THE ED MYLETT SHOW - How to Work with Anyone Even the Difficult Ones with Ryan Leak

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

What If Failing Was the Best Thing That Could Happen to You? In this powerful conversation with Ryan Leak, we dive into one of the most misunderstood truths about success: failure isn’t the end—it’s the beginning. Ryan is a best-selling author, speaker, and executive coach who’s made a career out of helping people reframe failure as the very path to greatness. And in this episode, he breaks down why most of us are playing it too safe, avoiding the very thing that could unlock our next level. Ryan opens up about his own journey, including the doubts and fears he had to walk through to get where he is today. We talk about what it feels like to take risks when everyone’s watching, how to silence the inner critic that says you’re not enough, and why your willingness to fail may be the single most important indicator of your future success. What I love about Ryan is that he doesn’t just talk theory—he lives this stuff. He shares how writing books, building a business, and coaching leaders all started with moments where failure seemed inevitable. And yet, by leaning in instead of running away, he discovered opportunities that never would’ve shown up otherwise. If you’ve been holding back, waiting until you feel “ready,” or letting fear of failure keep you small, this episode will set you free. Ryan’s wisdom will challenge the way you see setbacks, redefine what winning really looks like, and remind you that courage always comes before confidence. Key Takeaways: Why failure is often the best teacher for growth and innovation How to quiet the inner critic and reframe self-doubt The difference between failing and being a failure Why confidence is a result of courage, not a prerequisite for it Practical steps to start taking bigger risks without being paralyzed by fear You don’t need to wait until you’re fearless to take action. The truth is, the future belongs to those willing to fail forward. Listen in—you’ll never look at failure the same way again.   👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈   → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ←  ➡️ INSTAGRAM   ➡️FACEBOOK   ➡️ LINKEDIN   ➡️ X   ➡️ WEBSITE  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the Admiral Show. Welcome back to the show, everybody. Okay, interesting anecdote. A friend of ours, a mutual friend of my guest today said, hey, I've got Ryan Leak that wants to come on your show. Puts us on a group text. I said, Ryan, I know who you are. Let's do an interview. This friend is Rory Vaden.

Then he sends me the book. And it's not the same Ryan Leak after I agreed to do the interview. But then I read the book. I'm open. I read the book. I go, oh, no, no, no. I definitely want this guy on the show. So actually, the content of your work is so good.

I'm like, oh, no, this needs to be discussed because it's a topic, which we're going to talk about next, that's underdisscussed and is a massive issue in people's lives so they don't know how to navigate it. So this Ryan Leak, no offense to the other one, my upgraded guest today, has a book called How to Work with Complicated People. And I got to tell you something. I want to know a lot of this stuff. So I read the book from the cover to the end of it. Wow. Every word of it took me three days. Thank you.

And it really changed my life. He's worked with everybody from the NFL, you guys, Google, Microsoft. And so once I figured out who this Ryan Leak was, I told him also off camera, everybody I know that knows him raves about him and tells me this is going to be an incredible conversation today. So the real Ryan Leak, welcome to the show. Thanks, it is a pleasure to be here. It's so good to have you. So this is perfect segue since I blew it. one of the quotes from the book, I'm like, this will be perfect, is you're somebody's idiot.

And I'm like, I clearly represent that. But it's one of the principles of working with complicated people. So let's just start there because I'm a perfect description of somebody's idiot. So tell us about what that means. You know, it's this idea that we could live in a world where we think, man, this person's an idiot. And it's just like we have, but we're always somebody's person that is that person. And so anytime I tell people, hey, I'm working on a book called How to Work with Complicated People, they go. yeah, I need that book. And then I go, hey, spoiler alert, somebody needs that book for you.

And somebody needs that book for me. It's interesting. We hear this phrase a lot, toxic work environment, or I've got a toxic boss. The problem with that word is, no one admits that they are that. Right. You've never met someone to say, hey, man, I'm going through a lot in my life right now. And I'm toxic. Like people, people just don't admit that kind of thing. And so it's a word that it's like 72% of America would describe, work environment as toxic. Like, it's just thrown out there a lot. But nobody wants to admit that they're that. And so I think that idea that we're all somebody's idiot, it just postures us with a little bit of humility to say, hey, man, you know what? Maybe on the other side of me, it's a little bit more kind of. You know, I never thought about it that way. But when I read that in the book, I'm like, oh, I can definitely name several hundred people in my life after 54 years of like, that dude's an idiot. And by the way, there's some great videos that help me on social media where I say cavemen lived 300 years ago. I misspoke. So I'm literally 300 million

people's idiot most of the time. So that's just the way it goes. But also what I like about the book, everyone's lean in here is if you actually, and we're going to talk about this today, it's work, but it's also family too. It's basically just interpersonal relationships and how to navigate complicated. So if you go, I don't have a complicated work environment, but my spouse or my children or my mom is or my mother-in-law is or my father-in-law is, we got some stuff for you today. So is that what made you write the book as something in your own life or environment that happened? So I do about 120 events a year and I always do a pre-event call with every single client. And I ask the same questions.

Hey, what are the biggest challenges your people are facing right now? What we discovered was that most people's biggest hurdle to job satisfaction was not their job description. It was the people that they had to do the job with. So you actually can pull off a very difficult job with people you enjoy. versus a dream job with people you tolerate. And so we said, man, if we can help people figure out the people side of it, man, it'll make their job a whole lot better. Yeah.

You know what my issue was maybe still is a little bit, but I didn't realize it until after about 25 years of being in business. I liked people like me. And so if they weren't like me, like I, as a young guy, you know, overly competitive, incredibly intense, very verbal, very no nonsense. So if you didn't have that criteria, former athlete,

so if you didn't have that, you were an idiot. I'm using your word. I don't think I felt like that strong, but I certainly didn't think they were great workers. And then what I realized after some time was like, actually, I already have me.

So I don't really need that many more me's. I need people that have all the stuff I don't have. But is that part of our biases or this toxicity in this complicated environment as we seem to only feel have an affection or an affinity for people like us. Yeah.

I think we all desire sameness. We desire to have that tribe around us that think the same ways, that have all of the same values. But it's not until you have somebody on your team. It's a little bit different that sees the world from a little bit of a different perspective that we can sell to people that have a little bit of a different perspective. They're all bringing something to the table. Doesn't mean you just hire anybody.

Sure. Most people, they have to work with the people. Like, they don't get to choose unless you're the boss, unless you're the CEO. No. Most people are like, dude, I'm stuck with Jerry. So what am I going to do with Jerry? So we just try to help people where they're at and say, hey, if you can figure out how to work with this person and sees the world completely different than you, well, then maybe you could lead some people that are completely different than you. So you're practicing for your new job at your current job by developing some of these people skills. How do you do it? Give us a couple things. Well, one of the things I think you have to do is you have to remain curious. You have to remain curious. You have to go.

I mean, there's a way that I think work should be done. There's a pay. pace in which I have, my, I'm very fast pace, very high energy, very intense, like let's move. Well, when all of a sudden I started to realize, well, I got some people in my team that are a little bit slower. And I'm just like, hey, could you, could you pick up the pace? But then I realized I was actually making mistakes going so fast. Yeah, good point. And they were actually being very detail oriented. And so I found a blessing in their pace to be able to say, you know what, maybe maybe there's a balance here.

I need to be a little bit more considered of their pace versus my pace. I think having that posture of curiosity is very important. What about understanding? So this is conversations happening on a fascinating day for me. So I have multiple businesses. I guess the podcast is a business, right? But in between interviews, Stephen will tell you my producer, I had to go upstairs and take a call. I've had a very stressful morning dealing with a employee of mine in one of my businesses that I would say is a complicated person.

Sure. And in this particular person's case, whom I love, it is a him. But I have enough business, I don't know, no one will know what I'm talking about. It's a him. But about every three weeks or four weeks, I'm on an emotional roller coaster where this dude is on his way out. I mean, he's just, he's complicated. I also know he may have a proclivity to the melancholy side of life, if that makes you sense, the negative a little bit, right? The negative.

And so today I've been dealing with him. And it came to a head again. I'm going to quit. But okay, you're quitting out. And then now he's not. And so how do you deal or your perspective on just, and by the way, this could be family. So this could be business. Complicated people.

And also, I'll give you the double. And you know some of their patterns by now. Yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? Absolutely. Okay. Give us some of that. I think it's very important that you do two things.

One, I think we've lost the art of having difficult conversations. Our friend John Maxwell says it this way. we have to learn to disagree without disrespect. It's the art of just saying, hey, let's have this conversation. I think being able to go to somebody, family member, coworker, boss, and being able to say these words,

hey, I want to have a thriving relationship with you. I want this to work out. Sometimes what happens is we're almost dealing with the symptoms instead of the root issues. We're not actually talking. We're going, hey, could you rewrite that email? Hey, can you not do that on? on that project. It's like, wait, let's just, let's actually talk about the elephant in the room.

Let's actually have that direct, truthful conversation and say, hey, for us to have a thriving working relationship, here's what needs to change. Hey, here's the part that, what do you think I need to do for us to have a thriving relationship? So I'm coming into it with some humility. It's not all on you. You're not just the whole problem. But I'm going, what is it that you need from me for this to be a thriving relationship? And here's what I need from you. And if we can't meet in the middle, the key word on the book is strategies for effective collaboration with nearly anyone. Sometimes they're in the nearly. And sometimes they don't make the cut.

But I think we want to do everything in our part to say, hey, I did everything in my part to make this work. You know why that's brilliant? I kind of like almost grunted when he said it because what starts to happen when there's strife, correct me if you think I'm wrong. But we forget or aren't reminded of each other's intent. Intentions get loss in stress. And so what you just said that's so powerful there is to start out with, look, look, my intention, I want this to work out with the two of us. Absolutely. I want this to be thriving.

I want you to be happy. I did do that today with this person, so I feel good about it. Which is true. Yes. But I thought, I need to be the emotionally mature one to sort of rise above the emotion to some extent. Yes. You know the other truth with this person? I need them.

In other words, they are complicated, but they are uniquely gifted and talented. They are, the juice is worth the squeeze. In other words, there's a squeeze, but it's worth it. And so one of the things you say in the book, and this is true, even in friends, too, the avoidance of difficult conversations or the avoidance of having people like this in our business life is really to our detriment. Well, I think even in your specific situation, you've got two options. You have the options of having two headaches. You either have the headache of dealing with their personality.

Yes. Or you have the headache of retraining somebody to have all of their skill sets. So it's like, choose your headache. Mm-hmm. And you do have options on that. I think you exhaust the option of the personality to say, hey, I want to do everything in my power to work this out before I go choose that second headache. Yeah.

So, but it is a realization of saying, is there something that I can be doing to help you be more effective in this job, specifically with our relationship? You keep bringing this thing to the table and we're rehearsing the same old lines. And so at some point, it's just got to be different. But I think being willing to have that difficult conversation, and I love using the phrase, I could be wrong. Hey, I could be wrong, but this is this is what I see. And what you're saying is, yeah, I got a story in my head about you.

I really do. But I realize I can be wrong about that. Ryan, you're so brilliant. This is like serendipitous. I texted that to him before the call. You know, I could be wrong, but. And I actually just met it like, I really could be wrong. No, sure.

Like you just said. I love highly tactical podcasts. Like, that's a huge thing to start out a conversation. Somebody say, my intentions are blankety blank. 100%. Second tactic that I love, this understanding seek to be curious. The third tactic that I love is this idea of, you know, I could be wrong. Could be.

Some humility. Absolutely. What happens, I think, don't you with complicated people? or maybe we're the idiot, like you said, like there's just a, there's this posturing and flexing that goes on. Like at the end of the day, once they're gone or it's resolved, you're like, 74% of this was just posturing and flexing and I'm more important than you. Don't disrespect me. Like these just ridiculous notions that we do to one another as humans. Yeah. They're games. Aren't they? And I think at some point you stop playing the game. Yes. And you just start being a leader.

You just start being that colleague that just says, hey, I, again, I think there's something powerful about stating that intention at the beginning of a conversation. It changes the tone. It changes of the motives of the entire conversation. Hey, I really want this to work out. As soon as you say that, there's an immediate, okay, I can actually put my defense down because I actually want this to work out too. Now, if you don't want it to work out, well, then, well, now we know where we are. You're right.

I ask a lot of questions. You and I were talking about John Maxwell off camera and you brought him up here, mutual front of us. both of ours and I love him and we were together doing something and I said what's different what it's the 70 whatever John is 75 or 8 I said what's the difference of the 78 year old you and the 58 year old you in terms of being a leader yeah and he goes oh I know exactly what it is he said the difference is I don't have to be consistent in my thinking all the time anymore and I said what do you mean by that he goes I'm open to changing my mind yeah I'm more open to being wrong he said when I was in my 50s I thought if I didn't stick true to what I believed or thought about

something i was being an inconsistent thinker and he said now my tolerance for leaders who never say i'm sorry never change their mind with new information is very frustrating to me and so actually i i i really listen with people that i admire and so in this particular situation today i also said just for a tactic for everybody i want your feedback on it i said the other thing i want to do is i i want to apologize to you because consistently i'm doing something i mean where i am not giving you what you need to feel respected and appreciated. As it turns out, it wasn't me at all. It was someone else.

But the point is, I think there's also a power to just going, I'm going to be the more humble one, not the flexor, especially when you're in the position of authority already. You agree with that? Like just humility is such a, it pulls the oxygen or the heat out of the environment pretty quickly. No question about it, especially if you're in leadership, because there's an automatic intimidation factor that comes in whenever you're, especially. you're trying to have a difficult conversation with a difficult or complicated person.

In Chapter 8, we talk about all of the different directions of communication and leading and all. Can you do a little bit of that, too? Sure. So what can make a conversation complicated is the direction of the conversation, especially when you are having a conversation up. You're having the conversation upwards. There's this intimidation factor. When you're having the conversation down, well, there needs to be a high level of humility because, well, we've all had a boss at some point in our life and we just, what's the number one thing

that we would say in terms of the relationship that we had with that boss was that we did not feel like we could always be honest. Brilliant. You're right. We always felt, we had a thought and we go, yeah, yeah, I love it here. It's great. Yeah. No, man, and everything's awesome. We're like, well, everything can't be that awesome. And so you actually have to have a great deal of humility, more humility than they need to have to be able to lead them. them well and to actually get real and honest feedback to be able to say, man, like, there's an intimidation factor that just comes with the role that you have. And so whenever you, whatever direction it is that you're communicating, you have to consider your end of that. If you're talking

up, you're going, well, what's important to them? They've got very little time and I want to make sure that I value their time and not waste it. There's nothing more frustrating for a high level leader than to have their time wasted in so being succinct thinking through some of those things beforehand is important but when you're talking down you have to realize you are looking up receiving a message at some point in your life and you have to go back there and go man what did i want to happen oh boy in that moment you wanted somebody to go hey man i i see you yeah i want to share a story with you about exactly what you just said and i want your feedback on it but not as a business leader but as a parent yeah so a few weeks ago unfortunately um i haven't even put this out on social

media yet but we lost our dog lily oh man i'm sorry here yeah we're very everyone that follows me on social for years know we very close with our three yeah our three pomeranians and so lily was the matriarch we lost her excuse me wow and uh my daughter's home it was my daughter i gave my daughter her that was her gift as a dog my daughter happened to be home from college when it happened But anyway, it was an emotional thing. And as she was passing, there was these discussions of how many times they were going to take her to the vet. She was in the hospital for five days. It just got emotionally charged.

So just picture an emotionally charged conversation. And my daughter observed my communication with my wife and hers with me. And in the middle of it, my daughter, let's just say, sided with the way her mom was communicating and not me. and came to me with firm feedback. We'll put it that way. And I would actually say that's how it was. I wouldn't even say I'm wordsmithing. And in that moment, I had two choices, which was one, to flex, I'm the father, you know, that thing.

Oh, yeah. Or to be humble and truly listen to my daughter. And in that moment, I said, you know what? You're right. You're right. And I'm going to do what you just suggest. This is from my daughter. And I could have said, I paid the bills around here.

Then my daughter went to bed and I went into her, I knocked on her door and I said, can I come in for a minute? And I said, just want you to know how right you were and I apologize. And I thought, hey, right in this last hour, I've been a pretty good dad, a pretty good leader. Yeah. If you're running a business, you know that every time you miss a call, it's costing you money. And right now, business is so competitive, you can't miss calls. When every customer conversation matters, you need a phone system that keeps up and helps you stay connected 24-7. And with all the innovations and technology with AI, et cetera, that's why open friends.

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the number one family finance and safety app. Don't wait to teach your kids real world money skills. Start your risk-free greenlight trial today at greenlight.com slash ed. That's greenlight.com slash ed to get started. Greenlight.com slash ed. So one is the humility piece. The second thing, when I look back on leaders that I've worked with or for that I admire, I feel like they really listened to me well and asked questions,

whereas the other ones talked at me. So how much of this, because I listened to her, how much of this is creating a sense with complicated people that you're actually listening to them? A big of an element do you think that is? I think it's massive. Because if you walk into a room and you're simply dictating what everyone should do and say,

hey, go make my ideas happen, you have robots. But if you walk into a room and go, let me pull out the gold inside of you, then we all create something together. And now you have a team. You're right. But you had to have listened to everybody to be able to pull that off. That is the difference to me between somebody that is leading and people have to follow them and leading and people get to follow them.

Yeah, they lead by position. They don't lead by their actual standing. It's interesting because especially, when people come to work with me because I whatever they'll think I as a public person and a guru or like oh he must think he has all the answers and they're usually very surprised and I go I actually have to go out of my wife to go listen to me I really want to know what you think okay like I know what I think absolutely there's no more space for what I think I want to know what you think and I think that sends a message to people you are valued and you're appreciated you have the book I just

want you to give them this gift because there's so much in the book you could give away anything I ask you to be good, but you have basically the four responses. Yeah. That you're teaching the book to complicated people to kind of avoid. Right. So here's what's not to do. And I love these because you're right on all of them. Yeah. What are those? So the first thing that you could do with a complicated person is you can avoid them, which a lot of people, which I do a lot. Let me just, let me just do my best to avoid talking to this person instead of meetings with them, which again, you don't buy books to avoid people. Like nobody does that. You're already good. at that. So you don't need my help with that. And while you can do that, I don't think that's the

growing version of you. I think there's a better option. The other option is you could cancel them. You could just say, you know, I'm done with this person altogether. I mean, you could, but the only problem is none of us like being on the other end of being canceled. The other option is you could try and change them, right? And it's just like, that lives with the mantra that says, the world will be a better place if you were just like me. Yes. And the world wouldn't be a better place. think the echo chamber is what you need, but that's not how you grow either. Again, you can try it. You're grown. You can do whatever you want. But the fourth option that we tell people to do in the book, which is like the hope of the book completely, which is to try to move towards someone with

understanding. Because every single one of us has had a moment where we were misunderstood. And in that moment, we were thinking, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, you misread it. No, that wasn't my tone. I know I text it, but that wasn't the tone in which I used. And like, in that moment, we all want our day in court. But when it's somebody else, it's like, well, we want karma for them and grace for ourselves. And so when we have this posture of saying, you know what, I want to move towards this person with understanding. What we discover is that complicated people often have a complicated behind the scenes. And when we begin to see what they were going through, when we begin to see, oh, wait, they lost their dog. Oh, wait, he had a very emotionally charged conversation

with his daughter last night. And now he's having one with me. And I, but I didn't. know that. But once I know that, I go, oh, the conversation changed, even though the words were the saying, the understanding postured me completely different. And so I think when we are the kinds of people that make a decision, says, man, I'm not going to jump to conclusions about people because I hate when people do it to me. I actually want to be slow to talk, quick to listen and be one of those people that go, man, I'm sure there might be more going on behind the scenes than I could ever see. I send out a text. It's an encouraging text to thousands of people every single week. One week I sent out the text. I said, hey, is there anything going on in your life that I can

pray for? I'm a person of faith. I said, man, let's just see what's going on with people in the world. This isn't a church group. These are all corporate people that I'm texting. I got 3,000 responses in one hour. Whoa. And my phone blew up. Whoa. With insanity. And my first thought was, I guarantee you their boss doesn't know. You're so right, brother. And they're just going to go to work. I sent that out on a Monday and guess what they're going to do? They're going to go to work on a Tuesday.

And so I often tell people. I say, hey, the people you work with, they're going through something they would never tell you. They say, how do you know? I could show you my phone. Unbelievable. And so if you knew what they were going through, you would go, man, let me give them a pass. Little grace. Because it's what you and I both want.

Yes. It's just that we have to get in that position of being the kinds of people that give that thing that we want the most. I'm loving this just so you know. Like I wonder if part of it is we do, you know, we talk a lot in person of all, like our own biases or our own worldview. I also think when someone's been in your life a while, you think you know who they are. Yeah. So you're like, okay, that's the, that's the victim one. That's the one who gets set off really easy about this.

That's the emotional one. that's the one who really doesn't care as much as everybody else. That's the lazy one. And we've kind of got them sort of. And so then when they behave in a certain way, we just put them back in the box they're in. Rather than thinking that it could actually be circumstantial or conditional. It's just like,

oh, that's what they do. They fly off the handle. Do you agree with that? Like we almost. And so we're actually not dealing with people as a human being. We're dealing with them as an idea of a human being. This is important everybody. I want you to lean into this because I'm old.

So I've done this. And I've looked. I started to deal. with people when they would behave a particular way as an idea of a human, not a nuanced person who's capable of range and depth, but like, oh, that's the one that they always do this when, when in fact, it may be circumstance or conditional or they may be right. So I guess we fall into patterns of beliefs about people and then that we never allow them to vary out of it. And so we respond emotionally to them as a result. This is in personal life, even maybe more than business. Absolutely.

And it's just not fair to all of us. And here's why. I used to hear all the time, you know first impressions or everything it's like yeah but it's not fair it is not fair and the reason it's not fair is because haven't you grown in the last 10 years yes and let's just say i met you 10 years ago and i said oh let me tell you by ed yes you but i can't hold you to that prison or you met me the day lily passed yeah i mean you don't really so and i talk about in my book i was working with a um an NBA team and uh one of the leaders of the team he was talking about a player on his team that he couldn't stand. And I was like, oh, man, I'm mad that I brought him up. And then I brought him up again three months ago. I said, hey, how are you in this player doing? He said, oh, they're my

favorite player now. They're crazy. And I said, what happened? He said, they've grown on me. And I said, man, I don't do that well. I need to leave margin for people to grow on me more. I put people in boxes way too fast and go, okay, that's the emotional one. And that, that's just who they are. If someone shows you who they are believe them it's like no if someone shows you who they are maybe give them a chance to show you something different paint a new picture and now you've got this open mind of saying hey let me let's talk about this hey and i love using this phrase i've got a story in my head that i could use your help with i've got a story in my head about you that i could use your help with personal relationships i've got a story in my head that you don't love me anymore

Is that true? I've been ruminating, marinating this story in my head that I've not actually invited you in to be a part of that story. I've got a story in my head about you that you don't want to work here anymore. Is that true? I've got a story in my head that in my mind, you're not giving your best. Is that? Is that true? And maybe they feel like they're given 110% and they're overwhelmed and but it looks like you're behind but I've got this story in my head that I could use your help with when you use that phrase man you just you're walking with so much empathy and you're allowing somebody else to fill in the story I know people who tell stories to themselves about other people for decades you're right without ever inviting that person

in to say is that true brother that's brilliant I heard I heard you said this about me. And so you know what? Oh, you're going to talk about me behind my back? Okay, great. I never even verify that it was even true. Rory could have said that I said something. He's our mutual friend.

Wait, no, that wasn't exactly how I said. But we never even go back to verify. We immediately fill in the blank with the story. And we just move on and have people in these boxes. And so I think that idea of leaving margin in our world to say, maybe it's not the way that I have it in the story in my head but I actually have to be

vulnerable enough confident enough to pick up the phone and say hey man I I got a story in my head that I love this that you've actually not been a good friend to me and that may not be true

and in that moment they'll go do you know how many phone calls I made for you man did you know this other person was talking behind your back and I got you I didn't know, but sometimes we'll just, we'll be halfway down the street with this story in our head. That's not even true. I'm combining the two in my head of what you've suggested today. I may be wrong, but I've got this story in my head. Yeah. You know, that's outstanding. Thank you. Right there. That is outstanding. So guys, you know, I'm blessed to have a few different

businesses and a couple of them in the e-commerce space. And you know this. If you have an e-commerce business, you've got to be successful. The only way you're going to do it, you've got to keep your customers happy, and that's why I use ShipStation. You have to be able to get your stuff shipped out and packaged on time, and I want to do it at a fraction of the normal cost. I want to automate my shipping. I want to automate the cost. I want to be able to get reporting and robust automation all in one place. And where I do that is I do it with ShipStation. And here's the biggest thing. It's the fastest, most affordable way to get products to your customers. They got discounts up to like 88% on UPS, DHS, DHS, UPS, UPS, up to 90% off FedEx rates. Over 130,000 companies already use

ship station for their e-commerce, and I already told you that I'm one of them. When shoppers choose to buy your products, turn them into loyal customers with cheaper, faster, and better shipping. Go to shipstation.com slash my let to sign up for your free trial. There's no credit card or contract required, and you can cancel any time. That's shipstation.com slash my let. Okay, guys, I'm drinking a ton of water, which is good. I'm sure you do as well. You know what I'm learning about? It's depleting my electrolytes. And so electrolyte deficiency or imbalance can give you headaches, cramps. Big one for me, fatigue. I couldn't figure out why I was so fatigued. Flushing out all the electrolytes. Brain fog, weakness. You feel the difference when you get it right. Element is a zero sugar electrolyte drink mix,

and it's also an electrolyte drink. Element is formulated for anyone who wants to restore wellness through hydration and is perfectly suited for athletes, but also folks are fasting, folks on keto, low carb, whole food, just someone who wants to get healthier. Many high performing business leaders or executive athletes that have been on my show, Drink Element, it's part of their hydration routine. Element has a great offer for my listeners. Just go to DrinkLMNT.com slash Milet to get a free element sample pack with any order. That's drinklmn t.com slash my let. These statements and products have not been evaluated at the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition. What spurred this? Was there a particular

person? I got to know that made you write this book or circumstance. You know, I was getting ready to do a book tour for this, for this book. And the PR company, they didn't know the title of the book. So the book's called How to Work Complicated People, but they didn't know that. They said, okay, we're going to have you in New York. Or either we're going to take it to L.A. Then you're going to go Tampa. You're going to do all this stuff. New York Times bestseller, by the way. Thank you. And then I sent them my speaking schedule. I said, I don't know when I'll even have time. I think I did 14 events in 16 days or something like that. I was like, when am I going to go to New York? I don't, I don't, I don't have any space in my calendar to do that. And the guy writes

back, hey, Ryan, we're going to pass on working together. You're too complicated. And I said, I understand what you're saying, but I got a book for you. And if you just read it, you will learn how to work with me. I think overall, the impetus of the book was for me to go, man, I want to write a manifesto for the people that work with me to say, hey man, this is what I wish people would have moved towards me because I've often just felt misunderstood. And so I thought, man, if I can help people work with me, maybe I can help them work with some other people. Can I tell you something, brother? Yeah. That's what I thought when I read the book about myself. Yeah. I think I'm the complicated one. Yeah. I'm just complicated. I'm as kind as they come and as intense as they

come yeah um really really bright sometimes and the biggest dumb ass on the planet other times you know what I'm saying like I read the book and I like I'm pretty sure yeah this book is for everyone who's ever been around me including my own family yeah you know and when I meet people that I grew up with they're like bro I can't believe this is you or even that's a compliment right or when people that work with you 10 or 15 years ago are like wow what a difference you know like I love that part How do you know this is a toughie and I know it's philosophy, but I'm curious as your opinion because you're become an expert through writing about something and living it. How do you know when this relationship, friendship, personal relationship or business relationship needs a little bit more grace and work or just distance or termination? Yeah. I think you've got to be able to rest your head on the pillow and say, I gave my very best to this relationship.

I think most people stop short whenever they get annoyed or exhausted. But I think being able to say, hey, did I go to this person and say, hey, I really want this relationship to work out? Did I, hey, I could be wrong. Hey, did I, there's a story in my, did I do everything in my power? Did I help them get counseling? Did I get a meet? Did I do everything in my part of the relationship because it takes two to tango? I think once you answer that question, that's the moment where you can make a change.

I also think you want to be able to be aware of the signs of somebody who is also in the relationship trying to make it work. You and I are very growth mindset individuals. Yes. So we can work on just about anything. We can negotiate just about anything. If we're looking at a project, we're going, okay, well, we're going to bring whatever we can to the table to try and make this work. Well, not everybody has a growth mindset. Some people have a stuck mindset. Some people have a, I am who I am, you do you, I do me, do me, do me, boo, like that some people just, that's just how they roll. And those are people that are going to be hard to do a relationship with in the long haul when they don't think that they even need

to change. You're right. There's a line that I write in the book that I think is very, very important. And it's stop expecting people to change who aren't trying to. Amen. Because if they're trying to change, they'll spend money to change. You're right. call mentors to change. They'll listen to podcasts. They'll read books. They're, they're trying to change. They read a book like this and think, man, I got some things to work on. A lot of people just show up and they're just like, I'm good. You're lucky to have me. You're right, though. And you're like, are we? You know, I think sometimes I've looked at people like their, you said project earlier. I think sometimes I've looked at people like, this one's a project. I'm going to work on

this one. And you stipulate in the book, like, people aren't problems to be solved. And that's an unhealthy perspective on humans. You're right. What is the right perspective? And if people aren't problems to be solved or projects to be worked on, then how should we be viewing these precious people? I think they're humans to be understood. That's the simple and best answer I can think of is man this is this is a human being that I have I don't I don't have a robot yet but pretty close but they're they're a human to be understood and again I want to do my my best I can't control them as much as I want to and I think more and more in the American workforce leaders are getting more and more frustrated because they think oh if I just pay them enough money yes they'll just do

what I want them to do and then they pay them a bunch of money and then yet they still don't do what they want them to do and so it's like money is not the controlling factor that it used to be I think older generations are just like hey you pay me 100 grand I'll run through a wall I will do whatever you tell me to do that's not the case not true people want to be

especially this next generation they're much more cause oriented aren't they contribution oriented so do you have to communicate that to people that they're valued to are a lot of these things the symptom not the disease as you said like that this has gotten to the point because this person doesn't feel valued

or that they're contributing or appreciated. And now the symptom is showing up of them acting out or this dissension or this complication. And some proactivity would be better than reactivity most of the time. The hard part is, is people skills aren't really taught in schools. Yes. And so I deal with practitioners who are elite at what they do. They're a dentist.

Not a people person. They're not a manager office. They know how to do a root canal. Right. Yes. You talk about a professional athlete. it's like I know how to dunk you want me to have people skills and like lead the team and motivate him and know how to do media and do it's like no I I'm I'm a freakish athlete I know how to

play basketball that does not mean I know how to do people and so it doesn't matter what the industry is people can get really good at their job and they can really suck at people in the people part of all of it we're all in the people business is we do have to look at one another and go hey I value you there ain't a class that's going to teach you that right it's so it can be front you're like but here's the job description and on my job description it doesn't say you need to go value people right it's like no I've got to be this leader I've got to have vision it's just like yeah but if you're going to get them to actually do something about that vision they have to feel like they belong I just did a podcast on encouraging people and I feel like sometimes these environments

are just some periodically the lack of encouragement being proactive by the leader or even as the father or the mother. There's a lack of like encouragement and I think people begin to get burned out as a result. So what are your takes on encouragement and also what do you deal with someone like a leader or a father? I'm just burnt right now on this whole carrying the emotional burden of the company all the time and dealing with these complicated people. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I got to tell you, I'm glad that they do because people ask me all the time. What are most of the guests on your show have in common? Because there's all these different industries and stories. I'd say the one thing, most of them have been to therapy, and I've been to therapy. I think

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BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash ed show. That's BetterH-E-L-P dot com slash Ed Show. What do you say to that person who's just like, I'm just tired, I'm busy, I'm tired, I got family, I got work, I got this, we got inventory, we got to make our numbers. Now you want me to deal with these complicated people. I'm already fried.

I think at some point they've got to be able to step back and go, what's all this for? Where's it all going? Because we are all the products of all of our habits and actions over the course of a period of time. And so you have to ask yourself, if you keep going the exact way that you're going, what results are you going to get and are you going to be happy with that? And let's just say at the end of that, you're richer, but yet your relationships have suffered. Are you sure you want to keep rowing in that? that direction is what I would ask because we're all going somewhere we are all going somewhere

and some of us are going there way too fast so I think being able to step back and go okay what do I actually want to produce here I know I've got numbers I know I've got metrics I know I've got all my KPIs and that's great but as far as my relationships am I going to wake up 10 years from now and yet my kids don't even want to talk to me that's not good so in light of that I need to be intentional the words intentionality intentionality intentionality intentionality intentionality intentionality and the more intentional we become the more value we create and so i encourage people all the time i do this with the audiences every other day i say uh raise your hand in the audience thousand people raise your hand if you have ever had a colleague send you a video on your birthday

saying happy birthday raise your hand on average it's less than four percent i said yes so i said so i'm just going to make you an intentional leader i'm making an intentional colleague right now when to somebody's birthday just instead of just sending a text everybody gets a text you send out of it hey so glad you're born so glad we worked together hey happy birthday have a great day yes in that moment they go there is a 96% chance that they'll say i've never worked with anybody that sent me a video on my birthday then i say hey i'll raise your hand if you've ever had your half birthday celebrate it half birthday three percent of the room same thing how many of you've ever had some colleagues celebrate your wedding and a

anniversary. Two percent, one percent. You imagine how long you've been married? 29 years. Can you imagine? Imagine somebody that works for you to go say, hey, on your anniversary for 30 years ago, hey, I realize it's pretty hard to be married three decades and lead me at the same time. Hey, congrats on 30 years. It'd be the most meaningful video you've gotten from a coworker like ever. It's like immediately. And then in the audience, I'll say, hey, raise your hand if you've been married over 30 years. 35 years, 40 years. And then whoever it is, we all go nuts for that person. I go, do you know how hard it is to work here?

Yes, everybody laughs. And everybody laughs. It's like, but what do we do? We just, we created moments of intentionality. If you can do that, people will feel like, man, I, I, I, I, you see me, I'm valued. Bonus points, if you can remember kids' names. I mean, now, now we're going above and beyond. I'll tell you this, my pastor, last week, my son turned six years old.

We get a video. see he goes hey I'm not trying to talk to the parents right now I want to talk to Roman hey Roman you're awesome yeah hey man I just want to say happy birthday from your pastor yeah it's like when you when people think about Christians or pastors they don't tell that story brother I love that about the pastor so you have a Roman I have a maximus we both went with kind of common theme there sure I a few weeks ago was a friend's birthday and I don't usually do this yeah um and I made him a video and It wasn't even a quick one.

It was like why I love him and why I'm so proud of him. Very prominent man, very well-known man, very successful. And I'm sure he had 26 billion text messages on his birthday. And I saw him and he was walking down a hallway towards me. First off, before I saw him, his assistant said to me, I won't say his name, but he was very moved by your video. He's mentioned it to me two or three times. Yeah. So she knew about it.

That's right. And then as he turned the corner of the hallway, saw me, broke down. broke down and by the time he got to me he just hugged me and couldn't speak yeah i just sent him a video message for his birthday means the world but it may not have happened ever or in 30 years it hasn't happened you're so right then i want to tell you a story about a guy and then i want your thought on boundaries is where we're going to go last but growing up remember when you'd have to call someone's house to talk to them so when i was growing up my dad had all these different bosses and people that he worked with but there was this one man named jerry farley and when

Jerry Farley would call the house. He would, you know, my dad would pick up, and I could hear them talking, and it was a couple minutes about business. And then I'd hear my dad go, oh, no, he got two hits in the game and this. And Michelle got a goal in soccer. Jerry Farley started to ask about the kids by name. Then he would take it a step further. Then he would have my dad put me on the phone.

He would do this almost every time he called our home. I'd say, hey, Mr. Farley, he says, it's Jerry, Eddie. He goes, can I just tell you? you what your dad's been telling me about you yeah he talks about you all the time you have no idea how proud your dad is of you you're the apple of his eye man he just he thinks the world of you and then every once in a while he'd write me a letter wow just a handwritten note i'm 12 14 15 years old wow hey your dad walked in today and told me the story of blah blah blah blah blah what a great story i'm so proud of you but this guy here we are my father's passed away i believe jerry's now

passed away a year or two ago of all the men my father ever worked with i can tell you the name of one. Jerry. Jerry Farley. And I'm 54 years old. He made me feel special. That's right. No matter what went on in that work environment that was toxic or if they didn't get along, I promise you, my dad reverted back to that was this man's intention and who he was. And my dad worked with him until he retired. Never took a job anywhere else, right? So to your point, my dad revered him. And I revere him. I don't know whether he was good at his job or not. I have no idea. I never asked my dad that question. Is he even any good at his job? Sure. But I know he was a good man. I know he cared about our family.

And that runs deep. My dad never took more money to go somewhere else. A better opportunity. Closer to work, didn't have to commute. None of that ever entered my dad's mind. My dad worked Saturdays till late at night for Jerry Farley. So you make a great point. Great point.

I wanted to add that. The last thing I want to ask you about, I've done a terrible job of this in my life, which is setting boundaries for the people around me. Yep. Boundaries in the workplace. I'm talking about asks of me, favors, what's appropriate, what's not, what's in my calendar.

I am maybe one of the all-time worst boundary setters. It's just been an invisible spot for me. And then I'm constantly paying the price for the lack of boundaries, which increases intensity and friction and all this other stuff. Had I just been good at the boundary thing, probably would have eliminated about 70% of this stuff. So what's your advice on boundaries, setting them, how to do it, et cetera? Well, I mean, you set it in your question.

You're going to pay for it one way or another. So you can pay the price of the awkward conversations at the beginning, or you could pay the price of stressed out, extraneous relationships all around you because, you know, you couldn't say now. How do you have the awkward conversation, though? How do you master that? For me, I, again, I look at the direction of my life. Where's all this going? And I start with my kids. I got 10 and 6.

Okay, I got 10 and 6. So they're looking, you're in the hunt. You know what to me? And so I've just decided a long time ago that part of my definition of success is that my kids still want to go on business trips with me 20 years from now. And so even when I do a corporate keynote, I show a picture of me and my son on a business trip. And I say the goal is that 20 years from now, we're still taking pictures on business trips. And he wants to, not because he has to.

like me and my son were going to Vegas in Phoenix Thursday and Friday, can't wait. That's awesome. And he's stoked. The goal is like, man, are you going to crush it in Scottsdale and Vegas? Of course. But the real goal is that he has the time of his life and that he still wants to do it 20 years from now. For that to happen, that means I have to set boundaries with a lot of people. And so I have to consistently say no.

And in my write-up, hey, I'll even tell clients, And I would love to come and do the dance the night before I can't. Got my son. I've got my family. And just so you know, here's what I'm going to teach. I'm going to teach that you, every single person should have their own personal definition of success and that they should stand by. I'm going to tell you what mine is, hey, would you help me be a great dad and a great speaker that actually lives what he's talking about? So now we're talking about a boundary that says, hey, if your event's at four, I'm not coming

in the day before, too, unless it's in Hawaii. Unless we're going somewhere, you know what I mean? But we're going to, you know, Kansas City is just like, no, I live in Dallas. I'll get there. We can get a private plane. Whatever we need to do to make sure we've never missed an event. I know it's going to make you anxious. I know you're going to give some pushback.

But unfortunately, if I can't, then I can. can't come. I love you. And so I have to say no to a lot of things that other people would say, no, this is successful. You mean, you're not going to do this person's event. It's like, I can't do that event and coach my son's basketball. Because you know where you want this to be in 20 years. You keep that front and center. That's your true north. And I let people know that. And when they hear that, they want you more. And now they're going, I probably should have done that. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Most CEOs are going, I'm nervous that you're coming in the same day, but I wish I would have sent this email.

I wish I would have made this phone call. And so sometimes that is the difference is going, hey, agent, don't send this in an email. Give me their phone number. I'm going to call him. Hey, here's a situation. My son's got a basketball game. And what it costs to be me, it actually cost him a lot for me to be who I am. So when this book hit the New York Times bestsellers list, my son freaked out.

And it was like all his hard work paid off. That's so good. You're trying to make me fall in love with you, Ryan Lee. By the way, just so each child gets a shout out to the audience. We got Roman and we. We got Jackson. All right. We got Jackson as well.

You're exceptional. Thank you. You're exceptional. And after you were booked, everybody that we knew mutually told me what powerhouse you were and how brilliant you were but what i've sensed with you is uh obviously your IQ is very very high but i sense your heart and your spirit thank you god shines through you bro i appreciate that yeah you're special thank you you are this book is special too everybody can i just tell you something yeah this is why i do the podcast right here yeah like a perfect

conversation back and forth no wasted minutes everything you said helped people good this is why i started this show right here wow and so uh you make me feel good about doing this today thank you How to Work with Complicated People with the Ryan Leak. New York Times bestseller already. Let's keep it on the list, you guys. Go get it. Follow Ryan on social as well. He's exceptional.

You heard it today. Ryan, thank you. God bless you, Max out. By the way, get on my email list, edmylet.com so you get the episodes early. And also so that we're communicating more often. Maybe I'll figure out something to send you someday as well.

God bless you. Max out. This is the Edmiler Show. Thank you.