The Dylan Gemelli Podcast - Episode #75 CHRISTMAS SPECIAL Featuring BEN GREENFIELD!! EVERYTHING and ANYTHING Mind and Body!! THE ULTIMATE Health and Wellness Interview!

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

Welcome to the 75th Episode of the Dylan Gemelli Podcast!!  The Christmas Special featuring BEN GREENFIELD!! This episode covers it ALL.  Dylan presents Ben with a wide array of topics in EVER aspect of health and wellness, mind and body and somehow Ben OVER EXCEEDS the high expectations he carries! There is no wastage of time as Dylan goes straight into the topic of diet with Ben, covering all the bases on diet types, food quality, fasting, macros, calories and everything in between!!  No stone is left unturned on the diet topic!  There is a very transition into heart health, with a very deep discussion into heart health, covering heart disease, how to potentially reverse plaque, different medications, proper blood tests and more!  Ben provides deep insights that will benefit millions!  The cellular health topic is then discussed, which is a favorite of both Ben and Dylan and there is an amazing back and forth of the science and importance and Ben conveys in a manner that is easy to understand for everyone yet digs deep into the science.  Then the conversation goes into the mind and body connection, covering neurological health and then concluding with a deep discussion into faith and GOD.  This episode COVERS IT ALL!  This is an epic conversation that YOU DO NOT WANT TO MISS!!    Note from Dylan: This was one of, if not the MOST informative podcast recordings I have yet to do.  I am extremely BLESSED to be able to speak with some of the most brilliant minds in the world but Ben really blew the rooftop off with his consistency of in depth answers to multitudes of areas of question.  He showed his true level of wide ranging expertise and versatility, with zero hesitation in his answers along with his eloquent speaking tone in an easy to understand manner, yet filled with REAL data to back it up!  ENJOY!!    Check out Ben's homepage  https://bengreenfieldlife.com/   Subscribe to Ben on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/bengreenfieldfitness   Follow Ben on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bengreenfieldfitness/?hl=en     Today's episode is sponsored by TIMELINE   To PURCHASE MITOPURE visit Dylan's landing page and use code DYLAN to save 20% OFF!! https://shop.timeline.com/DYLAN _______________________________________________________________________________ Get the Apollo Neuro for $90 OFF!! USE CODE GEMELLI to save https://apolloneuro.com/gemelli     TONUM supplements for the MIND AND BODY!   USE CODE "DYLAN" to save!!  https://www.tonum.com/DYLAN     THE BREAKTHROUGH MIMIO HEALTH FASTING MIMETIC SUPPLEMENT!  20% OFF with code Gemelli  https://mimiohealth.sjv.io/c/6588260/3323599/30611     TRULY Increase Your NAD LEVELS with WONDERFEEL NMN: https://getwonderfeel.com/?utm_source=DylanGemelli&utm_medium=podcast     MESCREEN: The world's first and only at home mitochondrial efficiency test Save $100 with CODE   DYLAN   https://mescreen.com/cart/47561239626013:1?discount=&ref=DYLAN       HIRE DYLAN ON THE MINNECT APP HERE: expert.minnect.com/@DylanGemelli     Follow Dylan on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok @dylangemelli and PLEASE SUBSCRIBE and leave reviews!!   MAKE SURE TO GO TO DYLAN'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL for MORE video content!!    https://www.youtube.com/@DylanGemelliBiohacking Email Dylan for booking, collaborations and/or to apply for the Dylan Gemelli Podcast [e-mail] Visit Dylan's Homepage https://dylangemelli.com  

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Dylan. I assure you, yourselves will thank you. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Dylan Jameli podcast. And I am on cloud nine today because I have been waiting for my guest for quite a while and we've been trying to work this out.

He's one of the ones that I have wanted for a very long time. So I am super thankful that he got some time with me today because, you know, the schedules with people, it's crazy. but I'm going to give you a little intro, brother. I can't really do you justice, but he does it all. Listen, he's one of the mainstays, and I would argue one of, if not the most influential, I would say at least top two to three in the last at least decade in biohacking, health, fitness, wellness, you name it.

I would definitely put him at my top of my list of go-to people, well-respected, well-renowned. Just quickly, he's a New York Times bestselling author. I'm sure many of you have seen his books. Boundless, he's got this big podcast. He's a former collegiate tennis, water polo, volleyball player. He's a 13-time Iron Man triathlete. He's been voted by the NSCA as America's top personal trainer. He's done it all.

I'm not going to spend the whole podcast talking about his accolades, but my friends, Ben Greenfield. And I suck at baseball and golf. Been there, brother. Hey, man, thanks for coming on here with me today. I had been looking forward to this, like I said, for such a long time. I want to start off with diet. I've been doing a lot of things with diet the past several years, and I've been running into so many different people on the carb side against the carb side, people that want to argue fight over it. Where do you stand on diets and do you have a specific go-to or what you're feeling on the polarizing topic of carbohydrates? Yeah, just come out swinging with an easy question, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Well, as you know, the dogmatism behind diets kind of ranks right up there with religion and politics. Probably not assisted much by the idea that religion and nutrition are often kind of intertwined in some ways.

You know, whether you eat pork and shellfish and whether cows are holy or not. And, you know, all the elements that kind of go into the spiritual side of diet is probably why it's so dogmatic. Or one of the reasons. There's a book that goes back to like the 60s called biochemical individuality. It's based on the idea that human beings, how. different vitamin D excretion rates and different oxalate excretion rates and a different size of the pancreas and the liver or the stomach and the gastrointestinal tract. And when you pair that with this new era that we live in, this era of self-quantification,

where now we know we have, you know, wild variants in genetics, in detoxification capabilities, in methylation capabilities, in blood flow and nitric oxide capabilities. And we also have different microbiomes, possibly parasites, yeast, fungus that may influence our nutrition choices or the impact of those. We have different hormone statuses.

There is no reason for anyone to say there is one perfect diet for all of humankind. And there is no reason for anyone to follow one perfect diet for all of humankind because the you know the rib eye and sauerkraut diet might completely screw over somebody with let's say like over methylation issues who is you know who needs a higher amount of glycogen and carbohydrate due to their physical activity who might even have some kind of like an inflammatory response of saturated fats because they have like i don't know an apo e4 e4 gene or something like that so um i think The best way to go is to test, to self-quantify, and to figure out basing of genetics and your blood work and your activity levels and lifestyle and goals, what diet is going to work best for you.

And then if you just can't afford to do that, you're living paycheck to paycheck, you're listing in your college student on a budget, you could make a pretty good case that, possibly based on human origin in the fertile crescent, I don't know, possibly due to the fact that it's just a diet that's relatively diverse. So it grows the microbiome pretty well.

I would say some semblance of a Mediterranean diet. Yeah, a pretty good idea. And not like the unlimited breadsticks, you know, giant salad bowls, Mediterranean diet. But, you know, a diet rich in omega-3 fatty acids with vegetables, both fermented and raw, and extra virgin olive oil and plenty of omega-3s and nuts and natural sources of cheese and a little bit of red wine here and there.

and all the things that you would tend to see somebody, I don't know, sucking down in sardinia. You know, that seems to work pretty well for somebody who just wants to throw a dart and hope that they hit the right diet. And then the carb piece, I mean, that again is an area that's rife with a need for customization, Dylan. Yes.

So for the most part, being aware of carbohydrate intake and controlling added sugars, especially to some extent, is a good idea. I mean, I wear this blood glucose monitor. It tracks my glycemic variability, how much my blood glucose goes up and down throughout the day. That's more important to me, really, than my average blood glucose is just like how many spikes I get and how long it stays elevated after a meal. Right. And in a sedentary person, in someone managing metabolic disease, like a diabetic condition, even someone with like epilepsy, seizures, post-tenths, etc., you can make a case that, like, a low-carb diet. would be healthy at anywhere from 20 to 50 grams of carbohydrates per day,

a so-called a ketotic approach or ketogenic diet. And then let's say like an Ironman athlete or a crossfitter or even just the average gym junkie or a guy like me who's like working out an hour a day, you know, and then whatever, walking on a treadmill while I'm talking to you and burning a decent amount of calories. You know, for me, and I do this, a low-carb diet is closer to 200 to 300 grams a day. So part of it is who are you and what your lifestyle? What would low carb context be for you?

And when I say 200 to 300 grams per day, I actually time that. So I eat very few carbohydrates most of the day. I'm going to have a little bit of like a handful of blueberries sometimes in a morning smoothie or like half a banana. And so I'm usually having some kind of a great smoothie, you know, like a superfood smoothie for breakfast. I have like a big salad with back to the Mediterranean thing, sardines, anchovies, extra virgin olive oil, seeds, nuts, etc. at lunch. And then dinner tends to be the most widely varying meal of the day, just like socially and logistically. You might be out of a restaurant, you might have friends over, you're hanging out with family. I'd rather have that be the time when I have the most flexibility for macros where I can grab the sweet potato fries and my wife's sourdough bread and, you know, a bunch of, you know, beats and carrots and parsnips and potatoes and maybe a little dark chocolate and yogurt and berries for dessert. And the cool part

about that approach is carbohydrates can also assist with production of serotonin, which then downstream can help to produce melatonin to give you better sleep. The only kickback you hear sometimes with this approach is a lot of people have heard, rightly so that you're more insulin sensitive. in the morning, meaning you would theoretically, from a hormonal standpoint, be better equipped to shove glucose into muscle and liver in the morning versus the evening. But it's pretty easy to induce a temporary state of insulin sensitivity. I recommend somebody does this before or after any meal. You could go for a walk, could lift weights in the early evening before dinner.

You can be like a cold shower or a cold plunge. For me, between like six and seven is about when I'm feeling. finishing up work. So I go like, I go hit a little bit on the pickleball court or play some tennis or a little frisbee golf, hang out with the family, go for a walk and make the last couple phone calls of the day. Oh, yeah, I mean, if you're just kind of like a sedentary slob for the hours leading up to dinner, carbs might actually hit you and cause a little bit of a blood sugar spike. But if you're physically active and you know, you understand the idea of even just like a five to 10 minute pre-dinner and or post-dinner walk, it kind of becomes a moot point and becomes even more.

mooter of a point, if that's a phrase, if you've been restricting carbohydrates the rest of the day, because your muscles, assuming you're physically active, are kind of like a little bit of a metabolic seek for glucose, and they're a little bit deprived at that point in the day. So, you know, long story short, summary of everything I just said is test yourself, self-planify, and customize your diet to you, and if you can't follow some semblance of a Mediterranean diet. strict carbs, but not excessively, unless you're managing some kind of a disease. And if you are able to, time your carbs, are you having more of them in the evening? See, this is one of those times where I like to point out to everybody when you can really tell you're talking to somebody with, like, credibility that's not relying on emotion when they talk about something.

Because when you bring up the fact that it's all person to person specific and customizable, that's just basically everything in life. And when we fall into these traps where you get on these hardcore rants that this is the only way and it has to be like this. And I see people arguing without understanding that there are so many different conditions and people like you said, the way we're training. I mean, I train, I don't know, man, almost three hours a day between cardio one set and then lifting at night. And I don't get enough carbs.

I know it. And like you said, there's situations where it's necessary. So then that brings me to my next question, diet related, because you, I mean, you covered everything so intricately for us. Let's take a look at the fasting side of things. I've done a lot of study on this in terms of the cellular health, the long-term longevity, and I'm very spiritual. So as you pointed out, you know, that goes back to the beginning of time. So there's reasoning for it. What's your thoughts on fasting in general?

Do you incorporate it? And if you do, how do you go about that with somebody that's training heavy? Yeah, that's funny. You mentioned prayer. There's actually an old book. It's called something like the atomic power of prayer and fasting. Cheesy title, but it goes into how a deeper spiritual connection with God and a deeper prayer life can result from bouts of fasting that are intentionally built for a spiritual habit or purpose. I love it. Which, of course, you know, most people know that a lot of religions have some kind of practices of fasting that's woven in. So my opinion on fasting and then my opinion on fasting for, what did you say, someone who's very physically active? Yeah, at top level athlete or someone trained on like we do. Yeah, yeah, I mean, when you're looking at a top level athlete, first of all, just to touch on that first, you know, most athletes do need to hear that performance is not necessarily synonymous with health. Right.

I spent 20 years, as you mentioned briefly in the bio, doing all sorts of different sports at a pretty high level and then Ironman Traathlon and Spartan Radio. and adventure racing. And there would be some weeks where I was exercising like 20 plus hours. And, you know, races where I'd be going more than three days and at least 10 plus hours. And while those kind of things are great for character development, for endurance, for perseverance, for climbing your own personal Mount Everest, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking that extreme exercise is long term going to be healthy for you or in. increase longevity, right? It's interesting because the true definition of temperance is not complete restriction or abstinence from a certain activity, but instead the ability

to be able to modulate or self-control your usage of it and achieve a so-called Goldilocks zone. So exercise, you know, temperance is prudent. And if you look at research on, let's say, cardiovascular exercise and its effects on cardiovascular health, there is a Goldilocks zone. Once you exceed about 75 minutes of very high intensity exercise, which barely anybody achieves anyways, but there are some crossfitters, some extreme athletes who would exceed 75 minutes of what would be considered if you're using zones like zone four, zone five cardio, you know, above lactic acid threshold on a weekly basis. And once you exceed about 150 minutes or so of moderate intensity exercise, which a lot of cardio bunnies, you know, in frowny face,

treadmill people at the gym do. You start to see arterial stiffness and early onset atherosclerosis. You know, it's just inducing too much inflammation without enough recovery. Yep. And there's some people who are like, wait, like human beings are primal creatures. We were built to move, baby. We should be like moving all day long. Yes. But, you know, for anybody who's gone like hunting or has a garden that you're out in during the day or even has manual labor, like construction work or painting or fence building or something, you're not like running from a lion all day long during those activities. They're starting, you're stopping, you're at a low level intensity.

It's aerobic and conversational like I'm talking to you right now. And so I'm really talking about the stuff that actually kind of beats you up. So if you are back to the fasting piece fitting into that category of an elite exerciser a gym junkie, an athlete, then you also need to accept the facts that since performance is not synonymous with longevity, some of the things that you're doing to support performance would also not be those things that have been studied for longevity.

And fashion could be one of those. Right. Extensive calorie restriction and even compressed feeding windows, which can hinder your ability to be able to fuel enough to restore muscle glycogen, to be able to get enough proteins and amino acids in for repair and recovery, to be able to hit an anabolic window. It just becomes more difficult, not impossible,

but more difficult when you're fasting, all the more so if you, like you mentioned, Dylan, are like a two-day type of athlete. So I think that for a high performer, it's reasonable for males to go for anywhere from 12 to 14 hours, and I think that's pretty doable. Yeah. As a daily intermittent fast.

You would even still be semi-breaking that fast if you had an early morning workout. So that would look like you're going to finish eating dinner at 8 p.m. And then let's say your workout starts at like, I don't know, what would say it's late? We'll say it's like 9 a.m. Right? So you're starting your workout with a 13-hour intermittent fasting window.

You plan on having breakfast around whatever, 10-15, when you get out of the gym and get your hands on a smoothie or a post-workout meal, well, even then, you could battle some of the catabolic effects of that fasting window, which you might have been doing for longevity, maybe a gut break, et cetera,

by using ketones pre-workout and by using essential amino acids pre-workout. And I actually have a lot of my clients and athletes do this. I'll give them a little bit of the baby benefits of a short-term intermittent fast, and then they're doing like a shot of ketone IQ, 1-3 butane dial, or a shot of like ketone aid, beta-hydroxybutyrate, or some variant of a ketone,

which isn't going to impact blood glucose, and arguably not only keeps your body in a fasted state, but magnifies the benefits of fasting, and then essential amino acids, especially leucine-en-rich essential amino acids, to be able to stay anabolic with a, very small rise in insulin with minimal calories. So that's how you would do it if you were,

if you were kind of an exerciser who wanted the benefits of fasting, you do like a 12-hour intermittent fast, 14 at the most, and then you do ketones and amino acids pre-fasted workout. If you're a female at window shortens, spitwell specifically if you're a pre-menopausal female, paramedopausal, post-menopausal females, It'd be everything I just said. Pre-menopausal females would be closer to 10 hours.

You tend to see a down-regulation of chispeptin, which is an upstream hormone that will assist with fertility regulation and endocrine regulation if you are going for longer than 10 hours regularly as an overnight intermittent fast. So if you're even more of an issue if you're a lean female, females should be a slightly shorter intermittent fasting window. And then, you know, the number one thing that people who are familiar with fasting might be thinking is, well, Ben, I heard you get all the benefits of fasting once you exceed like 16 hours.

Real autophagy starts to kick in. And that is true. But you don't need to do that daily. And what I do with my more active clients is we do one to two times per month, a 24-hour dinner-to-dinner fast. We're like quitting on Saturday evening. Don't eat again until Sunday evening dinner. And we try to time that on a recovery day.

So if Sunday's a recovery day, then you're not going to need a ton of glycogen. You're not going to need a ton of anabolic factors like protein and amino acids. Just quit face-stuffing on Saturday, get your 24-hour cycle in a couple of times a month. And that could be pretty good for cellular autophagy and cleanup without the stress for an active person of more regular fast and periods, more regular long fasting periods. Awesome. Great breakdown. I'm going to touch on a multitude of things that you kind of touched on there. One thing I'll say that I understand now, which I wish I did earlier, was the abusive amount of cardio that you said, and I want to convey that double time that overdoing it like anything else can have obviously an

adverse effect. I did a calcium score a couple years ago and found plaque and thought, how is even possible? And I think a lot of that correlation is training in Zone 4 too many years, too long and doing it for over extended periods of time. And I actually found a low ejection fraction on top of it. And so it's been this years of study now for me on the heart and learning about like several things that you're talking about and how to combat and overcome that and then teach others that are abusing themselves that think they're doing good or in fact they're harming long term. So I definitely want to get into some heart things with you,

but I do want to touch on something else first. By the way, the one stating grace of the type of plaque accumulation that occurs with hard exercises that it does tend to be more stable and tightly packed. So that is nice. It's usually less due to excess fat accumulation and foam cell production

and a little bit more of like a tight, packed inflammatory response. Still an issue for buildup long term. Less of an issue than someone with unstable plaque. Let's stick with that then because those are fabulous points. And I want to get into that with you because I think you're extremely well versed. And I like to think now after what I've gone through the last three or four years that I can go back and forth with you on this. So this will be good.

Let's talk about that. So you said stable plaque and then obviously the fear is the soft plaque. And so we're trying to, A, avoid. that and B learn how to figure out how we can even find that in comparison to the hard plaque. And so for me, we go in stages, right? We got the calcium score. We got a CTNGO and you can get a little bit more intricate. Like I was in there and I had a catheter done and checked because I had a bout of cart palpitations. But then we go to the clearly test, which can actually show you the differentiation between soft and hard plaque. Can you kind of get into the danger and

of soft plaque a little bit and then how we can figure out what is what and what we need to look for. Yeah, a few subtle nuances on the diagnostics piece of it. You know, most people just do the lipid panel, which is it could give you clues, but, you know, lipid panel isn't necessarily reflective of tissue cholesterol deposition. It shows you what's floating around in the blood, and there is some correlation, but I have seen, and by the way, I am not a doctor. Do not take any of this as medical advice. Right. I've seen people with very good lipid panels present with elevated plaque scores.

Me too. And vice versa. People with pretty shitty lipid panels who don't appear to have significant plaque accumulation. That's why, you know, unlike full body MRI, which is questionable as far as like necessary diagnostic imaging, largely because of the amount of false positives, you'd find with it some type of diagnostic imaging for the heart, I think is pretty smart. Now, the easiest, lowest hanging fruit would just be a carotid ultrasound. Yep. There are websites like basolabs.com where you can find a technician. It's called a CIMT, carotid into a media thickness score.

And it's just the non-invasive ultrasound on either side of the neck that can correlate with decent, not perfect accuracy, but decent accuracy to what's going on in the heart. Like calcium in the carotid can kind of indicate what's going on in the heart. And then you step up to a basic calcium scan score, which a lot of people are familiar with. or a gun, which kind of gives you a score, just like it sounds like. It'll tell you, hey, you have calcium or you don't have calcium. And it can differentiate visually a little bit between stable versus unstable, soft versus hard.

But it's not the greatest. It's kind of like the old school scan compared to what you were just describing Dylan, which would be a CT angiography, and especially a form of CT angiography called the clearly scan. This would give you not only stable versus unstable plaque, but with pretty good precision, the location

where that plaque resides and the amount of infiltration in the vasculature. And there are some concerns about radiation from that test, especially if it's done on a repeated basis. The faster

the machine, the less radiation. So the really fast machine, you get less radiation. than I cross, you know, country flight to New York City from California. The slower machines, you could make a case for, you know, taking some iodine afterwards and not doing it any more often than maybe a year and a half.

But even if it's doing it once, you're going to get pretty good information about the plaque, where it resides, whether it's stable versus unstable. And this is all interesting, but I think what's more relevant and important is what to

do if you find plaque? That's a million dollar question. Like, what do you do? Because if you find the plaque, it is going to progress. You know, it can be stable or unstable. If it's unstable, if it's soft, it will progress more quickly, but it will progress no matter what. You know, it'll almost act like a little bit of a fly trap for additional deposition over time. The gold standard in alopathic medicine for plaque regression, and I don't really have a problem with this approach, although it can create some side effects and it can be expensive for some if insurance doesn't cover it, would be a low-dose statin combination like Zetamib and Razivastatin. That would be an example.

I forget it's five of one, ten of the other in terms of milligrams. I forget which. And that's a pretty low dose of a statin. And the only reason I'm saying this is there's actual research on plaque regression with that combination. And then often that would be combined with what's called a PCSK-9 inhibitor, which basically upregulates expression of LDL receptors and gives LDL more to attach to. So it has a black deposition that's going to occur. The issue would be PCSK9 can be expensive.

And I personally would be, and this is pure theory. I just wonder what happens systemically if we, upregulate LDL receptors long term because that would mean less cholesterol available potentially for things like the ender consistent, the brain, areas that we know if we haven't swallowed the high cholesterol is bad for you tagline, hook line and sinker might be impacted with long term mute from the PCSK9, but I don't know. That's pure theory. And then with the low dose statin, this is less of an issue, but it's still an issue. There is, some risk for co-enzyme Q10 stripping and muscle thorness.

So you definitely want to use ubiquinol or co-Q10. Or kind of top of the totem pole based on research by Dr. Barry Tan would be something like anato extract, which is kind of like mixed tachycoprules and tachynolds that can help to stave off co-Q10 degradation even better than just taking co-Q10 or ubiquinol. So that would be like the allopathic approach, right? low-dose statin combo with PCSK-9, sometimes by itself, sometimes PCSK-9 by itself. You could make a case for any three of those having an impact on plaque regression. A downsides for what I just mentioned plus the expense.

The natural approach, even though there's a lot of things that might be good, like red yeast rice extract, so-called major statin, niacin, magnesium, and magnesium, even things that aren't supplemental or oral nutraceuticals like red light therapy, which would help to structure water in the cells and assist with membrane fluidity. Exercise, of course, to a certain extent, you know, within reason. Pulse's electromagnetic field therapy, which would reduce red blood cell adhesions and assist with blood flow. Anything that would increase nitric oxide production, even from a dietary standpoint, right, beads, beat, root, watermelon, you know, arugula.

Assuming you have a clean mouth, right? Mouthwash can nuke some of the bacteria that assist with conversion of dietary nitrates and a nitric oxide. So they'll use mouthwash excessively. But, you know, a nitric oxide rich diet, you know, a little bit of a baby to dalafil, you know, like a baby Cialis or baby Viagra, like sylidophil. But I would say top of the totem pole in terms of plaque regression, if you did want to go to the natural root, would be matokinase and lumbroclin.

kinase. Natokinase is the easiest to find in supplemental form. Supplements only have it at about 1,000 or 2,000 units. It would be hard for us to find any data showing an impact on anything less than 8,000 units. So you've got to take a lot of natokinase if you're going to use that as a strategy. But that would be of all the things I've seen the best. I'm going to throw this in there too.

I spent a couple of years digging into this for my own personal interest in use, and I worked with the company called Vitabom. They created a product called HeartHealt, and it has about nine of the different nutraceuticals that I identified as being effective for plaque regression. If you did want to go to the natural word, I realize I sound like a fox darting in the henhouse right now, but I'd be remiss not to mention it. And then recently increased, based on the data, I was seeing the natokinase dosage from 2000 up to 10,000. So that's like a clinically affected dose, arguably, of natokinase in it now. So, you know, some things that you can do, either going the natural route or the pharmaceutical route, paired with some of those lifestyle factors. And I think it is important. I mean, and a lot of women are like, well, these are two dudes talking about having a heart attack.

It's even called the widow maker, right? Yes, yeah. Paramenopausal, postmenopausal women have a shockingly increased significant risk for heart disease. And so this is something older females in particular should be worried about too. Brother, had I not checked at 41 years old, this would have been progressing, progressing, progressing, and I would have had no clue because I am like a full-blown seven-day-a-weeker almost and going nonstop. I take, you know, rest, but I mean, I go, go, go, and I would have never had a clue. And so I'm thankful I did. I want to run a couple things by you that I found and that I was told.

And I'm smiling at a lot of things you're saying because I'm like, man, he's dialed in. So one, the natokinase, there's a one, and I don't work with them by any stretch, but natovena was the one I use. And they have a higher count on their pills. And I use that one. So I do like 12,000 a day was what I was doing because I read in studies. that was where it was really effective on actually reversing plaque. And Poma Grant used another one that I have found because I had gone back and I have been able to reverse plaque. But my situation was an elevated LP little A and it was up to 330, which is, you know, insanely high.

My dad died of a heart attack at 59. And so reversing that is not so easy. I've been able to get mine down to in the 90s, which is pretty miraculous. God's grace. And a lot of classically trained physicians will tell you that LPA is not modifiable at all. I disagree. And for the same reason, I disagree with people who say VO2 Max is not very modifiable. Yeah.

I would say by traditional methods, yes, possibly even just by following a normal heart healthy diet. Yes. But by introducing, did you do like high dose niacin for the L.P. Little A or? Did for a while. I started to get really, really elevated liver because I was slamming that with. of the red yeast rice so I backed off both got my liver under control and what I I am on PCSK 9 of repatha and then I take the CEPA I dropped the statin completely because I wasn't enjoying some of the the feeling with it but I had they had dropped my cholesterol into the 30s

and I panicked and I had now with the higher animal fats and you know more good clean fats and saturated fats, I'm back up to 80 LDL, which I know some people panic and I'm like, listen, that's actually quite good even with, you know, having some plaque considering I got my HDL up that high. But the, I went to the Mayo Clinic and they told me using PCSK9s would be bad practice. And I was just looking at them like, thanks for making me drive three hours to waste my time. But I am thoroughly with you on everything you said. The natural things that you said, the baby aspirins. I'm going to talk to you after about that product you mentioned, but I think the point here is that looking at your heart, even if you think you're too young, is of the utmost

importance. When would you tell people to start really getting into it and looking at it? If you have a family history of cardiovascular disease and you're a man, I would start as early as 30. And again, I'm not a doctor, but that would be my recommendation. And women is tougher to say, I mean, I would say at least right around paramedopause symptoms setting in. But, and this is a can of worms, dude. You know, now we have athlete dropping dead on the field of practice at an increasing rate due to some type of vascular infiltration or inflammation. It appears that the most likely culprit is spike protein.

Yeah. And due to them either getting COVID or getting a COVID vaccination. So these are young people, right? And COVID spike protein is not going to show up as a plaque issue. That's kind of a problem is you're going to be more like looking at inflammatory markers, cytokines, HSCRP, etc. But now it's like, gosh, like, you know, just in terms of checking on heart health overall, I would say 30 is a good time as a guy to really start paying attention to it and paramedipause for women. But then if you've had COVID and it was pretty bad or you've done the vaccination, especially

a full series of the vaccinations, you should probably start tracking inflammatory markers in particular even earlier than that, like pretty much ASAP. It's difficult. I'll tell you, I've had COVID, I think seven or eight times, no vaccination. But when I had the low rejection fraction, I related it to that. But all of my inflammatory markers are like zero. So it's kind of an anomaly. I'm trying to figure out what it is.

I still feel like there's COVID reaction there somehow. I suspect that beyond inflammation, there might be an impact on arterial elasticity. Yeah, I think so. That is measurable. Typically, you can use like a photonic, like a photo biomodulation measurement for that. There's some like frequency scanners that will do it. You know, and it's kind of tricky because part of it comes to just like getting the spike protein out. And that would literally involve flying to Vienna or London or Tijuana,

like at least those three places have clinics where they have a blood filtration unit. You know, I've done it. Yeah. I'm laying in a hospital bed for two or three days and just pulls your blood out and passes it through a filter designed to be like a sticky fly trap for the spike protein. The one I used is called the Sarah filter. And it was designed specifically for this. And then it goes back into the body. Yeah, for sure.

That's good to know. not like thousands, thousands of people aren't going to go pay but it's like, depending on how you're doing it like anywhere from like $15,000 to $3,000 to do that. Everything is just like when you brought up the Repath, you know how hard it was for me to get like the insurance

to cover Repath? They have to literally elevate your triglycerides and you have to be allergic to a stat. I mean, it's a list of things to get it approved. And it's not a super expensive. Like $3,000 a month on average. Yeah, it's insane. If you do good RX even,

and it's like 750. It's just unaffordable. So that sucks for people that are really trying. And then for me, I've already got ultra low blood pressure. So when you're doing something to fix your ejection fraction, you're very limited on what you can take. So these entrustos and these other, I can't do it. I tried.

And so Jardians has been the one I've been relying on right now with deribos, high ubiquinol, like very high ubiquinol. And so I have an echocardiogram follow-up. a couple weeks to measure it again because it dropped to 45, which is not heart failure, but clearly low. So which dropped to 45? My ejection fraction. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, dude, it's, and I swear it's COVID related, but I want to talk to you about some cellular. Fawn before we get shadow band, bro. No, right. No, I want to. So I, you know, like I told you off camera, I spent decades just really.

and fitness and bodybuilding and, you know, more focused on that nutrition. But I started working with Timeline over a year ago, and I really got into the cellular and biology side, cellular health and talking about that. So I want to talk to you about the importance of cellular health. And for me, it's like all disease and everything health-related really starts there with ourselves. How important is it to you to take care of cellular health, mitochondria health, on your list of things?

because, you know, people talk about the gut, people talk about so many different things, but I think everything really starts and ends with cellular health. What do you think? Well, I mean, you kind of cheated there because the gut is cellular health. Well, yeah. I mean, like, it's kind of like, how do I not agree with your question? Because cellular health and mitochondrial health are basically the foundational principles behind every organ system, because every organ system has cells and almost all of them,

mitochondria. and so it's important. And I think that a lot of people are aware, at least remotely aware of the type of things that would improve in particular the health of the cell membrane or the electron flow or electrochemical balance across the cells, including the electron transport chain and the mitochondria. Let's name a few just to make sure people have these bases covered.

So for the cell membrane proper fluidity and rigidity, we kind of briefly touched on this with the cholesterol piece, but it would be avoiding a completely fatphobic approach to diet, eating back to earlier in this podcast in a more Mediterranean fashion. So you can go out and you can get a test called Omega Quant, which is just basically an Omega Index score. and it'll show you a percentage of your omega fatty acids, and it's a ratio of omega-3 to omega-6s. And you want a percentage, preferably at eight or higher. Even though the reference range cutoff is at four, I think you can make a pretty strong case for being at 8% or above.

So you would achieve this by getting a good balance of fats in the diet and in particular prioritizing omega-3 fatty acids. And if you don't get a lot of them from your diet, and one to two grams of fish all the day. Next part would be quelling a reactive oxygen species that would occur in response to mitochondrial energy production. You mentioned the gut, and the cool thing is this strategy is a one-two combo

for both the gut and for that reactive oxygen species quelling, and that would be dietary diversity, right? We live in the salad as a lettuce, you know, many carrots, tomato, and ranch dressing culture. But when you increase the plant diversity in particular that you take in, not only to you develop a more robust microbiome,

but you expose yourself to a higher amount of the flavonals and polyphenols that help to quell the reactive oxygen species and to even the plant defense mechanisms that increase your own endogenous antioxidant production. This is why I'm a bigger fan if someone were to follow it like a carnivore diet of something like the modified version of it, where you're doing a carnivore diet, but with fermented vegetables. kimchi, sourcrow, etc.

Or, I mean, you could also use one of these like reds powders, greens powders, whatever, but you're missing out on that aspect of dietary diversity with something like a carnivore diet. And paradoxically, the more you limit your intake of things like, you know, gluten, lectins, A2 casein from dairy, et cetera, the less robust your microbiome population becomes and the less able you are to digest those foods. Hence, parents who heavily restrict peanuts with their children have older children with peanut allergies, parents who excessively restrict gluten with their children, have older children with gluten allergies. And I'm not saying, like, you know, if you paint the back of the toilet seat after you go out for pizza and you have total, you know, actual allergies or

severe intolerances to, like, dairy or bread or pizza, I don't eat it. But if you excessively restrict dietary diversity or even don't just like go and seek out some extra things like shoots and sprouts and microgreens and eight different things on your salad instead of three you are going to short yourself in terms of flavanol polyphenol intake dietary and microbiome diversity so it'll be the next thing to think about the next would be down to the electrochemical piece to maintain that proper charge you do need adequate minerals am on a cropping and fertilizer use can restrict, and I'm not just pulling us on my ass,

you actually do see restricted mineral production in plants that are heavily sprayed and plants that are grown in stripped soil. So we're not getting as many minerals in the average diet. So using things like trace liquid minerals, using really, really good salt and salting your food, using electrolytes, all the more so if you're using like really good water purification,

because that will pull some of the minerals out. But being really cognizant of adding minerals back to your food, eating mineral rich fruit, of course, you know, eat organic when you can, or at least eat, you know, non-urbicide pesticide pesticide spray, even if it's not certified organic. And then just basically add a lot of minerals back into your diet. And then the last thing would be there are certain elements of nature that can assist with that electrochemical balance or with the activity of the electron transport chain and thus mitochondrial energy production and electrochemical balance across the cell membrane.

Some of the biggies you'd see kind of big in the biohacking world right now. Holtz electrical magnetic field mats or coils that you lay on, stretch on, sit on, et cetera, PEMF. Grounding and earthing, like going outside barefoot, using a grounding mat or an earthing mat, wearing grounding shoes, et cetera. Every time lightning strikes the surface of the planet, or solar radiation bombards the surface of the planet, It collects these ions.

There's transdermal connectivity when your skin touches the earth, touches the beach, jumps in the ocean, whatever. So that's another way to charge up the body. Sunlight specifically, you know, this is why you see such a surge in infrared saunas and red light panels and red light beds and photo biomodulation is a technical term for it. Those spectrums of light are well absorbed by different protein compilions. flexizine or mitochondria and can increase activity of the electron transport chain and thus ATP production of like a plant would photosynthesize right so and I'm not saying you can live on sunlight for those guys but I could definitely help out with with energy production and mitochondrial and cellular help um but focus on that and to become full circle I would say just to name a few

the basics, good fat intake, especially from omega-3 or Mediterranean-style fats, good dietary diversity. Pay attention to a lot of these variables like earthing, grounding, PMF, sunlight, etc. And then good mineral intake. I'll tell you, Ben, I spent, I was a fashion model of my 20s, and I've done so much work on camera. You had a little bit of a zoo lander look about you. Not anymore. I'm older now, but I've struggled with like just body dysmorphine eating disorder, even as a nutritionist. It's probably why I started studying nutrition so young. And I, you brought up the fear of fats and I'll tell you, I lived the last 20, 25 years of my life in that fat phobic eating 15, 20 grams of fat a day till about a year ago. And when I made that shift, I'm up to like 130 grams of fat now. And I'm telling you, man, like my health,

my clarity, my ability to sit and focus, even when I don't sleep enough and the overall feeling and the skin, just everything. I mean, it has changed my life. And it's not like I didn't know it, but I'm glad you brought it up because I like to tell people like my struggle so they know what a mistake. And also, I'm pissed off that I wasn't cooking and Kerry Golden getting all these food that enjoyed my food for so long, you know, but chello, yeah. Man. But, you know, just the amount of avocado and whole eggs. I was eating like all these just egg whites, low fat yogurt. It's just a garbage diet. And you think you're doing well and you're not. You're actually hurting yourself and hindering yourself. And it's, I'm glad you brought it up, man. I really am.

What's satiating too? Jeez. I'm never angry during the day anymore or short wicked or every 30 minutes getting up to go take a bite of peppers and onions. Like, you know, that type of thing. It's just, it's insane. So thanks for bringing that up, man. I appreciate that. You're covering every base when I ask a question, and it's really nice. I do want to talk to you about the mind side.

So like I said, I'm a spiritual guy. I really am focusing on the mind-body connection and lining up our neuroside, Vegas nerve stimulation with our health side. But I also argue that if you're not really spiritually healthy, it's really hard to be overall healthy. But what is your feeling on the mind-body core? connection and bringing that all together.

And how do you kind of view that and look at it? Yeah, the vagus nerve is a really good. Perfect example. Right. So now you can use a ring or a wristband or a chest strap to measure your heart rate variability. It is basically an indication of the vagal nerve activation of the pacemaker cells of the heart. Right.

You have multiple cranial nerves, one cranial nerve, the vagus nerve, snakes to the body, innervates various organs and it has branches of the sympathetic, the fighter flight, the parasympathetic, rest or digest branch, when working in good interplay would cause robustness of the pacemaker cells of the heart such that there is high variability between beats, right? B'bump, 1.1.1 milliseconds, b'bomb, 0.99 milliseconds, b'bomb, 0.985. and if you see a low variability, that can be indication that your nervous system is kind of flat, kind of beat up, maybe stress, in some cases overtrained.

So the vagus nerve, like you mentioned, is something that can play into a physical treatment of the mind-body connection, meaning that there are things that you can do to strengthen that connectivity between the vagus nerve and the heart, to strengthen the balance between sympathetic and parasympathetic. Many things people would be familiar with as coming out of like the hippie, esoteric, woo-woo yoga world, but it would be things like meditation, chanting, singing, humming, gargling, yoga, breath work. All of these do a pretty good job increasing HRV. And any or all of those would fit well. And I would even say be crucial, at least present for some of them, for an overall, really good level of both physical and mental fitness.

There are other newer, more technological devices that can stimulate the vagus nerve. They make electrical handheld devices like the True Vega or the Who list that you can hold up to your neck or that kind of stimulate the, what's called the auricular branch of the vagus nerve underneath the ear, increase your HRV within just a few minutes, which is great if you're nervous, if you are about to get on an airplane or want to fall asleep more quickly or wake up and can't get back to sleep.

There are also physicians who, for people with really poor HRV and even things like PTSD, who will do a stellate gangling nerve block, which is basically like an injection of an area around the vagus nerve bilaterally on either side of the neck, And that's bringing out the big guns, obviously, but you can even go in with a needle and actually stimulate the vagus nerve that way.

So a lot of different ways to do it, but people should be aware of the vagus nerve. I can measure it and the fact that using both kind of like ancient wisdom and modern science, you could stimulate it. And then you brought up prayer, and it's interesting because the spiritual side of things

is something that, that probably because the fitness and health world can be so materialistic, is not addressed quite as much. You know, not only is it's something that doesn't feel immediately palatable in terms of the health effects that it produces, but it can be something that is a little bit more confusing in terms of where to start. And often very dogmatic, right? Like, well, I'm going to be religious.

What do you? Hindu, Islam, Christian, you know, like, you know, and so, you know, then that. whole kind of can of worms gets opened up. No matter which way you look at it, you cannot deny the impact that has been shown in research, that prayer has on health, that some type of extrinsic religious experience like church attendance and being a member of some type of a religious body and even like group worship has on health. That intrinsic religiosity has on health, right? Belief in a greater purpose for your life. Belief in an intelligence that exists outside of you. a higher being that has your best purpose in mind and even has your life, not in a robot

autonomous way, but in a goodwill way, has your life kind of like planned out for you? That no matter what you're going through, you can cast your hopes upon that greater being. And there actually is a plan written for your life. And if you look at religions of salvation, such as Christianity, even a so-called way out, right? Like the ability to be able to just cast all your cares upon a figure like Jesus. So you have no more guilt and no more shame and you're not expected to be good on your own, but you're just basically doing it based on the path that that deity created for you by God stepping out of eternity into humanity and being crucified, taking on sins,

and then you're able to just pass your sins at the foot of that cross. And, you know, I have books about this, like Indoor and Fit Soul. I have a journal called the Spiritual Disciplines Journal. And the reason for that is that I was kind of at the tippy top of the world from a physical fitness, even a business fitness and mental fitness standpoint, like 10 years ago, but I was very unhappy on the inside. And I think I was experiencing what many, many people experienced and even many ancient philosophers experience. you know, C.S. Lewis, Pense's, Augustine, these guys all referred to this eternal hole in the soul,

this gnawing for something that's greater outside of us. You know, as a Disney princess might say, you know, there must be something greater out there. This idea that we are created as eternal beings and until we connect to that eternity that's outside of us, there's always that gnawing, that there's something missing, something unfulfilling. And so in business, $10 million needs to become a hundred million needs to become a billion and in fitness no matter how fit you are and whatever pinnacle that you achieve or however many iron man's you've done like it never quite feels like you've made it like it like it's not as fulfilling as you thought it would be and you could just throw anything at that eternal whole sex and money and cars and homes and fame and power

and until you actually fill the eternal gnawing in your soul with something eternal which would be like belief in a higher power and you know some type of intrinsic religious experience preferably come out with an extrinsic religious experience with an unbiased as a Christian I think the most powerful of those would be like actually like saying a prayer that to God that you can't do it on your own you realize that you aren't able to do this of your own power

but that you know that God has created a way for you to achieve happiness and eternal salvation through Jesus Christ. And when you say that prayer and it becomes like that simple, then all of a sudden your entire life changes. And it's not like you trying to become good all the time and trying to be better all the time, but it's as though you are equipped and enabled and supported

to do the best job that you can, but there's not guilt and fear and shame over failure. Instead, it's just you being helped up by God and by that belief in Jesus to do what it is that. you know you've been called to do. And then all those things, like the money and the sex and the cars and the homes and the fitness, all of a sudden they actually kind of become paradoxically fulfilling, but not in fulfilling in a way that you just want to chase after more and more of them. It's like, oh, I've got enough. I can be happy now. And it's not like you lose your desire to

pursue greatness or to pursue what it has you've been called to pursue in terms of just your impact here on this planet. But it feels less like. grasping at straws and more like waking up in the morning, happy to do that, happy you're about to let just roll up your sleeves and do what it is that God is put on your plate for that day. So long story short, long answer I know, but I would say if anything, since our bodies are going to fade and our bones are going to become porous and our muscles are going to be like beef jerky at the end of the day, that the spiritual fitness is the most important thing because your soul is like the one bright, eternal spark that will go on to

exist for better or worse for eternity. So that's the part you should care about the most. I, dude, like you've, you've been so insightful and you've shared so much, but what you just did right there for me, and I hope for everybody, is by far in a way the most impactful. You know, what you said there, if you looked at me on paper seven, eight years ago, you would have thought I was like, had it all, right? I mean, making six figures a month, three, four cars in my drive, arcade games in my house like everything a dude would want you know shoe collection and i'm telling you ben every night i'd go i'd look at my wife when i get into bed and i and i'd just be sad miserable empty like i felt like what what is it i can't feed myself enough shit that i'm

buying and doing and what i'm like why am i just so off every day every night and when i really became god first and i stopped worrying about everything just let it happen and fall into place It'll come if it's supposed to and if it's not. And you know, you stop taking money from everybody throwing at you and selling out here and there and just doing what's good and right. Every single thing for me has fallen right into place as it should. And now I'm doing what I was put here to do. And I don't even worry about it. I don't wonder what's next or what nothing.

I'm stressed when I get on a flight or something if I'm going to be late. But in general, that feeling that you. you just described is where for me, and I think for a lot of people, is it just completely changes. And that's when the whole world will open up to you. And then you can really become healthy and happen. Yeah. It's not, it's not a magic prosperity switch, right? No. We're not talking about, like, thinking you will grow rich because sometimes people hear you and I talk and like, oh, wait, all I have to do is like become religious and all of a sudden, you know, everything just clicks and, you know, making the money I make and getting the job on. It's not like that. Like, your problems

don't disappear, but what I would more accurately define it as is a contentedness switch. Being contented is not synonymous with being happy. It's not like you're just like laughing and cruising through life all the time. Being contented is essentially that feeling that no matter what, no matter what you're going through, you know, things are going to get better and you're right where you're supposed to be and all you're supposed to do is be in that moment, trust God, and do the very best job you can without despairing. And the only way to really do that is to actually, like, know that God is on your side and have a God that you can talk to. That's it. And when people ask, like, how do I pray?

It's really, it's just a conversation with God is all it is and turning it over to him. One of the things that I've learned to embrace that's very hard, and it's still hard. I'm sure you probably deal with this too, is accepting like adversity, but understanding why it happened and then seeing later on time and time again, wow, this happened because then it set me up for this or it helped me do this. It shaped my future. Right. I mean, yeah, adversity is multimodal. Adversity can be God keeping you humble, right? Giving you some type of a health issue so that you become that asshole podcaster who has it all figured out. And all of a sudden, you go farther away from God because all of your health problems are solved and you're just a, you know, a walking

picture of perfection. And God sometimes puts you through adversity so that you, you are more empathetic towards what other people are going through. Yeah. Right. He might have a period of time where you go through financial distress just to open your eyes up to being able to help others when you have financial wealth to go around. Or he might put you through a sickness so that you're a little more willing to take flowers to somebody's in the hospital or take care of their dog or be there for them in some way.

And then finally, and this is, of course, the age-old question. I don't know if it's a can of worms or you should even open up towards the end here, but I'll briefly name it. There is, you know, this idea, well, why would God allow anything bad to happen in the first place? You know, and some of the reasons that I've just described are the reasons. But then the last reason, and this is probably the hardest one for people to swallow is, well, God's God, right? It made everything.

You wouldn't even be alive right now if God had men. God does kind of call the shots, right? We don't know what kind of plan God has in mind, but God certainly does. And who are we to question that? We know that God draws straight lines with crooked sticks. And that's the hard part of being about being a puny little human is there is an intelligent being outside of you. And sometimes the way that they decide to pull off an incredible thing for the universe is not the way you would have done it. Exactly.

And you don't question it. And if everything was just the same every day, then what would the point of even be living? If we were all the same and nothing ever changed, there has to be failure with success. There has to be bad and good. Mad and good, or else what would we have? There has to be evil with free will. Exactly. Like, you know, God could have made us little robot automaton

to just, like, worship him all day. And don't get me wrong, it would be great. But instead, God gave us free will, and we get to decide what we want to do. And you know what? Sometimes we make the wrong choices, and that's why there's evil. That's where there's sin.

And that's why the message of forgiveness is so beautiful. That's right. I know you've got to go here in a minute. And I got one more for you, if you can, really quick. It's a quick one. And then just want to say thank you again. I valued this. Let's do this.

Your top five staple foods that you have every single day or incorporate most often in your diet. How about I give you my grocery shopping list when I travel? Do it. That's it. Do it. Because I have like the Whole Foods grocery shopping list or even just the Rosars or whatever. Let's go to do this from memory. I'm going to hit the big ones.

Okay. If I'm going to anything, it's because it's not important. So this would be like, you know, the person who says, you know, because I have clients who will say this sometimes. I'm like, no, no, no, they'll be like, oh, I've been traveling for the past 10 days and I just went off the bandwagon. You know, I've been youth out and couldn't find any good food. And so I typically get the Whole Foods order in once I know about when my plane is going to land. And I realize even Whole Foods is a whole paycheck for a lot of people. So Instacart, Rosars, Albertsons.

I don't care. You can pull what I'm about to describe to you off anyway. where the only reason I go whole food is I like their chicken. So I get one whole cold artisory chicken that easily goes in the mini fridge. I'll give me like two days of protein. I get a bag of frozen blueberries. And even those in a mini fridge in a hotel room will just like stay good longer than the ones in the canister and the cheaper. I get a bag or, you know, a little, whatever you call it, a little, like the little canisters.

of macadamia nuts or walnuts. Yep. I get a few tins of either sardines or anchovies, a thing of mixed greens, cucumber, a tomato, and a little thing of mustard, which I use for the sauce with the chicken,

just like good stone mustard. And then if I've got any money left over, I've got a bar of dark chocolate. Oh, and yogurt. I like the really good, thick, creamy coconut yogurt. Yeah. I get all that stuff, the drives the hotel.

Everything can fit into the mini fridge. It needs to fit into the mini fridge. I get the little utensils from the hotel restaurant or the ones that they put in the bag, Whole Foods, little salt packets and pepper packets, even though a lot of times I travel with my own really good salt. And I can do like chicken salads. I can do yogurt with chocolate and blueberries. I can do chicken dipped and mustard.

I can do a Mediterranean style like sardine salad with tomato and cucumbers on it. Like I didn't do a few pretty decent meals and eat really well on what I just described to you for everything I just said. That's still under 100 bucks. Yeah. Any grocery store, at least in the U.S., and many grocery stores around the world. So, you know, that's just an example of how you could pull something like this off, like be healthy. Even when you're on the road and everything I just said, you would totally thin to like a home grocery shopping list too. If you, man, if you saw the structure I have around my travel and food, like the cooking and the VRB

and everything I buy and what I do. And I even bring my own avocado so they're right. I'll have to tell you sometime off camera. It's messed up. But it's, you know, it's just, I'm that detailed of a guy.

But I think what you said, you can do this even if you're on a quick trip to a hotel, if you just do it right and take the time to map it out. I mean, you could really do it. So I'm with you. Man, look,

I could go 20 more hours with you. I swear this was one of my favorite conversations I've ever had. I really appreciate it, man. It was. It was. You are the man for sure and well, well earned all the accolades you have, and I don't think it's enough for you. So why don't you tell people,

I know you got a couple new things that you've just had come out. You want to tell them about that and where to follow you. I mean, it's easy, but we'll just put it in their description. Let's see. I think the coolest things for people would be, you know, I have a podcast and the right articles and stuff of Ben GreenfieldLife.com. I have a new book. It's like the Bible of Biohacking.

It's called Boundless on Amazon or a boundlessbook.com. I just launched a new, like, ketone-based bar with the ketones in it, which is kind of unique. I don't know if anything like that exists. It tastes pretty good. They got cinnamon roll and vanilla cheesecake and I'm working on chocolate. And that's called a boundless bar, boundless bar.com. And so those would be a few things to check out. Yep.

I'm going to try some of those myself. They fit right into my daily, daily diet. So I appreciate it again, brother. Thanks again. I'm going to look forward to seeing you at events and talking with you in the future. And I appreciate everything that you do and that you've done all these years. And I know you got a long way to go. So thanks again for your time, man.

Cool. Thanks, Dylan. Love you, bro. Love you too, man. All right, everybody. That wraps up another one. Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jameli and Ben Greenfield, signing on.

Later.