THE ED MYLETT SHOW - Blueprint For Better Relationships w/ John Kim

Episode Date: August 30, 2022

I hope you’re ready to have your eyes opened to some INTENSE AND UNCONVENTIONAL relationship advice because THE ANGRY THERAPIST is in the house this week.JOHN KIM is my guest, and for the next hour, we’re not just talking about relationships with other people.  We’re going to peel back what makes you tick and talk about THE RELATIONSHIP YOU HAVE WITH YOURSELF.You can tell John’s approach to therapy and relationships is different just on the titles of the best sellers he’s published…I USED TO BE A MISERABLE F*CK and SINGLE. ON PURPOSE.  And he’s got a new title coming out called IT’S NOT ME, IT’S YOU, which may be his best work yet.Tell me those don’t make you CURIOUS about what John’s got to say.I love John’s work because he makes people turn relationship analysis INWARD, where most people refuse to spend enough time.  It’s so easy to point blame at others when relationships go bad, but often the worst enemy is THE PERSON WE SEE IN THE MIRROR every morning.Pay attention to what John has to say about his concept of SELF vs Self.  It’s the key to how you can change your life to live INSIDE OUT instead of OUTSIDE IN.  You’re also going to learn more about the internal dialogs you have with your SOLID SELF vs your PSEUDO SELF.LOVE is amazing, but love isn’t perfect.  John is going to tell you how we’re challenged because we're taught that love looks like CODEPENDENCY ... and we all know the pitfalls of codependency in all parts of our lives.As part of his contrarian thinking, John also doesn’t believe in THE ONE.  Instead, he explains why THE ONE IN FRONT OF YOU is the most important relationship you can possibly have.That leads us to talk about different ATTACHMENT STYLES, finding beauty in each other’s CONTRASTS, and loving your partner like IT’S GOING TO END AT ANY TIME.And no discussion about relationships would be complete without John’s takes of RED FLAGS vs. DEAL BREAKERS and how you should deal with DISHONESTY and COMPARISONS in a relationship.  You’re also going to get an education on what to do if you’re not feeling “IT” anymore.  After you listen to John’s wisdom, spend some time thinking more about what you can do to IMPROVE THE RELATIONSHIPS in your life, especially the relationship you have with YOURSELF.

This is the Ed Milach Show. Welcome back everybody. Today is going to be awesome. I'm so excited about today because the topic is unique for the show. And really what we're going to talk about today is relationships and not just your relationships with other people but also your relationship with yourself and how it impacts other people. And the man I have put in this seat today is so unique and so special. He is one of a kind.

He's called the angry therapist, which if you meet him in person, he's not so angry. But what he is his intense, he's direct. He's a little bit of a contrarian thinker. He's got a book out that's either right about the time you're hearing this or right after called it's not me. It's you break the blame cycle relationship better and his content is so damn good. I cannot wait to take you guys all in this ride today with John Kim. John, welcome to the show, brother.

First, thank you for calling me man. I appreciate that. Thank you for having me. Wow. What an honor to watch the world so weird. Where you could, I was just watching you last night on my phone and listening to you in my, and then suddenly I'm here in front of you and it's like the wall's gone.

You know, and like it's crazy. The world that we live in. So yeah, I feel very blessed to be here and to create dialogue for you. I feel blessed to have you here. I'm already like you. Oh, thanks. You know, a lot of, most of the time when someone's on the show, I've, I've either known

or had a relationship with them over time. Yeah. You know, people submit to come on the show and it's pretty nice. Going to do one a week. So it's not that easy. And then I start watching your stuff. I'm like, okay, I want this dude. I told my team, pursue him, get him.

I want him in this studio. Oh, I did know that. Yeah. So I'm really grateful you're here. Alright, let's get into, we're getting into relationship stuff. Not just, I mean, a lot of it's gonna be boyfriend, girlfriend, significant other, whatever you wanna call it, but it's also the one with you.

Yeah, that's the most important. Okay, so let's, and the hardest. So you say this thing, self versus self, like uppercase versus lowercase. Let's just start there for a second. What does that mean? Oh, man. I, you know, I'll start with the book before this was called,

I used to be a miserable f*** and a true story. And in my 20s, I was exchanging my truth for membership a lot, a group of LA. And so I didn't have a relationship with self. I was living very outside in, instead of inside out. And it's really good that I wasn't successful then because I would have been, the douchebag. It would have been very predictable story. I've got a dictionary in my blood. Me too.

But yeah, I had no relationship with self, no sense of self. And so very approval seeking. And especially when it came to relationships and women doing whatever I could to get the dopamine, to get the dopamine, to get the, whatever it is, the sex, the love, the approval. And it wasn't until 35, went through a divorce. And at that point I had nothing. I lost my friends, had no money, I was broke. I just got on Craigslist, found the roommate.

And I was like, man, what do I do from here and I thought, okay, I wanna start living a different life because I have nothing to lose, because I have nothing. What would it be to actually now start to live inside out and set of outside in? What would it look like to maneuver more in my solids? So when people say self,

the S for me stands for solid. And what I mean by that is we all have a pseudo self. We all have a solid self. And I got to tattooed on my, my, these are all kind of like bookmarks of, of, uh, the dog eared pages of my life, my tattoos. And, um, if you've seen the movie, uh, fight club, because I think it best explains this, at the end, we realized, uh, disclaimer, I'm gonna have to give away the ending to do my point. But at the end, we realized it's one person, right? So there's Edward Norton and just Brad Pitt. And Edward Norton doesn't have a sense of self, right?

He's kind of like a, you see the movie, right? Yes. In the beginning, he's just buying IKEA furniture and just like not sleeping going to movies and all that, meetings. And that's his pseudo self. And then he collides with himself, which is Brad Pitt.

And at first his resistance, get away from me. I wanted to have anything to do with you. And then through that collision, he starts finding himself, his solid self. And then because of that, he finds a movement. He's injected with passion, he becomes a leader, he gets to grow.

All these things happen. The whole character are. And I think we all have the Edward Norton inside of us and we all have the Tyler Durdon, I think, with his name. Yeah. And so the self, the self to me is the solid self. It's the what Marty Bowen in my therapy school calls, well, maybe people call it the authentic self, you know,

but I call it the solid self. Do you think that, to match you about call it the authentic self, you know, but I call it the solid self. Do you think that, Dimash, you about that outside in, inside out is outside in, meaning you're trying to get external stuff to give you a feeling? Yes. So, okay. Yes. You're living based on things that are outside of self instead of living from a place

of value, character, you know, stuff that isn't on the outside, but is that is internal. If you don't have that, so by the way, I told you guys, here we go. We're three minutes in and it's already freaking great stuff. But if you are an outside in living person, does that mean you're probably going to have pretty hollow empty relationships? Or can you actually have a effective loving relationship if you don't even know who you are? Oh, I think the relationship would be lopsided because I think what you're bringing to the table is the cardboard cutout Instead of like the human three-dimensional, right? And I think Most of my life I was that cardboard cutout if you are pulling from your pseudo self Which is the false version of you.

And by the way, no one solid. I mean, you know, Jesus, Buddha, maybe, but like as humans, depending on who you're around, like if you're around your boss, you may be a little more pseudo. If you're with your kids, you're going to be solid. If you're with your friends, different friends and stuff. But generally speaking, if you pull more from your solid self, what you're bringing to the table is uniquely you. You're bringing your potential, you're bringing who you are, you're bringing the acceptance

of your story. So a lot of pseudo-self people rip out chapters and they, they're kind of false advertising and they pick out the good parts of their story and present themselves in a way that is attractive. I certainly still do that sometimes. I think I'm loving this. So you do believe that it's, because I think some people listen to this or like shoot,

I still do do that. You're saying everyone still does it a little bit. It's to the extent or the propensity you have to do. It's when most of your days, most of your weeks, you're pulling from your pseudo self, that you're your lowest frequency, that you're not bringing much to the table. And so in that relationship, you're kind of a shell.

You may be fancy, you may be funny, you may be good and bad or whatever, but your potential is low because your humanness isn't there, and you know, and what makes you unique is the solid cell. How do you do that? So by the way, you came to becoming a therapist late in life.

I'm a late bloomer, man. I at 35, I did my first squat. I looked like a pigeon. I was the guy that biceps and then, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, nowriter, a failed screenwriter, and put my wife at the time out in a pedestal. So I revolved around her. So when the marriage ended, I had no life, which is great because then you start, it's a black light, right?

Yeah. It's like God says, this is what you have. And so I found fitness, and I found found crossfit and I was like, what is this? This is back, this is 12, 13 years ago when you were like flipping tires and alleyways and stuff. And I was really interested in it. And then I kind of got obsessed with it.

And it was always about challenging myself because it was timed and it was functional movement. Things I've never done before. And that became kind of my daily ritual. So I wouldn't fall into depression. So you're fit your way out of your way out of that, which for a lot of people is too, was physiology. Literally, yeah, that was one way in. It was that in motorcycles. Okay. One of the things that I tell people is with clients, they ask, you know, okay, so you've got the pseudo unsolid, I need to connect to my solid self.

And the solid self is usually the whisper. The pseudo self is a thundering voice, right? That's been programming advertising, right? The sheds, you know, followers, social media. It's very loud. The solid voice is usually the quiet whisper because we ignore, we don't listen to our solid self. We don't listen to our truth, because we're scared to. You know?

So stay there, you say this in your book and in your content that you need to listen to the quiet whisper. Yeah, more so. Yeah, what does that look like when you do it? Is it just getting alone and turning out the noise? Because this is profound what you're about to say. It's profound, right? Yeah, I think it's in the stillness, you know, when we talk about our truth, our intuition, I think it's in the stillness, you know, when we talk about our truth, our intuition,

I think it's in our stillness because we're so not used to listening to the quiet voice that we have to practice it until that voice then becomes louder and we trust that voice. I think our relationship with self is like any relationship in that it's built, you know, and then, you know, when people say self love, I kind of, I kind of feel like it's built. And when people say self love, I kind of feel like it's a bumper sticker because it's like throwing around a lot, like gratitude, right? And I get it, it's, of course, self love,

but self like, I think that's harder, man, because we love family members that we don't really like or would be friends with, because but they're family, so we love them with the choice. But liking someone's not a choice, right? Like if I want you to like me, that's earned, man. You know, I could say I love you as a brother, as a human.

Yes. I don't know you. Yes. But then liking is earned. And so when you play that to self, now enter the journey. And so when someone says, oh, yeah, love yourself, that's like, what over the weekend? What do I need to do to do that? That's like a choice.

Okay, I do love myself. I choose to, you know, I'm alive, I'm feeding myself, I love myself in that way. But if someone says, like yourself, then it's like, so that's where I started. Do I like myself? What does that look like? And then I fell into fitness and bottom-more cycle and spent a lot of time alone. You're helping millions of people right now. And the way you articulate this,

I have to tell you something interesting. I love when I'm with a vulnerable person, I become more vulnerable. That's why I love my show. And I think about the same age I started to evaluate that. Oh wow. About 35, I'm 51 now. By the way, huge work and progress on these things as well. But as I started to get to know me even, so it didn't start with liking me, it started like actually getting to know me.

I found that my external relationships really dramatically became deeper. And by the way, over time once I got to know me, I'm like, I relationships really dramatically became deeper. And by the way, over time, once I got to know me, I'm like, I kind of do like me. What was the catalyst for you? So from you, it was divorce. What was it for you? Success. Extra success.

Meaning, okay, I did exactly what you were saying. Right. I'll get another more money, more accolades, more people owe me more followers, more of this, more successful friends, more notoriety, more invites to cool parties, more jets, more this, more that. And I'm like, and I still am not happy. And this is a game I'm playing that is, like, by the way, I've gotten really good at this game. I got different than you in the sense that I got good at that game. But it didn't produce what I thought it would produce. So you had success early. So by the time you were 35, you were. I did some wealth by the time I was 35 and came from none of it, but I'll tell you what happened.

I remember one day I'm literally brushing my teeth. I caught a glimpse of myself brushing my teeth and I realized in this moment, I'm like, I never even look at me. Like I might get ready to make sure I think I look good, but I'm never alone with me, where I just like, look at me. Who is this man?

Well, you're busy being successful. I was busy being my pseudo self. Right, right. All the time. Right. By the way, a pretty nice pseudo self, a kind person. I was a giving person. I wasn't a mean person. I've always, you know, I think I've been pretty good human,

but I didn't know me. Right. And I remember just looking at me going, I don't know that guy. I don't even spend any time looking at me, never mind being with me or talking with me or enjoying me. And it started, it scared me. I'm like, I probably only have one more of these blocks.

I don't have great genetics. So I'm halfway. That's what I'm 35, I'm like, I'm halfway probably for me genetically. Now now I think maybe hopefully it goes longer than that. But it's like, man, I don't want to get out of this life with never knowing me, never liking me. And then really how deep are these relationships

that I have? I don't even know who I'm bringing to the relationship. And so your work, man, really resonates with me deeply. And I think a lot of people is to be surprised to hear two dudes about our age, you know? I'm 49. Yeah, I'm a couple years older than you, right? hear two dudes about our age, you know? Yeah. 49. Yeah, we're a couple years older than you, right? Well, if I was in Korea, I'd be 50 because they count the time in your mom's stomach.

Do they really? That's why I don't live in Korea. So I say that, like, I don't have a year. That's the reason. Okay, so you're year younger. Yeah. The other thing you said a minute ago, I want to go there is you're talking about how you put your first wife on a pedestal.

You have something you said, bro, that in your work that I just went, oh my gosh, which you said that we are taught, listen to this, everyone, you're ready to go for like a moment, which you're going to get a lot with John. You said, we are taught that love looks like co-dependency. The measurement co-dependency. So what is that? What do you mean? I used to believe that if you go down, I go down with you. If I go down, you go down with me because it's romantic and also, you know, Disney movies, romcoms and that feels,

it just feels like love, right? We're all in this together. And now I believe if you go down, I'll give you my hand, but not my life. You know what I'm saying? We are two different people. And the image, I remember this so well. A lot of people just heard that.

I'm like, no, no, I don't want that. I want that thing that I see in the movie. Well, because it shoots more dopamine. And it's sexier, you know? The image that I see for a healthy relationship, I thought it was a yogurt at, but someone DM me said, no, that was actually a Viagra ad. And I was like, okay, but it was two people in a,

they're like in their 80s, on the grand canyon, you know, in separate bath tubs facing outward, and the only thing that was connecting them was their hand outside of the bathtub. And I remember coming across that in a magazine and thinking, oh, this is what a healthy relationship looks like. Because what I would imagine is two people in a hot tub on top of each other, facing each other, you know, and yes, that sexy and that produces a lot of dopamine. And

that's kind of, I think we've been brainwashed to believe in the one. Happily ever after. You believe the one is BS. I do. I believe in the one in front of you. I think when you went and you've been married for so long, so I don't know how you feel about this, but. 25 years. Yeah. And I think today, that like doubles. It means more today, those you're right.

But when your program to believe that there is the one, I think the danger in that is whoever you're dating, you're gonna bust out your checklist. And if this person is the one and the one for the rest of your life, man, they better be perfect. And everything better check off. And the sex must be mind blowing. And all in, that's not where human, you know,

in relationships are hard. And so it puts a lot of pressure and a black light on the relationship. Now, if the one is just the one in front of you, now you're more present, and you're not thinking if there's someone else in the world that is better for you or suited for you. You know what I'm saying?

Yes. The one is always the one that you're looking at. Well, I actually think when you have a belief that there's just the one that when you meet them, that potentially you come across as desperate or needy because there's just one human now. Right. And I think sometimes people that are in the dating circles

don't realize that they have an energy they're giving off that once they think this person is the one if you have that belief system. Yeah. Potentially there are multiple ones that will be right for you. Right. Not everyone is right for you, but that when you do have this belief, this is the only walking human being on earth that will satisfy the things that I need in my life.

How can you not come across as somewhere desperate when you're not there? Well, you're going to do everything you can to get this person or make this relationship work. Right. And then by the way, I think then that's what I want you to talk about because you're the therapist, not me, but that's probably Foster's co-dependency. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I need you. talk about it because you're the therapist, not me, but that's probably Foster's co-dependency. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, I need you.

Yes, yes, there's a dependency. And that's also when you go from solid to pseudo. You know what I'm saying? Why do you have to go from solid to pseudo? Because you're not bringing your authentic self, you're bringing a self that is lying with desperation. That is now putting this person, you know, high up, that is now going back to the hot tub with two people

on top of each other instead of in their own separate bath tubs. And then also if you believe that this person is the one that you're supposed to be with for the rest of your life, what if it doesn't work out? What if she leaves? Like, you know, you just explained where most people have fights such misery, bro, because they think they had them. Well, also then you also get controlling, you also get jealous. You know all these other things, the shadow sides come out if you believe this is the one person for you in this world. But I think some people listen to us, let's go there, because you know what they're thinking.

Okay, they're thinking, yeah, but then how deep is the connection? If I don't go down with you. When you say go down, I assume you mean like maybe they've become a drug addict or an alcoholic even here. Like I'm supposed to ride this out with you forever as you ruin your life and mind.

So there is, you know, often think sometimes that with my children, you have kids that's unconditional love. There's really nothing my kids can do that's going to stop this relationship with me. My daughter killed somebody. I hate to say this, but probably help her bury the body somewhere. Yeah, no, I mean, all parents, right, right, right. But other relationships, there are conditions. There should be.

There should be conditions, right? Like, hey, if you repeatedly do these things to me, that's a condition that's broken. And I think sometimes people go to this, the one thing or this codependency thing whereas there are no conditions. Right. And then if there are no conditions,

if there are no boundaries You're putting an awful lot of pressure on that other human being not to push the limits. Yeah, don't you think? Yeah, yeah, Vanessa my partner says it in this book and I think we wrote together She says it really good about cospency. That's all her whole thing is She describes it as if I'm so basically if it what's healthy is If I'm so basically if it what's healthy is if I'm okay and you're not okay, of course, I could support yourself, but it's it's okay. Co-dependency is when you're not okay, that makes me not okay.

If I'm not okay, you should not be okay too. You know what I'm saying? Very good. And that's like the whole like I'll give you my hand, but that, it doesn't mean that if you see your partner going through a winter or a depression that you just, oh, that's not me. It's not that, of course you, of course. You're helping your support, but at what point do you, you can't lose self or your life

because, you know, because then they're taking you hostage whether they want to, or no, or not. This self thing is so profound, bro, because one, I think a lot of us come into a relationship, by the way, and again, I'm being transparent. I think to us about 35 years old, by the way, I'm still a work in progress on it. But if you don't know who you are, what do you bring into a relationship?

And then also this loss of self when we enter a relationship is a really dangerous thing. One, I don't think that you're bringing the vibrational frequency, the energy, the interesting things about you. If you die in order to be one in a relationship, and it's an interesting, I wanted to explore with you because I've watched relationships and of friends of mine that were very loving. They were two wonderful people that got together. They formed a bond. There's us now, which I think is is powerful, but at some point that us eroded me and I, meaning that they were no longer an individual.

Right, right. They meshed. They meshed. And ironically, that lack of individuality, that lack of expression of who one is, became less attractive to the other person over time. It's called false advertising because, you know, it's funny because when you're single, you're working on yourself, you're going to do all these things and you're really doing everything to connect to you. And then you get into a relationship and over time, you know, then it's the sweats and the, you know, people kind of like,

like, like, go taking care of themselves and all that. And I think we have a responsibility when we're in a relationship to continue the relationship with ourselves or else it is false advertising. Because when I met you, you were this type of person and now like we never go out, you don't, you know, you don't court me anymore, which should be continuous, right? You're not fanny the flames, you don't write all the stuff that you're doing when we started is now gone because things have gotten too comfortable You know, and so that's when it gets murky and that's when people start getting curious about other people. I think you're exactly right You know, what about this idea of thank you for being so good at this. Oh, I think this is good

But you're outstanding and you're you're the way you express it is unique and it's why you're sitting here Thanks you're outstanding and you're the way you express it is unique. And it's why you're sitting here. And like, I know when I'm in a good one of these, I know when I'm in something, I'm like, hey, this is, this is special. You talk about different attachment styles. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll just go through three. There's more secure attachment is, attachment style stem from childhood and of course, starting with our parents, but there's anxious attachment. And that is when you're holding onto the person's leg instead of their hand, right? That's like me.

I need the person to tell me that I'm beautiful and that they're not leaving and they love me and all that kind of stuff. Right. Lots of attacks and connection. There's avoidant. And that's more like my partner who goes, runs the other way is, is not way is avoidant with intimacy and hard conversations and vulnerability. We are not that much anymore because we've done a lot of work.

I can say that would be pretty difficult. You're right. Yeah, yeah. No, there's different extremes of that. But if we were to classify that's where I come from, that's where she comes from. And then they're secure. And secure is, again, when you have your own sense of self, interdependence, when you are your own person,

you have your own opinions, you can say no. You can say to your boyfriend how you want him to go down on you. You can express yourself. You can say no, I don't want tacos today, I want pizza. And I know it sounds very, very simple, but in relationships, we don't do that. We actually start loving the, because we think what

love looks like is loving the other person more than us. Yeah. More than us. And because that's what a good husband looks like. I'm gonna always put her ahead of she wants pizza. She's getting pizza. That's what that's what a man looks like. It's like, is it? Or are you exchanging your truth for love or for validation? Are you exchanging something that you know, I'm saying Yeah, so now that that's the case. Are you giving or taking because if you want something back from the person you're taking you're not giving Oh my god Giving would be like hey, I love you, but today I want pizza. Is that what you mean by choosing ourselves or is that a little bit different? Yeah, I think I think that also is choosing yourself, meaning, stand on your truth and put action

behind what loving, slashing, liking yourself looks like. And I think some people are good at that when they're single, but I think when they get into a relationship, when love enters the picture, especially if it's toxic, especially if someone is needy or codependent or controlling or all of that. The wheels fall off and it happens over time. It's like the boiling frog, right? It's a slow drip that can still drown you. People don't fall into toxic relationships when on the date they sent all these red flags and they're like,

okay, I'm going to invest in this person anyway. Usually it's over time five, six years in and now they wake up one day and they're like, I don't even know who I am. Yes. I don't know who I am. A lot of women, and mostly women, then men from Mike's parents with working with clients wake up mostly in their 30s and being with people for your, you know, five, 10 years, and this happens, and they're like, I have no sense of, I'm just here. I'm existing, I'm not living. And just having sex because it's obligation,

and they don't know what to do, and they've really lost, like, who they are. Okay, so like five million people just are going, oh my gosh, you just described me right? Yeah, now what do I do? Yeah, right, so what would be, what's up? You're going right where I want to go. Well, it's it's kind of like I think where I started, you know, it's the hero's journey, man.

It's the call to you know, the hero's journey, right? The call to adventure and saying your dragons. I think it's starting going back full circle to suit over solid. What is your solid self and can you start listening to that solid self? And it comes in micro moments. It's not like these big decisions, like, you know, life changing, I mean, it can be,

but it can be something as like, hey, you know what, today I'm not gonna go to work, I'm gonna go to the beach. It's a quiet whisper, but then there's this giant should. Yeah, but you're this and you're that, and then meet your lazy piece of shit and whatever. And so can you give yourself love, compassion, understanding, and today can you execute what you want, the quiet whisper, and actually go to the beach. Can you give that yourself without the shame, without the, and it's going to be really hard.

Most people can't. You start there and then you build and then you build and you get to a place where you start then able to set boundaries, to make choices and it's also more attractive, right? And then the people around you're like, I'll have what she's having. Yes. Man, she's kind, but she's asserted. And you know what's also happens? I'll have her. No, really? Like, what is happening? This becomes a magnetic, a refractive being, right? Or maybe for the first time. Right. I so totally agree with you.

And it could be actually standing up for what you want. Like I actually want tacos tonight. Yeah. This sounds so trivial. Yeah, it sounds silly. But it's in the mundane. Or actually, honey, you're going to watch the kids and I am going to the gym. Right.

And actually stand for yourself and do something caring and loving for yourself. Right. And coming from a place of controlling or getting back at anyone, it's coming from your truth and it's coming from a place of self love. You know, what is, you got this terms, man? What is repetition compulsion? Repetition, I don't, I think my part about that one. Okay, so that must be from your part. Yeah.

I think what it was is that you, I think, well, I want to go there with it because I think it was like repetitiously falling into a pattern in a relationship where like you have a compulsion to continue to serve them in a way that maybe doesn't serve you anymore. So actually, I'll make my own term of it. Yeah, let's just say I'm right. I love it.

I think you're right. But I think that happens intimately wise too. We're like, there's something that, and this, we're going really deep here, but like there's something intimately that your partner really loves that you don't enjoy. That you don't like, but you repetitiously do it as some compulsion to serve them, or maybe some verbal thing you do, or a particular behavior you have. Maybe it's not even in an intimate way, but it doesn't serve you.

It doesn't make you feel good about you. There's a way they speak to you or you speak to them, but it makes them feel good so you have this compulsion to continue to do it. That's my version. Yes. So we all went out to dinner the other night to me and like four of the therapists, my partners of therapists or friends of therapists. And we were talking and I don't know how we got on this topic, but we're talking about how women can go down on a guy and actually, oh, as a way to avoid sex. And I was like, wait a minute, I said, but that's so intimate.

And there might be for men, when men are going down on women, but for women, they're saying that these are all women. They're saying, it's not easy, it's not intimate, and it could be a great way to get out of sex. And it blew my mind, and I was thinking, and they're like, yeah, we've been doing it for years. And I was thinking, so that's kind of an example of a pattern that could happen, right? If you don't want to be intimate, where that's kind of how you take care.

And it shouldn't be happening because it's misleading. And also, you shouldn't be doing it if you don't want to. But something like that over the years, the pattern of that is damaging, right? And that's, we're just talking about just everyday stuff, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's super interesting. And it shocked me because I think, I was thinking, oh, and then I started playing back on my relationships and we were thinking, how many of them were just doing it

because they didn't want to have sex with me. Right. Oh my God. You look back at your life. I thought you wanted to do it. Yeah, I don't even want to think about that. Yeah, anyway. So you, I want to talk about love with one self.

And but also you say, well maybe she wrote it, but I know you can speak to it about fighting beauty and the contrast. Oh, yeah, that's all me, man. So, but that's the night we were going on five years and it wasn't, it was rocky. It wasn't lighting in the bottle. It was you know peeling the onion We're so different that in the beginning I thought I don't know if this is gonna work man. We're just very different, you know Across the board were different and so We got to a place where she's like either you know shit or get up the pot. You're either gonna be with me or not

Yeah, we took a couple weeks off and I came back and what really changed for me was, I started to find beauty in the contrast. I started to, instead of looking at our differences and saying, oh, no, it's not gonna work, you know, our humor's different or she's a vegetarian, I eat me or whatever it is, she's avoiding, I mean,

just any kind of difference, I would make it a red flag where I make a red flag or make it a pink flag and say, you know, a caution. And then I got to point where I was like, what if I started to look at her differences and found beauty in them? What if I started to, um, not only notice that she's different than me, but appreciate how she's different than me. And for me, that was the game changer, man. That's when the magnet flipped again. That's when I started to produce relationship glue, you know?

And I think it's not just with anyone. Like if you and I are different, instead of judging you for your difference, what if I start to see beauty in your difference? Yeah. I mean, it makes us human. It makes us human. I've seen this beauty in your difference. Yeah. I mean, it makes us human. It makes us human. I've seen this really interesting about that.

Most of my friends are morality or our character is very similar. Yeah. Well, actually, they're really different than me. Like, I'm super introverted. Most of my really dear friends are really extroverted people. You know, and very expressive people. I'm actually really quiet in person.

But it's interesting in our one relationship. Somehow, we have this fallacy that we have to believe that like, man, we're just exactly alike. Right, right. Like most of my friends aren't the way, what does that one relationship need to be that? Right. It's super true.

Also, even with myself, I like the contrast in me. Yeah. Like I love human beings. Right. As you can tell being with me, yet I am an introvert. Right. That's kind of a contrast. I am very quiet one-on- one, but I'll speak in front

of 50,000 people. Right. You know, I'm a super intense dude. Yet there's a real part of me that likes laying around watching Netflix. I like my contrast. When I was younger, I thought it meant one wasn't real. I'm really not that intense.

No, means I'm a complex human being. Yeah, I love that man. I mean, that's basically, it's humanizing yourself. Yeah. It's the action of humanizing yourself, finding beauty in the contrast. What about this notion of, God, there's so much of your stuff

that like I wanna go three hours and we don't get to, but you also talk about like, people want like a contract with love. Like I want this written. I wanna know it's forever. Sure, a guarantee. But you say something profound and I want you to speak to you say, actually, why don't you love him like it's going to end?

Which people are like, what? Right. Why would I invest in something that is, you know? Right. What happens is if you love like it's going to end, first of all, nothing in this world is permanent, right? But if you like, if you love like it's going to end, you're more present, you're more present, you're

more appreciative, you're less judgmental, you know, and it's like, again, it's not just with our partners. I mean, it's with our parents, it's with our children. We're not thinking about if only this person did this, then it would work, you know, or when we get the house, or we're not, we're not like trying to swim to an island. We're already there. I, you know, one of the things that I made me very miserable with I used to believe that the gold was at the end of the rainbow, like many people. And I would hit pause on life and wait until I got

and back in the day I was a screenwriter. So the three-picture deal, you know, the 9-Eleven, the Hollywood, the house in the hills and all that. And none of that happened. So I was just existing and I was like this cardboard cutout. And then after 35 and I went through this whole rebirth, I realized the gold coins are sprinkled throughout the rainbow.

They're not at the end. And I just miss so many gold coins because I'm just waiting for, you know, and so I hit play on life again and I started to find nectar. I got a hummingbird as a reminder to seek a nectar in the here and now in what you have. And in relationships.

Beautifully said. Yeah, if you really believe that, no matter what you're going through, and no real ship's perfect, but if you really can find the coins in your relationship, instead of like when they get here, or when we start doing this or when, you know, but actually in the here and now finding all the, all the gold coins.

And if two people are doing that, it changes the dynamic very fast. What a beautiful way of saying it. Change dynamic. I'm not going to forget that. That's so good. It's a little cartoony, but anyway, It's visual. For the angry therapist, it's cartoony, but for me, you're right down my alley there. What about the, you call it like the peaceful practice

of noticing certain things in the book? Like just, so what do you mean by the gold coins? Yeah, I think the thing in the book that really, I think my favorite thing in the book is try to understand before trying to be understood, like that hit me. I almost wanted to write a whole book just on that sentence. I suck at that. And I think I can be too.

And I used to be the guy that would steamroll people, try to win an argument, get very logical. I remember this one time I got into fight with my ex because we were arguing about the tinted windows. She was very porcelain skin and I said, why don't you just tint the window on the side and she was like, oh, that's not gonna, we were arguing for hours until she finally broke down.

And I found, and I realized, that's nothing to do with the tinted, she just wanted to be heard, you know? And I was like, well, you know, and I was like well, you know I know this about cars and I was and then at at 35 after many expired relationships and then now with Vanessa One of the things that I remind myself because I fall short off to all the time is when things get heated Okay, take a breath Try to understand before trying to be understood.

Really good. And then if we both do that, oh man, because it's not about how many times you fight is about how you fight. And then it's safe, like the space is safe, right? Then there's compassion, there's love. Well, you change the dynamic, don't you? If you're in a relationship,

because I've been in them and I've been the guy doing it, by the way, so I'm the person where I'm going to win this argument. You almost compel and force the other person over time that then they need to win the argument. And now your relationship is much more about who won the argument all the time. And that's a dynamic like, okay, we're going to disagree. Now we're going to have a fight to see who wins.

But what you're describing changes the dynamic and both people decide to cooperate. Imagine never going into one where each of you are trying to win. Right. What a beautiful, different way to have a relationship. It's hard to do that though. I mean, we all have egos. We all want to win. We all think that we are right. But man, if you do that, the soil for growth is very rich with anyone, with your friends, with your your partner with your kids always trying to understand before trying to be understood. Well, the other thing that you say in the book is that

when you get defensive, I never thought about it this way that you actually shut down the prefrontal cortex of your brain. You know, I never even thought about it that way, which is your place where you're reasoning actually and feeling different things, right? Yeah, you're just very reactive. You're defending. you're holding up shields. It's not you. Yeah. What about this idea of how do you know a red flag compared to like what you call a breaker?

There's this thing in the book like a swing pass the breaker. Oh, yeah, yeah, swing pass the breaker. It's the same. Yeah. And then there's red flags too. So what does swing pass the breakers mean? Yes. How do you delineate or distinguish between that and a red flag?

Yeah, that's a great question. So the breakers, I'm not talking about the switches on your wall. I'm talking about like if you're surfing in the ocean, the waves that are the people surf on are the breakers. And if you swim past that, the ocean is actually calm, right? You know, like it's the, it's the breakers. And so in relationships, I think after the honeymoon stage, you move in with someone and then you realize,

oh, this person is human and they leave their socks on the floor and there's all these things that's gonna, you know, the attachment styles and different and love languages. And you gotta swim past all that. Swimming past doesn't mean to ignore. Swimming past means to work through, to understand, to discover. And then it gets calm because now you've built something

where you feel safe. Most people, or many I shouldn't say most, they get into a relationship, they realize, oh, this person isn't who I thought he was, or you know, we're different in this way. They give up too fast. I mean, you've been with someone for so long. There's no way that didn't require

Swing past a lot of breakers and picking the fights that you want and being honest and and just communicate all that stuff. So building bridges, you know, most people I think especially with today's generation because we everything's customized and everything is instant. We have programmed ourselves to not roll our sleeves up and actually stay in it and work through it. Not suffer, right? And that's a difference. So a red flag is like,

if there's a character assassination or if someone's being abusive, you don't sit in that. You know, that's a red flag, right, right suffering. Yeah, that's yeah, exactly That's great distinction. Yeah, or or even if someone you know, I you know, I think a good sign of characters if someone is Maybe kind to you, but like with bus boys bartenders They're like total assholes. Yeah, and you're like I watch that stuff Yeah, man those little things and you're like that's a character thing big time. Yeah. And you're like, I watch that stuff. Yeah, man, those little things. And you're like,

that's a character thing. Big time. Yeah. Crazy. You say that. No matter who I'm out with, I watch. How do they treat other people? How do they treat other people? How do they treat other people who can't do anything for them? Insert you. Yeah. Yeah. I don't treat someone great who do something for them or who's well known or attractive. Right. But how do you treat somebody who isn't going to do a lot for you? Right. I watch that too. You make eye contact with them. Do you look them in the eye when you talk to them? You think them or you're grateful for them? Are you dismissive to them?

To me, those are huge things. And to me, those can be red flags. But twin pasted breakers, isn't that? Twin pasted breakers is working through our differences and why relationships are so hard. What about dishonesty? What if someone cheated on you? How do you feel about that? And, really, someone physically cheated on you. So cheating, I think, today gets a very, because cheating is complicated, right?

I think it all comes down to intention. And so, yes, cheating is wrong, of course, if you've got your monogamous, but when people say, I didn't do anything wrong, I always asked them. So like if they were cheated on and they want to punch me in the face, after a while I asked them, what was your contribution to that? Yeah. What are you talking about? No, he cheated on me.

I get it. I understand that's what happened. I don't want to excuse that. And what was your contribution to that? Yeah. What are you talking about? No, he cheated on me. I get it. I understand that's what happened. I don't want to excuse that. What do you think your contribution was? And then if they want to answer it honestly and they look back, well, yeah, you know, there was drift. There are a lot of things that I should have expressed, but I didn't, you know, whatever,

you know, and then they start taking ownership. The reason I asked that question is because if you just blame the cheater, there's no way it's salvageable because this person plays victim, you know, and so both people have to take ownership in a relationship because there's two pieces, two parts of any of them. Doesn't mean that one error wasn't more egregious than the other one. I guess is what you're saying, but you could still have contributed to the dysfunction, by the way, and if you don't learn from what you potentially did to cause that, maybe you'll get with someone else,

do the same thing and getting a pretty, say, resolve. Yeah. And cheating like one night at a party because you were intoxicated or met an accident or whatever, which isn't excusable. I get that's wrong as well. It's very different than someone who has been living

two different lives and has been cheating on you for three years with, you know, I'm talking about, as a family with someone else. But I also think, yeah, I also think though, if you're in a relationship and you've made it clear that, hey, if you violate that, this is a deal breaker, then it's a deal breaker. That's, you're allowed to create boundaries in a relationship where you say, listen, if you go do either one of those two things, then it doesn't work for me. And if it's an apartment or that, that's the end. Yes. And along with that's been expressed,

you have every right to leave somebody who's violated a part of a boundary that you've both agreed to. If you've both agreed to that boundary. Absolutely. Let me ask you about comparison. In my life, when I was younger, I would compare times in my life to other times.

And it was never healthy. Oh, you see. Meaning I'd say,'d say, I used to look better here. And I miss when I had this. And comparison seems to me to be the thief of joy. I also feel like in relationship with me, I think everyone should hear this. So you compare yourself to your own self, not to others? Well, I've done both.

So I've done the comparison to my previous self, where I was either happier to give in time, healthier to give in time, younger to give in time, had I liked to, man, I made a mistake, I liked where I lived, why didn't I move? So there's that. Then there's comparison to me and other people. Both of them have been thieves of joy for me in my life.

But then I watch friends of mine in relationships, and they do two things. They compare their relationship to the outward pseudo appearance of another one to use your term. And they compare their current version of the relationship to a previous version of it. Meaning I remember when we went these very good or when we were right and did this or I did that. So what about that in a relationship is there is it ever healthy to compare to a previous to because it's just different time. It's different nuance, there's different information, but I actually think comparison is could potentially be the beginning of the downfall of a relationship. Yeah, absolutely.

I'm going to my response is going to be a little abstract, but it's something I really believe in. I'm gonna, my response is gonna be a little abstract, but it's something I really believe in. I always sell people starting with myself, all parts of your story will be used. All parts of your story will be used. And I remember saying this when I had, I could only afford a donut and star phone coffee, listening to Wayne Dyer,

I had no idea what I was gonna do with my life, you know, in a horrible roommate, and I was like, you know what, I'm in a really bad place right now, and I know that this part's going to be used. So instead of ripping out chapters because things have happened and because they're lying with shame or guilt, right?

It's all going to be a part of this bigger story. And I think our stories are the most valuable thing that we will ever own. I mean, it's what we leave behind that we have created because we live them, right? So it's not, you know, the house isn't a Porsche, it's not that. And if you love those things great, but it's your story. It's your story. And so with relationships, with comparison, going back to that,

if you believe all parts of your story will be used, then when you were the fittest, right? And you thought you were, look the best, great. That's going to be used, but also now what you're going through now is going to be used, right? You're muffin top or whatever you're going through. You know, I'm getting a lot of white hairs. I'm, it takes a little bit more than the wind to get it up these days. I'm feeling older, right? And I know that the, the, the story is going to be used as well,

like this chapter. And when you look at relationships, it's not a constant. Of course, when you guys first met, there was a lot of excitement and you guys were, you know, doing crazy things and it felt like the two kids at the high school under the bleachers. That's great. That's going to be used. But also the chaos now with the kids and scheduling sex

and how hard things are and wondering if there's better, it's all normal too and that's also gonna be part of your story and that's how there's not, you know. I love that, this is gonna be used. I'm stealing that too, like that's something that I need to hold on to. Chapter 17 is, if you're not feeling it anymore. So you're in a relationship right now

and you're not feeling it. What would you say to somebody who's saying that right now? Oh man, yeah, that's, what do they do? Because here's one thing about the book, guys. There's a practice for everything that they come up with. There's an actual practice. So I'm not feeling it anymore. What's my practice?

I don't remember what I wrote in the book. I'd rather know what you think right now. Yeah. But if you're not feeling it anymore, I think it's important to before just, you know, reacting to the feeling, asking why, right, asking, um, was it there before? And if if there was something there, then that can be repairable, what has happened, examining the black box to see,

how the plane went down. Not a lot of people today, oh, I'm not feeling it, we're not meant to be okay, I'm out. Very quickly, and it's like, why are you not feeling it, and how much of that is on you? Like, what are you doing? So always bringing it back to self,

which is the harder thing to do. And the reason why we say stop blaming is because we don't do that, we point to finger. I'm not feeling it anymore because you're not going to the gym. I'm not feeling it anymore because we're not having sex anymore. I'm not feeling it, it's always you, you, you, right? What was your contribution to why you're not feeling it anymore? Because that's where you're going to get a lot of value,

a lot of revelations, and selfishly Because that's where you're going to get a lot of value, a lot of revelations and, and, you know, selfishly, that's where you're going to grow. It's actually also what you said in the book. So great. Oh, I'm not getting that on. I still got the memory. It's, uh, I think it's really easy when you're in a relationship to never look at you. You can look at them and us. So the two, the two perspectives, the pattern is to look at us and them, the other person. So there's two other places to look. You have three choices in a relationship. In real life, I really have two choices. Me or the situation.

But in a relationship, there's three. There's the other person. I can look at them. I can look at us or I can look at me. And almost never do we look at me. Yes. Not knowing that if I could make an adjustment or two with me, it may change us. Yes. And the dynamic. Yes. You know, um, as a therapist, I gotta say, uh, you can't change people,

but you can change the dynamic of the relationship. Absolutely. And that changes people. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Most of them, one of the most profound things ever said on the show, not just because of personal relationships, that's a business relationship, that's a business negotiation. That's you pitching a screenplay you wrote back in the day and trying to get it bought, right? Like, you can't change people, but you can change that, you can change you and how you interact with them, which actually changes the dynamic, right? And then which says change the person?

1000%. A couple of last things because your work is so contrarian, it surprised me that you kind of talked about the five love languages. Because I'm like, this dude is the angry therapist. They've written this book with all this new information and there are a lot of the things we've covered today. Really, one of the themes in your work is it comes back to self, loving self

and then so profound when you said earlier, liking self. Oh my gosh, that my gosh, huge breakthrough. But you talk about the five love languages, some people may or may not know. And even earlier, you said, kind of one of my languages is like constant reassurance and communication. And your partners is necessarily not that way, right? So, yeah, we're very different in our love languages.

So, let people that don't know, talk a little bit about what the love languages are and then your view point on it as it pertains to relationships. Yeah, so the love languages, it's not a clinical thing. It was created by, I believe, Gary Chapman and Holy ****, this book sold like gang with millions and it really resonated with people and the love languages are acts of service, words of affirmation, quality time, gifts, and then there was a little more.

Touch, touch, yeah, yeah. And so usually we have a couple of languages, but we gravitate toward, you know, some more than others. And so for me, I'm definitely words of affirmation, and I'm touched, right? And so my partner, she's all about acts of service. And so if I wrote her name in the sky, she would say, how much was that? You know what I'm saying?

I just wrote you a f**king poem in the sky. And it's like, okay, can we afford it? If I changed her tire or did the dishes, now she's horny. It's so good. Dude, and so I didn't know that, and so before I saw the contrast, I was like, he's gonna work.

Man, like, I need you to write me notes, because I'm writing you notes, and I need you to text me, you know, you know, things, and that's not how she maneuvers. So adapting and learning and knowing your partner's love language is huge, because now on me knowing that hers is acts of service, little things like not forgetting to bring her a glass of water when we both go to bed and putting it on her nightstand

to her that's huge. To me, if she didn't do that, I didn't bother, it doesn't, right? And so her also knowing, so in her calendar, she says like write John something, like as a notification, because that's not how she thinks. And so that's her effort to write me something.

And that really lands for me. So that's why I think it's important. That's why it's in the book is I think knowing your partner's love languages and then doing what you can to stretch, to love her in the way that she wants to be loved. Not, it doesn't mean to like over your own, right? But hit the ball back and forth. And I'm telling you, that is how

you put the call and the how you found the flames. It's literally like speaking a language of love to somebody that you weren't speaking before. It literally is. By the way, just go review this last minute and a half guys and go, what actually you may not even know what yours is, ask yourself, what is yours? What is yours? Right. And then what is theirs? And here's how profound this is. Here's what I think most people make the mistake of. They speak the language that they like to their partner all the time. So like, and by the way, it could be really backward.

So if you're really about touch, right? And this person is not touchy feeling, you're constantly touching it. And they're like, right? Like this is, you literally could be pushing them away by expressing your language. This is not only true in intimate relationships. It's very true in business. Yes. So that you're like, man, I got to have words of affirmation. And so you're constantly feeling someone who that doesn't resonate with, but acts of kindness and service does. And you're just

constantly expressing your version of belief, your version of affection, your version of persuasion, even so to speak. And it's a huge mistake people make because they just assume people are like them. The other false assumption is that they're more right than someone else because it's their language. Because we like people like you should, you should like the poems. You should love poems, right? Like it's a really very, very, very true. So, yeah, as is everything it's really very, very, very true. So, as is everything we've covered today, bro, I love you.

I think you're so, like, I hope everyone looks at the YouTube tube because you don't look visually like a therapist. And I'm not talking about the fact that you're Korean. I'm talking about the fact that you have a long hair and tattoos and you're jacked. The first thing when he walked in, I'm like, holy crap, right? Like, yeah.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I have no one's called me jacked, but I appreciate it. You are jack one's called me Jack, but I appreciate it. You're a jack, you're in great shape. And like, I can tell, you're a dude who's, I mean, this is the highest compliment I can give another person, is you're a work in progress.

No, for sure. You know, you don't present yourself as if you've figured all of this stuff out. I think I say this often in life, but like, if you really want to impress people, try to show them how perfect you are. Yeah. But if you want to connect with somebody and really help them, show them your imperfections.

I mean, that's where that's scary. Yeah. You know, but that's that's all courageous. And by the way, you are a courageous dude and your content is so good, bro. So thank you for being here. I, I also want to say, you know, we live in a father of this nation. And I think, and I was telling you this before the say, you know, we live in a father of this nation and I think, and I was telling you this before the podcast. You know, you as another, as another man because of the locker room and because you're also, you know, jacked and, and, and, and, and,

there's a lot of things that men do that is very competitive and are, they're scared to show themselves and, and even say to another man, hey, I love you or I think you're great, you know, it looks kind of complimented. And so I just applaud the work that you're doing. And I think the reason why your platform is so huge is because you come in human. Thank you, bro. Yeah, yeah. You know what I like? I'm already starting to like you.

Oh. CZ is love you. I mean, like I'm getting to know you, I like you. I like you, brother. Thank you, I appreciate you. You're super unique. You're unique. There's really only one of you. And that's why I wanted you, I like you, really. You're super unique. You're unique. There's really only one of you,

and that's why I wanted you. We should just say this last. Actually, I want to say this, because there is a viewpoint of therapy in life or even relationship. So I hope everyone's still here, because I want them to hear this. There's actually a part that you talk about

where people have this perception of what it needs to look like, and I do want to finish on this. I'm so glad we didn't quite finish. And you say it's kind of like this guy we see on TV who's a therapist and the show's over and he walks down and he grabs his wife hand and they walk off the stage. And you're like, now that's what I want, right?

And I think that's no knock on that guy or anything like that. But like, I think we have this prism or perspective. Like if it's not that way, mine's just not quite as good as theirs. That's the comparison thing. But with this view of what it should look like, you don't resemble that world at all to me. You're like your own guy, your partner who you wrote the book with, I've read about her, same thing. But that's true, right? Like that's not always the picture. No, of course not, man. You know what's more interesting to me is the, that couple wants to go home. They want to slide, was it like, you know,

not walking on the stage holding hands, but when they go home? Yeah, I'm always a little bit like everything that looks good on the surface publicly. I'm always like, man, I kind of like to see a couple fight once in a while. No, I do. I like to see a guy lose it once in a while. Like, hey, man, that's a real person. Yeah, like they're, anyway, that's how I feel about it. But I think you're awesome. So, hey guys,, that's a real person. Yeah, like they're, anyway, that's how I feel about it. But I think you're awesome.

So, hey guys, make sure you get the book. Please go get the book. It's not me, it's you. That's the title of the book, John Kim K. I.M. following him on social media, the angry therapist. Make sure you get the power of one more of my book as well.

And remember everybody, August 22nd, it's probably already out if you've heard this, but if it's not on Nozyy my new show change will change your life Go to nosy get the app or go online to nosy and watch my new show and please share this one today There ain't another one like it. There's not conversations like the one John and I just had happen in anywhere And I know this one's gonna be fire for you. God bless you all max out. This is the end my let's show My Let's Show.