THE ED MYLETT SHOW - Defy The Process Of Aging w/ David Sinclair

Episode Date: February 1, 2022

Most of us want to live as long as possible.   It’s a SURVIVAL INSTINCT that’s hard-wired into our DNA. BUT IT’S NOT ENOUGH TO LIVE A LONG LIFE. OUR QUALITY OF LIFE MATTERS, TOO. Unlocking the secrets to a long, healthy life has CHALLENGED MANKIND since the dawn of medical science.  Those of you who know me, also know I’ve been fascinated by this subject for quite a while, too. That’s why it’s a great privilege to welcome back this week’s guest, DR. DAVID SINCLAIR. He is a LEADING SCHOLAR and Professor in the Department of Genetics and co-Director of the Paul F. Glenn Center for Biology of Aging Research at HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL where he has been teaching aging biology and translational medicine for aging for the past 16 years.  More than that, he is also a foremost researcher best known for his work on UNDERSTANDING WHY WE AGE and HOW TO SLOW ITS EFFECTS.  Contemporary BLEEDING EDGE RESEARCH and scientific advancements have propelled us forward and not only UNLOCKED SECRETS TO LONGEVITY but have also created new questions and curiosities that continue to excite our BEST AND BRIGHTEST MINDS.  And few people on planet earth are as well versed or as educated on this subject as Dr. Sinclair. He lives in a world filled with deep examinations of hormesis, sirtuins, energy metabolism, biosynthesis, mTOR levels, reprogramming genes, mitochondria, learning and memory, time-restricted feeding and caloric restrictions, neurodegeneration, and cancer.   While many of you may AWESTRUCK by this area of science, you should also be EXCITED by Dr. Sinclair’s research, because one day it will have a DIRECT IMPACT on you. This week, we’re going to translate what that research means to you in practical terms…and it’s coming sooner than you think! Dr. Sinclair covers a wide range of topics from red light therapy, to the effects of glucose on our bodies, hormone replacement, and the importance of being physically active, fasting, and not eating meat. We also touch on ALTERING DNA which holds the possibility of significantly extending life, and CURING HORRIFIC DISEASES like cancer, MS, Alzheimer’s, Parkinsons, and many others.Our discussion isn’t just about theories and research though. Dr. Sinclair has also got some HANDS-ON TIPS on what you can do to start to start feeling and looking younger right now. So, sit back, relax, and LEARN.   CLASS IS ABOUT TO BEGIN, and I guarantee, you won’t want to miss it.

This is the Ed Milach Show. Welcome back to the program, everybody. I have one of the smartest men in the world here in the studio with me here today. And somebody that I enjoy is company so much. The last time I was on the show we were both just talking about the fact that we did consume a great deal of tequila prior and during the show. So today you may even get a better program. He is a Harvard professor.

He is the director of Co-director of the Paul F. Glenn Center for Biology of Aging Research at this place called Harvard Medical School. And he is, I think, the foremost expert on slowing down the aging process on the planet Earth today. And one of my favorite guests I've ever had on, he's also the author of the book Lifespan and a bunch of other great stuff we're gonna talk about today.

Dr. David Sinclair, welcome back, brother. Thanks for having me back on. It's good to see you. Good to see you. I'm looking at you and I'm thinking you look younger. And I wanna know if that's a telling sign of aging. In other words, do we look our age? If we look younger, if we look younger?

Are we actually mechanically, medically, biologically younger? Yes. Really? It's really true. There was a study maybe a couple of years ago, they looked at people's biochemistry. You can now measure people's age. You can do the, what's called a DNA methylation clock. It's basically reading the DNA chemicals.

And we can see the age. And then you can match that to how old somebody looks. And this was based on AI interpretation of age. And if somebody looked older, they generally were older internally as well. This whole aging thing, we talked about this a lot on the program before. So describe for us. I think the foundation of your work, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is this concept, the basic concept of hormesis. So I know what it is because I've done a bunch of reading. I've read your book and studied you like crazy, but explain to everybody, what is the basis

of hormesis and why does that impact aging? Yeah. Well, it's similar to what you preach, which is what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And that's basically the biological premise here is that we want the body to be under a state of non-complacency. In other words, I want to make everybody have their body feel as though they could die next week. So you got to trick your body. I mean, you don't want to die next week, obviously, but you want to induce this, you call it hormesis. That's what that's what scientists call it. But basically, it's putting the state, the body in a state of perceived adversity, as

opposed to some of the other things that we can do in life, and that's perceived abundance. And in life, we have a choice. We can live a certain way. Some of them are choices of lifestyle, diet, exercise, hot cold, even mental health. Those things can put you either in the subundant state or adversity state, and it's that adversity hormisus state. That long term is pretty much proven, and certainly in animals, it's known, to extend the lifespan and keep you healthy or for longer. It's not just about living longer, it's got to be healthier. And in fact, often people say, well, why would I want

to live longer if I'm just going to be older for longer? And that's so wrong. What I'm about is, let's prevent and treat diseases of aging by keeping the body younger. And the only way I know how to keep somebody alive for longer is to keep their diseases away. And turns out, if you're not sick and you're not depressed and you've got family, you don't want to die and you don't die. So that's my goal is to keep everybody happy, healthy, productive. When that happens, you live longer. There's very few people. It's funny of all the stuff in the medical world right now. There's this little community, right? Even to this day, you're one of very few people who are really spending their life studying

this topic. It's fascinating. You would think that preventative medicine, preventative health, and others being proactive instead of treating disease instead of preventing it would be what everybody would be into now, but it's really still the way it was 80, 100 years ago. We just treat symptoms still, don't we? Well, doctors do. A trained doctor's, that's where it's come out of history where you have to wait for somebody to be sick to be able to diagnose and then treat. But we live in a world now where we can predict diseases in a way that people a hundred years ago could never do that. And so it's very rapidly changing, not so much at the edge of medicine, but in the consumer health and wellness and people's education of how

to live their lives. And then they go to their doctor and say, hey, have you heard about this? Or, hey, have you seen my latest blood work that I had done myself? It's so true. And the patient isn't now driving the doctor for the most part. It is so true. I mean, that's exactly what I do. And I'm, there's little markers and whatnot. The heart means this thing. I want to stay on that minute.

So is intermittent fasting one of those things? In other words, you've tricked your body into thinking you're hungry. So that is a form of survival mode in your body. Yeah, it is. It is. Time restricted feeding is a better way of putting it. OK.

I watch the difference. Well, intimate. So fasting is. Time restricted feeding is a better way of putting it. Okay. I watch the difference. Well, intimate. So fasting is typically longer than a day can go for a couple of days, three days. I don't do that. I find that too draining on me. So what I do is restrict the time that I eat and I put that down to a few hours a day. So it's if I can help it one meal a day, one big meal. Do you really? Yeah, I try to do that. I've lost a lot of weight. I have a lot better one big meal. Do you really? Yeah, I try to do that. I've lost a lot of weight. I have a lot better blood by chemistry.

My predicted age is younger than it was. You've noticed that I look different and that I think is partly due to the change in diet and not just what I eat, which I've changed, but I also change when I eat and eat. And that's once a day. Is there a particular time every day for you? Yes, dinner. I have a pretty big dinner because I've got to make up for all those calories. But I find that the not snacking and not having this bloated feeling after a meal is just

wonderful. What I've studied myself, I'm a guinea pig and I can measure my blood levels through these continuous glucose monitors, have you tried one? Yes, just finish with one, it's better. Do you find it useful? Absolutely. I learned a lot of the Human Longe longevity center and they had me do that. Right. Well, there are some doctors that are against it. And you know, I tweeted out that it's like saying you're against weighing yourself on scales

in the bathroom. You should be allowed to measure your body. But why would you do that? Well, I did that so I could learn what this fasting or what I call time restricted feeding is doing to me. And I learned that once I did it for three, four weeks, my liver kicked in, my liver woke up and went, oh, I better make some sugar. And it's called glucose neogenesis. And it takes three weeks on average, and you'll feel hungry for three weeks. And if you want to get through that, then it's a wonderful state. I'm now at a state where I don't feel hungry through most of the day. Usually if I snack on something,

it's a bit of chocolate or some nuts because I'm a bit stressed, but I love eating now more than I ever did. And I can have big meals. It's only one a day. But you can go for it. I can go for it. I've gone from a hundred, I'm not a big guy, but I've gone from 150 pounds pre-COVID down to 133. Yeah, you're thinner than the last time you were with me and you look younger than the last time you were with me, like noticeably. I'm curious though, like you're drinking coffee right now. I know you've drank tequila because we've drinking it together. So you do still indulge in things that I've been, most people tell you alcohol is not

very healthy for you. So you still live your life and you can still live a long life and still enjoy it, I guess, because I'm watching you do it, you know, two times we've been together. That's true. The key is moderation. I don't have to be religious about it. I was strictly religious. I think it's okay to have a drink once in a while. Don't overdo it. Don't fry your brain. Coffee, no harm in that. Plenty of goodness in that. You know, usually I'd have a matcha tea or something these days, because there's some extra chemicals. But, you know, in general, it of goodness in that. Usually I'd have a matcha tea or something these days,

because there's some extra chemicals. But in general, it's okay to eat a piece of cake once in a while. That's not going to hurt you. But if you eat a piece of cake every other day or every day, yeah, it'll mount up. The thing that's fascinating is this topic that we're talking about, it's the number one topic amongst me, my friends, even stuff I see on socials, this idea

of living longer and living healthier. Yet, like, this today's show will explode. I already know this what I'm having you on because they're so little real true information about this stuff. And so you're talking about like what you put in your body. Well, I put a lot of stake in my body and I've heard you talk about this, right? So what is, what's an M-Tore level? So I read these things and they could be M-T-R levels.

I just read stuff and then I remember them my way. So what about eating meat and what's an M-Tore level? Am I pronouncing that wrong? You can correct me, but I know that it's important because it's stuff that I heard you talk about before. Yeah, you're pronouncing it correctly. It's called M-Tore. M stands for mammalian.

And TOR is targeted of rapamycin, a drug that extends lifespan. And it does so by turning down MTOR. Got it. So MTOR is a protein, a bunch of proteins that come together in the body. And the role in every cell is to sense how many amino acids are coming in.

And it doesn't measure all 20 amino acids that are in the body. It just senses three main ones. Lucine, isolucine, valine, branch chain amino acids. You'll find them in abundance in meat and some protein shakes for weightlifting, right? And what it's doing is saying to the cell, all right, I got lots of protein put on, let's put on some muscle, let's grow, reproduce. That's the abundant state. So you'll feel great in the short run. And you feel great, you might look great. But for the long run, your body's not putting yourself in this hormesis adversity state,

which is good for long-term health. So I'm experimenting with my body all the time in measuring stuff and I'm optimizing. And I'm currently on a plant-based diet. Now, I really don't like giving up meat. I'm a carnivore, I'm a hedonist, I like alcohol and I like meat. This is good. I would love it if alcohol and meat were the healthiest.

I think meat has lived at 200, right? Really, but I'm a scientist and I also, I believe in data. Not just what I think should be right. And often I think too many people just justify, yeah, I like meat, so it must be good for me. Right. So I'm currently data, not just what I think should be right. And often I think too many people just justify, yeah, I like meat, so it must be good for me. Right. So I'm currently testing the effects. So far, really great effects on my body

from this plant-based diet. But if I had a fish put in front of me and I was socializing or even a steak, no, on occasion, I'll have it. It's not, again, it's not gonna hurt me. But am I gonna eat steak every night? No, no way. Okay.

I don't think the science backs that up to be long-term healthy. You know, am I gonna make it 100-by- to eat steak every night? No, no way. I don't think the science backs that up to be long term healthy. You know, am I going to make it 100 by eating steak every night? I'd say it's quite doubtful, unless you got really good parents and genes, which I don't, by the way. Neither do I. I have to work a little harder. Yeah, that's right. We've talked about that before. So the steak thing is, so this overall, like a lot of people that listen to my show, they're all different sorts, but there are as a segment that really train hard. You know, they lift weights. They're actively very physical.

So I'm wondering two things that we've covered so far, just so I can ask for them, because I'm hearing them say this. One, on the idea that what I'm calling intermittent fasting, which you're calling having these smaller feeding windows, would you still recommend that for someone who's putting themselves under really strenuous exercise? I'm talking, you know, an hour, 90 minutes a day of

strenuous exercise, number one. Number two, can you get enough protein to sustain that sort of muscle tear down and rebuilding without eating meat? It was particularly steak and even, you know, some sorts of chicken. What are your thoughts on those two things? Right. Well, many people have seen the documentary game changes. Yes, I've seen it. It's fine asking you. Yeah.

Well, you can. You have to eat a lot more of plants, tons of spinach, a lot, right? A lot, a lot, a lot. It's really quite a lot. Or you can take some protein. But what's different about plants is they have a different ratio of amino acids

that shuts down the mTOR and then protects the body. Got it. And what mTOR is doing that's beneficial is it mainly what it does is recycles old protein. And as we get older, we build up all this old crappy protein that's oxidized and misfolded, causes Alzheimer's, but it's causing all sorts of diseases. And mTOR, when it senses there's not enough amino acid supply, it'll start recycling your old proteins first, not the young ones. And then that turnover is what fasting is all about.

And if you're eating a lot of meat, you won't turn over the old protein, and that'll build up and build up and build up. So I think probably what we'll find the optimum is, and if you allow me to speculate as a scientist is that It's all about variety and even if you're a steak lover or three meals a day plus snacks and you want to build up your body You'll still benefit from some periods during the week or during the month of Skipping meals and putting your body in a state where it does recycle those proteins and get MTOR to shut down because if MTORs on all the time We know this in animals. They live short. It's like live fast, D-Young. They look great, but they die young.

And I'm all about having a long, healthy life. I know you are. But I think weightlifting is really important. I do it myself, not as much as I should for lack of time, but the benefits there are a huge on male hormones, women as well. You don't just look good, you feel good, you have a bounce in your step. So I'm all for that. Bit of aerobics as well, of course, is essential as well, to get your body into what's called the hypoxic low oxygen state. And that will trigger the same defenses that we're talking about as fasting. And this is the the theme at is that this hormisus effect, it can be triggered in many different ways through the same mechanisms.

One is lack of these amino acids. The other is, I just mentioned exercise and low oxygen, but you can also do a cold plunge, you can do a sauna. There's even hyperbaric oxygen chambers if you heard of these. Of course, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Big thing in California here.

It is. Not so much in Massachusetts, but yet, but what we're doing is putting the body out of its normal, healthy state for a little bit to see. You know, when you wait lift, you're tearing muscle. Right. That's why I want, I think I was hoping you were going to tell me that physical, strenuous training like that is in fact putting your body in that survival hormisus type state. 100%.

Okay. And there's a type of hormisus that's particularly beneficial, which I don't talk about much. So that's good to share it here. It's called myto-hormisis. So you know mitochondria, the power packs of the cell, their little ancient bacteria that swim in our cells, and they can multiply and we want more of is to give them some stress give them some perceived adversity or Hermesus mytohermesis So one way to do that is to exercise Okay, and you'll get free radicals damage the mitochondria. They'll go holy crap. I don't make enough

Energy. It's gonna say money Tell what's on my mind. I need both. Yeah They don't make enough energy and then they multiply and then you get younger. Okay, the other thing you can do is because you're running out of oxygen, those mitochondria get worried that there's not enough and they need to make more. But also having high pressure, high barometric pressure oxygen, this HBOT, I think that it's working in part because it's also causing free radicals in mitochondria and making the mitochondria panic.

So it's interesting, right? You can run out of oxygen by running, literally running, or have too much oxygen. And this, I think it's the same effect. It's those power packs of the cell getting worried that something's out of whack, and they adjust, and it's just like exercise. You get the benefits. And the same is true for all these other things that we do if you're cold. That cold shock will boost your mitochondrial activity. Okay.

So this idea, these cold plunges everybody talks about what you've been talking about for like six years. I didn't do it for that reason. I did it more for the discipline of it, the breathing, the, I'm going to do something difficult early in the morning. It's going to wake up my nervous system. Now I'm finding out that it's going to help me get into this Hormisa state and potentially live a little bit longer. I got to ask you about this because it's just stuff that topics that I keep reading about to keep coming back. AMPK.

Okay. My understanding of it is it helps. It's active somehow in lipid metabolism somehow, right? Am I getting in the right area here? It does both. Okay. It's main role is controlling sugar metabolism. Okay, so sugar. So let's just step back a little bit because you talked about glucose monitor earlier.

And I know that my, both my heart doctor, the people are trying to get me to live longer, they're obsessed with my ability to metabolize glucose and that whole process in the body. And so why does glucose do to us? Why is it important that we metabolize it well or have less of it? Does that cause inflammation in the body overall or are there other detrimental effects in the body from glucose? Yeah. So having high blood sugar is just known to accelerate aging.

There's no question about it. But then why? Yeah. Yeah. blood sugar is just known to accelerate aging. There's no question about it. But then why, why? Yeah, why? So there's a couple of reasons. There's a very simple reason and a very practical explanation, which is that the glucose that circulates in your body can be used for fuel, but it can also inadvertently get attached to your proteins.

OK. Yeah. And then when you've got this glucose attached to proteins, they malfunction. So that's part of this build up, this way you want to have some intermittent fasting, restricted feeding, to turn over these glucoronidated proteins. And one of the ways to measure diabetes is to measure the glucose that's attached to your hemoglobin, which is an abundant protein in your red blood cells. And doctors take that measurements called HBA1C that tells you how much glucose you've

had in your body roughly for the last month, because hemoglobin lasts in the body for about three months and it's turned over. And that number gives you a good idea of whether you've been eating badly and or you've got type 2 diabetes, which is the inability to utilize that blood sugar. Or I don't know if you're actually about or trending towards correct. That's the big, is that not the big thing that most people that are going to go that are having this monitor, they're not probably a type 2 yet, but they're trending in that direction if they don't do something about it.

For sure, and that's why it's important to measure it even when you're young. Right. You don't want it to be going up and up and up. By the time it's, it's your type 2 diabetic, it's often too late. Mm-hmm. And so I measure, I've been measuring mine for the last over a decade. Okay, I'll bet the vast majority of the people that see this have never done that, or do it once every three years in some random lab test that they do, right?

Yeah, so the big deal. Well, doctors don't pay a lot of attention to it until you're old or really obese, so you're starting to show signs of type 2 diabetes, which will accelerate your aging for sure. So that's one problem with glucose. It'll attach to proteins and make them malfunction, and it's a sign of types of diabetes. By the way, the numbers are based on the percentage of your hemoglobin that has glucose attached to it, stuck to it.

Anything below 5% is really great. Between 5 and 7 is pretty and then roughly and then over 7, then you've got to be worried. And your doctor will start to treat it. And one of the drugs that's used, we'll talk about later, I think, is metformin. But what's also important, I think, is to understand that there's probably another mechanism to how this is working, because it's not just about blood sugar. By activating this AMPK, you mentioned. Yes. Actually, I got to take it a real quick step back because there are three main things that

keep us healthy when we feel hormesis or do hormesis. You've mentioned MTOR, which is sensing amino acids. The ones that I work on are called Sir Tuan's. They measure NAD and a whole bunch of stress in the body, exercise diet. The one that we're talking about is the third one, which is called AMPK, and it registers the amount of energy in the body. Glucose and chemical energy, which is called ATP that mitochondria may. Yes. As we get older, our body makes less and less energy, and AMPK is the control system.

And AMPK is activated by a bunch of things, which are include being hungry and exercising or taking the drug metformin. And that's probably why they're all good for you, because it turns on these defenses. This is awesome. Okay, I'm getting it. And so think of your glucose as doing two things. One is sticking to proteins and wrecking the proteins and you need to turn those over by fasting or eating less regularly.

But also, if you always have sugar in your body, high levels either diabetic, we're just eating cake every day or sugar in your coffee, what you're doing is telling the body, there's an abundance right now, and your AMPK defenses are not turned on. Unless you take metformin, which might bypass that. But what I try to do in my life is to turn on all of those three systems, the Sertuan's with boosting an AD, AMPK by taking metformin and exercising, and then the MTOR, not taking an abundance of those three amino acids I mentioned, loose and I, Lucy and Vailin. And together, I think they work as a system. We know they talk to each other.

Yeah. And you tweak one, the other works. We don't know what the optimal combination is. Yeah. That I'm experimenting on myself as a... Or depending on you, brother, all of humanity is waiting on you here. So let's go. But I want to step back in here.

If you're listening, you're learning a ton for most of you. And for me,'s just stuff like hey, I'm gonna investigate this M-tor stuff a little bit more I'm gonna start to learn more about it if I was you this ampk What is glucose doing in my body start to learn about these things and then now we'll step back and get a little bit practical Just for a second here. I want to ask you some specific things. So I just detailed stuff You mentioned earlier this idea of hyperbaric oxygen I've had someone on the show who's this proponent of doing cardio with oxygen under, so getting oxygen under load, meaning that when you're taking his big oxygen tank that I do it, and I take this

oxygen under load, but one of the other things that he's a proponent of is following that, and there's a protocol before it as well, is red light therapy. I'm wondering if you've done any reading about red light therapy, any research on it and just straight up what are your thoughts on red light? Because it's sort of like, I don't know if it's the new thing, but it's kind of like the new thing, right? Well, it's my job to stay up on these things and even to try them myself. It brought a smile to my face when I was reading the science on the red light therapy. And the hyperbaric oxygen and oxygen, high oxygen under, under training you do. Yeah, under load, just load, you know, your under stress.

Got it. Yeah. So they all point to mitochondria again. Even the red light, there are scientific papers that I could pull out that show that red, the red light at that, at that wavelength is disrupting the ability of mitochondria to make energy. The way mitochondria make energy is that it's like a hot potato they take electrons and they pass them along.

Red light disrupts that and then you have low energy and your AMPK system detects low energy and starts to give you the health benefits because it's worried that you're going to run out of energy. So, light, oxygen, hunger, simulating low energy, or in some cases actually is low energy. Good. So, I'm doing the right thing. So, in English, in layman's terms, red light probably good. Well, for sure, I mean, it's been shown to protect against hair loss and improved skin. So there's something to it. I tried shining some red light on some nematode worms

to make them a little longer, it didn't work. But that was a few years ago. I think there's a lot more data now that it's likely to be working similar to exercise and fasting, but through a light mechanism, which is actually easier. Sure. And stimulating stem cells. Yeah, you can buy a cap.

You can get a cap that you put on your hair. I mean, you probably seen it, not you, but most of you have. Yeah, I lose my hair and I did it. And then I've also, I lay in a red light bed. They're very expensive. So it's not something everybody can do. You can go to a spawn, do it yourself, you know, and pay every time you go. But I have actually acquired one of those beds.

So. Have you noticed that they don't have? I have, I'll be honest with you. I've noticed, I've noticed, well, I mean, everyone can judge, I know it's a little bit of improving my skin, but I've noticed a difference in, I think the two things I've noticed for me, and they could be completely anecdotal, right?

But I've noticed certainly an improvement in my skin, but I've noticed my sleep is better an improvement in my skin, but I've noticed it. Um, my sleep is better. Um, and I would say that my overall ability to sustain energy has been better. And frankly, I have not gained weight, even though my diet deteriorated since I've begun. It's not something I'm proud to admit on the show, but I'm a pretty, pretty, uh, you know, focused guy when it comes to what I eat and I put in my body. And I've went through a little window here the last three or four months where I just wasn't as Dilligent or vigilant about it and I've not gained weight and I don't know that any of that is Connected to the two, but it's certainly something that I've experienced since I've been doing it. Oh

Yeah, and then and how long do you spend in the light? The cycles are usually 15 to 20 minutes and I like I try to do it twice a day Oh, and my bed has different settings, you know, ones for immunity, one can be for energy and things like that. And I just, you know, it's one of those things that you're doing, you're like, am I wasting my time here, or is there some benefit to it?

So I'm glad to hear that at least the studies say that there is. Yeah. Okay. Good. Well, that's some of the things we can do that are beneficial. So we'll get to practical stuff people can do. First thing is that we talked about this

the last time you were here, but you know, telomeres has been sort of one of the newer age or was ways of measuring aging. And you sort of told me, nah, that's not it. How do we, you said my, my real age is younger than, or your, your actual age is younger than your real age. How are you measuring that? How is one measuring age now? Well, a couple of ways. I've been working with a company and in disclosure, I am an advisor to them inside tracker. They came out of MIT, saw them about 12 years ago, joined their board. I'm not on there anymore, but have nurtured this company because I really believe in it. What they do is it's a blood test.

You can have it done at your local lab core request or even have someone come to your kitchen, which is what I do. I do it every three to six months and it's a dashboard on my body. And then those 40 measurements of things that I mentioned, like HBA1C, there's other things like CRP for inflammation, of course, blood glucose levels, there's testosterone, vitamin levels. It's a compendium that put into an algorithm that's based on how these things change over time with age for your sex and I guess you're you're you're race and other things. And then it's back calculated to say, all right, compared to other humans on the planet,

are you older or younger than them? The average male. So I have plotted myself for all of these parameters, individually and as a compendium, as an algorithm, for one score called the inner age 2.0 score, where do I sit compared to other 52-year-olds that are white Caucasians? You're so young here. And I'm better in terms of that number than 98% of people my age.

And that 2% bothers me. I'm very competitive. And I'm working to get it higher. I want to be, I think there's one or two people out of thousands that are better than me. But I did go off a statin just to check because I was losing my memory. Yeah. I am on a statin now. Okay.

But I went off it and my cholesterol spiked so your cholesterol did spike it did I mean that I need a statin. It's in my genes. My father my grandmother had them on one as well. Oh, you are yeah Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say if you don't have any problems and you can't if you can get it down with diet do that Because there are effects on the brain and one of them is memory Yeah, one of the other things too is that your cholesterol can get too low Your LDL can get too low and that's not healthy for your brain either. Correct. That's really true. Yeah. And so, yeah, I'm just saying, why it's too, in the top 2%, not 1%. Right. Right. But anyway, that people are going to think I'm a little bit

too competitive. But I have plotted my blood by chemistry over the years against the average human and optimized each one. And it takes it's an experiment. It's long term. You can't just do it overnight. But I think that's what modern medicine should be, is that we're constantly monitoring ourselves, not going to the doctor once a year for a check-up where they say, how do you feel?

You're sleeping. You feel like, I can't go home. That's not medicine. Yeah. So that's therapy. Yeah. My medicine is, and the future of medicine, and for some people who want to invest in this on, and put in their time and money, you can get devices to read your body continuously.

We've talked about continuous glucose monitors in our arm, but there are rings. I've got this. I've got the ring too. I'm not wearing it today. I've got the ring. Yeah. There's a bio button. I brought one today in case this came up. I'm holding up a little gray

squareish device that is maybe 1.25 inch thick that I stick on my chest usually and it measures my heart, my vibrations, my movement. And this thing can tell you if you can have a heart attack next week, kind of important. But other things, it can even tell you if you're if you have a cold or a flu or whether you need antibiotics or not. And this is the future. I raised this actually as an example of, of the way medicine should be, which is, you are monitored not once a year, but a thousand times a second. And when that's going to be ubiquitous, then the old way of doing medicines,

it's going to seem medieval. It's so true. And, you know, guys, I'm fortunate enough that I have that as well. And it's things like, you know, why do you want things monitored? Because the truth is most cancers caught early are very treatable. It's catching them late. That's a problem. Heart disease caught early is treatable.

Like we've talked about with, you know, statins or anything like that. And I'm not making any medical recommendations nor am I a doctor nor am I even close to that. And that's why I want to ask you some medical stuff now because I know that you don't feel good about a couple of the things that I do and I want to ask you about why. So let's talk about things that we can do. So you talked a minute ago about hormone levels. And so I have been on and I know what you're going to say, but I want you to explain your point of view on this to the audience. Full transparency, the audience knows this. I've been on testosterone, some form of testosterone replacement therapy. My gosh, scubbie 10 or 15 years.

And I know that that testosterone, at least in my case, negatively, we're getting real detailed here, but you can negatively impact HDL, for example. It can suppress HDL, which mine is already genetically pretty low. So there's a danger HDL being your good cholesterol. I know that that's a negative to me taking the testosterone. Having said that, I watch friends of mine that

I know that are in their 70s that have been males that have been on testosterone therapy for say 20 years. And I compare that visually to somebody like my father who passed away last year. And visually, externally, these guys that were on testosterone look 20 years younger than my dad did. And so this, I'm not arguing with you, but I want to understand it. That's why the first thing I asked you today is if you visually look younger, are you likely to be internally younger? Because visually, if you take somebody like a very well-known actor that most people know has been open about taking testosterone, who's a friend of mine makes a lot of like boxing movies and stuff right and so you compare him to

my father who is about the same age and visually they really look like different species almost at that age. So what are your thoughts about hormone replacement and if you're not for it which I think you probably aren't specifically why. Well, I'm all for keeping your hormones at young levels. Okay. I'm all about keeping the body the way it was when it was 20. And however you can do that, and it's safe, do that. Okay. So I'm on board with hormone replacement therapy for women and men, if needed. Okay. But you think maybe not needed. I'm interrupting you. Well, that's the point that I have tried my best to find ways in myself to build up. So you're 52.

You're in that 300 to 700 range of testosterone in your body you're saying right now, your hormone levels are that normal in your 50s without any. I'm actually naturally higher than average 20 year old, but naturally meaning I've worked at it, by the change things in my diet, I've done things and it's gone. What are some of those things? Well, exercise helped building up,

not as bulky as you, that's for sure of it, but from my basal state, which was pretty puny to having some muscle, my quad's mainly big muscles, back muscles as well, doing deadlifts, this kind of stuff. So that helped a lot. Got it up to, was it hovering around 500. Okay.

It's gone close to double that over the last couple of years with changes to my diet, changes with supplements. But I don't actually, I can't tell you scientifically, one of those has contributed but it steadily gone up which which is good If I did plummeted I would have stopped taking X whatever it was okay But it's I'm happy with these numbers. So it's just under a near a thousand now. My god, it's amazing It's it's shocking actually because I haven't done anything obvious. You know, you read in online what boost testosterone. I'm not doing a lot of that stuff.

So I guess I'm lucky now. So that was one of the genetic good hand you were dealt compared to some of the other stuff that wasn't so favorable. That's because that's unbelievably high for 52 years old. Yeah. Well, so you know, I want to be helpful practically. So some of the things that I do are so this fasting has helped. I think that when I started, well, I don't call it fuzzing, eating once a day,

one meal a day. I got you calling it fasting. Yeah. That's okay. People know what it, what that is. O M A T A G is the other way to do it, to call it one meal a day. But that seemed to help. And so also, becoming, giving up a lot of fat and a lot of meat. Now, that's not going to sound good to everybody I know. I would often. I don't know. Yeah, but I think that that's helped. And I did lose weight. And that may have contributed to, right? I mentioned, how much weight I've lost.

But here's the thing, I don't think it's a bad thing to supplement at all. I'm not against it. I think what you're doing is perfectly acceptable. But I heard you say something about burning the candle at both ends. What did you mean by that? Yeah. So it's an abundant signal. Testosterone is, okay, yeah, times are good.

Build muscle. But then I have to look at the clinical data. And while it won't extend your lifespan, and that's really clear, there have been probably $50 million worth of clinical trials saying that testosterone won't make you live longer. It will help you have more muscle,

which will prevent you falling over and breaking your bones, which is a problem, for most elderly, So that's good. But there's also not a lot of downside. There's very little, if any, that I've seen. There's not more cancer. There isn't. No.

So put it this way. It's not going to hurt you. If you feel better and you're stronger and you look better, you know, by all means. And this is why doctors prescribe it. Otherwise, you know, there'd be a warning. But is it going to make you live longer? Doesn't look like it, unfortunately. One of the challenges I think with it is that, you know, for most people, if some is good, a whole bunch is better. And what I find with people that start to take hormones is you need to be, I think it can become a form of an addiction. And that you're like, well, I'm at 800, I look like this.

Let me get this thing to 1500 and see what I really look like. And then there are some unhealthy things, your hemoglobin levels, things like that that you've mentioned already. There are things that can get out of whack that, if you're not, you know, you're really careful with it. So that's some of the stuff. I just wanted to ask you that because it's been very common for women to become on, you know, some form of hormone replacement

too. And in my own case, my last labs, I was only at 400 with supplementation. And one of the negatives, I think certainly for me, is that my own body has probably made a decision that it doesn't need to work at it anymore or produce it because I've got this exogenous stuff I keep shoving in my body. So I do know that once I've made that commitment, I'm sort of committed for life. So there are some, I'm not prone to it or of it necessarily. I wouldn't, I was certainly wouldn't recommend starting until you need to until those levels

are lower. And here I am telling you what I propose, which is a really fascinating part of the interview. So, so we've got that. How about any of the peptides? So I'm curious about growth hormone. Yeah, you're nay. Nay. Nay.

Why? Well, because there's a lot of evidence, both human and mouse, that when you have low amounts of growth hormone, you live longer. And well, again, it's this abundance versus adversity. You'll feel better with growth hormone. You'll heal better. But long term, all the evidence points to the opposite that having low levels of these growth signals is better for you.

Tumor wise as well. This M-tore pathway thing, part of the other part of it is its impact on tumors, right? Is there some relationship between those two things with tumors and does growth hormone impact the size of the tumors? It's only everything in your body to grow, for example, potentially. I mean, potentially, but fortunately, there's not a lot of evidence

that growth hormone does cause cancer. Okay. So I would say that, but can it cause a cancer in your body to grow potentially? Well, if you've got one, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's part of the downside of all of these treatments is that it's all fine until you get it to And then you could actually help the tumor

Do you feel the way about testosterone or are you saying that about growth hormone or both growth hormone more? Just trying to think that it's fine. Okay. I know this is stuff. You don't normally get asked That's why I wanted to go there Sure And then the other thing that I take that I think keeps my, I think, at least, let's say, the evidence points to, I have to speak like a Harvard professor sometimes, is that by activating these other enzymes that are the second component out of those three, the sort of two enzymes I work on, you can activate those by doing the kind of things I do in my life, but I can also take a supplement

Which raises NAD capital NAD and there are people are taking IVs of NAD Supplements, it's a big thing it was discovered in my lab in part What about 2002 when I was a kid? But it's now a big thing and the reason that NAD is Popular is that it activates these serotones. And we have seven of those in the body. We talked about this last time.

The seven serotones are the protectors of the body. There are three of them that protect the DNA. And the clock slows down, we think. And then some of them are in mitochondria. There's three there. And then there's one that floats around in between, in the water that's in between all of that. And then there's one that floats around in between and in the in the water that's in between all of that. And that's number two. Now, 32 controls hormone production. And if you give it to cells,

they'll make more androgens. And one possibility is that reason my testosterone is doing pretty well, is I've got super high NAD levels because I've been supplementing for about seven years now with an MN, which is a precursor to NAD. Say there. Okay, I want to go there. So that was the next thing on my list was NAD. So of the people that I know that look freakishly and unusually young for their age that I have met and say the last 36 months. I cannot get over how many of them have told me that I'm on NAD and I'm on Metformin. And I'm talking about everywhere from a gym to a golf course to a business meeting. And I'm talking about visually, shockingly looking young people, mainly people in their 50s that look like

they could be in their 30s or early 40s to me. So when you say NAD, do you believe in the IV therapy? Do you believe in the stuff you can inject with subcutaneously? Or are you speaking specifically about this precursor that you were referencing? Well, what I believe doesn't so much matter, but the scientific evidence points to taking a supplement every day, a gram of NMN, which is precursor, stands for nicotinamide mono-nucleotide for the aficionados. Just swallowing one of those, or a thousand milligrams, is enough to double your NAD levels in the bloodstream and triple it if you take two grams. Now I'm 52, so if I'm an average human, I would have half the levels of this NAD molecule

than a 20 year old. So doubling it is the goal for me. So I've been taking a gram of NMN, soling it every day, or, you know, the last, whatever it is, doesn't use seven years at least. Then the question is, what about the NAD IVs? There's very little data on that. Yeah. I would say that I have tried it.

I've found that it felt fine, especially afterwards during it. Have you tried it? I have. I've got a little cramping in the tummy area. It does? Yes. I've found that on the IV, and also I've taken it sub-Q, and I get a real burning uncomfortable sensation on my stomach.

It's ironic that you say that. It's exactly my stomach. It's ironic that you say that. It's exactly my experience. So there's some evidence that it's good for treating addiction, but really no solid scientific evidence that it helps in other ways yet. But that doesn't mean it doesn't help. It just means that doctors haven't done enough placebo controls. And it's hard to give people a placebo, especially if they're paying for it. So I would say the jury's still out, but the science, I think, is there that it should activate the certunes, kick them into action, and at least for those few hours that you're getting it, and it'll go up probably double triple the levels in your bloodstream. It'll help, but I don't know long term.

I'm so fascinated by this stuff as everybody can tell. So you're getting stuff here, you don't get most other places you guys. So these are just things to think about. These are not necessarily recommendations, things to think about. Then there's Metformin. And so just, I must say this to you, you and I met, this is a passion of mine.

I've also had a not great genetic candidate. By the way, guys, there's all kinds of stuff we could talk about on genetics today that you can get studied right now to see if you're predisposed to heart disease or different cancers, you can even find out if it came from your mother or your father's side. There's all kinds of things you could figure out right now. My genetic can is crap.

It's just mom and dad's side and both not good and both cancers and heart disease. So when I met David originally, this conversation really mattered to me. And so I did start on metformin. I this is just me personally. I'm telling everybody my own medical stuff. I did start on the precursor for NAD and I've tried the IV stuff

and I've tried the sub-Q stuff myself. So metformin helps with glucose in the body, somehow the metabolism of glucose, correct? So why do you think metformin works? And do you feel real strong like you did last time that you're here about it? Yeah, I feel even stronger. There's a lot of data from looking at tens of thousands

of people that went on metformin. And people who go on metformin who have type 2 diabetes who normally would live a short lifespan because they have more cardiovascular disease, they're aging faster. They're actually protected from these diseases relatively, and those type 2 diabetics on metformin live longer than people that don't have type 2 diabetes. That's a remarkable observation.

And because once you start to study tens of thousands of people, it starts to look real. And especially for those people that are predisposed like you are a cardiovascular disease and other issues like cancer, they're it's very clear that metformin on average protects you against those diseases because it's not just working on keeping your glucose levels down. Remember, it's turning on the mitochondrhoemesis and protecting the body through these defense mechanisms. Now, people might be thinking, well, okay, you've got these protective mechanisms, but what are they actually doing to make your healthier? Well, I've mentioned only one of the things they do, which is turning over those old proteins that are either oxidized or have glucose stuck to them, but they do other things. They do protect

telomeres when you turn them on, but they do another thing that's really interesting, and that is that they can rejuvenate stem cells. And so you get stem cells protected and then they can divide and then they can repopulate the body. Another thing that they do really well, particularly the sartoons, is that they help repair broken DNA. Anyone who's been in the sun, I was Australian, I've been damaged badly by the sun. That ages you. It actually is, we know that damage to DNA accelerates aging. In my lab, we can cause a mouse to be 50% older by doing this process. The Sertunes will slow that down.

We had a paper in science in 2018 that showed that by raising any D levels, by giving mice NMN, say molecule that I take, their DNA repair systems were much more efficient. And if you damage them with radiation, which we were trying to simulate space radiation, but it's also similar to cosmic rays that you get if you fly a lot, which I know you do,

NMN was protecting those mice from the damage. And you can see the damage, you look in their livers, there was damage damage damage in a normal mouse and give the NMN, and it wasn't there for the most part. So that's another way it can protect against aging. So good. So good. We're going to keep going because I love this. Any disclaimers on any of this that we've said so far that you would say to somebody

who says, I'm going to get on this metformin or any D. Is there any disclaimer or any downside? Anything that you would advise them to do just so that I make sure everyone's heard the totality of your thoughts about it. Yeah. Well, one disclaimer is I'm actually not a trained physician. I train physician, but I'm not a trained physician. I'm a PhD who studies molecules. And so there's that. So anytime you want to change something in your body, even if it's diet, but if it's

a supplement, and of course a drug, you need your doctor, you want to consult them. So your doctor needs to know everything that's going on in your body because supplements are sometimes just as powerful as drugs. And if you cannot get, for example, this is a good point, I think, to bring up is if you cannot convince your doctor to get metformin, there is an alternative. And you know what I'm going to say, it's a plant molecule called burberine from the burber plant. And if you're in clinical trials, if you take it at two grams a day, it does lower blood glucose similar to metformin. And that you can buy it on, you know, any pharmacy or online. Yep.

That's where I began. After we did our interview, I went to my doctor and I said, we're getting on metformin and she said, no, we're not not right now not yet and And so that's where I began and then after a period of time she did a little bit more research and agreed If you've done any reading on mots see At all I've done more than reading. Okay. What do you know about mots see mots see? Well, I know the scientists involved and I helped them start a company Come on now really? Okay, I'm kind of embedded in this field. I know, but this is all around.

I'm older than you might think. So Motsie is really interesting. I really like it. Okay. I like it so much. I started a company. So Motsie is a super interesting molecule from an academic standpoint,

and from a physiological standpoint. Motsie is made not by the DNA from the DNA in the nucleus, which is most of our chromosomes. It's from the chromosome that's in mitochondria. It's a mitochondria because they're like these bacteria. They have their own circular DNA. It's not a chromosome, it's a circular. And embedded in that circle piece of DNA in the mitochondria is a little gene called MOTC, capital MOT-C.

And the mitochondria make this little peptide, a little piece of protein, peptide is just a small protein that gets leached out into the bloodstream and tells the rest of the body that a certain part of the body is experiencing hormesis. So when you exercise, your body is secreting MOTC into the body, that a certain part of the body is experiencing hormisus. So when you exercise, your body is secreting motse into the body, and motse is really small, you can synthesize it, and you can even get it. I don't know if it's still available in the US, but it's in clinical trials right now in this company. It's called Kobar COHBAR.

And it's looking promising as a treatment for fatty liver, but hopefully other age-related diseases. Maybe even plaque removal and stuff like that, right? And there's all kinds of fascinating stuff. So I'm so glad that we got a chance to talk about all this stuff today. Okay, so some practical stuff just for a second or exciting stuff. CRISPR. We've talked a little bit about CRISPR, but this concept, where are we at able being able to actually alter DNA? Like I've had some friends of mine that are, you know, knew I was going to be talking to you today and they're like, please get like the update.

So every, tell them everyone here what CRISPR specifically is, but where are we at on our, where, right now, where are we? And if you were to forecast say within the next five years, where do you believe we are unable to actually alter DNA that way? Yeah. Well, right now it's, it's possible to add genes to humans. We've cured not we, but scientists and doctors have cured genetic diseases that way. So credible. Blind people are seeing again. Yes. But it's only a small, it's thousands of people. It's not millions yet, but we are getting better at it. And eventually, probably in certainly in this decade, we'll see people being able to add genes to their bodies more commonly. But CRISPR is different. CRISPR

is not adding genes. It's actually changing your genetic makeup permanently. And so where we're at is there are some genes or some studies that have shown that it works in humans. You can correct sickle cell, anemia, and fix that. That one's a little easier because it's in the bloodstream, trying to fix Alzheimer's with CRISPR is going to be a lot more challenging. The blood is easy to access. And the way we do it is we put a CRISPR system, which is an enzyme that we can direct to

change the DNA with a barcode. So our DNA has different letters, the six feet of this DNA molecule in every cell, and there are these four letters, ACTG, and they're in different sequence. And what CRISPR does that's kind of incredible, if you think about it, is that you can give it a code that says go find the sequence that's ATG C-A-G-C and it'll find it in billions of Combinations in that six foot and go in and just change that It is it's a bar code and

And so I would say in the next five years it it'll be fairly common to fix genetic diseases with CRISPR. And then things get really interesting when we start to fix things that aren't genetic. Maybe we want to all fix our predisposition to diabetes. We could potentially go in and fix that before we actually get that disease and make up for not having great genetic lineages. If you put a time horizon on that, what would you think something like that would be? Well, probably for the healthy people, it's going to take longer. Doctors would rather do no harm than do good. And so that's probably 15 years away from being mainstream.

There are other technologies, one called SIRNA, which is similar, but it actually stops the production of protein rather than changing the genes. It's one step down. And that's being shown, and there's a drug on the market to treat high cholesterol, and even there's a drug for fatty liver. And so increasingly, we were able to change the genetic code or the codes that are coming off the genetic code, which is RNA, which we all have heard about because of COVID.

Right. But yeah, it's amazing that we can now read the DNA and rewrite it. And in my work, we've just recently figured out how to turn on three embryonic genes in the body. Okay. And when we do that, just the right three genes, that resets the age of the tissue and it gets

rejuvenated. Are you kidding me? This is what you're doing right now. So in addition, I'm just processing all this. I think when we first talked about this, I'm like, yeah, they'll be in there. Like the adding genes thing, they'll do a little of that, but like to actually alter the genetic sequence of somebody, that won't be in my lifetime. And you're saying that you believe

that in some form of that will be in the next five-ish years, we'll be doing that? Well, there are patients already that have had it done, but for it to be mainstream. Yeah, five to 15, depending on the disease. I mean, we're more severe the faster the FDA acts. What are the, what are you most excited about right now? Like in your work, what are you just, this is the stuff

I'm the most excited about right now. That's easy. Your face just changed too. Oh, it's easy. It's easy. Yeah. So we published a year ago on the cover of Nature magazine, which is the highlight of any scientist's career, that we could reset the age of a complex tissue.

We chose the mouse's eye. We let mice get old and blind, and we reprogrammed their eye using these three genes, they called OS and K for short. And we turned the age back 80% and they became, they were able to see again. And so what we're talking about is having found that there's a reset switch in the body to be young again. And the information in the body to be young is still there. So theoretically you could take someone who's a hundred years old and reset their body to be young again. Now the exciting thing is we've been doing clinical trials or pre-clinical trials. And there's no apparent downside to this year. Isn't that great? That's incredible. Yeah. And so I went home that day and I said, hey, we've cured blindness and my family

went, yeah, can you just unpack the dishwasher? That was a sad day. That's when I knew I could never impress my family. But we have been working ever since. So we first made this discovery about three years ago. It ended up being in my book a little bit of it. And it was a thrill to make this discovery. But since then, we've been doing hard work, which is to figure out, is it safe enough

to put into humans? And we're now testing it in non-human primates just to see if it's safe. And if all goes well in the next two years, we'll hopefully cure blindness in people. That is absolutely freaking incredible. There's absolutely bananas. But it gets better. Okay. The eye was just something we chose. I didn't think it would work any better in the eye. In fact, I thought it probably worked worse. But we found there's universal reset switch. so you can reset different parts of the body. You can reset the skin, we've shown you can reset muscle. You can reset, what have you done?

Yeah, the skin was easy. So using the same genes, so we're just basically turning on an embryonic program in older people, middle aged, in their cells and and in mice and they get young again. What does this mean? This means one day it's going to be possible to reset the age of the body. We've done that. We've done that in mice. Now a question is how soon can we get it into ourselves? That's bananas. Is there, here's the, here's the guy that grew up with skeptics all over his house. Let's assume that that's true. Did everyone just hear what he just said, by the way, that we may able to reset the age of a human. We've already been able to do this now and other organisms.

That's, that's a minute to process that, right? And as I process it, I go, wow, that's exciting. I hope I can live long enough so that I can reset my clock. That's the key, right? The stuff we talked about today, the eating, the exercise, what's the other thing, hot cold. These are designed and the supplements to keep us all alive until this technology becomes available. Because it's not just one thing to slow down aging, which we can do pretty easily, just by doing these lifestyle changes, but to reset the age. There's a study from UCLA that's crazy. It gets crazy. There's a study by Steve these lifestyle changes, but to reset the age. There's a study from UCLA that shows...

It gets crazy. It gets crazy. There's a study by Steve Horvath and Greg Faye was published during the first few months of the pandemic. They treated people for a year with a combination of metformin, a bit of growth hormone, and DHEA to offset some of the problems with growth hormone that can cause type 2 diabetes. And they found that when they measured the clock of the body, it went back by about two years. And at the time, I thought, yeah, okay, two years, that's not a lot. But then I

started thinking, if you could do that every year. Right. Right. That'd be pretty interesting. You're literally aging in reverse. Right. Right. And I don't know about immortality. I'd just be happy with an extra 10 years of healthy life or even two years. But we're at a point now where we're able to control aging pretty easily. In my lab, we can drive aging forwards and backwards in my set.

Well, aging is malleable. Now that we have an understanding of how it's controlled and what causes it. And we even have many brains in the lab. We can take human cells so that I can take your skin cells. I can make them into stem cells that are pluripotent, meaning I can make anything from you. If I wanted to, and this is not kidding, I could make a sperm out of your skin cells

and an egg and fertilize that. So you can clone me. I could clone you, I won't do that, cause it's illegal, but biologically we could do that. I'm gonna get all sorts of fun causes. You are, there we go. I'm gonna get the sorts of fun cause. You are, there we go. I'm gonna get the email. From the take, can you clone me?

Yeah. No, but what's important is I can make organs, mini organs from you and test drugs. And I could, what we're doing in the lab is we have, Wow, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Personalized medicine. Yeah.

Wow. So when you come to my lab and you have to promise, you're gonna come, I'll show you, we grow these mini brains in the lab. And we've got them from people that are predisposed to Alzheimer's or not. And we have a way to age those brains so that they're now 80 years old,

even though they're only a few months old. And they lose their ability to fire electrically. They become demented in the dish, little mini brains. On Instagram, I've shown some photos of these, they're pretty cute. And so we give them Alzheimer's and dementia in the dish, little mini brains, on Instagram, I've shown some photos of these, they're pretty cute. And so we give them Alzheimer's and dementia in the dish. And then what we do is we have the system to turn on those three embryonic genes, OS and K, and those brains go back in age, but here's the cool thing, Alzheimer's goes away. They get the electric activity comes back. Now we do this in a mouse, we make the mouse older, just let them age out or we accelerate it. And we've been now reversing the age of those brains in the mice.

And you can guess what happens. They get their memory ability to learn back. Unbelievable. Do you hear what you're saying? It's unbelievable. This is my day job. So it doesn't seem that exciting, but it is when I talk about it. If the most exciting stuff, listen, we're in this time where there's all this doom and gloom about, you know, our wellness and health and the pandemic and all these other things and that stuff to be very cognizant of and pay very close attention to, but right with the same time, I feel like Sergey Young and I were talking about this too,

who I know you, you know, Sergey and like, Sergey as well. It's almost like, man, if you can find a way right now to stay on this planet healthy for the next 10 or 20 years, if you can manage to do that, that there might be an extension of your life at a magnitude of another 20 or 30 potentially healthy years, possibly. And you said 10 earlier, you just find a way to extend your life and the finding the way is what we're describing, the hot and cold, the not eating so dad got much, right? The look of really getting sure about your glucose and how you process it in your body and taking a look at this metform and an AD and these other things.

And if you can really start to get that stuff together and exercise and eat healthy and put the right foot, there may be a completely different world we're living in and a matter of a decade. Yeah, exactly right. And already because technology is changing so fast already and it's only going to go exponential. Every year that you stay alive, you get another three months of life. Right now.

Right now. Stay alive because eventually it's going to be forever you stay alive, you get another year. And eventually you're going to have negative birthdays. Come on. It's, it's, I used to say that this was futuristic. You did. This is why it has so much credibility with me. And eventually you can have negative both those. Come on, Dave. That's... No, I used to say that this was futuristic. Yeah, you did.

This is why it has so much credibility with me. You used to say many years ago, this is far off. This is possible. So for you to be the one telling me, now here's the window that it's possible in. Probably, they're possible. Well, I've got some of the best scientists working with me on this, not just Harvard,

but in companies who know how to make drugs. So this isn't just, oh, one day it'll happen. There's investors. There's investors. Other investors have jumped in. So Jeff Bezos and others have put large amounts of money. There are billions now to figure this out. So even if I don't make it, I don't have a heart attack, but if I do, you know, the genie's out of the bottle.

This is going to happen. It's just a question of when. What it means to be, I'm just thinking myself as your target, what it means to be a human being, it's going to potentially be very different experience within a decade. What it means, and all of the, just of the pain and suffering so many people have gone through in lives with cancers and heart disease and losing people that are still here to Alzheimer's and things like that to think about the quality of life and people ask me all the time. I was just on a call before we did this with a coaching group I have with all of the stuff going on in the world right now. And I told them I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic about humanity.

I'm optimistic about life. I'm optimistic about our world. And that's not polyanna. I have reasons to believe it. And you, my friend, are one of those reasons I just learned from you and feel so inspired. Is there a negative to people living so much longer? I think of things like food supply or things like that. Do you ever think about those things?

Like we got to be really careful here because there might be an issue we've not factored in. In other words, do other technologies need to be keeping pace if humans are going to live longer? Yeah. The answer is yes, and that's the subject of my next book actually. How do we get out of this mess that we're in? This mess that we're in of living longer in. The mess that the world we've created of the stress and the bad food around us. Living longer is part of the solution, actually. Okay. So by helping yourself, you actually help save the planet.

And that may sound counterintuitive, but let me explain. First of all, there's an economic benefit to living longer. Healthy, right? Productivity, spending. The economy is driven by people who are healthy and dragged down by people who are not healthy. Good point.

And we did the calculation by we, I mean, a couple of brilliant economists in London. And I was just the third wheel. But they calculated that if you could just extend lifespan by one year, let's say everyone went on met for a man who could take it. Then the savings in the long run to the US would add up to $86 trillion. To extend it to a decade, it's $365 trillion with a T dollars. This is more money than you can get by doing anything. You know, it's, you know, it's saving, stopping all military spending, which we wouldn't do. But that kind of money can be put towards solving

issues like climate change, food supply, and the other thing that I do, and I don't often mention this because it's often not the subject that people want to hear about, but I also work on other problems on the planet. I have a company that detects viruses and bacteria, it can diagnose anything from your blood. That's just one, but the one that's relevant that you reminded me is, actually I wrote a code wrote a pattern on the plane over here to California from Boston to preserve fruit. And so the same molecules and coatings on fruit that, well, the same molecules that work in our bodies also work in plants.

In fact, plants make most of these molecules that we ingest. It's one of the reasons I eat stressed out plants because they make these molecules. Long story short, I'm hoping to extend the shelf life of fruit around the world, and there's a huge amount of fruit and vegetables that are thrown away every day. Parishes, yeah. Yeah. You're a remarkable brother.

Is there something that keeps you up at night that you worry about? I don't get kept up at night worrying. I get kept up at night working and talking to people. I do worry a bit that I'm not going to achieve my life's goal, which is to have a medicine that helps millions of people. That would satisfy me. I don't care about prizes and all that stuff.

That's, you know, I want a few and it doesn't do anything. What I'm hoping for is for a little vial of a drug, some medicine that saves millions of lives. And then I'll be, honestly, I'll be happy. And I'm guided by a mentor of mine, Philip Sharp, who is at MIT. And he actually literally won a Nobel Prize. Does he have his Nobel Prize on the wall?

No. He has a little vial of the drug that he made. And that's what he tells me is important to him. That's so good, David. Okay, a couple more things. Is there any other additional? I'm just processing what we've talked about today. I feel so good that you are here. I want to just say this to you. I always learn when you're around me and I feel more optimistic with evidence based in fact of why I feel more optimistic. And I'm grateful that I get to share the conversation today with millions of people that listen to the show. Like there are some shows when I do them and I'm in the midst of doing them. And I'm like, I'm so grateful for this experience.

And that's now twice with you. And I just want to acknowledge that with you. Is there any other gift you'd want to give the audience of, hey, here's another supplement or tip or something that could extend the quality or length of one's life? Is there something we haven't covered that you would just add to what we've talked about? Does anything even related to mental health or anything like that?

Yeah. Well, there are a couple of things. Mental health is very important to me as well. I've learned to reduce stress. Don't worry about the little things. Think about Willis matter in five, 10 years. I know you're very good at this. I listen to you as well.

I'm grateful to you as well. Thank you. And the ability to cope with pressure. I was a very nervous kid. And in my 20s and in my 30s, getting a job at Harvard was pretty scary. In my 40s and now in my 50s, I'm a relatively calm guy. And you have to work at it. It doesn't come naturally. Some breathing. I'm more recently now trying meditation at night. Just for a little bit, just for 15 minutes or so a day. But I find

that I can even get by with less sleep. I have what's a helmet and a headset that helps me. I'm not very good at meditation because my mind is everywhere. But it's called brain tap and I've no connection to them, but I like it. Brain tap has headphones. You listen to calming music and it's shining light in your eyes. It frequencies that get you to calm down. So mental health, very important because if you're always overly stressed, a little bit of agitations good, right, gets us going. But if you have cortisol coursing through your veins, it will accelerate aging. The other thing is I'm working on democratizing another type of test for age, which is your

true biological age, which is measuring the chemicals that are on DNA that actually determine biologically, how old you are. And it starts at conception, and it ticks away even when you're young. And I can basically take a blood test or a cheek swab from you or anybody and predict how old you are, but also when you might die if you don't change your life. And what I want to do is give everybody the equivalent of their credit score and help them improve their credit score. All right, so you got this number

and here's what we think you should do given everything we know about you. And that way it just coach millions of people into a healthy or longer life. And we do have a sign up, so that's my gift. You can get, so we're developing this test and it's gonna be a lot cheaper than anything. We've just filed a patent that brings the cost down by a couple of orders of magnitude.

The website is called tallyhealth.com. So get on that list and I'll contact you and we'll see. So tallyhealth.com and that's the latest spin out from my lab. But I think that in the same way medicine will help millions of people five, 10 years from now, this will be soon. And that, you know, this coaching that we do, I love touching people's lives now, not just saying, oh, in five years, get, I'll get back to you. Yeah, you're doing that, you did that today.

Here's one thing I just recommend everybody. I'd stay close to Dr. David Sinclair. So I'd follow his social media, anywhere you can get it. I'm just telling you that I think he's one of the most important humans on the spinning earth right now. And I feel stronger about it today than I did even before today, and I've already told you know millions of people about you prior to today. So Thank you for today. I enjoyed this tremendously, but I learned a great deal.

And for those of you that are listening, by the way, is that where they should find you on your socials at the best place? Yeah, Instagram and Twitter, I'm putting out facts. There's not enough facts out there. I'm very science-based. But I also, because of a lot of feedback, I've had my podcast that's just been released.

Yeah. That's doing well, fortunately, reaching lots of people. And we go into practical advice, not just the science. Some of the questions that I asked you today were born out of listening to your podcast. So I recommend that to everybody. And you guys listen, I bring you some of these people and it's free. All I ask you to do is share it because this is the fastest growing show on the planet for a reason. And it's because of all of you.

And it's because I'm blessed enough because of all of you to get you access to some of the most interesting, fascinating and inspiring people in the world to can teach you to live better, longer and happier, more productive lives. And so we accomplished that today, David. So thank you. Ed, you're great. Thanks. Have me on. I love you, brother. All right, guys. God bless you all. Max out. Share the show.

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