The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #49 Featuring Michelle Chalfant! Finding your TRUE SELF! The Adult Chair Model: Tapping into the power inside of you to transform your life, Using triggers as gifts, Accountability and more!

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Episode #49 Featuring Michelle Chalfant!  A guide on FINDING YOUR TRUE SELF!  Michelle Chalfant, the author of the highly acclaimed book, "The Adult Chair," joins Dylan Gemelli to provide everyone her priceless insight on how to find your true self.  Michelle explains the premise of the adult chair concept that she created, discussing how to tap into the power we all have within us to transform our life.  She provides insight on how we can use our personal triggers as gifts and personal reflection to help us overcome as opposed to letting them work against us.  Dylan and Michelle both get vulnerable discussing how to use past experiences into growth and fuel for self improvement.  The discussion then shifts to how to break down complex situations that we often let become far bigger problems than they need to be.  There is an eye opening and hard truth talk about the importance of accountability as well as a deep dive into the power of vulnerability and authenticity.  This episode will prove to be HIGHLY IMPACTFUL, eye opening and provides hope and guidance on how to become the best YOU that YOU can be!  YOU DO NOT WANT TO MISS THIS EPISODE!!!     Check out Michelle's Homepage: https://theadultchair.com/   Follow Michelle on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themichellechalfant/   Follow the Michelle Chalfant show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-michelle-chalfant-show-life-from-the-adult-chair/id941317634   Today's episode is sponsored by TIMELINE   To PURCHASE MITOPURE visit Dylan's landing page and use code DYLAN to save 20% OFF!! https://shop.timeline.com/DYLAN _______________________________________________________________________________ Get the Apollo Neuro for $90 OFF!! USE CODE GEMELLI to save https://apolloneuro.com/gemelli     TONUM supplements for the MIND AND BODY!   USE CODE "DYLAN" to save!!  https://www.tonum.com/DYLAN     THE BREAKTHROUGH MIMIO HEALTH FASTING MIMETIC SUPPLEMENT!  20% OFF with code Gemelli  https://mimiohealth.sjv.io/c/6588260/3323599/30611     TRULY Increase Your NAD LEVELS with WONDERFEEL NMN: https://getwonderfeel.com/?utm_source=DylanGemelli&utm_medium=podcast     MESCREEN: The world's first and only at home mitochondrial efficiency test Save $100 with CODE   DYLAN   https://mescreen.com/cart/47561239626013:1?discount=&ref=DYLAN       HIRE DYLAN ON THE MINNECT APP HERE: expert.minnect.com/@DylanGemelli     Follow Dylan on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok @dylangemelli and PLEASE SUBSCRIBE and leave reviews!!   MAKE SURE TO GO TO DYLAN'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL for MORE video content!!    https://www.youtube.com/@DylanGemelliBiohacking Email Dylan for booking, collaborations and/or to apply for the Dylan Gemelli Podcast [e-mail] Visit Dylan's Homepage https://dylangemelli.com  

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Welcome back to the Dylan Jameli podcast. So today is a very, very, very happy day for me. I have one of the most exuberant and joyful people that I've ever had the pleasure of interviewing on my show today to present to you. I'm going to try to do her justice by my intro here. I can't say enough about here, but I'm going to go ahead and do my best. So she is a licensed therapist.

She's a holistic life coach. She's an author. And she's committed to helping people break free from limitations and discover their true selves, which we're going to talk a ton about today. She's the creator of the adult chair model. And the adult chair model combines simple psychology with grounded spirituality to inspire personal transformation. And she has an amazing podcast, the Michelle Shelfant,

live from the adult chair, 10 million downloads, actually more than 10 million downloads. So that tells you enough about how amazing that she is. She's got a new book we're going to talk about. And there's going to be a ton of information that we're going to go over that's going to help you become a better you. So my friends, welcome my guest today, Michelle Schelfon. Jeez, Dylan. I'm listening to you. I'm like, wow, that girl sounds pretty amazing.

When we hear our own bio, it's like, whoa, wow, okay. Yes. You know, I always try to give everybody their due. Sometimes I don't do my best, but it can be humbling when you hear it. I bet people do it for me. And I'm like, dude, you're exaggerating big time. But thank you. But, you know, when people see you that way and there's a reason why.

And I don't, one thing my viewers know and you know, I don't, I don't sugarcoat or exaggerate. just give it what it is. So you deserve all of that and then some. Thank you. I really appreciate you. Yeah, really appreciate you. Well, I appreciate your time. And I know that we're on a tight one today. We had a slight recording issue earlier. So, and I want to utilize all of this time with you. So I want to learn about you first because, you know, I think with all of us, and for most of us, especially when we have careers like you have or like I have something we saw or something that maybe occurred in our life and sometimes it's negative sometimes it's positive but there's some kind of scenario or situation that we really reflect back on that said okay that's what shaped me for what I'm doing today so

what was your either singular moment or moments that led up to lead you into this life that you've chosen to lead now such a great question I'd have to say it's interesting I don't remember ever having like this big spiritual awakening. I honestly remember being the little girl always having this feeling like I was here to do something and I didn't know what it was. Yep. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, I'm not sure what I'm here to do, but I'm supposed to be helping people in some way and I wasn't quite sure what that was. And even being in middle school and high school, I remember, you know, my friends and acquaintances would come up and say, hey, can you give me some advice on this or can you help me? So that led me to, of course, right on my path. And I

believe that people places things, events really are lined up so that we do become who we're here to become whatever that thing might be. So yeah. So for me, I always felt this internal drive to, I always had questions. I still do this to this day. I ask a lot of questions, which is probably why I enjoy podcasting because I love asking a lot of questions. And I go for the depth. I'm a Scorpio. I go deep. I'm like, I want to know, give me all the juice. Give me all the dirt. But anyway, kind of like you are sure. Yeah. So I've always felt this drive, though. Nothing magical happened. I just, it was in me. I feel like I was born with this desire to, and I still ask questions like, okay, what is this thing we call God universe? And then all that was, that was one question I've always had since a little girl, you know, the other side of the coin was. And how do I, how do we really transform our lives? You know, I don't like that I do this. How do I change it to this? How do I change it to this? that. So I realize looking back on my life path, how it really shaped me to become who I am today in so many ways. And I can get into a little bit of family stuff if you want, but we certainly don't have

to go there. So one of the things that I think is important, especially for someone that does the kind of work that you do is we do ask like the why, the how. And I'm a big person and getting into details. Like, I always ask questions. I think that the stigma that got put out there for a while was like, oh, if you're asking questions and you're questioning the science, you're this bad, evil person. And to me, it's the complete polar opposite. All of the people that figured out all the things we have, I don't know, from electricity

to astronomy, everything that comes science-wise, it's ask, ask, ask, learn and see what's changing because, look, my argument is if things didn't change, if things didn't change or we didn't question anything, then how would we have gone from VHS to CDs to, you know, to having MP3s to now streaming? You know, it's a continuous evolving of knowledge and question asking. So I think what I appreciate about you is that desire to ask and learn. And when you talk about finding true self and who am I, it sounds so basic or so, I mean, kind of to some probably ridiculous. But I, like, I know that I've taken the time to do that. And I'm curious your thoughts.

When you kind of hit that part where you, it clicks where you're like, I think I know who I am. What does that feel like and what does it take to get there? I understand it's different for each person, but in your world, so to speak, what does it take to get there? And what does it feel like when it finally starts to resonate? That's a great question. I just got to say. Thank you. First of all, I don't think we ever get there.

And if we got there, I think we would die. I mean, I think that's the end of the journey for us. us, honestly. I think that we are here to continue to evolve and continue to have an understanding an idea of who we are as we evolve. And every time we get to that new level, it's like, oh, wait, this is who I think I am. And then guess what? We keep expanding and growing. Then we reach a new level and then a new level. So that's the first part. That's the way I want to answer that question. Honestly, how did I know that I, and again, I'm going to just, if I can share this, I've gone to from a life of, you know, Italian family, Rochester, New York, and meshed all of this kind of thing.

No boundaries, alcoholism. In my extended family, we lived all together. That's what Italians do. And people that are very ethnic in a big lakehouse every summer. It was beautiful and fun, but also dysfunctional and traumatic in many ways. But that caused me to put a lot of masks over myself. Over my, and the masks that we wear create this false self. And that's who we think we are. So we go through life. Honestly, I was somewhat miserable, if not a lot miserable, suffering with functional depression and anxiety, codependency big time.

I mean, if you Google or put Wikipedia in what is codependency, there is Michelle Schelfont, right? But I'm a recovered codependent, God bless, but I keep, again, that's still a journey. It still pops up once in a while. But anyway, what I noticed was, in doing my own work, and I love doing my personal work, I am challenged by it and I freaking love it because there's that feeling you get on the other side of it. And how do I know,

like, well, how do we know when we've reached this level? And again, it's always a new level. It doesn't end. How do we know, though, that we've reached this level of living more in our true self than in our false self? Let's face it. Nobody's 100% in their true self. No. Or we'd be in the graveyard. I mean, it's just just the end of the line for us, right? I knew because I started to become more comfortable in my own skin. My self-talk went way down.

Boundaries. This is interesting. I was able to start setting healthier boundaries. Because all of these things are like these, it's a culmination of learning how to love yourself, accept yourself for who you are, not needing to change, not needing to be anybody else. And when you do that, it's like, I think I'm okay in this costume that I'm wearing, this human suit, if you will. That's all it is. And when we can look in the mirror and go, I think I'm okay. Or go out to a networking thing or a party or an event or just be in public at the grocery store. And you're walking to the store and you actually are comfortable in your own skin. To me, that tells me that's a level that you've reached of understanding and experiencing your true self.

Yeah. I love that so much. You know, there's several things that you brought up there that I want to go into because I feel like a lot of the things that hold people back from getting to where you're talking is accountability and looking in the mirror and saying you screwed up. But it's okay. Take the accountability and now you know and fix it. But a lot of people and I feel like this is so much more prevalent and it's kind of like media driven and it's kind of almost becoming like culturally driven in our society. now where everybody's got a crutch or an excuse that's easy to fall back on. Well, it's because she was a woman or well, it's because they're this race or well, it's because they're this age or they're, it's always something. And I am, I'm not old by any stretch of the imagination, but I have an

old school mentality and way of thinking. And I feel like the more accountable you are and the more when you brought up that made me like go back and remember when my life changed was stop the self-talk and stop talking about. yourself so much and start talking about others. Relate with others. Give them examples of your whatever it is that falls into the conversation. But absorb what other people are saying. Think about others. Create a real conversation. A conversation is between two people, not one, right? Yeah. So do you feel like that's a prevalent problem for a lot of people that they have to overcome then, that challenge of not being so into yourself and not even realizing

it. Yeah, you mentioned two great points. You also talked about that and her critic, that voice in your head, but also we need to learn how to become what I call it, it's called what I call it is masterful listening. Yes. And we don't do that well as humans. We are not trained. That's what my book, The Adult Chair, is all about. This is the manual that we should have had when we were growing up. And unfortunately, our parents did not have it. So how in the world are we supposed to know how to live as healthy functioning adults. How are we supposed to know things like, hey, when you're speaking, do you notice you're out of balance? Yeah. Do you notice you're talking a lot about yourself? Well, hey, who's, what part of you is pushing you to do that? There's a part of you that feels

unsafe, insecure. I don't know. It could be a bazillion things, honestly, that's pushing you to not listen because it's uncomfortable being in your body and not sharing your, what's going on with you. So yeah. So I believe, and we could talk so much about, I could do a whole show just, I have done shows just on listening. You know, because if I say to you, hey, Dylan, if I just called you in the phone, said, hey, oh my God, I'm having a really, really bad day, blah, blah, blah, blah, immediately what humans typically do is we want to fix it. So then we jump in and go, well, what do you mean you having a bad day? Your book came out this week. Like, everything should be great. Like, what do you mean you have? It doesn't make sense. What humans need?

in order to experience that true self part that we just talked about, is to feel heard, listened to. And your job as a listener is to simply hold space and be so energetically present, not physically present and you're thinking about what you're going to have for dinner or where you're going to go in an hour, but be with me in what I'm going through so that I can have that space to learn

and expand out a little bit more into who I am. That's that true self. We aren't good at this. And we got to learn how to do this better. We've got to learn how to hold space and be there for other humans and let them be whomever that they want to be, need to be, and listen really well in the present moment with them. I agree. I think part of the thing, too, I mean, you do what you do and you're great at it.

So that's a totally separate thing. But I think maybe you could touch on this on having a podcast. I think the podcasts that resonate are the ones where the conversation, there's a lead in, but there's a good purpose for it and there's not a dominance. There's a real desire to know and to learn. And I like to give some examples when I can or give an opinion when I can and then let you just run with it and expounding it and like, I want to listen. I want to learn and I want to see sometimes your analysis of what I'm saying. I had a psychologist on the other day and it turned into him analyzing me half the time. And we were laughing

because he was having such a good time with it. I'm like, hey man, like this is about you. It's not about me. I'm not trying to make it about me, but those are fun. And I think that when you really take something like this as serious as you and I do, you can see how communication is really kind of supposed to be because it's, it's supposed to have a benefit for everybody, you know? It's supposed to make everybody feel good, feel heard, and feel like you're like,

you don't have to gain something monetarily from everything. you gain knowledge or you gain joy or happiness or comfort or whatever. But everybody gains something out of it. And even if it's just a smile, it's worth the time. Do you not feel that as humans we're looking for connection? Oh, yeah. I think everybody. That's it. That's why we want to get better at listening.

Because when you listen well and you don't cut people off, fix them, all those things, that conversation starts to drop deeper. deeper, deeper, right? That's true connection. We want to be curious with other people. We want to get in there. Like, get in there. Tell me more. Let's go deeper. Tell me more. Right. I think if you do like a comparison to just an everyday thing. So let's say I'm a big, well, I am a big sports fan. I can't be a big fan of anything. If I don't sit there and watch and listen to what's going on, what, you know, analyze what's, what's happening during the game. So I'm paying attention. I'm listening and I'm watching. It's not about Dylan, it's about what's going on on the screen. So, you know, if you compare that to a conversation,

if I'm not listening to you and engaging with you, there's not going to be any real reciprocation on either end. It's going to either get awkward or it's going to go nowhere, you know? And it's not good for either person to feel that way. No. But I don't, again, I don't think we know how to do that well. Because we're very, we're uncomfortable with our own emotions. And what's happening is when we're listening to somebody, again, it could be that when you're talking about what you're doing and you've got a big podcast and you're doing your thing, if I'm not comfortable in my own skin, that's going to cause me to have that part of me rise up and then want to talk about my show. And I want to either be alongside you or outdo you or it's a competition.

When we're comfortable in our own skin and I'm connected to who I really am, I'm going to celebrate you. And I don't need to talk about me. That's how we know there's been a shift in the ego. That's how we know. And ego's not bad. As I say that word, some people go, oh, the ego. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Ego's not bad.

Ego's not bad. But ego needs to not drive the car. Ego needs to sit in the back seat. Michelle and Dylan, you know, our, what I call our adult selves, need to drive the car and be aware of the ego. We want to have an aware ego and not have an unawareness around the ego or, or, else it does drive the car. We don't want it to drive us. We don't want it to be the one that's making decisions for us and choices for us as we move forward in life. Everything in life is about balance,

no matter what we do. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's the right amount of sleep, whether it's the right amount of a vitamin we're taking or whatever. Everything has to have a balance. So I mean, for me, it's like, look, am I confident in my capabilities? Yes. Did I used to be cocky, yes, am I now? I'm the polar opposite because I know that gets you nowhere and it doesn't ever allow you to excel further yourself, be successful or resonate with other people. But if you exude a humble and honest confidence in what you're doing, yes. So is a little bit of ego good? Yes, is too much good? Absolutely not. It's horrible. And so I guess when you speak with people, there should be like a confidence in yourself like you're saying and the conversation should flow

easily. But I think one thing I'm curious that I want your opinion on too is it seems like as time has gone on, everybody relies on either behind a keyboard, a text message. You can buy a house via text anymore. I make people get on the phone with me and talk to me. Some of these younger generations too, if you call them or leave them a voicemail, they're like, what the fuck? Like, what is this?

And I, you know, I learned to go. up to the girl and ask her out myself, not hide behind a keyboard or have somebody else go do me. I learned when I got in trouble, your ass is going to the coach and telling them in person what you did. I'm not doing it for you. And so I'm fearless at that, you know, as I've gotten I am literally fearless. Every human to me is the same. I am not scared to approach anybody, talk to anybody. And nobody should be to come to me. Yeah. You know, so what do you think about that? Do you think that's a lot of it too is we have like easy outs and crutches now to communicate and that I'm just kind of dependent on that.

I'm sure you get negative comments sometimes. Yeah. I mean. And guess what? Those people are behind a keyboard. Exactly. Like, come and talk to me about it and understand why I said what I said or did what I did or hosted whatever that offended you.

You know what? Here's the thing. I love talking about triggers. It's one of my favorite things to talk about. I say triggers are a gift. Triggers are a gift. And I can explain why. Yes.

We're triggered as humans again. And we don't know what to do with them. then we take it out on others. Funny thing, I've had my husband on my podcast a few times, actually. And it makes me giggle when I read some of the comments when they come in after the shows, but specifically when he's on, the most recent one we did. I don't remember what it was maybe a year ago. But people commented and said things like this in the same social post on Instagram or Facebook or even an email. Oh my God, I loved hearing from Graham. It's so great to have him on all the love for Graham and myself. be none. Then I had other, a few, not many, but a few people then came in and said, I don't like

how Graham talked over you the whole time. That was horrible. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. More emails came in. I don't like that you, Michelle, spoke over Graham. I'm laughing. I'm reading through them. I thought, wow, isn't that interesting? One reality happened. One thing happened out there, outside of self, but because of my beliefs, think about all the people that listen to you, to me, everybody has filters. What is a filter? Think about you're wearing glasses right now, right? Everybody has these glasses that we see the world through. The glasses are made up of our unconscious beliefs that were formed before we were six years old. That's why Graham and I can be on a show, We laughed the whole time.

We made fun of each other. We taught things. It was beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. People heard he talked over me. Other people heard I talked over him. And other people thought it was the greatest thing on the planet.

How is that possible? What's real? It's all real based on the person that's watching or listening based on their wounding, their filters. I have it too. I'm not saying I don't have that stuff. Sure. That's why I do trigger work. That's part.

I mean, when I think about. How I, when I think about my journey, I mean, I was wounded. Holy moly. Walking around functional depression, I was getting high all the time. In my teens and 20s, I was drinking like six nights a week. I mean, it was bad. And what turned me around was taking the focus not out here and blaming you and everyone else for my life because I was really good at that. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Been there. You know, I'm very good at that. And I am drinking because of my child or I'm drinking because of my child or I'm drinking because this guy did this to me or I'm drinking because of that, that, and the other thing, it's all outside of me. When I started to change quickly and really my whole life turned around was when I took that finger that was pointing out there and I was stuck in the victim seat that I didn't even see by the way and I turned it around and pointed it back at myself, not to judge myself

or to shame myself, but I did it with curiosity because I said to myself, hold on a second, I'm the common denominator in everything, in every relationship and every job I have and every hobby that I have is I'm taking me with me wherever I go. I got to look at what's going on in here. I had emotional dysregulation. I was angry all that. I mean, it was like, I look at myself in my teens and my 20s and people that know me will go, really? You were that? Yes. I remember taking the phone way back when I was probably in my early 20s. I was so pissed at a boyfriend. I threw, this is before. This is before cell phones. I took the phone, the house phone. A lot of people are like, what's a house phone? I tell my kids, I'm like, you guys have no idea. You can't even imagine. We used to have house phones.

Anyway, I took that damn house phone and I watched it across the room, put a hole in the wall. Like, I used to get so angry at different things, right? The emotionally dysregulated. Yes. Yes. I don't do that anymore. I haven't done that in, I don't even know, 30 a year. I just don't do that. That's not how I lived because I learned how to work my triggers. That is a huge of the book. I have a whole section on what a trigger is, how you work a trigger, and why it's important that we work our triggers, and how it helps you to find your true self, which I call the adult chair. But that's the power of triggers. Who teaches us this? Nobody. Did your teachers, did your parents? No. It needs to be learned because we're walking around every human, like computers,

with faulty programming. Those are the limiting beliefs or the wounding that we had from childhood. But can you believe this still in? I don't know if you know this or not. From the age of zero to six is when this is how we learn how to be adults. We're walking around with a roadmap built. By the time we're seven, that roadmap is built. You're making choices in your life, decisions.

You're picking your partner. You're picking your jobs. All of this based on a roadmap that was built in, and handed to you in think about how old you were when you were seven or excuse me think about how what year it was everybody listening what year was it when you were seven that's the roadmap that you're driving your car on today which is you that's your life isn't it crazy oh man 1989 so yeah you know what though i i i totally understand that and i believe it and i think that the examples that are set for you and that you're the circumstances that you're putting at the young age

shape you forever in a lot of circumstances of course you can overcome some of those things are changed but yes I totally totally see what you mean and where you're coming from and it's funny how you talked about mass you talked about changing and how this all correlates I I always tell my wife because she met me post prison right and and I tell her if you would have seen me before you would you would have never even wanted to know this guy. And you know the funny thing is, Michelle, when I think about it, I ask myself, why did you feel the need to do all of these things when it's not who you were? And I can think back and although there was a lot of drug-induced moments, I can still remember never feeling good

about any of the stuff that I could tell you a story now. We'd laugh and go, oh, that's awesome and stuff. But then I'd tell you the misery that followed it. And I asked myself this question, why? Because you were miserable and you beat yourself up. You knew because I'm a very spiritual God first person and people that listen know that. But I was doing the polar opposite and knew it and why. And you know what? It was always what I figured out as I got closer to God. It's it's a form of idolatry. And when I say that it's you're worrying about everybody else's thoughts, how they see you, how you view you. And I was basically my idols were my impressions upon other people, fancy clothes, badass cars, a lot of money. And it's, I'm not saying I don't want all that stuff now, but it doesn't

make me shape me or do anything to me on who I am whatsoever. Do I want a nice car? Yeah. Do I have one? I think it's pretty sweet. But does it make me who I am? Do I have I realized over time that I'll be Dylan regardless? Yeah. Have I gotten everything taken from me? Yeah. I mean, I had to start my life from scratch. So I think that we oftentimes worry so much about others, thoughts and impressions that it doesn't allow us to be who we really are, even if we want to be. Yeah. And also when I hear this, And I've heard this for, gosh, I've been doing the work I do for over 20 years, over 20 years. And when people look back on themselves and they judge, I'm not saying you're judging, but people do judge. Yeah.

You know, why did I do that? Why did I marry that person? Why did I make these choices? Why was I drinking? Why was I whatever? We really are doing the best we can with what we have in the moment. Yeah. In the moment.

Like Michelle looking back on younger self that threw the phone across the room, the Michelle I am today is like, what the hell? Like that's great. No, but I also, if I really look back and feel her, not just mentally what I call chin up from the mind, but feel in the body. What was going on with her? She was in pain. Yeah. Yeah. That ain't.

It wasn't anger. Expressing because of the pain that was underneath it. Mm-hmm. Right? Nobody, there were no boundaries in my house. It was an unsafe place because of my uncle and all this. It was like there was anger. So it's okay.

So, yeah, I don't, when people have asked me, oh, why did I make that mistake? You know, I remember speaking with a woman, and she had an abortion when she was 15, and she was 45, she had four kids, she was married and all this. She was so stuck because of that. She could not forgive herself. She could not move on. She judged the crap out of that 15-year-old little her. I'm not pro or con abortion. That's not what it's about.

What I was about was that the fact that she's carrying that with her. and was not able to move on. Yeah. And she's sitting here at 45 years old, 30 years later, hysterically crying. And I said, okay, and judging the hell out of that little girl that was 15. So anyway, that's a whole other story. But I hear people that judge themselves so hard about their past. And I'm like, for God's sake, we're doing the best we can in the moment.

But the person we are today to look back is like, well, yeah, I can see what was going on then. Yeah. And when we're in the middle of it, you didn't know. know what you were doing. I didn't know what I. We're doing the best we can. The key, I think, you tell me, because you're the professional here and I'm just the dude. But I think the key and what I found to be the most successful for me is using that as as a fuel and teaching. So reflecting on it and saying, okay, I know I never want to be that again, but I also know what I gained from it and where I am now. And one of the things for me spiritually that I learned because I would do this,

everything you're talking about, I would just shame myself for going to prison and ruining everything that I had and the way I was raised, embarrassing my family, embarrassing myself. And I, you know, when you do that and you go into confession like for me and you say, and you give your apologies and you ask for your graces, you're supposed to let it go. Because if you don't, that's like you spitting in the face of God saying, well, I guess you're not forgiving me, right? So if you can take every negative, and this sounds cliche, and when I say flip it into a positive, I say flip it into like fuel and knowledge and use that to shape who you are and realize, look, and I tell everybody this, I got what I deserved. I didn't realize it

at the time. I needed it. And while I don't recommend that happening to people, we have our own free will. And if we take our free will and misuse it, it could lead us on the wrong path. And to correct that path, we may have to go through a negative experience to fix the mistake that we made. And so I used that and I realized I wouldn't have met my wife. I wouldn't be talking to you right now because I wouldn't be doing this. So instead of me going, man, I wish I would have done that different. I go, you know what? That was good because now I'm a totally different driven individual with a different mindset and a different career and a different focus. I wouldn't trade my history for anything. And I don't look back and say, oh, my God, that's so embarrassing anymore. I used to. Why did I do that?

That was the worst thing. Judge, judge, judge, shame, shame. No way. Because I, again, it's about, that's the adult chair. Like, this is the book. This is all about this. It's like, how do you shift your perspective on that? It's not to say, I'm saying, forget it. I'm just not going to think about it anymore. That's not it. Right. Right. Right. What I sat and said to myself was, this is what I teach people. was like, what did you learn from that experience? How did it change you? How did you grow? So we shift out of that victim, like, why did this happen to me?

Why did this happen to me? You'll be asking yourself that question until the day you die. That's victimy. Instead of asking, what did I learn from this experience? How is this experience shaping who I am or how did it shape me? Yeah. I would not trade my history. I can tell you what.

I can smell codependency a mile away now because I can smell that. I know depression. I know anxiety. I know love addiction, love avoidance, all of it. Like I know this shit because I have walked the walk. Like I have walked the walk. I don't bypass things. I go straight into them and I learn from them and I grow from them.

And I really believe that's why my soul's here. My soul's like, you're going to go through this. They want you to learn. I want you to grow and then turn around and teach other people how to move through it too. Because Earth is a hard place to live. Right. I understand. I just, I love, I'm listening. I love your delivery and I love the conversation because I feel like we think so alike in so many ways. It's so nice. You know what? Okay. So I'm getting so much out of this, but I want to focus on your book a little bit because we keep referencing it. But I want to kind of dig into several

different aspects of it. One, let's just summarize the main, because we're kind of getting around different topics of it. Just summarize exactly what it is and who it's meant for. You know, who is this meant for and why? So this book is meant for every human. That's where I was going. No joke. This is the manual that we all should have had. In some ways, I think this is not a true religious Bible, but it's the psychological Bible that we should have all had. when we were growing up. And we should have had, it's too bad our parents didn't know most of this. Now, some parents know some of what's in here, but how in the world are we supposed to learn this stuff if we weren't taught it or modeled it? So the book is broken up in two parts.

So the adult chair model really teaches us who we are and how we got this way and how to become the healthiest adult self that we can become. So it's broken up into three chairs or three phases of life. We've got the child, which is zero to six. Like we're just talking. about adolescent or the teenage years, which is anywhere from six to 24. So there's pre-adolescence all the way up to post. Then we have the adult. So the adult chair goes from 25 and older. It's when the prefrontal cortex comes online. But we learn various things at every stage in life. Let me just give you a couple examples. For example, when we're in the first chair, which is the child chair, number one, that roadmap is being built. We've already talked about that. So every

experience that you see witness, not that we're taught. Let's say. face it, if my father ignores me because he's an alcoholic when I'm when I'm a child, he's not telling me or let's let's say like this, if my father is unsafe because he's an alcoholic and he gets really loud, it makes me scared or he's abusive physically in some way, I'm going to learn how to be small and quiet because it's not safe to be fully out loud, right? That's, these are the kinds of things that go on a roadmap. So we might then put on the roadmap unconsciously. I want everyone to hear. We don't consciously say, okay, I'm never going to be. I need to be, I'm never going to be seen because it's unsafe. It just falls onto that unconscious map.

So that's the big thing that happens zero to six. Roadmap, we learn all about emotions. How do we feel emotions? Are emotions safe to be felt? Are you my brother going to make fun of me? When I have emotions, are my parents going to shame me when I have emotions? If I'm crying, do I get called a cry baby? Or does my, do my parents embrace me and go, baby, what's going on? I want to hear all about it. So you see, again, how we are met when we're going through this phase, everything gets put on the roadmap. Oh, emotions are safe. Great. I can feel those then when I'm an adult. So we learn about emotions. We learn about intimacy. Think about holding a little baby, vulnerability. Right. Think about a little kid in a restaurant falling down, screaming and crying. They don't give a shit. They're like, yeah, I'm going to be vulnerable. But if you get spanked if you're vulnerable, if you get yelled that, if you get shamed, you learn, stay in line. Be perfect. Yeah.

So when we look at adults that are perfectionistic, let's say, people that have to be perfect controlling all of those things, I look at the roadmap. I go, huh, wonder what happened back then. See, it all links together. It all links together. So anyway, those are some of the things I have it all outlined in the book. I go into deep detail. This is a really fun book. I just read the audible version a month or so ago. It was so fun. I thought there's so many great examples of clients that I've had. And it really takes you on this transformational journey of self. You can read the book. There are examples. There are exercises in the book that walk you through each phase. And you'll learn, oh, wait, what did I do with emotions? What did I do with spontaneity? With passion, with purpose, all these things. That's phase one, chair one, the child chair. Then we go into the adolescent chair.

During the adolescent phases where we learn all about who we think we are, how do we fit in? This is really the building out. This is when the ego comes online more and more and more. Again, we're born with the ego, but it becomes more dominant as we grow. And by the time we're six or seven, the ego is here to separate us from the oneness self. It gives us an individual identity. It helps us to be Michelle, you're Dylan, okay, and helps us to build out an identity. The problem is with the ego, it doesn't know our true self.

We're born with a pure essence of self, the true self. The ego covers it up. It doesn't know any better because the ego is trying to get us to fit in to our tribe, to our family, to our friend group, to our community, to our church group. to our play group, whatever it is. So, so if you, Dylan, are crying and your little boy, and you get made fun of by your peers, you're going to stop crying. Like, no more of that, you will never cry again.

Do not show emotions, that's unsafe. So the ego's building out this framework of who you need to be in this world in order to stay safe, in order to fit in, and in order to be loved. So the ego is, again, trying to navigate the world, only living in the future in the past, but trying to navigate and build out masks and a framework so you can stay included and loved in the world. So this is where things like codependency are formed. This is where I learned my mother has nobody because my father is an identical twin. He's with his twin all the time. I need

as a six-year-old to take care of my mother. That's what I learned. That was built out during that ego phase. So I became very codependent. That's what I saw and observed. Doesn't everybody getting everyone else's business? Isn't everybody else enmeshed? This is where we learn about people pleasing. The blamer, the victim, the narcissist, the addictions. Everything is built here. The framework is all built here and mapped out here. It just continues on from that zero to six phase. Then we go into the adult chair. So in our adult, and again, I don't want to anyone think the adolescent or the ego is bad. It's not. It's trying to so hard to keep us alive, safe and alive, Right. So the adult chair is when if we had, there's the big if parents that were able to model for us what healthy adults do, apologize, feel their emotions, listen. We talked about listening earlier. I'm going to listen well. I'm going to hold space for you as my child. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to encourage you. It's not like I'm sitting in low disposition meditating every day by any means. It's strong. It's boundary to live there. We are able to move into that chair around the

of 25 when that prefrontal cortex comes online. So we take everything from the child and the adolescent and it all comes together around that age and we become adults. A problem is we didn't have these parents that were healthy functioning adults. We continue to grow physically on the outside. Right. But on the inside, I'm making choices. Here's the thing that's crazy that are from the average emotional age of a 12 year old. That's the ego age. That's the adolescent chair age. So Yeah, so think about it. So when I was thinking about drinking alcohol when I was 17, that would sound like a great idea. Why wouldn't I do that? I'd feel uncomfortable. I have anxiety. I didn't even know it was anxiety back then, by the way. I knew something felt wrong inside that Loud inner critic. So I'm just going to drink alcohol. That sounds like a great idea. That's why when we're adults now, where do you think the ideas come from when we have thoughts of let me go ahead and do drugs? Let me drink alcohol. Let me have a whole entire. cake or chocolate cake when I'm trying to get healthy and not eat sugar, let me go ahead and not work out because I just don't feel like it and I'd rather just lay home and watch TV.

It's like, those ideas, they're not coming from your healthy adult self. No, no, no, right? No. So anyway, that's the, those are the three chairs. So the part one of the book walks you as the reader through your own really childhood, adolescent, and adult. And it's really, honestly, it's not scary. It's so fun. Again, I just read the book. I go, this is really fun. I love it. And you do exercises throughout as a way to discover yourself even more. It's really about helping people live and discover more of their true self. So it's this whole uncovering process. Part two of the book, we have the five pillars. So the pillars are the how-to. So if again, you missed how it on things like, oh gosh, I don't, I mean so many of my clients over the years were like, what emotions. I don't feel emotions. What do you mean?

So I thought about what are the things that most people that I taught for 25 years are working with clients individually. These are the five pillars. I own my reality, meaning I take responsibility for my life. I feel my emotions. I live with self-compassion. I own and manage my triggers. And I set healthy boundaries.

Five things. I walk you through in the book, how to do every single one of them. So you can strengthen them and strengthen yourself as your own. Again, so you can live in your own adult chair, but really your own healthiest adult self. So that's the book in a little tiny nutshell. That's really, really, really intricate, but still it makes so much sense and the way that it's so dialed in and structured and sound.

And I hope because there's like a stigma, I think amongst people when it's like trying to address personal issues, mental issues, whatever you want to call it. And I hope that people understand that things like this are, there's nothing. like that going on at all. In fact, it's a huge benefit and it will only help to change your life. If you just, it's not like, I mean, for some people, yeah, I could see them having to spend more time than others on this, but it's not, I think if you read and understand and interpret and let it sink in and then actually make the efforts, it's not, wow, this is the most difficult thing in the world thing if you just listen and let it happen. It's not difficult at all. And the way that I have always taught, and I didn't mean to do this, but people have reflected this for, gosh, I've been on stages for like, like 10 years. So 10 years, let's say. People say I break everything down. I simplify everything. It's just how I think. So the book is very much broken down. Again, it's a really fun read. When you read

through some of the client experiences, it's like, that's me. That's not me. And then again, the exercises in the book, each section has exercises so you can walk through. Let me tell you this. I've never met a human in my entire life that does not have stuff to work on. Everybody does. Now, not everybody owns it and talks about it. That's right. Right. And the good news now is that it's kind of hip and cool now to have a coach or a therapist or something, you know, oh yeah, I go see my coach twice a week or my therapist. Thank God. Keep going. Being human is hard. Like we need another human to listen, to guide, to direct when we need it. So no, there's nothing wrong with anybody. God, everybody, nobody lands in their adult chair at 25. Let's face it. We've all got stuff. Some people. People have more stuff than others, but we've all got stuff. And knowing that I walk through it, I know you've gone through this. And I don't want to sit here for a minute and have anybody think, oh, yes, I'm in my

adult chair every day all day. I'm not. I'm not perfect. And this is not going for perfection. This is going for the healthiest adult you that you can become. And like I said, it's levels. So you don't compare yourself to anybody. There's none of that.

It's just looking at yourself and, yeah, and celebrating you. Like, it's a really fun experience. I don't know. Maybe that's just how I think. I don't know, Dylan. What do you think about this? Sometimes I'll throw out wisdom things, but this is something I just gain from listening to you right now. So tell me what you think about this. I feel that complex situations are only complex when you try to take it all at once. So when you break something down like you do and you take it into segments or small things at a time and work on them, you find that the complexities become rather easy. You just have to take it in stride. And this is what I encounter with a lot of businesses that I go into, repair when they bring me in to fix them and I run into owners that are, it's not that they're bad

owners, that they have 800 ideas and they skip from one to the one to the one and they never actually fulfill them and then they kept too much on their plate and then it gets complex as opposed to take in a situation or scenario and going, okay, this whole big thing. So I'll take like me buying a new house right now, I get this long sheet of requirements and you look at and you're like, oh my gosh, your initial reactions, oh my gosh, like how am I ever going to do this? And see me at this point I'm like okay well shit I mean look one two three boom I can do that in 10 minutes here I'll tackle these when I'm done but if you look at a situation a book uh listen to somebody like yourself teach you go oh my gosh that's a million things or you go okay let's kind of read about the triggers

right now okay what you know and let's focus on that right now and fake oh shit that's not so bad okay what's next right it's so the way that I have broken everything down and I get this again I get it reflected. I just taught a whole boundary chorus and people were like, oh my God, this sounds so, I said, you just have to know how to do it. And I'm not someone that has not walked the walk. I have walked this walk. I have looked at things like triggers and boundaries and filling your motions inside out and sideways. I've looked at it. I've taught it for years. And it's like, how do we do this?

It doesn't have to be difficult. No. It does not have to be difficult. And you're right. So if you want to learn about triggers, open up to the trigger chapter. up to the trigger chapter. And there are seven steps I think I have in there on how you learn how to work with your triggers. Again, that was a game changer for me because our triggers are unknown, unconscious beliefs that we have about ourselves. And that's where people have a huge miss on triggers, right? I've worked with a lot of people, even couples that come in and they'll say, like I remember I'm working with this one guy. He goes, if you could make my wife stop saying that shit to me, I will not get so angry. And I'm like, okay, she's irritating me the way she keeps

talking to me like that. And I said, this is your stuff. Again, it's not to say we don't need a boundary with your wife if she really is being irritating. But this is a question I get all the time. They go, people will ask me, how do I know if I'm just angry or irritated or if it's a true trigger and there's a belief in me that's rising up? Because a trigger is when a belief inside of us rises up and presents itself. And it could be, I'm unlovable. I hate myself. I don't matter. I'm good enough. All those things. We don't want to feel those. So as the trigger, the belief that the trigger has pulled up is sitting right in front of you, you have an opportunity to look at it, work with it, or call someone else and say, Dylan, can you believe so-and-so said that to me?

They're such assholes. And guess what happens? That trigger, that belief sitting right there in front of me that I could have worked on starts falling back down to the uncons. conscious mind. So until it comes up again, right? But how do you know if it's a trigger of its anger? Right. The way you know is if you're still carrying it with you after an hour. Got it. Yep. I was going to say. If somebody cuts you off in the parking lot at the grocery store and you're waiting on a spot and some jerk comes in and pulls into the spot, I'm going to get irritated. I might be angry. Whatever. But in an hour, am I still going to be talking about it. Right. If I am, that's a trigger. That's something to look at.

And again, I go in the book like exactly how do, what would I say to myself? How do I work with the trigger? It's really simple. It's not that complicated, but you got to do it. You got to look at it. And then that thing that keeps rising up, it starts to not rise up because it's not there anymore. Yeah.

And guess what? Emotional regulation happens. Life becomes more peaceful. There's more ease in your life. You know what to do and you're triggered. It's just, to me, my life feels so much easier now. than it ever has and it continues to get easier is it keep practicing all the stuff that's in the book. I think too if you just, so it's kind of like with your faith and it's supposed to be,

you're supposed to forgive people no matter what they do, spit in your face, do all of this stuff. And you carry it and you carry it and then you realize, man, okay, I'm just going to try this. And one day I just said, you know what, I'm going to give it to you today, God, and I'm going to just do what you tell me. I'm just going to see what happens. I'm just going to try. And I tell you what, it was some of the biggest relief sense because I was just able to let something go. in my mind, I'm like, does this really matter? Does this really affect me day to day?

Does this make a difference when I wake up in the morning? Does it, what, what, what is my anger or my wanting to hold this grudge? What is it doing for me beneficial? So I asked myself this. And I sat there and I sat there and I'm going, uh, and then what negative is it doing? Because you know, like in my field, stress and strain is going to increase inflammation. It's going to rise cortisol. all. It's going to throw up hormones. It's going to lose sleep. It's going to. So I'm doing.

So, okay, if it's not doing anything good, what negative is it doing? And then you start making the list and it's like, uh, okay. And it's also costing me time and money because I'm wasting time thinking about this when I could be working or productive or spending that doing something fun. So I think if you ever actually break something down conceptually and not emotionally, you know what I mean like with real fact as opposed to I'm so pissed I think and the way that you do it where you give these examples and make it so easy I think then most rational people will go well shit and then they'll take a look in the mirror and fix it you know so I love your approach and I love your methodology and you're thinking I wish more people did it it's something that's maybe complex

but can be made very simple if it's done right you know totally and I love you that's such a great example. I love that you took time, like you were saying, and you have to take a little bit of time and break it down and take a look at it. We just get angry and we carry it around. Yeah. Forgiveness, it takes some exploring, like, what's going on? Like, how to let this go? All those things. Something I used to do when I had an office when I lived in Nashville, I had clients that would come in. And when they would sit and talk about a story, you know, well, so-and-so did this to me is I'm still pissed, da-da-da-da, or my ex-husband cheating or my, I got cheated. I. I got cheated. or whatever like it was, my friend was mean to me

and I can't move on. And they would carry it with them. Week after week, month after month. I finally got, and I actually used this now in my events, a little tiny suitcase and I filled it with bricks. And I said, why you're dragging? I said, do you know what this is like when we keep talking about the same thing every week?

It's like dragging around a cement suitcase. You know how heavy that is? Yeah. On your energy field on your being? I said, so then when they would leave at the end of our meeting, I would say, take that suitcase with you and drag it with you everywhere you go and I'll see you next week and they go are you serious I'm like yes that's the weight that you're carrying with you I want you to take it with you and leave the office with my cement suitcase and they'd come back and go I think I'm ready to let that shit go and I go well thank God because you know what it doesn't serve you to hold it it's not helping you it's hurting you it's heavy and and it's not and it's not sometimes easy just to go, I was going to let it go. It's not like that. It's like what you said.

Let me get in here, explore this a little bit. Yeah. And when we look at things like you did, you know, I have people, I use that statement all the time. It's not why did this happen to me. Let's just, that's victim. And I go there too. I'm not judging anybody. I get it. I get what victim feels like. I don't like it. So I flip it. Again, it's the same thing sitting in front of me. The perspective over here is, why did this happen to me? When we say that over and over, and if you're listening, say it out loud, and then ask yourself the same question, why would this happen for me? Why did this happen for me? The keyword is for. Two or four? So if it happened for me, I then look at myself and I take the blame off of the other

person and I go, what did I learn from this? What can I learn from this? How can this help me? and I want to look at how I might have grown from this. Maybe I need better boundaries. Maybe I need to do trigger work. Maybe I need to end the relationship. I don't know, but it's something for us. And if we're willing to learn, that's empowerment. We go from victim to empowerment just by changing that statement.

From a statement to a question. It puts us, that's what number one pillar is all about. I own my reality. I take responsibility. It's not saying that I'm going to take responsibility for all the bad things in my life. But one at a time, start looking at it. That's another one, man.

I grew a lot from that. But I see my clients, they go, holy crap, I never saw it like that. Yeah. I'm more empowered because of this now. Yeah. You got to be willing to slow down, stop, and really do bits and pieces of this work. You don't do it all in the day. No.

You do it along the way when it comes up. That's right. And that's part of it. I mean, we all do that. We want everything right now. I do it sometimes too. I catch myself when I'm. doing it now. I didn't used to, but we just, when you want something, you want it. And it doesn't

matter what it is. And you realize that a lot of the stuff in life that you do is a marathon and it's not a sprint. And if you take it in that manner, you'll be a lot more successful. There are times where it's a now thing, but a lot of things that are complex or worth it or more difficult, they take time. Yeah. And they take patience and they take understanding. And when you grasp that, you will accomplish a hell of a lot more. Yeah. So let me just before, because we're running low, I want to ask you about your podcast. So what kind of discussions do you have and what kind of people's guests do you have on? Where does it go?

What's the subject manners or is it all over the place? Gosh, you know, it's interesting because the first 200 episodes, it was a lot of me teaching exactly what we're talking about. And then I started gaining, not gaining, but asking more guests to join me. Yeah. And then I found it shifted. Again, it used to be called the adult chair podcast. So I just talked about everything that's in this book. I just kept talking about that stuff, and I would talk about everything from how to improve your

relationship, how to speak to your partner, how do you work with anxiety, like very, the things that most humans live with every day. But then I started having more guests on. And now I'm finding myself actually shift back there because people have asked me so much like, can you talk about, you know, when you talked about codependency, like one of the things, for example, someone just said it to me the other day. She's like, can you talk about the joy of codependency again? Because That was one of the podcasts I did. Such a great show. I think I did 25 shows on codependency at least.

Because I know, I told you, I know it really well. But I'm going, I'm shifting back now to where I'm doing a lot more shows solo, but also some of my guests are guests that have, I really love guests that have unique perspectives on healing and transformation. I've had some really cool guests on that have had near-death experiences. I've had really cool guests on that. that have like amazing healing capabilities and they talk about how we can develop that within ourselves. So, ourselves. So yeah, it's it's fun. I'm all about transformation. Everything I do

has to do with building a healthy relationship with self so we can have a relationship, a healthy relationship with others. That's what I'm all about. But the umbrella, of course, is always about transformation. How do we transform? Not that there's anything wrong with us, because I don't think any of us are broken, but I'm all about, uncovering the true self and helping people remember who they truly are. We were that human. When we were born, we were born with that pure essence. Then we got programmed. So I'm a deprogrammer, Dylan. I think it's though it's very important to get people to come on and humanize themselves and be open and let everybody know that we all go through it and we all. I try to do that on my end.

Look, you know, I tell people, I have a big following online. it make me any better than you or any more special just means good at what I'm due. And I, I want you to see I'm just like everybody else. I'm not looking at myself anyway. I have problems. I have this. I have that. I have knowledge that I can help you with. And I want you to see what I'm doing and see where I have faults. And I want to teach you what I did wrong so that you don't do it. And I help people that may be on that path or thinking about that path. Like, look, I don't get a shame to talk about you have an eating problem, going to prison, whatever, because all that stuff shape me, you know, and I think that when people see that, they go, well, shit, if so-and-so

did it, I can do it. It makes you feel a different sort of way about yourself. So I think that's important. And hopefully, like, conversations like this and when you bring on people and I do and we're like a little vulnerable, I guess, or just on, I don't even know if it's vulnerable. It's just honest, you know. It's both. I mean, I think it's both. Yeah. And you sharing your prison story. I mean, God, it gives people permission to share their own story. I share a lot of my history when I do live events and even on my own show. I just don't care. I'm like, it's just our story shapes us and it's beautiful. But people know who is Michelle, who is Dylan? Why go and act like you're something that you're not?

Because people find out eventually and it just, it just takes your, well, I mean, not credibility is everything, but it just takes away from, what you're doing because you're just not being honest with them and you're not being honest with yourself exactly and everybody's got stuff like i said i don't know of anyone that doesn't and when i lived in Nashville i worked with movie stars i worked with singer-songwriters i worked with people that you definitely know everyone a lot of these people and uh they've all got to say everybody has stuff everybody i always tell people there's people that get away with it and people that don't you know what i mean and everybody is in these fucking glass houses and and like on the political side and they want to act like,

oh my gosh. And it's like, you're the biggest culprits and the biggest perpetrators are the ones that throw the most stones, the fastest, get the most angry, the quickest and the ones that excuse the most. They're the ones that are doing the most shit.

I guarantee it. They're going to get their triggers. Exactly. Triggering me right now. Yeah. No, you're right, though.

It's true. And it's because they don't want to look inside at themselves. No, no, it's true. It's a hard. That's where the magic happens. That's where,

oh my God. It's like, and you can't, and that's when the ego you know is in the driver's seat. It's like, get out. I'm scared to death, but I'm going to sit. I'm going to look at my stuff. And I'm going to tap into this true. I don't even know what the hell the true self is, but I want to go there a little bit more. I'm going to start being more vulnerable and more radically honest.

It's set that's free. Oh, my God, does it set us free? Can you imagine hiding the fact that you were in prison? And you don't want anybody to know. I don't want anybody to know. This can never get out. Yada, yada. It's like, no, I don't, it doesn't matter.

Just say it, you know? That's a big deal. I changed my name after I got out, like, from my middle name to my last name and thought like that was going to be some big escape for me. And I mean, I was used my middle name on social before that anyway, but whatever, man. You're going to get what you're going to get. And that's it. And if you like me, great.

If you don't, great. But you're going to get the real me. So whatever. We all want the real you. And I say that to anybody that's still listening. Listening. Yeah. Humans want the real you. They don't want the fake you. They don't want the one that's wearing masks. They want the real you to have deep nourishing conversations with and connections with. That's what everybody's looking for. You know, like you get an online persona. It's like, you know,

the role I'm playing right now? I'm playing me. And that's it. So that's all the only role I really want to play. Well, Michelle, just more of a pleasure than I expected. I expect it. it a lot. So I appreciate it so much. I'm going to link everything for you, your book, your podcast. Just real quick. Best places to follow you as it, uh, you know, your website, what socials, etc. Yeah, I would say YouTube or Instagram. Um, and to make it easy, I mean, you can go to Michelle Shelfont.com. Just go to Theadultchare.com. It takes you to the same place. It's easier to remember. But Theadultchair.com. And the book is available everywhere, like Amazon, Target, Barnes of Noble everywhere in Australia, UK, Canada, everywhere.

So the adult chair.com. There you go. I thoroughly, thoroughly appreciate this, enjoyed it, and we'll replay this multiple times. So I hope everybody enjoyed this and gained a lot and hopefully learned about yourself throughout this, or at least it made you want to take a look at yourself and to just get yourself better in any way that you can. So all right, everybody.

That wraps up another one. Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jameli and Michelle Chelfont, signing off.