The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #50 SPECIAL EDITION Featuring Dave Asprey! WHAT IS BIOHACKING? The importance of mitochondrial health, Nutritional myths and realities, Calling out cholesterol myths and more!!

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Episode #50 SPECIAL EDITION Featuring The Founder of Biohacking, Dave Asprey!    A TRUE EPIC COVERING ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING BIOHACKING, HEALTH, MYTH BUSTING, CALLING OUT NONSENSE AND SO MUCH MORE!!   This interview gets right to it with Dylan asking Dave to define Biohacking, which stirs laughs but then gets true insight on what many make to be a polarizing topic, with a true breakdown and understanding from the founder himself.  The conversation shifts to another polarizing discussion about the myths surrounding cardio training and weight loss, a topic many have confusion and misconception about.  Dylan then brings up the topic of the Bulletproof diet with Dave, discussing how it changed his life and Dave discusses many aspects of why it is beneficial.  There is a strong and passionate discussion about the importance of animal fats, how they were demonized and the importance they carry to overall health.  THEN it gets heavy as Dave calls out the BS surrounding conventional cholesterol concepts.  Dylan and Dave take a very deep dive into the many misleading aspects of what we have been told about cholesterol.  Then it shifts to more in depth science related discussion about the importance of Mitochondrial Health and Dave provides thorough insight that he has covered over the years.  There is a discussion about the benefits of Urolithin A and its effect on mitochondrial health as well as the well known product MITOPURE made by Timeline which is the #1 doctor recommended Urolithin A supplement.  Dylan also brings up NAD misconceptions and Dave provides a true understanding of how NAD really works for our overall health.  The discussion ends with an entertaining discussion on oatmeal and other food related topics that provide true understanding and several laughs along the way!   Dave Asprey is well known as one of the most influential experts in the Biohacking and Alternative health world.  This is an episode you will want to watch time and time again!!     HUGE THANK YOU to everyone supporting The Dylan Gemelli Podcast!  It is because of ALL OF YOU, YOUR SUPPORT and the Guidance from GOD that Dylan has grown so fast and it has ONLY JUST BEGUN!!    Check out Dave's Homepage: https://daveasprey.com/   Follow Dave on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dave.asprey/?hl=en   Buy Dave's New Book "Heavily Meditated" and all other books he has written: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B00A1VAH5Q       Today's episode is sponsored by TIMELINE   To PURCHASE MITOPURE visit Dylan's landing page and use code DYLAN to save 20% OFF!! https://shop.timeline.com/DYLAN _______________________________________________________________________________ Get the Apollo Neuro for $90 OFF!! USE CODE GEMELLI to save https://apolloneuro.com/gemelli     TONUM supplements for the MIND AND BODY!   USE CODE "DYLAN" to save!!  https://www.tonum.com/DYLAN     THE BREAKTHROUGH MIMIO HEALTH FASTING MIMETIC SUPPLEMENT!  20% OFF with code Gemelli  https://mimiohealth.sjv.io/c/6588260/3323599/30611     TRULY Increase Your NAD LEVELS with WONDERFEEL NMN: https://getwonderfeel.com/?utm_source=DylanGemelli&utm_medium=podcast     MESCREEN: The world's first and only at home mitochondrial efficiency test Save $100 with CODE   DYLAN   https://mescreen.com/cart/47561239626013:1?discount=&ref=DYLAN       HIRE DYLAN ON THE MINNECT APP HERE: expert.minnect.com/@DylanGemelli     Follow Dylan on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok @dylangemelli and PLEASE SUBSCRIBE and leave reviews!!   MAKE SURE TO GO TO DYLAN'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL for MORE video content!!    https://www.youtube.com/@DylanGemelliBiohacking Email Dylan for booking, collaborations and/or to apply for the Dylan Gemelli Podcast [e-mail] Visit Dylan's Homepage https://dylangemelli.com    

Today's episode is sponsored by my good friends at Timeline. Timeline is now offering the world's first ever longevity gummies powered by Midapear. You've heard me talk about the importance of cellular health and our mitochondria, which is why I have Timeline as my favorite and most trusted sponsor. These are the only clinically proven urolithin A gummies for strength and healthy aging. We may be living longer lifespans, but are we truly living better lives? What if the key is not just adding years to your life, but life to your years? This all starts at the cellular level.

As we age, our mitochondrial health starts to decline, and one of the keys to living longer and healthier is keeping our mitochondria healthy and strong and might appear targets this for us. Take control of your health now and live the life that you not only desire, but you also deserve. As a gift to all my listeners, you can save 20% off today by going to Timeline.com. backslash dillon to get started that's timeline.com backslash dillon i assure you your cells will thank you all right everybody welcome back to the dylan jemeli podcast so this has been an interview that i have been dying to get for i don't know how long and it is one of the biggest honors and pleasures that i've had there is literally no intro that i'm going to be able to do to give this man even a fraction

of what he has done or what I could say, but I am going to give a little bit of his background, which I'm sure most of you know, but I want to cover some of the bases before we get into our interview. So he is the founder of Bulletproof Coffee, the Bulletproof Diet, and the biohacking movement.

He's a four-time New York Times bestselling author. He has a brand new book. It's in the background, as you can see. It's a bestseller. It's called Heavily Meditated. And he is the CEO of Upgrade Labs, and he hosts an amazing podcast. It's called The Human Upgrade Podcast. He pioneered online sales in the 90s.

He co-founded an early data center company, and he later transformed his own health by losing 100 plus pounds and improving his cognitive function. So this journey has led him to create the bulletproof diet and coin the term biohacking. And Dave Bruns the 40 years of Zen. neurofeedback program, the biohacking conference, which was absolutely amazing, and a regenerative agricultural farm while investing in biohacking startups. So as a leader in the longevity movement, he collaborates with medical professionals, researchers, and innovators to develop groundbreaking techniques and products that enhance mental and physical performance. And using science-backed

methods, his mission is to help people upgrade their minds to a happier, more conscious state, and optimates their bodies one cell at a time. So my friends, this is Dave Osprey. Wow, that was quite the feeding of my spiritual ego. I'm going to have to go meditate or something. Thanks, Dillard. Absolutely, man. Well, first, I know how busy you are and taking any sort of time like this is a really big deal.

And for giving it to me, I really, really appreciate it. So thank you before I even get going with everything. It is. It's an honor to be here. Anytime people are going to invest an hour of their time to listen to something I have to share, I can only be grateful. So thank you for making it happen. Absolutely. Well, we're going to put you in front of as many people as possible. So look, you've had a major impact on I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of people. And I'm going to tell you right now, you helped me transform from being in the bodybuilding industry to making a transition into biohacking, which for me, personally has changed my life and opened up a million other avenues and made me feel like I'm kind of doing God's will now. And you've played a major impact in that. And so I want to get into this polarizing term biohacking because it is polarizing to some people. And I think once you get into it, you realize it's, it gets only polarizing to dumb people.

Explain what it, what it means and how you came up with it. Please. please. By the way, I only said that to trigger people, and we're going to talk about why you got triggered if you didn't get triggered. So I don't really believe that. Biohacking is just the art and science of changing the environment around you and inside of you so you have full control of your state, full control of your biology. And it united like kombucha moms and yoga teachers and breathwork teachers and bodybuilders and neuroscientists and Navy SEALs and longevity doctors. And that let us all come together and say, it's not about doing just one thing. It's about doing the right recipe with the right ingredients to get the results you want. And I've said from the very beginning

of the biohacking movement that some of the best biohackers in the world are bodybuilders. Because the mindset for bodybuilding is I want a specific state. I want this amount of body fat, this amount of muscle, this amount of hydration,

and here's all the levers and cranks and tools I can use. I just got to pick the right ones and I can do it. Right? And then you practice and you measure. Like this is some of the heritage of biohacking. In fact, I opened Upgrade Labs, the world's first biohacking center underneath Arnold Schwarzenegger's office in Santa Monica about 10 years ago.

Today it's a franchise. We've got about 30 locations in the process of opening, about nine open. And people can partner it. You go to own and upgrade labs.com and we can open one in your neighborhood. It's like AI longevity. but if you're a bodybuilder, only 10% of the equipment has to do with stimulating muscle because it requires a small amount of AI stimulation combined with superhuman recovery and nutrition to create massive change, whether it's VO2 max or whether it's muscle growth.

You don't have to work hard. We have this idea that working hard for long periods of time gets better results, especially in cardio it doesn't. And even when you're training with weights, the way you load your muscle and the way you recover is more important than overloading the muscle. So I want you to save every minute of time. And if your goal is I want to have a bodybuilder's physique, well, let's help you do that in a way that takes less time and doesn't put a strain on your cardiovascular system. I cannot resonate with you enough on this. Now, I just actually found that my ejection fraction

was on the little bit lower end for where it should be. And I'm doing 100 minutes of zone four cardio five days a week for the last 15 years. That was kind of a mistake. Kind of. Yeah. And you know what I'm realizing by I've been stepping down and stepping away, I'm losing more weight and I'm eating more calories and I'm doing less cardio. Isn't it so offensive? People have been telling us since I was a 300 pound fat young, the 22 year old, that oh, if I would just do more cardio and just go to the gym more and eat less, I would lose weight. I believe this so fervently, 18 months straight, six days a week, 90 minutes a day without fail. On a low fat, low calories to my vegetarian diet, I never lost an inch off my waist, 46 inch waist, beginning and end, never lost a pound. Sure,

I put on some muscle under my flabbs, but I had flabs not abs. And I was so disillusioned. I'm sitting at Carl's Jr. with all my thin friends, because there were a lot of thin people back then, you know, the early, actually, there's late 90s. And they're eating double Western baking cheeseburgers. I mean the chicken salad with no dressing. Oh, no chicken, because of calories. Like, maybe I'm eating too much lettuce. And I work out more than all my friends combined and eat less than the smallest of them. And I'm still fat.

And I thought it was a moral failing. And it was that, no, this advice is bullshit. And that was one of the things that really led me to say, I'm only going to do it works. I'm going to measure things. And I'm going to stop following stupid advice. I don't care of some double-blind study or some angry PhD troll named Lane just decides that they're going to yell about something. over and over and over to make it true. That isn't how it works. If it does not work for you, then don't do it. Measure it within ORA ring, early investor advisor to ORA. And in fact, I was

CTO and co-founder of the first fitness tracker to get a heart rate from the wrist. Like, I believe in this stuff. And only do what works. And if I tell you something and your HRB goes the wrong way, then don't do what I said, do what someone else said or read more details because we're not all the same. The recipe is different. And you know this is a former bodybuilder and as a biohacker now. you take a 50-year-old woman, the rules are different than a 50-year-old dude. And if it's an 18-year-old, it's going to be completely different. Right. So you've got to look at the hormonal environment.

You got to look at the other environmental factors. I was working with a pro-athlete the other day, a very top-ranked one. And I'm not going to name the sport just for confidentiality. But, you know, she had a series of three seemingly unrelated things that put her system in a sympathetic overdraft. And her doctors, who don't know about biohacking, they said, oh, you have some insades. So they gave her leaky gut, which led to brain fog. So now you got a pro athlete with brain fog, leaky gut,

joints still hurt because of the leaky gut. And no one ever said, you know, you kind of had a head injury, followed by an emergency surgery for something else, and you just never recovered. It's the recipe of how you got here. It's different for every one of us. And so I just want you to understand what I'm saying,

I will tell you principles, and I will tell you what's most likely to work. But if you don't measure, you don't follow that rule, track what you hack, you might get different results. And if you go deeply, we'll probably can tell you why in this episode. It's not that it doesn't work.

It's that you're not the same as any other human on the planet. And it's okay. That's right. You know, I got into this conversation with Ben Azadi and we were talking about how I suffered from lipophobia, even being a nutritionist for 20 years. I started being a nutritionist from my early 20s. And I still, to this, till about six to eight months ago, was absolutely terrified of eating fats and I like you would stall out or like wonder why am why do I feel like shit and why this and

why that when I'm eating 13 servings of vegetables a day and oatmeal and egg whites and just living on it right and you know what Dave man I started to look into the the bulletproof diet that you came up with and I took aspects of that and then I told my wife one day I said you know what I am done I can't do this anymore I'm miserable and I I started following a lot of what you had in there, and I mixed some of my own stuff in there. And I went from 16,700 calories a day to now 2,700 and fat from like 20 grams of fat to 130. And I'm thriving, like thriving.

And I'm embarrassed to even talk that I was doing this, but I'm happy to help people and say what you said was rising. Do you know how rare of a human you are? you have more than a decade invested in an identity, in a mindset, and a belief. And scientists at big universities do the same thing. And then you had the balls and the audacity to say, oh, my God, maybe some of my assumptions are wrong. And instead of feeling threatened, like, I guess I'll try it.

And one of the reasons that Bulletproof and the Bulletproof coffee became so famous, by the way, I am not at Bulletproof anymore. Danger Coffee is my new coffee company, Danger, because who knows what you might do? but the reason became such a big deal is, you know that you go to a Tony Robbins event, and there's those hot coals, you're going to walk on coals. And that first step,

you're like, I'm going to die. The first time that I came back from Tibet where I had yak butter tea and I took a big old hunk of butter and I put it in a blender, it was like walking on colds. I'd been a vegan,

I'd been a raw vegan. Everyone had told me butter would kill me. But all of the science, all the longevity nonprofit work I'd done, it led to a different conclusion. And I said, I'm just going to try this. this for a little while. And I put it in there, I tested a bunch of different recipes. And when I got it

dialed in, everyone who drank it would feel amazing. But they'd always feel like they were going to die the first time to put that hunk of butter in there. It was like a step into the unknown. It's like, you're risking your life. You weren't. You're actually helping. And the fact, you could do it as someone who was really in the anti-fat camp, that says a lot about your willingness to question everything and to be truthful. So congratulations. man. And by the way, extra thousand calories a day, I had the same experience. I had this, this weird time where I said, I know I've learned fat doesn't make you fat, not the way they say, and some fat does make you fat. Each fat does different things. But I went on an early version. I was

kind of stress testing the bulletproof diet before I was willing to publish it. So I was doing 4,500 plus calories a day. And I was just going to do this for a month. I'm like, I'm going to just, I'm going to set myself up less than five hours of sleep every night, no exercise and 4,500 colleges a day. I'm going to do it for a month. The math says I should gain 20 pounds or something, and I'm only going to gain one or two or something. I grew up.

I actually felt great. I did it for months. And overfeeding is not good for longevity. I don't recommend anybody do that. You know, conservation of energy and Newton's law, all of Newtonian physics is bullshit. Reality runs at quantum level. Newtonian physics is just a story that fits pretty well about reality,

but it is not an accurate story. And I love to take the trolls, the calories in calories out, die hard. They're doing it like a religion. And I say, oh, if you're going to get fat, eat a gram of uranium. That's more than a million calories. And they go, but you can't digest uranium. I go, do we need to keep going? And then they go, well, that's not fair.

Okay, okay. How about this? Did you know that there's a drug that ranchers give to cows that's an extract of toxic mold that makes cows get fat on 30% less calories. They go, no, no, okay, it's called zero and all. It's an extract of a mold toxin that's 10,000 times stronger than human estrogen, and it grows in houses. But if this mold can exist, and it's a drug that ranchers spend tens of millions of dollars a

year on if you have to buy less corn, you're going to tell me calories and calories out, still a thing. Right. The only way you can still do that is if you're one of those people who's like, you know, if you say what I don't like, Lord will strike you down from heaven with a stick of rice cake or I don't even know what's going on of those people, but they're not sane. No,

I agree. The calorie bros, they're out in the wild and this, all calories are equal and all of this. And I tell people, you're telling me that if I put this and this hand and this in this hand, these French fries that are 200 calories and this 200 calorie piece of chicken, they're the same thing.

And I'm just lost as to how they're the same. It's funny, too, because as a bodybuilder, give someone 100 grams a day of soy protein, 100 grams a day of whey or beef protein. And you tell me who's going to have bitchdits. Right. 100%.

I couldn't agree more. This shit that people get on, it's confounding to me. And I, you know, it's easy to fall into that trap, which we all have. But when you start questioning things

and doing things on your own and seeing how they work, it's amazing. And one of the things that you're big on that I am now. now big on his animal proteins. And I want to know why for you. I mean, I know why, but I want the audience to hear why the animal proteins are so beneficial

and so important. And why they've been stigmatized. Ooh, well, the why, we're going to have to go into some theories that I cannot prove or disprove. That's okay. I think I know why. And why are they better? They're better because they work better.

Because of digestibility and amino acidity. and amino acid availability. Mm-hmm. And you see these poor, sad, weak bone density vegans. And they're like, beans and rice are complete protein.

Even if you extract the proteins from the beans and the rice, you're going to eat an awful lot of it. And it still doesn't work as well. The very best plant proteins are 30% less available than animal proteins. Animal proteins have more minerals,

more vitamins, and they don't come with toxins. And all of the, the plant proteins come with high amounts of heavy metals. They come, if they're naturally whole foods packaged, they come with a huge amount of mineral depletion, oxalates, sometimes histamines, lectins, and omega-6 fats, and a boatload of carbs. So you just can't do it. And saying something is true doesn't make it true. And you go to India, where everyone's vegetarian, not vegan, not everyone, but many people.

people. When they're eating their traditional diet full, I mean full of ghee with some coconut oil and Lassie, which is full fat dairy, and butter and eggs, which are in many of the dishes, oh, they're eating a high saturated fat diet with some protein, right? They don't have obesity. They don't have high blood pressure. They don't have diabetes. It's the introduction of American in seed oils and the exclusion of saturated fat, particularly stearic acid, that leads to these problems. 100%. I thoroughly agree. And I've been on that because I had found some plaque in my arteries, which was unexplainable, honestly, and this thing of wanting me to crush my LDL down in the

30s, which is what I was being advised to do. God, give yourself cancer. Why don't you? Exactly. And that's why I said. That is. absolutely insane. And so I, you know, I understand that so I wouldn't take the statins. And I didn't, it was an LP. Little A issue, which is a genetic issue. It's not something you can control with diet and weight loss. And so I've gone to other means and doing it and hacked my way down in my score. But I thoroughly agree. And the cholesterol thing is what I want your opinion on. The LDL, dropping your LDL too low, what kind of negative effect can that have and why do you feel like that is being

pushed on so many people aside from the obvious with the statin market? When you talk about why low LDL gets promoted and we talk about why low animal protein gets promoted, there's usually an emergent phenomenon. Right. And I studied artificial intelligence. I designed highly distributed high-scale computer networks for a living. And what happens when you take a small rule and you repeat it an infinite number of times, you get what looks like complex behavior. So a lot of the structures of life, like flowers, plants, the way our bodies grow, it looks so complex. It's the same simple, simple rules repeated infinite number of times, like seashells and lizards.

They're all based on math done over and over and over. Stephen Wolfer proved this about 15 years ago. So weird. Complexity emerges from simple rules played infinite numbers of times. Well, with both the pharmaceutical side of things, the low LDL, and with the animal protein side of things, the rule is make money. So you're getting millions and millions of micro decisions made by well-meaning, sometimes, people, people who are willing to say,

I know I saw some data that says this LDL thing is something we shouldn't lower, but I'm going to ignore that data because I don't like it. So I'm going to convince myself it doesn't matter and that low LDL is the end-all-b-all. I'm going to convince myself. I have the head of R&D at Pepsi and the former CEO of Pepsi. And she said, if Pepsi was a country, it would be the 17th largest economy in the world. And Pepsi at the time was entirely vegan, right? Because that was her belief system.

And so they just threw out all the data that didn't support vegan. And then they fervently believed it was a good thing, right? And I, I mean, I spoke to her and her intent was, how do we lower toxins? Like, we're doing our best. But believing something that doesn't work is highly toxic, right? It has to actually work. Right. So what I think, that's one explanation is well-meaning people with profit as a motive instead

of something else. The other one is, and sometimes I find myself thinking about this, but I can't prove it. If you were to design a system to make humans less fertile and weak and sick, you would do what we did. We have the worst quality lighting. We have the lowest quality seed oils. They're putting fluoride in the water. That is, dude, the Nazis pioneered putting fluoride in water in order to make people more docile because it poisons our thyroid. So if it was just some things were good and some things were bad, but it's almost universally, the recommendations are the worst ones you can do.

And then there's always functional doctors and others who are saying, this stuff doesn't work. And then they get shattered down and canceled. But so, I mean, I would have been like, maybe I'm just being, but then I saw the behavior of the world during the pandemic. And the truth has come out. Everyone who got the jab actually has higher risk, higher risk of dying from everything, all cause mortality. That is real. And that was backed by science. and there were thousands of physicians and other people like me

who were talking about this during the pandemic, I lost 95% my reach for two years because I had the audacity to say, as the author of a major book on fertility, my first book, it is a poor idea to inject anything into a pregnant woman, whether it's tested or not, unless it's life-threatening,

because there's a lot of stuff we don't yet understand, especially in the first trimester. So let's not stick pregnant women with tested or untested things. Right. And man, they came after me. I got my warning letter from the FTC for one of my things. I got on fact check.org. Now, these are some of my largest career achievements. Right. And how an org sends you a whole post about why entrepreneur Dave Asprey who says people make money off the pandemic and explains how that he's wrong. I'm like, you bring it. You bring it guys. Thank you. But that's not. So I think there are some people who hate humans and they want us to die. I really believe that. I don't think we should put sociopaths in charge. I really don't. It's not a partisan issue.

This is an evil issue. Call me crazy, but I have to agree with everything that you just said there. It's craziness. And I agree with you. And what I saw, it was some of the most troubling and bothersome things. Thankfully, you know, it appears now that there's at least more capability of being a little bit more open and talking about these things. And people are more receptive now to listen. And hey, to each her own, man, if you want to do what you do, do what you do.

But I'm just thankful that there's people like you and communities like we have now where we can talk about this and put it out there and conventions like you put on and ways that we can learn from each other and grow. That's why I'm part of this, man, and why I shifted everything that I'm doing is to be a part of this. So, well, you're doing something that's going to help you. It's going to help your family. It's going to have all the people who listen because you're willing to evolve.

and so am I. Like, I've been wrong about things, and I evolved things. And one thing where I've been very, very clear for the past 15 years, I've not eaten any seed oils other than if they're in a nut or something. I don't even eat very many nuts anymore and, you know, small boil. But you think with the amount of butter and lard from healthy pigs ones I've raised and beef tallow and all that stuff and, you know, dairy fat, I'd have to see an effect. So I just, got to clearly scan, you know what that is? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So this is the gold standard to look at soft plaque in your, right? Not calcified plaque. Calcified plaque isn't as dangerous as people think. Like that's the table at least. Well, I didn't have calcified black and I didn't have any diffuse

soft black at all after 15 years of only eating that stuff and, you know, maybe an ounce or two of olive oil most days. Right. So I am the worst case on that. I did have two spots where there was a slight thickening of plaque. Everyone else is perfectly clean. And the explanation for that, according to the imaging people I work with, is, oh yeah, you had COVID twice. That's what the spike protein does.

Those are just parts of the arteries that are healing right now, and that will go away over time. So anyone who has soft flack, it's really not that hard to get rid of it. It's called natokinase. Something I recommend all throughout the pandemic because it also digests any foreign proteins, including spiky ones that are in you.

You take 4,000 units of natokinase and lumbro kinase, if you want to be fancy on top of it. And you do that for a couple of years. It'll get rid of most plaque. It's absolutely solvable, but you can't be eating garbage the whole time. Yep. I've been taking 12,000 of natokinase since I found out I had plaque. And I'm also getting the clearly test done as well. And I've taken courses on it to fully comprehend and understand it.

So like you said, gold standard, if you really want to know the true. amount of plaque because when people get a calcium score, it's only measuring hard plaque and it's still an estimate, right? It's not real evasive or going to give those right numbers. So I'm really glad you brought that up because a lot of people aren't aware of that test at all. And it's it's the gold standard. And it's AI driven. It's not some guy or woman reading it that can really kind of read it however the hell they want. You know, so thanks for bringing that up. You're welcome. It's part of the advanced longevity stuff that I do. And I run a very, very high-end longevity, biohacking, and consciousness, fulfillment, a mastermind. That's conciergeers, 24-7 longevity care and all that for a small group of high net worths, along with a couple partners. And this is the kind of stuff that we put them through. And then, like, well, most of us aren't going to go to that trouble, and it's expensive. So for that, part of Upgrade Labs, which is my franchise, we have our testing,

platform called Axo. You go to Upgradelabs.com and look at it and it costs a few hundred bucks. And you can order the 100 plus markers that I have determined for longevity and performance that actually matter. And it includes your LP, little A and LP, PLA 2, the one you talked about. And the things like homocysteine and cortisol and testosterone and the thyroid and all the stuff you would need to know with AI interpretation of it. And recommendations, here's the lifestyle, here's the supplements, here's what to do. Right. And you can do. talk to your doctor if you want, but we're not going to diagnose or treat anything. I just want you to live for a very long time and be abundantly healthy. And it turns out none of those are medical conditions.

So weird. That's Upgradelabs.com. I think it's not very expensive anymore. And you can get a longevity age out of that. You can get two of them, actually. So you're telling me you actually test the things we need to test for, not the BS that you get at the doctor's office. We do. We do measure LDL because it's just about free these days, but people with low LDL die more from all cause mortality. Right. The people who are the 100 plus club, you know, the super longevity or super centenarians we call them, they have more LDL than average, not less. And higher LDL later in life is a predictor of longevity.

And LDL helps your body escort toxins out of the body and be resilient to toxins. LDL is simply not bad for you. Oxidized LDL is bad for you. So what I tell people, if you're still afraid of LDL or anything else, the most important marker of vascular health that you're going to find is LPPLA2. It's an enzyme that's released when anything damages the lining of your arteries.

It could be your obsession with kale smoothies where you're getting oxalated in the blood that damages your arteries. It could be this mythical LDL problem, but it's not. And it could be many other things. But if anything is hurting your arteries, that number goes out. So if your LDL is, oh, no, my total cholesterol is 200. I have to get on drugs. That's just a marketing campaign. Right.

And you know what else was a marketing campaign? So I was co-founder of one of the early fitness trackers, and I tracked this down. You know where 10,000 steps a day actually came from? No. In 1952, a Japanese company invented the first pedometer that counts your steps. They made up 10,000 as a goal. And there was a marketing campaign that swept across Japan in the 1950s. And we've been repeating that crap ever since.

Really? The old numbers are the same game. The guy's selling you statins. Oh, look, we have a drug that lowers something. Your body needs to make hormones. Let's just tell everyone that $2, $2.20, I mean $200, I mean $180, as low as you can get so we can sell more of these things. It's all bullshit.

I believe it. I totally believe it. Okay, so I want to shift into some of the things that you and I both kind of take and that we talk about, and I've really kind of dug into what you've been discussing with certain types of supplements and also areas of study which would revolve around NAD and mitochondria. So I'd like to kind of touch on both of these because I want your expertise on both areas because of the importance. I have taken a real big study into mitochondria because I started to partner with timeline several months ago. And yes, they are the best. And so it made me

study cellular health a hell of a lot more than I ever did, right? Have you read Headstrong, my cognitive enhancement book? No, I have not. The masterclass book on understanding mitochondria. I mean, it is so detailed. It was on the New York Times Science Monthly list, which is different than normal books. And it was between homo-duce and sapiens. I was like the meat in the sandwich.

And that is, like, if you want to understand mitochondria at a, like, scientific layperson's view without having to read, like, textbooks on it, It's like, here's what they are, here's the levers, and you're trying to think about them. I think that would be fantastic to help you dial in. And I also, I use a timeline. I've been working with them since the very first podcast about Eurolithanae was on my show. Like that helped to make it a thing. And they present at the biohacking conference.

And that's biohackingconference.com. You'll be there next year, I'm assuming. I was there this year. I'll be there every year from here on out, man. Steve Aoki was our DJ last year. He said it'll come back this year. And it's, it's hard to express what happens to be at 4,500 people who care about longevity and consciousness. It's a great vibe.

And it's the conference that launched the movement of biohacking. And I, uh, it's my favorite thing every year. Well, I'll tell you this. I went to seven conferences in the past year, I think, and that one trumped them all. And that's even A for M, which is the, you know, so big and so well known. But I had the most fun. I actually have a little documentary that my step. son's making me. I'm going to send you what I'm done of my whole time at the conference.

I can't wait to see it. Yeah, you're going to love it. You're going to love it. It's funny. I've lectured there multiple times with thousands of doctors, but every year, they just say the same things. Like, it's become kind of an echo chamber and it's kind of old and dusty. So next year, the Biobacco conference, we're offering medical education units as part of the conference. So doctors can come to the Biobacco Conference and they can fill out their longevity credits as they do it. Right. Biohacking and systems biology is different than old school longevity stuff.

Mm-hmm. 100%. That's amazing you're offering that. Just another testament to everything you're doing. Why is mitochondrial health so important? And what do people, what do most people not really know about it that they should know and understand and why it's vital to longevity? Okay.

We think about mitochondria the way we learned in seventh grade biology. Oh, there. the power house of the cell. Yeah. There are energy plants, or my favorite, we were floating around to single cells, and then we harnessed the mitochondria to be our mobile power plants. No, no, no, no.

All bacteria, all single-celled organisms can operate independently. They have a basic intelligence. They have an algorithm of life. What really happened is we had a cell floating around. mitochondria infected the cell. They're like, hey, look, a mobile petri dish. let's take over. And inside almost all of the cells in your body, there's way more ancient bacteria at columnist shots than your cells that you identify as you. So what's really happening in our

body is in near real time, mitochondria are talking to each other via many different mechanisms. They're deciding the state of your body and the state of the world around you. And then they're telling each system in the body what to do. And they're telling you what you're allowed to see or experience and how to feel about it. And then you believe it like it's real, and then you are your mitochondria's puppet. And wow, that means if they're stressed, they're going to not make energy as much,

and they're going to make inflammatory markers. They're going to make stress hormones, right? And if they're stressed because you have bad lighting at night in your house or because they're eating the wrong foods because there's not enough fat to build mitochondria, you're going to be stressed. And if they're stressed because you're telling of self a lot of stories about some childhood trigger trauma thing, then they're going to be

stressed because they pick up stress, right? And they're just simply saying, how do I keep this body alive as long as possible? And I eventually, by studying mitochondria and studying neuroscience for 10 years, measuring the brain waves five days at a time for very high-performing CEO types, more than a thousand of these, and measuring what's really going on in there. I know how it works now. there's an algorithm for how our bodies and our mitochondria think, and it's different than how our brains think. And it's really helpful to understand why mitochondria health is so important, because every disease of aging ultimately comes down to your mitochondria.

When you're in charge of everything, something went wrong with their system. And let me talk through how mitochondria make decisions, because I think it's enlightening on many different levels, including consciousness and meditation and happiness, which are part of the biohacking movement. If you join the baracking movement to solve one problem, pretty soon you'll be a longevity guy and then you'll be a consciousness guy. That's just how it works.

Like, oh, I feel so good. I want to live longer. Like, life is good. And then, oh, now I want to live longer, maybe I want to be happy. It's just, it's inevitable. And I built it. Yeah, I tricked some people. So here's how it works.

If I clap my hands, we know that it takes some time for the signal to make it across the internet. And then it came from your speakers to your ears and then you heard it. Because that's what you saw, right? That's not real. If we're measuring the auditory cortex in your brain, one third of a second after the signal reached your ears, your mitochondria allowed the signal through after they had a chance to decide what it was and how you were supposed to feel about it and what you even needed to know about it. What? Okay. So, and we know this third of a second window. It's a quarter second when you're 18 years old and it drifts up to about 350 milliseconds by the time you're 25. and it stays there hopefully until you die and if it goes above that you're getting dementia. So there's a window on reality where your body can censor what you see. It's like the old Super Bowl. You watch the Super Bowl and it's broadcast live and then Janet Jackson has a wardrobe thing.

And magically you see that. All live broadcast has an eight second censorship window to prevent that from happening unless you pay for it. You have a third of a second censorship window on reality that your mitochondria used to manipulate how you feel about things. So it's a distributed network of trillions of tiny environmental sensors with built-in compute nodes that are also manufacturing nodes. And they can manufacture heat, electricity, or a bunch of different chemicals. That's what they do. So they sense, they decide, and they do. And we get what's left after that. Wow.

I've never heard that breakdown. Yeah. This is why it's so confusing. This is new thinking. I presented this in front of the Dalai Lama's co-author, Victor Chan, who's been his best friend for 50 years. And he, on stage, very surprising to me, he said, Dave, now that I just heard about these F words, everything the Dalai Lama said over the last 50 years makes a lot more sense. And multiple Buddhist scholars are now looking at mitochondria in a new way as a foundational formation of our ego.

and heavily meditated the book behind you on the shelf there, yet the number one bestselling meditation and number one bestselling philosophy book in the country because of mitochondria. And show people to cover the book really quick, by the way, this is the other side effect of mitochondria. I did not fast, I was not dehydrated, I did not take any kind of medication.

I got off an airplane and that's just how I look. And I used to be a 300-pound guy. Like, what? That's because of mitochondria. So here's how they make decisions. Number one, if these are all F words, it makes easy, is fear. If something is scary, run away from kill or hide. This is why I can trigger someone by saying, only for dumb people, because if you're a dumb person,

you might get kicked out of the tribe and then a lion, tiger, a bear is going to eat you. Basically, if you have a trigger for, you know, being called dumb, then I triggered you. My finger was on your trigger. But it wasn't you. It was your mitochondria. Fear. And people who don't meditate spend nine times more energy on fear. than it really needs, and people who meditate spend six times more energy on fear than anything else,

because your mitochondria know it's game over if you die. Right. So you're hyper aware of threats. It's good. If there's a mugger behind a pillar, you're going to respond before you can think, as you should. So it serves you, but it sucks. The next one after fear is food. Eat everything. Right. Famine has been a problem, right? And this is a great thing. This is what a pig will do. it's what a tree will do, a slime mold will do it, or even like a politician, all of them will do the same things because all life does this. And then we have fear, then have food, and then the next thing that all life has to do, just stay alive for multiple generations.

It's an F word. You know that one? So, you know, all life must do this because it has to last for thousands of years. So it has to be multiple generations, and it's an F word. You've got this. Fear, food, and fight? I don't know. That's the person.

You're one of the rare people who doesn't drop an F-Bomb. It's fertility, but it could be the other F-bom. Right. Oh, I love it. That makes sense. This is so critical to understand right now, while you're listening to this show, your mitochondria, without your knowledge or permission, are invisibly analyzing everything in the world around you, saying,

should I kill it? Can I eat it and can I hump it? Right. 100%. The entire time you're alive, they are doing this before you have a chance to think. And is there anything you've ever done you're ashamed of that isn't one of those three? I mean, there's a lot I've done. I'm ashamed of. You didn't ask the girl out. You didn't take the opportunity.

You shied away from the thing. You didn't stand there. Fear. Fear. You ate the entire pizza wrapped around the Ben and Jerry. That was food. Right? the time you went out on the date with, you know, the whole cheerleader team or whatever you did.

God, I know this is the wrong date, but I'm going to do it anyway. Everything, right? No, it's true. Yep. Okay. It's not you. It's an automated system to keep your body safe and make sure that we reproduce that's installed as part of your operating system.

And you're the application, not the operating system. It's designed to be invisible. And it hates it when you become aware of it because it says, it's a threat. What if that do living in my, in my head who's really slow? It takes them like a whole second to figure anything out in your mitochondria that are really dumb. They're like, dude, I got this. Like, don't get my way. Don't get my way.

And here's what gives me hope about humanity is the next F word is friend. All life on earth forms the ecosystem. You support your own species. You support the species around you according to your ecological niche. So we're wired in our bones to be kind to each other. It's why we form family units. It's why we form tribes. It's why we help little kids.

who aren't ours, we help the old lady across the street. And it's why community is so nourishing when you have healthy support. And the final F word is the one that is the focus of heavily meditated in my 40 years of Zen neuroscience school. It's forgiveness. Because one thing our mitochondria are terribly good at is holding a grudge. So there's that one time in third grade, your coach yelled at you about something. And your mitochondria were like, ah, I got it.

When you were in third grade, you didn't feel. safe when that happened. So it basically turned on an alert, right? And it's an alert the same as your phone. Imagine if you're a therapist, your meditation teacher's like, okay, man, these TikTok alerts just keep popping up, I can't get anything done. And they're like, gently swipe left. Just set them to the side, recognize that they're part of being human. And you go to the biohacker, we're like, you swipe up and go into the system settings and just turn off the freaking alerts. They're both valid techniques. So all of psychology and all of meditation is manage alerts better.

And biohacking and what you have in heavily meditated, people spend $20,000 a week to learn how to do that. And I put that in that book. That's what's most important. You turn this off. Now your mitochondrial network that's constantly looking for threats, it'll stop seeing things as threats that aren't threats. And that frees up so much energy. When people go through 40 years of Zen, this five days of. really intense turning off alerts.

Well, they come out and they say everything feels easier. Because someone cuts you off in traffic? I mean, I used to have like the biggest muscles on my middle finger. That was by my most developed musculature in my 20s. And when I finally got this, like, it doesn't matter of somebody. I'd have zero change in my heart. And the story used to be there disrespecting me. And I didn't even know what the story was.

Man, it would just piss me off. It doesn't piss me off anymore. I don't have to regulate my behavior because, I don't care. It wasn't a threat. I just thought it was. Or so anytime you're angry, it's ultimately fear. It just doesn't feel like it.

It's just the way your body manipulates you to make sure you do what it wants. Yep. And you look at everyone in jail. It's pretty much those first three F words will get you in jail every single time if you don't regulate yourself very well. And you don't regulate yourself when your mitochondria don't make enough energy for you to regulate yourself. Right.

Man, what a breakdown. I really appreciate that. I'm so glad that I brought. that up and asked that and that we got into that because I've never heard any breakdown like that, and I've been studying this for quite a while. There is no one else on Earth. You'll hear that from. This is original work. It's amazing. And you, so what you just broke down, was that in the book that you were talking about that you have from prior? That's been heavily meditated. Okay. I've been the F words before, but to combine them in that way with neuroscience, the mitochondrial,

proper care and maintenance of mitochondria, especially in the brain, that is headstrong. all. My longevity book is superhuman. And if you read any of the recent big longevity books, exactly the same frameworks that I use, um, there are some people who are trying to say vegan diets that happen to contain collagen from cows are a longevity diet or something. That is not real. No. But I tell you why. Beautiful. Thank you so much for that breakdown. I want to jump into the NAD side now because I've seen you talk a lot about it. I've been working with someone that you are also very familiar with and I've learned a ton. I talked with Dr. Saltzman for a good two to three hours last week, and I can't even

did into how much I learned, and I know you've talked to him, so I want some of your thoughts because I know, and you know, this craze on NAD right now is out of control, and I don't think people have any sort of grasp whatsoever about taking NAD and the need for NMN as opposed to to NAD. Let's just talk about importance of NAD and then why people are so misguided right now on taking straight NAD and what they need to be doing. NAD is fundamental to mitochondrial function. And we all know how important mitochondria are after this conversation. Right. So as you age, your NAD levels drop linearly with time. And we have less NAD. You can make less electricity, less heat and less longevity compounds in your cells.

So there's a clear case for raising NAD. And I've been taking NAD precursors for 25 years. The first one was niacinamide, which is a form of niacin. And then N.R. Nicotenomide riboside came out. And I've been taking that for a long time. That's a company called Elysium. I've had David Sinclair on the show a couple of times.

And on the human upgrade, just actually earlier this week, I interviewed a guy named Lenny Grante, who has 40 years of experience working with NAD. And so nicotidamine riboside is kind of step one of raising your NAD levels. And then there's nicotinamide mononucleotide, or NMN, which is the second way, or I guess, third way of raising your NAD levels. And the other thing you can do is you can do NAD IVs. And I popularize these like in 2015. They're $1,000 a pop, takes two hours, and you feel like you're going to die.

someone standing on your chest, it does improve performance. It's just very expensive and it doesn't raise levels in the cells as much as supplementation with a mixture of NMN, NN, NAR, and Nacinamide. So there's various companies

I've worked with who make these kinds of formulas and some of them are better than others. And I think the first major company this was Elysium. I do a lot of work with Qualia. I'm calling NAD plus is a good product. And I like NMN a lot, and I like mixtures of precursors,

and I like it when they pair it with some antioxidants to block immune activation that can happen as a side effect of raising NAD. The specific combat is called CD38. Yes. Some people, they raise NAD, and then they feel good for two months, and they start getting weird inflammatory stuff. That's because some inflammatory cells eat all your NAD if you don't block them. So if you're taking appropriate NAD,

antioxidants or they're built into your formula. That's a good strategy. But raising your NAD is necessary as part of a longevity or cognitive performance strategy just in general. So with the C-38, because I'm using Wunderfield and they have rasteratrol in there and I believe like olive, olive extract and doesn't that address the CD-38. Wonderfield's a great brand. I could have easily mentioned them there as well in that list. I guess I was going linearly from back in time Yes, resveratrol is one way to do it. And having highly active resveratrols there, the olive polyphenols are fantastic. So many people are saying, oh, I'm going to drink olive oil every day.

It's a single most important thing. It's bullshit. Two tablespoons a day, 30 mils to 50 mils of olive oil is associated with increasing your longevity, and it's good for you. More than that, you push up your oleic acid numbers, and when your allic acid is excessive, your body oxidizes omega-6 fats much more easily. drew something called D5D and D60. So olive oil overdose doesn't work.

We tried that in the 90s and learned. And what does work is at least half your calories coming from healthy saturated fats. The rest primarily monosaturated and you can't avoid some omega-6s. And you don't need to. They're essential. They just need to be 5 or 10% undamaged. So you can take olive oil polyphenols without having to drink two gallons of the stuff a day. Right.

olive oil polyphenols like hydroxytyrosol that are relatively little known those are really important and by the way when you read headstrong my book from these those a few years ago hydroxytyrosol is one where i recommended mitochondrial supplements so there go there's your wonderfield connection love it man absolutely yeah that's that's another one that i started and i really started to learn more about n-d and pairing it with mitochondria like you said and when they go hand you understand how they go hand in hand, you realize the importance of addressing both areas. And so definitely, well, I know we're getting closer to the end. So there's a few things I want to talk to you about. One, let's get into talking about oatmeal. And I warned Ben about this when we talked.

I said, the oatmeal mafia is coming for us, dude, because we're blasting it. Now, I spent like the last 15 years eating oatmeal seven days a week, literally. And once I learned that it was horrible for you. When I stopped, I felt a thousand times better. And then I started wearing a CGM and seeing the spikes and going, man, what is going on here? So let's talk about that. Why is oatmeal not good for you? And why is this going to piss so many people off like you've already done in the past, which I found hilarious because they weren't grasping what you were saying? But I want to know why it's bad and why it's, aside from the glyphosate, which I think should be obvious. Why else is it bad? It's not really bad. One of the things that's made humans the dominant

species on the earth is that we could survive on all kinds of food. Here's what's happened. The people who own the slaves or control the peasants. We're talking thousands of years ago of the kings, the queens, the Egyptian, whatever's. They ate the meat, the butter, the fish, the cheese, even the wine, which probably wasn't good for them, but who knows. And they fed the peasants. the brown rice, the oatmeal, the porridge, gruel is what we called it. This is useful because it has enough energy to go plow the fields because it has calories, but it's low in nutrients and it's not good for you in many different ways. And we go into what those are, but it's good enough to feed the peasants so they can do the work

so I can have the cheese. That means it's become like soul food. And people get so weird and religious because of their mitochondrial. condoble food connection. Like, oh, this is sole food. These are the, this is the food of my European peasant roots. Like, get over yourself, dude. Look at what it does to your blood sugar. Oatmeal? Do you have Benin jerry's. It'll have less of an effect and it's got good fat in it. And by the brand juries is not a clean brand by a long shot. There's much better brands of ice cream. And I'm not saying you should eat, use one of them. But if you have continuous glucose mullering,

oatmeal is terrible. And if you do overnight oats, which is even stupider because oats contain antinutrients. And antinutrients, he at least gets rid of some of those things. So you have the blood sugar effects. They're quite often because they're a grain. There's mold mycotoxins that are in them. But worst of all, they contain avonin, which is a protein very similar to gluten that causes inflammation and leaky gut.

And often they're contaminated with gluten, which probably isn't going to affect most people unless you truly have CLAG, but if I get very much gluten at all from American gluten sources, it wrecks my gut. And I know it. I can eat European gluten. So there are issues there, but that may not be the thing, but Avinan is not gluten, but it does the same thing by poking holes in your gut. The other thing that I wrote about in the book before this most recent one is phytic acid. And phytic acid blocks mineral absorption. It binds to zinc, magnesium, iron, calcium. So you have these poor vegans. I was the devout vegan, a devout raw vegan, so I'm talking about myself here when I was obese and

desperate. Well, look at this. This plant has all these minerals in it. My spinach has iron. The anti-nutrients that are present, which is phytic acid and something called oxalic acid, which isn't as high in oatmeal. It doesn't matter if there's minerals in your plants. If you can't absorb them because the plants are actively sucking minerals out of your bones,

there you go. That's why overnight cold oats are even worse than cooked oats, but they both contain high levels of phytic acid. How do I know about this? Because I run a regenerative farm, and I study what animals eat as well as what humans eat. And when you feed high fideic acid grains to chickens or cows, their hooves fall off, their beaks don't form. And these are animals that are designed to be able to eat fidec acid. Humans can't break this down. We don't make fytase, which is the enzyme that breaks it down. So farmers will add fytase to animal feed so the animals can eat things higher in fidec acid than they're supposed to. But

then they'll give humans that and what's do it makes us have osteoporosis it gives us mineral deficiencies guess what happens when your minerals don't work your mitochondria don't work i make two supplements with subgrade labs which is part of one of my companies that i focus on they're the least sexy longevity supplements but the most broadly applicable one of them is called vitamin dake and go to vitamin dakee and the other one's called minerals 101. Oh, and then you drink danger coffee. There's 22 bucks worth of trace and ultratrice minerals in every bag of the coffee. The coffee's 25 bucks a bag because of it and it's really good coffee without mold in it. Why? Because if you just get all the minerals your body needs and you have the fat soluble vitamins at the same time which guide

the minerals in, then your exercise will work, then your meditation will work. Even your NAD pathways work better. So like the least sexy vitamin Dake and minerals 101, it's not timeline. It's not Wonderfield. It's just critical and it's affordable and it's the broadest applicable thing. I'd probably make more money if I did some fancy longevity, whatever, but I have so many companies I work with who I support at the conference. You guys do this cool stuff. I want to get the basics to everybody. If I put it in your coffee, that's awesome. But that's why I do it the way I do, because oats and kale and almonds and spinach and all these superfoods, they are stucking your minerals. And if you said, well, I'm going to be even healthy. I'm going to go to steel-cut oats instead of old oats.

They contain more lectins and they contain oxalates more than rolled oats. And this is consistent in every kind of grain. Brown rice is for very, very poor people. Every rice eating country eats white rice preferentially because the outer part of the rights that has all the fiber, it also has all the arsenic and all the lectins, and it's not good for you. But if you're the lowest of the peasants, there's more calories in the lining of the rice. So they'll give you all the toxins so you can have the calories.

And if you can afford it, you eat the white rice, which has carbs. Not a lot of nutrients. Rice isn't a nutrient source. It's an energy source, right? And then you eat a little bit of meat with it. There's your nutrients. There's your protein. There's your fat.

Right? And you go to wheat. The peasants eat brown bread because they couldn't afford to throw away the brown part that had all the lectins and all the oxalates. White flour has almost no oxalate. Whole wheat flour has huge doses that cause kidney stones. Yes. Right?

70% of kidney stones are caused by plants and a lot of these superfoods. And you get these influencers who just don't have a clue the way I was in my late 20s eating. I've been there. I shattered three teeth from green smoothies and being a vegan because I was stuck my minerals out. Cale, spinach, chard, almonds and sweet potatoes, which I didn't, I recommended those as being better than other things. I talked about oxalates in the Bulletproof Diet, but I didn't control for them as strongly as I should have. And you eat those when you're young, it builds up

over time, and it makes you systemically weak from a mitochondrial level, from a bone level. You do not want to do that. So what do you do? Get rid of the brown parts of your grains. Blant your nuts if you're still going to eat nuts. Eat peely nuts and macadamia nuts. This is really the only two safe nuts, maybe a few walnuts here and there. That's what you do. And the rest of the stuff, yeah, it tastes good.

I don't care. I don't like it. It isn't taste good. I'm like, are you an adult? Like, oh, does heroin taste good? Then I guess you have heroin. Like, don't be dumb. And stop getting offended by a fact about a food.

Like, it's like you owe it something. I just don't get it, man. It's like when I found out and I learned, was like, well, one more thing that's got to go. Let's make a change, you know? I've been really doing a deep forgiveness practice on one food, and I just haven't been successful. It's on kale.

Like, kale is not food, and it keeps trying to pretend like it's food. And I'm getting triggered by this, Dylan. I need help. We'll talk after it. I'll help you out with it. I want to tell you one more thing before we go. You turned me into a coffee snob. I literally started drinking coffee three years ago,

only drinking K cups, and I learned about aeropress and danger, and I found it, and I drink it seven days a week, and you've made me make this an art that I do twice a day, and I hated dark roast, now I love it. And when you have a special come out,

like that Ethiopian one, for example, I bought like 10 tins of that when you came out with it after I tried it, because it was incredible. Wow. Thank you for calling that out. Every two months, I come out with ceremonial grade coffee. Yeah.

And it's like there's $2,000 bottles of wine. This is the highest cupping score, award-winning coffees, and their lab tests of her mold, and they're remineralized. And they come in little tins. It's called ceremonial grade because it's meant for like a conscious coffee sharing Saturday morning with a friend. It's not a daily drinker, just like you might have a glass of wine every now and then, but when you go out for something special, you're going to splurred.

This is that coffee. And every tin has art from a local artist and the reason where the beans are from. And so we're, you know, spreading love. That's a labor of love. But man, coffee is the original longevity compound. It has controlled the evolution of science and consciousness. During the Enlightenment, coffee houses were banned by one of the kings of England because it made people think too much. And it never stopped doing that.

It's incredible. It's been a game changer for me. I gave one up to my mom and I kept nine of those tens of that Ethiopian one. But man, I look forward to those when they come out. So I know you have to run. I like I said I there's like 500 topics I didn't get to but I appreciate so much your time brother like it was incredible talking with you real quick and I'll link everything in the description what's the best way to follow you or to find you what's some of your best ways that people can stay on track with you go to dave asprey.com that's easy Instagram or all the other accounts dave. Asprey and TikTok and whatever your platform is and then go to danger coffee.com yes. And you can use code Bio Lane if you want to save 10% or something like that. I just use that code because I love trolling trolls.

It makes me so happy. I love it. I am so appreciative of your time. Dave, thank you so much, man. Just an honor to have you here. Like that. All right. Thank you.