begin with, whether their protocol is working, or how much they even need. And that's what makes Ginfinity different, which is why I am thrilled to announce that I have teamed up with Jinfinity, to offer the new Dylan Jameli NAD optimization protocol powered by Ginfinity.

This protocol provides you the Ginfinity intracellular NAD test and supplies you with the most complete and trusted NAD boosting supplement and protocol in existence, along with proper guidance to ensure that you are optimizing your health, performance, and longevity. So check out the link in the show notes and start taking control of your health today. Let's talk about some of your favorite SARS. And my backstory for this so people know. I used a combination of these things, this is 10 years ago.

On 29 pounds of muscle in about six weeks. Yeah, with no change in diet or exercise, I did tear ligaments in both shoulders because ligaments don't call it muscles. I say it's cheating to put yourself at the level you're supposed to be at so you can actually be who you're supposed to be. Tell me how that's cheating.

The idea of cheating is absurd. You know what always makes me mad? The people who talk most about cheating, they actually drive to the studio to talk about that. You mean, we use technology to make life better? So there's also thinking it's cheating. And if you think I'm cheating, that's because you're losing. I will not ask for a permission slip.

Me too, take care of myself. It's a fundamental innate right. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. So Dylan, second time on the show. I didn't ask this the first time. Now, since that time, one of the things I appreciate about you is we might hang out in some similar corners of the biohacking world, but you may be talking. about it more than I do.

The world of research chemicals and underground stuff. I mean, I rebuilt my health using underground stuff, and I brought a lot of it out from the underground of the last 15 years, even some of the early peptide stuff and things like that. But the number of peptides has just exploded since I wrote my book. I've got a dozen of them I'm using right now. And there's probably another 500 that are interesting that I may or may not use at some point.

And then there's all the research chemicals. So, where should we go first? Are research chemicals more powerful than peptides or are peptides more powerful than research chemicals? Or are they mostly the same thing? Well, it's funny because peptides actually fall into research chemicals technically. Right. So when I think of research chemicals, I'm looking at SARMs.

I'm looking at peptides and neutropics because a lot of those aren't technically legal. So the term research chemical is really just a legality, right? I mean, they're not illegal. No, it's a gray area. I got introduced into that market in 2012, right after I got out of trouble. And it went straight into a gray area, but it was more discussion-based and then going into understanding what does not for human consumption mean? Because they have to write that to sell it. They can't market it as a use for use.

So if they market it and they put on their, oh, you can get this amount of muscle or lose this amount of weight, they're toast. They can get fined or shut down. Isn't it so weird that glyphosate says not for human consumption, but they spray it on our food and then we eat it? Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Isn't that funny how that works? Yeah, and that's not illegal.

Right. Huh. But they, maybe they don't have any regulatory control over what I put on my body because it's my body. I thought. It's kind of weird. Yeah. That's where I've been living forever, man. Yeah.

I think we have some new friends at the FDA who are very peptide friendly and they're fast track friendly. And there's value to an FDA approval of something. Yeah, hopefully more value now because unfortunately the FDA has approved like an Alzheimer's drug that provably didn't work and they admitted that they approved it because they just needed a win, even though it wasn't a win. Like that is not okay and it cheapens what ought to be a gold stamp of approval. But I'm surprisingly, I never thought I'd say this in my life. I'm more trustful of what I see coming out of the FDA now because I got to interview the commissioner

and I asked them the hard question. Like what big pharma company are you going to go to work for next? Wow. And he just laughed because I'm a surgeon. I never work for big pharma. I took it know if I want. And then the whole conversation was about like fixing things. And just the other day, it's like, oh, yeah, testosterone doesn't need to be scheduled like it's a controlled drug because some weirdo in the 90s used it wrong.

Yeah. So like, let's be rational about this. And so he's fixed women's health with hormones. He's fixing men's health. I'm like, I think we have someone to understand how it works. I've never been more excited about that. I never thought I would say that. So anyway, I'm digressing a bit.

but I'm hopeful. Are you? I am hopeful. I think there's always going to be some sort of control there in a way, but I think that we're moving in the right direction. Now it's just hoping we keep them there. Okay. I found that once people use these and they see the efficacy

and how they work and what they do and they have an understanding that they're not PEDs, they're not performance enhancing drugs, if they're used properly, then they have multitudes of benefits. What's wrong with performance enhancing drugs? Well, nothing. I mean, nothing in my view, but... I mean, everyone listening to the show, it probably wants to perform better at some aspect of their life.

And if there's a pharmaceutical has little or no downside or a natural compound and lots of upside, isn't that what Rib Eye is? But here's the problem. You and I understand what performance-enhancing drugs mean, but in terminology out there, it's a steroid or something that does something harmful or illegal, so to speak. But even steroids, if used to use, properly don't have to be nearly as destructive as they have been.

And I mean, I argue that steroids have saved more lives by a hundred times. Because hydrochortazone or cortisol is a steroid that give you in the hospital. Yeah. In fact, I take a little bit of it almost every day. Oops. A little stress management. Yeah. Right.

We have these weird conversations with people think coffee and caffeine are the same thing. They're not. They think tobacco and nicotine are the same thing. They're not. And they think drugs are bad. And the reality is every substance, including water, has benefits and it has a downside. And putting in these artificial buckets is for simpletons. Well, I ask you this question back to you.

What's more harmful? A steroid like an anabolic steroid or oxycodone. Which one's going to be more harm? Which one makes more money? I got to think like a whole. True. True. Exactly.

I mean, you have to think like an overseer. Yeah, exactly. I got to rat my head around. Or alcohol, for that matter. True. Like, so if alcohol is legal, they have no say over research chemicals. You're young. I agree.

I always argued that marijuana was far more beneficial and less hurtful than alcohol. I argued that since I started smoking pot. It's also not good for you. No, let's face it. Yeah. All right. Are you into the enhanced games? Oh, so?

So what? Tell me your take on that. Oh, I don't know. Anything enhanced-wise, I'm really for it as long as it's not going to kill you. and the spray that you gave me, by the way. Nice. It gave you a one milligram microdose of nicotine. And I had never taken any.

Oh, no wonder you're having a good time. Yeah, I know. And you're doing your receptors are firing. Like, no one's business. Drilt. And run it on low sleep and everything, but feel phenomenal. And it's, you know, I was amps to be here anyway, but that gave me an extra amp. Sweet.

Thank you. And just a quick aside there, nicotine is exactly what we're talking about. Yep. It's one of these things. It's not tobacco. and since 1986, we've had medical research published that shows it prevents her reverses Alzheimer's disease. It's neuroprotective. It uncouples your mitochondria. It's been used for almost a thousand years to treat certain medical conditions. But because smoking causes cancer, people throw the baby out with the bathwater. So I've been using nicotine for 10 plus years written about my longevity book.

In low doses, it actually has a net benefit like drinking coffee. So it's addictive. Yeah. Well, coffee is addictive. days of headaches and but you know else is addictive weep yeah exercise right water i live there with the exercise especially so i know man i know there's good addictions and bad addictions just like there's good and bad of anything exactly let's talk about some of your favorite sarms and my backstory for this so people know i use a combination of these things is 10 years ago okay put on 29 pounds of muscle about six weeks really yeah with no change change in diet or exercise to the point that I was gone on stage for Tony Robbins at UPW

and I take out the shirt I was when I put on buttons all ripping I'm on stage this ugly blue shirt I bought it like Kmart next door something Walmart somebody bought it for me but it was like this is terrible because I had to go to an XL and I did tear ligaments in both shoulders because ligaments don't grow like muscles so don't do that yeah but this is how powerful 29 pounds of muscle is not trivial no no and that is a difficult task but can be done with the right ones. Yeah. On the right diet.

Now, depending upon which one, see, when I started, there were two. Well, I'd take that back. There were three, but MK67's not technically a SARM. My favorite, but it's not a SARM. Yeah, exactly. Talk about that one first. MK67. What is it?

It's a, oh, it's a secretagogue, really, and it stimulates that ghrel. And people use it to eat a lot. I like it because it helps to get that HGH release. And I compare it to an often. oftentimes recommend it over using HDH because it's safer. Bodybuilders use it so they can eat a ton, and a lot of people that struggle with appetite will shift to that, which is great and fine.

When it first came out, it was going for like $3,400 bucks a bottle. Nobody bought it. It was MK2866 and S4. That was it. That's all you could buy. And then it started to evolve into GW 501516, LGD 4033, and now we got S23, which is basically a steroid. that is termed male contraceptive

because it completely obliterates your natural testosterone, but it will blow you up. Wow. So if that was just a wordful or a mouthful numbers for you, these are research chemical names for compounds that mimic the effect of steroids in the body. Yep.

And what I was taken back in the day was LGD. I was taking GW501-516, S4, and MK67. That was the only one. I took back then. Yeah. And just if you're saying, what are all those things?

These are things that are documented over the last 10 years that have massive improvements in certain aspects. And they have some risks. Yeah. And for people who have muscle wasting disease, people who are really unfit, you can throw a switch more powerful than peptides with these research chemicals.

Yeah. And let's talk about MK677. So I don't know if I shared this on the show. I, you know, I was very, fat, I've had all kinds of problems with my health, and I've reversed them all. And my body, oh, 10 years ago, was making zero growth hormone. And I had this tested with the glucagon test, like the proper test, not just looking at insulin levels and insulin-like growth factor. So working with the medical doctor, I went on human growth hormone, physiological replacement, not the kind of stuff to get jacked.

Did it for five years. Like, oh, if you go on this, you can never do it again, like Peter Atia Fear style. And like he's the guy is afraid of bioidentical testosterone. So, like, but my body has none. So then I said, you know, it's time to taper off it. And I did. And my growth hormone levels were fine. I rebuilt my biology, so I turned on my own growth hormone.

Then last year, I went through a period of extreme travel and some other biotoxin stuff. And my growth hormone. So I could have taken growth hormone. I could have taken the peptides that caused you to do it like epamorelline. Yep, it's you JC. Or I could have done MK677. So I did MK677 just for the last three months. And, well, you know, my levels of human growth hormone went back up to normal.

That's right. No doctors, I'm going to tell you to do this. Actually, working with me and my team at Unlimited.Life, we would tell you to do that. But most doctors aren't going to tell you to do it. Now, we can't prescribe it. But we can mention it's possible. And then if you do it on your own, that's your own thing. That's right.

And oftentimes, because I was with the bodybuilding sphere for however many years, and I started bringing that up and I used to get the hardest time from the meatheads. Oh, it's not the same. It's not the same. And now, if you go and talk to anybody that owns a research chemical site, that's always a top seller. Yep.

Because everybody knows now. And I just used to get people beating my head down over it. It's really funny because when I started the biohacking movement, I've been running a longevity nonprofit group in Palo Alto for, I don't know, six years. I was also in the gym a lot, right? And these bodybuilders know stuff. Longevity people should know and vice versa.

And then the neuro guys. the meditation guys. They also, so I wanted to bring it all together under one umbrella so we could at least talk. That's it. They had to go together. Yeah. If everybody would just stop thinking they know everything or that there's not alternative methods. Oh, you know, like the Lane Norton effect. Oh, shit. Here we go. So I was talking to Bio Lane's mom the other day. I love health bullies. He's my favorite health bully. I don't get it. I just don't get it. I don't get why people have to do that. I don't either, but man, it's so good for sales. Because last, I mean, he's like, Dave, you're wearing pistain glasses and I don't like something you said.

And I just reposted it. And then I ran a coupon code for true dark glasses. I remember. But here's what you don't know. So because I ran that. And it was sold like tens of thousands of dollars. So I'm taking a prop from that. And I'm donating it in his name.

And in Lane Norton's name to a nonprofit for victims of childhood bullying. I love it. We're going to say it like it is. So, Lane, if you're listening, and we know you are, and we know your mom's listening to. I just got to say, man, like, thickety breath. Maybe like make out with Peter T. Whatever you're into, man.

I'm not going to judge you, right? Like, you are enough. You are enough. Sorry. No, but there's, I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, I went through that for years

when I was doing what I was doing. I had this one side that absolutely loved me and then I get guys like him. Yeah. Oh, you're not 300 pounds. Why are you talking about steroids and how to use them properly and everything? Oh, yeah,

because the guys that are 300 pounds that don't know what they're doing, that just take everything out of the sun and that are killing themselves. That's what you want to listen to. Yeah. You can really harm yourself. And I'll just say if you're angry all the time, either you have an imbalance in your biochemistry. Right. It could be too much tea.

Could be a bunch of other stuff, neurotransmitters, or you just have a lot of child of trauma. And they're both infinitely hackable. Right. So let's assume there's someone listening to the show. Like, I have researched, they don't know what we're talking about yet. So completely unknown. Let's say that this is someone between 40 and 60, and I want an answer for women and I want that for men that are different.

Absolutely. Okay. What are the two research chemicals that are most likely to make them lose fat and gain muscle? I'll tell you where I like is S4 because men and women can both use it. And it has this really nice effect of muscle hardening, which I'm all about the aesthetics, right? And lean muscle gain, little suppression for men, women don't have to. to worry about it's testosterone yes exactly and very few side effects there's a vision thing that people panic about and it's very simple to overcome okay so what happens is is let's say you use

50 milligrams of s4 standard dough yeah uh yeah you can take it either capsule or like the liquid okay and so basically if you are in a dart like the setting we're in now and you look at this light and then you look you're going to see this hello flashing i thought it was great when i was driving a car the first time and I saw it. I was living in Maui and they had these non-lighted streets and I was like, oh, this is crazy. You know, I feel. Wow. So it's not so bad.

But other than that, very little side effects and muscle hardening, it blew me away because I'm already pretty vascular, but I was seeing veins across like a rope out around my app. I never done that. I have some ab veins most of the time, but like, yeah, they're a little bit lower down. But if you're getting upper ab veins, that's insane. It was insane. What's your body fat percentage? Right now about.

7.2 last time I checked. I stayed pretty 6 to 8 range, but it gets too low. It's unhealthy. Yeah, I was getting down to 6.5. I didn't feel as, no, it was hard. I think I'm around 7.5 right now. Probably not just seeing the skin. I got a lot of extra skin from when I was fat, too.

So that kind of changes thing. But you know what? I always say when I looked my best, I felt my worst. Every fitness competitor, especially women, says that. Yeah. Yeah. Like I have no libido. I'm tired all the time.

I'm anxious all the time, angry all the time, almost like a vegan. And it's true, though. It's true. You know, I didn't ever mean to do vegan, like never intended, like no fear of eating animals or anything like that. But I did, looking back on it, I was doing that. And I was the most miserable I ever had in my life. Yeah, me too. 18 months of just hell.

And first three months, I was like, I got the glow and the glow's anxiety to go hunting. And I like, oh. But don't you feel like you just, I, for me, I couldn't stay focused on 20 minutes. No, it makes you flighty. Yeah, I'm grounded. Yeah. Yeah. Just all over the place. I start working.

I may get up and walk around or do something and go, oh, shit, I don't want to do that. And you give like muscle pain and joint issues. I got autoimmune issues. It was terrible. Yeah. That's why I see these young people who get into bio. I'm going to go vegan. Man, there's no health reason to do it.

There's no animal cruelty reason to do it. No, because you kill more animals cutting down your wheat and soy than you do from eating a cow. That's right. Right. And there's no environment. no reason to it because we need poop as much as me milk and beef. That's right. So I'm like, I don't get it, but I did do it.

And so I've felt for that. And you're burning out like 10 years of useful life if you don't repair it. I agree. And same with like the protein powders and everything that are pea protein and rice protein. I won't touch them, man. You know, I think there's a role for human kibble. Yeah. I love talking to you, man.

I'm trying to be polite and all that stuff. I just got, you know, I just got to say it like it is. No, I went. When I rewatch our show when you came on mine, there's so many things that I rewatch because you have the kind of humor I enjoy. I enjoy that Chevy Chase 1980s, like dry humor that you have to be really smart to get.

Are you just saying I'm old? No, no, no, no, no. I feel triggered right now. I identify as triggered. Actually, that's humor. That's what you identify. Yeah. And I, you know, I was laughing here

because I had a feeling at some point you were going to ask me when I changed from bodybuilding to biohack, and I was like, I transitioned, and I was like, man, I can't say. I started that in club That'd be a ringtone You call me But I got it now

You said I transitioned Yeah And I was like Oh shit He'll kill me on that one If that comes up When did you move From bodybuilding

To buy back So I was I got my big opportunity To actually speak With doctors and practitioners At Mr. Olympia Two years ago And what's crazy is

I actually I went up there I tore the house And I was prepared 15 years of preparation I was prepared Well I got asked to co-host with Monica Branch, she's a former Miss Olympia.

He was being sponsored by STEM REGEN and the Mr. Olympia. So when I met Christian over there and them, they watched me speak and talk, and we hit it off. So I made all these contacts. I was all excited, went home, got COVID immediately. Oh, no.

Yeah. So I, and I'm a spiritual guy. I know not everybody is, that's fine. But I'm all very open about that. Can me like, can me judge and shame the non-spiritual people? No, we can. I'm sure.

I don't know if it goes well with the spirit yoke. I'm just kidding. Well, so, because I went to the gym when I got home because I can't miss a day. And I got done and I called my wife. I said, I'm going to CVS. Something's wrong. Yeah, out of COVID test. Anyway, I couldn't get out of bed the next morning.

I normally do this what was me thing when I'm laying there like, why? And I decided, okay, God, I'm going to trust you, right? I don't know why. And I'm laying there and I can't move. And I started to look at Stamry Jen on Instagram. And then I, that's when I really found you too, because I was going through all their stuff. And I said, I don't, I'd heard biohacking before and I didn't know what the hell it was. And I'll tell you what, three hours of me in and dating myself with nothing but info.

And I called my wife in and I'll remember this conversation. I get chills. And I said, you're going to have to trust me. I have been, I've been miserable talking of all the stuff I've been doing. I'm unhappy. She knows it. I said, we're making a move. This is where I know I'm supposed to be talking about this stuff.

Wow. And from that moment on, I started, I went to Eudemonia with Stem Regen, and that was my first conference. And from then, I started the biohacking type of podcast. And here we are a year later. Welcome to the team, biohacking, man. It's where it's at. It's funny because it's really changed the environment around you and inside you, so you have control of your state. That's it. Bodybuilders are some of the best on earth at changing their state. The mental state, sometimes you do some work, but even guys like Frank Zane came on. the show, that guy is a semi-enlightened being. Yeah, like, I play the flute for an hour a day just for my interview.

I'm like, this is the most interesting guy ever. And so like the old school bodybuilders who've lived, most of them have an incredible spiritual practice as well. Yeah. Because your physical body controls your, your emotional and your psychological, and even your spiritual body. They're connected. You know what I realized is I learned about peptides and starms in 2011.

I've been doing and tweaking and doing these things to myself. forever. It's not polarizing. There's nothing crazy or strange about the term. It's very simple if you just understand what it is. Yep. And once I watched a lot of your stuff and a lot of other things there and I listened and I told you before the struggles I had with eating and how I was under eating and I took so many pieces of your diet. I put a little bit of what I was doing. I wrapped it together and I'm telling you, man, my whole world just opened up. You're happy. That makes me like that That's why I did it because I was feeling the same way. I was wrecked.

Yeah. And I just couldn't unpack it. It took a long time to make that diet. And it's helped a lot of people. And you don't have to, it's not the same for everyone. It's like, do these for most people. These are suspect. Like you got to know if you're nightshade sensitive, you will get arthritis and autoimmunity from eating chili, which is my favorite food.

And I have the gene. I don't eat chili anymore. It's not that hard. Oh. But if I didn't know, I was just in pain all the time. And I was, I was reading it. And some of the things on there were things, all the things I was eating. And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to do it.

And if it doesn't work, I know to fix it. I know I can go back to living in hell again if I'd like to. And I'm telling you, I went in that kitchen one day because I'm the type of guy where cars just show up. Shit just shows up. My wife is used to it. Yeah. And I walked in there and I said, listen, we're going to go to Whole Foods today. We're going to buy all these foods I said I didn't like.

I didn't even know if I liked them or not. So avocado, salmon, fresh, grass-fed beef. And now I'm eating every kind of beef under the sun. And like now when we're done before my flight, I'm going home. I've got avocados ready to, they're chopped. I've got all my stuff cut up, the eggs. I eat. I was eating 16,700 calories a day like I told you.

Wow. Now I'm doing 3,000. That's so much better, don't you? I look better too. Yeah. But I was eating like 20 grams of fat. Now I'm doing 130. And you're, he says lean as you were before.

I'm leaner than I was. But fat makes you fat. Right. I mean, Lane told me. Right. So does a lot of dipshits. Yeah. It's just not how it works.

And when I was really my heaviest gym at times, I was my early 20s, I was on a low-fat, low-calorie diet and 90 minutes in the gym six days a week without fail, even if I was sick. Like, if I could walk, I went to the day. And couldn't lose a pound, right? Couldn't lose a pound and felt like crap and all that stuff. And I just was, what is a calorie measure? Energy. Yeah. And you know who's even worse than a lot of men is women?

The number of women who are starving from their freaking salads all the time, like, please you just take. And they eat a steak and like their eyes light up and like, oh, and they make like happy sounds. And if they do it for a week, they're like, I'm not cold all the time and I feel so much better. My anxiety is down. And so this fear of being seen eating,

we just have to do away with that. And eating is a sacred act of nourishing yourself at every, level. You know what? I wouldn't touch a salad if you paid me. I won't even go near them. I don't touch them and I'm telling you. Even arugula. You want to touch that stuff? Well, I'll eat that. I'll touch. I'll touch. Irriguan lettuce all touch, but not for nutrition, just for it like, oh, that sounds crunchy. Yeah. There's no point to it other than that. You know why I get angry now is all the years I missed of cooking and butter and thinking that that was going to make me fat or gain weight. And I mean, sometimes I'm not even going to lie to you. I take a little bite off the stick and just eat it. I mean,

I do because I miss it, you know, and I literally cannot tell you how much my whole life changed and opened up. It's just insane. This makes me so happy because I, all the content I realized, if someone who just told me this when I was like saved me $1,000, it's about $2.5 million dollars on reverse my age, but the first million was just to get well. Right. Right. And if I'd have just known, so the fact that. you could throw the switch that fast? I'm that type of guy where if I want to do something, I can just do it. But I have to make myself do it.

See, we talked about prison. One of the things in prison is your whole life is based around routine. And I've already been a structured guy in my whole life. And so one of the things I'm good about is, okay, when I go on a trip like this, I'll say, well, things have to change. And I do it. And then I go, well, I just did that. And I was fine.

And then I'll go home and do it. And then you'd make a new routine. It's very simple. Even if you're structured, you just got to try. You know, and we get into our own ways. I've been a nutritionist 15 years and I was doing the low fat thing going against what I was coaching. Wow. Because I'm the exception.

That's what I was telling myself. Yeah. Only, nobody's the exception. Well, I don't know if I agree with you there. Like, you look at these epidemiological curves and they always set stuff for like the middle. Yeah. But if you have the weird genetics, there are people who should not be eating more butter. True.

Because of their APO, E4, double, all that kind of stuff. So eat more olive oil. Right. People with no gallbladder. But there's always like quarter cases, but there is no one who's always the exception. That's what that was my thing. Yeah. Because I had myself convinced of that and didn't even try.

Yeah. I just told myself that. You got to try. So many listeners are going to benefit from that because hope. You know, the worst of all happens you've tried something new for a week. or two is that it won't work. Yeah. Well, that's what I said. I know how to lose weight. Yeah. If it doesn't work, I'll just make it work. Yeah. You know, I'll cut this out. And that's another thing that I want to bring up is a lot of times you try to do everything at once, then you don't know

what's working and what's not. Yep. You know, and that was one of the things I dealt with with bodybuilders that wanted to take five things at once. And I'd say, well, then how do we know if something, if you have a bad side effect, I don't know which one it is. Yeah. There's a, many of things have the same kind of problem. So I am a, and I'm so dialed in with the diet and everything. I'll put one thing in, see how it works,

try it, and then, you know. We're kind of the opposite that way. So when I first started getting really serious about losing the weight and fixing my brain and all this, I did all this research.

I fired my doctor who told me that vitamin C would kill me. Literally. How well it's a medical foundation. Thanks, guys. Yeah. And it turns out,

you know, if you're doing 100 grams orally every day, you'll probably get oxalate toxicity after a while. So there are, you know, everything has good and bad. Right. Vitamin C is not going to kill your normal doses. I order like 10 supplements. I go, I'm going to try each one for a month.

And then I looked at my list of things to try. And I looked at a number of months in my life. I'm like, I'm not going to even try with him for one month. And so then I just thought about it. Like, it's impossible to do that. So I'm going to pick a goal. And I'm going to do everything that I can afford all the same time that logically lines up to reach that goal.

And once I reach the goal, then I'm going to, and take some things out. Because usually life is a recipe. Yeah. Right. So if you were to take this approach of, I'm trying one thing at a time, like, I'm going to invent bread.

I baked the water. I baked the yeast. I bake the flour. Ah, there's another thing as bread. So sometimes you've got to fix your thyroid and your testosterone at the same time to get results. Yeah.

So my approach is, you know what? If you want to get a goal and you're not a research scientist trying to isolate variables and effects, who cares? Do all of it. You all of it. This month.

And you set aside $500 or whatever your budget is. Like, I'm going to go in. And at the end of the month, it's like, my brain is so good. My eyes are shining. My skin is better. I've lost 20 pounds. And something in there is working. Right.

And then, okay, next month, like, don't only do half of it. Right? And this is my computer science mind. It's like bubble sorting is what we call that. So the thing is, though, getting the results without undue risk is the goal not figuring out which one it is. Because I have the most expensive pee on the planet right now, I'm pretty sure. My plants love it. It's fine.

I love it. You know, I did that. When I found out that I had plaque in my arteries, I did everything. Yeah. Everything. That's interesting and did it work? To a point, but then I started to get some higher liver values from all the niacin, for example. I knew it, and I cut it out.

And then I started just taking minus and some things out. And then I found what really worked together for me personally that wasn't causing me heart palpitations or making me like not sleep for example so is soft flack or hard plaque hard okay so you're calcified plaque that's actually less dangerous than soft that absolutely absolutely and you got that down i have what i feel is pretty reversed it now because i went in i i i had the calcium score first step one what was your score 120 oh dude freak me out then i found that i had an extremely high l p little a 3 30 um very high too hacked that down to 19 which I was told was that possible.

Long story short, I went to Mayo Clinic. Yeah. Supposed of these events. The best of the best, which was what I was told. And I went in there with the idea that I wanted to use Repatha,

PCSK9 inhibitor. I wanted to use Vespa, and I did not want to use a statin. And they told me that prescribing a PCSK9 using Vespa was bad practice. This was their words. And that using a statin, which I know will increase my LP little A,

and I'll leave the other stuff out right now. That's what they wanted me to do. There wasn't enough research on L.P. Little A, which I found crazy because I had inundated myself with research. So I got in a fight with my mom and my wife on the way home, and I said, who are you two? You're listening to these morons. I'm going to do what I want to do.

That was the start. I did the niacin for quite a while, but that started to make me feel not so good. But it did drop my L.P. Little A. I was doing rams of flush Nias. It's a lot of Niasis. Yeah, it's too much. But pomegranth juice is another one that could reverse plaque.

I can. And anyway, I had a different episode of like high heart palpitations, which I panicked, which I think was due to loss of electrolytes. Yeah, most likely. And I went in and they did the catheter up my arm because I had a Ctangio that said 35% blockage. Well, then this was a year later and he said, I don't see any plaque in there. You have no blockage of any kind.

And I was like, okay. Well, then I found I had a low ejection fraction, which may have been due to the eight times I've had COVID. And let's explain that for people. So ejection fraction is how much blood can your heart move in one pump? Yep. And healthy, strong, young animals can go from chill to in one heartbeat, slam that blood through. But people do chronic cardio exercise. They train their hearts to actually be weaker by having a small ejection fraction.

So I have a very large ejection fraction. My cardio of 90 to 120 minutes a day for 20 years probably hurt that. So what happened was I got put on Jardians. And I was put on Entresto, which is a bad move considering my normal blood pressure is like 96 over 62. Oh, you're a low blood pressure guy. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of mess. That's why your heart was raising too.

Yeah. So I stopped that anyway, within three months of Jardients at a low dose, the ribose pattern, high-dose, ubiquitous. which I came up with. I went from 44 to 50. Yeah. I have to go back in again now. So 5570 is normal, as you know. I want to be hopefully in that 5560 range.

Which metric? 5570. 55 to 70s. On your injection factor. Yeah. injection fraction. Yeah. And so I went from 44 to 50 in three months.

So good. I've cut. I didn't realize I was training in zone four so long for so many years. Yeah. Yeah. I used to do long distance cycling when I was overweight. and I even did a couple races. It's not really a great idea to race when you weigh,

you're 280 pounds, because somehow going up the hills is not easy, but it was not a productive thing to do. No. And I'm a big fan, first of high-intensity interval time, even 15 years ago. I'm like, this is better.

And now I just get reheat. I've ever been healthier. Yeah. So that's something that, for listeners, there are a class of like 1970s researchers and even some longevity doctors. they're like, zone two is where it's at. You've got to do zone two, eight hours.

Eight hours a week. I have teenage kids. I have nine companies. I have this podcast and I have friends. I'm not doing eight hours of zone two. That's insane, right? You could also like fast in a monastery for three weeks a month or something.

It's not going to happen for the vast majority of people. No, that's difficult. So you got to find out of do it in a meaningful amount of time. You know, I tell you. I have found, and I used to just brown upon it. I walk. On my non-workout days, I do four or five miles of walking every day, and my workout days I do three. I do every morning, and then after I eat, I go bike about 10, 15 minutes to move.

I have found that to be more productive for me because, I don't know, you do feel heavy right after you eat and you walk. And so I do the biking, and I do it steady, not, I'm not racing, just on the path, enjoy the scenery. I'm by mountains now and just feel free, clear my head, say, sorry. come home, get right back to work. Yeah, we call that movement. It's so good for you. It's sunshine too, right?

Yeah. You're doing it without sunglasses, I'm guessing? Oh, yeah. Good deal. Yeah, that's circadian exposure too. Yeah, I listen. And every time I give a talk, I preface it, I'm not saying, do three hours in the sun because people freak out about the sun.

You got to have the sun. The sun is one of the most underrated nutrients there is. When I moved to Austin from Canada, but I just, I'm not feeling good, and I came down and I got much healthier. And some people say, oh, you get all the vitamin D you need from sunshine. What should take on that? I think you get a good amount, but I still, you know, I like to supplement and eat good foods and everything. I think you get a good majority, though, from the sun.

I think without it is the problem. Well, if you're taking vitamin D, you still need sunshine or at least UVB to activate it. Yeah. And I did a test a while ago. I lived in Hawaii for six weeks. And I'm going to quit taking vitamin D. I'm going to get my three hours a day in the sun. You know, I got some sun damage from it.

I had great tan and you did all the, I actually never burned because I'd know how to eat right, but I did just get some sun damage from it. And I measured my levels. There were 36. Really? Yeah, I also have genetics where I don't hold on to vitamin D and I use it real quickly.

And so there is no way I'm going to get it up there without self-moots and sunshine. Yeah, I agree. I lived in Maui. Yeah. And when I got out of prison, I got sent to Maui because my parents lived there. Okay. And I took melanatan to. I love that stuff.

Dude, I was so dark, I was embarrassed. Because you take it and then you go sit, you're supposed to go out in the sun a little bit. Not in Maui, man. Bad idea. Bad idea. I was so ashamed of how dark I got. I had to stay home a couple days and get off of it.

Because you were like too tan? It was really bad, man. My wife's from the Philippines, and I was way darker than her because I met her. That's funny. See, you were really dark. It was embarrassing. So Melanotan is a peptide you can take

that stimulates melanin. in your skin and it's really good if you just do one or two courses beginning at summer because now you have built-in sunscreen. But last time I used the round of it was at Burning Man. So, oh, I just injected in the morning and walked around naked for an hour and I had a tan for the rest of the week. It was great. Increasing in libido.

No tan lines. Yes, and libido increase is pretty damn sweet on that, too. So let's talk about that for listeners. So Melanatanatan has a side chain called PT-141, which you can buy separately. Right. You take melanotan or said he's also sure. If you just sunbathe, it makes you horny. It releases natural oxide, but there's a libido that's separate from nitric oxide.

So you do melanin, I remember like what I was 19? Yeah. Oh, like, yeah, that, that is noticeable. And at the time, there wasn't a ton of literature on that part of it. And so it caught me. I read it, but it was not really talked about. And I was like, okay. Yes.

Okay. This is amazing. And I was pretty, when I was 30 at the time. You just got out of prison. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, okay, this is great. But you know what?

Gabe, I tried it three different times. Yep. Different companies and I know it was good. Lowest dose that I couldn't take the nausea for me. It made me too nauseous. Some people get that. Yeah. And Melanitanin 1 probably has better cognitive benefits.

It doesn't darken as much as well. So that might be a better one. Mm-hmm. You're talking about you tried Melanotanatan. Yeah. And some people get nausea from PT1 for 1. So you titrate the dose down. Yeah.

And there's other libido hacks that are out there. I've talked about in other episodes. I took it right before bed to try to help with the thing. And it just made it just as bad. I would get so sick. And not only that, Malampton is a circadian hormone. You take it in the morning or maybe at noon. I know.

And you take it at night. You're telling yourself to stay awake and you're going to be pitching a tent all night long. You're not going to sleep at all. You can't even roll over without breaking something. But there was, like I said, at that time, it was like, that was more of a trial and error time of stuff. And knowing what I know now, I was like, man, everything I was doing was backwards. Oh, this is so funny. Yeah.

But it was really, really, there was like seven peptides you could choose from at the time. Yeah. It was it. And it was really just GH, DHRHs and like, so Ipermorel and Hexerl and Sir Merell and C.JC and Malanatan. It really wasn't anything. Now there's thousands. Yep.

And I'll talk about a couple. And I don't want to know your favorites. Yeah. Tell me about your newest ones. So my favorites is Mots C. APV. I like CMAX and Selank. I'm really kind of gotten more into the understanding

of the importance of the neurological side. Yeah. And I've really done more of mind-body connection. That's thanks to Dr. Dave, Rayben. He's my boy. Yeah, I'm an advisor to Apollo. Yeah, I love Dave. And so you don't know this. I'm on the advisory board now too with Dr. Dave. Oh, right. That's right. That's why I'm wearing this right here.

But he taught me a ton. And I put together that understanding now of how important the mind is to actually affect our fitness and our health. And honestly, I put that higher understanding now how drastic like my anxiety was and the stress and everybody else goes through now. And piecing that together, I feel, has made me a more complete knowledge base for others to help. Yeah. Stimulate myself. And I'm sure you would agree on the neuroside. It's incredible. It's really funny. Some doctors will talk about muscle mass is the most important thing in VO2 max. You know what I'm talking about?

Yes. So here's the thing, though. Studies actually correlate with muscle strength more than muscle mass, which is based on neural drive. You look at the chalind monks who are doing these incredible feats that you can't do, or who's the guy who goes to gyms and looks like he's a janitor? Oh, shit. I don't know his name, but I love his videos.

He's great. I'm forgetting it's... I'm drawing a blank, but I want to call him Pavel. but that's not his name. No, but I see what, I see his video. So there are these guys who are massively stronger than people with twice the muscle mass. Mm-hmm. And like, that's interesting.

So it turns out strength is more important than mass, but you want a good amount of mass. Yeah, that's important. And that's because of neurological health and because of mind-body integration, which is just terribly important. And then on the V-O-2-Mex side, it turns out all of the studies that measure V-O-2-Max were not actually measuring V-O-2-Mex. They're inferring it with a broken algorithm. So the data's all junk. But you can still stand there and say, you know, I'm a longevity doctor who says you can't live longer.

You should do a lot of VO2 max training based on studies that aren't real. And you should have a lot of muscle mass ignoring strength. And I don't think that's how it works for longevity. I really don't. And I could be wrong. I'm willing to be proven wrong. But I find that, look, there's no doubt the importance of muscle and sarcopene is a very real thing. Yeah.

But getting too big for too long is very unhealthy. It's too much strain and stress on your heart, ligaments, joints like you were talking about earlier. There's a fine line. Yeah. And I think a lot of like the bodybuilders especially, they don't have any concept of that long term. All they care about is getting big right now. They don't worry about tomorrow or the future. And carrying too much weight for too long and eating too much is not good.

It's not. No, it's actually bad for you. And even when I was stress testing the Bulletproof diet before I, I wrote the book, I went 4,500 calories a day. That's high. And I cut my sleep to usually under four hours a night. I'm like, I'm going to gain like three pounds, but the calorie math is going to say 20 pounds. And I actually got leaner and I felt better.

And I just kept going for like a year. It was not good for me from the longevity perspective. But like I can do as I'm kind of liking it, except I just got tired of just forcing myself to eat more steak and butter. It's hard. Yeah. Like once you get over a certain point, man, it's like forceful. eat that much. Yeah.

You can smoke pot all night, make yourself as hungry as you want, and it's still hard. It's like you just don't want to do it. No. I found for me like that 3000 range, even though I'm on paper, it says to eat like $3,600 to maintain for my output,

I can't do much more than $3,000. Yeah. It's hard. And then it's not good. It doesn't feel good. You feel heavy and, yeah. And overeating any kind of calories,

even relatively good ones, actually I've never seen a paper that says that makes it by type of color but we just know overeating in general is not good for longevity right but also under eating isn't good either unless you're one of those like I eat 35% of those colors than I need

and I'm miserable all the time I don't think that's a good plan either now I know it's funny because when we were talking about the fat you know doesn't make you fat and everything if I was to tell you the five foods I can't live without they're all like higher fat I have eaten unlimited fat. I eat butter. I eat sheep cheese and sheep yogurt and I eat tallow. And I eat two ounces

max of olive oil every day. And I've done that for 15 years. Wow. And my blood is just fine. Yeah. My HDL went up 40 points. 40. The protective cholesterol. Yeah. Who would have thought? And your your testosterone went up too. Absolutely. I mean, I'm on ERT. But you know, it's still, it's last time I checked it, I was like, what happened here? It was way too high. And I take it like 100 milligrams a week and I was like well over a thousand. And normally I'm like seven, eight hundred right around there. There's nothing wrong with being a little over a thousand. No, but I was like, whoa, what happened here? I just got prescribed Kaiser Xerx. I'm going to try and see how that goes. But I have waited about a year now to see research and data on it. But I'm sick of injecting now

for so many years. I'm going to give it a shot. I've been on Kaiser's for last 18, months. Really? Yeah. And guys, that whole episode, Dave Asprey.com slash testosterone. I'll tell you about it. Yeah, and here's the deal. I've been injecting testosterone since I was 26 years old. Because at 26, my longevity doc is only one in the Bay Area was like, uh, Dave, I'd to tell you this, your testosterone's lower than your mom's. And my mom was his patient. And, well, that would explain why I'm really fat. And there's toxymol involved and sleep disruption, all kinds of stuff. So I went on it under a doctor's care and not above physiological.

I've been on it most of the time. I went on for a couple years when I was developing the bolder tight and I could get myself up to 700 if I did everything right. But for me, a thousand is the right number. Yeah. And guys need to understand this.

There is no right number. Your range could be anywhere from like maybe 500 all the way up to 1,500. And that might just be your normal. Right. And unless you're really healthy as an 18 year old and you measure the numbers, you're never going to know.

So you kind of have to see, how do I feel on these? Yeah. And the reason this new oral testosterone is interesting is if you inject testosterone, what is the side effect? Well, high estrogen, for one, you're going to crush your FSA and LH zero on.

So that's going to be a problem. If you do too much, there's potential heart risk. I mean, you got to go heavy on it, but that's definitely a problem. But when you shut down that LH and FSA, that's a lot of the reason for the, the fertility issues. But there's, I see high blood pressure.

I've seen it all. And you know, the one thing you did mention is your balls shrink. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's because LH and FSAH gets suppressed when inject testosterone. So guys, I'm just going to tell you I have, oh, I said, had small balls. Right. And it turns out they're harder to kick.

I don't know why it matters, except you need to have LH and FSA. That's right. So most guys who go on testosterone, they experience. Well, shrinkage unless you take the things that block that effect. And there's lots of ways with pharmaceuticals or natural substances. By switching from injectable testosterone. And I've injected it so many times in the during the same spot that when you do an ultrasound, you actually see facial disruption from 500 needle punctures into the muscle.

Right. So I can do better. So Kaiserrix is this oral form. And you take it and it doesn't cause ball shrinkage. And you get a brief peak every day. When you and I were injecting once a week, you get a big spike and then it goes down. But testosterone is also circadian. That's right.

So I think it works really well. I notice it. And, you know, the cool thing about having an oral testosterone pill, if it's date night, like, I'll just have an extra. Yeah. And then it hits you in, I don't know, I forget it's an hour or two. They're like, all right, I'm at my high testosterone right where I needed it most. That's right. And it just, it's just another thing in my supplement stack now.

It's a lot less work than traveling needles and all that crowd. Oh, I hate it. I put myself on it like a moron, which I don't ever advise, but I did exactly what I don't advise. You do to advise. I started it because I ran steroids, and then instead of running a post cycle, I just stayed on it. I've been doing that for, let's see, 12 years now like that. And then I found out about Kaiser's tricks right when it was coming out before it came out. And then I just talked to Shaylin Shaw about it several times.

Oh, so a couple times. Yeah, and he's great. and he said, I'm going to get you on it. You try it and let me know. And I just got it. And I'm giving that a whirl now. It's funny. People have a lot of judgment about testosterone,

even though it lowers all cause mortality. I know. And to have adequate testosterone. And just about no one alive has adequate testosterone because of the stuff we did to the environment because of lighting systems. So like if you want to show up in your life, testosterone drives dopamine. Dopamine drives motivation, new things that matter. It's important on your workouts work better.

this seems like a low pain way to do it without the downside of the way I did it before. Yeah. And there's no one. I'm just going to say this right now. If you're 19 or 29 and you have no money, that's actually how it was when I was 19 to 29. Actually, no, I made $6 million of 26.

I just lost them when I was 28. So by the time I was 20, I had no money. So I had a brief period of wealth in there. But the bottom line is, you know, when I was 22, I was sharing a one-bedroom apartment in a slum. Yep. And trying to pay for college, right? I welded Toyota truck frames and scooped Baskin-Robbins ice cream and did all the stuff, right?

If you run an at-home lab test, right, and there's plenty of those online. One of my companies does it, AXO.com. But you can get those anywhere. And it's going to cost you a couple hundred bucks. And your testosterone levels are really low. Do the biohacking stuff to raise your levels if they don't go up. There is nothing wrong morally with you. you deciding to treat yourself.

Like you don't need a permission slip from your government, your insurance company, your doctor, from God, from anyone. You get to do that. And if you put yourself on it, don't be an idiot, right? Do the work. And I would prefer you see a doctor. And if you don't have the money for a doctor, I would prefer that you be healthy. And that's the world we live in right now.

And it's okay to say, you know what? I did all my research. I asked a bunch of people. I did the best diligence I was capable of. And I ordered this drug from India. And it cost me $32. would it cost me $600 by the time I went to my doctor, which I don't have to cover my insurance and blah, blah, blah, blah.

No, like, you got to live. And just sometimes people do that. And it's okay. And it's not as good as going to a doctor. And maybe we'll build a system where, like, healthcare becomes affordable again. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, and you don't have to beg for permission to get what you're going to get anyway.

You know, my health insurance went from, for me and my wife, on a company thing from $1,200 to $18 something in this, this transdiscan, the transitional year here, and it was a little bit lesser of a plan. That's a house payment. I know. In a lot of the country. It is. Yeah, absolutely.

And what value do you get from it? Shit. I will tell you, if they save bill of insurance, I'm like, no, I'm just paying. Yeah. And most of the doctors that I see, and I actually a partner in a medical thing. But none of them take insurance anymore because insurance companies are useless. I know. Unless you have a massive car accident, it's useful.

So I oftentimes advise people, you know what, don't be like, oh, I can't get it because it's not That's not how it works. Just by catastrophic healthcare insurance and everything else. Put it in your FSA and FHA, yeah. One other thing I was going to say about the testosterone. So I will get this concept of it's cheating. Now, that's whether it's an athlete or for whatever the case. And I say it's cheating to put yourself at the level you're supposed to be at so you can

actually be who you're supposed to be. Tell me how that's cheating to make yourself perform how you're supposed to perform. Though really, all I'm doing is putting myself at the state I'm supposed to be at. at. So it's cheating. How? The idea of cheating is absurd. I agree. You know what always makes me mad? The people who talk most about cheating, they actually drive to the studio to talk about that. Yeah. They're using a car. They should be walking. Right. Like seriously, the car is cheating. Oh, and so with the shoes. So take those off. Oh my God, you mean we use technology to make life better? So your social thing is cheating.

Everything we are doing right now, including broadcasting this live, so people don't have to fly here and drive here to hear us is cheating. Exactly. So stop it. We're talking about effectiveness. We're talking about efficiency. We're talking about quality of life. And if you want to put shame and guilt on that, get a therapist.

It's not okay. I just don't need anybody ever telling me what is what and what is not what like that when I'm trying to take care of myself. Yeah. I don't need that. Absolutely. And just straight up. Yeah, guys, I'm cheating.

I'm cheating every which way I can. Right. I do everything to make my body healthier, my mind healthier. I use neurofeedback instead of meditating because it's more effective per minute. I use breath work instead of meditating or with meditation because it works better. Yeah. Right. And I use performance enhancers because I like to perform well.

That's right. It's okay. And I use ones that I don't use Adderall. This stuff is terrible for you. Yeah. I don't use cannabis. I drink like once or twice a year if it's older than me because it's not good for you. Right.

But there is, I'm on modafinil right now. I've been on modafinil for 25 years. years every day, almost every day anyway, about 100 milligrams, sometimes 50. Yeah. And you know what? It is one of the most effective and studied pharmaceuticals for cognitive function. I have no problems talking about it. And if you think I'm cheating, that's because you're losing.

Maybe you're a fibodafin. Well, and just because some doctor tells you that this is what you're supposed to take, if you look into it and you find yourself getting worse off when you take it and you've got to take more to compensate for that, to compensate for that, to compensate for that. I ask you, does that sound correct? How does that sound right that you have to take this to offset this to offset this next thing you know you're on 35 different medications? I know how to fix that. Let's mandate that people be forced to use medications so they don't have any choice at all.

That's a good idea, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, I spit in the face of that, literally. Yeah. I mean, that's why we do what we do. It's exactly why we do what we do. And I will not ask for a permission slip.

No. Me too. Take care of myself. Me. It's a fundamental innate. just it's a fundamental innate right and it's funny benjamin rush one of the fathers of the founding fathers on the constitution he was like guys if we do not put something in the constitution about the right to medical autonomy that we will have medical tyranny in the country and that happened yep and there's

even a broadway play about it but and like we could just do that right now and i almost feel like there might be enough after all this COVID nonsense there might be enough press. There'll be some people still wearing masks with blue hair who are angry about that. But they're going to be angry anyway. Who cares? I was on the plane and this lady sitting thing next to me with her mask on and then takes it off to start eating. And all I could think about was, you know, COVID just stopped working and it stopped moving around when you decided to eat.

Yeah, you know, you could sit down and you could eat. Now it was all good. But as soon as you put that mask back on and you were saving it was probably a bag of chips, right? Oh, that was the thing. I actually, I was, I had the internet hooked up and I was texting my wife and I said, this woman is eating dog shit next to me. I think she's protecting herself. She's feeding herself all of this toxic crap that they hand out to you and then breathing in

all the air that everybody else is when she takes it off to do it. I can't believe, and I could never wrap my head around how many people just fell in line with that and acted like that was sensical. Like, that was okay. I just am lost. And then when like when the curfews would come in, because COVID just, you know, it only goes at 9 o'clock at night or whatever they were doing it.

You know, I just, I can't wrap my head around any of that. And Fauci admitted he made out the six-foot thing. Yeah, and I still see signs about that somewhere. I take him down when I see him. But I'm like, he admitted that and he's not in jail. What happened to that guy? I am so lost. I am so lost.

I can't wrap my head around half of it. The bottom line is, if you want to live a long time, you want to feel really good, you're not the most profitable consumer. So you've got to do that work for yourself. And there are plenty of physicians, a lot of functional medicine. That's right. They're down to help. And there's guys like you and me. And we'll share what we know.

We're not doctors. You don't need to be a doctor to manage your own health. In fact, the vast majority of this is lifestyle. There's some tech you can use. you got your Apollo on. Mine's charging right now. Sorry, Dave. And that's just, that's how it is.

And yeah, there might be some pharmaceuticals. There might be some whatever's, but nobody gets to tell you. That's the most important thing. I agree 100%. And that's why we do what we do. And I always tell people, if you disagree, go do all of the shit that you want to do, take all the vaccines, take whatever you want. But don't mind me, because when I'm healthy and I'm living happy, I'm going to tell you

what I do and you can take it for what it's worth one way or another. And that's it. And the real is if you can tell me what I have to do, then I can tell you what you have to do and you can pound sand with your face. So let's not go there, right? Because the sand is going to hurt and I'm not going to eat kibble. It's just not going to happen. No, no, no. And it's a, it is so nice to know, like, when I found you that people like you were there that I could look at and go, okay, they got it. And I know I'm not nuts by any stretch of the imagination. We just needed a name for what we do so we could have a committee that's it that's why the that's why i do the bioccon conference in our 13th year now 5,000 people beyond biocconcom i'll see you there for sure favorite event of the year man

it is so good now we i did i did a mini documentary of going through their last year i have online it was it's such a phenomenal time and you know what i love about it is there's so many people in there even with differing opinions that are there for the same reason yeah to to fix ourselves and help others do the same. Yeah. And like, like, you can be carnivore. I don't think it's going to work long term. No, you can be vegan income and it, we might not have food for you, but that's your problem. You're not eating food anyway. But, you know, that's just how it's like everyone's welcome and you don't have to agree. And that is one of the spaces where I don't care about your politics. I don't care about your, your nutritional stuff, as long as it's working for you. And then we can be curious

about each other. And I just like to learn from people, even with the most complex or differing opinion because then I either learn something to try or I say, man, I know what not to do, but you're still learning something. Yeah. You know, and it's a beautiful thing and what you do and the things that you've done over all the years and, you know, people take their opinions however they want, but I can tell you this from me and from people like me that came in. It's beyond appreciative and you help shape a lot of the things that I do. Oh, man, thank you. Yeah. And it's it's something that I always come back to and then I take what you've done, try to mix it with what I've done, come up with the greatest things possible, what you've done massive. And you still do. And it's for me coming

from where I came from, it really helped me to grow in a variety of ways. That's what I'm here to do. And it's a movement, man. We're all evolving it together. And I'm grateful to be able to lead it, but I don't own the word biohacking. I didn't trademark it on purpose because that was for all of us. Yeah, we need a name for what we do, and now we have a tribes. Well, just know this from somebody like me, the amount of effect, it doesn't end. You know, it only gets bigger. And it's helped me to get my knowledge base bigger to help my audience and to keep sharing it. And that's what it's all about.

I appreciate him. Thank you so much, man. Thanks, you're going on the show. Absolutely. And they can find you on Instagram at Dylan. Gameli. Is it Jameli, Gemelli? Yeah.

Dylan Jameli biohacking. It's the name of your Instagram. So guys, make sure you get them a follow. And appreciate it. I appreciate you. Thanks, brother. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.