THE ED MYLETT SHOW - From Panic to Peace in 10 Minutes — The Tapping Solution with Nick Ortner

Episode Date: October 13, 2026

You can’t think your way out of a thought loop. You have to show your body it’s safe to let go.   I get stuck in thought loops. For years, rumination served me as an entrepreneur because I never missed a detail, but it also exhausted me, and it exhausted the people around me. A mutual friend introduced me to tapping years ago, and it changed how fast I can shift my state. I’ve wanted Nick Ortner on this show for a couple of years, because he is the best in the world at teaching it.   Nick first saw tapping at a Tony Robbins leadership conference and spent the next few years tapping with friends and family for free. In 2007 he put $40,000 of camera equipment on credit cards to film a documentary about it. He has spent the last two decades, building, The Tapping Solution, whose app has now reached 18 million sessions, tackling the thing most of us fight daily: overthinking.   I came into this conversation asking the hard hitters. I asked Nick whether tapping is just a pattern interrupt or a real change in your biology. I pressed him on the sympathetic and parasympathetic states and the vagus nerve. I shared how my own rumination wore me down, and I told him how I turn to his work with the professional athletes I work with when visualization and breathing stop being enough.   Then I tapped along with Nick myself and felt my focus come back.   We also run a live session with Thomas, a friend of mine and a nine-figure entrepreneur working 16 and 17 hour days, and you will watch his number move in real time. Near the end, Nick walks you through your own five-minute session, so you'll get to try it firsthand.   Here’s what you’ll gain from this episode: The safety signal: What tapping actually does in your brain and body while you hold a stressful thought. A quarter of an inch matters: Why the location is everything, and why this is far more than a pattern interrupt. Why pushing harder backfires: What rumination does to your thinking, and why your best ideas show up in the shower. The 0 to 10 number: The simple scale that tells you whether it is working. The breaking point: What Nick did when he was broke, frozen, and ready to quit. Your own session: A guided round you can run today, wherever you are.   Press play, and the next time you feel like giving up, stop. Tap the side of your hand, say what is true, and give your body five minutes to catch up with your mind.   I know you are going to enjoy this one. Don't miss it! Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to quo.com/mylett   Head to dosedaily.co/MYLETT or enter MYLETT to get 35% off your first subscription. Visit Upwork.com today to post your job for free, and connect with top talent ready to grow your business. 3 Million Butts Love TUSHY. Get 10% off TUSHY with the code MYLETT at https://hellotushy.com/MYLETT 👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈→ → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ←➡️ INSTAGRAM➡️ FACEBOOK➡️ LINKEDIN➡️ X➡️ WEBSITE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Real growth, fast funding, Cardiff, borrow better. This is the Edmiron show. Huge announcement. So I wanted to make you aware of an event that I'm hosting in my home with less than 20 people. So it's a chance to be in a very small, intimate environment with me and interact for an entire day. I do this event every year. Typically, when I put the message out like this, it sells out within 48 hours. But this is a day where we're going to cover all of the mental cognition, visualization,

strategies, business tactics, time management, as well as physical, spiritual, emotional strategies that I teach. But more importantly, it's a chance all day long to interact with me and get your questions answered that you would like for an entire day with me. And again, this is go to day with ed.com to get the information. Daywithed.com. This is not a cheap event. And so if you can't afford it, that's okay. I don't want any pressure put on anybody. I don't have a sales team. There's no high ticket closers. I'm not like these other influencers, I simply make an offer to spend a day with me. And if it's right for you, I would love to spend the day. And if it's not, that's why you've got all my free content here as well.

I'm here to help everybody. If you want to spend a day with me in my home, go to day withed.com to get the information. And if it's right for you, I look forward to spending the day with you. God bless you. Max out. All right, hey guys, welcome back to the show. I wanted to have this man on a couple of years. And the reason is we're going to talk about something that you are probably not familiar with, then I mean this when I say it. It's potentially life-changing. And he is the best in the world at what he does. And we're going to talk about tapping today. And if you think you know what it is, you've been familiar. I think you're going to see something today that will take you much deeper into that world. But for the vast majority of you, you don't know what I'm talking about right now.

Or you've seen somebody poke in their face and wondering what the heck it is on social media or YouTube. And so we're going to talk about it today. He's, you know, there's sometimes you have people that are good at what They do. Then every once in all, you have the best in the world at what they do on your show. And that's why I wanted specifically him on here today. So my guest is Nick Ortoner. He has a book out called ReWired, The Breakthrough Tapping Method to stop overthinking. But it actually does even more than just overthinking, which we're going to talk about today. So Nick Ortoner, finally, welcome to the show. Ed, thank you so much for having me on. I am so delighted to share this with you,

especially because like you said, I feel like it's, I mean, I've spent 20 years sharing this with the world now and people see it and it's like, oh yeah, it's a little stress relief technique or something like that, a little wellness thing, but it's not. It's a complete game changer for every aspect of your life. And that's what we're going to get into today. Yeah, well, we're actually going to do, guys, we're going to throw you in in the middle of the interview here. We're going to show you an actual session with somebody and you're going to listen to it if you're listening or you'll be able to watch it as well. And you'll see exactly how it works. You may not see all of the results, but you're going to see a little bit how it works. Let's step back because you're exactly right. You go, it's cute.

but I know people who can, I know people that have had PTSD. I know war fighters. I know people that lived in chronic stress. I know chronic warriors ago. This changed my entire life. What is tapping, first of all? Give us a baseline explanation. Yeah, perfect.

So tapping. We call it tapping because we are literally, and if you're watching me on YouTube, you can see me if you're listening. I am physically tapping on these endpoints of meridians, on these mechano receptors of our skin. So when I do this, I mean, it seems simple. It looks ridiculous.

It's weird. I'm actually sending an electrical signal to my brain. And it's, you know, we don't think of it this way, right? It's like, wait, what's happening? This is, we are making electrical contact. This is creating a signal right now to the brain. And when we do that while we're focused on the stress, the anxiety, the overthinking, whatever is running and looping through our minds again and again, we send a calming

signal to the brain. Now, what happens is, you know, you've got something that's activated. you, you're angry about something. You're worried about an upcoming event. What's happening in your brain? Your brain is opening up that feeling, that thought, that memory. You're worried about something in the past. You keep thinking about something in the past.

It keeps looping over and over again. We open up that memory. We get into that state. We do the tapping. We send this counteractive signal. So it's kind of like, okay, we're open. Here we go. I'm angry.

I'm upset. I'm overwhelmed. And now the tapping says, this is safety. This is really what it's doing to the brain. brain and the body. So this safety signal then overwhelms the overthinking, the anger, the memory that gets stuck. And then it gets resaved with that safety signal. This is why people go, I've been in therapy for 20 years. And this is not downplaying therapy. It's important. It's fabulous therapists out there. We should do this. But people who struggle go, I've been in therapy for 20 years.

I've been talking about the same thing over and over again, right? Like complaining about mom or childhood. I'm bringing up that memory, but now I'm adding all this negative stuff around it. If I don't resolve it in some way, if I don't send something else that's different to that signal, then I resave it. So you go in therapy, you feel good for an hour, then you walk out and you've just resaved it with that same signal. This is why someone who has PTSD for 20 years brings up the memory.

Does the tapping. And they go, I don't know what happened. But that thing that was folding me, that thing that I couldn't let go of is, just far away. Oftentimes people talk about it as like it's in the distance or, you know, they'll look around like, well, what just happened? Because I don't care anymore. Like something shifted. It's why people have been in pain, chronic pain for 20 years. And you go, you know, this pain signal happening again and again and again, it gets wired in the brain. With tapping, we can bring it up. And sometimes it's magical. And it's like five minutes and the pain's gone.

and sometimes it takes 30 sessions. But there's the opportunity to change how our brain acts and reacts in that moment. So everybody, when you're listening to Nick, so you may go, well, I have don't have PTSD. Do you have stressful moments? Are you feeling any physical pain? Do you have a chronic pattern of thought that doesn't seem to be interrupted? Would you like to be able to change your state and just find bliss or peace or passion or ecstasy or calm in different moments? Then listen, okay, lean in.

or even your peak performance state to some example. So let me ask you a question. Is what's happening? I know the answer because I'm familiar with your work, but I'm gonna ask questions if I didn't. Is what's happening that just this tapping is some sort of pattern interrupt? Or is it a biological, neurological change

is happening based on location and pattern of the tapping? Yeah, great questions. Because a lot of people say, oh, you're just distracting yourself from it. So that's why it's okay for a little bit. Well, we've actually done some trials that show that sham tapping. So tapping on the wrong points.

So right now I'm, tapping on my cheek. This is not a point. This is a point. And these are points where that electrical conductivity is sharper. So I say something very quickly because there's audio listeners. By the way, he only moved his finger, I'd say a quarter of an inch. So the difference between being strategic in the location and incorrect in the location means everything. It's why you need to learn. Keep going. Yeah. So we've done these studies and showing that when we do sham tapping, it's not like you can just pattern interrupt and go, oh, clap your hands while you're thinking about a stressful thought and now it scared the stressful thought out and it didn't happen again.

No, there's a specific procedure here where it is sending, you know, this biochemical change through this pathway. And that's why it's so powerful. It goes beyond just a pattern and interrupt. And there's also the layers of it. And we'll get to it as we look at how the session works. Yes, you have the physical component. You also have the process, which is different than a lot of other things where you might say,

okay, let's think positive now, right? No negative thoughts. I've got a big game coming up. I've got a big meeting coming up. I only want to think positive. Well, that's great if you can actually do it. What most people do is they go, okay, happy thoughts, positive thoughts. And like our mutual friend Tony Robbins says, you can't look at a garden and say there are no weeds.

There are no weeds, right? You've got to go pull up the weeds. That's what we're doing here. We often start with even though I'm angry, even though I'm scared, even though I don't know if I can do this. We give voice to the truth of what we're feeling. We don't push it down. we don't deny it right off the bat. We give voice to it.

We send that tapping counteractive signal. We go through the process. And then you get to the point where you go, oh, I said it and I felt it, right? The difference between being like, no, this is the truth. Yes, I am confident. Like, I feel this deep in my body as opposed to I'm pretending I'm confident. I am forcing my way through it. And you know, you talked about peak performance.

And one of the things that I love about tapping and especially for high performers is that a lot of people think that they have to just struggle and fight their way through everything, right? That it's just like everything has to be this battle that they have to overcome. Now, this doesn't mean there's never an edge that you push through, but it does mean, hey, if you're scared of public speaking, instead of vomiting before you speak, right, how about you just get some butterflies? Can we take the vomiting away and just have some butterflies? And you go, okay, yeah, this happening calm me down.

And I'm still a little nervous, but I can go do it. Yeah. Does, by the way, a lot of you ask me, you know, often I get asked like, hey, when you're working with, let's just take even professional athletes that I work with, depending upon the sport, you know, what are you do with them? And a lot of it is stuff that I do with visualization and cognitive rehearsal or breathing techniques. But when I get to a place where that ends, then it's not as effective, I've turned them on to Nick's work. Now, because I'm not qualified to teach. But I can tell you that far more people that are performing at a high level, you utilize this technology than you're aware of, either to perform at a higher level or actually to finally have some bliss and joy in their life. So I want to stay on this. One thing we've talked about lately the last year or two on the show is the difference between, you know, these two states of their sympathetic and parasympathetic states. So without getting into a lot of that, if someone's not familiar with that work or content, is that also what this could be triggering? Can you literally tap into something that the vagus nerve is typically responsible for and change

your internal state? 100%. I mean, we're affecting. the vagus nerve immediately through multiple pathways, you know, through the tapping itself. I have got a couple different HRV sensors and, you know, when I put them on, I clip one to my ear. It's crazy because I'll look at it. You know, I can, you know, I know how to do it with breathing, right? I can raise my HRV with breathing. I start tapping on the side of my hand just like this and the HRV spikes. Like, it's incredible.

So fast. So we're bringing in that physical component. That's going to spike HRV. And then we're down regulating. our system. We're breathing as we do it. We're, you know, acknowledging how we feel. We're releasing emotions. We're releasing tension in our body. You know, people yawn all the time. I joke that I'm the only public speaker that when I look out in the audience of thousands, everyone's yawning and I'm okay with it. I'm like, all right. I know you're not bored. You're just relaxing. People are like,

I'm sleepy. I'm like, that's because you're tired, you know? And you've been running so fast and your body just finally took a breath. Well, that's great because I'm familiar with making people young too, but I'm actually not trained to do it. Let's do this, everybody. Let's just go into a session so you can listen or watch to an actual session with a real-life human being and see the practical application of this technology. Okay, everybody. Thomas is an unbelievable family guy, a great friend too, but he's also a multiple, multiple, multiple nine-figure net worth entrepreneur. He's got a big family.

He's got a big company. Multiple businesses actually inside that same company. And like anybody that does that, he's also, for the record, done so much work on himself that, you know, There's very few new things that can be an introduction to help someone like Thomas with just going to the next level. And for him, he just got a lot going, which is so like I've said, overwhelm is a legit thing for almost everybody that I know that's leading people. So, Thomas, tell me how you know that you are in sympathetic mode, that something, like you're recognizing something about yourself, your body, your mind, how you're feeling. and then you're also recognizing that you want that to change in some way. So tell me how you know that you're in that state that you don't want to be in.

That's a great question. I'm in a loop of the negative thoughts of all the things I need to do or haven't done. And usually it's the things that I haven't done or the people that I haven't supported or helped in that scenario whether it's a business, mostly it's a business stuff. I mean, I'm working 16 or 17 hours a day these days. So I would know by just being in this loop of I haven't done enough. Oh, my goodness, there's more to do. I haven't helped this person specifically.

That's how I think about it. And why does that feel bad? Why is that different than, you know, because we're going to do tapping today and your responsibilities aren't going to change and your demands aren't going to change and the external world isn't going to change. But what do you want to change internally

about what you're going through and what you're feeling? I want to show up in those moments in my definition of intelligence is to show up as the right person and the right time, right? And I want to show up in a much better state and a much better level of intelligence of either coach, supporter, versus it turns to disciplinarian. And tell me how you know in your body physically.

Like what do you feel when that loop is running, when you're, you know you're shifting into that disciplinarian mode that you don't want to be in? Like, how does that feel in your body? Well, it's definitely an elevated heart rate, but, you know, it's just tension in my upper chest. And it's just frustration. And that frustration is felt just with just being tense in my body's tense. Tension, right. And that mental loop, give me a little more specific on the thoughts that you think. And when you use the word loop, usually loop is like, okay, it's one thing to think a thought and move in a direction.

Great. I've made this decision. I'm going here. A loop is generally like, here we go again and again. And we're not moving forward in some way. Is that how it shows up for you? Absolutely. It's a huge standard for me is I hate going backwards.

I hate making, you know, that we didn't progress. It's just not having dealt with the things that I know I can and should have dealt with and or leverage other people to go do it with me and for me. That's very helpful. And then just to get extra clarity in there we're going to do tapping. So all of that happens and it feels bad to you. Why? Why don't you like the way your brain is currently operating?

The feeling I have is that's a definition of lack of success. And I think, you know, going to some of Tony's work, my primary question has always been is happening to my standard. And so it's a mismatch between the expectations that I have set for myself. So now you've got a little self-critical talk woven in to all of this. Absolutely. Okay. And how strong would you say we brought up a lot of things, you know, zero to ten scale. If you can define either an element of the loop or, you know, you felt some physical attention.

Like, where is it right now? zero to ten scale. Well, I'd say it's probably a nine. And this is one of the reasons in my prep work with Ed. This is why I shared it with him. I would say it's a nine. Let's just do some tapping and we'll just watch it unfold. So I'll take you through the process the first time through you'll be figuring out where the points are and what we're doing. It's all good. Just follow along with me. We always start by tapping on the side of the hand. It's called the karate chop point. And whatever hand feels comfortable for you. And then I'm going to say some statements. You can either repeat after me out loud or in your mind,

whatever feels comfortable for you. So we'll get started. Even though I'm holding on to all this stress, I choose to relax now. Even though my body's totally overwhelmed, there's so much going on. There's so much going on. I choose to feel safe in this moment.

I'm going to do that one more time. Even though I have so much going on, and my mind and body are overwhelmed. Choose to relax now. I choose to relax now. We'll tap through the points. The first point is the eyebrow point inside of the eyebrow, right where the hair ends and it meets the nose. You can do two fingers of one hand, the other hand, or both sides.

That's perfect. And just tap gently and think about everything that's going on. We set the table for it all. And all we're doing here is bringing it up. This is actually a moment to acknowledge these thoughts. these feelings. You can even tune into that morning meditation and that feeling that came up.

What was that about? Just thinking about it. Being present to it. And we move to the side of the eye, right next to the eye on the bone. A little further in, it's not at the temple. You want to go right there.

Tapping gently and all the responsibilities and the pressure and the things that people need for a mu. We're just allowing them to surface. They're there. They're real. We're letting them flow through our bodies,

bringing them up as we tap gently. Now under the eye, right on the bone, everything that's going on. And just notice the tension in your body. Notice the places where you might be holding on. Even if you're not always body-centric, there might be just a little spot where you go, well, my breath has been catching recently.

I've got some tension. in my neck or shoulders. Whatever comes up is perfect. Now under the nose, tapping gently, breathing gently, thinking about all the responsibility, the things that people need from you, the timeline, the pressure,

and then the loop, the loop that just keeps running, the part of your brain that won't turn off under the mouth, above the chin, below the lip, Right in that crease there. The part that won't turn off the part of you that thinks, I got to keep going, I got to keep solving, I got to keep thinking.

It's not safe to stop for even one minute. If I stop, I'm not enough. If I don't push hard enough, I'm not enough. Just tuning in. Feel for the collarbone, the two little bones of the collarbone, go right below it and tap with all 10 fingers of both hands. Noticing that tension, the stress, the loop, we're handling a lot at once here.

Different thoughts are coming up and you're trying to figure out where the tapping is and it's all great. And just see where your mind takes you. If it gets distracted by something else, that's perfect. Something specific comes up.

That thing feels really stuck. We just pay attention to it. We allow our subconscious mind and our body to guide us to tell us what we need to let go of. underneath the arm. It's about three inches underneath the armpit, either side of the body.

Making some firm pressure there, tapping, and focusing on what we're holding on to. Last point, right at the top of the head, tapping gently, breathing gently. Okay, and you can gently stop tapping and take a breath in.

That's one quick round, and now we tune in. We're looking for a couple things. One, what came up there? Anything. stand out, any changes, tune into that original number. Tell me what that experience was like for you. Right from the beginning, my breath fell into a deep lockstep.

So then it was naturally the tapping was sheeting, a productive breathing cycle. I would say that was the first thing I thought about. I think it's taken it down to a below five level of intensity and further away. What came up was sometimes it was people and, and how I can help them and what I need to do for them. And then it was also someone was visualizing the future state of how certain things need to be or will be. And tell me about that loop. So visualizing a future state feels different to me than the loop that you were talking about.

Yeah, with the loop, it was interesting. The loop kind of moved out of my brain fairly quickly as I was thinking about when I'm ruminating and what I'm ruminating on. It turned into people and future state, which then I, I think was part of the helpfulness to continue the cycle of breathing that seemed productive as well. Yeah, amazing. So the four or five that's left, what is that? Tell me the part of the loop that's still there, the thoughts that are a little more stuck. When you first said that, it made me feel what's the four or five is I'm extremely tired.

And I'm a person who never really is tired. I just haven't really slept. I've slept probably four hours a night the last three or four weeks. And generally that doesn't bother me. but the first thing you said there made me think about, you know, I'm tired. In terms of the stress that's remaining, it's just I'm visualizing and thinking about people and things that need to be done by me for them. And so those are things that are still very, very in front of me.

Yeah. Let's do a little tapping on that. And, you know, the goal here is that, again, these things don't change. They're still there. They need to be done. But I love what you just did where they're really in front of you, right? It's like, if someone's like close talking, it's just like, this is right in front of my face. This is uncomfortable how close those things feel.

So is it possible that those things can remain a part of your reality? You have to go through those actions, but they can be out there. And I love the visuals because this is what happens to all of us and everyone doesn't, you know, you say you're not body oriented, but you were very visual and like that language of like, oh, a problem here, right, is very uncomfortable. Or let's not even call it a problem, a challenge, right? Part of business that's here is uncomfortable. business out there.

Great. Let's go do it. You know, you've got space to make the decisions clearly, and it's hard to make a good decision when something is up in your face. Absolutely. All right, let's let go a little bit more. So we'll do a couple more rounds.

Still on the side of the hand, even though I feel all this pressure about the things right up in my face. About the things right up in my face. That I have to solve immediately. That I have to solve immediately. That are do or die. I choose to release this pressure

now. I choose to release this pressure now. Even though everything feels urgent, pressing, pressing, right up in my face, right up in my face. I choose to find some distance now. I choose to find some distance now. Even though part of me is overwhelmed by everything right up in my face. By everything right up in my face. I choose to step back now. I choose to step back now. What if I could step back. What if I could step back? Side of the eye, not step away. Not step away. Under the eye, just get some perspective under the nose. I can see so much more clearly under the mouth when something isn't right up in my face, collarbone. So I release all this internal pressure under the arm to get it all fixed immediately. Top of the head. It's safe to step back.

it's safe to step back eyebrow to see clearly to see clearly side of the eye from here from here under the eye I am at my best I am at my best

under the nose I can make the best decisions I can make the best decisions under the mouth I can feel strong grounded and safe I can feel strong grounded and safe Collarbone, I can step into my genius. I can step into my genius.

Under the arm, the more I relax. The more I relax. Top of the head, the more I let go. The more I let go. Eyebrow, the more effective I become. The more effective I become. Side of the eye, this is where I shine. This is where I shine.

Under the eye, just tune into that first. Can you feel that strength in your body now? Mm-hmm. And just see yourself going through everything you have to do, but it's out there. All right? You're just kind of like a battlefield commander. You can see everything so clearly releasing that pressure and tension from your body. See that now.

Under the nose. I am strong, grounded, and safe. Under the mouth, I am clear. I am clearer. Polarbone, I am focused. focused. I am focused. Under the arm.

I am relaxed. Top of the head. I've got this. I've got this. And you can gently stop tapping. Take a breath in. And let it go. All right, let's tune back into that four or five and what came up for you there.

You know, I almost smiled early on in that when you said, take a step backwards, see it from a different view. Whatever you said, I literally almost started smiling because. But you got it there with me. And, you know, it's probably a one right now. But that made me smile when you said that because I already know that. I mean, and your face is completely different. I mean, you're a completely different state right now. And of course you know this.

But look, your body was getting in the way. Your mind was getting in the way. You know all these things. And it's hard to think our way out of this. So we just went straight into your subconscious, straight into your body, like unlock the genius within you. And you're a genius, so thank you so much. That's nice. That was so good.

Okay. So let me ask you a question. For the average person, maybe they watch the session, maybe they didn't or listen to it. How long, is there a time period if someone's doing this effectively where they ought to be able to see a result? And if they don't know, maybe they're making an error in the process, how long should somebody, does it take or is it just completely different based on the person? Yeah, I mean, it's fairly different. But within five or ten minutes of having the process, you should be able to tell if you're tuned in in any way to your body

that something different is happening. And especially if you work on something, you know, what's happening, we try to be as specific as possible. So it's not just like, like you can be like, I'm stressed about everything in my life

and you can do some tapping and you'll relax. But that's sort of similar to like, well, if I did breath work, you know, my stress would go down. If I did meditation, my stress would go down.

Where it really shines is where you go, I have this one thought that I keep thinking. I have this one stressor. And we give everything a number on a scale of zero to 10. It's just part of the process. So, you know, we start off when we go, how anxious are you? And like two and in, well, it's an eight. In our tapping solution app, we've done this, this point, 18 million times.

So we have 18 million recorded sessions where someone gave us that zero to 10 number. It's the largest data set in mental health history on everything, anxiety, pain, cravings. So we go, okay, with an eight. and then 10 minutes later, the anxiety was at a four, we go, great, that person reduced her anxiety by 50%. So, yeah, I mean, the 18 million is bonkers. I'm working on a paper right now with a couple of people from Mass General and Harvard on that 18 million appoint data set

because there's nothing like it exists. And it's chronic pain, it's back pain, it's neck pain, it's cancer pain, the things that it's not supposed to work on. It's rumination, looping thoughts. It's sugar cravings. Like, you name a life problem, And we have the data to support the drop. So people, if they get specific on the thing, they will notice in 10 minutes the thought that was ripping and I couldn't let go of and it was at a 10.

It's now a 7, a 5 or a 4. Interesting. So for me, where tapping came in many years ago through our mutual friend was I have this tendency to do ruminating thoughts. I get in a thought loop. By the way, it's benefited me as an entrepreneur and a businessman because I'm on it. I mean like, I'm not going to miss something I should be concerned about. But from a bliss, peace, happiness perspective, ruminating on these thoughts not only drives me crazy, literally, but it drives everybody around me crazy, right? And so I'm wondering in my case, and you'll elaborate this.

By the way, you're going to have to get the book. And by the way, hopefully the session that you just watched or listen to gives you a lot of insight everybody. But is part of it, like when I first started tapping, it did take me a while to have some sort of. sort of what I'm just calling in my terminology a state change. Okay. Now it's almost like instantaneous. Here's what I'm wondering. Does the act, I know we're touching these centers, but once you've done it for a while, does the actual pattern of touching a spot become like an anchor or a trigger for a state? Do you follow what I'm saying? No, 100%. No, it's a great question. I do think there's a condition response. I do think people who do it more

often move faster. I mean, I've been doing it for 20 years now. I start tapping on the side of my hand and it's just like my body knows what we're doing. You know, it's like I've trained it. Like, okay, you got the thought, let it go. Moving on. Now, one thing I would say for you on your rumination is that it served you and maybe it doesn't have to serve you. Maybe there's a different path forward that you don't have to ruminate on something

in that specific way to still get the outcome. So, you know, like I don't want you to hold on to it to be like, I need this edge of thinking about this because otherwise things won't get done. What the research clearly shows, I mean, when you're ruminating, you're activating the stress response. Like, there's no doubt about it. So you're going into sympathetic. Now, what happens there?

The blood flows away from your brain into your arms and legs. So you think you're being active, but no, your brain is just not thinking as well. You bring up the thought, you do the tapping with it. And all of a sudden, it's like the blood flows back in the brain. You know, when does everyone have their best creative ideas? It's like walking, the shower, taking a bath, maybe working out, you know, like something where the body just like relaxes and lets go. So I would posit that, you know, moving forward, you don't need that grip in order to get done what you want to get done. Yeah, I want to be really clear.

I'm so glad you said that because I think I don't know that I spoke clearly enough. I have, I believe, let that go many years ago, by the way. And so I was referencing previously saying that it served me. And what I was going to say before you said it, and I'm really glad you did, was it's so fatiguing. Yes. To have ruminating thoughts.

I mean, literally, and what you're explaining to me is it's actually brain fatigue as well. So I'm not, it's not just physical fatigue in my body. And I think we all know that we carry so much stress in our bodies. And particularly those of you that are high performers. And so I'm wondering in your case, like was there a reason you fell into this, stumbled into it or pursued it as something you wanted to be doing?

Was there a life event or something going on with yourself? I know the answer to this, but I want them to know that cause you to be in this world. Yeah, I mean, I've been into personal development self-help since I was probably 16 when I saw, you know, my mom bought Tony Robbins tapes off of QVC or some infomercial. And I was like, all right, let's put it in. My dad had all the Nightingale Cohn-it tapes that came in the big plastic boxes. So I was always wanting to improve my life. And it just so happens.

I was at a Tony Robbins event in 2002. I had done UPW that had transformed my life. It was a breakthrough. Oh my gosh, I can actually change how I feel. I can actually have agency over my life. And it seems probably ridiculous for many of the people listening. But I guarantee you there's a point in your life where you just thought things happened to you. Like the world, you know, if someone says something, then you're angry because someone said something.

You know, like everything's lucky breaks. Everything's just the way it was. So, you know, Tony, that first UPW weekend taught me like, oh, I can change the way I feel, which is to me step one in any sort of journey of change. Like, I have agency. Not that there aren't outside circumstances, but I have agency. So I got deep into Tony's work and at a leadership conference in San Diego. So this was training to be a crew member to volunteer at his events.

He came up on stage and he did this little tapping demonstration. He handed out this sheet of paper. I can still see it. Just like one sheet had the points on it. And he did it. And it was just like, I did it with him. It was like, whoa, something shifted. So I went home.

I bought a bunch of books. I went online. I got passionate about it. I spent the next couple of years just doing it with friends and family. It was like the running joke was don't say anything is wrong around Nick because he's going to make you tap on it. Like, if you and I were hanging out, Ed and you said, my shoulder hurts. I'd be like, let's go. What do we got?

You know, let's tap on it. here we go, you know. Oh, I'm upset about this. So it was just using it with everyone. I started working with clients, not charging them, just people I knew. I was like, I'm a coach. I'll do this tapping thing with you. And then in 2007, I had the inspiration to make a documentary film about tapping,

but $40,000 worth of camera equipment on credit cards and credit lines. No idea what I was doing when it came to filmmaking. And it was hard that. Like, you know, now you can grab your iPhone and film stuff. But like 2007, it was like watching you. YouTube videos on how to set up shots. Oh, gosh. You know, I enlisted my little sister, Jessica, who was 21 at the time, one of my best

friends from high school. And we set off on this journey to just document what was happening out there. So to your original question, I just wanted to feel better. I just wanted to have control. I mean, I had certain summit peak experiences, like this neck pain that wouldn't go away. And I tapped on it. And it was like, how did that just happen? What do you mean this went away?

Like, I've been popping Advil for three days. and it still hurts. And I did this weird tapping thing. And it went away. So in the documentary film, I wanted to show that to the world. I wanted to prove it. So we have John in the film.

And the film is dated, but it holds up. We released it in 2008. We have John, who was a Vietnam veteran. He had chronic back pain for 30 years. We go to his house before in Minneapolis. You see him roaning as he sits down.

You see all the surgeries he's had, like all the meds he's been on, everything. Then he comes to this event in Connecticut that we put on with 10 other people. He does this tapping. What does he tap on guilt about Vietnam, things that he did there, family stuff, stress, all these things. He wakes up the second morning of the event, pain free for the first time in 30 years. 30 years, right?

He's sitting, you see him. He's sitting on the floor. He's like, I haven't sat on the floor in 30 years. Like, my back doesn't hurt. All right. So that was the start of this journey that's now been, you know, books. and the app and, you know, all these things to just spread this message because, look, what holds it back is that it looks ridiculous, right?

Why are we doing what we're doing? But we now have the data. We have institutions like Harvard and Yale and Columbia studying it because they're looking and going, well, you can't really ignore 18 million data points. Like, you can't ignore this much positive results. You can't ignore effect sizes that beat everything else out there in the industry. Like something is here. And that's why I think the tipping point's happening.

So great, brother. By the way, those of you listen, whatever something you're passionate about, can you imagine it turning into something, whatever it is that you're doing, you think you're millions of miles away from being somebody that could be the most sought after person in history. And a decade later, you wake up and you're number one. And so you never know. Let's go a little deeper of what we just saw or listened to with Thomas. So are there, let's be a little more specific. Obviously, they should get the app. They should actually just get your books too. But can you take us through maybe some more specificity of where these points are? Yeah. Like, give us the kitchen sink a little bit. Is there any auditory component, breathing component, eyes open, eyes closed, doesn't matter, etc. Why don't we have an experience? Because we can do it. I know some people, you know, if you're driving, pull over, save it for later. You know, just be safe.

You want to have both hands. But why don't we have a little five-minute experience? Because everyone at home, no matter what they're going through, like, I can guide generally so you can go, okay, let's see if something can shift. Let's do it. All right. So, Ed, you know, you can also be our guinea pig. You don't have to talk about it out loud.

But if there's something, you know, when we're tap, we always start with what's the thing? What are we trying to shift? So I mentioned pain a couple times. You could be like, oh, my gosh, my shoulders are so tense. You know, the body's a great clue to how we're feeling and we can often notice things. So you could maybe take a breath and go, how open is my breath, right? A lot of times we have all this constriction in our breath. So try that right now and just see if there's any constriction there.

And what's going on in your life? Are you anxious about something? You angry about something that happened two weeks ago and you just can't stop thinking about it. Are you worried about something in the future? Like, what's the thing that you go, gosh, if I could just turn down the volume on this a little bit? If I could let this go a little bit. If I could stop the loop a little bit, I would feel better. So go ahead and just pick one thing and then give it a number on a scale of zero to 10.

So everyone out there are listening, you got your one thing. You go, oh, I'm anxious about this thing that's coming up. and it's an eight or a nine. And you don't have to be perfect about it. We're just tuning it, tuning into it. We're bringing it up. We're doing this on purpose. We're actually, some people are like,

oh, why are we thinking these negative thoughts? It's like, look, they're there. They're running the show, whether you're paying attention to it or not. We're gonna give them a little bit of space, a little bit of voice, and then we're gonna move through them. So we have our target. We have our number.

And then we're just gonna start tapping. We start tapping on what we call the side of the hand. And if you're listening, it's on the outside of the hand below the pinky. So you're taking the four fingers of one hand, and you're just making repetitive contact with the other hand. All right. So we're bringing it up.

We're tapping gently. And then sometimes we say some words out loud. If you're doing a session, you can just listen along. I'm going to guide you through and just hear the word. So I'm going to say, even though I'm holding on to this stress, and you can just say that internally. If you're home and you want to just say that out loud, that's great. I choose to relax now.

We're bringing up the stressor, so even though I'm holding on to this stress, I choose to relax now. We're still tapping on the side of the hand, even though I'm holding on to this thing, whatever it is, tune into it. I choose to relax now. And now we'll tap through the points.

The first point is the inside of the eyebrow, right where the hair ends and it meets the nose. you can tap with one hand, the other hand, or both. These meridians, these mechanoreceptors, run down both sides of the body. So you're just tapping gently. And now put your attention back on this thing. So if it's an anxious thought, you keep thinking, go ahead, think it now. If it's a loop, like, how am I going to solve this?

Or I can't believe they said that. Oh, my back for so much. Just put your attention there now. You're doing great. Now moving to the side of the eye, it's not at the temple. It's right next to the eye on the bone. Again, one side or both sides, tapping gently, breathing gently, putting your attention on this thought.

You're doing great, just whatever comes up. And it's a lot going on. You're trying to figure out where the points are and think the thoughts. That's okay. It's working. You're getting there. You're learning it. Now we move to under the eye.

Put your attention back on what you're anxious about. What you're stressed about, what you're holding on to in your body, that tension in your breath. Notice it now. Now we move under the nose, right in that little crease there, above the lip, below the nose, tapping gently with two fingers, breathing gently, putting your thoughts back on that stressor.

If something else comes up, that's okay. Sometimes we start with one thing and you go, gosh, I'm really stressed about this other thing. Just follow that wherever it goes. Now we move under the mouth. It's above the chin, below the lip, in that little crease there. Tapping gently, breathing gently, putting your attention back on that thought. What's going on?

Why are you holding on to it? What if you could let it go? Now we move for the collarbone point. Feel for the two little bones of the collarbone. You can go right below it and tap with all ten fingers, both hands. We got two points left. after this, you're doing great. Bring your attention back.

Why is your body holding on to this? What's this pain about? What's this anxiety about? What's this loop about? And what if you could let it go? Just notice what your mind tells you. Notice that places where your mind pushes back. No, I can't let this go.

Now we move underneath the arm. It's right underneath the armpit. Hard to see here for me. About three inches underneath the armpit, either side of the body, right on the brawl line for women, and you're just tapping gently, bringing your attention back to that thought,

that stress, that anxiety. And the last point is right at the top of the head, crown, tapping gently, letting go. And we brought it up. We'll do one more quick round. You know the points now. I want you to go back straight to the eyebrow

and just tap gently and ask yourself, What if I let this go? Just see what comes up. Side of the eye. What if you could relax now? Under the eye. What if you could downshift a little bit now?

Opening up to that possibility. Noticing that thought, that feeling, that anxiety, that anger fading away under the nose. Noticing a sense of peace beginning to settle in. And maybe some ideas, some awareness as to what's really going on here, why you've been holding on, how you might let it go. Whatever comes up, you're doing great. Under the mouth, noticing your body relax, your breath deepened. All is well, collarbone, relaxing, even more.

Letting it go, feeling strong, round, and safe no matter what came up underneath the arm, letting go, top of the head, all as well. And you can gently stop tapping and take a breath in and let it go. That was two quick rounds. Bro, that is so good. Again, you're the pro, but for me, instantly going into my routine and my pattern shifts my neurology. I just feel it. And obviously these

tapping centers are obviously critical, but you're welcome, by the way, everybody. Usually that cost the big bucks. I gave it to you for nothing today. I know my breath deep in there. I checked it in the beginning and then, you know, it's like

wasn't anxious, right, but we're doing the interview. We're in it. It's happening. You know, and then a couple rounds and it just settled a little bit more and I can breathe more deeply. I don't know what. That was like for you it looked like you settled they had a little smile on your face at one point I did I'd by the way it wasn't even conscious of I was smiling but the other thing I can tell you that I have right now I have a little bit more I would I would say the word I would use is focus

to be honest with you like clarity of focus because my thing since you asked and my thing is that I was working on was overwhelm yeah I have a tendency to overwhelm this day's overwhelming for me lots of meetings lots of appointments I know what I've got the next day and that rumination thing when I say it's gone it is to an extent but I overwhelmed myself and yeah when I'm done with today I got that tomorrow and I get this next Monday and so I'm not feeling that overwhelmed in any way right now and so bro I just think you know between what we witnessed with Thomas what you and I just did right now what you did right now rather let me rephrase that and everything

that you're about I I really feel like I want to bring ideas and solutions to the audience that either A they're not familiar with at all or B thought they were, but then when they get on with the master, they start to see, wow, there's another level of this that if I actually, and by the way, one thing, all you listen to on audio, one thing you might want to do is go see the YouTube when you get a chance if you're not on there. So you can even see the rhythmic pattern and the pace. And then I think you'd like me to do this, but I should promote your work as well, right? So what would you tell someone that's listening or watching? Like next step to go deeper would be what? What would they do?

Yeah, I mean, there's two great options right now. Like you mentioned, we've got this new book out called ReWired. It was a New York Times bestseller, the first week out, which we're all excited about. Wrote it with my siblings, Alex and Jessica, with a forward by our bud, Tony Robbins. So, you know, I told you how I learned tapping from Tony 20 years ago. It's great. Met him about a decade ago through some charity work I was doing here in Sandy Hook. He came into town, completely serendipitous connection.

and he's actually the only outside investor in the Tapping Solution app. He's got a 2% ownership that he donates to Feeding America or whatever a feeding thing he's working on at that moment. And we match that with 3%. So it's been just a beautiful partnership of giving. So that book is wonderful, great way to go deep on it. And then I mentioned the app a couple times. So we have this app that's had, you know, 18 million measured completed sessions, 34 million total completed sessions.

It's free to download. There's probably 40 to 50 free tapping meditations, and then there's a thousand more with the premium membership if people, you know, want to go there. You mentioned overwhelmed. We have one in there called Motivate Me to Have a Productive Day. So this new thing, and I'm actually studying it with a couple researchers of behavioral resistance like that we actually measure the resistance to doing something. So we have, motivate me to have a productive day, motivate me to write.

So one of the largest effect sizes, meaning like what's the drop in the zero to ten scale? is motivate me to write. So for writer's block, like people are stuck. It's this thing that we identify. It's kind of a new thing in behavioral research where we're actually saying,

hey, there's like a block to this, right? When you have, I know it's writer's block, but like there's a physical part of it. There's thoughts around it. There's beliefs around it. And the idea that we can change those beliefs that we can unblock it,

like that drastically in 10 minutes. So, you know, I do overwhelm too. That's my tap. People say, what do you tap for now? It's overwhelmed. It's overwhelmed. It's overwhelmed of wonderful things half the time. You know, it's like,

opportunities and possibilities. And I chase way too many things and way too. So I've got to be like, okay, even though I'm overwhelmed, I choose to relax now and bring that clarity and focus back, you know. So yeah, download the app. It's free to download. Great to share with those you love. Pick up the book.

And that's a great place to start. This is why podcasts like mine, actually there's only one, mine, a kid that exists. This is what it's all about. You spend some time, and when it's over, you're different. You're improved. And you did that today, bro. By the way, I should also just give a shout out to his brother, Alex,

because that's how I know you. And so you come from good stock, bro. We got a true family business. My dad's our CFO. My mom runs the foundation. My brother-in-law does the coding for the app now. It is, you know. Is that right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's nonstop. And imagine, guys, be open to the universe. and God bringing into your life where your journey may lead. He's just at an event with Tony, sees tapping, and here we are, and his whole family's involved. So isn't that cool, the journey of life when you find something special that you love, and you never know how good you can get at something, and then you find yourself on my show. And I tell you, Ed, you know, it's day after day, as you know, of just like one mission of sharing this with people.

And what's particularly interesting about this is that, like, I've used the tool along the way every step. I mean, we're making the movie. My gosh, there was times we had no clue what we were doing. And we hit, I mean, we filmed 100 hours of garbage footage. You know, I am broke. I'm living in a 500 square foot apartment. I've got, you know, credit cards and credit lines. I'm making a movie and I've never done it before. So the opportunity to freeze, and this is what happens to so many dreams, complete overwhelm, fight or flight response, no idea what to do. You freeze. And you buckle, right? You're just like, people give up.

Like, those are the moments when people give up. So I would just go, even though I don't know what to do next, right? I don't know if I'm going to be able to pull this off, like giving a voice to all the things that were happening anyway. And my body would relax and I would get clarity and time and again, it'd be like, you know what? We've been stuck with 100 hours of footage that is just garbage footage. What if we held an event where we showed the people getting the results? That was just an insight that came in because I actually.

relax for a moment and like thought about things as opposed to panicked about things so wherever you are on your journey like when you're feeling that resistance and pressure you're about to give up like that is the moment do five minutes of tapping and everything can change for you bro i'm really glad we added that right there i hope everyone's been stuck around to hear that last part because that's huge and all of you always heard these things whatever you're going to call them flow state zen the zone blah blah blah blah blah that's where your genius state is And what he just described to you is in that moments of overwhelming, he finally got into that state where his genius, his creativity.

I think you're listening as a Christian, the Holy Spirit's coming through, and you're hearing the voice. And so, man, this was good, brother. This was good. Thank you so much. So, guys, this was Nick Orner. I guess go get the book. Go get rewired and go to the app as well.

And then start on this journey. It's going to change your life. It's going to improve your life very much. Nick, thank you. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. absolute pleasure thanks everyone god bless you everyone max out this is the edin myland