THE ED MYLETT SHOW - From Childhood Best Friends to Top of their Fields with Greg Genske

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

Before you have a business or a following, you have a friend. Mine grew up to negotiate six billion dollars in sports contracts. This episode is different for me. My guest was my best friend when we were ten years old, inseparable, running track together at six in the morning, trading baseball cards, growing up right alongside each other. Then life happened, and thirty five years went by without us being in the same room. After all that time, we finally sat down together, and today I brought him on the show. Greg Genske went from that kid in my backyard to one of the top sports agents alive, building an agency with Gary Vaynerchuk, teaching negotiation at Berkeley Law, and representing thousands of professional athletes through the biggest deals of their careers.  Here's what you'll gain from this episode: The Negotiation Secret Nobody Teaches: Greg breaks down the psychology of negotiation and why immaculate preparation on the other person's position beats any tactic. The Tom Brady Story You've Never Heard: How a single deposition Greg took as a trial lawyer helped open the door for the greatest quarterback in history. Position Yourself as the Expert: Why the people who separate themselves in any industry teach instead of sell. Elimination, Not Addition: Greg's decision to give up alcohol after nine years of winning in spite of it, and what he found on the other side. What 3,000 Athletes Taught Him About Loyalty: The difference between being an agent and being a real partner.   If you've got a friend from your childhood you've lost touch with, this one is your sign to reach out today. Some relationships are worth thirty five years of silence and still worth fighting for. Shopify: The best businesses aren’t built in boardrooms. They’re built by people who just started. Free trial at https://shopify.com/mylett Head to https://dosedaily.co/MYLETT or enter MYLETT to get 35% off your first subscription. Get your choice of a healthy free protein staple like chicken breast for a year or ground beef in every box for LIFE PLUS $20 off when you go to https://ButcherBox.com/mylett ⁠👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ←  ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INSTAGRAM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FACEBOOK⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LINKEDIN⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WEBSITE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Edmireland show. Welcome back to the show, everybody. So today is going to be one of the most interesting podcasts you've ever heard in your life and a very special one for me. So imagine this. Imagine you have a childhood friend who's your bestie. And you've known them about, I don't know, 45 years of your life. But somewhere along the line, like you have with a lot of your best friends, you just sort of drifted apart. And so the person that's on the show today was my best friend as a little boy.

We were inseparable as kids. And at some point, we kind of drifted apart. And I had not seen him for 35 years until the last 24 hours. I've seen him on social media. We've texted, but we had not been in person together for 35 years. And I'm so proud of him because whatever you know about my life, this guy's even been more successful. He has been. He ended up going to Berkeley Law School, ended up becoming one of the top trial attorneys on the planet.

He parlays that in a miracle way into becoming, building one of the biggest sports, representation agencies as a sports agent. He sells that. He goes back into the real world. Then he partners with Gary Vee at VaynerSports. And now he's got another agency. And I think he's the top sports agent on the planet. Do you imagine this? My childhood friend, top sports agent on the planet. He's the CEO of Vayner Baseball. He oversees everything with Gary Vee's company there and his company with Vayner Sports Baseball operations. He sold a business before. So he's an entrepreneur. He is an expert on negotiations, sales, persuasion. And he's my child Hood bestie. So Greg Ginski, welcome to the Ed My Letts show. Thank you very much. I can't tell you

how wonderful this experience has been to be reconnected with you. Yeah. I mean, thank you for such a kind introduction, too kind probably. No. But I'm just thrilled to be here and most importantly thrilled to reconnect with you. Yeah, I love you. I'm so proud of you. It's amazing these two little guys growing up together because most of my audience knows a little bit about my story. But I thought it would be most interesting because guys lean in here because you're going to you get access now to somebody who's negotiated some of the biggest deals in the history of sports. You're talking about $6 billion plus worth of deals. He's an unbelievable negotiator, persuader. But he's also just like my friend from when we were little.

And so I thought it'd be interesting. I knew you were going to be successful. I did. I told you this. We just connected last night. And the reason was you you've always been super smart, but you've also had this like, I call it like a drive. an ambition in your life too. So it didn't, you know, some people you meet, you go, I can't believe this guy turned out

successful. In your case, I knew it. You came from a good family. I saw how hard you worked. I kind of knew this was going to happen. I think my audience would be fascinated to know what was I like as a kid? Because I don't remember me as a kid. How would you describe me as a kid?

Well, at first I find it very interesting that you had so much confidence in me and I love that. Yeah. Right. And that's probably one of the many reasons that I was so drawn to you. you know, as my best friend when we were younger, you were a unique soul. Really? Yeah.

Right. Like, you burned with passion. You were driven to be successful at anything that you did. Like, any one of our activities was a massive competition. It was. You know, that I thrived with. You know, you were a year older than me. Yep.

I looked up to you in a lot, a lot of ways. And, you know, when, you know, when I heard about where your career had gone to the amazing success and all of these great things you've accomplished. You know, first there's a little shock. Like, wow, that's amazing because it's quite an accomplishment. Then there's like, yeah, of course. Of course. Who you are and why you're successful today is exactly who you were as a child.

You know, not fully developed yet. But, I mean, I'll tell you what, you know, you had me running a track at six in the morning up at the middle school during the summer. What are we like 10? Yes. You and I started a. a handyman business and we were weeding hills in the middle of summer in 90 degree heat. Yep, that's right.

But you started that business. That was actually your idea. Was it mean? Yeah, it was your idea. It was due to your inspiration. Okay, I'll take it. I mean, you, that's what really attracted to me was a, you know, a really great person, but who was so driven.

Really? And you were driven. You wanted to be the best at everything, whether it was the football game we were playing, Wiffleball, which I was still better on Wiffle Ball. You were. I'll give you that. It's probably probably why I blew my shoulder out. So why you blew your shoulder out.

why I kept playing. Your dad kept telling you, by the way, not to throw the wiffle ball. I know. He was right. Listen to your parents. It's true. Lesson one. But yeah, you were driven to be great at everything that you did, but not just to be great, but to actually put in the work, right? And so you taught me a lot about discipline at a young age, and I think I was really drawn to that. Really? I was telling you, I don't remember me at that age. I think most people don't. I have a hard time. What I remember was, which I must have done a good job of covering up, kind of an insecurity. dude, introverted, you now know that when you'd come over my home that my dad was a drunk and a drug addict who got sold, but I don't think you knew that when we were kids. Did we cover

that up well? Or did you know in my house there were some stuff going on? No, I mean, I remember, so first of all, I loved your family. We both spent a lot of time with each other's family. His family was at my wedding, you guys, just so you know. Yeah. And I mean, we vacations together, you know, absolutely love your mom, loved your dad, all three of your sisters very much. And your dad, and your dad always just seemed like, to me, the impression was always like just really busy, right? If we go to the game, then he'd disappear. I know where he was now. Yeah, he came back at the end, but he was always wonderful to me, but just it always seemed like too busy to engage in what we were doing.

Yeah. You know? Yeah, I got to tell you the profile, and we'll get into you now too, because that's what you're the guest. But his dad was like a second dad to me. His dad, Gary, who I love very much. His dad was a very successful business guy, but he was like the present day. dad. His dad was the one that threw us batting practice and worked out with us. We couldn't get rid of them. We couldn't get rid of them, which I loved. You were sometimes, but you'd take us to lunch and

have these long conversations. And so I knew you were going to win for those reasons. It is just really remarkable that we parted ways all these years and then you've accomplished. Same thing with you, I just want you to know. It was like, I knew. I was wowed by how successful you would become because, guys, that wasn't even a pleasant introduction. Like, he truly has accomplished all these things. He's lectured at Cal. He's become a dominant. figure in the sports world. Like he, it's,

it's really unbelievable what you've done. And so we probably should shift gears a little bit into teaching what you've become. But I just, I want to say one more time, like, man, what you've done and how you've achieved it. And by the way,

with some bumps along the way, I think you're okay to talk about. There was, I think maybe even as we go down that line, there's a through line a little bit. At some point, you and I drifted a little bit. I don't think either one of us know when that happened, right?

Because it wasn't like I ever, We didn't have a big fight or anything like that. But you were telling me last night, we finally had dinner together last night, that you think maybe you started to go down a little bit of a road, even though you were high functioning, and I didn't want to go down a particular road as kids. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah.

I think that there was a, for me, there's like this clear line where, you know, we're in high school and maybe it's like my sophomore year in high school, your junior year. Okay. You know, you remained, you know, the discipline guy focused on doing the right things. I did for the most part, but I also started a separate life where really gravitated towards the party scene, drinking, that kind of thing. And that wasn't your jam. Yeah. You know, and, you know, in a lot of ways, I wish I would have stayed on your path or the path we were on together. But that was my journey at the time. And I had a wonderful time and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I really, as I look back because there's no other reason, right? We shared the greatest times together, a love for each other. And a real passion for the things we love to do. True. And I think that's just the path that I started walking down. I knew you were going to become successful.

Where he really got me, you guys, was he would kill me in baseball card trades. So I would come back. So that's why I knew it was going to be a sports agent. He would kill me in these trades. Like I'd come back to people, you didn't really trade those two cards, Deginsky for blah, blah, blah. And he got me again. So that's when the negotiating started, just so you know. If you don't know that about you, it was taking advantage of Ed Milet in baseball card trades.

It was the beginning of you being a good sport. I'm always trying to make win-win deals. I'm sure if we went back and looked at the circumstances, you know, it was a good deal for both sides. I think you're completely full of it. So let's talk about your life and let's teach what you're great at. So how does someone, you're practicing attorney, you're doing very well, you're doing these big trials around the country, which I didn't even know at the time you were doing. And it's a really super interesting story. You end up having a trial where you help what at the time was probably the biggest sports agency in the world or one of them. Tell them the whole story of how you even end up being a sports agent because you weren't

chasing that at the time. Sometimes dreams find us. Well, 100%. You know, I think if we stay disciplined, if we stay focused, we follow our passions. I think God, the universe takes us where we're supposed to be. I think that's really true in my professional life and I feel really blessed for it. But yeah, you and I love sports and in particular baseball probably to an ridiculous level of obsession. Yes, I would say so. It was bordering on religion for us. Correct. And, you know, when the realization came from me that I wasn't going to play baseball, you know, which I probably gave up the fantasy much later than I should have.

You know, I had to figure out what to do, right? And I was a business major at Pepperdine, and this is really cheesy, so get ready. me and my buddies are watching the movie A Few Good Men. And we're watching Tom Cruise and Kevin Bacon competing in court. And that just stoked my passion. You can't handle that. I'm like, I can have a career where I get to compete.

You know, on this stage, right? That really thrilled. And I'm like, you know what? And I think I have the skill set for that. You know, I think I can do that. So right then I decided I wanted to be a trial lawyer. You know, not a sports agent, you know, not an IP lawyer, not a trans. I want to be in court trying cases that matter.

And you're not, no, Before that, no plans to go to law school. Not before that. Okay. No, so then I just started, you know, trying to get myself ready, get prepared, go to law school. And as soon as I got to law school, I was at Berkeley, and I started working for the San Francisco Public Defender's Office. It gave me an opportunity to get courtroom experience, learn, do a lot of amazing things, and meeting a lot of amazing people, represent a lot of clients. And so I jumped in 100%.

This is what I want to do. And, yeah, after I graduated law school, I went to work. You became huge. He became, he's being humble, you guys. He ended up trying huge cases around the country. He became super successful. The reason I want them to have this story is some of you have young people listening. And maybe they're in college right now and they're committed to one track in their life and they're afraid to pivot.

Right. And then in your case, which is about to come next, it's like sometimes you have to re-audit your dream in your life. So you are now living this dream, right? If like you're trying these big cases, you know, I name a city. He's like, yeah, I tried a case there in Boston or whatever. you're naming that. And then you end up for something with Steinberger, their agency, in a case for them, and then tell them the story.

This is crazy. Yeah. So primarily I'd been handling technology cases, high profile cases, and we had a lot of success. I had an amazing trial team. And Steinberg and Morad were engaged in a bet the business, you know, a foundational type lawsuit that they had to win. Okay. And so they came to us, asked us to represent them in the case. And so, you know, that was when I first met my mentor and big brother, Jeff Morad.

Yeah. So that kind of brought me back to my passion, right? Brought me back to sports, something you and I shared our whole life. And it really lit me up, you know, learning the sports agent business from these icons, Jeff Morad, Lee Steinberg, you know, interacting with a lot of athletes, taking depositions, getting ready for trial. Yeah. And so I jumped full into it and absolutely loved it.

represented them for about a year before we went to a federal jury trial in Los Angeles. And, you know, had a six-week jury trial. Ended up winning them a $44.66 million jury verdict. Strange number. Yeah. But that's what we did. And yeah, and I really established a relationship with them. I really learned the age in business and ended up leaving being a trial attorney.

It's crazy. And going to work with Jeff Morad and then take over the agency. Okay, guys, the reason I wanted to tell you that story is, A lot of you, you're driving in your car, you're on the treadmill right now, and you're in the pursuit of your dream. And maybe there are days as you pursue it. You're like, I thought this would juice me more, or I thought this would be better, or I thought it'd be further ahead. In your case, check all the boxes. You loved it.

You were further ahead than you expected. And they come to you and go, hey, drop being a trial attorney, get into the sport agent business. Right. And so take us through. How do you make a decision like that? That's gutsy. Like, you're living your dream. You're in pursuit of it.

Most people, in fact, you're not sitting here. We're being honest, right, if you don't make this decision, probably. So how does one do that? Give someone like the juice or the confidence to go, hey, it's okay to go get the thing you really, really want, even if what you have right now is pretty damn good. Most people only make a change if things are terrible. Right. Right. You didn't, it wasn't terrible.

You made a change when things were pretty good. What made you do it and how did you do it? Listen, I've been taking IM8. for a while, like a couple years. Feel great. Then we moved, and I stopped taking it for a little bit. Huge mistake. I can almost feel it immediately.

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Here's how you do it. Go to row.com slash my let to see if you qualify. That's RO. That's RO.c.co.co. slash my let to get started on Roe. Go to row.co for safety for box warning and full safety information about GOP1 medications. I think it's really important to continue to evolve, you know, as a person, as a spiritual person, as a professional. And I think it's incredibly important to follow your passions.

You know, and in that case, it was what I was doing. I was incredibly passionate about being a trial lawyer. I had done it. I had done a lot of trials. And I viewed it. I got to achieve that objective. This was a new challenge, a new challenge I was passionate about, and I just never looked back. I just went for it. I went for it knowing full, full confidence that I could do it, which is kind of crazy, honestly, that I thought I could walk in and do it. But also full confidence that, you know, this was my path. You know, like this was being laid out for me for a reason. Interesting. And I wanted to follow that path that was being laid for me. What do you mean?

Like, why would God put this in front of you if you weren't supposed to pursue it? Being such a huge baseball fan, as a kid, actually, we talked about you being a sports agent. I don't know. It's crazy. It's crazy. So, because I think sometimes people miss the breadcrumbs, God's leaving them in their life. Yeah. Because they're so fixated on some dream they had 10 years ago.

Is that what you mean? Like, why would this even be in front of me if I shouldn't pursue it? You know, I think the purpose, you know, the only constant in life has changed, right? The purpose of life is to continue evolve and grow as a person and to try to recognize those opportunities and those God messages when they come. And that's how I viewed it at the time. Like this was my calling, my path. I don't think people realize how gutsy that is. You're making seven figures.

You're going to get into a business you know nothing about. You're now going to become an entrepreneur. He's there like six, eight months and he basically takes the thing over. That's a whole other story, right? But just for fun, we'll decide whether we keep this in the show or not, but just for fun. Also, I think sometimes the path, I want everyone to just pick up the breadcrumbs in life. Sometimes you find a business or a situation and you look into it and you go, I could do it better. That's another thing, right?

Like I think what happened in that trial is you're starting to take these depositions of all these athletes. And as you're learning how their contracts were negotiated for them, listen to everybody, because you might be in one business right now. and there's a correlated business just to the left or the right that you're not pursuing that you could be missing. Like, you could be in the mortgage business and you're this close

that you should be doing insurance or real estate, right? So you're taking these depositions of these athletes. This is actually a really good story you told me last night. We'll decide whether we can leave it in. Sure. But everybody knows who Tom Brady is.

And he's considered now the goat and the history of football. What most people don't know is that potentially if the guy starting a quarterback had a better contract, we may have never heard of Tom Brady. And so you're taking a deposition of Drew Bledsoe, who's the starting quarterback of the Patriots.

He just signed like, I think it was like the biggest contract, supposedly in the NFL at the time. And then as you're taking his deposition, you might tell him everybody what you told me last night about as you're digging through this contract. Yeah, it's really... This is awesome. Yeah, no, it was really a coincidence of a number of things.

One is, he's my witness at trial that week. So I knew that he had a... a buy. It was during the NFL season, but nevertheless, I left him as my starting quarterback in my fantasy football. Yes, a move that got me kicked out of my fantasy football league forever. Thank you, Peter Zibblatte. So he's my witness at trial. Drew had two of the best contracts ever record deals done for him that were negotiated by Jeff Morad and Lee Steinberg. His third contract was represented by his new agency who he left with, who was our adversary in the case. And so during the cross-examination, I took Drew through the different contract negotiations and the terms of the deals, the really remarkable deals that were done previously.

And then the one that was just done that was not up to snuff, just not a good contract. Right. Right. And then I questioned him about, you know, what's guaranteed, you know, in an NFL football player's career, right? The risk of injury. How important it is to have the right contract in place, right? guaranteed dollars, structuring a deal in a way that the team can't cut ties with you, so they stay committed to you.

Some of those important things and got him to admit that his contract wasn't good. Crazy. Right? And in fact, got him to admit that he actually cut the fee that he was willing to pay that new agency on that contract. And I had the jury really involved in this. The judge, I mean, this was like very, very interesting testimony from a legal standpoint, as good as it gets. And I ended it with like a big open-ended question, which you usually don't do on cross-examination, which was, what if things don't go well for you?

Heaven forbid, you suffer an injury. What happens now that you don't have a contract in place that is going to ensure the team is committed to you in your future? God, dude, that's crazy. And it just fell in silence. And then, unfortunately for Drew, as fate would have it, there was an issue that happened, creating the opportunity for the goat of all time to step in. take it, Drew ends up in Buffalo. Yes. And my point there was the right contract may have made Tom Brady end up in Buffalo

kept blood so the quarterback. That's actually probably what would have happened. The truth of the matter is, like, Drew was replaceable because the contract was somewhat vulnerable. And so as a Patriots fan, I remember thinking, I almost wanted Drew to come back in at that time. We didn't know who Tom Brady was. Before Tom Brady was.

I mean, he was that guy. Drew was that guy. Yeah, 100%. It probably ends up, the truth is, just the way the world works. Belichick gets all this credit for, well, I went with Brady. Well, you could go with Brady because you knew the contract of Bledsoe was vulnerable. And nobody knew that until you did this in the trial. So now we have Tom Brady as this great goat.

But the truth of the matter is, had you negotiated Drew Bledsoe's contract, we may not know who Tom Brady is to this day. For real, seriously. I mean, he probably ends up being the goat anyway, but that's a crazy story that you were in the middle of. So when you negotiate, like you're the master of teaching this, people don't realize they're negotiating all the time. So you're negotiating with your kids to get them to pick up their room.

You're negotiating to get a better pay at your job. You're negotiating constantly. The world is sort of like an ongoing negotiation. And I actually think the people that are actually aware that they're in a constant negotiation in their life are already ahead of the people who are unaware that someone's negotiating with them, whether they know it or not. What are some of the keys for you in being a great negotiator when you're putting a deal together, whether it be a baseball contractor, just like in general. Yeah, I, you know, I've been teaching negotiation now at Berkeley Law for a number of years.

And, I mean, I'm teaching to some really, really intelligent, accomplished students. And I was blown away at how most people don't understand the first thing about negotiating. I think the most important first thing to understand is kind of the psychology behind it, right? That you're entering into a process that by its nature is uncomfortable, right? It's confrontational. And so most people have an intrinsic need to resolve the conflict and move on. And so I think one of the biggest things that I teach right at the beginning of my course every year is understanding kind of the brain chemistry that's going on.

You know, understanding how you might get in fight or flight, the amygdala takes over, you know, and, you know, I get to my woo-woo practices, right? You know, focus on your breathing, you know, focus on visualization before you get in. really try to find a way to make yourself comfortable in an uncomfortable situation and surrender to the process that I'm going to be engaged in this negotiation. You know, there may be tough moments, there may be hard words, but I'm committed to this process because I understand negotiating is a part of life, as you said, in all aspects of our life. So I think the psychology is really important and there's really no substitute for immaculate

preparation for a negotiation. And what I mean by that is just not just understanding what you know, what you want, what I want, what I want accomplish, what I think, what are my reasons, but you really put yourself in the shoes of the person on the other side of the table to really understand what's motivating them, you know, who are their bosses, what are their bosses putting on them, what are their business needs, you know, what, what do their balance sheet look like, what is their income statement look like? If you're negotiating a playing contract, what does their roster look like, their farm system, really, really. really being the expert, which is critically important so that you have good judgment in there, but it's also critically important so you can establish with the other side. I'm an expert. I came in here as an expert and I'm sensitive to your position and point of view. I understand where you're coming from.

Immaculate preparation. Because I want to ask you a couple things about this because I, now that you're saying it, right? Like my most successful friends, I think now that I'm just listening to you, I think they're, I'm talking about regardless of industry, like entrepreneur, real estate developers. Like, they're like the best negotiators. Yeah. And they actually, or even the best politicians that I've worked with, you know, privately, you and I were talking last night about a few, right? Which is pretty, pretty cool stuff.

They're actually unbelievable. They spend actually almost as much of their time on your position and your situation than they do their own. Like I think of someone that I think is like a master politician, whether you like him or, not, it doesn't matter. This is not about his political beliefs. But I don't, I think most people would say Barack Obama was a exemplary communicator. If you go watch his style, he already knew what points you were going to make. So he could actually frame your point in a way that served him. He wasn't caught off guard by what you were going to say or what you were going to think or what your point of view was or what your position was. He knew it better than you did, which made him unbelievable. So

is that what you mean by the preparation on the other side? Like if I'm negotiating a real estate deal with you. I should know more about you, the house, your background, other properties, your own debt you have, et cetera, et cetera. That gives me strength knowing your position, your vulnerabilities and your strengths. A hundred percent. Okay. And again, it's about, as you say, with President Obama being able to articulate his positions in the most meaningful way because he anticipates and understands the other side's arguments where they're coming from. It's also critically important, you're creating a rapport with the person you're negotiating with. They need to understand that you're an expert and that they understand your point of view and that we're deal makers

together. We're trying to do this together. You can count on me. I've demonstrated to you that I'm an expert in this space. And I've demonstrated to you that I'm also sensitive to your point of view and your position. Interesting. And I want to make a deal. You want to make a deal. I'm thinking I'll give me to everybody politically. The best communicator ever seen as a president was Reagan. And Reagan's strength was he was actually a Democrat before he was a Republican. And what did that give him? It gave him the strength of understanding the belief system and the positions of the other side. Better than most of them did.

He could articulate why being a progressive and why being a liberal could work because he was one at one time. And I think a lot of time people get so ingrained in their own position, like even in their marriage, that they don't spend enough time in the other person's position or trying to get your kids to do the things you want. Actually put yourself in their shoes. Why are they behaving this way? Why do they think this way? I never thought about that before, but my most successful friends are actually the best at negotiating

and understanding the other person's position. Speaking of someone who I think is good at that, by the way, had an agency, sold it for a bunch of money, got out of that business, and then decides to go partner and do it again with VaynerSports. AJ's a stud. I've heard so many things about AJ.

But why Gary Vee and why AJ, like what do they bring, because we kind of turn the corner into like modern business, the modern athlete. What did they bring that you thought could benefit you as opposed to just going out on your own? Yeah. Yeah.

So you referenced that I had another agency that had a lot of success. And I admitted to you last night, I think I sold too early. Too early. Yeah. I sold too early and ended up in business with partners I wouldn't have chosen under normal circumstances. So when I was on my own and being approached with lots of different opportunities, wasn't interested in joining like a big agency, a more entrepreneurial. I was interested in creating

something. And I had a really clear vision, right? I felt like I did a really good job at my last agency at educating athletes, which I think is not that common, unfortunately, in the sports agent world. I did an excellent job at negotiating amazing contracts. How many athletes total you think you've repped? Just to give them an idea, because it's every sport. It's UFC. It's NFL. It's MLB. I think he leaned to MLB, but just in just to give them some context of how much, you know, many athletes roughly. Yeah, over 22 years, it's got to be two, three thousand. Okay, bro. So when I say he's the expert at negotiating in communication, I'm not being nice to my childhood best friend. Okay, so keep going. Why them? You've done it. You wanted to be entrepreneurial. So my focus was

I wanted to create the best agency in the world. And in order for it to be that for me, it needed to offer everything an agent needs. I'm not necessarily limited to what I do as a sports lawyer, veteran sports agent, but everything that I viewed as being necessary, it had to be authentic, meaning it can't be like a lot of agencies where they sell a lot of glitz and glamour and they don't really deliver, right? It's smoke and mirrors. I know that. Yeah. So authenticity, best in class, these things were really important. And then really important to me too was I wanted to be in business with really good people who I respect and who are not just extremely talented, but people who I respect and people I want to be around. You know, I'm fortunate.

it like I get to make decisions professionally where I just follow my passions. Yeah. And for me, that was important. And, you know, so I started first with Tom Hicks as my partner, the late great Tom Hicks, the rest of soul. And. And, and many other things.

Dallas Stars. Right. Yeah, et cetera. Just a wonderful man. Yeah. A great mentor as well. And I started just creating a foundation of what I wanted the agency to look like, what I thought it could be and what it needed to be really to be the best.

And then I had the good fortune of being introduced to AJ Vaynerchuk, Gary Vaynerchuk at the Super Bowl in Miami in 2020. Okay. And, you know, I didn't know really much about Gary V. the whole thing. You know, it's not my area, it wasn't my area specialty. I know a lot more about it now because of my great partners. And I was blown away. So I looked at a lot of stuff on social media, all that.

And I had an expectation going in to meet with them. And it was not at all what I expected. What I, what I was met with were truly wonderful caring people, extremely passionate about sports, extremely savvy in business, and just that's tremendous drive and energy. Okay. I thought you're going to say their digital presence. The digital presence was huge. That's why I took the meeting, but what I got was so much more. Got it.

Okay. Right. I got just really sophisticated business people who had a real strong passion and just really good people. So we vibed. You vibed. We vibed hard at this, hit it off, you know, to steal Gary's expression. With us, it was one plus one equals 11. Yeah.

Right? You have my background doing billions of dollars in contracts, you know, sports law professor, all of that. And then you have this amazing empire that Gary and AJ had built that offered so much to athletes in terms of social media presence, branding, marketing, advice, partnership, entrepreneurship, all of these things. And what they had that I shared as well was a desire really to teach first and foremost with our client base. Meaning the athletes actually learn something that they can carry with them the rest of their life and not just do deals.

When I meet, you know, in recruiting me with an athlete, and I said, you know, I'm not for everyone, right? I'm not going to let you just sit in the back seat. Like, I'm here to teach you. Right. In my opinion, when you look back on your career, you're only going to be satisfied if you feel like you made the best decisions. And you can only do that if you're informed.

There's a lesson there. I want to stay on that. I don't think enough business people position themselves as a teacher. I mean that like I'm talking about regardless of industry. Like it's something that maybe it was in the water when we grew up. But like I've used that. First off, I consider myself a learner, number one. I'm still learning and I'm curious.

But like for me in business, I over the years, it was always trying to transfer information and skill to people. And like enough people, why can't I scale my business? It's because you're not a teacher. you're a motivator you inspire people you could even get stuff done but you don't teach and so because the fact that you don't think of yourself as a teacher you're never transferring enough information or skills or belief to scale anything so it's a huge lesson bro what you just said like it's amazing we both landed in the same spot on that because i do it to scale and bring value but you're doing

it really that this athlete because so many athletes end up broke when their career's over right you're doing it so this dude leaves you as j z would say a businessman, right? Like, they're just not athletes who have done deals. Let me ask you this, because I'm just like personally want to know this. What have you learned from the, you said Tom Hicks earlier, right?

Like you've been this guy, I know where you grew up, so neither one of us was prepared to walk in room and talk to billionaires about parting with hundreds of millions of dollars, right? So like, someone right now is going, man, I'd love to be able to close this sale I'm working on a house, and that's a big deal.

You're going in to a billionaire or a group of people and saying you are going to part with, let's just take MLB for a minute. Manny Ramirez is one of your clients, right? We could name a bunch of them, but let's just take, you're going to part with hundreds of millions of dollars, and you're going back to these same owners collectively over time, getting to part with billions of dollars at some point.

What do you know about those people that we should know? Like, how do they think, how do they operate differently than us when you're around, or are they all just very different people? August is the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins, and honestly, I can't think of a better place to start than my closet. And I'm getting compliments. You guys listen to the show. You're like, hey, where'd you get the shirt, Milet? Looks good on you. I got it at Quince. Their clothes are made with premium materials, built to last, and designed to becomes the ones you reach for every day. Quince specializes in everyday staples that work harder, like their ultra-soft organic cotton teas, which I'm wearing right now, and premium Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands, which is why I go there. No markups, no middlemen, right to the dealer.

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Wayfair has more than 20 million verified five-star reviews from real shoppers, so it's legit. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. How to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R-com. Wayfair, everything style, everything home. I do think they're all very different people, but I think there are certain traits that you see in common. Okay. I think they've gotten to that position for a couple of things, or a couple of reasons, rather. One reason is they're not afraid to take a chance, right? They've gotten to that position in life because they're able to recognize opportunities and not being afraid to take the risk necessary to see it to fruition.

So that's an important thing. Sounds familiar with you with going into the sports business, but go out. 100%. And so, and they are deal makers. Okay. And then the other thing to keep in mind is they didn't end up in that position because they weren't hugely passionate about sports. And in particular, the sport of the team they're leading.

And so it's critically important to understand those things. And as we talked about earlier, critically important to approach it from a position of expertise and as a deal maker. You know, I'm trying to create a win-win. How does somebody who, by the way, I did that too, I got young. You know that my first business, I was in the financial business. Yes. And I was young.

And I remember thinking, if I don't address the fact that I'm young, why would people give me their money to investor by insurance? And so it's so crazy that we landed in the same conclusions, even though we parted ways. And I remember thinking, I have to just, frankly, be better at this than everybody else. I have to almost be like a prodigy. I've got to position myself when I walk in this room as an expert. And I would actually flip the fact that I was young to my advantage.

I would tell them, look, I know I'm probably younger than the last guy that was in here. And so because I know that coming in, I've done my homework a hundred times more than them. I've dug deeper. So just give someone advice in general. How important is it to position yourself and actually truly become an expert at what you do, to separate yourself from all of the marketplace, all of the noise out there. That you're right on the money.

And similarly, whether it was a trial lawyer at 29 years old, you know, in court, you don't see many of those. Right, right. Right. And I had a great mentor who taught me how to really lean in to the judge,

lean into people, be overly humble, but at the same time demonstrate a higher level of preparation and expertise than everybody else. but deferential at the same time. Remember, his advice was let the judge feel like he's mentoring you. Otherwise, he'll be kind of put off by the fact this young kid is in here thinking he's the smartest guy in the courtroom. And I think that was true early in my career as an agent as well.

So as you said, it's I need to be the expert. I need to, I'm going to have to prove myself above and beyond. I can't just rely on, you know, I've been doing this for 20 years, 30 years. Like, you hear that all the time, that refrain, which, by the way, don't ever do that. I don't very much experience you have. If you got to sell yourself based on how long you've been doing it, come up with better arguments. Very good. I agree.

But yeah, you've got to be the expert. And that only comes through actually putting in the work, right? And, you know, go back to you and I and, you know, the disciplined, you instilled in me and that maybe we helped each other with. I think that was critical. Yeah, I do too. Do you think these athletes, when they come in and they see you, what makes, what makes, a UFC fighter choose you

because the reason I say is everyone out you're probably listening this is selling something right and so the separator with the athlete I get the separator with the owner

but now the athlete because I know what it's like even in my business I get we were talking last night I've been with the two big agencies out there and I get pitched by agents often to do different things and so I'm

you're not the only rodeo how does someone separate themselves with like one of the athletes or a client. Is it your expertise level or are you working on building rapport with them and connecting knowing their mom's name? Is it a whole package of stuff? How do you do it? It is all of the above, right? And whether it's a UFC athlete, a baseball athlete, a football athlete, a pro surfer, we're trying to do those things, right? This relationship you have with an agent athlete, this is incredibly personal. You know, you're creating a real deep relationship

and a bond that's probably going to last decades. And it's probably going to be very expansive over many facets and aspects of their life. I think as an initial matter, you want to cover the nuts and bolts, which is I'm going to educate you on how to be a professional athlete, how to be a business person, how to manage your brand,

how deals work, how they're negotiated, what are the rules of your sports, the CBA. I'm going to make you an expert on this. Not because I need you to do anything, I'm going to execute. And I'm going to have strong opinions. You and I are going to be partners together and make decisions together. Partners.

Yes. And I want to make it very clear at the first meeting that you are going to be in the best hands when it comes to negotiating your contracts, setting a business plan for the course of your career, and then with all of the resources we have at Vayner with Gary and AJ at amazing entrepreneurial advice, helping you with your brand, finding the right business partners. And our goal here is to be real partners with our athletes. And I mean that not just in terms of our partnership and the player agent relationship and negotiating deals, but also we want to be business partners together.

We want to find, I want every one of our athletes to be able to take advantage of this magical short period of their life where they have access to incredible opportunities. I want to help you identify those. I want to use our team to put your brand in a position where you're going to be attractive to the things that you're attracted to. and then find ways to be owners of companies together. See, I think the fact that you position yourself as a teacher is an unspoken way of saying I'm an expert.

And I don't think enough salespeople, negotiators, marketing people, assume the position of teacher. Because when you do that, you've essentially, without having to tell me, told me you're an expert. I'm going to teach you some things. We're partners in this. This vernacular, this language has nothing to do with baseball. It has nothing to do with just negotiating baseball.

contracts. It has everything to do with connecting with people and separating yourself in the market in what you do, whether you're a realtor or you own a dry cleaners or you're selling protein supplements. When you teach people, like my business partner, Andy Fursela has the, I believe, the best supplement brand in the world. It's called First Form. They're a behemoth. They spend most of their time, bro, teaching you different things about what to put in your body and how to, they already assume they're the best. They assume they're the expert. Not enough of you are What happens when you listen to podcast, you guys, someone's in a particular industry. Your job is to pull out the things that apply to you.

Then there's another thing that applies with you, Greg, that I really want you to talk about because I've bragged on you so much, right? But I want you to talk about life has not been that easy along the way for you either. And you've been public about this a little bit. And I want to address it because I want to give people hope because there's people, people delete themselves easy in life. They eliminate themselves. They think they're disqualified.

Man, I just went through a divorce. So I'm toast. Or, you know what? I got this thing I'm doing on the side that I know I shouldn't be doing. I'm never going to be successful. Whatever it is. In your case, you said earlier, we kind of started apart ways as you saw it, and I'll take your word for it.

Maybe you started like the party life a little bit. Yes. And I was afraid of that life because of what it did to my dad. Right. You came from a normal, well-adjusted house. Your dad's the best. And Carol, who just passed away, rest of her soul is such a wonderful woman. and so important in my life, by the way.

Thank you. So important in my life. And very important for some years there. And we parted ways. And then, but that process for you over the time, this is what I want you to be hearing if you're listening. Okay, guys. You begin to have tremendous success in your life in spite of this thing that's kind of growing on the side, which is your dealings with alcohol. Yes.

And so this is what most people don't understand. You can have an issue with something and still be succeeding in spite of it. I used to think, my dad's not an alcoholic. He's not on the streets. He got up every day and went to work. He produced every single day. Addiction in life, you can still be winning in spite of it. So you were becoming what I would call like a highly functional, I think safe to say alcoholic at some point in your life.

You had to make a very difficult decision you've been public about. And the reason I want you to share it is a lot of times in life, the next level of life is not some key you don't have. It's not an addition. It's actually subtraction. It's taking away something from your game that's holding you back. It's thoughts. It's scrolling Instagram. It's gambling.

It's porn. It's drinking. It's whatever it is. And in your case, you were winning to a certain point, having a certain level of happiness. But on the side, this alcohol thing was starting to get the better of you. What made you make the decision to stop? and then what did it do for you? Yeah, I had a long relationship with alcohol, began in high school, had a wonderful time.

You know, for the most of this journey, it was wonderful, it was fun, for all the reasons people like to drink, enjoy themselves, having a good time. But for me, it didn't stop in high school, you know, didn't stop in college, didn't stop in law school, didn't stop as a trial attorney. So it was part of my life that just continued, right? And, you know, I continued to have success at what I wanted to do. whether it was trying cases, winning cases, you know, graduated from law school, doing triathlons. I was able to kind of do it all at the same time and, you know, have a drinking life as well.

And it's something that kind of worked until it didn't. You know, as I got a little bit older, I realized that it was competing for my attention with the things that really mattered. Wow. You know, and I knew that life was bigger and better than that. And I also was really focused on continuing to get better as a person. And I didn't know that I could do that with the bondage of, you know, a habit of drinking or, you know, whatever it was. And it became clear to me for health reasons, all kinds of reasons to be a better father, to really just to be better in life, you know, engage and to continue to progress. I wanted to be somebody who got better as I got older.

And I didn't think that was going to be possible if I continued drinking and I realized I needed to put it into it. How long's it been? Nine? Nine years. Congratulations. Thank you. That's super cool, man. I'm really proud of you.

And the reason I wanted you to touch on it, because I was noticed not something you want to talk about all the time, is there's someone listening right now. There's more than someone. Yeah. And the next level of their life is not adding some new tactic or strategy. It's like, hey, you know what it is. Whatever it is.

I think if you're listening or watching or not, you know what it is. That's the thing you're doing that no longer serves you. It doesn't serve you anymore. It doesn't belong in your life anymore. And there's the next level of your life is getting rid of that thing. Maybe it's a relationship. Maybe it's a person. Maybe it's a pattern of behavior.

Maybe it's an addiction. But that next level is it's elimination, not addition. And that's why I wanted you to talk about it. So I appreciate that you did. No, very happy to. And yeah, I would say that to anybody out there dealing with any sort of addiction, it's absolutely something you can address. It's absolutely something you can change.

It's not easy. You know, it's not easy for a lot of people. And I'm not going to say it was super easy for me. It wasn't. but there is such a better life around the corner if you're able to deal with it. I'm a big believer of hitting things head on. Yeah, you are. The other thing about you that's different than we were kids,

and I want you to talk about this part of your life, because I think success leaves clues. Like, I think there are just things people do. And maybe even some of them, a lot of athletes do them unconsciously. They don't even aware of why they're great. They're just great. But in your case, what you weren't when we were kids. We were both, I think we both had this, we were both,

confident we weren't a little insecure like we weren't like the most popular confident stud dudes yet we were in the middle somewhere right yeah i would say but you're intense now bro like there's an intensity to you i told you at dinner last i'm like bro you're wound up you're intense right and so i think a lot of times you have to know your tendency in life my tendency is not to roll i'm not going to be the guy you got to worry about who's not showing up to work right who's going to relax who's going to flinch. That's not my thing. Now, some people, they have to be keep prodded and pushed. That ain't me. That ain't you. My challenge is turning it off. My challenge is recuperation, rest, et cetera. We were talking last night. We both reached the same place also in our meditation

life. Yeah. Right. And so tell them about why that's been so important. The part of your life where you empty your mind because your mind's racing all the time. You're brilliant. You've got cases. You've got deals. You're negotiating. So part of your, the clues your success is left is your meditation practice. Talk about that a little bit. Yeah. And, you know, it goes hand in hand with when I quit drinking. Really?

It goes hand in hand. I wanted to evolve as a person. So I leaned into the things that didn't seem comfortable to me, yoga, meditation, spirituality, relationship with God. These things that I kind of avoided in the other life, I realized that that was my answer, right? That was my evolution. Wow.

So I really leaned into it, and it took a while, but I think I mentioned this to you last night. After a few months, I was surfing on Kauai in Honolay Bay, and I had not had a drink in, I don't know, three months. And I just realized that I was elated. I was with my son in the water, realized we had been in the water for five hours. Wow. And I was like, when was the last time in my life that I was so engaged in a passion that I just lost track of time and in pure enjoyment? And I was like, I remember us playing wiffleball in the backyard for eight hours straight, things like that. I realized I hadn't really had true enjoyment like that since I was a kid.

And that was kind of my spiritual awakening, you know, right there in beautiful Honolay Bay. And I realized I was on the right path. So I've really stayed committed to my path in meditation and yoga. And I know you and I share the meditation thing. Yeah. You know, I meditate at least twice a day. You can go four hours. That was during one period of time.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. But, you know, usually it's two meditations a day, you know, more 30 to 40 minutes. And also your practice, you have stuff outside of business like surfing. Yes. Tell them what that does for you. And then how many surf trips you do a year?

Yeah. No, I'm really passionate about surfing. I love it. And I love the fact that it's something I get to do with my kids who both love it to. And we're getting ready to go to another surf trip to Fiji. I'm really excited about a couple weeks. But I've, for me, surfing is meditation. Right?

It's one of those really pure practices. I mean, not only are you in nature, you're in the ocean. What I would say is our natural element. We're there in it and a part of it, which is, I think, so key. But in addition, I mean, the essence of the sport is trying to get in touch with that energy that's flowing through the water. Right? It's energy flowing through the water, creating the wave. And the whole point of it is to get in sync with that energy and be able to ride the wave.

And that's what I love about is you can only do about it. You can only do it when you're in flow. state. You can only get in sync with that energy when your mind is clear. Yeah. And I can tell you, every time I can tell you what I'm thinking about when I'm trying to catch a wave, I wiped out, which happens to me a lot, by the way. And then every time I have a great ride, I can't tell you anything that was in my head. I can only tell you what I saw. That's awesome. What a great lesson. That's why I love the sports. Yeah. The reason I pointed out is to guys, you got to have something that you love outside of your passion, of your, of your

business. You've got to have something that empties your mind that fills your cup as you're pouring into people all the time. For him, it's meditation and surfing and his family. And for me, I don't have the surfing thing. My surfing's golf. He's better at surfing than I am golf, but it's my, and when I'm playing great golf, I ain't thinking about swing thoughts. Exactly what you said. I'm actually in flow. I'm just executing. Let's talk about a little bit about we, we, I would be in big trouble if I have the best sports agent in the world and I don't talk about the current state of sports, right? Yes. So I'm, you know, that I'm on the board of the National Football Foundation.

So I'm involved in college sports quite a bit now. That whole world, bro, has completely changed. So I just want you're all like, what do you think of this whole, first off, are these guys now all, is branding super important for every young person to be paying attention to whether an athlete or not? And how do you feel about this like name image and likeness stuff? All of the Wild West that's happening. is it net net good? I'm sure as an agent you like it, and where's it going to go and what needs to happen?

I think it's great. I think it's wonderful. And I've been teaching sports law for 10 years and watching the progression of getting towards freedom, opening up for NIL, pay per play, all the things that are happening for amateur athletes. And from a legal standpoint, it was clear it was going to happen. You know, the policy the NCAA had in place was just illegal, right?

and they suffered loss after loss in the courts. And it was heading towards this conclusion, which I think is the right conclusion from a legal standpoint. I also think it's the right conclusion just kind of from a business capitalist standpoint. I think it's absolutely absurd to think that athletes who contribute such tremendous of value to these billion-dollar industries can't participate

in the financial windfall of those industries is absurd. I don't know how is a society we ever got to a point in thinking that was okay. Because it's not okay. Right. It's just not. okay. But I think perhaps, and I mentioned this to you last night, I think perhaps one of the greatest benefits that comes out of opening this up for NIL is it also got rid of the NCAA

restrictions that legislated out the truly ethical sports lawyers and agents from servicing these young athletes who really need competent representation. And we saw with all the restrictions that the NCAA had in the past, it created a void. That void got filled, right? It got filled by people who weren't qualified, who weren't scrupulous, who were self-serving, and who hurt players. Like you see, like the Reggie Bush example, and there's several of them. Terrible. And I'm hoping we don't see those ever again now.

And the reason why is because now a young athlete who has real business on their plate is able to get in touch with VaynerSports, A.J. Vaynerchuk, Mike McCartney, myself, or other competent agents at other agencies, and really get educated, get great a advice, help develop a business plan, help evaluate different opportunities available in college, what it's going to look like professionally. And I think that is invaluable. It's that, that's, you know, it's kind of why it's in the Constitution, a right to representation. Okay, what about, so now that we're, let me, let me ask you the hard question. They are, though, supposed to be student athletes. Correct. Okay. So my rub, my rub is not that guys get paid and

ladies get paid. I want them to be paid. I think it's great. I think, uh, If I built a brand and I was a 19-year-old and I decided I was going to be a professional surfer or a realtor and I can make money with that brand, I should make money with that brand. 1,000 percent. But they are student athletes. And so my rub on it is it's gone like crazy Wild West, meaning as I understand it, and I'm sure I misunderstand some of it. But as I understand it, they can freely move whenever and wherever they want. Even an NBA player or an MLB player, you're negotiating them a contract. They've got to be where they are for two or three or four or five years, right?

Whereas the college guys, it seems like they can just leave, right? And then I'm thinking, well, is that fair the other way to the institution who pours in resources into them and they can just bail? And is it fair that this kid, I know how credits transfer. Is anybody going to graduate if they're at four schools and four years playing football, right? And so what about that part of it? I know, I understand why you like the part you like, and I do too. And I'd like it even more if I were in your business so I could participate in it.

But like, what about that? part of them also? Or should we just say, hey, look, some of these guys aren't students. They're just not. But they are going to college, right? They are at a university. So should they in your, I know where you're not going to answer this, but I'm going to make you try, should we at least eventually land in the middle where you have to stay and honor your time at the school for some period? Or there's a consequence if you don't. What do you think of that, Mr. Sports Agent? Well, I think you raise a lot of great points. Oh, here we go. Right. The first point that you raised and I'll bring up is like, are they athletes or are they not athletes?

I think we broached that question long before NIL opened up, frankly. Okay. Right? With practices at a lot of the top athletic universities would cause you to ask that question, frankly, before NIL popped. I agree. Right? I don't know that this has worsened the problem that players get paid now and are able to do NIL marketing or pay for play. So that's my first contention with it. I don't know that it really changed. That aspect has always been this struggle, like what's more important, the athletics

or the academic. I agree with you. I want to live in a world where they're both equally important, where both things are available. That's the first point. The other point, you know, the free mobility of players, which as an agent, I always love free mobility. I love free markets. I love open markets.

I love leverage. You know, I'm not going to lie, right? Of course. But I think that observation should be focused on the fact that this is still pretty new. I would also say that I don't think we've seen players getting their share of the revenue that we're going to see them get. I think you're going to see amateur players making more money. I still think that it's a system that's in progress and trying to be figured out. And a lot of the conferences are trying to formalize it figured out. And I think as that happens, we'll start seeing

things like a collective bargaining agreement that we see in the NFL. You do. I think we'll see that. Yeah, I think you need an operating agreement to kind of keep the institutions honest among one another and have a fair system between them and the players. I think we end up with that and it probably ends up with a system where there are contracts for periods of years like you see in pro sports as well. So I think we get there. We're just not there yet. We're still kind of in the wild west, I would say. Okay. I hope we get there sooner than later because I again, I'm great with them making money. I want them to make money. I think it's crazy that they wouldn't make money. I just also think if you're a student, my debate isn't whether or not they're athletes. My debate is

whether these guys are students anymore. When I say guys, I'm also talking about female sports too. I mean people when I say that. All right. We don't have that much more time left. By the way, it's been good. We haven't gone all over the place today, which is really, really good like I knew we would.

If you could go back and there's these two kids in a backyard playing wiffleball and there's a little Eddie Milette there, a little Greg Ginzky there, and you could give advice to those kids that are now today doing it. So there's an Ed Milet in someone's backyard with his best friend right now doing something playing catch or whatever. And they're a little 10, 11 year old little kid, boy or girl. And they said, well, you're sitting next to your childhood, buddy, and it turned out good for the two of you. What advice would you speak into the lives of those two young people right now? Just overall advice or counsel or a message to them.

What would you say to them? I think there's a couple of things that you and I are great examples of. and our friendship at that young age is a great example of, which is follow your passion. We both followed our passions. We really, really did. Yeah, we did. Know what you're good at, right?

Oh, gosh. Know what you're good at, know what your strengths are, know what you can contribute to other people, something you and I also do. We draw the intrinsic value in our work based on how we impact other people's lives. Critically important. And then the other thing you and I had,

you taught me more and I had with you and then later my life is stay disciplined. Nothing comes without the work. That's like the perfect answer by the way. I think I would give the identical answer. I think the second one's the one people miss. I think people go, yeah, so you're passionate about I don't think enough people find something they're good at. Right.

You know what I mean? Like I don't think most people do enough self-analysis and are aware enough of like, like I got, I'm so fortunate because I don't know that I intentionally did it. You did. I think I more stumbled. Like I failed out of baseball is really what happened, right? And then I'm like...

You're a hell of a baseball player, right? Yeah, but I wasn't... I'm not like the guys you represent, but thank you for that. But then I was like, I then stumbled into like, okay, what am I good at? I am good at communicating, right? God gave me a nice, deep voice to use, right? Like, I'm intense.

I need something that has an element of competition in it. And I think you nailed it there with all of them. Like I would say that's what the two of us have in common is that you've also, we've taken advantage of what we're pretty good at doing. Would you agree? 100%. Yeah. You, um, I said this when I started, man.

Like, this is a very surreal. Last night dinner was surreal for me. You know what I mean, even when I got back, I was like, wow, it was like a dream almost. Like, yeah. It's very rare. I want you to imagine this, you guys. You're so close when you're little and you kind of go a different direction. and then independent, he becomes what he's become.

And then, you know, I've done okay too. It's just, it's such a great life story of what you've become. And I'm really proud of you. I mean that, bro. Thank you. Thank you. I'm really proud of you. You know, I'm most proud of you?

Thank you. After getting reconnected with you, you're who I'd hoped you were going to be when we were little boys as a man. You're a good son to your parents, man. And you're a wonderful dad. And I see you getting a little, like, that's who I hoped you would be when we were little boys. have grown into that. That means more to me than you'll know. I'm really proud of who you are, man. Thank you, bro. Thank you. Well, you watched us a little have a reunion here today. I hope you

all enjoyed it. I told you it would be a podcast like you've never heard before. Where should they find you? Where do you want to find you? Online? Yeah, online, Instagram, VaynerSports. And Greg Ginski on social, right? Yeah, at Greg Genski. Okay. He's growing his little social, you guys. I put a post out about him last time. I'm sure you picked up like three followers, so I'm excited for you. Thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, you guys, today was one of the most special podcasts I'd ever had chance to do, and I appreciate you spending the time. I hope you got inspired. I hope you pulled lessons from it. I hope you follow Greg. And reconnect with your childhood friends if you've lost

cases, lost touch as well, because it's even better than you could imagine. Reach out to somebody you love today. God bless you. Max out. This is the Edmireland Shaw.