The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #33 Featuring Ben Azadi!! THE METABOLIC FREEDOM EPISODE! The importance and role of fats, intermittent fasting, the great oatmeal debate, met...

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

Episode #33 Featuring Ben Azadi! In this amazing interview, Dylan Gemelli utilizes his time with the amazing Ben Azadi covering a wide range of topics! Ben discusses his background and what motivated him to do what he does! Topics discussed are a breakdown of calories, discussing quality vs quantity and answering the question of whether or not all calories are equal. The discussion shifts to metabolic flexibility, followed with a very detailed discussion of the major role and importance fats play into our overall health. There is an intricate breakdown of intermittent fasting diving into what does and does not break a fast. The conversation moves to keto and then a comparison of keto vs carnivore. The proper sources of carbohydrates are discussed along with a discussion on mercury content in fish and then the great oatmeal debate with the myths of oatmeal discussed and of course, a discussion into Ben's new best selling book, "Metabolic Freedom" DO NOT miss this amazing interview!!   Check out Ben Azadi's Homepage and buy his new book here: https://benazadi.com/   Subscribe to Ben's Youtube Here: https://www.youtube.com/@KetoKamp   Follow Ben on instagram https://www.instagram.com/thebenazadi/?hl=en ______________________________________________________________________ Today's episode is sponsored by Apollo Neuro!   Get the Apollo Neuro for $90 OFF!! USE CODE GEMELLI to save https://apolloneuro.com/gemelli _______________________________________________________________________________ To PURCHASE MITOPURE visit Dylan's landing page and use code DYLAN to save 20% OFF!! https://shop.timeline.com/DYLAN     TONUM supplements for the MIND AND BODY!   USE CODE "DYLAN" to save!!  https://www.tonum.com/DYLAN     THE BREAKTHROUGH MIMIO HEALTH FASTING MIMETIC SUPPLEMENT!  20% OFF with code Gemelli  https://mimiohealth.sjv.io/c/6588260/3323599/30611     TRULY Increase Your NAD LEVELS with WONDERFEEL NMN: https://getwonderfeel.com/?utm_source=DylanGemelli&utm_medium=podcast     MESCREEN: The world's first and only at home mitochondrial efficiency test Save $100 with CODE   DYLAN   https://mescreen.com/cart/47561239626013:1?discount=&ref=DYLAN       HIRE DYLAN ON THE MINNECT APP HERE: expert.minnect.com/@DylanGemelli     Follow Dylan on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok @dylangemelli and PLEASE SUBSCRIBE and leave reviews!!   MAKE SURE TO GO TO DYLAN'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL for MORE video content!!    https://www.youtube.com/@DylanGemelliBiohacking Email Dylan for booking, collaborations and/or to apply for the Dylan Gemelli Podcast [e-mail] Visit Dylan's Homepage https://dylangemelli.com

Today's episode is sponsored by Apollo Neuro. Apollo is the leading doctor recommended wearable technology. Apollo's award-winning smart vibes AI works effortlessly behind the scenes, automatically integrating into your life to deliver gentle, personalized vibrations that activate your vagus nerve, helping you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up balanced, focused, and ready each day. Not only that, but the Apollo Neuro is the first and only wearable that improves your HRV. Apollo is effortless. Simply wear it throughout the day and night and let it do the work

for you. It's safe for anyone and everyone with no side effects and is the only wearable that can be worn anywhere on your body. Optimal health requires both the mind and body to be in line and Apollo is the key to establishing that connection. Check the description below to save $90 with my special discount. Take control over your health today with Apollo Neuro. All right everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Jameli podcast. So I have to say, I am super, super blessed with the people that I get to interview, the people that I get to meet and talk to. I have yet to this day to be this excited about a guest I've had. And that is not a knock against anybody else because I always get excited in amp. But my man today, we are going to have a conversation and he has a lot going on. He has

17 years of experience in the health industry. And he has five, yes, five bestselling books. And The one that we are really going to get into today is his new book, Metabolic Freedom. And it is literally one of the hottest items out there with good reason. He's also wrote KetoFlex, and he's been the go-to source for intermittent fasting and the ketogenic diet since 2013. And he's known as the Health Detective, which I love because he investigates dysfunction and he educates not medicaid. falls in line with everything we talk about here. He's the founder of Keto Camp, and Keto Camp is a global brand

that brings awareness to ancient healing strategies like the keto diet and fasting, and he's the host of the Metabolic Freedom Podcast, which is a top, to me, it's a top number one podcast, so I'm not even going to get into the Apple numbers. YouTube is off the charts, over 350,000 subscribers, 50 million video views. I could go on and on and on,

and I can't do this man justice, but my friends, welcome Benazazir. Oh, wow. What an intro. Well, Dylan, I am so excited to be here too. I love the work you're doing. You've been super supportive. And it's amazing to collaborate with you. We're going to have an incredible conversation today. Dude, like I said, and I told you prior. And for anybody watching, I reached out to Ben. It's only been a couple weeks, but we've talked a lot. And I feel like, you feel like you'd know somebody from watching them and getting a kind of feel for the heart. But one of the things I want to make a point before we get into the conversation about you, Ben, is that I love and that I love. And that I, I really believe in for the most successful people that I wish they would all be like, is your humility and the way you come across and how polite and how you respond to people and how you really give thanks for the praise you're getting and the platform you've gotten. And I can tell, because I'm very good at this, seeing people when they're really genuine and they really care. And one of the reasons that I kind of really came at you the way that I did and why I want to

keep conversing with you is because I believe in you. I believe in the message you bring. and it hits my heartstring because that's what I'm trying to do as well. Before we get into conversation, I guess I'm just saying thank you, man, for just being who you are. Thank you, bro. I see you as in the same light. I love the work you're doing. We're in the trenches together. God needs us.

The world needs us right now. This message is so important. It's not about book sales or downloads. It's about the impact. That is what it's about. And that's what you're about. You're a faithful man as well, which I respect. So right back at you, bro.

I receive that. I give you the love right back, Dylan. Love it, brother. Well, I want to take advantage of the time I have with you because I know how busy you are and I appreciate you taking the time for me today. So I think a lot of people are familiar with your backstory, but a lot may not be. And, you know, when we get into health and fitness stuff, a lot of us that get into it, something happened, whether it was to ourselves, a family member, something that triggered our interests into this field and then to become pioneers in what we do. So let's just take a little trip down memory lane here and discuss why you got into all of this and became so. so heavily driven into what you're doing today.

You know, pain to purpose, like so many of us out there, we look back in retrospect in 2020 hindsight and we see all those stressors and stressings that became blessings. But when you're in it and you're living in that rock bottom, it's hard to see that. And I lived in that rock bottom for a very long time. I was very unhealthy as a kid, Dylan. I was obese as a child physically and also mentally obese. I had bad behaviors. I know a little bit about your backstory.

There's some similarities here. I had addictions to drugs and sugar and video games and toxic relationships. My mom actually worked at Kentucky Fried Chicken, two of them, when I was a kid and a whole bunch of Kentucky Fried Chicken as a kid. My mom did the best she could do with her resources. And I was very unhealthy. So nothing changed as an adult. I found myself back in 2007, a 23-year-old young man where most people, when they're 23 years

old, they're graduating college, starting a career, building a family. I was not doing that. I was on the internet looking for ways to end my life. I was depressed. I was inflamed. I weighed 250 pounds at this time. I had knee pain, back pain, pre-diabetes, erectile dysfunction. Of course, I was overweight and obese. And I just wanted to feel better. I thought my body was broken. And I was blaming my family members, my slow metabolism. And I would express my symptoms and my problems to my doctor. My doctor never asked me the question, hey, what are you eating? Let's discuss your lifestyle. Those questions never came up. The question he asked was, what can I prescribe for this 23rd? year old man and he would recommend a medication, but I never took it because I thought I was too young to go on a medication. And I wanted to give up on life. I explored that, but what stopped me from going through if it was thinking about my mom, I love my mom. She's my superhero, still to this day. Yeah, and I didn't want to cause that devastation for her. So it stopped me from taking my own life.

And I knew I had to figure things out. And it really, for me, it started with reading self-development books before it was health and nutrition and fitness. It was Dr. Wayne Dyer, Bob Proctor, Tony Robbins. It was these incredible books that I just started to pick up and read that, number one, helped me take ownership and responsibility, which I think a lot of people lack. And what I learned about responsibility from Dr. Wayne Dyer, he said, responsibility, that is your ability to respond to life. When your ability to respond to life is poor, you get poor results. But when you take ownership, you get great results. So I stopped blaming my genetics, my slow metabolism, my enabling family members. I stopped being the victim of my history.

And I started to become the victor of my destiny. And then I started moving my body. I started eating real food. And I went through this incredible transformation where I lost 80 pounds in nine months. I went from 34% body fat at my highest to 6% body fat at my lowest and completely just transformed my physical appearance, but also not just a physical six pack, which is great, but a mental six pack is what I achieved. And depression and those thoughts have wanted to take my life, they started to dissipate. And that was 17 years ago, as you referenced in the intro, and I've been in the health space ever since. And I'm really passionate about teaching these

ancient healing strategies to allow the world to achieve metabolic freedom, which is metabolic flexibility. So I am grateful to be here with you to talk about that mission and that passion. You know, and there's a lot there of relatability with me and you, but I'll tell you what I personally loved the most that you said there, and it came down to accountability. For some reason, I feel like as time has gone on, there's been less and less and less accountability and more and more excuse and blame. And I'm not trying to be a hard ass here about it, But the point is when we're accountable, we can actually achieve something and make a difference, make a change, do something different to make something better. But when you find an excuse for every little thing, you use that as a crutch and you only go backwards and we never go forward.

And I think that one of the things in accountability is take a deep look in the mirror and saying, okay, it's time. It's time. I'm wrong. And I think when you do that like you did and like, you know, I've had to do multiple times, unfortunately, that's when we can start to make a change. and then we can make a change for other people too. So I admire that in a very deep way. And do you feel like that you becoming accountable then helped you to really kind of shift your way into studying and implementing and then teaching?

Do you think that's when it hits you to, okay, I'm accountable now, now I can make progress, now I can help other people? Do you feel like you credit that to your drive? 100%. Taking accountability and ownership, to your point, Dylan, it's the first step to great change. It's so easy to blame others. for your problems. And I remember Dr. Wayne Geyer, he said, if other people were the actual cause of your problems, you would have to hire a psychiatrist or everybody you know in order for you to get

better. Well, that's not realistic. When you take ownership, it's difficult, but it's the first step towards grade change. And when you do the things you say you're going to do, you develop conviction, you develop confidence, and then you could teach that. Those people out there are in our space, by the way, not just a conventional, but holistic space, that are teaching and they don't live it to lead it. teaching from things they've learned, but not necessarily have lived. They don't last a long time. Right. But when you live it and take ownership and then you lead it, you have sustainability.

You have energy. To your point, you have drive. So yeah, to answer a question, yes, it's a huge driver for me. I've been there myself. I'm not just some lean, fit guy right now telling people, you could lose weight and you don't have to be obese. No, I've been there myself. And I think more so than my 17 years and books and accolades, I think more than any of that,

my authority comes from my experience. And same thing for you. Your authority comes from your experience. And I think a lot of people in our space, not a lot of people, but some people in our space don't have that particular experience. You know, I spent a lot of years trying to be perfect and create an image and do things that just are non-existent. And once I realized, and one of the things I live by is most of the best teachers have made the most mistakes. Now, granted, they have learned from them immediately and not, you know, continue to do the same things. But a lot of us that have the knowledge or the drive, we've been through it and we've screwed up. up or we've been in like the worst predicaments possible and dug ourselves out of it. And I'm not saying that's the case for everybody, but I think you'll find, like you said, a lot of people that have lived it and done it are going to be the ones that are going to last the longest because we know what it's like to overcome adversity. We know what it's like to deal with it.

And life is constant adversity. It is. If you are living in la la la land and rainbows and unicorns and thinking that every day is going to be perfect, you've got another thing coming. And I think when you can accept that and do what you said, be accountable. and push through it, that's what's going to make success. And that's what's going to help people struggling with diet. You know, instead of making an excuse on why you can't, figure out why you can and make it a

priority. And that's where I want to shift to now with you. I'm going to throw you some numbers. I want your opinion. And then we'll go from there in terms of like diet and sustainability. So I came from a background more so working with bodybuilders and trying to convey this message, the big steroid meatheads. This was not my space, but that's where I was.

So my argument with them would be because they all want to depend on supplement steroids, you know, whatever. My argument is if you're going to base your results down on a number percentage, I'm saying 75 to 80% of your results are going to come from your diet, 10 to 15% are going to come from your training, and 5% or less will come from any outside things that you take for enhancement or whatever. Me basically explaining diet is everything. And then everything else kind of falls in line.

What's your view on that? Yeah, I think it's wide on. To the conversation on the mindset part, I think if we're not including mindset, that's an accurate statement. If we're including mindset, I would say 95% is mindset. We've got it in nutrition and the rest fitness and supplementation. But if we're excluding the mindset part, absolutely. The food you eat has a huge impact on everything, the thoughts you think, your inflammation levels, your performance in the gym. It is so important to clean up the foods you're eating because the food supply we have now. It's poisoned. We have been poisoned for years. And it's not conspiracy. It is factual. There's many studies. There's many

documentation on this. So to answer your question, yes, 80 percent, you saying 80 percent of the equation here is nutrition. I agree with you. And then, yeah, you want to make sure you have your fitness routine in place. You want to make sure you have supplementation. But to your point, a lot of people, they'll skip the nutrition part and they'll try to out train a bad diet or out supplement a bad diet, but that's foundational. So I agree with you, bro. Yeah, because if you break down blood markers and then this is one I really want your opinion on you start breaking down blood markers which I think are going to be the key in terms of how your diet actually is and that's why I want to get into this all calories are equal and calories in calories out because we're

going to have fun with this this is for the calorie bros I despise the all calories or equal concept and here's my argument we got two hands one hand we got a 400 calorie big mac and in the other hand, we've got 122, 4, 4,000, well, almost 4 ounces of chicken to be in that equivalent range, 3 and a half ounces, give or take. You're telling me that the 400 calories in this hand and the 400 calories in this hand are equal and or a kit cat in one hand and a plate of vegetables in the other hand. Calories in calories out, all calories are equal. I just don't understand how you can argue that each one is equal in any way, shape, or form. You're telling me that all this sugar and all this crap and whatever else is in all of that. And then this,

We'll say pasture-raised organic chicken eggs, whatever we want to put over here, healthy, clean food. How on earth can one justify that those are equal in any sense of the word whatsoever, otherwise from what law of thermodynamics we want to call it or whatever we want to, however we want to shift the narrative, please expound and please correct for me? Yeah, yeah, no, the law of thermodynamics. That's the only reason, which a lot of flaws with that. You know, calories matter. They're a distraction.

The premise that these individuals have, the ones, the SICO, the calories in versus calories outbrose, as you call them. Yeah. Their premise is that we need you to lose weight in order for you to get healthy. That's not how the metabolism works. We don't lose weight to get healthy. We get healthy to lose weight. Very different.

Right. And on top of that, nobody has a weight problem, Dylan. I had never had a weight problem. If somebody's watching this and they're 400 pounds right now, they don't have a weight problem. It's a weight symptom. Focusing on calories treats the symptom. looks at the symptom. It's not about the quantity of those 400 calories. It's about the quality. It's about the hormonal metabolic response after you've eaten them. To your point,

chicken brass, three and a half ounces. If you eat that, there's a very different metabolic process that occurs versus 400 calories of the Big Mac. So it's about the hormonal response after you've eaten that. When we focus on calories, it distracts us from what really matters, which is hormones and inflammation. You could only cut your calories so far until you, your metabolism will slow down to a certain point. And then there's no more cutting. I mean, how far can you go? It's deprivation.

You rely on willpower. It's a finite resource. And the tricky thing is that when you cut your calories, even if it's with crappy food, if you cut your calories, you're probably going to lose weight in the beginning. Right. You probably will.

But then what happens is you'll stop losing weight. And most people think, I just need to cut more or I need to exercise more or do a combination of both. And the scale budges a little bit. And they thought, oh, that's all, that was it. That's all I needed to do. and then it slows down and then it stops.

So you keep plateauing. You could only cut so much. But when you focus on quality over quantity, when you focus on hormones and inflammation, you don't have to rely on willpower. You don't have to measure everything that goes into your mouth. That's right. It becomes easy.

The weight comes off as a side effect because you're getting healthy to lose weight, not the other way around. Yeah, you can't outrun or outwork a bad diet. You just can't do it. Nope. You can. Not long term. No, that's right.

Only so long. So, okay, I'm glad we cleared that up. and I appreciate that. What is for everybody listening? Because I think this could maybe confuse some people. What is metabolic flexibility? That's the way God designed us. God designed our metabolism to take any substrate.

So a substrate is carbohydrates, protein, fat. A substrate is your own body fat. A substrate is sunshine. Anything that's available for fuel and your metabolism uses it for energy and you produce energy and you burn fat. That's metabolic flexibility. 93% of a merit. Americans cannot do that. They're only using one substrate sugar. Right. Glucose. They're stuck

burning sugar. They're metabolically inflexible. In other words, they're not metabolically free. They're in a metabolic prison. When you're a sugar burner, like 93% of Americans, that's not just a made-up stat. It's a 2020 study I put in the book. When you're stuck burning sugar, you have to rely on food for energy. Snacking and grazing, eating food, especially carbohydrates, to get a glucose spike. You have this instant gratification. and satisfaction, and you might get some short-term energy and then it drops, and then you can't burn fat or anything else, so you have to eat more food, you have to keep eating food. It's a really difficult way to live your life. Metabolic flexibility means you don't have to snack.

Heck, you could fast for a day. You could fast for five days. You could travel and not eat anything. What I typically do, and you burn body fat. And then when you eat food, you burn the food for energy. You're not storing any excess fat. That's metabolic flexibility. That's the way that God designed us to work.

I love it. Thank you for the breakdown. I appreciate it. I wasn't even sure how to really piece that together until I listened to you talk about it. I mean, I have an idea of what it is, but you made it simple and I appreciate it. I told you before, and I don't want to make this about anything to do with me, but I want you to analyze something for me. And I kind of told you and you agreed that we should talk about this. I think it's important we humanize ourselves like you did earlier and talk about the mistakes

we made. So I'm going to be very brief here. I've struggled with an eating disorder, never made that a secret. I was a fashion model. I have been in the bodybuilding. I've been scrutin. on platforms, yada, yada, yada, yada. Not what was me, just a fact, okay? And so for the past, man, I don't know, 10 years. I've been living a certain way where I work out, I do 90 to 100 minutes of cardio a day, and then I also do heavy weight training for another hour, hour and a half, and then sometimes even other activities.

So you imagine I'm burning 35 to 100 to 4,000 calories a day combined with normal, you know, resting and everything like that. And I have, even as a nutrition, that fear of eating any fats like at all, even knowing in my heart that that's completely wrong. But I developed that fear and you know what that's like when you develop that. It can become so consuming. So my wife would make me about 13 to 15 servings of vegetables. Every single day I'm talking five, six green peppers, two zucchini, box of mushrooms, whole onion.

And then there'd just be bowls of them in the refrigerator. And I'm getting up every 30 minutes to go eat some. And then all I'm eating for fats is the peanut butter that I can. can't stop eating throughout the day. And then it's like Greek yogurt, protein powder, egg whites, not whole eggs, just egg whites. And the biggest serving of oatmeal with protein powder and peanut butter you've ever seen in your life. Okay. And I did this for like 10 years. And you can imagine brain fog, irritability, trouble sleeping, can't stay focused. Every 20, 30 minutes I'm getting up and walking around. And where I'm going is I want to talk about animal fats and

carbs and all of this relation and the demonizing of fats specifically. I went in one day and finally told my wife, and it was Thomas DeLore was talking about cutting on red meat and I was watching him and I was like, man, I am so miserable and I just can't take it anymore. And I went in there one day and I said, you know what? We're going to go to Whole Foods today because she's been praying for this forever, right? I said, we're going to Whole Foods today. I said, I know I tell you I don't like avocados.

Well, I don't even know if I like avocados because I just think they look gross. I want one today. We're going to go by all the grass-fed ground beef we can. I'm going to go get salmon, which I tell you I hate, and I'm just going to fucking make myself eat it. And then so I set this whole thing up, bro, and I went from 15,600 calories a day to 27,100, 15 grams of fat to 120 to 130, carbohydrates under 100.

And protein, I weigh 180, so I'm trying to get 250 because I'm going for about one and a half as opposed to one based on the want for lean muscle on the amount of work now. And I'm telling you what, I have not felt this good in my entire life. I'm pissed off that I wasted so many years not eating meat and enjoying myself and butter is one of those things I use for everything now.

Kerry Gold, grass fed all day. And dude, I haven't been this cut since I was using steroids. And this happy and this like lean and healthy and my blood markers, like, because I had a heart thing I found with a high LP little A, which we'll discuss some other time in private. But, you know, they wanted to put me on statins and things which I refused.

But everything is beautiful blood panel wise. So I guess, one, why the changes like do you see in terms of all the symptoms I gave you so we can expound on that? Because I'm sure there's plenty of people that have fear of fats. And two, just your overall feeling of demonization of fats and why they're good. And I just want you to get into all of that because I really have made it a, like a goal of mind to get people to understand this, you know, after what I went through. prevent people from going through it. Yeah, I mean, you made some dramatic changes, all for the

better, too. And we've all kind of been there. We've been taught that saturated fats, cholesterol, it's bad for it. It's the boogeyman, right? It creates heart disease, inflammation, cell resistance, diabetes. The term is called lipophobia. I talk about it in the book, right? The fear of dietary fat based off of 50 plus years of propaganda and misinformation, that information that started to get popular in the 1950s, it started the whole low-fat movement, the low-fat craze. And I've been there myself. I wasn't there for 10 years like you, but I had been there myself for a few years. And what happens is when you eat low-fat and avoid animal fat, the butter you mentioned, the beef, the saturated fat and the cholesterol,

you're starving your hormones, you're starving your brain. Yeah. Cholesterol is one of the most important fats for the human body. Cholesterol builds our cell membranes. It builds all of our hormones. It's the building blocks for all of our hormones, including testosterone, but all of them. And you felt off because your hormones were depleted. Your brain was being starved of this important fat, cholesterol and saturated fat. The brain is mostly fat. And the cell membrane, we have 50 to 70 trillion cells in the body. The membrane is where the intelligences. That's where you have your hormone receptor sites. That's where hormones and oxygen and nutrients get into the cell for energy production and fat loss. The membrane is the most important part of the cell. It's like the body

guard of the cell, it tells the DNA what to do. It controls epigenetics. And it's so important, the question should be asked, what is it made of? What is it love? It's made up of saturated fat and cholesterol, the two things that we've demonized. How could it be bad for you if the human body's made of it? It's insane. So to your point, you're going to see, you're going to feel better, first and foremost, like you outlined. You probably had more energy. I'm sure your libido was improved, your vitality and energy was improved. But your lab markers will improve too. Your inflammation will go down. Red meat is one of the most anti-inflammatory superfoods in the world. There's not one vegetable, including kale, broccoli, spinach, or whatever it is, that has the vitamins and minerals

and nutrients that ground beef does, for example. A lot of the times when we're eating all these vegetables, people don't understand that the vegetables have these anti-nutrients that lock in these vitamins and minerals. So you're not even getting all the benefits, but with red meat, for example, no anti-nutrients. It's highly absorbable. It has great minerals, vitamins, iron that's absorbable. So I'm a big fan of animal products. I'm a big fan of cholesterol and red meat myself. 95% of my diet is more of a carnivore diet. So we need to get away from that. It's BS. You're going to notice you're going to feel better. Your labs are going to improve. It's going to give you the building blocks for all of your hormones. And we need to detach away from the low carb BS because that's what it is. It fooled us. And unfortunately, a lie repeated often in a enough becomes the truth. And that's one of those lies, the cholesterol thing. And I'll just add one more thing, Dylan. The main reason why, the main reason why most doctors still villainize cholesterol

and saturated fat was because in the 1950s, there was a scientist, the researcher named Ansel Keys, who worked with the United States government. And he did this study, because this is when President Eisenhower was having, he had a heart attack and heart diseases on the rise. And they're like, this is a problem. We need to figure this out. So this researcher Ansel Keys wanted to figure it out. He wanted to be the nan to figure this out. So he did a 22 country study looking at the top 22 countries that have the highest rate of heart disease. And he wanted to show that those same countries consumed the highest amount of cholesterol and saturated fat. When he did the study, he found out that only seven countries fit that hypothesis.

So he hid the other countries and said, called it a seven country study and said these seven countries, including the U.S., eat the most saturated and most fat. And that's why they have heart disease. And what he didn't share is that they were consuming fake fats, like margarine and trans fats. But the government took that information, then boom, the low fat craze happened. And when they do optopsies on people who have heart attacks, these heart attack victims, they see a lot of cholesterol in the arteries. And their hypothesis is that the cholesterol is what caused the heart attack. That's why they died.

That's like saying every time there's a fire in my neighborhood, I noticed that there were firefighters at the scene of the crime, they caused the fire. Right. It doesn't make any sense. The firefighters are there to put out the fire. The cholesterol is there to put out the fire of the body, the inflammation. So it's not cholesterol causing heart disease. It's inflammation.

And that's the road we want to tackle. That's what we want to view and find out what's causing the inflammation. Thank you for that breakdown. I couldn't agree more. I honestly find that the low fat diets are the most detrimental. Health marker-wise, feeling-wise, everything. I think it literally is, I'd rather see a higher carb diet than a low-fat diet, honestly, because I think it's worse, depending on the carbs reading.

But I mean, yeah, I totally agree. And it's funny because I've seen your fat foods that you say are the best for fat burning. And it's like the whole list and my list too. I was laughing because I told my wife the other day, I said, you know, I said, I'm making a list of what I feel are the best fat burning foods. I compared it to yours. And I said, what do you notice about every single one of these? And you kind of looked at me. And I said, every single one of them is a high fat food.

Every one on this list, because I'm going avocados, I'm going salmon. I'm going like nuts. and I'm going whole eggs, full fat yogurt. And I'm just going down the list and it's just, that's what they all have in common. They're all higher fat foods. And to your point that you've made in your book, you will not snack at all. You will feel so satiated and full and good and you don't have any cravings. I have noticed that I have like no cravings for anything whatsoever.

And I like to mix a couple different fats together with very rarely do I have any kind of carb at all. A lot of my carb comes from pomegranate juice that I'm using to kind of try to reverse some plaque I have in my artery. So otherwise, basically, it's just one piece of Ezekiel bread. And then there's a little bit in my Greek yogurt, a little bit in my protein. It's just like little bits and pieces, right? And I feel so good with the lower carbohydrate intake, even with my output. And so I guess I've seen you discuss keto and you said it's not a diet. And I would like you to expound on that.

but I want to talk about sustainability of being lower carb and the arguments against keto and how you can counter argue those because I'm living it and I've seen it and I used to be the one on the opposite side kind of talking bad about keto because I felt like in my head, well, we can only get energy to our brains from carbs and I was just creating things and parroting information as a jerk would at the time until I started to really deeply study it and get real facts. And so I really want your expertise on this to help people overcome bad information, misconceptions, misguidance, all of that because I really feel like you're the go-to on this that I would really trust to convey this. And you're the first person I've really asked to dig deep into

this. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. It's an honor to dig deep into it. Keto, chapter 7 of metabolic freedom is all about keto. As you reference, keto is not a diet. It's a metabolic process. There's nothing new about keto. It's just new to some people or nuanced. But in reality, this metabolic process called ketosis has been around for as long as humans have existed. Every single one of our ancestors did keto. How do I know that? Well, they didn't have food available all the time, so they had to fast. And when you fast, you get into ketosis. Ketones are simply a byproduct of burning body fat. When you burn body fat, you send those fatty acids to your liver and your liver, and then some variations to kidneys, too, produce ketones, which fuels the body, fuels every cell,

including your brain cells. What's interesting about what you shared just a couple of minutes ago with glucose and carbohydrates being the number one's energy source for the body, that is parroted all the time. And I thought the same thing, too. What's really fascinating when I have those conversations with people, here's how it goes. They'll say, yeah, but isn't glucose the number one prayer, like the number one energy source for the body? I'll say, hey, do you know that in all medical textbooks, there's no such thing as essential

carbohydrates? There are essential fats in every medical textbook, which are called essential fatty acids, EFAs. There are essential proteins called essential amino acids. There's no such thing as essential carbohydrates because the human body can make all the glucose necessary at any point through a process called gluconeogenesis. It could make it from the protein you eat, the fat you eat, your own body fat, or even your liver and your adrenal glands could produce it through cortisol and gluconeogenesis.

So yeah, we always need glucose. That is true. but we don't have to eat that glucose. The body could make it through various ways. But we always need protein and fat. That's essential. Ketosis is really important. You know, the 93% of Americans that are a sugar burner,

I call them being they're in a keto deficiency. They forgot how to burn fat, Dylan. And babies that are born into this world and breastfed are actually in ketosis, meaning burning fat is our primal birthright. Breast milk has saturated fat and cholesterol. We just spoke about that. And it helps that baby produce ketones because it helps the neurological development of that baby's brain, which is very important at that time. But then we wean the baby

off the breast milk. We give it high sugar instant formula or it snacks and it grazes as an adolescent, myself as included, and we teach it to be a sugar burner. And now it's 30 years old, 40 years old, 60 years old, and it's stuck burning sugar. We need to get them back to burning fat. The tricky part with keto is that there are so many different ways to do keto. There are thousands of ways to do it. Not every way to do it is healthy for you. You could eat bad fats and get into ketosis. it doesn't mean you're getting healthy. So I make that clear in the book. But when you're in ketosis, your cells are producing 400% more energy, more ATP than when you're stuck burning sugar.

That's extraordinary because it raises your basal metabolic rate. You produce more energy. It raises glutathione in the body, raises antioxidants in the body. It's incredible. Now, with all that being said, should we be in ketosis for the rest of our lives? No. No, we should not. I don't agree.

And I am big in keto. my company's keto camp and I've spoken at so many keto conferences and my colleagues do not agree with me. They think that what I'm sharing here to go out of ketosis and back into ketosis is the wrong approach. They think you should do keto forever. That's another form of metabolic inflexibility. We want the ability to burn fat and sugar, go back and forth. And that's what I call metabolic flexibility in the book, Metabolic Freedom. Excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent.

Okay, perfect. So, question, because I've heard you talk about keto. I've heard you talk about carnivore. Which one do you maybe prefer or maybe it's just timing wise one is better at a certain time or the other? And can you just give like a what's the difference? Because I think that's a question. I don't ever see it talked about or answered like comparison. Just a basic simple comparison.

Because I think there's a lot of similarities, but there are key differences. And I would love for you to talk about that. So people get an understanding to maybe figure out, is this something we should be doing both of? Is one, you know, better for me than the other? So break that down, please. Great question. It's an important question because you're right. not really spoken about. What do they have in common? Well, when you're doing a carnivore diet,

you are in ketosis. So it could be considered a keto diet, but it's not a traditional keto diet. A traditional keto diet is when you take your total carbohydrates and drop that under 50 grams per day, total. And the majority of those carbs, if not all of those carbs are coming from green leafy vegetables, non-sarchy carbs. That's not carnivore. A carnivore is only protein and fat, only animal product. So red meat, dairy, in some cases, poultry, seafood, eggs, no carbs, no vegetables, not even fruit, nothing. So that carnivore is a little bit more extreme. Usually the progression is like this. Somebody is doing a standard American diet and they usually go to a low carb diet. And that's different than a keto diet. A low carb diet is taking your total carbs from 300 grams of

carbs per day, like the average person, to around 100 to 150 grams of carbs. It's kind of like a paleo diet, but it's not low enough to enter ketosis. So that's the first progression, which is great progression. Then they usually drop their carbs even more under 50 grams to get into ketosis. They get those benefits and then they eventually progress to zero grams of carbs, which is a carnivore diet. That's usually the progression. The carnivore diet, I prefer. I love the carnivore diet. I feel the best in the carnivore diet. It's really great for those who have autoimmune conditions, leaky gut, intestinal permeability. It works really well because you're removing all these plant toxins, all of these anti-nutrients. You're allowing your gut microbiome to heal itself, which

is at the root of these autoimmune conditions. So if you have autoimmune, I would recommend getting to a carnivore diet eventually. If you don't, if you're just looking to get health benefits and burn some fat, you don't have to go that aggressive. You could just do a keto approach and kind of go in and out of ketosis. But personally, my routine, Monday through Saturday, I'm usually carnivore with intermittent fasting. And then Sunday, I flex out. I have a whole bunch of healthy carbs and I don't do much fasting.

What's your fasting schedule then generally? 186, usually. So six hour eating window, two to three. meals, getting my protein requirements, and then fasting for 18 hours. So for the people that are kind of newer to intermittent fasting, what can one have that won't break a fast? And what's something common that people think won't break it, but actually does? Ooh, good one. Yeah, that's actually the most popular question I get asked about what breaks a fast. First, we need to define what breaks a fast. Like, what's a definition of breaking the fast is what

I'm trying to say. So for me, my definition of breaking a fast is when you raise glucose. and start the digestive processes. Because when you raise glucose, obviously insulin goes up, and then you lower autophagy, which is this cellular cleanup process. So anytime glucose goes up, insulin goes up, autophagy goes down, and then you start your digestive system. So that is my definition of breaking a fast. So what does that?

Any carbohydrates will do that. So that's a no-go. Any protein that's over five or 10 grams will do that as well. Okay. For liquids, the surprising thing is coffee. So coffee is incredible. I love coffee. You're drinking coffee right now, right?

Yeah. You're having your short chain fatty acid coffee. That's right. Coffee is incredible when it's the right type of coffee. And for some people, coffee breaks a fast. For some, it doesn't. The only way to know is to test your blood glucose right before you have the coffee, drink your coffee, and then test it 45 minutes later.

And if your blood glucose goes up five points or higher, it's breaking your fast. But if you don't see it go up, if it drops or stays the same, it's safe. But it's different for everybody. I've tested hundreds of people. Tea is safe. Tea when it's unsweetened, like an herbal tea, like chamomile or green tea, that's safe. Obviously, water and electrolytes that are non-flavored are safe. Supplements are mostly safe.

I would avoid taking fat soluble supplements during a fast, anything with vitamin A, D, E, and K. That needs fat to really be absorbed, and you're not really absorbing that if you have it on the empty stomach. Apple cider vinegar is great for a fast. It doesn't break a fast, supports a fast. You're a short chain fatty acids and your medium chain fats are great. for a fast, doesn't break a fast, olive oil doesn't break a fast, coconut oil doesn't break a fast, even though there's calories there. So yeah, that's kind of a breakdown of what breaks it and what doesn't break it. Sweet. I got something else that I think is a good one. How do you know

if you're in or out of ketosis? How do you know when you've gotten into it? How do you know when you're out of it? You could test. There are machines to test. There's three different ways to test. There are breath ketone meters because there's three ketone bodies. Acetone is what your body expels through breath so you could breathe into the machine. Yeah. Give you a reading. There's urine strips, which looks at acetoacetate, which is the second ketone body. Those two are not my favorite methods of testing ketones.

My favorite method is blood, and it's a finger prick, which tests for beta-hydroxybutyrate, which is BHB, the most potent ketone body. And if you test your ketone, and I use a company called Keto Mojo to test that, when you prick your finger and put that blood into a strip, put that strip into the machine, and if it registers 0.5 or higher, you're in ketosis. Got it. So that's the best way to know for sure. Now I remember the last, the HOS convention I was at in Austin,

they had a booth there where they were doing the ketone breathing. I can't remember the name of the company up top of my head, but I am. With a keto air? Yes. That's who it was. Yep. Yep. And they were busy and I was going to do something.

I had to run to a meeting. And so I didn't get a chance to try it. But yes. Okay. So, you know, one of the turning points for me, when I made those changes and I realized because I'm a big data guy. I am really big on every piece of data I can get. And I had a friend there that has a company.

It's noy, P-N-O-E. I'm sure you've heard of it. And they do like the breath analyzing. It's like the lumen where they test your breath, except this is really intricate. And he's tested me. And he said, man, you are chewing through fat. And he was showing me the breakdown.

It was like 75 fat, 25 carbs. and I started to think to myself, huh, you know, why am I? So I really wanted to understand why. And then like, man, maybe if I start eating higher fat, then it's going to be, you know, quality for me. How do you feel about like the lumen and those breasts, you know, tests? Do you feel that they're accurate in terms of them kind of telling you if you're, your percentage on what you're burning for fats and carbs?

And what's going to have the effect on your body? So, for instance, some days I wake up and I'm at, the level one and it says I'm burning 95 fat and five cars, but then I have some mornings where it's like 55, 45, 45. And I'll tell you this, that I know when I sleep less or kind of like a bad sleep than I wake up kind of more in that closer to even range. When I sleep good or longer, I'm in that big zone. What affects that? And how do you feel about that kind of data in general? Is it accurate or what's your feeling? I haven't used them that much. I mean, I've had Lumen reach out to me a few times. I think the keto mojo is the most accurate way to test your blood sugar

end blood ketones. That's the most accurate way. But not everybody wants to prick their finger. So I see that being a valuable resource to breathe in and see if you're burning sugar, carbs versus fat. It's not telling you if you're in ketosis. This is different. Right. And your sleep, to your point, Dylan, plays a big role because when you're not getting good sleep, you're going to raise cortisol and glucose the next morning. So you're not going to be burning as much fat. You'd be having a mix as you saw there. When you get good sleep, you burn more fat. So maybe it's a tool to give you an idea of which direction you're in, but I haven't used it enough and looked at the data enough to kind of give you my thoughts on it. I know that I love glucose testing and ketone testing. I haven't done

much of the breath meters. The CGMs are very great. Yeah, very good notes. Yeah. I would recommend everybody at least give that a 30-day run. You know, stello or whatever is the one that I used. I have not affiliated with them, but that's what I use. I think it's really important to get the data to see what you're consuming is affecting you. I really believe in that. lot. And I don't think enough people take it serious enough. And I may go overboard in the way I count and see things, but I want to know, man. Like, I want to know every little thing, you know. In one of your chapters in your book, you talk about foods that affect metabolism. What are your favorite foods that really support metabolism? And why are they your picks in terms of that

support and helping to get a better, you know, metabolism going? Yeah, it's going to be the food still in that. Number one, lower inflammation, cell inflammation. Number two, lower insulin, the fat storage hormone, the only hormone in the body that stores fat, insulin. So that's going to be foods that are primarily high quality protein and fat. Eggs, as you mentioned earlier, not just the egg whites like you were doing, but the eggs with the yolk, I think eggs are mother nature's multivitamin. It's God made it to give us all the nutrients. Diozanthine, lutein, there's omega fats, omega-3 fats in there.

There's DHA. And they also help you burn fat and lower inflammation. So eggs with the yolk are great. You don't want to overcook those eggs. You want them to be like soft scrambled or runny yolks. That's where you're going to preserve the nutrients. Red meat, whether it's steak or ground beef, great anti-inflammatory fat burning food. Butter, like you mentioned, the Kerry Gold.

Yeah, absolutely. Grass-fed butter, grass-fed ghee, terrific fat burning food. Avocados are also great, too. And you're more of a plant-based person. That's a good option for you because it's a fruit technically. But avocados are great in healthy fats. Avocados are loaded with phytal sterols, which help lower inflammation, loaded with B vitamins that help with stress and adrenal issues.

I have a video I published on what happens in your body when you eat one avocado every day for seven days. And a lot of people took that challenge. I've been seeing some of the comments. You start to lose weight, lower inflammation. And then I love foods that help your body produce ketones because ketones, as we established, are highly anti-inflammatory, great for fat loss. So those are going to be foods that have a good percentage of medium chain triglycerides.

it's MCTs. That's going to be sheep and goat dairy. 30% of sheep and goat dairy contain MCTs and it helps your body boost ketones. So sheep and goat dairy is great. I like fermented foods as well, like sauerkraut, kimchi, great for the metabolism, great for fat loss. And then if we're talking about like supplements, there's different things. Coffee is a great fat burning. I call it, I put it in the supplement chapter, although it's a drink. The coffee, when it's medium, roasted and it's organic, it's loaded with chlorogenic acid, CGA, which is a powerful polyphenol that's great for fat loss, great for detoxing your liver. So I love that. And then green tea is also great when it's organic without the microplastics in the tea bag,

like a good brand. Great for fat loss, great for targeting belly fat, actually. The catacons and green tea help you do that. And then just one more thing here with supplements. There's a supplement that I talk about in chapter 11 called grains of paradise, which is a spice that you could buy organic grains of paradise. And you can just add it to your foods or take it in a supplement form. it helps your body produce brown adipose tissue, brown fat, which is fat that's loaded with mitochondria that help you burn more calories versus the white fat that's around your organs, your love handles, that's the metabolically inactive fat. So if we could increase brown fat, it's always a good thing for burning fat. And grains of paradise helps you do that. It's a really interesting supplement.

I do 125 to 150 grams of avocado every single day. That's like my number one staple food. Yeah, oh, man. Was I missing out. I got to tell you, man, it is literally like my number one staple every day. I got a question on seafood. And this is kind of mercury related and overdoing it perhaps. I'm a big salmon guy. I probably maybe have it too much. I'm like five to six days. And then I throw in a Chilean sea bass type or something like that. It's like a treat because I know you got to be careful with the mercury that or hal of it. But where does it come to the point where it's overdoing it or too much? And what's your thoughts on that in terms of? of the seafood intake.

Yeah, Dylan, you know, that's a good question because the bigger the fish, the more toxins, including mercury, it has. Right. The protocol that I, that I share is the smash acronym for seafood, which are going to be the best seafood to have that have the least amount of toxins. So the smash is salmon, which you mentioned, yeah, wild caught salmon, mackerel, anchovies, sardines, and herring. So that's the smash protocol.

If you could stick to those as the majority of the seafood you're eating, you'll get all the benefits of seafood without the toxicity of the heavy metal contamination. But look, if you're doing it once a month or so, having bigger fish once a month, not a big deal. Or if you're doing every week, it could accumulate your body for sure. And what you can do is you could take some binders. If you know you're going to have a bigger fish, you could take some binders about an hour before. Give you some glutathione as well and it could help you detoxify that before you absorb it. So let's say, for instance, somebody has sees they have a higher mercury content.

What's a recommendation for them to start to clean that up or get it out of their system? I know it takes a while. Is there a good natural route to go? Or what's your recommendation there? That's like a whole conversation in itself, bro. We could talk hours about that. Part of my story, you may not know this, but part of my story is I had mercury poisoning myself in 2018. From eight silver amalgam phillings destroyed me.

So first of all, testing mercury is very, very difficult. You could test through urine. You could test through blood. You could test through your hair. Let me backtrack. Hair is not accurate. Hair in general for testing metals is not an accurate measurement. It's always showing you what your body is getting rid of, not what's being stored. Yeah, it kind of gives you an idea if you're getting rid of a lot of heavy metals. You probably have a lot stored, but it's not accurate. Blood is only looking at acute exposure of mercury and other heavy metals, not chronic. So blood's not accurate. urine would be the best option and you need to use a challenging agent with that urine test to challenge the metals out. So doctor's data has a great test called 24-hour urine challenge test when you use

that with what's called a DMSA, which is a challenging agent to challenge the metals out, gives you a good idea of your toxin exposure. Now, if you have ever had silver amalgam fillings, like I did, if you've ever worn contact lenses in the same. 70s and 80s and or if your mom had silver amalgam fillings when she gave birth to you, you have a lot of mercury in your body. So I like using a health questionnaire for mercury versus testing because I know if they have any of those three things I mentioned, they have mercury. How do you get it out? That's a process. It takes years and months. It's not a seven-day cleanse. It's not a sauna session. It's not, oh my gosh, I'm not going to name this person, but

I sent this to my mentor, Dr. Daniel Pampa. Do you know Dr. Daniel Pampa? I know. I don't. I don't don't know I'm personally. I'm very aware of who he is. Yeah. I learned all this from him, the heavy metal stuff. He's the one who made me aware that I was mercury poisoning back in 2018. But there was, there's a really popular person in our space who posted on his Instagram and said, did you know, wild blueberries removes mercury from the brain? I know who you're talking about. And we don't want to hate on people. Some we don't know, not list them. But it makes me angry. And I sent it to Dr. Pompep because that is not true. There's not one study that shows that in human beings. It's a process. You got to open up downstream detox pathways. You have to clear the body of metals and then go to the

brain where the mercury is. And I would just recommend people check out Dr. Daniel Pompep if they want to learn more about the mercury detox, the mercury detox. Definitely. You know, you mentioned something earlier and I wanted to kick back to it real quick on the carb side. You mentioned green leafy vegetables as something. What are your go-to sources or recommended sources of carbs? Because I know people are going to wonder that because it's confusing, man, because there's a lot of carbohydrate options. So I really want to know your Ben's go-toes, you know, that you approve. Yeah, I mean, I would stay away. The ones that I don't recommend would be spinach, kale, those are higher in anti-nutrients, like oxalates. Yeah. Ors that's not necessarily a carb, but high in oxalates.

I like arugula is a great carbohydrate, great green leafy vegetable, great for the liver, great for detoxification as well. I like broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, zucchini. These are my go-to vegetables. On my higher carb days, I'll have white rice personally. I'm fine with that because I'm metabolically healthy. I'll have fruit. I'll have blueberries, not for the mercury removal, but I'll have blueberries.

I'll have great fruit. I'll have watermelon. I have a lot of fruit. So I like fruit in general on my higher carb days, but on the keto day, I like, I like the zucchini, the arugula, the broccoli, the cauliflower, those are going to be better options. What's your amount of carb intake on your higher carb days? You got 100 or where are you at? Man, I go like to 400 gram. You really?

Yeah, I feast it up. I really flexed out. And I'm really active on that day. I'll play basketball for a few hours. But yeah, I really have a lot of carbs. I go from zero carbs all week to 400 grams in a day and back to zero carbs the next day. And I'm metabolically flexible. I'm able to do that. I've done the work. And I want that for everybody to be able to do that. Okay, so why do you do that? How often do you do that? And does that affect your like, do you lower your fat and protein intake? Like, how do you accommodate that? I'm really curious. I really want to understand the reasoning and everything so people can grasp this and realize why it's even important to do this. I do it because I want to maintain metabolic flexibility. Okay.

If I stayed in carnivore or keto, I'm only burning fat. My body will forget how to burn carbs. I don't want that. So I do it for that reason, but also it prevents plateaus. It creates a change that my body has to adapt to. And you know this being a fitness guy. Every great personal trainer knows, hey, if we want this client to get amazing results, we got to continue to change the workout, right? At low rate, change the routine. They don't plateau. It's very similar. I call it metabolic confusion. So you prevents plateaus. It overcomes plateaus. It maintains metabolic flexibility. But a higher carb day, and I'm glad you brought this up, a higher carb day, is a lower fat day.

I have low fat, less than 40 grams of fat on that day. We don't want to increase carbs and have the fat high. That's a disaster. Right. So high at carb day, protein could be high. That's fine, but fat needs to be low in a higher carb day. Okay. That makes sense.

And this is what I love because, okay, I've been doing all this testing on myself and I get to these times and I'm wondering, why the heck is this a day where it's saying I'm burning, like my body's trying to burn all these carbs, but I'm not taking them in. And why do I feel like I'm way a little heavy today or I'm holding a little bit more water? And when I didn't change anything, why, why, why, why, why? Well, because I'm not adding a heavy carb day at all. And I'm doing all this training, all this output and not doing it. So if you were going to implement the heavy carb day, would you do the heavy carb day on a workout day or a non-workout day?

I would do it on a workout day. On a workout day. I do it on my basketball. I play a couple hours of basketball every Sunday. So I usually do it on Sundays personally. Okay. So we're looking at adding a lot more fruits. some rice. What else would we look at on the really high-spouse? Sweet potatoes, plantains. I love,

have you tried masa chips before, masa chips? No, I haven't. I think he would love masa. They're organic corn tortilla chips cooked in beef tallow. They're legit. So I have a lot of masa chips, but usually it's white rice and fruit on those days for me. A lot. Okay. So you're really slamming them home. All right. I am. Yeah. I know we're not really big on calories here, but are your calories kind of similar than on that day too. I mean, I guess if you're eating higher fat on certain days and lower, yeah, there's going to be a certain differentiation on your total caloric intake. Isn't there on those days where you've been monitoring it? I have no idea, honestly. Yeah, I don't even look at it. So there might be, I would guess that my calories are probably

higher on that day. I'm not fasting. I'm eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I'm feasting. So my calories are probably higher. I just don't know how much higher. Okay, then real quick, because I know some People are going to want to know this. You and I have had laughs about this, and I made comments that we laughed about. Let's do the real quick oatmeal thing here, because I don't want the oatmeal mafia to come after me. Good, I used to eat oatmeal. I know you did. Like, it was an everyday thing, and I'm talking a ton of it.

And people get so angry if you start saying that it's, you start breaking down the facts on it. And once I stopped taking so much, everything changed for the better for me. I know the glyphosate's obviously one big thing, but you know what someone's going to say, well, what if I get the non-GMO that doesn't have any glyphosate on it and everything? Every other excuse we can get. So what else? What are the other problems aside from the obvious, which we know with glyphosate, can even go on organic because of the spray over, but cover it for me real quick, if you would, before we go.

Yeah. You know, I actually love the taste of oatmeal. Me too. Yeah, I absolutely love it. It's one of my favorite foods to eat. I also love peanut butter. I love oatmeal with peanut butter. But oatmeal is not healthy for you.

Especially if you're not, if you're like 93% of Americans or metabolos are unhealthy, you have no business eating oatmeal right now. Right. Yeah, there's a glyphosate issue. But people are going to say, I eat organic, stainless steel cut oats. Well, all of that turns into sugar in your body. If you ever put on a continuous glucose monitor, ate oatmeal and look at your blood sugar levels, you're going to see this. It might not happen as fast as drinking a soda or drinking a soda. Snickers bar, but it happens over time. It turns into sugar in your body. It is not a health food.

For me, it's considered like a cheat meal. Like, I'll still have some organic non-GMO oats on that flex day I mentioned, but it's like to me it's kind of like a cheat meal. It's not something I'm having all the time. I just like the taste of it, right? But it also, but oatmeal also has phytic acid. It's an anti-nutrient that removes minerals from your body. And if you're having oatmeal every day. You're removing minerals from your body every day. Minerals are the main fuel for your mitochondria. It depletes your battery pack. So there's a lot of reasons why we don't want to eat oatmeal. If you're having it once a week or once a month and it's organic non-GMO and you're metabolically healthy, no big deal. But let's face it, that's not how most people eat oatmeal.

So if the oatmeal mafia wants to come after Dylan and I, that's fine. That's the way we feel. We need to give oatmeal the reputation deserves and that reputation is that it is not healthy. Exactly. Okay, good. We had to do that. So, dude, I can't tell you, I know you have to go. I've got a whole list of stuff in my head. I don't script, but like, hopefully at another time can cover, because I want to get into some cellular science, some autophagy, my topagy, how it relates to diet, all of this. I got a slew of things left to talk to you about. Round two, brother. We got to do it for sure, man. Besides appreciating this, man, I value it because I really, even selfish. for myself, learned a ton, and I know the audience is going to really appreciate this, man. And listen, I don't even know if you can get enough for your work. And it's, it's your work, and it's your spirit, and it's your care. And all of this effort, trust me when I tell you, I don't think you could hear it enough about how appreciative it is. Because even a guy like me that's

been studying this for 15 years, the more I realize that I don't know really a fraction of what's out there and I've turned to people like you, it helps me, too, to use my platform, to get you out, but to convey it also and learn from you and clean up my knowledge base, too. So, man, thank you for all of it. It's beyond appreciated. Thank you doing. I appreciate you. You're a great podcast host. I learned from you too. Dude, we're going to hang out in Austin very soon. We're going to be doing some more collaborations. We're going to be supporting each other. I am grateful for the conversation we had today. I was very much looking forward to it. And I look forward to developing our relationship, learning from you as well. You're very humble, knowledgeable guy. There's not much

Eagle involved with you and it's very different than a lot of people in our space. So I admire that bro and I appreciate your support. Absolutely, man. Dude, it was an honor and a pleasure. Now, everybody makes sure, literally, and I'm not just saying this to promote this, this book is gold. It really is. Metabolic freedom, check it out.

But Ben, what else can people do to follow you? I know you've got the keto camp. Where can they come find you? Give them everything and I'll link everything in the description for everything you've got going on. Yeah, thank you, Dylan. I love if your audience resonated with the message to go get Metabolic Freedom, it just came out a few days ago. And it's available on hardcover, which I, you know, Dylan went to Barnes & Noble, posted a nice video getting it at the Spark the Noble. I really appreciated that. It's available on Kindle and also Audible and Spotify. I narrated the Audible

on Spotify myself. And it's available everywhere worldwide. But if you go to Metabolicvue book.com. You could get a free course with the book. 12 lessons on the metabolism for free. There's no credit card I'm collecting and charging you later. It's completely free. And there's four interviews in that course with Dr. Jason Fung, Megan Ramos, Dr. Daniel Pampa, who we spoke about earlier, and Cynthia Thurlow. All that's for free when you go to Metabolic Freedombook.com. And if you want to learn more about me, my main website is benazadi.com. Awesome, man. And those are great people that you've talked to and collaborated with. I know Cynthia, she's awesome. And yeah, yeah, you

you've got really strong people backing you, bro, and we're all in your corner. So I appreciate it. Thank you. I hope everybody really, really loved and appreciated this one, which I'm sure they did. So that wraps up another one, everybody. Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jebeli and Benazotti, signing off.