THE ED MYLETT SHOW - How to Make Anyone Instantly Like You (Without Saying a Word) | Ed Mylett

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Starting point is 00:00:54 That's cardiff.com slash ed. Cardiff.com. Real growth, fast funding, Cardiff, borrow better. So you know one of the things that gets overlooked when you're taking daily supplements is the actual quality of the supplement itself. And creatine is one of the most research and effective supplements available. But as the categories exploded, most brands have focused more on like flavors, formats, or their marketing, instead of actually making the creatine better itself.

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Starting point is 00:02:47 communication and maybe more important even what you say is your ability to listen to people. It's a huge part of communication. You know, I've taught you before that people don't respond to what they hear or see, they respond to how they feel when they interact with you. And one of the best ways to make somebody feel good is that they feel listened to and that they feel heard. And it's one of the skills that I struggle with the most, which is why I'm so excited to cover this with you today, because quite frankly, it's something that I've struggled with myself is my ability to just be present and to listen to people. And so like many of the shows, I'm excited to teach these things to you for your own benefit, but it also helps me in owning this material. And frankly,

Starting point is 00:03:25 anything you teach to people, you end up owning more yourself. And so very, very excited to cover this with you here today. And like I said, it's not something I've been very good at my entire life as being a great listener. So I want to get right into it. And what caused me to do the show today is really two things. I had someone join me on my jet a few weeks ago on a pretty long flight. And there was a group of people, but one particular guy who's an entrepreneur, and I won't say who he is. But he spent a three-hour flight with me on my jet. So he spent about three hours with me about a foot and a half from me. And for three straight hours, he did not ask me one question about myself. He did not listen to one thing I had to say, didn't ask me for any

Starting point is 00:04:01 advice, and he talked about himself for three hours. This is somebody prior to that flight that I really liked. I was struck, and so were other people in the flight than when they landed. And I don't mean that I'm a big deal or anything like that, but they were shocked why a rising entrepreneur wouldn't take advantage of the time of being with me to ask me questions. I think most of you, if we spent three hours together, you'd probably want to ask me a question or two, and he did not ask me one single question. And he talked about himself and his life and his background and what he had achieved and what he was going to achieve and what he was good at and all those things. And it was probably true. But I found myself when the flight was over,

Starting point is 00:04:38 quite honestly, not liking him quite as much as I did before the flight because people don't like to hear about you all the time. People want to feel heard. They want to feel listened to. And he didn't do any of that the entire flight. Plus, the fact, he didn't learn anything that flight. So remember this. I know there's the old adage that you have two eyes and two ears in one mouth for a reason, and you ought to use them in that ratio, but really you should even use your mouth even less. And so two things happened on that flight. One, he didn't get anything out of it. He didn't learn anything. And two, it made the people around him, quite frankly, not care for him to the extent they could have because he's a really good guy. But he just talked the entire time. And I don't think he did it out of ego. I think he did it because he was nervous.

Starting point is 00:05:17 And so that's one thing I want you to check in the very beginning. When you get nervous, I do. When you get nervous, do you begin to talk more. One of the great things about my show is that I've had to learn to listen more. And people say all in a time, one of the reasons they like my show is I seem so excited and so interested in what people are saying because I sincerely am. I've learned that being a great listener is easier than being a great talker. Because being a great listener, the pressure's off you to come up with a perfect thing to say, right? The perfect response, the perfect phrase, that sounds smarter or better than somebody. You don't have to do that when you're a great listener. And people's favorite topic, number one, remember this. People's favorite topic is

Starting point is 00:05:54 themselves. They love to talk about themselves. One of the things I found over and over in my life and my friends get a kick out of this. But when I play golf, you know, you'll spend four or five hours with somebody when you're on a golf course. And oftentimes my friends will tell me, man, Dave really liked you, Ed. Like he really enjoyed the time with you, Eddie, so much. But he doesn't know anything about you. And one of the reasons they like me so much is I don't talk about myself. I love to talk about them. I love to ask questions about them. And so it's interesting. When we're done, they really, really like me and they know nothing about me. And they wonder why they like me. But the reason they like me is I allowed them to talk about themselves.

Starting point is 00:06:28 Plus the fact, the way I look at life, I already know about me. I'm not going to learn anything else by talking about myself. I'm going to learn by asking them questions about them. And so I think being a great listener has lots of benefits. One, people will like you more. Two, you're going to learn more. Three, it takes the pressure off you. And so listening skills are so And even as we cover this, you may say, I'm a great listener. Well, let's go through some things and see how good we all are. Because even on my show, I'll be honest with you, I watch replays back of my show, and I interrupt too much.

Starting point is 00:06:57 I jump in too much. I finish people's sentences for them too often. And that's an ego thing, almost like I think I can say it better than them. In fact, I'm so bad at it, I'll be honest with you. Before every show, I tell them, hey, this isn't like any other interview you've been on before. I'm going to interrupt you. You can interrupt me. We'll make it like a real conversation.

Starting point is 00:07:12 And all of my guests always politely say, wonderful, that's great. I want you to cut me off. But the truth is that's not how a great conversation goes. It's not two people interrupting each other all the time. It's one person talking, another person listening until they're finished speaking, and then responding. So this is something I'm not very good at. And so I teach this to you today, not being critical of you, but knowing that it's something I'm going to have to get better at myself. So here we go.

Starting point is 00:07:36 Let's talk about some critical steps of being a great listener. You know, there's this thing that's out there too that says, hey, when you're speaking to a woman, she doesn't want you to solve her problems. You just want you to listen to her. You've all heard this before, right? Men, that's different. Let me tell you, none of this stuff is gender-specific. It's not true at all. Nobody wants you to solve their problem necessarily.

Starting point is 00:07:55 Not right away. Everybody wants to be heard. Everybody wants to be listened to. Everybody likes to talk about themselves. And so just please remember that. This is not gender-specific. Men and women aren't different on this. Men like to be heard as well.

Starting point is 00:08:08 Men like to be important. Men like to be funny. Men like to be interesting. Men want to share their ideas and thoughts and worries and fears with other people just like women do. So remember this. You don't always want to just go solve their problem right away. Next thing is this.

Starting point is 00:08:23 Always be asking people for understanding so that when they say something, when they're finished speaking, ask them, so what I think you're saying is, or what I'm hearing is, or clarify this for me, because this shows how deeply you were listening when you ask for clarification. And what I'm hearing is, by the way, when you say the sentence of somebody,

Starting point is 00:08:41 so what I'm hearing is, that lets them know you were hearing them, that you were listening to them. So as I was listening to you, this is what I understood. Help me understand. Clarify for me, because this gives a deeper sense you were listening to somebody. The next thing is what I'm doing right now with you.

Starting point is 00:08:56 Make eye contact. Look right at them when you're talking to them. Don't be distracted. Don't look around. Don't look at your phone. The way you tell me I'm important is by looking at me. I have a significant person in my life, and one of the things that drives me crazy

Starting point is 00:09:08 is I'm always saying, are you listening to me? And she's always like, yes, of course I'm listening to you. And I'm like, well, could you look at me and let me know you're listening to me? I'm not going to say who that is either. But we all have that person in life who they're listening, but they don't know to let us know they're listening. One of the best ways you can do that is by just looking right at somebody, nodding with them when they say something you agree with, right? Smiling when it's funny. Like giving a normal response, and you'd say, well, this is basic stuff.

Starting point is 00:09:37 You'd be surprised how often you look away, how often you're not focused. The next thing is check your body language. Are you leaning in? Are you welcoming? Are you warm? Or are your arms crossed when you're talking to somebody? See, I have this tendency. When I'm really listening, I get really drawn in. One of the things I do is I get very serious. And I almost begin to grimace and make a face because I'm so interested. I'm in deep thought. But what happens is my visual on my face doesn't indicate to them that I'm enjoying what they're saying or that I'm listening very deeply. So make sure that your facial expression, this may seem basic, but your facial expression, matches the moment, matches the emotion.

Starting point is 00:10:16 Some other people do something different. They're always smiling when something very serious is being said. That's not an appropriate facial expression, and it looks like you're not listening or it disconnects the connection, if you will, no pun intended, between you and that person. So check your facial expressions. Make sure you're looking at them. Check your physiology and your body language.

Starting point is 00:10:37 The next thing is that when someone's talking, the highest form of listening, is to let them finish their sentence. Do not interrupt them. Do not interrupt them. I do this all the time when I get excited. Oh, really? Almost like I want to jump in and get my point in before they're finished or I want to sound smarter or if I don't say it now, I'm going to forget to say it. Probably the number one weakness in my ability in listening to people is my desire and tendency to jump in before they finish their thought. And what that says is my thoughts more important than yours. My needs are more important than you. I'm done listening to what you're saying. Be careful to say things. things like this when they're talking. Uh-huh. Right. Got it. Yeah. Wow. Because what that does is it's called a nudge. You're nudging them along verbally to finish. It's like, hurry up. I got something to say. Uh-huh. Right. And that nudges them verbally. I used to think that those were things I was

Starting point is 00:11:30 saying that confirmed what they were saying, but it was really what it was really happening is I would nudge. Better is that when they're done, you say, wow, or that's interesting. Or you at least respond when they're finished. All responses are wonderful once they're finished speaking, but don't do the verbal nudges that get them to speed up and finish. Don't finish sentences for people next. It's another thing I do. They'll be saying something and they'll be struggling for a word and I give them the word. Let them find the word. It's their word, not yours. And you're stealing control of the conversation from them and making them feel like you're not listening to them. Don't finish their sentences. Don't give them better words. Don't talk over them. Don't interrupt

Starting point is 00:12:06 them. These are all things that we all kind of do from time. time when we get excited. I'm not suggesting if someone has made an incredible point that you don't begin to laugh or jump in when it's your pattern with somebody you're not being a good listener. Also use acknowledgement statements when they're done. I agree that's wonderful. That's amazing. Congratulations. Like do things like that that acknowledge what they said because when you acknowledge what they've said they feel open. That's an invitation to say more. But when you don't acknowledge what they've said, you don't give a statement to it when they're done,

Starting point is 00:12:38 then they don't feel comfortable continuing to speak. And so ask probative questions. So when you ask somebody, for example, oh, if they're new to you, do you have kids? They say, yes, I do. A follow-up question is, what are their names? What are their ages? Begin to learn the volley of follow-up questions.

Starting point is 00:12:53 The more specific questions you ask, the more what I call follow-up questions, the more and more interested you appear to somebody. Let me give you one more huge thing in being a great listener. Where appropriate, you touch somebody. So when they're talking, if they're leaning in, it's an emotion

Starting point is 00:13:07 when you grab their hand or you touch their knee or when they're finished speaking you shake their hand or hug them or pat them on the shoulder and by the way this has to be appropriate right especially when you're talking about different genders be very careful of this but one of the ways you anchor in i'm listening to you is with a touch it anchors in the emotion so i'll often be careful when i shake their hand of touching them or touching their shoulder or hugging them when we're done or patting them on the shoulder or knee or something like that that just acknowledges i'm hearing you if it's a guy Maybe it's a fist pump or a high five, right? But it acknowledges the listening and it encourages them to continue.

Starting point is 00:13:43 So that is a little bit gender-specific, but I just want to reinforce to you that that just shows you're listening. Then there's a series of questions I think you should ask yourself, just sort of a checklist of whether or not you're a great listener. So ask yourself this. In conversations you have, do you intend to do more or less talking than the other person? This is a huge one for me, especially in business or even in social as well. Do I talk more than them in the conversation? If I've come out of a good conversation, I've talked less than the other person has talked. Man, is this a difficult one for me?

Starting point is 00:14:13 Particularly when you're in a position of authority with somebody, when they're asking you a lot of questions and you're just answering, make sure you're feeding questions back to them. A great conversation is at least a 50-50 split, but I think the best of them, they've talked more than me. That way, I think I've given them more of my emotion and caring and concern than they've given to me. So ask yourself, what are your ratios in your average conversations? This is true, by the way, in everything.

Starting point is 00:14:37 In your business meetings, in your sales meetings, with your children, with your spouse, with your friends, with someone you're comfortable with for 30 years and someone you've met for 30 seconds. Who talks more in your exchanges? Number two, when you don't understand what they're saying, do you ask them questions? This is such a huge form of connection with people. Oftentimes, if we don't understand something somebody said, we don't ask them a question about it because it may make us look not so smart or not very prepared. But the way that you really indicate I'm listening to you is, hey, can you help me understand this?

Starting point is 00:15:10 And you ask for understanding. I didn't understand what that word meant. Or I'm not sure who Bill is that you're referring to. Bill who? When you begin to ask questions of understanding, the connection deepens with that person. Another question to ask yourself is when you're in a conversation with somebody, do you often try to figure out what they're going to say before they finish saying it? This is an indication that you're not present with them when you're listening and you're trying to get them to finish speaking so that you're can jump in and say your very important thing.

Starting point is 00:15:37 So don't be trying to project forward what they're about to say because that means you're not listening in the present and there's a disconnect when you do that. So ask yourself this, do I often or ever try to project forward what they're going to say before they've said it? Next, do you find yourself just not paying attention when somebody's speaking to you? I mean, maybe you are looking around or do you find yourself just thinking about other things when people speak to you? This is a value issue.

Starting point is 00:16:00 It really means that these other things are more important to you than what this person is saying. to build a habit and a pattern of truly not paying attention. One of the reasons I enjoy my interview so much, and quite frankly, my connection with my guests are so long lasting after the program is because I am so interested in what they're saying. And I'm interested in what all people are saying. If you were my Uber driver, I think my Uber drivers would tell you, man, this guy is overly interested in what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:16:26 And my cameraman, Mike is nodding right now because he's been in enough Uber's with me to know. I talk to everybody. I think people are gifts, and I believe the way you open them up is by asking them questions. And so I don't care if you're a server in a restaurant, my Uber driver, a guest on my show who's worth a billion dollars of the top athletes in the world, my pattern of conversations with people is very similar.

Starting point is 00:16:47 I'm interested in what they're saying sincerely. And I think you should just begin to ask yourself that question. Are you sincerely interested in what they're saying? Because they can feel this intuitively. Another thing to ask yourself is in a conversation, can you intuitively sort of tell the difference between what somebody is saying and what they really feel? Why is this so important?

Starting point is 00:17:06 Because oftentimes people wear social masks with us, don't they? And they'll tell us things, frankly, that just aren't true. Or don't completely confirm the way they're feeling about something. And so a deep level of listening is you can almost feel what they really sense about something or what they're really feeling, not just listening to the words. This is a way of connecting with someone. They don't even know you're connecting with them. But their words don't match their feelings.

Starting point is 00:17:30 And when you can connect with their real feeling, man, have you not only got influence over them, but most importantly, you've got a connection with them. Next one. In conversations with people, do you find yourself finishing their sentences or supplying them with better words? Don't do that. I have this mistake sometimes where I finish their sentence for them, right? And I think, oh, we're connecting. I'm with you.

Starting point is 00:17:49 That's not what it does. It disconnects you from somebody when you use a better word or a different word. They say, you know what? I really was just really sad. Oh, you were just really bummed out then, huh? You've rephrased something for them. Another way of listening the wrong way I think is, do you something? Sometimes only hear the facts and details they're giving and not listening for the emotion behind it.

Starting point is 00:18:09 Just listening for the emotion from somebody gives you a much deeper level of connection with them than just listening to the facts and figures. This is important, especially in sales when someone's giving you facts and figures back. If you can connect with the emotion of it, big, big difference. Lastly, do you struggle with seeing things from that person's perspective like really connecting with them, really empathizing with them, really believing in them? This is so important when you're listening to somebody is to really try to connect with their point of view. Because the way you help influence me is if I can meet you where you are, I can take you where we need to go. But if I can't meet you where you are by letting you use your words, your emotions, listening for the emotion behind it, really listening for your point of view. Maybe you sell cars, for example.

Starting point is 00:18:52 This person's had a really traumatic time buying cars in the past. They're very skeptical about it. You've got to be able to see it from their point of view. This is true with getting your children to behave different. or interacting with your spouse, it's critical that you meet with them where they are and take them where you're going. So why are all these skills so important, especially from a business perspective? Because this has been very detailed, very granular. The reason it's so important is because it's really influenced somebody, they have to trust you.

Starting point is 00:19:19 And the way you do that is by building rapport with them. So one of the things I used to do incorrectly is I brought all this massive energy. Every people say, you've got to bring the most energy. The highest energy person does win. but the way that you really influence somebody is by connecting with them and listening and then matching them physically and their tonality as well. So when I talk back with somebody, I listen for their tonality. I listen to the volume of their voice, the pace of their voice, how they speak. I begin to try to match by listening to them the words they use, the tonality they use, and the volume they use.

Starting point is 00:19:51 If they use a certain set of words from time to time, if you were listening closely, if you then use some of those same words back to them, connect. So this is a form of influence. If this person sort of repeatedly use the words literally, literally, literally, you've heard that word three or four times. When I'm then going to be saying my stuff back them to influence them, I'm going to use the word literally. This is a connection word. It's part of the words they love. When I use words they love, I can influence them. This is a huge thing in influence, in closing, in moving people to make decisions that are best for themselves. If they talk at a pace like this, just like I'm talking at this pace right now, and I'm talking like this very fast, I break connection and we can't have rapport. So I want to

Starting point is 00:20:34 listen for the pace that they speak at, the cadence, also the tonality. You know, they talk kind of hunched over and quiet. I want to talk like that and a little bit better. If they talk at a certain volume, if they talk like this, I don't want to talk like this. The same time, if they talk like this, I don't want to talk like this. I wasn't listening for their volume level. We want to match their volume level. And so when you begin to match and mirror like this, use the words they use, just a few of them. Don't overcook it.

Starting point is 00:21:02 But when they've got three or four words they use and use one or two of those words, I can promise you you connect. When you speak at a similar pace to them in tonality, you connect. When you speak at a similar volume to them, you connect. If there are hand gestures as I'm listening and observing them, they use.

Starting point is 00:21:18 If they're constantly folding their hands like this, if you're on audio, I'm folding my hands right now. They pray or they have their hands down or they do some sort of a gesture with their hands or shoulders. I will oftentimes, I'm watching, this isn't manipulation, this is connecting with people. I'm listening so closely I can see their physical moves as well. If there's emotions I hear them go too often, which is regret or sadness, let's just say. They keep telling me stories about things they regret or they're sad of. I will share with them one of the things I regret and bring them with me.

Starting point is 00:21:49 If they talk about past achievements or they talk about, you know, some material. things, then I'll talk about some material things, or past achievements. I'm listening for them to give me the language, the words, the tonality that I can move them with. And this is also true in every area, but particularly in influence when we're trying to persuade people. So the reason this is so important is people have go-to words. And so if you're really listening closely, not only you connecting better with me, but they will tell you the three or four words they use a lot. Every human being does this, by the way. You do it too. You have a few words you use more than most. and if someone's really listening closely, they can hear what those words are.

Starting point is 00:22:25 And if I use one or two of those words back with you, I've connected with you on a deeper level. The next thing that's huge, by the way, in listening is to repeat back to them what you believe they've just said. Repeat back to them what you've heard. This is what I've heard. This is what I'm hearing. This is what I'm listening to. This is true when I'm interacting with my children. Before I just tell them I want to do something, I listen to them and I say, here's what daddy's hearing.

Starting point is 00:22:47 Is this true? That's really bothering you regularly. So what I'm listening to them, they know. I'm listening. Use acknowledgement statements. It's not done enough. People love to be complimented. I love to be complimented. You do. So after I've listened to you, after you've told me what you need to tell me, I want you to learn this sentence everybody right now. I just want to acknowledge you. I think you're amazing. I think you're incredible. Thank you for sharing this with me. That's awesome. And it might be with guys. You don't say, hey, bro, that was cool. Thanks, man. Man, I always love

Starting point is 00:23:13 connecting with you, brother. You're my brother. Always do a connection statement. Always do an acknowledgement. That's why I love you, man. Whatever it is, you know, people talk differently, on who they're around. Someone even known 30 years different than someone even known 30 minutes. But the fact of the matter is, I always do connection. I love you, brother. Thank you so much. That's why we're so close, man. That's why I love being around you. Whatever it is, you begin to say acknowledgement statements to somebody because it connects the conversation. It's what I call a post frame. After someone said something, the last thing I want you focus on, children, spouse, business, brand new person in a social environment or someone you know in 30 years, acknowledge them. Thank you. That was

Starting point is 00:23:49 awesome. Great meeting you if they're new, right? I get out of a new, I go, man, I enjoyed our time so much. Thank you. That's post-framing what we just talked about. If it's someone I've been with a long time and say, brother, man, that's why I love you, bro. That's why I love you. And then other people, it's like, you always just inspire me.

Starting point is 00:24:02 You fire me up. Thank you. I love how vulnerable you are. Whatever it is, I just want to acknowledge you. I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you. I just want to thank you. I just want to tell you you're awesome. I just want to tell you I believe in you.

Starting point is 00:24:13 Do an acknowledgement statement that post-frames what you've covered, and I promise you, you've now put a bow around being one of the great listener, that anyone will ever be around. It's going to make you one of the most well-liked and most influential people that you know. And by the way, isn't that we're after in life being well-liked and being influential? And that usually comes down

Starting point is 00:24:33 not to be an incredible orator, but being an incredible listener. And these are the skills. And these skills matter in every area. And building a church, and building a Boy Scout troupe, in building a softball team, in building a business,

Starting point is 00:24:45 and building any family, anything in life is that we want to be able to be liked and have influence. and that always comes down to what we make people feel, and more than anything, people feel great when they've been able to talk about themselves, but most importantly, they feel listened to, connected with, and acknowledged.

Starting point is 00:25:02 Listen to, connected with, and acknowledged. This is how we have influence over people, this is also how we make a difference in people's lives. The final piece of the puzzle is this, is that because of social media, we have such an advantage, and I just want to tell you something that doesn't happen enough, but when it has happened for you, man, does it feel like the connections even deep?

Starting point is 00:25:20 It doesn't matter what it is, is that when your separation from that person takes place and they leave you, especially if they don't live with you, whether that be a client, a best friend, a new friend, or someone you just met, following up a little while later with a text that just says, I enjoyed our time so much, I enjoyed listening to you. Thanks for sharing this with me. And maybe repeating back to them what you heard a little bit of. And when you do that, it's cemented them. Not only did he listen to me or she listened to me in my presence, but they continued to listen to me after. I was gone. They continued to connect with me. And this extends the connection and deepens the connection when after you physically separated. And even by the way, if this communication happened by phone and you weren't physically with them, for you to follow up after a phone call with a text a few hours later that just says, man, I enjoyed the talk so much. Thanks for sharing that with me. Always love when we connect. Or you always make me laugh. Or I'm so glad we're new friends now. I feel like I've made a new friend. Whatever it is, you strengthen and deepen the connection with people by letting them know later, hey, I heard you. Hey, I listened to you. So not only doing

Starting point is 00:26:24 great in their presence, but later confirming for them, I was with you. I heard you. I enjoyed it. I want to acknowledge you. Man, have you deepened the fact that you've listened to him. So very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. Hey, welcome back to the show, everybody. I'm honored to have this man here for the second time. The first time he was on the show, I sought him out saying, please come on the show because his book had made such an impact on me. And now he's got a new book out, by the way, before I introduced him called Super Communicators, how to unlock the secret language of connection. And it's a topic, as you all know, that I am fascinated by because I talk a lot about it on the show, except he's way more qualified than me.

Starting point is 00:27:07 And the reason he's way more qualified than me is this guy is a Pulitzer Prize winning writer. He's a New York Times bestselling author. And he's a renowned expert on habits. And also now, after reading his work, he's an expert on communication. So Charles Deweig, welcome back to the show. Thank you, Ed, for having me on. This is such a treat for me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:22 I love you, brother. You're going to listen to a big brain today, everybody, on a topic that you need to know more about. I got to tell you why I love your book so much. We were just talking about kids off camera. There's a few things I want my kids to have left my house with. One, I want them to have some faith, which is their morals and ethics. I want them to have some work ethic, self-confidence. And if I could give them a fourth thing, it would be the ability to be an outstanding.

Starting point is 00:27:45 communicator. And I just think it's one of the things that is the most important elements of life. I'm sure you agree. There's in the book a lot of examples of that. There's actually just great stories in the book. Give me one, because I want them to get the book, so I don't want to do the whole book, but give me one story from the book, this sort of illustrative of just, you thought one of the more interesting stories in the book. So they haven't understood. Because what's great about the way Charles writes at this book is that there's like points and tactics, and then I like the story to sort of reinforce it that may. And I, for me, facts tell you. story sell I remember stories and so I like the way that you weave these into the

Starting point is 00:28:19 work and that's why there's so many stories in there is because it's there's so much easier to remember so one of my favorite stories is is early in the book it's about Jim Lawler the CIA agent so good so Jim Jim is this guy who I've talked to a number of times he he's he's awesome he um he became a CIA officer when he was in his 30s and he wanted this so bad he like he struggled for the like he just ran after this so hard it was like he was desperate to be CIA officer They accept him. They send him off to training and then they send him to Europe to recruit foreign assets.

Starting point is 00:28:50 And he finds out he's the worst recruiter on earth. Like literally, he would go to like parties and he's in like he couldn't make conversation. He would like try and buddy up with people and they're like, you're a spy, aren't you? You're trying to get me to be a spy. They're like, I'm going to report you to the to the authorities. You're going to get deported. So he's like freaking out because he's like, I'm terrible at this. And then someone in his in his office says, look, there's this woman coming into town.

Starting point is 00:29:15 She's from the Middle East. She works for the foreign ministry. Why don't you get to know her a little bit and see if there's anything there? So he bumps into her to a restaurant the next day, right? Bumps. And he introduces himself as an oil speculator, strikes up a conversation, takes her to lunch the next day. They start sightseeing together. He sort of develops a little bit of a relationship.

Starting point is 00:29:32 He goes and he says to his boss, I think I'm recruiting this woman. I think she's going to be an asset for us. And then he, and his boss is like, that's fantastic. I'm glad to hear it. He goes, he has dinner with this. this woman Fatma and he says I'm not an oil speculator I work for the CIA now Fatma had been telling him she comes from a he never told me which nation but it's pretty obvious which one it is right she comes from a nation that recently had a religious theocracy revolution

Starting point is 00:30:00 and so the the fundamentalists have all taken over and she hates it she's like she's like they're making women wear hijabs or telling us we can't go to college I want to fight this but I don't know how And so Jim Lawler says to her the most practical thing possible. He's like, we want the same thing you do. Like we want, we want to free the people of your country. We want to empower women. Work for me for the CIA. And she grabs the table and starts shaking her head and she starts crying.

Starting point is 00:30:28 And she goes, no, no, I'm not going to do it. And just has a meltdown. And she says, they kill people in my country for doing this. I cannot believe that you have put me at risk since. Simply by striking up a friendship because if they ever find out you're in the CIA, they're going to think I'm in the CIA and she just she just bolts And Loller's like, I'm terrible at this like I'm such a bad recruiter So he goes back to his boss and he tells him what happened His boss is like dude. I already told Washington DC you recruited her as a spy like

Starting point is 00:31:01 Like you're gonna get fired if you can't close the deal on this this is this is your last chance. That's why we gave it to you So Jim spends all this time trying to figure out how do I what do I do? And he keeps on calling Fatima and eventually she picks up and he invites her to go to dinner a couple nights before she's going to fly back home and she says yes

Starting point is 00:31:21 because he says he's taken to an expensive restaurant and he has a notebook full full of ideas on how to convert her and he knows none of them are going to work. Like you cannot trick someone into taking a suicidal risk. Right. Right. It's just not going to

Starting point is 00:31:38 so he goes to dinner and she's in a she's really down because she's like you know I came to Europe I thought I was going to learn something about how to how to be more myself or how to change the world and I'm just going home and I'm the same person and what he starts trying to do is cheer up he tells a little stories he reminiscences about when they you know went sightseeing together and she just gets more and more glum and finally dessert comes and they're kind of by themselves at the table and Jim thinks of himself like should I try try to like recruit her again and he's like if I do that she's literally going to stand up and walk away so what he decides to do is he decides like this isn't going to work I'm giving up I'm just going to have a real conversation I'm going to be honest and he starts saying to her look I know how you feel because I feel exactly the same way I like I wanted this job my entire life and it turns out I'm terrible at it I am so disappointed to myself and I don't know how I'm I'm gonna go home and tell my dad that like I failed.

Starting point is 00:32:42 I got fired by the CIA and he talks this way. Now what he's doing obviously without even realizing it is he's matching her. Right, she was she was glum and he was trying to cheer up. That's not matching. Yep. He was matching her and she's she's listening to this and she starts crying and he's like I'm such a jerk and then the CIA you have to report every conversation. So he's gonna have to write up a memo and he's like those guys are gonna fire me

Starting point is 00:33:07 within seconds like they're just gonna laugh and he reaches over and he pats her arm and he's like I'm so sorry I did not mean to make you cry I am sorry and she says no no I think I can do this and then and he's so inexperienced he actually the first things out of his mouth is like no no no you don't have to do that like you don't have to do that like because he wasn't trying to manipulate her he was just trying to finally wasn't yeah he finally wasn't trying to manipulate her and he's like no no I don't want to put you at risk you don't have to do it and she's like she says no no what you want is important I think we can do this together So for the first time she was able to hear him.

Starting point is 00:33:41 She was able to hear all those things that he had said over weeks and weeks and weeks about helping the women of her country. She couldn't hear it until he matched her. Next day, she goes to a safe house. She gets trained in covert communications and other stuff. She's the best source in the Middle East for the next 20 years. Unbelievable. And Jim Lawler becomes one of the top recruiters in the entire CIA. He teaches that today.

Starting point is 00:34:05 It's one of the best stories ever. I love that story. Let's go, I'm going to pick it apart a little so people understand the dynamic in there. So when you say matching, was it that she wasn't an emotional conversation and he wasn't? Is that what you mean by that? That's a huge part of it. Okay, he was also vulnerable. But he was also vulnerable.

Starting point is 00:34:18 So she was not only was she in an emotional conversation, but he was listening to the type of emotion that she was transmitting, right? Instead of saying like, oh, you shouldn't feel bad. I'm going to cheer you up. He was saying, like, look, you feel bad. Like, let's just acknowledge that. And that matching feels good because it feels like someone's hearing us. I think it's a huge thing. I don't ever like saying gender-specific stuff because I don't believe it.

Starting point is 00:34:40 But I do think by and large, those two elements, women are better at naturally, meaning I think they're more naturally vulnerable in a conversation than a man can be. And I don't even like saying this, but I just, I think in general most people would agree with me. And then secondly, I think men try to fix things often, more often, so that when there is an emotional conversation near end, we just want to fix it or solve the problem or be the savior or be valuable. be important rather than just be with somebody and acknowledge it's not always men and women right sure it's not it's definitely it's definitely not but it's more prevalent i think and and i think what's

Starting point is 00:35:14 happening there is we're following falling back on what feels comfortable to us right it is for sure so so if you're saying something emotional and i get super practical and it pisses you off it's not so much that like i actually think we should be practical it's that i'm uncomfortable with emotion there you go and so i'm shying i'm going back to my safe place there you go and and and And actually, that safe place is emotional, right? Like, like, the reason I'm trying to solve your problem is like, it really bothers me that you're upset. I don't know how to deal with the fact that you're upset.

Starting point is 00:35:47 I want to make you feel better. I feel like that's my job and I feel like I'm letting you down and myself down. Like, that is emotional, right? Right. I'm just, I'm just disguising it as a practical conversation because that's my, that's my safe space. That's my pattern. That's how I hide. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:01 That's a zillion percent right. I told you we're going to go a bit long so we're going to Absolutely. Okay, let me ask you this. This is a hard one. And so I keep using the term nonverbal. I've used that. Let me couch it a little differently. Okay. Literally nonverbal. So types of communication that are not done verbally, meaning, mail, mail, written, email, text, whatever.

Starting point is 00:36:23 Yeah. I have found for me, if I'm transparent with people, I feel like I'm a pretty darn good verbal communicator. I've also found my friends that are hyperverbal people in general, again, another generality. aren't so good in the written word. And for some reason, when I write or text, it comes across as harsh, curt, sometimes aloof. My writing style does not make the impact in text or email

Starting point is 00:36:50 that my verbal style does. And I'm really not very good at that. So what about tips or keys on that? So what's going on there? So it's interesting. If we were having this conversation about 100 years ago, a little bit under 100 years ago, when phones first became popular,

Starting point is 00:37:06 what we would be talking about, and there were all these articles that said this, no one will ever be able to communicate on the telephone well. Because unless you can see someone, you're not going to figure out what's going on in their voice. You're not like, telephone communication is basically going to be for like sending over like grocery orders.

Starting point is 00:37:22 Now, you and I are both Gen X, right? Like when we were kids, we were on the phone for like seven hours a night. 100%. I have, I have friendships where I only talk to the person on the phone. So do I. And I still remember the phone numbers of my friends when I was a kid. I don't know anybody's phone number now, but I know Andy Quaren's phone number. Yes, right? It's like in there. Right, it's true. And so what's interesting is if we were to watch ourselves talking on the phone, what we would find is that we behave a little bit differently on the phone. When you're on the phone, people tend to over enunciate because they know that they can't see us, right? We tend to explain ourselves a little bit more. And when we make a joke, we laugh faster to let the other person know it's a joke. We know that they don't have the visual. signal and so we're trying to compensate by giving them more audio so now the thing is we've been

Starting point is 00:38:09 talking on the phones for over over a hundred years we've been communicating face-to-face for millennia the first email was sent in 1982 right most people didn't get an email account until the late 90s we basically have 20 years of learning how to how to communicate digitally we have not the rules about how that channel is different have not become intuitive yet so the solution is we have to think about it more when we're texting or emailing. And we have to say to ourselves, okay, and these are the tips. When I am online and I'm communicating that way, politeness matters a lot more than when I'm face to face.

Starting point is 00:38:47 And study after study has shown this, that if you say please and thank you in an email, there's like 70% higher response rate. Okay. Because I need to signal it, right? Now, if I'm texting you, I can be short. but if I send you an email and I treat it like a text, unless we're good friends,

Starting point is 00:39:07 that's my problem. Like, it's going to rub you the wrong way, right? So part of it is just saying, what are the rules for this particular channel? Because our instinct is to say, the rules for one channel is the rules for every channel. You're right. So we treat email and text and slack

Starting point is 00:39:23 and everything exactly the same way. But the truth is, if you just take a second and you say, like, oh, I don't have to say, please, necessarily in this text, because it could be short. But every email I should, like, and over backwards to be a little bit more polite. It works wonders. Brother, I'm such a bad emailer.

Starting point is 00:39:38 I'm so lazy with emails. I sometimes don't even put my name at the end of it. You know what I mean? Never mind to thank you. I think I'm the worst emailer that's ever lived. And I've had a lot of people, even that I've worked with, you know, even like in the podcast space with like, man, when I met you're so nice and kind of, I read your emails, you're scary. I'm like, really?

Starting point is 00:39:54 I didn't mean it that way. I was just trying to get to the point so we could go do something else. I thought email was the faster way, but you're 100% right. The rules of engagement, so to speak, are something that I've been a That right there was huge for me. And sometimes you can establish new rules, right? Like if you say to your employees like, look, I just want you know, I'm going to send you brusque emails because like I'm moving a million miles an hour. You should not read anything into that.

Starting point is 00:40:17 Now we know the rule. Well, now I've pre-framed it, but I don't do that. Yeah. And I treat everybody like they should know better and they don't. And by the way, the worst thing I'll do is I'll get a nice, long, you know, six paragraph email and I reply with like seven words. Right. And I wonder why they feel dismissed. in a conversation, that's my daughter.

Starting point is 00:40:33 Yep. Uh-huh. Right. That's the extent of my emails to people. So you're a thousand percent right. My son texts me K. He doesn't even put okay. He just puts K.

Starting point is 00:40:42 I'm like, how much lazier can you get? I relate to that. But that setting the ground rules, setting, like figuring out the rules together, we can do that in a conversation too. So if we're talking about, say, race, right? Which is a tough topic. If I start that conversation by saying, I like to talk to you about this and I just want to acknowledge, it's going to, it will,

Starting point is 00:41:01 likely be awkward, I will probably make mistakes and say things that I don't really, I'm not saying it the right way, you're probably going to make mistakes. Like, I think just as a ground rule, like, let's just say it's okay to say things and forgive each other for not getting it right. So now we've established, now all of a sudden that conversation about race feels so much easier. Right. We're both open. We're both vulnerable. We've both given ourselves some space to make a mistake and share our real thoughts. And the other thing is, if you don't create that space, then you're really not saying what you really think either and it's not an authentic exchange. I agree when you ask for permission. I'm going to ask you two more things. Sure. Okay. You said earlier something about repeating

Starting point is 00:41:42 back to someone, hey, what I think I heard you say was, help me understand this, right? I love that and totally agree. So, sorry, go ahead. Well, I want you to reply with that. And then also, what about the conversation's been over to me? When I feel the most listened to, you and I had lunch together. okay and you did that but 730 that night i get a message from you you're gone i'm gone and you say i just want to tell you something i enjoyed our conversation so much and the way that you spoke about your wife or what you shared about blah blah blah i just want to tell you it was so meaningful for me to me that's like what you've suggested on steroids that actually after the conversation has ended i come back later and say not only have i listened to what you said but i've been thinking about what you said

Starting point is 00:42:26 and it made a difference to me. I just want to share that I do that. And I think that's a way of me saying, I really value and appreciate what we discussed. And it feels so good. I've gotten an email like that from you. And like it felt really good to get it. And it was a great conversation.

Starting point is 00:42:40 Right. But like to know that it was meaningful to you. And it's much like laughing. It's you saying like, I want to connect. You wanted to say something. And I think I jumped in front of it. Oh, I was just going to talk about this looping for understanding, these three.

Starting point is 00:42:50 So looping for understanding. There's three steps to it. You ask a question, hopefully a deep question. repeat back in your own words what you heard someone say okay and then step number three ask if you got it right ask if you got it right because and it's that third step that we often forget to do and is the most powerful okay because what I'm saying it when I ask you if I got it right and I do this all the time I'm like like let me tell you what I hear you saying and like like tell me me if I'm getting this wrong is that we are saying to them not only do I want to understand

Starting point is 00:43:23 you I acknowledge that I might have missed something and you you might have phrased it in a way that doesn't actually capture what you want and so like when someone says that to me when they're like tell me if i'm getting this right and they repeat back what i just said i actually find it valuable as the speaker because i'm like no no no you like i did a bad job of explaining like the the thing that like i really care about because you didn't pick up on it and you were listening i need to get better at that and that feels good that's outstanding all right last question first off let me say this this is awesome Oh, thank you.

Starting point is 00:43:57 And I, both times we've had to interact together like this, it flies by for me. And frankly, that's because you're a super communicator. As are you. Oh, thank you. And the quality of your work, listen, guys, there's a lot of books. This man doesn't write a ton of them because they're so good when he writes them. There's so much in here, even in today's podcast. Like, I hope you understand the value of getting good at these, what I would call almost nuances

Starting point is 00:44:23 that make all the difference in the world. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Milet show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. Welcome back to Max out with Ed Milet. I got him.

Starting point is 00:44:41 Ah. I got E.T. Hey. We're in the building, man. We've been so glad to have you here. Thank you so much. Beautiful home, man. Thank you. Thank you. For family, man.

Starting point is 00:44:50 I feel, yeah, I don't do a lot of this. So those who know me know, know. I probably have done two, three podcasts. Yeah, well, wow. So this is, yeah, this is special. And as good as is to have you here, it's better to have Didi, your wife here with you figuring it all out. Yeah, yeah, no question.

Starting point is 00:45:05 So thank you. Yeah, thank you. So this is Eric Thomas, as you all know. And in my opinion, you guys know that I've been speaking for a long time. I think this is an anointed, gifted, incredible communicator because it comes from your heart. You just, you're outstanding. So people ask me all the time. If I have you on the show and I don't at least ask you this one thing,

Starting point is 00:45:23 because we were going to want to know this. Someone said, hey, I want to communicate. I want to speak better, not like you, you know, you are you. What would you tell them about communicate? Even if it's just like one-on-one or in a group of people, what's the key thing for you when you communicate with people? You can't communicate with a person when you don't know them. You know?

Starting point is 00:45:41 And I think what people do wrong when they speak is they want to come and give you what they want. Like they studied something, their life experience, they just want to come and give you that. You know, and I don't know about you, but some of the best restaurants have been where I've been able to go and order. Like I, you know, when my money changed a little bit, I was able to start going to restaurants and say like, yo, I don't want that. You know, say like, this is what I want.

Starting point is 00:46:00 Well, the Jasmine Rice comes with. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want jazz and right. Like, this is what I want, you know. And so for me, it's like when you get around people, when you spend enough time with people to see what people want, and then you give them what they need, to me that's what it's all about, you know? So it's like, we got to get out of this. This is what I want to talk about or this is what I want to say or this is how we.

Starting point is 00:46:23 It's like, no, my idols, Mother Teresa. Like, I used just to watch her movement, right? And she was the lowest of the pecking order when you talk about preach. You weren't an archbishop. She wasn't a pope. She was a nun. But yet you know who she is. And I would watch her and she would see, okay, here are the needs of the people.

Starting point is 00:46:38 When I watched Monica King, this dude could have easily been like a millionaire living in a, he moved with the people and said, hey, I'm going to give up my life and what I want to do to help. So for me, it's like, you can't affect a person. don't know what they want so you got to spend enough time with people just chilling with people hanging out with people that's why I was geek it's like it's not a studio I'm like oh we're it's crib this gonna be phenomenal just because the ethos like we're in your house this where you live like it's it's energy

Starting point is 00:47:09 already in the in the space you know and spirits you know already in the place so for me it's like you got to get to know the people spend time with the people and then once you find out what they need you like a cow you chew it up chew it up chew it up chew it up chew it up chew it up You study it, you study, and then when you get to them, you give them what they need. And of course they're going to be excited. It's because what they need. I love that.

Starting point is 00:47:30 So speaking of getting to know people, tell me about you. What's your day like now? What's your day like now? Everyone wants to know that about you. Yeah, yeah. So I should probably tell them about 10 years ago, it's not fair now. Hey, we know, but people know, like you talk about, look, I was homeless. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:44 I'll say, well, my life now, if you look at it's like, it's not fair. Did he retired back in March of last year? Okay. And so now our day is just our day, man. You know, our day is. just out, man, I'm free, man. It's a great feeling. I do want to say this to those of you are watching

Starting point is 00:47:58 who are not yet where you want to be. Like keep going. Like keep going. Don't quit. You're already in pain. You're already struggling. Like get something for your pain. It doesn't make sense to go through pain

Starting point is 00:48:10 and then not getting on the other side of it. So since you're already struggling, you're already going through it. Get on the other side. So what does my day look like? Like, yo, Dee and I got up at 3 o'clock. You know, she called a prayer line. You know, I had my own little prayer line I call.

Starting point is 00:48:23 we breakfast or a little small little breakfast just sitting there talking to each other we haven't worship with each other just like talking about the goodness like we can't believe we're here you know what I'm saying we went from Detroit to you know the world um you know we're going to the movies later on the day going out to eat driving around so it's not fair to talk about my day now you know but my day now is I promised her when we were younger because she worked first and supported my dream and I told her one day we're going to flip it you know and I'm I'm I'm You're going to stop working, and I'm going to spoil you and take care of you. So I'm like at a point of my life now where I'm getting to make good on my promise.

Starting point is 00:49:02 You know, and we're debt free right now, man, and just traveling the world, man. Oh, no man, nothing. And we're able to help kids go to college. We got a church we're building right now. My son just graduated. My daughter's a sophomore. So we just enjoy each other, you know, and it's a great feeling, man. Face change.

Starting point is 00:49:19 I love seeing somebody being their authentic self, like living their real destiny. Like it's one people you know your faith makes you happy right material things don't really make you happy One of things that really I find happy people is they're kind of living their life on their destiny They're on the track there the other thing too that makes us happy in life is like the Lord gave you certain gifts whether it's your discernment your brain your articulation how you nurture people You these gifts were all uniquely given happy people spend a lot of their life using those gifts the reason you're so happy is you're in a state of using your giftedness You're good at math use those gifts right if you're a great athlete use those gifts right great thinker, great person of faith, like use your giftedness. It'll make you happy. It was sewn into you for a reason. Before we start the interview with my next guest, just want to

Starting point is 00:50:01 remind you all that you can subscribe to the show on YouTube or follow the show on Apple or Spotify. We have all the links in our show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Now on with the show. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So, are you like me? Did you ever want to go to Yale? Do you ever want to go to an Ivy League school and wonder what it was like? You know, for me, there was a few obstacles. One was IQ. Two was grades. Three was college scores and money. So it kind of eliminated me. So you were almost there. I was almost there. I was this close. But today I'm going to bring you into what I think is one of the most popular courses at Yale School of Management and the lady who

Starting point is 00:50:39 teaches that class. We're going to go in there together today. So if you're interested in that, listen, and if that never interested you, would you like to be more influential, which I think is the most important skill set a human being can possess is to be able to influence themselves? and other human beings. And I have the best person on the planet, I think, to talk about it today. So Zoe Chance, welcome to the show. And thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. And I'm so happy to meet you. So let's go through some misconceptions about being a person of influence, because this is covered really in the very beginning of the book. And I want to go through a few of them because they were striking to me. Here's a big one. I think salespeople in general believe this.

Starting point is 00:51:18 And they say, if they understand the facts, they'll make the right decision. I even hear good salespeople. And I think these people that say, well, I just present the facts and let me make a decision. I think they are good at other things unconsciously. They're unaware they're good at that still makes them influential because it is not that they understand the facts. They're going to make a change. So that is a misperception about influence. True? Yeah. And Ed, I so agree with you that the talented, successful salespeople who say that are doing something very different. But how I interpret their statement is that the other person feels that all they have done is state the facts and let them make their own rational decision. We like to feel that that's how people are influencing us,

Starting point is 00:52:05 even though that's not how we're actually influenced. Now, is there any technique to that? That's an interesting point. Is there a technique to that to where if you are communicating with somebody that they feel they have to have the need to understand the facts so that you're providing that like in a fact sandwich, so to speak? It's nothing I had written down here. to ask you, but I'm curious if there's a technique involved with that. The most important thing when we're distinguishing emotional kinds of responses, gut checks, things like that from information processing of facts is that the facts happens second.

Starting point is 00:52:39 Okay. The emotional stuff happens first. We actually have to like each other. If you want to persuade me of something, I have to like you before I'm even going to pay attention to your rational argument. And if you're going to try to persuade you. me to say, get a product or a service, you have to appeal to my visceral emotional preferences to be curious to hear why I might want to buy this product or service. And then when you're

Starting point is 00:53:08 giving me the facts, it's a completely different experience because I'm listening to those facts to try to support my hypothesis. This is a thing I should get. So they're making the decision emotionally and rationalizing it logically with facts. Yes. Emotionally first, rationally second. And then so if they have to like us, that's kind of called building rapport,

Starting point is 00:53:29 so to speak. And you cover a topic in the book on, and it's a word I use all the time that I've not tangibly been able to describe, but I use often with people as I'll say, you know, she's charismatic. She's got charisma. Now, I guess when I say that,

Starting point is 00:53:45 it must mean to some extent that like, I like her or I like him, but you talk about charisma in the book. And I've always thought maybe this can't be taught. You know, maybe this is just one of these inherited. And I know better than that. But when I, you see a really charismatic, I've been fortunate enough doing the show and, you know, in my life. And now that's a charismatic person.

Starting point is 00:54:06 And they haven't. And you have that too, Ed. Don't be shy. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. But there's this, there's almost a correlation between one's charismatic abilities and their influential abilities a lot of the times. So how teach us about charisma. Let's do that. Yeah. Yeah. When I just ask people what is the number one influence skill you would like to master?

Starting point is 00:54:30 And I don't even give them options. The most common answer is charisma. So people really badly want to be more charismatic. But then when I say, okay, what is that? Like, well, it's, you know, people pay attention to you. Okay. But why? You can't be somebody like, running through the office in your underwear that's not charismatic even though people pay attention to you but so what i do academic research i'm putting it to the side because the leading model is a seven factor model that you it's not something you can take action on right you can't do seven things at once what i do is organically figure out with groups of people what is it that makes individuals charismatic So I'll ask someone, and you've read this chapter, Ed, so it'll, it's not a new thought or experience,

Starting point is 00:55:23 but I am curious who in your life, out of all these charismatic people, just pops into your head as someone who represents a charismatic individual? Barack Obama in person. President Obama, by the way, two or three of the presidents that I've met. Now, maybe their stature predisposed me to think that about them. their position, but I did sense a certain energy connection with them, the first person that came to mind. Yeah. And power can influence this also. And so when you meet Barack Obama, what, how would you describe, say, three traits if you can or three behaviors that he does that has you feel that he's charismatic? Deep listening, which you talk about in the book,

Starting point is 00:56:11 unbelievable listening almost makes you have the, I'd like to think that I work on this too, that they make you feel as if you're the only person that matters in that moment and that you're valued and that you're important. I think that that's a part of it. And I think a tremendous air of certainty or presence, confidence about what it is they're communicating about. They truly believe. I often say sometimes that I think, I don't know that everybody always has to believe what you're saying, but they have to believe you believe what you're saying. be influential. And I feel like those are two of the characteristics when I think of leaders that I've been around and he would be one of them. Yeah. So I feel like this is kind of cheating because we

Starting point is 00:56:50 sort of teed up because you've read this chapter. But this is also listeners will know just very directly, probably true of someone like Obama. Having the ability to connect and display confidence are the two key factors for being a charismatic person. And we can do both of those by focusing our attention on the other person instead of on ourselves. And that gives them the feeling of being the only person in the room is that deep listening and connection. And this is the opposite of what a lot of people just initially think of charisma as being, because we think of people being charismatic when they're performing or when they're speaking. But it comes through in that connection when they're listening.

Starting point is 00:57:41 So you're so right. And by the way, just so we're on balance, I can hear all the right wing people listening this rolling their eyes. And if I say this guy's name the left will. But I would also say it in a completely different way. President George W. Bush was another person that came to my mind, who's obviously not in the same party as President Obama, but in a very different way. His way was more of a kind, smiling listening. There was an active listening. I think President Obama's listening is just a focus on. you and this eye contact level. President Bush did it differently, much more with like a physical touch, acknowledging what you've said and a kind of a smirk and a smile like he likes what I'm saying was being expressed on his face. And I think a confident person, I feel like one of the highest indicators of one's personal self-confidence is they're willing to listen intently, not thinking about my reply, not thinking about what I'm going to say yes, not thinking about what you think about me, but I'm just with you in this moment. And so I want to ask you about kind of a little deeper dive on this, because I think this is just, go ahead. Can I share one thing? Ed,

Starting point is 00:58:48 it's funny just while we're on presidents. And yes, I agree with you about all of that. Leaders, especially what, like, you can't get to be the leader of the United States without being very charismatic, right? And this even extends to Jimmy Carter, who might be labeled by some people as the least charismatic president ever. When I got to meet Jimmy Carter, we're getting a picture, and he puts his arm around my waist, and he says something kind, literally my vision clouded over because I was so starstruck by the charisma of this man who was in his 80s at this point in time. For all leaders, not just presidents, being charismatic, being perceived as charismatic will help you be perceived as a better leader, not just as a more charismatic person. But I find

Starting point is 00:59:36 that really interesting. It's really true. And actually, it's about changing people's minds, too. I've not met President Trump for a gun. We're going politics here. It's very weird. But just to give you an example, I've not met him. But I have spoken to him. And I've had different people that really know him very well. And I've had a lot of people of mine that are very left-leaning, say, I met him and I don't like him at all. But man, did I like him when I met him because he had this charisma in person? And so there's a quality. And I think a lot of it is this confidence and this certainty. Do you agree that to some extent, once there's report, So which would you use the term earlier that someone needs to kind of like you, right?

Starting point is 01:00:12 But once there's rapport, is there an element that the more certain person, if there is a connection emotionally, will influence the less certain person simply because of the overwhelming belief they have and what it is they're communicating. That absolutely can happen. And you're reminding me of something that my coach used to do. So my coach, Mandy, used to be one of the top sales trainers for Tony Robbins, and that was how we connected. And Mandy, in her closing pitch, used to say, I definitely, definitely, definitely know. And she would say it three times to close a deal. So if someone

Starting point is 01:00:51 is open-minded to considering your opinion, then absolutely your certainty can help you close the deal. If someone is not open-minded to listening to you, and that's why you said, if you have a poor, right? But like right now across the political divide that we have, that's a bigger chasm than ever, being absolutely certain on one side and trying to persuade someone on the other side, your certainty is not helping you. It's harming you. And I think the reason that politics is so divisive now is to your point. And I didn't know we're going to go on this drill, but I think it's worth saying. When I brought up one president's name, that gave an emotional reaction to everybody here. Then when I brought up the other one, it gave one to everyone else. And the reason these political

Starting point is 01:01:32 people are so smart is they know that if they can keep us from not like, that we sort of will stay in our camps. And so it's really brilliant to keep people not to be able to change behavior. Let's make us all not like each other because the fundamental principle of your work, which is so true, well, one of them is we have to like each other. We have to have an emotional connection in order to be open to these other techniques. So in politics, if you can just keep us all from not liking each other, then there's not an influence issue going to happen with you losing someone who's in your camp.

Starting point is 01:02:06 Isn't that true? You just gave me shivers because I've never thought of this being a national or global campaign to keep us from liking each other. And I'm going to be thinking about that for the next month. Thank you. And something that you said about Trump really struck me, which is that people were surprised. And I've heard this said about George W. Bush as well. So I'm liberal as are lots of people at Yale, right? And I've heard so many people say George W. Bush went to Yale.

Starting point is 01:02:33 So many people say, when I met him, I just couldn't help liking him. And listeners, I want you to actually not just hear that about these two presidents, but internalize that about yourself. This is a human phenomenon that we like each other more than we expect when we're interacting in person. When you are asking somebody for something, when you're asking somebody for help, making an in-person request, everybody on earth, on average, is two or three times more likely to say yes. then you expect that they will be.

Starting point is 01:03:08 And a big part of that is that you underestimate how much they like you. You're so honest. I watch people all the time. By the way, I think influence, people ask me, what would you give your children? For me, the first thing is I want them to be moral and ethical and have our faith or their version of faith. I want them to have that.

Starting point is 01:03:23 I then would want them to be somebody who can be influential. Because under influential requires confidence, requires an ability to communicate. I think it's the most important skill that you can give somebody. And do your point about this is something everyone just slow down because you may think, well, okay, I get this. How often do you go in when you're trying to get your kids to do something or you're trying to get someone in business to do something or even yourself and not slow down first and make sure there's an emotional connection first where we're here? When I play golf, for example, Zoe, one of my favorite things that happens is I'll play golf with someone I've never met before. And then when we're done the next day or two, they'll tell a mutual friend of ours, go, wow, I really like Dad so much.

Starting point is 01:04:03 what a great guy, you know. And then they'll, this is really before my kind of public persona, but then they'd say, what does he do? Because we spent the whole four or five hours on the golf course talking about them because people like people who like them. And so I spend my time to, I already know about me. I'm not even interested in me. I already know everything I know and think.

Starting point is 01:04:23 So I'm so interested in what other people think. And the reason I make this point is one of the other misconceptions you say, and I want everybody to get this is one major, it's number nine, actually. is you say people, people misconceived, they say to themselves, people don't listen to people like you, like me. People won't listen to someone like me. And I want you to dispel that misconception for everyone. I think if I had followers or I had money or I had success or I had, I had something I'm lacking, then they'd listen. But people like me, people don't listen to us. And you dispel that as a misconception. Yeah. This is such a deep thing for so many of us based on these factors that you mentioned,

Starting point is 01:05:03 based on our race, our income, our age, our education, what we look like, all of these things. And the truth is, first of all, people listen to us better when we listen to them better. And they listen to us more when we put our voice out there in a confident and connected way. What happens when we feel that we don't belong and people aren't going to listen to us that's really insidious, is we can speak in a way that makes it hard to listen to. I write in the charisma chapter actually about diminishes. Women in particular do this a lot, but it's a matter of feeling like you're less powerful or lower status.

Starting point is 01:05:49 So it happens in all kinds of other situations that men do it. We'll say, I was just wondering, so I could be wrong, but as soon as you start your communication that way, it's easy for the other person to tune out, and then you feel like no one listens to you. I also think you're buying here. I think the mind of the listener goes, yeah, you could be wrong. Those are actually real words to somebody. And it's a terrible premise to begin a sentence with or to begin an entire persuasive message

Starting point is 01:06:19 was like, could be wrong, or I don't mean to bother you or these other things that you say to minimize yourself. Right. Because then what they hear is like, oh, yeah, you actually are bothering me. Correct. And you're taking more time than if you're. you just said the thing that you don't want to bother me about. It's interesting you say that because one of the other things I really believe about people

Starting point is 01:06:36 who can influence is they learn to say things in more concise ways with fewer words. Typically, when you're lacking confidence in your belief system, you feel like you need to say more to persuade. Actually, liars do this too. Lliers will say more and more, don't they? They say more and more because they know what they're saying isn't true. So they add more and more and more to it. And so one display of confidence is just fewer words.

Starting point is 01:07:01 with more certainty. That was a great conversation. Be sure to follow the Edmilet show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. I get a lot of this from you, like overcoming the fears, the insecurities, the dreaming. This stuff is what excites me. But a lot of people also want to learn how to make a lot of money. Or they want to learn how to build their business or they want to learn how to accelerate the growth financially. They want to get out of a scarcity mindset into an abundance mindset. Yeah. Financially.

Starting point is 01:07:32 What would you say if you could only share three things that you could do or if you could take away everything else and you can only do three things to build a business or generate wealth? Okay. You had to strip away all the other skills or assets that you had, but these three things you could only do to get you as much as you possibly wanted. What would that be for you? Okay.

Starting point is 01:07:54 The first thing is that you have to identify what you're great at doing and stop trying to play life at the things that you're mediocre at doing. So I know what I'm good at doing. And there's a very limited group so it made it easy to pick from. It's not like I had 80 things. I'm good at like really two things. I've made hundreds of millions of dollars with these two things. And ironically, let me say this to you also. That thing you're great at may have been born out of your biggest pain. Absolutely. So, and this is a gift that you have as well. But one of my major gifts is my ability to read people and to be present with them. Why? I had an alcoholic dad. When he would come through that front door I had three little sisters and a mom and this five-year-old

Starting point is 01:08:31 little boy would have to look up at his hero is he drunk or sober is he walking is he slurring is this or is it tied correctly or is it loose how's he moving how's he talking and if it was drunk dad I need to get my sisters upstairs and mom should go take a shower if it was sober dad we're great but I would have to read this man and so that allowed me to learn to be present it's a terrible way to learn to do it but I did then at the second skill would kick in I can talk I would grab his hand and my sisters go upstairs and say daddy I hit a home run in the baseball game today I got a 90 on my spelling test how was your day what did you do and I would talk and change his state

Starting point is 01:09:08 and as I grew up those two gifts have made me a lot of money in business my ability to be present and listen my ability to talk so what are your gifts what are two or three it could be your nurturing skills your intellect your problem solving your intensity your passion your calmness your peace your humor whatever it is the second thing that I would say is that you have to get into the business of truly caring about people. I know that sounds real generic, but people matter, things don't. When I worked at the orphanage, and I walked into the orphanage that changed my life, and I know you know that story. My little boys were 8 to 10 years old.

Starting point is 01:09:43 Here's what they wanted for me. I want everyone to hear this very carefully, get nothing else out of the show than this, if you only get one thing. These boys needed someone to love them, care about them. Here's a big one. Almost no one does for another human being. Believe in them. And they just show them how to do better.

Starting point is 01:09:58 Yeah. We say it again. Love, care, believe, and show them how to do better. When I left the orphanage and went into business, I figured out they weren't unique. Every human. Ed, how do you coach the top politicians or CEOs? Love them? Care about them?

Starting point is 01:10:12 Believe in them? And then show them how to do a little bit better at whatever it is. So that's number two. And then the third thing is you have to become obsessed. You have to become obsessed. This has to become an obsession of yours. You know, our obsessions become our possessions. And the truth of the matter is that most of you don't understand the effort, the time, the focus, the obsessiveness that's required to do something great with your life.

Starting point is 01:10:33 You want to do something great and you better be great at it. Greatness rises. So if you can get really good at those three things, listen, why are you so good at this? You're great at this. The whole idea of greatness is the concept of the show. But you have to get great and you have to be intentional and you have to be obsessed. And if people knew behind the scenes, this thing's very easy, but I know your schedule. I know what you've put into this. I know what the time is.

Starting point is 01:10:57 I know what the relentless pace is. I know what the focus is. And how much you think about it. I know this has to be something that's just infectious. And when people get around you that emanates and there's an energy and there's like, this person's just going to will this to happen. And when you have that, you have to be cognizant of your energy. You're always making people feel something. So take control of what they're feeling.

Starting point is 01:11:15 And so I think just most people dramatically underestimate the amount of obsessive, crazy, relentless focus it takes to be great at something. it takes to be great at something. And then they go, well, I don't want to be that out of balance or control. Then you don't want to be great. Because there's going to be a period of your life, not out of balance, but where some things take priorities over others. That's not a lack of balance. Nothing's like this all of the time.

Starting point is 01:11:38 And by the way, the hardest working you've ever been, the most crazy focus you've ever been, was the happiest you've ever been in your life. You go back well when I was studying for my master's degree, whatever, so you're like, weren't you crazy focus? You were busy all the time. If you're a mother and you're carrying this, baby and this hardest thing you've ever

Starting point is 01:11:54 do is carry this baby. Plus you had a job and you're bringing this person on. It's the happiest times of your life. Or when you're the most you feel out of control. You're the most obsessed is when you're the happiest. It's this just flawed belief that if I do nothing, if I just have, ah,

Starting point is 01:12:11 I'm going to be super happy. There's plenty of Oz. I meditate every morning. I pray every morning. It's what gives me the energy and clarity of mind to do something great. But this notion that that brings bliss, that nothingness doing nothing. No expansion of your being. No contribution is going to make you happy. This is a flawed belief. You're literally moving from the very things that will make you happy. This notion

Starting point is 01:12:35 that you're not growing and expanding, you not contributing, you not evolving. Your spirit was born. All the cells in your body regenerate themselves. Your digestive tract is brand new every six months to a year. Your lung tissue regenerates it. Your skeletal system regenerates about every six to eight years. Like, you're constantly being reborn all the time, internally. So externally, and in your heart and your soul and your spirit and your brain, you should be as well. These are the things that make us happy, not just doing nothing. Right. Having a purpose, having a mission and intention. It's what gets you up. It's what you were born for. That mission, by the way, maybe to serve other people and to bring peace to them. Great, but have something. Very short

Starting point is 01:13:17 intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. Welcome back to the show, everybody. So I wanted to have this man on for a couple years. I'm a really big fan of his work, not just from the negotiation standpoint, but from a communication standpoint. And he spent 24 years in the FBI crisis negotiation unit. He's done over 150 different international hostage type negotiations. I think he's probably the foremost expert on the planet in communication, not just negotiation. His work is unique. he obviously brings an experience and a perspective that really nobody else on the planet has

Starting point is 01:13:55 based on what I just told you. And I'm just a big fan of his work. So by the way, it got a book, too. It's been out for a while, but I read it when it came out called Never Split the Difference. I highly recommend you guys all get that. We're going to break that stuff down today with Chris Voss. So Chris, welcome to the show, finally. Thanks, Ed.

Starting point is 01:14:11 Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. The thing I've learned most from your work, though, and this is where I want to pull apart. So everybody, forget negotiation. This is just life skills right here. And I think I have been by and large terrible at this most of my life what I'm about to ask you about. And I think I'm an assertive, number one, probably. And although I don't have a lot of abilities, I really don't.

Starting point is 01:14:32 One of them is the ability to speak and to communicate. And I think oftentimes I rely on that as opposed to what I've really worked on the last decade is my listening skills. And I have found, like, I'll do a retreat with a bunch of people that will come in, for example, for business, right? And I'll talk for three days, giving the best information, engage them, train them up, motivate them, inspire them. And they leave and I think they think it's good. This is back in the day. And then another buddy in mine would come in, he's not even really that prepared. They sit around and BS for three days and they ask them a bunch of questions. They all talk and they leave. And it gets back to me. That was the greatest retreat they've ever been to in their lives.

Starting point is 01:15:11 And it felt to me like it's probably because they were listened to more. So it's just a concept as a negotiator, as a communicator, as a man, as a human, how important is active listening and listening in general to persuasion and connection with people? Because I think it's a lost art. It's an advanced skill. And in many cases, like it's an assertive, and you sound very much like an assertive,

Starting point is 01:15:37 your description for a variety of reasons. Assertives are time is money, people. And so if you're given instructions, like, I'm going to jam, you know, time is money, every moment, no moment can be wasted. I'm going to download as much value as I possibly can. And I'm not going to waste a moment, not giving these people value for each and every minute they're here.

Starting point is 01:15:59 And so that becomes a bit of a deluge to start with. And it's hard to keep up with. It's everybody on my team, we've got that problem in our instruction. We're so want to give you nothing but valuable content. And so then listening, like the tiniest little things, how much time do you have for somebody who's not listening to you? Like zero. And you're going to notice it right away.

Starting point is 01:16:27 And so in these tiny moments, being listened to actually increases analysis on both sides. It gives people an opportunity to do a little bit more processing. And so there's a whole variety of subtle nuances, invisible nuances, that affect proactive, proactive, not just active. proactive listening starts to kick into gear. And so I'll get, it seems less efficient. And then suddenly you're in a, you've accelerated 15 steps.

Starting point is 01:17:00 You don't even know how to happen. And that's, you know, and to me, and it's one of the, I possess that's the magic. I know the magic's coming by just these subtle little tweaks. So. What a couple of tweaks you use? What do you, there's some active listening.

Starting point is 01:17:17 skills you'll use to let someone know you are, right? So it's one thing to be listening. It's another thing for them to get the message and feeling that you're listening as well, right? Well, the secret easiest one, simplest, is the mirror, repeating the last one or three words of what somebody has just said. And this is the best one to open up your teenager. Like there have been so many moms who suddenly open up their daughters. Because, you know, the kid comes home from school, how was your day? Fine. What'd you do? I don't remember. You didn't indicate to them that you even listened to the answer to the first question. So you say, how was your day? They go, fine. The parents' response should be, fine, which is,

Starting point is 01:18:07 even though you only gave me one word, I just proved that I listened to. Now, that tiny moment tends to open people up very quickly. Because normally you've got a list of questions, billions, and you're checking them off the list. Mom, dad, I'm going to say, how was your day? What did you do? Boom, boom. You know, you feel like your intention to do a job as a parent

Starting point is 01:18:33 to display interest is there. Yes, it is. But your method was poor because by following up immediately with your next question, you made them think you weren't listening to the first answer. And so the mirror is like the first way to get your foot in the door to open the communication up. Yeah, this is why you should be following Chris's work, why you should bring him in to speak, why you should get never split the difference. That alone is simple.

Starting point is 01:19:02 And I don't do it. I don't do it. Here's what I do do. That's I just learned from you recently. I was in, I am in the middle of a rather. intense negotiation on something right now. And I allowed it to escalate to where it got heated. And the advantage to that, though, is I got to use one of your techniques.

Starting point is 01:19:21 And I want everyone to have you elaborate on this because I think the foundation of what I've learned is just allowing someone to feel heard or be heard is so critical. We'll talk about that in the negotiations hostage-wise next, but I want to ask you this. So anyway, it got elevated. This was just like a week ago, even though I learned this from you a little while ago. and the guy said something to me about what he wouldn't do and then sort of a statement about me that wasn't flattering. And the normal me would have been just to annihilate him, right, verbally, which would have

Starting point is 01:19:57 made me feel good in the moment and gotten us further away. And I'm not kidding you, I was sitting about 30 feet from where I am right now. And I knew I was having you on the show in a few weeks. And so I was even more familiar through work. And I actually said to him, I said, I won't say his name. I said to him, I said, listen, you must have a great reason for feeling that way and saying that. What is it? And he just opened up.

Starting point is 01:20:20 And it allowed him to talk. And basically what it did is it bought me time to think about other things. But it also, I got so much more information in the next seven minutes from him than I'd gotten in three, two hour full sessions previously. And we connected pretty deeply during that moment. So can you talk about the question to ask when someone says that? Because I probably phrased it wrong and why it matters so much. Yeah, that is like the universal magic label. Like no matter, somebody's arguing with you, somebody's agreeing with you.

Starting point is 01:20:54 Like there's never going to be an instance when you can't say it. You know, you said you must have a great reason for saying that. You know, a version of that is it seems like you have a reason for saying that. Seems like you have a reason for doing it. Like somebody just calls you the worst name. they could possibly call you. Seems like you got a great reason for saying. And they open up.

Starting point is 01:21:14 Somebody completely agrees with what you just said. Seems like you got a great reason for saying. And they open up. Like that is. Like if I could teach people just that one label and say, here's what I want you to do for the rest of today. Nothing else comes out of your mouth. Just today.

Starting point is 01:21:32 Just today. It seems like you got a great reason for saying that. You start that tomorrow morning for a rest of. saying at the end of the day, you've got to say it 15 times, post on my Instagram what happened. At the FBI negotiate. Tell me what kind of day you had. I guarantee you you're going to have a cooler day than you ever could have imagined. And first of all, well done.

Starting point is 01:21:58 And that's a great example. And it bought you time. You know, and it stopped you from, you know, counter launching your nuclear missiles. Mutually assured destruction, right? You're right. You're right. Can I tell you the other thing it did? It not only connected us.

Starting point is 01:22:14 I'm working on some content I'm creating right now that I just stumbled into in my life the last five years where I talk about changing the lens in your life when you're engaging with people of switching it. Because we all see them and our relationship with them through our lens, our filter, our lens. And so I'm creating work right now that talks about creating an ability just to be a better human about switch the lens. and have your mom see you through how your mom sees you. You know, how does she react to you the last, and change the lens is the bottom line. And what it actually did in that moment for me, so so angry,

Starting point is 01:22:49 is it changed the lens and I actually saw me from him. And when I started to see what he sees in me, it helped me better understand his position, but also how to respond and react and connect with him, to be honest with you. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed My Lett show

Starting point is 01:23:07 on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. Welcome back to the show, everybody. I have a man here who's become such a dear friend of mine and a trusted advisor. I've only had one other person on the show three times. So you are now breaking a record, brother. You are a ratings machine.

Starting point is 01:23:27 But more importantly, you bring such value every time you're here. And when we're done talking, every single time we've done this, I go, oh, my gosh, this is going to get millions of downloads. made me better. And every time I'm with you, I feel better. I smile more. I feel better about myself and I learn things about how to win, how to succeed, how to persevere. So, Dean Graciosi, welcome back to the show, my brother. So good to be here. And I have to tell you, you're the best, you're the most gracious host ever. And to this day, still, our two podcasts, every day, I send you some of them. Every day, I'm like, best podcast ever, best, and I've been on a lot.

Starting point is 01:24:03 And it's because you're so gracious, because you care so much. And the reason, people are following you and listening and I'm and I know I'm speaking for the people listening is because they know you care. Thank you. They know that you have me here for a third time, not for any other reason, except you think it will bring more value. And I hope I don't let everybody down and you've got a lot of options. You're here with us.

Starting point is 01:24:22 It'll bring more value to them. And that's why I love your success. I love how your book is crushing it. Thank you. The world needs more, Ed. So you've been honest on my show before. And by the way, this is completely correlated to everything we said. Because you said on the show before in the past, hey, man.

Starting point is 01:24:37 First time around, probably didn't have that thing wired the right way. At some point, I knew I wasn't probably with the right person for me. Wonderful person, but not right person for me. I wasn't a world-class husband. Yep. You've said this before. And you are a world-class husband to Lisa. It's also a true story.

Starting point is 01:24:53 It is. When I think of you, and by the way, you're easily one of the most brilliant business minds I've ever met. You are probably the best marketing mind I know. And you're a very diverse man between your understanding of real estate. human dynamics, interpersonal relationships, energy, influence, I mean, all the different business markets that you're in. You're a very unique man. And I, you know, I hold you in the highest regard.

Starting point is 01:25:17 You're one of the few people on the earth that I call for counsel in certain areas. So obviously... Same to you, brother. Thank you. And of all that, I don't admire you anywhere nearly as much for those things as I do for the kind of husband and father that you are. And I think one of the, I think you show me the quality of your relationships. I think Tony was the first to say that.

Starting point is 01:25:37 the quality of your life. You have such a massive high quality of life. And I believe that's because of your relationship with Lisa and your children. Why is it so good? In other words, what's been the key from you going to be in a not very good husband the first time around to like if I think of the list of the best husbands I know that have the best real intimate, loving, real real, not perfect relationships with people. I don't know that you don't occur first on my list. You know, maybe there's two or three people that all come up at the same. same time, but you come up on that list. What's been the key for that and how important is it to your outward success in business? Because there's a correlation from when you met her to millions and millions

Starting point is 01:26:17 more dollars in your bank account too. It is. And I have to say thank you for saying that. And you're, you're so kind, Ed. It's why your podcast does so great to you truly serve from your heart. And thank you for the kind words. My wife's going to listen to this podcast and smile from year to years. She loves you, brother. She's, she's binging on your podcast right now. I'll tell you, first First thing I'll share, just like a business, is if you have the nerve to recognize that the reason your business might not have worked or your marriage might not have worked or your relationship might not work, if you have the self-awareness and the nerve to look in the mirror and say it was probably you, even if it wasn't all you, but if you have the nerve to say that, and I remember going through divorce and freaking out because, and I won't go deep on this because I think I shared it on previous one, but I was freaking out before my kids because I was a child of divorce and I didn't want them to feel. You know, you. You know, you get it, right? Totally. So I was freaking out about that.

Starting point is 01:27:11 And then I remember thinking to myself, I wrote down a list of what was unacceptable in a new relationship, what could not be and what could be. And on my could list, Ed, was I need someone that loves a crazy entrepreneur that's into health, that's into personal growth, someone who will love my children as if they're their own. That's a task for a step person, step parent, right? And I wrote down this long list of all the things that were a must. And something hit me in that list and I'm like, damn, I have nerve to ask for that. Right, right. And in a moment, I recognized that for me to attract that, I had to become a better man. It had nothing to do with finding the perfect woman.

Starting point is 01:27:55 I had to be the better man to attract that type of woman. And I worked on me. I got a love coach. I unlocked the, you know, holding back. the full extent of love and all the things we could share. But here's what I would say when it comes to relationships. Just this, you know, advice only from a guy that knows he messed up in the past, but I am in the greatest relationship in my life,

Starting point is 01:28:17 is imagine never keeping, a couple of things that came out of what I realized. Imagine never keeping score in a relationship. Imagine having the nerve and the confidence to just go, I'm going to be the best version of me and I hope I get it back. And not say, you know, I've been, I've been doing, I watch relationships unravel when someone says, the husband says, I work my tail off, I provide for her. She doesn't have to worry about anything.

Starting point is 01:28:42 She doesn't have to pay the bill. She has someone to clean her house. She does all this. And I come home and she's, you know, no dinner. Keeping score. Right? You're keeping score. And when you start keeping score, as soon as you start keeping score and it's not even,

Starting point is 01:28:56 how do you go to bed that night and be intimate? How do you have passionate connection if you're keeping score and thinking, I'm doing more than her or I'm taking care of the house. He has no idea what it's like to juggle two kids and take care of all this stuff. And he's out flying around, having fun, do it. You know, he's working, but at least he gets to be out. I'm stuck in the house. Man, there's the intimacy's gone.

Starting point is 01:29:18 Right? And then once the intimacy's gone, then people start thinking, man, someone else would love the way I work. Someone else is the way I take care of things, right? So one is not keeping score. Here's the toughest one. That's big. Here's the toughest one.

Starting point is 01:29:30 Imagine. I know this is going to sound crazy. And some of you're going to be like, yeah, whatever, dreamer. imagine feeling love when you give it rather than when you receive it. I fell in love with making my wife feel loved. I love for that woman to look at me and she, like, there's five people in the room and she looks over and I'm staring at her. Like she's, like I just saw her for the first time and she catches me and I watch her flage. We've been together five and a half years.

Starting point is 01:29:55 I could stare at my wife when she doesn't realize it. And if she catches me, her cheeks will get red. Like she gets nervous even thin. And she's like, like, what are you looking at? What do you look at? And she'll come over. She's like, you, right? I found, it took me years.

Starting point is 01:30:07 I found a way to feel love when I make her feel loved. So I don't need her to love me back, but here's the thing. Right. Because I don't keep score, my wife tries to outdo me because I feel love when I give her love. She tries to give me more love, right? And I know maybe that takes the right partner and you might be thinking yourself, yeah, Dean, you found the right partner. I would say I have an amazing woman, but I also know that I did all the opposite. in the previous one.

Starting point is 01:30:35 And this is, I'm going to steal this from Tony. One of the best advice I ever heard was, imagine if you treated the end of relationship like the beginning, would there actually be an end? You remember in the beginning of a relationship, you're like, everything's bliss, and you're all in, and you're listening eye contact, and you wouldn't dare look at your phone at dinner,

Starting point is 01:30:53 and now you're three years in, and at dinner she wants to tell you about what happened with the kids today, and you're like, yeah, let me just, what was that? Hold on, babe, let me just look at my phone one second. Would you have ever done that in the first week of your relationship or on a first date. And that just, that hit me. And people a lot of times will ask me is like, I don't know where my relationship is.

Starting point is 01:31:09 I'm like, what if for the next 90 days you just went all in and pretended like you guys just met and you were dating again? To the end of 90 days, you might have a completely different situation. That's so good. Yeah. That's so good. You're so good. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:31:24 Is that fed your business life having that part of it? Not even a question. Like the funny part is so many people say to me, what happened to you like four years ago? Man, you just got more dynamic. you're more confident on stage. It was definitely that because the last thing I'll say is on this is I've had more success

Starting point is 01:31:41 than I could have ever dreamed possible a good zillion times more than what my dreams were. I have two, I'm now three and a fourth on the way but I had two amazing children that were just humble and sweet and kind. And my business is thriving and good friends but I didn't have love in my life

Starting point is 01:31:59 and I didn't have connection and I wasn't a good husband, right? Because I wasn't happy. and I probably, when you're incongruent, when not all things in your life are lined up, I never could have understood the power that while I was in it. I just said, no, I should be happy. No, my relationship isn't great, but we co-parent good,

Starting point is 01:32:15 and we got great kids, and the business is good, and we got the great house. I just wasn't in alignment, Ed. I was kind of living a lie. And when I finally shed that, and now I get to be the man, like, and I know you know me, but, man, Imagine the wish that if anybody put a hidden camera on you for a week.

Starting point is 01:32:33 And then your wife, your friends, and the world could watch it and go, wow, same guy on camera, same guy on a podcast, same guy when no one was watching. That congruency has taken the restrictions off. My business has doubled. My life is double. My happiness is doubled. I've attracted dear people in my life like you and other people because I think that I just get to be me at all times. Beautiful, brother. Gosh, it's so good.

THE ED MYLETT SHOW - How to Make Anyone Instantly Like You (Without Saying a Word) | Ed Mylett

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