THE ED MYLETT SHOW - 8 Hidden Signs Your Ego is Slowly Ruining Your Life | Ed Mylett

Episode Date: July 11, 2026

What if the biggest thing standing between you and the life you want isn't your circumstances, but the masks you've been wearing? In this mashup episode, I bring together four extraordinary conversations that all point to one life changing truth. You cannot experience real peace, fulfillment, or freedom until you stop trying to become someone else and start embracing who you truly are. So many of us spend our lives chasing success, approval, achievement, or perfection because we believe those things will finally make us feel worthy. But the truth is, no amount of money, recognition, or accomplishment can heal what we refuse to face inside ourselves. This episode is about dropping the ego, letting go of shame, and finally living from a place of authenticity. Tom Papa and I have an honest conversation about the difference between confidence and ego, and why humility is actually one of the greatest strengths a person can develop. Lewis Howes shares one of the most vulnerable stories ever told on this show, revealing how years of hiding pain behind achievement kept him from experiencing true freedom. His courage reminds us that our greatest breakthroughs often begin the moment we stop pretending we have it all together. These conversations are powerful reminders that vulnerability is not weakness. It is where real strength begins. You'll also hear an incredible conversation with Dr. G as we explore how shame becomes trapped in the body and silently shapes the way we think, react, and experience life. She explains why healing isn't about becoming someone new, but about reconnecting with who you've always been underneath the fear, the pain, and the conditioning. Then LeAnn Rimes opens up about navigating criticism, anxiety, and the pressure of living under the world's expectations while learning to define herself from the inside out instead of through other people's opinions. Her honesty is something every one of us can relate to, no matter where we are in life. I believe one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself is the freedom to stop performing and simply start living as your authentic self. The people who inspire us the most are rarely the ones who appear perfect. They are the ones who have the courage to be real. If you've been carrying shame, chasing approval, or believing that achievement will finally make you enough, this episode is your invitation to let that weight go. The world doesn't need another version of someone else. It needs the person you were created to be. Key Takeaways: Why confidence and ego are completely different and how humility creates lasting success Tom Papa's perspective on balancing ambition with authenticity Lewis Howes' powerful lesson on removing the masks that keep us disconnected from ourselves Why vulnerability is one of the greatest strengths a leader can possess Dr. G's insights on how shame becomes stored in the body and how healing begins How LeAnn Rimes learned to separate her identity from criticism and public opinion Why seeking approval from others will never replace believing in yourself The freedom that comes from embracing your authentic self instead of chasing perfection The greatest version of your life begins the moment you stop trying to earn your worth and start believing you already have it. My hope is that this episode gives you the courage to let go of the masks, trust who you really are, and step fully into the life you were created to live. 👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ←  ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INSTAGRAM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FACEBOOK⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LINKEDIN⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WEBSITE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This is the admire. Hey everyone, welcome to my weekend special. I hope you enjoy the show. Be sure to follow the Ed Mylett Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Now on with the show. Welcome back to Max Out, everybody. I'm Ed Mylett. And I want to start out today's show by just reminding you of something about you because maybe no one's told you in a little while. You were born to do something great with your life. You're supposed to do something special and you're gonna. I can promise you that you have all the potential in the world within you. And I know the rest of the of the world is probably telling you constantly to be average, to be ordinary. You know, there's different haters you have in your life. There's people who put you in your box. There's people who overlook you that make you feel invisible. And it's important that you hear from me that that's not who you're not who you've already been in your life. Your past is not equal your future.

Your present does not equal your future. And I just want to remind you officially that you can do something great with your life and that you're destined to do something great with your life and that you are born for a reason. So important that you know that, that you hear that. You hear that you that for me today and that you begin to believe it about yourself because if you don't believe that about yourself there's no chance it's going to happen you can't achieve something in your life that you don't believe strongly certainly that you can achieve and I know that I find many of you today some of you are listening to this today you've got momentum in your life and things are going well and you're looking for a key or you want to hear

about a mistake you might make that you can miss because I warn you about it and I'm going to give you all those things you know that on every program but I know there's many of you that arrive here today you just not in the in the groove. Things aren't going great. Maybe you're in a down cycle in your life. Maybe there's some letdowns and some hurts that are happening right now. Maybe a little bit of, you know, a little melancholy, little anxiety, little fear, maybe all the way to some depression. And I just want to be that person who reminds you that you can do something special and that you're going to and that you have everything you need within you right now to make your life great and you can turn it around at

any time you decide to. You know, what you allow is what's going to continue in your life. I put out a post about this several weeks ago. It's hard to accept this, but what's happening in our lives, we're allowing it to happen. And to some extent, we almost believe we deserve it because we produce in our life what we really believe we're worth, what we really believe we deserve. And it doesn't, it's hard to accept that because it seems coincidental, you know, that the wrong person in our life, or there was a business setback, or our car broke down, or, you know, our company went out of business, or whatever it might be. One of your clients just quit and changed their mind, and it seems coincidental. but you really truly are getting out of your life what you believe you're worth, what you believe you deserve, and you're allowing it to happen.

And I'm going to challenge you today to stop that. Stop allowing it and know that you deserve better. And so we're going to talk about something very ironic today that doesn't seem connected to it, but it's absolutely connected to it. And that's ego. See, the truth is ego is always false. Ego is always something that raises its head when we're insecure, when we're fearful. If you meet people that you think are egomaniacs, that are constantly. constantly bragging about themselves. These are the most insecure people that you know.

They're the most fearful people that you know. They're the most scared and they're usually the least happy. And so, but I'm going to say something to you. I want you to consider as I go through ego today, I know you think, wow, I'm so down on myself. How could I have an ego? It's actually the people that are down on themselves that actually have their ego materialize and show up more often than they think. And it's their ego that may actually be holding them back. You think, wow, how could someone with low self-esteem have a big ego? Well, trust me, they do. And so egos are not part of people with high self-esteem. The people in my life that are the most self-confident typically don't have big egos. And so I want to talk to you about that thing. By the way, I'm covering

this today like many things I cover because it's something I struggle with. My ego will step forward often in my life and it usually steps forward when I'm the most scared. It could be when I'm achieving. I'm starting to be pretty full of myself, right? But a lot of times when you're achieving and you're full of yourself, what's really happening in your mind is you're afraid you're going to fall down. You're afraid you're going to lose something. You're afraid there's going to be a setback. So often our friends where we see their ego is when they're doing good. Or she thinks she looks so good she's showing herself. Actually, she doesn't think she looks good and she's looking for validation from other people.

You guys that have a friend, you know, he's really winning's making a lot of money, he's just not the same. He's got a big ego all of a sudden. You'd be surprised that money he's making, that car he's driving now, he's so afraid he's going to lose it. He's so scared. He so believes his results have exceeded who he really is. he's so out over his skis that that ego shows up because he's afraid. When you see ego, know it usually means fear. And I know that sounds counterintuitive, but it's true.

So we're going to talk about just recognizing our ego when it shows up, because for me, either someone else points it out to me, close to me, or I see it in myself. If you have to wait around for other people to tell you, hey, your ego's out of control, it's too late usually. So we've got to be able to see our ego when it rears its head, be aware of it and it loses its power over us. We can go back to be in our real selves,

which is point one today. You can't love yourself if you're not being yourself. You can't love yourself if you're not being yourself. And when our ego shows up, in a minute, I'm going to show you some not-so-subtle ways ego show up, and you're going to see what I mean about maybe your ego is present. But remember this. When ego shows up, we're not ourselves. We're not connected to God.

In other words, if you can let go of your ego, you can let God in. When you can let go of your ego, you can let your real confidence in. When you let go of your ego, you can go really become who you were born to be. And so oftentimes, this is so important you get, you may be losing right now because of your ego. Because of your ego, because you're not feeling good about yourself. And so let's get into some of the things that are indicative of big egos. The really obvious ones that I want you to look out when they rear their head sometimes for you or others. But then we're going to go to the not so obvious ones, and then we'll talk about a solution.

So here we go. Here are some of the signs that your ego is taking over in your life. Number one, defensiveness. It's not one you'd think of, is it? defensiveness. You ever meet somebody who's very defensive, very reactive about whatever their situation is or whatever you're asking them about, their ego is rearing its head. Sometimes we need to respond to criticism to get better, and when we're defensive about it, that's our ego rearing its head. So in yourself and in other people, do you see any defensiveness patterns for you? This is an ego issue.

Number two thing that's ego issue is always trying to be right or prove what you're saying to be true in excess. If you ever meet somebody who's kind of going out of their way to prove what they're saying is true, this is usually their ego taking over because they know what they're saying may not be true, and this is their ego rearing its head. The second thing is the need to always win in a disagreement, the need to always win in a fight. This is an ego issue that somehow if you concede to somebody that they've made a great point and maybe you need to make an adjustment or a change, that somehow you're weak. This is made out of a position of insecurity.

So believe it or not, that's an ego move based out of the insecurities you have. You don't always have to win every disagreement. It's okay to say I'm sorry. It's okay to admit. Admitting you're sorry, admitting you're wrong, being open to criticism and changing is a sign of confidence and strength, lack of ego. Ego is when we're weak and insecure and we have to win.

We have to prove what we're saying is true. We have to prove we're right. If you see this tendency in someone that you're in a relationship with, you're in business with, or in yourself, this is their ego rearing their head, and they're never going to fulfill their full potential. I know many of you right now, That's so-and-so at work.

That's my spouse. That's my girlfriend. That's my boyfriend. That's my dad. That's my mom. And that's great that you see it in other people. But is it you? Just ask yourself honestly.

Is it you? It's easy to see these egos in other people. But the real winners in life, the real achievers are so self-aware. They see these things in themselves. Number three, ego issue. Pride and boasting. Constantly bragging about themselves. Boasting about their achievements.

Boasting about what they have going. Being very prideful in their behavior. The Bible talks often about the maladies of having pride in our life. but if you're bragging, if you're boastful, if you're prideful all the time, this is someone with a big ego. That's one of the more obvious ones. We go, I know that, but do you see that in someone you love?

Do you see that in someone in business? Do you see prideful and boasting in yourself? The next one's a not so obvious one, revenge. Do you seek revenge against people? Do you want to get back at somebody? Do you know people who are constantly getting back at somebody? Revenge is ego every single time. Next, possessiveness.

Possessiveness is an ego thing. We don't own people and our desire to control to control people, control situations, to possess people almost, is an ego issue. And when you see this in other people in your life, someone's trying to be possessive of you in your business or in your personal relationships. No, this is an ego out of control happening and they better get that ego in check or it's going to make your life miserable being in a relationship with them. And if you have this issue, you're going to make people around you miserable trying to

possess them as well. Be honest. Does this fit you or someone you love or no? Talking poorly or gossiping about other people, number one sign of insecure. and that's ego. You think, wow, he's right. Insecurity and lack of confidence is actually ego. And it is. And so people who gossip, who talk about others, try to go an entire day of your life without talking about another person in a negative way. Actually, try to go about an entire day of your life without talking about another person. Just try to not talk about another person to other people for an

entire day. And it'll begin to reveal to you how often maybe even you do it. And I say this because it's true of me. I always say, I'm positive. I never talk about. bad about people, but that's not true. I have moments of weakness, especially when I'm with other people who sort of do that, I start to behave more like them. And maybe you do too. When you're around gossipers, do you gossip or do you stay above it? This is a sign of insecurity. It's a sign of weakness. Do you see this in you? Be honest. Where do you talk about other people in the presence of other people? Or do you know somebody who's like this? Either you or them have an ego issue. Next is what I call the gym weirdos. You ever been at the gym and you see that woman or that guy

constantly flexing in the mirror all the time like that just it makes you almost uncomfortable doesn't it or maybe you have a friend who's constantly looking in the mirror constantly checking their phone constantly posting only filtered pictures on social media right they're just constantly obsessed with what they're looking at themselves these are out of control ego people right so ask yourself a question is that you or somebody that you care about bullying bullying is an ego issue only insecure and weak people bully people when I say bully I'm not just talking about children in school. I'm talking about at work. You may have a boss that's a bully. You may have somebody in your department that's a bully. You may have a leader that's a bully. Their only

way to get you to move and perform is bullying. This may surprise you, but as a child, I was bullied regularly because I was undersized and they'd call me Eddie Spaghetti, and I just didn't have confidence. Bullies figure out who the unconfident kids are, don't they? And so I got picked on a lot. Not only did I not have any confidence, I was in Secura, was also small. So I was a great target for bullies. But honestly, when I became a businessman, I think I became a bit of a when I was young. Now this was 20 years ago, but my style of leadership was intensity was almost beating people up into performing rather than elevating them with recognition. And so bullying can be easily sloughed off, but I want you to look at your style in business

and in your family. Do you get people to elevate because you recognize praise and believe in them, which is what I think I'm great at now in my life? Because I recognize the pain it caused other people when I was in my early 20s when I was more of a bully push people type leader. You'll get far more out of your life and other people by pulling them with you than by pushing them. So ask yourself this of yourself as a leader in business, in your work, in your family, or the people around you. This is an ego issue. Now let's go through some of the less obvious ego issues that you may be suffering from or people you know. Number one, seeking outside approval and reward.

The addiction to other people's approval is an ego issue on your part. You have an out-of-control ego if you're seeking the approval of other people. Remember what I said to you earlier. You can't love yourself if you're not being yourself and you can't be. be yourself if you don't believe in yourself. Remember that again. Let me say it to you again. You must hear this. You can't love yourself if you're not being yourself and you can't be yourself if you don't believe in yourself. And so when you're looking at the addiction of other people's approval and seeking that all the time, that's the symptom. The disease is you're suffering

from lack of personal belief. Not being able to be alone. People are afraid of being lonely usually have an ego issue. They're afraid to be alone. They don't like to be in their own company and own presence. Ask yourself, are you comfortable in your own presence? in your own company. Again, that'll indicate to you whether you love yourself. Another ego issue is that you only hang around people who agree with you. You only are hanging around people who believe exactly politically what you believe, exactly what you believe religiously, exactly what you believe about society. You know, a rich life, a confident person is willing to associate with people who have different

opinions and express them. An unconfident person can only surround themselves with people who think exactly like them. And that's a formula for a really boring life. It's a formula for no growth. challenge you. There's no one to stretch you. There's no one to make you think differently. There's no one to help you express your opinions. One of the great things about having a different opinion than a friend is you get to express that. Maybe it reinforces your strength. Maybe they persuade you. Next level is really subtle is you're offended by criticism. If you're offended by people's

criticism, you really have an ego issue. You need to look at that or the people around you that do. I'm going to give you two more that are ego issues that you need to look at. Are you stuck in the past? Are you constantly telling old stories from your past? Because that's an ego issue. That's a lack of self-esteem issue. Nobody wants to hear about your past. No one wants to know where you played quarterback or what you got in college or what promotion you once had

or when you were once on TV. No one wants to know about the past or what you once did anywhere in your life. They want to know where you're going and what you're doing. If you're constantly reciting the past, it means you're not living in the present. And this is an ego issue

and it's a formula for not winning. The next thing is insecurity and self-doubt. That's an obvious one. But believe it or not, people who are insecure and have self-doubt have an out-of-control ego. because they lead with ego. They lead with this false self.

Ego is false self. So they lead with the false self because they're so insecure and they've got so much self-doubt. Constantly apologizing. Believe it or not, if you're someone who chronically apologizes, you have somebody in your life

who's constantly apologizing, but then they make the same mistake all the time. This is someone with an ego because you'd rather take the easy way out and apologize than fix your behavior. And so these are people that I don't want in my life. You keep apologizing for the same thing over and over again.

Stop doing it and you don't need to apologize. The bigie. worrying about what everybody thinks about you. If you're constantly worried about what everybody thinks about you, you have an out-of-control ego. That sounds crazy. What do you mean? If I had a big ego, I wouldn't care what everybody thought.

No, exactly the opposite. People with out-of-control egos are so insecure. They're constantly obsessed with people think about them. People with no ego love themselves, as we've talked about. People with the smallest ego are connected to God, and they love themselves because they know they come from God, in my opinion. And so because that's the case, You don't need the approval of other people because you've got God's approval.

You've got the universe's approval and you've got your approval. And once you have that, you don't need other people's approval. These are all ego issues that impact our lives. So those are all different issues with the ego, right? Some of them are very obvious. Some of them are not so obvious. But let's just talk about you in finishing today. Wouldn't the ultimate version of you not brag, not boast, not tell stories about the past,

not worry about what other people thought about you, right? Take criticism very well. All the things that we've discussed today. The ultimate version of you would have none of those things, wouldn't he or she? And that would be the removal of your ego. I believe the way we remove our ego is we love ourselves and we believe in ourselves. And that way we know ourselves. And so what I want to challenge you to do today is just to start to give yourself a little bit more credit.

And just know when you see these symptoms arising in your life, these are indications your ego's out of control. And check yourself when it happens. If you have people in your life who embody these symptoms, it's often easy to see the ego things that really repel us in our life, but the fact of the matter is for me, every single time in my life when my ego gets the better of me, I have a setback. Hey guys, we're sponsored by Roe, and I've got to tell you, a lot of people assume GLP1's cost a fortune, and that's the assumption that keeps them even for looking into the treatment. But the reality is, there may be a more affordable option, way more affordable than people realize.

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Quince.com slash ed. So listen to me. It's very dangerous to lead with your ego because I'm telling you you're getting ready for a setback in your life. Where do my setbacks come from in my life? I'm going to tell you where I have setbacks. People ask me, how do I get out of my slump? How do I break the habit that I'm in? And I'm going to tell you what it is for me because it's connected to ego.

For me, I started to think I had it so figured out when things were going good that I stopped working on myself. I stopped reading the books. I stopped listening to the podcast. I stopped improving myself. And when you do that stuff, the poor result doesn't show up as you're doing it. The poor result shows up 90 to 120 days later. So that's the problem.

The failure or the setback is delayed by like 90 to 120 days in everything we do. So in business, if you're really successful right now and you got to a certain point, but you stopped the very activities that got you there, you don't fail the next day. 90 to 120 days from now, you pay the price in your life, don't you? You didn't do the work you were supposed to do. And so three, four months later, all of a sudden, business is down again. So the negative result always trails the negative behavior by about three to four months. For me, my happiness level or my confidence level, I always, I got it going and then I

stop reading books. I stopped listening to right stuff. I stopped the right associations. It didn't happen immediately. But 90 to 120 days later, now my ego's out of control again. And so where my ego rears its head for me is I begin to think. I think I got it figured out. I think it got it going.

I believe my own press clippings, and I stopped doing the things that are going to get me to the next level. And three to four months later, I go, man, I'm in a slump. Man, there's a setback right now. What the heck happened? What happened, Dummy, Ed Milet, is 90 to 120 days ago, you stopped doing the things required to win. And so the truth is, where you are right now,

I love you, brother or sister. I want you to win. I opened up today by telling you you're supposed to do something great with your life. But in order for that to happen, you have to do the great thing. great things now because the positive results will trail by six months to a year. So negatives come get us 90 to 120 days, but positives don't end up showing up sometimes

for six months to a year or longer. It's kind of like when you first start to eat well, you might get a little bit improvement. Then it levels off and you're like, man, I'm eating well, I'm working out. Why isn't my body changing? Because the positive result is six months to a year away. That's why. But if you stop eating well, if you stop working out, you're 60 to 90, 120 days, your body's bad again. Same with our lives. If we're doing something great with our life, it's going to take

us six months to a year to see the positive result. And so don't let your ego get in the way of saying, man, I'm doing all this stuff when it's not working. There's a delayed gratification coming. The same time, if you are winning right now, don't stop doing the things that got you where you are because you're only 90 to 120 days away from a setback. This is how the ego gets us. And so I want to remind you in conclusion, you're supposed to do something great with your life, you're supposed to contribute, you're supposed to win, but that starts with today loving yourself, which is believing in yourself, okay? You can't be yourself if you don't love yourself and you can't love yourself if you don't believe in yourself. And so today, start to love yourself again. I'm not about self-love.

That's not what I'm talking about. You know, some thought, I love me, I love me, you know, Stuart Smalley, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough. Gosh darn it, people like me. That's going to get you nowhere. Do things that are in congruence with who you really are. Do things that are the removal of your ego. You know what says you have no ego? You're willing to do the work every single day on yourself and in your business, even though there's no result. That shows no ego.

Ego is, why would I keep doing it? There's no result. Or ego is, I got it going. I don't need to do it anymore. You want to know you don't have an ego? You want to know you got your act together? You're doing the work right now to show how much you love yourself, how much you believe in yourself, knowing the delay.

gratifications coming six months to a year or maybe longer from now. I'm here to challenge you to start living like you love yourself, living like you believe in yourself because you can't love yourself if you're not being yourself and the real self, the real you takes all the steps to care for you, all the steps to improve you, all the steps to grow you. So you know you love you, you know you believe in you when you begin treating you like that. And treating you like that means you don't gossip about other people. You're not addicted to what other people think about you, right? You're not some victim. You know better than that. You're not someone who needs

everybody else's permission to win. You're not waiting around for results and not doing the work. You don't stop doing the things that help you win. So today, start doing the things that improve you confidence-wise, listening to people like me, following me on social media, listening to the right podcasts, reading the right books, in your business, doing the things you know you're supposed to do. Let me tell you what I know about you in your business. You're not confused about what you need to do. if you're a school teacher or you're an entrepreneur, if you're a mom or a dad, if you're a pastor,

if you're a young person who's studying and wants to get into college, you're not confused by what you need to do. There's no confusion on what you need to do. There's only the decision of whether you're willing to do it and to do it consistently and to do it even when the results don't show up. Even when the results aren't there,

are you willing to do it. And if you are making progress, you are getting good grades, you are leading your church, you are moving your business forward, you are flourishing at work. Do you have enough lack of ego to continue to do the work required to get to the next level? That's the separator.

Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. Welcome back to the show, everybody. The gentleman's sitting across from me, I think is one of the most talent comedians of all time. I was telling him off camera.

He's just a tremendous storyteller. And I love his style. And he's been doing comedy for over 20 years. One thing about him that's always stood out to me, his inherent goodness as a person, I think, shines through and his work. Like, you inherently know when you watch him, this is a good man. And that storytelling has transitioned now into three books. And his third book's out right now.

It's called We're All in This Together. So Make Some Room. And there's so many great life lessons as you laugh your ass off in this book, but tons of great life lessons in the book that we're going to uncover today. Tom Papa, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. It's nice to be here. Finally.

Yeah, finally. I think there's a way of like really feeling blessed and that you've got some gifts yourself and not letting it be like a big ego thing. If you, I had a friend of my one time when I was really worrying a lot of, he goes, man, you got a huge ego. And I went, no one thinks I have a huge...

That's not true at all. He goes, no, no, no, you're the center of the universe, man. And like, your problems are way more important than everybody else. It's kind of to your point that you just said. Was he saying it in a derisive way? He was saying it like wake up. Oh, really?

You know, like, wake up. Like, hey, dude, like, yeah, you're not that big of a deal. And it's going to be okay. And other people have way bigger problems than you do. And, like, maybe start. I have this phrase I use that I got from him. He isn't even, he's just a friend. He's like, he goes, whenever you feel helpless, get helpful.

Help some other people. And I've, like, repeated that, like, hundreds of times. People listen to my work. You're like, now that's profound. I'm like, I got it from my buddy who told me how I had a big ego. It's a good one. That's where it came from. But it's really true.

But can I ask you a question? Sure. Without a little bit of that ego, do you think you would have been as successful as you are? No, meaning. Like, because you have to... Depends on what you define as success. Would I have made the money I made and reached a... Would you have made the money and felt that you've achieved something, which I think is very important?

I think it gives you, I think, achievement and success in, like, you know, that you're helping other people and people are buying your books and people who are living. listening to your show. It's much easier to walk through the day and slap your hands and say it's going to be a great day when you have some things under the belt. Yeah, let me tell you what I did. And you kind of need, like. You do.

You gotta have a lot of confidence, a lot of belief. And you gotta be hungry, and you have to think. Yeah, I think confidence and ego are different. And I'll tell you what happened to me when I was young, since you asked everyone can listen in. I met Wayne Dyer really young. Do you remember Wayne Dyer? He was like a thought leader, kind of like a Tony Robbins guy

back in the day. Maybe a little new agey kind of back in the day, but really profound guy. Yeah. Anyway, I met him, and we got to know one other very well, became lifelong friends. And he said, Ed, I think you're going to change the world, you know, and gave me all this belief.

Uh-huh. And he goes, do me a favor and, like, never attach all of your confidence to, like, your abilities. Mm-hmm. Because you'll always be chasing that tale. It'll never be enough. You'll never be good enough. And he goes, attach your confidence to your intentions.

Mm-hmm. Meaning, he goes, Ed, you're a real good man. Now, God gave you some good voice and pretty good brain and you're a hard worker, but attach your confidence to your intentions. And so, like, even before I speak or even meeting you today or a business meeting I go into, my confidence booms, but it's like, I'm a good guy and I want to do well. My intention, even probably where you walk on stage. I don't know that you go, I'm the funniest dude in the world, but I bet you there's a party's like, I intend to make these people laugh. Yeah, and you need to have a little bit of I'm the funniest guy in the world because you need to approach things like, I can't. do this. Sure. That's the thing. It's not like I'm better than everybody, but I can do this.

Yeah, I think that's me. And also, for me, there's faith involved. So I'm like, kind of whatever I'm good at came from God. I've worked very hard at it. Yeah. So, but I think all my life, like anybody, I probably struggled with ego slash confidence slash humility and where's that blend. My favorite people in my life, nuance, humility and confidence. They tow that line very well. Yeah. Because my friends that are super confident with no humility, they make you sick. Yeah. And they wear you out and they eventually burn out or mess up. Yeah. My friends with tons of humility and no confidence, they drain you.

Yeah. They're always down. They're always complaining. You're always picking them up. So it's those people kind of that tow the line, at least to me, that seem to be the people I want around me. Yeah. You got to harness it.

Yeah. It's like you got to, like if you want to be as good as you possibly can at whatever you do, you got to believe in yourself. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that you believe in yourself to the detriment of all everybody you run into. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, like just in the comedy clubs, like there would be guys who would roll in and cut everybody else on the lineup.

You know, it'd be 10 comedians waiting to go on. And they walk in like, I'm the guy. Right. And then like cut everybody and like do an hour. And then everybody's like, oh, this guy. And, you know. And some people would do it before they've earned it. Like some guys, you're like, no doubt, you could do whatever you want.

until we're all happy you're here. And other guys like, just got some success and they start throwing that weight around. And you're like, ugh, that's gross. Because they didn't have what you're saying. Like, they lost the humility part of it. Humility and some self-awareness, don't you think, too? Like, just a little self-awareness.

Jay Leno on your show that I was just listening to on the 4th of July, I didn't agree with the way he said it, but I know what he meant. On your show, he goes, I think the key to success is low self-esteem. Yeah. And then I went, that's totally backwards. But then he kind of elaborated. And he goes, meaning, I don't always think I'm the funniest guy in the room. I wanted the best lighting guy, the best producer.

I surrounded myself with good people. I think what he really meant is the key is humility. Yeah, I think that's, which is not low self-esteem, but I thought it was a really good point. It is a good point. It's all a balance, isn't it? Because like when you say the low self-esteem thing, like I've been doing this 30 years and I'm on tour now and I'm moving in,

I have a new act, so I'm digging deeper and trying to come up with it. And it's actually, scary yeah i've been doing it 30 years i have a thousand people in the audience waiting with their tickets to see what's going to happen tonight like and but they don't know that i'm like yeah you know what i mean and so like i don't know if low self-esteem is the right word but it's nice to feel vulnerable it makes you it makes you stay uh working hard at it you You know what I mean? Like if I just thought, oh, whatever I say is going to be great, I probably would start to deteriorate. I know exactly what you mean because I'm speaking and I just finished kind of a tour of my book and I had a talk that I became very comfortable with giving and it worked and everyone liked it or I think most people liked it.

And I don't want to keep doing it. I want to do something new. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Milet show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. All right, welcome back to Max out with Ed Milet, and I am really excited about today. Before we get going, I want to remind you all, we do this for free, and so all I ask from you is that you rank and review the podcast there on iTunes. Do me that favor, please. My guest today, I was thinking about it coming over here today. I think he's the most, I think he's the Dose Echies man of personal development.

I like that. I do. He's the most interesting man in personal development. I did this survey with you all, and I asked you, who were the guests that you wanted on my program? and Lewis's name kept consistently coming up. So I've got him here for you today. Lewis, thank you for being here. My man. Thanks for me, appreciate it.

So good to have you here. So Lewis, as many of you know, has a School of Greatness podcast, which is a top 100 podcast in the world. He's written a couple different bestselling books, including the School of Greatness. But the one I want to talk about today, if we can, is the mask of masculinity. It was such a great read, brother. I've never read anything like it before. Thank you.

Yeah, it was so good. So one of the masks that Lewis talks about in the book is, men, you know, with their masculinity, wearing the masks of different types of people, whether it's the material mask or the athlete mask or the stoic mask. And it's such a fascinating read. It is for men, but to be candid with you, I think it's a fascinating read for women to understand their men. Exactly. So many women are telling me that they finally understand their husband, why their father never showed them the affection,

why their sons don't look at them in the eyes. It's like trying to understand men a little bit better too. It's brilliant, man. And so there's this story in there that stuck out to me. And I could picture you as a little guy when this happened, but you talk about, and it's interesting, it could be a non-event for some people, but it was for this dodge ball game.

It was, because you want to be, remember, this guy ends up going on to become a college and professional athlete, right? And if you draw back all the way where that mask started, it started in a damn dodge ball game. Yes, in elementary school, you know, I was still trying to find my way and just have a couple friends, just try to fit in.

And one day, the teacher of our class, there's probably 30 kids in the class, about 50% men and boys, boys and girls. They say, okay, during recess, we're going to play a team dodgeball game, and we're going to split it up into two teams. So everybody's had that game at school, right? Right, yeah. Everyone's played dodge ball or something, right?

And he said, okay, I'm picking you two boys as the captains. Pick one at a time. I don't think it was his intention to do this. He was just like, yeah, you guys split up the teams. Okay. So we're all waiting to be called out, right? Yeah. And these two popular kids, one of the time, start picking each boy.

And I'm thinking to myself, I'm one of the taller kids. I feel like I'm pretty athletic already. They've got to pick me in one of the first people. So I'm standing up there in front, like waiting to be called, and they pick all the boys one by one until it's me and the last boy. And this boy, like, he was not athletic at all. Essentially, I'll keep it at that. And they pick him.

And so now I'm the last boy to be picked. However, as you know in the story, they pick a girl next. And then they pick another girl, another girl, until it's me and the last girl. And I'm like, there's no way. I'm going to be like, they're going to pick this girl before me. This girl is like zero athletic ability, right? She can't even walk. And they pick her.

And then I'm not even picked. I'm just by default. No. You know, just go on the next team. They didn't even pick me as like, oh. What's going on here? Are you raging? Are you sad?

I'm raging. I'm raging. I'm already a kid that feels neglected, that feels like the youngest who doesn't get any attention. You know, I didn't have any friends. So at this point, I said, I'm going to destroy everyone on this team. Like, give me the ball. I'm just, like, slamming people's faces. You're already being good.

Yeah. And I'm just, like, destroying people. And I go, never again will I be picked last. You can see it in midnight right now. I can see it in your physiology. Never again will ever get picked last in anything, right? And that's what I told myself. And I just become a training machine every day after school.

I would go to the playground, go to the gym, go play basketball, and train until my mom would have to call me in at like 9 o'clock and say you got to come home and you think that game has something to do with you end up being a professional athlete I think it I think it was one of the triggers of just like always feeling like I was abused left behind not good enough it was just one of those triggers you face change even when you just said yeah it's just like it's one of those moments that I can remember you know as many moments like that yeah but that was a moment where I was like okay I just never want to feel this again.

Yeah, it literally defined part of your whole identity. Absolutely. It was one of these masks. You're like, I wear this one well. And so I put, yeah, so I put the athlete mask on and I said, never again am I going to lose? And I also needed to be right. You know, for me, like being wrong was losing. And so I was like, I need to win at all costs.

I need to be right at all costs. And any time I lost in a game, I was the worst loser because my self-worth and my value was tied to winning. or losing. And even when I won, sometimes I wouldn't be happy because I would beat myself up about how I could have been better. Amazing. So I couldn't appreciate the journey. We just always got to get better.

Got to get to the goal. Got to get to the goal. Yeah. Everybody that's listening, including me, frankly, a lot of us relate to that. Yeah. And we're going to talk about some solutions that too are those that are watching this.

You certainly know someone like us. Sure, sure. And it's interesting because you have that event. You have a brother who goes to prison. I didn't know, but you go to aborting. school when you were 13 you had a it's amazing that you end up becoming one of the most sought after people on the planet to improve people's lives and yet you have these events that you didn't allow eventually to define who you were there's a significant one though as you know yeah

I think it's the genesis of the book probably yeah but if you don't mind taking them through this you had some sexual abuse happened to and you were a very young boy I mean I mean very young so you had the 13 you have the brother go to prison you have the dodgeball game But the biggie. Yeah. When I was five, yeah, it was, here's the thing. When I was five, I was raped by a man that I didn't know. And for 25 years, no one knew about it.

I want to ask you this, because I've not heard you answer this. Are you telling me literally you didn't tell anybody? I didn't tell anyone. I told a professor my freshman year in college. I said, you know, something happened to me, but I didn't tell them what. Wow. So, mom and dad definitely did. Parents didn't know.

I never told anyone exactly what happened. I was too afraid to let people know. And so for 25 years, I'm 34 now. When I was 30, I went through a bunch of different challenges in my life with an intimate relationship I was in, a business partnership I was in. And just everything looked good on the outside. People were like, man, you're crushing it, Lewis. But I was suffering on the inside and I didn't know why.

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These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, prevent any disease. Here we go. Someone's already claiming this is our year. Someone else said that last year, too. A round of Jameson, ginger and lime arrives at the table. Smooth enough for kickoff, smooth enough for extra time. New friends pulling up a stool.

Debates about whether that was a handball. Cheers rising like a roar around the room. Because match days are about the shared moments. How did Jameson to your match day lineup? Jameson, it's what you bring. Please enjoy our products responsibly. And I don't know if you've ever felt that when your business took off, but you're like, why am I not fulfilled?

I absolutely do. Yes. You felt that before. Of course. And for me, I was taking all of this, I was just angry, constantly angry. I was doing great in my business, but angry because I couldn't figure out how to cope and understand my emotions. So I took all this frustration out on the basketball court. Every day I would go play basketball a few blocks away.

And every day, it was like I was looking for a fight. You know, in college when you're like, you're just like, I hope someone looks. Yeah, look at me. Yeah, I'm going to slap you. Running to me the wrong way, like, I'm going to beat you up. You know, I was just, I was looking for a fight. And I think that was the only way I knew how to express myself was through physical aggression. So many people are relating to this right now.

That was my life. Football was my ability to just destroy people in a legal way without getting in trouble. I could get it out every single day. So when you don't have that anymore, it's like, I need to go play basketball and, like, rough it out. Yeah. Because I didn't know how to cope with my emotions or what I was going through. I just didn't have the skills or the time. tools. So every day I would go out and play basketball and I just constantly someone would

yap at me and it was like I had to step to them like I was the alpha dog and like shove them and scream at them and just show them that they weren't going to mess with me. It's amazing. Just to tell you because being in your presence and being around that way. Yeah. And our mutual friends no one would describe it this way now. Exactly. And you know I'm typically I was typically not that way either. Like I'm always a very loving like happy person. But there's a trigger thing. It's a trigger. Like if you crossed the trigger, it was like, you're going to go down. Or I was going to go down or something. And so every day it was like waiting for someone to hit me.

And they wouldn't hit me. I would like push at them. I would scream back at them. I'd be like, don't talk shit to me. Don't do this. Don't like whatever. To a no stakes pick up basketball game in West Hollywood. It's not like anything's on the line.

Yeah. It's like. And one day, after a few months of this, I'm guarding a guy who's much bigger than me. older than me and we're getting in a heated battle back and forth he's fouling me hard i'm found him hard like but it's kind of like this that's what you do in the street ball right you're kind of found each other hard but it's it's all good it's fair game he's calling it i'm calling it it gets down to the last point game point for both of us both teams he gets a ball down getting ready to shoot the layup i i found him hard you know

i grab his arm down so he can't score it's the game would be over i guess it was enough was enough for him and he came at me and head butts me now this one This was the trigger that put me over the top and said, incredible Hulk is coming out. Snap City. Snap City. It was like, I can't even remember because I just put him in a headlock and just started UFC pounding him, throwing him to the ground, on top of them, just like, unleashing all this anger.

It had to come out somewhere. Yeah. And this was the moment it exploded. Because I didn't know how to let it come out any other way. Now afterwards, I remember I was shaking so much because it got up and there was blood gushing out everywhere all over the court. The police station is right across the street. It snaps back into me like, I have everything to lose here.

I could go to jail. What if something happens? What if I actually hurt him really bad? Whatever. Like, what if my whole life could be over from one moment? I know what happened to my brother going to prison from one drug deal that he was involved in. One thing he got caught, which put him into prison sentenced six to 25 years. He got out in four and a half on good behavior.

So all of a sudden, I'm like, how stupid can I be? to allow my emotions to get the best of me to react. After that point, my friends were like, you know, you need some help, man. Really? Like, you need some help. You know, it wasn't that bad, but they were like, why are you doing this? That shouldn't happen, right? Why are you allowing this to happen?

Did you know why then? Do you think you knew? I think I was just like angry at everything. No matter how successful you're still, there's this angry piece of you. Because I would achieve all these things that I wanted, but then I was like angry, right? when I achieved them. Like, it didn't fulfill me. Yes.

So I was like, I need to get bigger. I need to make more. I need to, like, get more goals. I need to exist. Like, maybe then I'll feel good. And none of it made me feel good. I don't know if you felt that way. You're like, I need to get $10 million,

then I need to sell my company. And then I'm going to feel great. And maybe it felt great, maybe not. But if it does, it's temporary. And you're exactly right. Everybody watching this that's had any level of achievement that thinks once I get something else or I get to this place, then I'll be happy, then I'll be happy.

Then I'll be happy. And it does, I don't know anybody. And you and I also both know lots of very wealthy people who are completely unhappy. Like Tony Robbins talks about all the time, success without fulfillment is complete failure. So I relate to that level of failure. So do a lot of people. And those of you that are chasing your dream, you've got to find a way. And we're going to talk about this in the minute to enjoy you now, celebrate you now.

Because when you get to these different places, guess who arrives there? You. And if you're there with the same damage, with these same masks on, the amount of money you have just, and sometimes frankly magnifies the pain that you're in I think because you can act out different ways so right yeah so go ahead so you you have this event so my friends start saying and I kind of come to an awareness of like I remember running back from those courts like up into my room up here like looking in the mirror shaking because I've got like blood all over me and I'm like what am I doing the last fight I was in was on was like 15 or something and I'm like why am I doing this look at myself in the mirror literally like why why are you doing this who are you okay and who do you want to become I was just asking myself this over and over and I started to say okay I need to take a deeper look of why I'm so resentful why I'm so angry why I'm so frustrated and why I'm triggered why am I triggered when someone steps to me or says something to me or leaves a negative review online or why do I always have to defend myself so I started calling some

some therapist friends of mine that I knew some spiritual coaches that I knew I started going to workshops and I went to this one emotional intelligence workshop that similar to like what Tony does, where I had us address kind of our past, past with our parents, pass with girlfriends, past with friends, like childhood and just kind of addressing it all. We recreated and reenacted situations to face ourselves in those moments and recognize why we'd become that way. And after I was in this five-day workshop and after the third day, we had done a lot, you know, addressing our past. I'd cleared with my parents internally had cleared with like relationships and the facilitator of

this workshop there are about 50 people in it he said okay we're moving forward to focus on our vision for our future the things you want to create the person you want to become we've addressed everything in the past but if there's anything you haven't addressed yet now's the time to talk about it otherwise we're moving forward like get on the ship and so I'm going through in my mind at this moment like it's a pause in the room and I'm going through I'm like my parents getting divorced, yeah, like pretty much everyone has done that, right? Okay, I went through that.

Feeling bullied and picked on, I talked about this, feeling like insecure in school, my brother in prison. Like, I talked about all these things, and I was like, what about the time I was raped by a man? It just kind of came in my mind. And this was always in the back of my mind. You know, every week I would think about that moment. It would come up, like, just kind of randomly pop in and out of my head, and I would just push it to the side.

And I remember thinking to myself, if I don't say this now, I'll probably never say it to anyone. Like, the setting was perfect. I had gone through enough challenges and breakdowns in my life where I was like, I'm willing to figure out whatever it is, I'm going to go there. And so I just stood up, walked to the front of the room. I didn't even ask for permission or anything. I just stood up, watched the front of the room. And I remember, Ed, that I couldn't look anyone in the eyes. So I was staring down the entire time at the ground.

and I walked through for the first time just looking down when I was five years old I was at the babysitter's and the babysitter had a son who's a teenager and I just walked through the entire thing and I couldn't look up because I was so embarrassed and so ashamed of people knowing this about me and when I was complete I said it pretty calmly you know I just kind of said it very calmly

and when I went to walk down it's like almost the moment I sat down as like I erupted of tears that I've never had in my life And I just couldn't stop crying. I was just like crying over and over again. Thankfully they were two women on either side of me They were holding me. They were crying. I was crying I was embarrassed and ashamed of what I just said of people knowing this about me because I wasn't perfect looking anymore I wasn't this like all-American guy who had to figure it out anymore And I remember running out of the room outside. It was in a hotel conference room. I ran outside because I just needed some fresh air I had my head up against the wall outside.

And one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to me happened next, one by one, the men who were in the room came up to me outside and just gave me a big hug, looked me in my eyes, and told me that I was their hero. One by one, they said different things like that. And the crazy thing, the thing that I was afraid of, people knowing about me the most, was actually the thing that when I shared it,

people connected with me even more, trusted me more. And people kept saying that. I'm like, wow, I thought something completely different about you, but now I trust you. Now I'll follow you anywhere. Like they said these things to me, and I was like, what?

That makes no sense. You know, everything that I was afraid of, that I was taught not to be a little bitch, a little girl, a little pussy, a little fag, whatever the words were that made you wrong, that made you different, that pushed people away from you. I was taught to like fit in by like being manly having it figured it out you know winning like

talking bad to people whatever it may be and none of those things served my heart and it started to awaken everything in me like when I finally opened up about that I just said you know what I'm going to open up about everything how because the freedom it gave me to realize wow you still accept me for who I am or the things I've been through and you still you still like me. You actually like me more. You trust me more. I was like, what?

Wow. This concept of like being real. Yeah. Not that I wasn't real. Yeah. But I think I was always like had a little bit of layer of a mask hiding behind. We all do. Yeah.

What's amazing. Sorry, I'm getting a little choked. But of all the, I mean, I read all these personal development books. I listen to all these guys. It's the most compelling story I've read. I'm just going to tell you. Oh, I appreciate it. No, it is, brother.

Because the courage. I think it takes courage when you're five, but to carry it and carry it and carry it and carry it and carry it and then release it like this massive that takes a gargantuan amount of courage, right? It does, brother. And I think for the people that are listening to this, because this is corny to say, but often in our life our greatest test is actually our defining testimony of our life.

That was the greatest test of your life, and it's really the testimony of your life. Everything you're becoming was unleashed, because you finally took your mask off. That was the big mask. Huge for me. The secret I was carrying around my whole life that I didn't want anyone to know.

And here's the crazy thing. You know, the people in that workshop were like, you should tell your family. And I was like, there's no way. So even after that. I was still scared to let anyone, I was like, this is a safer container, you know, it's like confidential,

like no one's gonna hear about this. But I was willing to explore and see what I needed to let go of to see what I could create in my life. Eventually, I was like, okay, I'm going to tell my family one by one. And it was terrifying. But again, when I told them, they opened up to things about me that I didn't know. And we built a stronger relationship as a family.

Then they were like, you should tell your friends. I was like, no way. My family has to love me. You know what I mean? But my friends, they're probably not going to accept me anymore. But I started doing it one by one. What was it like? Would you go into him like, uh-uh?

I think I went back to that like just being terrified as a kid. Like, what if they don't accept me? Same thing. Same thing. It was like the fear of what if people don't accept me. But one by one, people accept them even more. And they trusted me even more. And they were there for me more and had compassion.

You know, humanity is a powerful thing. When you show vulnerability, I truly believe that other people who have a deep heart, like, are going to open up. So do why. You know, there may be some people who are going to be so guarded, they can't receive it. But usually most people have a great heart. You're right. And my friend started saying, you got to share this publicly.

And I was like, no fucking way. Well, now you're right, right. You should tell this on your podcast. I was like, no, it's going to hurt my business. Like, what people are really going to think weird about me. Yeah. But after six months of me just saying, you know what, I need to continue to talk about this because it still has power over me.

Because when I talk about it, I quiver, I popitate my heart. Like, it still owns me. And I don't want this thing to own me anymore. I want to own it. And so I finally had enough courage to just kind of tell all the close people in my life. my friends and family. And it wasn't a hard thing anymore to talk about it. You know, it's still a moment that I wish no one to go through.

Of course. But it doesn't take over my body. And so I said, you know what? I need to do this publicly because I felt like I'd never seen another white, straight male jock-looking guy open up about this. Yeah. I've never seen it. Maybe it's happened, but I just...

Nor have I. I can't think of like some personality or athlete or business leader. who has opened up about it. And one in six men have been sexually abused in some way. One in six. And yet it's not acceptable to talk about it. Whether it be, you know, to friends and family or publicly or whatever. It's just, I'm not saying everyone should publicly talk about it.

Sure. But I felt like for me... I love what you said about it still owning you. It did... It was owning it. Yeah. Yeah. And here's the thing that happened.

When I put it on my podcast, I talked about it on my podcast, I did a whole episode about it four years ago. I shared it out. And at night, I posted it out at night. Like 11 o'clock, I was right here in this room. I posted it out, and I went out and sat on that patio right there. And I sent out one tweet, and I just said, I'm going to leave it up to the universe to see what happens.

I didn't promote it anyway. I just put one tweet out. And I was like, I want to go to bed and see, hopefully no one watches this. You know, I was like, hopefully no one saw it. You want to do what you don't. And the crazy thing is I went outside and it was like, it was 11 o'clock at night, but it felt like it was daytime. It was the largest moon in the last 100 years that happened that night.

It was a super moon. And it was like, I didn't know this was happening at that time. I just decided I needed to post it then. And it kind of gives me chills thinking about it. And I was looking up the definition of like, what's a super moon mean? And it's like, a super moon shifts the world. And I was like, this is crazy, right? And over the next couple of weeks, I was getting.

hundreds of emails from men sending essays telling me I've been married for 35 years my wife doesn't know this is what happened to me I've been in this relationship for this long I've never told anyone you know this had this happened to me for years when I was a kid this had you know the craziest stories I've ever heard made mine look like a disney movie compared to some of the stuff that men were emailing me yeah but it's like I gave these men who listened yeah permission for the first time to talk about it because if a big jock-looking guy like me Yeah, right. Good looking big jock, athlete, successful. If I talk about it, then maybe someone else can talk about it.

Wow. And the healing that started to happen from within of these men, where they finally started to talk to their partner about it, where they finally started to address it, where they finally started to not be so stoic or so driven by sexual mask or the material mask to make themselves feel better, they started to communicate in healthier forms and just show a little bit of emotion, show a little bit of vulnerability. and heal from within. And they got healthier physically. Their businesses grew. Their relationships thrived because they were able to communicate. And I think as men, we've been conditioned not to share certain things, to be tough, to be these things, to not be weak, to not be soft,

to not show emotion, to not show affection. You know, as a kid, I was always, like, pushed away from my friends when I would be like, it's so good to see you. You know, I would, like, put an arm around a guy. Not in a sexual way, just like, buddy, buddy. Yeah. And be like, get off me. What are you gay?

Yes. It's interesting. I was going to tell you something, because I'm that way too. I have touchy feeling. Yeah, yeah. Especially with, it's like when I see my buddies, I touch him. Yeah, exactly. I want to say something about what you said there because it was just, I think we all want people to like us, you know.

And I think that when we wear these masks, I think the more honest we are about who we truly are, the more people actually love us, the real us, you know? And I think what I love, what I want the men listening to this, this is a real man. a real man is vulnerable, a real man is honest, a real man's transparent, and not all of us have big muscles and are big guys like that, but I'm attracted to people, and I think everybody is who are their authentic selves, right? And you have this big, big story, and I love what you said about more men came to you, and I just want to acknowledge it, man, like, I think it's made a huge difference in the world. Thank you. And I think those of you that are watching this, I always advocate for somebody on my program, but I think there's a, I know when I'm with a genuine, good person who cares.

And like, I think if Lewis is this honest about this, imagine the kind of transparency you get if you were reading his books, if you were, if you were part of his podcast, become a part of his community because I think when you're like this, I think you get this out of your guests. I think that you get it out of the people that you interview too. Before we start the interview with my next guest, just want to remind you all that you can subscribe to the show on YouTube or follow the show on Apple or Spotify. We have all the links in our show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Now on with the show. Welcome back to the show, everybody. So this man's sitting across from me, I just told him if he was a stock, I'd be buying him.

And I mean that. He is already making huge waves in the world because his work is so profound, so impactful, so much so, by the way, that, you know, I do 52 interviews a year. I'd say 50 of them are through people that have reached out to the show. And then there's a few every year where I'm just persistent to find them and get them on the show. And in this man's case, I pursued him. I wanted him here today because I believe his work can change your life. And I think we can do that in the next hour. And so I don't even know what I'd call him.

I guess I'd call him like a holistic healer of both the spirit, the mind and the body. And his work is very diverse. It's profound. It's made a big impact on me. We could go three hours today and we have to squeeze it into an hour. So Dr. Christian Gonzalez, aka Dr. G., great to have you sitting across from me. What an honor, man. And what a beautiful intro.

This might be the best one. I feel really full, nourished, open. I'm ready to talk about her all, man. You shoot and I'm going to be like an old Western guy, boom, boom, boom, right from the head. All right. All right, good. This is profound, everyone. Listen really closely to this part.

I want him to speak on because he's awesome at this. But there's this shame that can only be released by giving yourself some grace. Yeah. Right? And those two words resonate with me. I think even in my case, I'm open with Moni is, I have shame about things that I'm not even sure what they are. Yeah.

Meaning, I think growing up as a child, I had an alcoholic dad, as you know. There's a measure of shame that came with it. There wasn't my doing. But I remember thinking, man, I don't want people to know our families like this. Yeah, yeah. And I would carry that to school with me every single day. or when my dad was yelling, I remember thinking, they can hear him down the street in their house, they must think.

So there's a measure of shame. Like, you can carry shame from things that aren't even your bags. And then, of course, there's your bags. You made a mistake. You didn't treat somebody well. You told a lie. You were human. And what Dr. G's work, you guys, is that this is stored in your body and your emotions.

And it's going to show up until and if you give yourself some measure of grace. So and it has shown up for me in different ways in my life and I'm at such an interesting time in my life and it's the reason that your work resonates with me where I'm like I do want to show up as me The sexual me being more sensual Right? I'm just so whatever that is right and in my Personal life like this being more authentic and transparent and vulnerable with people feels good to me It actually feels good in my body when I do and it feels good emotionally. I feel good about me when I do it. So talk about that relationship between

shame and then in the body, the heart, and then grace. Yeah. And thank you for sharing your background. I want everyone to notice when you feel awkward, that is shame. When you feel awkward, you're holding in, that's your shame being activated. Wow. Right. So think about it. How many of us feel awkward? Just when we see things, when we see someone expressing something that we want to express, but we judge them instead, right? Because we're triggered by them. Why are they dressed like that? I don't like how they're dressed. It's, oh, my God, as a man or as a woman, you can't dress like that. The truth is, is that the part of you that feels awkward and disconnected and wanting to be, like, just create distance and triggered by them, the truth is this inside of you, the part of you that wants to express like

that is being shown. Now, I want you to think about it. Growing up in your household and feeling, oh, God, I don't want the neighbors to hear. I don't want the neighbors here. Is this too loud? This is too loud. Ironically, is giving your body the signal that I can't be fully big, fully me. And it's, it's crazy because you've created such a beautiful brand for yourself. It's helping so many people and you have this bigness to you. But I wonder how much more personally, you walking the streets, you at a party, you walking through the office is, is even wanting to be expressed more of. And it's, I can't understate this. The fascia in your body, has no linearity of time.

It doesn't care about past. It doesn't care about future. Meeting that's why we talk about inner child. We're talking about our fascia. Our fascia remembers just like it happened one second ago. That's how deeply it is evolutionarily to our protection. So if you grew up in a household that had an alcoholic dad or alcoholic mom or bipolar, it's just not safe.

And you have not done any work around that. you are not going to feel safe in your own body because your fascia believes that it's still in the same moment as it was 40, 50, 30, whatever years ago. So this is so important to understand. This is why it's protecting you. The fascia is always protecting from the environment. This is why when there's someone raising their voice and getting loud and it's reminiscent of dad, there's a party that contracts. Jeez. Bro, can I interrupt?

when I'm in a restaurant and someone's loud, it drives me nuts. Right. Nuts. And I'm always wondering, like, it doesn't bother anybody else at the table except me. Like, why are they being so loud? Because that sensitivity is in your fascia. Your body remembers as if it was yesterday. So any loudness is going to trigger you internally.

Now, you're of rational mind. You're a grown man. And you're not going to go, okay, I'm going to shake and I'm going to cry. Or I'm going to be like, hey, shut up. Don't be so loud. You're going to be rational and be like, okay, hey, this is bothering me. but let's get back to the conversation. But guess what?

You can stop listening, but your body's not. Your body's going to be contracted. You're going to get in your car. You're going to get home and be like, I don't know my back is hurting again. I don't know why I can't really breathe today. It's because your body's communicating with you. Hey, there's some things inside of you, whether it's anger that wants to be expressed for that. Or sadness and pain.

Why were you like this? Why wish we could? That needs to be expressed out of you. And that's everyone listening. When you feel awkward or feel triggered by someone else, that is your body talking. to you and you have two things you can do. You can either ignore it and judge them and be like, or you can be like, why am I feeling this way in my body? There's something about this person, right? For me, and you said, I've been very open about this. Like, I grew up in a place where we

celebrated like frat living, right? Drinking, parting, Jersey Shore. This is where I was. Like, you've seen the show. That's real. Like, that's what the consciousness is. Guys would celebrate sleeping with the most women at the end of the summer. I was in. in that tornado. And there was a part of me that felt so inauthentic doing it, because I knew I was much more soft. I knew I was much more gentle. I knew I was much more of,

I want a connection. I've always been more romantic. I grew up like that, right? But it was so hard not being that. It was easier being just one of the frat guys, right? So it took many years for me to come back to that place and go, hold on, wait, that's not too feminine, right? That's not too feminine.

I can be sensual. I can move sensually. I can be slower. I can make love. Not just f***ic, right? And this is where so many men are, this is me. I gotta get out of me.

How do I? Instead of going, hold on, take a moment. Like, what's true for you? And that's when we talk about the sexuality and sensuality. But shame is everything. You could be ashamed to just be big.

You could be ashamed to take up space. You could be ashamed to do anything. You could be ashamed when someone's, angry and you don't want to get angry. Shame, that's why shame is such a iron blanket on our shoulders and it puts us, it puts our tails between our legs. And ultimately what that does is it holds back your authentic expression, which is ultimately the state of health that everyone I want the world to be in is authentic expression. Because when you're in that state of health, you've told your body, I am me. And when you tell your body that your nervous system is in harmony,

you're immune, your hormones, your gut, you're able to eat what your body. You're able to eat what your body wants to because you know what you want to. And on top of that, you're giving to the world what you're here to do. When you're in your authentic expression, just you being you shifts mountains. Just by you being, you don't have to put in the work. You put in the work, but you don't have to push against the grain. You can just show up and flow and be like, this is me. And the words that I say that are authentic to me. Why are they touching millions of people? It's because you're you. And people feel that. This is what you said in the beginning of the podcast before we started. You go, Dr. G, you say these like things, but people feel you.

People feel me because I'm coming from my authenticity. Bro, your work is so brilliant and profound, and I'm going to share with you, I'm going to confirm with what you just said. This last week, I was at a golf tournament, a celebrity golf tournament. I brought my son in it. And I want to make sure I say this the right way,

but the night before the tournament, I ended up in a long conversation with Caitlin Jenner. And I've watched Caitlin's life when Caitlin was Bruce. I'm old enough for that for the Olympics, all the way through to this day. And I've always had a genuinely good feeling about her. Same time, that issue,

I haven't been able to navigate my true feelings about, first off, I always want somebody to be able to express them true selves, but all the way to men, biological men, fighting women in sports, all these issues are very complicated for me, and I don't feel comfortable with that. And then does that mean I'm not supporting of trans people? you know, that whole dynamic. And so there's been a, I don't know what I would call it.

There's a curiosity slash probably some assessment of Caitlin for me. And I ended up, we ended up talking for like an hour. And I can genuinely say that it was one of the most enjoyable conversations of my lifetime. And it's one of the people that makes me emotional, actually, to say this, one of the people I have liked the most I have ever met in my life. trans, non-trans, non-trans, athlete, non-athlete, celebrity,

so much so that the next day we were at another event together and we ended up sort of just gravitating to one another. She says, man, you keep showing up on my phone and all this motivational stuff. And I said, that's probably because we were talking and now the phone heard you, you know?

But we had this visit the next day. And then I watched how everyone responded and people filming her and this or that or the other thing. And I remember, I think the reason that I liked her so much is exactly what you just said. That assessment, judgment, setting that aside, this person is their authentic self.

And that overrides everything else that's the noise in someone's life. And I think that's a pretty extreme case of someone expressing their true selves who knew they were going to take enormous criticism, enormous blowback. And then even in the trans community, because Caitlin doesn't support all of the niche issues

of trans. people. And so, wow, what a gutsy person to come out as trans to change their their entire life and look. And then at the same time, say, and I'm not locked up and barrel with all of you either on some of my beliefs. It's like that, no matter if you, I'm not saying I agree, disagree with stances, positions, any of that stuff. What I'm saying is what overwrote all that was this human being is their authentic self. Man, is that attractive. Man, was that interesting. So much so that I'm expressing it on my show right now a week later. So I just want to make sure that I acknowledge,

you guys, there is something to this, just being you and expressing you and being free to be you that is so attractive, so magnetic. So magnetic, that's the word. And in order to be you, you have to face the parts of you that are you that you don't want to look at.

You have to go into the proverbial house, the body, and open that closet that is the angry you, with horns and fangs and the tail. And you have to open up the closet and you have to see yourself on a fetal position crying the heaviest tears you've ever cried or in another closet, you're shaking so scared of monsters when you're a kid.

Whatever it is, you have to see that in order for you to fully be you. Because ultimately, you know, you hear so many people go love yourself. And I go, what the fuck does that even mean? Yeah. How do we even do that? Right?

Essentially, when we were children, we are this full spectrum of expression. We were that as kids. We know that because we were the saddest of the sads. And then a minute later jumping on the bed and the joyous of the joy and everything in between. We and self-help and motivation, we go, let's just look at the light. And you've got to be all of the loving, positive emotions. Negative emotions, you know, go for a walk or do some breathing, meditate through them.

No, man, you have to embody all parts of you. until you embody all parts of you, you cannot use the word love for yourself. Unconditional love, you know when people say it's a container? What does that mean? It means it's the container that holds all parts of you, the heaven and the hell, the dark, the light, all parts of you. And then once you hold yourself fully,

you can hold another, you can hold a lover, you can hold your children. Then you've held so much of your deep grief and deep sadness for the shit that's happened in your life that when your child cries, they ain't triggering you. You don't have to say stop crying. You can be with them fully open-hearted. You know how many women I see and they go,

I love my dad. He provided and protected for us, but I never had an emotional connection to him. Why? Because that man doesn't have an emotional connection to himself. He's never looked at the pain that he's holding. And until a man does that, it's going to be very difficult

to have a deep connection with your wife and your daughter. So this is our responsibility as men. This is our responsibility as humans. And here's the biggest superpower all human beings have. we know we have this awareness even if it's so turned up and we think we're unconscious oh we know we know when we're not doing what our body wants to do we know when we're not being authentic we know when we're putting on a mask we know and we definitely know when people are doing it this is why people can only fake people out for so long until things just stop working out for them right but you can't

you can't just fake it out at some point people are going to be see through a and this is why we buy stock in people who we go, that's the authenticity. I want stock in that. Whatever they're talking about, they're just being them. And they're radiating from internal, external, and the external is lining itself as the experience to them. Not internal. How do I show up for the world so everyone likes me? You got to be you, and whoever likes you, they'll find their way to you. Brother, this needs to go everywhere when we're talking about. I know. I mean, how profound what you're just saying is, like, even if you don't even agree, what I was just talking about with Caitlin, like, You didn't even agree with the person's position or stance.

There's something so attractive about somebody saying, this is who I am. And it's okay if you don't like me. And what ends up happening is there's a magnetism, an affection, an attraction to something that is real and true to somebody, even if it is, like, I have friends of mine that, you know, are super political. I'm really not that much, but like super left-leaning.

Like, oh, my gosh. And then I got friends of super right-leaning. And they're both really great friends of mine because I know who they really are. And there's something awesome about that, even if I think they're both wacky. Yeah, that's, that's, that's a beautiful way to say it. And, and this is what was happening. Caitlin was only mirroring your authenticity. What you saw in her is you.

So that shows you. There's parts of you that are dying to come out. That doesn't mean it has to be that. Yes. But there's, there's, there's parts of her, the authentic, the I'm big. I don't care who sees me. Maybe that's something in you that even more wants to be expressed.

I think absolutely you're right. This is why we're attracted. This is why we're attracted to people who are being themselves unapologetically, not hurting people, but being them from their soul out to the world. That was a great conversation. Be sure to follow the Ed Mylett show on Apple and Spotify.

Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. All right, hey, welcome back everybody to the show. Today's an honor. I guess she's an icon. I think I would say she's an icon. I'm going to say that out loud. She's an icon.

She's iconic for sure. And she's just a really special being. She's an immensely gifted artist. And you all know who she has once you, once I say her name. But I've just watched her. When I used to watch her when she was young, I thought she was this really young soul.

And as I've watched her become a woman, I think she stepped into a space where she's actually like a very old soul. No, thank you. Very wise. gone through a lot, she's grown a lot. And she's just got a new album out, by the way, that I absolutely love. I cried listening to a song on there called How Much a Heart Can Hold with my wife. And her new album is called God's Work. And I'm really honored that she's here today. So share

some time with all of you that I love so much. So, Leanne Rhymes, thank you for being here. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So you go away and you come back. And I'm just curious, like, does the anxiety manifest itself in any area? Like, could even be like coming here today? Yeah, it does. It does. So you'll still, you'll still, and what does it look like for you? Like, I don't really want to do this or I'm not good enough to do this or how do I get out of doing this? Oh, no.

I mean, yeah, I definitely, well, it could manifest in all those ways, actually. Yeah, me too. That's why I ask. I think it's definitely kind of comes back to this like worthy, worthiness wound. Wow. It's amazing for you. I know it is pretty crazy if you think about it because of all that I've accomplished in my life. And I, but I do think that that's why I was so adamant about accomplishing so much.

because I felt like I had to in order to receive love. Me too. And when you really boil it down, especially for myself, ultimately at the end of the day. And so now it's, I feel like that's definitely quieted down a lot. And like I said, I can stop myself this morning and be like, no, you're like, it's all okay. Like you can have all the anxiety and all these feelings of unworthiness. And you can still show up and you're still going to, for me, it's like just, I just ask like,

you know, I trust that whatever needs to come through will come through me. It is. And thanks. And that's the thing. Like you just, for me, I've learned to kind of move that piece of me just to the side. Not like out of the way completely. Just move it to the side. Tell it it can be there.

Like you can have your space in me today. Like you can be right here. And I'm also with you. There's another part of me that's here too. So it's a bit of compartmentalizing and at the same time allowing it to be complete. Like, I, you know, for me in the past, like, I used to never have stage fright, never have anxiety. Like when I was a kid, I was just, I felt superhuman. And until I, once I started to see my humanity, it changed everything.

All of a sudden I had anxiety. All of a sudden had stage fright at times. Like, I realized. About when was that? My humanity. It started, I would say it started, right, maybe around 28. Yeah, 27, 28. me too for me it was when other people started to criticize me a little bit

completely that's exactly when I happened my husband and I have been married for 12 years but we went through you know a very public affair and I mean the press is just brutal and especially for a woman and especially for a young woman who they built up to be a America sweetheart forever and so it was like the ultimate story for them and that's when I started judging myself through other people's eyes. And one day that did switch and like maybe 32 or 33, I realized, wait, these are people's projections on to me. Like I don't have, that's not who I am.

You know, my mistakes, I'm not my mistakes. And I'm not who they say I am. And I think that it took me, it took me doing a lot of soul searching to recognize who I was in order for that not to be projected upon me. It's very good. Yeah. Same with me. Yeah.

It's intense. Yeah. And by the way, this manifest, this projection from other people manifest in your life, listening to this, maybe the same way it does for you, Leanne and I, but maybe differently. Maybe you're living someone's projection in your life. Your parents projected a particular career on you. Totally. Or beliefs in yourself or what you are or are not good at.

They projected it onto you and you've adapted it and that's how you live your life. And so a lot of our lives, There's this whole thing, or we live it in some ulterior dimension. You know, we're not, but we are oftentimes as living other people's projections. And for me and you, it was like, wow, we were sort of achiever, achievers, and then criticism. And then I started to sort of look at myself as if maybe I've been fooling myself the whole time. You know, maybe I am that. Maybe I am. Maybe I am.

And maybe part of those. Maybe some of it was true. Maybe some of it was true for me, too. Some of it I was like, oh, I can see where I was kind of an asshole at that moment in time. You know, like, oh, I didn't. You know, I didn't take other people's feelings into consideration when I did blank, whatever it may even been. I can look back now and go, oh, yeah, like, there were parts of that that were true, but that's not totally, that's not who I am. Me too.

Yeah. My way out, I'm curious what some of your ways are. Let's talk about some tools out for you, what works for you. Ice baths. I'm just kidding. We were just for everybody. We were just talking about how much we can't stand ice baths before the show. Yeah, it's definitely not ice baths.

for the two of us right now. That's so dang funny. It's so true. I, for me, the hardest thing, I'll tell you something interesting, because I've been in front of people. I conflated two things, too. I conflated, like, love with significance. When I did significant things, I felt loved.

So if I would just keep doing significant things. And sometimes in life, these things also work for you. Like, one of the reasons you were so successful is because you did make this, and then you're a lot of times in life, If something works for you a little bit, it's really scary to give it up entirely. Because you're like, that's part of my recipe. If I don't have anxiety or worry, maybe I won't practice as well. I won't be on my A game.

And so there's a nuance to life. That's the hard part about podcasting or writing a book. It's like there's a nuance to something. But for me, the hardest thing that is now the most beautiful thing is what you just said earlier, me being alone with me. I realize like, maybe it's different for a woman, but maybe it's not. But like for me, like, I never even just stopped and really just like looked at me in a mirror.

Like just not, I'd look at like as my hair messed up or something. But I mean, just like, I love this man. I've like, I've never done, I had never done that. Like, I love this man. This is a good man. I never would stop. I was just doing life. And then this idea of like getting alone with myself

and being quiet and like just being with my breathing and these were so difficult for me. And when they were difficult, for me, I thought, well, maybe that's because it would be so valuable for me if I could do it. And so for me, forms of meditation have helped me a lot. Sometimes, like, actually writing for me can be a form of meditation. So what's worked for you? Like, if you were to share with someone who says, I got anxiety, I got worry, I got fear, I got anger. What has actually worked most of the time? Yeah, I mean, I think that piece of creativity is super important. I mean, we're all creative beings. Like, that is our

nature. And I think until we nurture that nature, and find a way of doing that. And I think what's so interesting, too, is we are all so unique. Like, what works for one person will not work for the next person possibly. And, you know, it's just you have to find your own path with it. So I dip in and out of things all the time. Meditation is pretty much a non-negotiable for me, even if it's five minutes during the day. I just need to sit, breathe. And, you know, I'll take an inhale and like and do it like double time, that double longer X-L. That usually will help my anxiety a little bit. But yeah, I mean, I've really gotten into recently working a lot with my physical body, like balancing my hormones.

Like I kind of went from at the beginning meditation and breathing to now like going running the gamut of pretty much everything you can think of. Me too. But, you know, physical, mental, spiritual, like emotional, it's all important. You can't leave one out. You really can't. Writing, I think, you know, has been such a big thing for me also creating. And I, yeah, it's interesting that you just said, because something clicked for me, you said that, you know, we get projected upon, like, the things we're good at, things we're not good at.

I think leaning into the things I've been told I wasn't good at, like I don't like to dance. Like, it really, I do not like to move my body. and there was, I think, that also has to do with old religious programming, too. But it's, I had this whole thing around, someone told me one time that I was a better singer than I was a dancer and I stopped dancing. And which, by the way, like, I might have been a fine dancer, but if you're going to tell me a better singer, I mean, I'm, like, I'm, I was exceptionally good at singing. So I, like, I couldn't dance that well, too. But yeah, yeah, I felt like I just stopped doing it. And so for me, finding what those places are that feel really uncomfortable. And even if it's for me putting one song on and like moving my body freely is in,

when I do that, I'll ball. Like I'll ball and I'll have so much joy at the same time. And then I'll stop. I'm like, okay, if that's, that's kind of my threshold of how I, but how I lean into those things. But I feel like it's finding those places for people what that are scary and walking into them and they don't have you don't have to just you know run and jump off the cliff like just dipping a toe into things to expand who we believe ourselves to be yeah like it just it opens our lives

up in every other aspect not just that one little space but in every other aspect of our life starts to change you're so right that's where i want to go to you're like doing the interview you for me. But like I tied up my identity into everything outside of me all of my life. So like if I made money or I got a muscle or whatever it was, it was, my identity was always tied to the external. Man, it worked for me for a long time. Yeah, it does.

It works. It works. But it like, when I got wealthy or whatever, like, it never was quite what I thought it would be when I would get there. And I think it was because I had tied it to the external instead of like, like, I, I just love this work. I love doing this work. So you had to have had your identity completely tied up and being famous or being a singer. And did you, have you unpacked that at all?

Like someone was this. Your identity could be that, and stay with me, your identity could be that you're a mother. Well, someday, by the way, someday you'll be an empty nester. And then what, right? So it could be anything out there. But did you, you must have a lot of that. It's still tied up. and to a certain extent around my voice.

I went through this few days the other day where I was thinking like, what could I live without? And when I really... What could I live without? Yeah. Like, could I live without my voice? And that was one big one when I was like,

I don't want to. But if I had to, I guess I would have to. And I just looked up at the sky. I was like, don't do that to me. So, you know, this is not an invitation. Let's not prove it. To test that theory. Right.

But I, you know, there was like my wedding, it was interesting things. Like my wedding ring like was really, it's really important to me. And yeah, it's random little things that I was like. It's a powerful question. Yeah, it was. And it was like, okay, well, maybe that's because of how important, like, relationships. I was told how important relationships were at a certain age, you know? Like, well, how are these things, how are, why are the few things that I wouldn't really want to let go of?

Why are they so important? So I went through that for a moment. And my voice is definitely one of those weird things when you're born into this world with something like that. And as you get older, like things shift and change. And I know that I'm not going to be doing this my whole life. You know, I mean, who knows? But I mean, at some point, I feel like I want a different experience. That's been the new thing for me too, is that whole term different experience, especially when shifting things.

It's like, oh, I want a different experience. What's a different experience look like? So it's been something I've been playing with. And I know for me, like, I will want a different experience one day than being on the road. Yeah. So, and I don't know. I mean, I've, I've had moments like, look, COVID, you know, gave us an opportunity to kind of untangle from all of those things that we were attached to. And I did for a moment.

And I was, I was okay with it. I was okay with it. I think, look, I, you know, I just released an album. I haven't ever, I don't even look at charts anymore. Like I don't know what it did. I really don't. And maybe it's part of that self-preservation. And also part of it, though, is, is not the reason I do it anymore.

Right. Like, the reason I do it is to connect with people and help shift, help them shift or help them question. And it's really, yeah, it's so interesting how my reason for doing things has shifted. Changed. It really has. What would someone listen to this? And they just said, hey, I'm curious to you're, I saw you on a stage. I don't remember whose event it was.

There's Lewis's. Oh, yeah. It was Lewis. I swear I met you. Yeah. Yeah. And I had to go up after you, I think. You did?

I think I had to go up after you. I was like, I'm not, I rarely have ever had that film. I don't want to go up after that because the room was so moved. I just thought she's going to be doing this too. Like what meaning this meaning like leveraging this gift she has, but. And it was much more like direct approach. It wasn't like just enjoy my work. There was a message, spoken message, some chanting with it.

I'm just curious. I'm surprised you haven't gone further down that road. It's something I want to do. Yeah, well, maybe today's the beginning. Yeah, no, right? It is. It's funny when you, when you asked me to come on here, that's what I thought about. And I remember you saying to me, you came up after and you were like, you've never

done this before because I had such a, I was going through this whole thing with Lewis. I'm like, I don't speak. I speak during my shows. but like this is, you're asking me to give a speech. And he's like, just come do it for like 10 minutes. And then you can sing and then we'll have a chat. I'm like, cool, I can do that. But it did give me this bug of,

this is another way for me to share and connect with people. And when you asked me to do this, it made me think of that. I'm like, you know what? I need to do that. I've been speaking for 30 years one time ever. I would really prefer not to go up right now after that person and it was you. I'm serious. And it's not because you can sing better than me.

I think that's kind of a given. And I was like, no, something just happened in the room right now that I'm not so sure I can match or do anything better then. And I'm dead serious when I say that to you. It's the heart. It's the heart. I mean, I think that I was so open. I mean, I walked up on stage and just started bawling because it was, I was conquering. And that's what I talked about.

I was crying out. I was conquering a huge fear. Yeah. And I know that that's also the reason why I haven't done more of it. But the reason, as I'm crying, the reason I know I need to. Which is rather remarkable that you of all people were uncomfortable getting up in front of a group. But the lesson in it, the reason I bring it up is the lesson. I made a post-Saturday about this.

Like, start a new hobby. You set a new experience. That's the pathway to bliss, everybody. That's the pathway, is to do something new that you feel ill-prepared for. That's a bit scary. But maybe you have some potential proclivity for it. Like, I shouldn't decide that right now I'm going to start doing 360 windmill dunks. It's just not a lot of dudes that are my bill that are doing.

on that right now. So it's got to be something that you have some proclivity for, but create a new experience. Like, even if you're great at something, to your point, like, you're the best at what you do. But do you want that to be the entire experience of your life? Right? Like, that's the juice of life. And so why I was so proud of you, not even knowing you that day, and then to watch you just go, wow. But I remember thinking, this is probably something she's going to do a lot of. And then really, you haven't very much since that time. No, I haven't since then. Well, but also COVID happens along those lines too. That's true.

But it is something that I've, I just had this huge meeting the other day with my team. And I'm like, that is, that is on the docket of things. Good. To walk into. Well, you just got introduced to a couple million more people. Yeah. So it's really good. I did a chant record during, during the middle of COVID because I felt like people just, people needed it.

Which was something new for me. I've never kind of branched out and did that. And then I think that kind of, you know, that informed this new record. And I'm also working, I'm working on a chant too at the moment. So I'm wanting to create this whole like sound experience for people. You guys, when she does this, it's unreal. It's unreal. She did it that day.

It's unreal.