THE ED MYLETT SHOW - John Maxwell on High Road Leadership

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

Unlock the Secrets to High-Road Leadership with John Maxwell! This week, I'm honored to sit down, AGAIN, with the legendary John Maxwell, a titan in the world of leadership and personal development. We're diving into groundbreaking insights from his latest book, "High Road Leadership," and discussing what it truly means to LEAD without keeping score. In this power-packed episode, we explore the transformative principles of leadership that can elevate every aspect of your life. From the unique joys and challenges of building my island retreat—complete with a golf course, horses, and a saloon—to the profound lessons on selfless leadership, this conversation is filled with invaluable wisdom and more including: Selfless Leadership: Learn why true leaders don’t keep score and how this mindset can transform your relationships. Building Legacy: Discover the importance of creating spaces and experiences that reflect your values and passions. Hope Island (behind the scenes): Get behind-the-scenes stories about my journey developing Hope Island and my personal journey of building this sanctuary. Transformational Principles: Understand the core principles of high-road leadership and how to implement them in your own life. John shares a powerful story about the toxicity of transactional relationships and the freedom that comes from leading with heart and integrity. This episode is a game-changer for anyone striving to be a better leader, partner, or friend. Join us for this intimate and candid conversation that’s sure to inspire you to elevate your leadership game and live with greater purpose and passion. Don’t miss out on these transformative insights from one of the greatest leadership minds of our time! Ready to max out your potential? Listen NOW and share this episode with anyone who needs a dose of high-road leadership! Let’s go!🔥 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So hey guys, listen, we're all trying to get more productive and the question is, how do you find a way to get an edge? I'm a big believer that if you're getting mentoring or you're in an environment that causes growth, a growth based environment, that you're much more likely to grow and you're going to grow faster. And that's why I love Growth Day. Growth Day is an app that my friend Brendan Burchard has created that I'm a big fan of. Write this down, growthday.com forward slash ed. So if you want to be more productive, by the way the way he's asked me I post videos in there every single Monday that gets your day off to the right start he's got about five thousand ten thousand dollars worth of courses that are in there that come with the app also some of the top influencers in the world are all posting content and they're

on a regular basis like having the Avengers of personal development and business in one app and I'm honored that he asked me to be a part of it as well and contribute on a weekly basis, and I do. So go over there and get signed up. You're going to get a free, tuition-free voucher to go to an event with Brendan and myself and a bunch of other influencers as well. So you get a free event out of it also.

So go to growthday.com forward slash Ed. That's growthday.com forward slash Ed. Welcome back to the show everybody. So today I have a man here who he's trying to become an author, evidently. He's decided he wants to be an author. He's creeping up on doing pretty well. He's only sold, he's coming up on 35 million books sold. He is identified by most people who know what they're talking about as the foremost expert on leadership in the world on business. But for me, on a personal note, he's my hero in this space and I'm so honored. You know, the word mentor is so overused but he's truly a mentor to me and it makes me emotional just to tell you that it's awesome in life when you look up to

somebody so much and then when you get to know them not only do they meet your expectations they exceed them and this man exceeds them in ways that are beyond my imagination and I truly love him and I admire him and most decisions I make in my life I think what would love him and I admire him. And most decisions I make in my life I think, what would John do? And so that John is John Maxwell. He's got an incredible new book out called High Road Leadership that I read cover to cover here in a day and a half, but I had talked to him about it as well. And that the subtitle is, Bringing People Together in a World that Divides. And that could not be more true in these times.

So I love you, John Maxwell. Welcome back to the show. Oh, gosh, Ed, I love you so much. And everything you say, it's just mutual. It's mutual. You know, in great relationships, Ed, I found that when you're in a great relationship, you're always looking to say, I've got to add more value to that person because they're adding so much value to me.

I never can catch up with the other person on how much they're helping me. So you're just heaping, doing everything you possibly can. And I feel that way with you. I feel every time I'm with you, my thirst is quenched and my questions are answered. And I'm just at peace because I know I'm with a real friend, a person that really does care for me

and love me unconditionally. And what you have done for me and what you do for millions of people, you know, Ed, it's just amazing. So anytime I'm with you, I just, I'm very grateful to God. At 77, you really take relationships in a very, a very personal way and a very important way because my time is limited,

so I gotta figure out who I'm gonna spend my time with you and you're right at the top of the list. Every time, every time. If Ed Malette is in there, I'm saying, whatever it is, Ed, you want, I'm there. Thank you. And I think you have a long time left. This man sleeps five hours a night, you guys,

and I just spent a few days with him on a trip and I couldn't keep up with them from an energy standpoint And I'm not saying that to be nice like I literally can't keep up with them from an energy standpoint Okay, so let's talk about some high road leadership here today and help people as we do every time you're on and all of your books do I Read the book and I'll just be honest with you, I think of you when I'm reading the things in this book, that you embody high road leadership to me. But you say something in the beginning of the book that I want to ask you about. You say, you know, we're in

a, you basically set the premise in the beginning of the book, like we're in a really difficult time right now on this stuff. Like you kind of define reality a little bit. Like we're, there's not a lot of high road leadership, at least politically, in the world that you see right now. I'm just curious, why now on this book? And I don't usually ask you that on most of your books, but this has a time. You wrote this for this time for a reason. Yeah, I did.

In fact, you know, it's an interesting backstory as we pull back the curtains, Ed. I had written a book on how to receive a return on failure. Okay? And the book's, I mean, the manuscript's done. And all of a sudden I looked at the time we're going into, I think what is gonna be a very difficult political year. I think we're gonna be jerked around, okay? And I'm not pleased.

All of our people that are part of the podcast, just relax. I'm not Republican, I'm not Democrat. All of our people that are part of the podcast, just relax. I'm not Republican, I'm not Democrat. I'm just leadership sad. Because I don't think in our country, we are getting the leaders that we deserve. And I don't think that we have the quality of leaders that I want my children and grandchildren

to see and be a part of. And so I held the manuscript on How to Receive a Return on Failure. And I held the manuscript on how to receive a return on failure. And I said, I've got to write this book for such a time as this. And here's the reason. Think about it, Ed. Go back and think about books that really impacted your life. Now, I do this a lot.

I'm a reflector. And in fact, in my office, right behind me, in my right in the right behind me on the right side, I have two shelves of not a lot of books. I've got to say 50 books maybe that I've read in my lifetime that I can point to that book and say, that changed my life. That took me to a whole new level. And so I go back and I look at those books quite often because they were such a part

of my life. Here's what I discover. When I go back to them now, I look at them and I smile because I remember when I read them, but what made them so important to me was the timing of when I read the book. What the book said met the timing of what I needed to hear. And that's what makes a book unforgettable.

The book has content that can change your life, but you're ready to have your life changed at the time you read the content. It's kind of like, what's it saying when, when the student appears, you know, so will the teacher. You know, it's kind of like that. And so when I think of High Road Leadership, I thought I need to write the book right now

because here's what I know. Everybody seems to feel and sense that we're not living up to our leadership privileges. And everybody knows that something's not right and we are divided. We're not the United States of America. We're the divided States of America now. We're described as red or blue.

And that's not, that's the, democracy doesn't work good in that kind of an environment. Never has. Democracy isn't built for that kind of environment. And so I wrote the book to kind of help us look at ourselves. Doesn't matter whether we're in politics, good Lord. It matters for me because I want to be a high road leader.

And here's what I know. To help people make change, one of the most important things to do, because I'm a change agent, you're a change agent, you have to give them a picture of what it looks like. You can't ask for change, you have to show change. You have to show a picture where a person says, oh, I got it.

If I'm a high road leader, this is what I'll look like. And by the way, this will be one of my characteristics. So I, in the book, put 12 characteristics of what a high road leader looks like, which is each chapter. And basically, it's a picture book. In fact, for my children and for my grandchildren, I sat down the other day, I have five grandchildren, and I said, I'm going to take you through each chapter of this book

because my grandchildren, they're starting at age 23 down to 17 now, but they really haven't seen much high-rude leadership. If you haven't seen it, you don't know how to be it. The first prerequisite, Ed, of bringing change is awareness. The moment that I'm aware, I can change, but you can't fix what you don't know. And so this is kind of like a picture book of awareness. This is what we should like as leaders. Now, let's go for it. Let's make the choices that we need to make to be a high road leader. Does that make sense? It does. And I got a hard question for you about that because there's so many things. There's bring people together. There's acknowledge your humanness. Yes. Do the right thing for the right reasons. I want to ask you the hard one because this is by the way everybody the book is not about politics

at all. It's about leadership and business and family and in life. But obviously it's born out of our culture today. I was just literally watching something right before you and I started and someone was being interviewed. One guy was on the left, one guy was on the right and they kept asking each of them about their candidate. Neither one of them would speak about their own candidate. I literally just watched this. They were just trashing the other guy. Like they would not even one guy wouldn't even say the name of his candidate. I'm like, my gosh, acknowledge the guy exists. It was all this guy's that he voted for this. He did that. He's got this mental issue. He's got these of criminal. It was just unbelievable to watch these two.

Now, having said that, I think the root of it is valuing people. I think you have to value it. And that's the second chapter of the book. How do you, how do you value somebody? It's a hard question that you disagree with, or that might even have a lifestyle for whatever reason you don't agree with. How does one... what's the root of that John? Like valuing people because I think what you just said is true. I was raised to value people of every walk of life, of every economic status, but I think there's a lot of people that have not been raised the last 20 years that way. So how do we value somebody maybe that we disagree

with? Well first of all you were raised to value people because they're people. Okay, if it's okay, I'll get a little faith. I won't stay here long, but first of all, you have to understand that I'm a person of faith, okay? And the very fact that God created a person is all I need to know about valuing people. If God values you enough to create you, if he values you enough to make you in his image, if he values you enough to give you giftedness that will help you be successful in life, if he values you enough to say,

before I created you, I had plans created you, you're not going to be successful in life. If he values you enough to say, before I created you, I had plans for you, all of that tells me that God values people. So when people say, in fact, I was speaking to a group of leaders and we were doing Q&A and one of the leaders said, John, you don't even know me yet, you say you value me.

And I said, I do. And I said, but my answer is a faith answer. I said, I value you because God created you. And hey, it's very simple. If God values you, I'm in. I value you too. So that's the root. The root is the very fact that God created you means that you are a person of value.

It has nothing to do, Ed, with agreeing or disagree. You know, just last week, And so, but when it be forced for somebody says, think about it for 55 years, they've agreed on everything. Oh my gosh. We have, you know what, we have things in our marriage we don't even talk about. Because we both know that we don't agree. And we both also know that I'm not right and she's not right. And we both know that we don't agree. because we both know that we don't agree. And we both also know that I'm not right and she's wrong, or she's not right and I'm wrong. We just have different perspectives. And we value each other enough to respect each other

and give each other space to disagree. And it's okay, it's okay. And we are very comfortable loving each other, being together, but we don't have to see eye to eye on everything. We don't have to agree. And so I think when people think of valuing people, they get messed up when they think, well, I don't agree with their lifestyle, or I don't agree with that that political party's persuading. And I'm looking, I said, well, I don't agree with it either. That has nothing to do with value you as a person. And I think that's the big,

valuing people is the big picture. If you don't have the big picture, the picture's never gonna look right. And you take our country now, democracy, the reason that democracy works is because of shared thinking. And shared thinking is a result of being, valuing the other person.

If you and I are on opposite sides, if I value you, I'm gonna say, Ed, I wanna hear from you. I wanna listen to you. I want you to tell me what you think. And people say that can't be done politically. I say, you're completely wrong. Abraham Lincoln in the darkest hours of our country, when he formed his cabinet, he put political adversaries on the cabinet because he said, the Civil War is more important than my

opinion. And I have got to hear people, hey, what did Winston Churchill do during World War II? In his bunker in London, he put Clement Attlee, his political adversary, who would later beat him out as prime minister, he put him in the same bunker with him. His daughter said, daddy, why do you have your political enemies in the bunker? And he said, because the World War II is more important than what my opinions are.

I've got to get the best from everybody. And the only way you can get the best from everybody is to value everybody. Because the moment I devalue a person, they're not even in the picture. So what happens is I exclude people that I devalue out of my picture and my perspective. And so therefore, I never have a total well-rounded perspective because I didn't value a person enough to listen to them. Does that make sense?

That's an incredible answer. But we politically have answers. Winston Churchill did it. Abraham Lincoln did it. So when people say, well, we couldn't do it in this day and age, I look at them and say, oh, yes, unless I miss it, we don't have a civil war going on right now. We've had a darker day than today, but we will never be, we'll never turn the ship around until we value the other person.

See, if I don't value you, here's what's so terrible about devaluing people. If I'm devalued, I never get the opportunity to use my gifts as God gave them, because I was dev aside before I ever had a chance to ever show who I possibly could be to be in the picture to helping the other people. So my dad, when I graduated from college, and we were having dinner that night, and I said, dad, what's the advice for me,

not politically, as a leader for the rest of my life? And he said, John, three things. One, I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. And he, we were having dinner that night. And I said, dad, what's the advice for me, as a leader for the rest of my life? And he said, John, three things every day, value people, believe in people, unconditionally love them. He said, if you'll do those three things, he said, the world will be yours

because the world is not valued. The world doesn't have unconditional love in it. And very few people have enough belief to really spread their wings. Do those three things and people will just, they'll be on your team. They'll want to be on your team and that was advice when I graduated from college and that's how I speak, that's how I write books, that's how you do it. That's exactly what you do. Well you do it and you do it at a

different level. I mean you won't see John speak where he says he doesn't say hey I'm John and I'm your friend. But John even says that to people who scrutinize or criticize him personally. He'll even do that. I'm your friend. It's okay, we disagree. It's okay that you feel a certain way about me.

He lives this stuff. So hey guys, I wanna jump in here for a second and talk about change and growth. And you know, by the way, it's no secret how people get ahead in life or how they grow and also taking a look at the future If you want to change your future, you got to change the things you're doing if you continue to do the same things You're probably gonna produce the same results But if you get into a new environment where you're learning new things and you're around other people that are growth oriented

You're much more likely to do that yourself And that's why I love growth day write this down for a second growth day to do that yourself. And that's why I love growth day. Write this down for a second. Growthday.com forward slash ed. My friend, Brendal Bouchard has created the most incredible personal development and business app that I've ever seen in my life. Everything from goal setting software to personal accountability, journaling, horses, thousands of dollars worth of courses in there as well. I create content in there on Mondays where I contribute as do a whole bunch of other influences like the Avengers of influencers and business minds in there. It's the Netflix for high achievers or people that want to be high achievers.

So go check it out. My friend, Brennan's made it very affordable, very easy to get involved. Go to growthday.com forward slash Ed. That's growthday.com forward slash Ed. Hey guys, you've been hearing about Mint Mobile probably everywhere. And I'm super excited that you're hearing about them now on the Ed Mylett show, because I just switched my daughter's long distance service over to Mint Mobile because these the same 5G service everybody else is using but

it's so much less money so with big network providers, the big wireless ones, what you see is what you get. Somewhere between the store and your first month's bill, the price you thought you were paying magically skyrockets so you can say bye-bye to your overpriced wireless plans with these jaw-dropping bills that you get every once in a while unexpected overages which we just got so to get this new customer offer and your new three-month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month go to mintmobile.com slash my let that's mintmobile.com slash my let cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month mintmobile.com slash my let cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month. Mintmobile.com slash my let $45 upfront payment required equivalent to the $15 a month new customers for the first three month plan only speed slower on

40 gigabytes on an unlimited plan additional taxes fees and restrictions apply. See Mintmobile.com for details. So I've been talking for a long time here on the show about the fact that I've been really working on my Spanish and I just took a trip to Mexico the last few weeks I went on a speaking tour down there with John Maxwell and I got a chance to really see whether or not I've improved I got to tell you thanks to Babel. My Spanish is pretty darn good I was able to order in restaurants communicate with people Even had a great time at a cigar lounge chopping it up with a bunch of people speaking Spanish

Thanks to Babel and one of the reasons I love Babbel is you have to spend hundreds of dollars on some professional tutor, and their lessons are only 10 minutes long, crafted by about 200 different language experts. They're very easy to learn, and you're gonna be making improvements right away. I really recommend you try Babbel. So, here's a special limited time deal for our listeners.

Right now, get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at Babbel.com slash MyLet. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com slash MyLet spelled Babbel B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash MyLet. Rules and restrictions may apply please visit Babbel.com for details. One of the ways there's so many principles in the book guys that as I watch them there's things in there I go you know I now do that well or I didn't used to or there's things in there that I think to myself I still don't do that very well and one of the things I wish I saw in more leaders I'd like you to speak to it because it makes me trust you more first off it's the

right thing to do when I after I ask you about it. It's the right thing to do but two it makes me trust you more. Nothing is less trustworthy to me than someone who's perfect and never acknowledges a mistake. I really appreciate a leader who says, I got this wrong. I'll do better next time. And so, or I, my intentions were good. I got it wrong. Or you know what? I just made a mistake. That to me is somebody that I can trust. Believe it or not, you think, no, if they make mistakes, I won't trust them. No, it's someone who won't acknowledge them.

And so you say in the book, I think you call it acknowledging your humanness. Yes. Teach us a little bit about that as a leader. I love that phrase. Well, first of all, I agree with you. And people don't want a perfect leader because, first of all, there's no perfect leader.

So let's get off that. There's no perfect person. Let's get off that. People don't want a perfect leader, but they do want an authentic one. They want a real leader. They want somebody that does acknowledge their humanist. And what I tell everybody is,

everyone always have an ego in us. And boy, we love ego. I mean, I believe I can fly and I'm soaring. I'm going higher than ever gone before. That eagle within me just makes me better than I could ever imagine. But I only not have an eagle in me. I've got a hippo in me.

Yes, it's great. Let me tell you something. That hippo doesn't fly. You know what that hippo wants more than anything else? A mud hole. Just give me anything else? A mud hole. Just give me an old, stinking mud hole. And the hippo will go in that mud hole and stand for hours just in a mud hole.

Well, I have a hippo in me, and there are some days I'm not an eagle. There are some days I'm not soaring and flying. Oh my gosh, look at John Maxwell. He's such an inspiration. No, there are some times I go down to the mud hole and I'm in that mud hole and I'm not soaring and flying, oh my gosh, look at John Maxwell, he's such an inspiration. No, there are some times I go down to the mud hole, and I'm in that mud hole, and I'm stinking, and I'm not doing what I need to be doing,

and I'm living way beneath my privileges. And let me tell you something, if I don't acknowledge the hippo in me, when I look at other people, I'll never give them grace, I'll never give them forgiveness, I'll never give them forgiveness, I'll never give them understanding, I'll never be there to be in their corner to help them because I'm above all that stuff. The moment a leader separates himself or herself from the crowd and I'm here and the people

are there, I've lost my connection with the people. And so it's so important. Let me give you an example. The other day I did a conference. It was a round table. And it wasn't a good day. It wasn't my best day. And I taught that day with an edge. And I don't, my name is John and I'm your friend.

If my name is John and I'm your friend, I don't have an edge, I'm your friend. But that day I should have stood up and said at the beginning, my name is John and I have an edge, I'm your friend. But that day, I should have stood up and said at the beginning, my name is John and I have an edge today. And I'm gonna get you. It's just, I'm gonna talk about several subjects, I'm gonna, you know, just get ready, I'm gonna get you. And so that day, instead of lifting people

like I needed to and like I usually do, I got a little sarcastic, got a little cynical, got a little bit judgmental. Okay, it wasn't enough that everybody was saying, dear God, what's wrong with that man? But it was enough that my inner circle, as soon it was over, pulled me aside and said, John, you spoke with an edge today. as soon as it was over, pulled me aside and said, John, you spoke with an edge today. And I said, give me 24 hours. I gotta go through this now.

I gotta go through this. And I went through it. And they were so right. I wept. I was so sorry. And so I called the leaders of the round table and I said, I need to ask your forgiveness. You brought people to hear me and they didn't

hear the best John Maxwell. They didn't get the eagle version of Maxwell, they got the hippo version of Maxwell. And I did you wrong. Now these were friends of mine, so you know what friends do, they say, oh no, it was fine. Really, honestly, I don't think anybody, they started covering for me because they're friends. I said, no, honestly, I don't thank anybody. They started covering for me because they're friends. I said, no, no, I can't accept it. No, no, listen to me. I don't want, I have no excuses. I'm wrong.

I did this wrong. I said, now the question is too, will you forgive me? Because I'm so sorry. I took advantage of a relationship. I took advantage of influence and I took advantage of you. I'm so sorry.

Will you forgive me?" And after they forgive me, I said, now how do we make it right? I've got to make it right. I can't live with that. Do you think I can let that book close? I said, can I give them a free round table? Can you bring them back where I can apologize to all of them and say, I'm very sorry sorry my name is John and that day I was a hippo and I was in the mud and I got mud on you but if you'll give me another chance today I'll be your friend. My gosh are you that's incredible. Well it's the right thing to do Ed. Ed I let people down. Let me tell you something if leaders will take the perks of leadership they better take the price of leadership too.

There's a price to pay when you're a leader. And the price to pay is the fact that when you're wrong, you have to go make it right. And now I feel such joy in my heart when I think of that conference, because I know that I'm making it right. I'm doing the right thing to do. And now here's what happens.

This is true. I just read this in a study, Ed. When a leader does that, says, I'm sorry, I was wrong. Please forgive me. Wow, I wish I wouldn't have said that. I wish I made that decision. The moment a leader tries to correct and make right what they did wrong,

the trust factor of that leader increases more. Don't miss this. It increases more of that leader increases more. Don't miss this. It increases more in that leader than if the leader would have done nothing wrong at all and had given them a great seminar, they would have walked away and they would have had a trust factor and they would have had a great appreciation factor.

But the fact that you go back and say, I was wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me. In other words, you can do it wrong, but if you do it right, what you did wrong, and fix it, and ask forgiveness, the trust factor even becomes greater. Yes. And I long for leaders of all sizes and shapes. Honestly, when is the last time we've had a leader just

looking at Cameron say, I'm sorry. Yeah. I didn't do it right. Yeah. Well, I wish I could have that call back. I promise you the people would migrate to that leader so fast because they say, now I have a leader that understands. I have a leader that I got that hippo.

He or she has that hippo. We all have hippos. And when we have a hippo, we got to we gotta admit it and get out of the mud. And you can't, you can't stay there. Anyway. That's so good. I, I, by the way, I reflect on that all the time. Why does, why is it not a part of our culture

for someone to just go, hey, I got it wrong. And the fact of the matter, by the way, there's a chapter in the book, everybody, called Be Accountable for Your Actions. And so there's a chapter that fits this in addition to your humanity, Be Accountable for Your Actions. I remember, this is a small example, but they stand out because it's so rare. I remember this college baseball, we're in a very competitive game. We're playing UNLV and we were down by a run in the ninth inning and I was, I had stolen second base.

And I remember thinking, well, you know, there's one out here, base hit drives me in and our coach actually called for me to steal third base, which is probably not the play at that time, right? And so there actually ended up being a pitching change in between when he had given me the signal to steal. So it gave me a chance to walk over. I walked over, I said, coach are you sure? He goes, Eddie you got this, this guy can't throw you out and it's a big big game for our team. Anyway pitcher comes back in, I go to steal third and I get thrown out at third base and this was a coach that I didn't everybody's just a real good leadership lesson. This is a coach that I really had not connected with over a couple years, right? Just he was just okay and I get thrown out and we lose a game. This guy flies out, the game's over and after the game, coach gasses a team up, he goes, hey guys, just want to start out by saying one thing, I blew a call today. That wasn't Eddie's fault, that was not my let's fault,

I shouldn't have called a steal there, it's too big of a risky call, it wasn't fair to Eddie to put him in that position. I got it completely wrong. And I remember looking at him, and by the way, I'm 53 years old. I remember looking at him going, I'm going to run through a wall for this guy. And if he, I'm going to do anything I can for this leader. And to this day, you guys, he and I have stayed in contact of all my coaches. There's two or three in my entire life.

He and I still stay in contact because of that moment where he was accountable for his actions. He acknowledged his humanity and I you'll play you'll do anything for Leo. You guys run in businesses when you got an up when you've made a mistake or things are down that's an opportunity to increase trust by doing exactly what John's described. That is so good. I was speaking for Johnson & Johnson several years ago and they had what they call President's Day where they bring in the presidents of other companies that they partner with during the year. And so I was talking to them about this factor,

and I said to each one of them, I said, you probably need to go home to your team and just share with them some of the areas that you feel you're weak in your leadership. And I could feel, oh, you could feel resistance. I mean, these are all present CEOs of companies. And so in fact, it was kind of tight and it was kind of time for anyway.

So I said, let's take a break. I'll sign some books and kind of breathe a little bit. One CEO stood beside me while I signed books. And when it was done, I turned to him and he said, I really disagree with what you said about letting them know about your weaknesses. And so I listened to him and when he finished, I said, I understand that. I said, but there's something you don't understand.

I said, you don't realize your people already know your weaknesses. They already know them. They talk about them every day. You do understand, don't you, that the people on your team talk about your weaknesses all the time because they see it. I said the reason I said you need to go back and share them with them is to give the team comfort

to know, oh, okay, he does know that. He knows he's not real strong in that area. They already know it, I just want you to let them know that you know it because I said what really bothers team players is when they think their coach doesn't know. I mean, if I think my leader doesn't know, now I get really nervous because I said, what really bothers team players is when they think their coach doesn't know. I mean, if I think my leader doesn't know, now I get really nervous because I think, I don't think it's gonna end up very well

because the leader doesn't see it. I said, the very fact you acknowledge it will then allow them now to not only connect with you, but talk to you about it. And see, that's a big miss. There's a big miss. It's kind of like, oh, I don't think they know that. Oh, trust me.

They got you down. They have you all figured out. They know what you do well. And I tell my team all the time, because I'm 77, Ed. I'm not at the beginning of the runway. I tell my team all the time, you have got to talk to me. You have got to talk to me.

Because how many times do I see people stay too long in the game? Yes. And so if I see people stay too long in the game, what would ever make me think that I'm not going to think I can stay too long? I mean, I'm not that smart. A lot of smart people have stayed on too long. And so the only way I know to fix that is to help my team give them permission, walk into my life, tell me when I was sharp or I had an edge.

And they do it and they do it really well. And what it does for our camaraderie and what it does for our chemistry, it just works because I know they have my back. They're going to help me. I watched him do this, by the way, everybody. I sat on the plane with him and I watched him do this with his team and they do have an unbelievable camaraderie and they are candid with him. The remarkable part of the story you told about the roundtable is not just that you apologize and wanted to make it right. It's that you've created a culture in your own team where they were comfortable immediately telling you, you've got an edge here, that they're not going to be rebuked for candor. And that's often

what leaders do. They rebuke candor and then it's never done again. And he's completely right. I mean, I won't double down on the point, but I can just tell you as a young man in business and I was certainly edgy and that would be being polite. I was certainly more than edgy and I would never acknowledge it. And he's a completely right. Years later, I'll meet people that work with me. They talked about it all the time. In fact, it was magnified because I didn't acknowledge it. And if I'd acknowledged that weakness,

number one, I think its impact would have been reduced. And number two, maybe I'd have gone to work on it. It almost could have been something, it maybe even could have turned into something funny. Like here he goes again, right? But I didn't do it and it became uh it became divisive it separated me from people rather than connected me with people and great leaders like John they connect with people that's just what they do when you're around them John has this

thing in the book I wanted to read this to you because it's a it's a it's a simple thing but I'd like you to discuss it I'll give you what you said and then you talk about it and it's a simple thing, but I'd like you to discuss it. I'll give you what you said and then you talk about it. And it's just accurate. He says, when you're leading people, you need to express your belief in them. I think it's one of the rarest things leaders do. I don't know why, but it's almost like a blind spot for most leaders to say,

let me tell you how much I believe in you and why I believe in you. And when you tell somebody something that is, they intuitively know to be true about them and That you see it you are bonded to them You're one of maybe three people in their entire life if you do that Yes so one is express your belief in them to like John always talks about equip them and Once you've done those two things you can do the third thing which is challenge them

Yeah, too many leaders like to challenge before they've poured the belief and equipped. So I want you to talk about, I think probably, no, I don't think I would say more than anyone in my life, but you do this tremendously well. I never leave your presence where you haven't told me how much you believe in me in a sincere way, by the way, I'm not sitting there going, ah, he's doing that thing again. It's sincere. I just want want you to express I think you're the best I've ever met at this well thank you I do believe in people I and by the way that also makes me happy now you have a candid let me have another hip bone

moment with you that also means that I don't hire people well because in fact I was asked one time what was my most important business decision in hiring? I says, today I quit hiring people and let somebody else do it. Because my belief in people really is a blind spot in hiring. When somebody's hiring somebody, you kind of need some negative

son of a gun over there that is just looking for the problem. And I don't have that in me. And really, so I, that belief is a wonderful thing, but it also, every strength is a weakness. You know that. So we're having, we're having a little fun with that hip moment as far as I don't, I don't hire well, but let me just say this, believing in people doesn't have much strength if it's just words. So when I see people doing word belief, I call it hype. In other words, OK, when are we going to put down the pom poms here?

So it has to be, see, real belief in people is backed by behavior. It isn't what I say to you, although saying it is very affirming. I'm not saying don't say it. I'm saying you've got to back it up with belief. I have a very good friend that's going through a deep, deep, deep, almost unbelievable deep valley right now. He's spent all of unbelievable deep valley right now. He's spent all of his life and he's about to lose

just about everything that he's spent a long time building. I'm very sad about that. And so I'm with him. And I'll tell you what it means is I'm in his corner. I'm not leaving, I'm in his corner. Because I know the good that he has done. He's done a tremendous amount of good. And I am not gonna let it be destroyed

by one stupid mistake. I'm gonna do everything I can to help maintain that legacy for him. Because he has a good legacy. And I think some, so I think belief is more than just, boy, I believe in you. Belief means I'm your friend. And you don't need to, I tell people, all right, if I'm your friend, you don't need to look around.

I'm in your corner, I'm there, I'm not moving. I haven't moved. I'm not moving on good days, I'm not moving on bad days either, I'm not moving. And I think that, I call it belief mixed with unconditional love. And when you put the two of those things together, two of the three that my father gave me

when I graduated from college, you put two of those three things together, two of the three that my father gave me when I graduated from college, you put two of those three things together, I think now you strengthen. And then what I tell people all the time is, behavior is never experienced until difficult times. My behavior during good times is just like everybody's behavior. What separates is the bad times, the dark times,

the difficult times. That's when people leave. That's when people are no longer there on the scene. And that's where I've always said leaders run to the fire. They don't run from the fire. They run to it. And every time I go express and love by behavior a belief in somebody and I'm there during that difficult time for them, and you know what? I'll have to say there's some selfishness to it. In my life, I'm gonna have some of those difficult times,

too, and I want them there. I need them. I need them. Let me just say one other thing about belief. I think leaders don't say often enough, Ed, to their people, I need you. I need you. I love telling my people how much I need them.

I love telling my people that if I didn't have them, I wouldn't be here, and this wouldn't have happened. I love letting them know that what they did made as big a difference as what they think when I go in and do my part. And to say I need you is a high, high compliment. It's like you ask a person their opinion. What a high compliment when you say, what do you think about this?

You talk about giving net value to a person. That is absolutely life changing. Can I say one more thing? Just one more thing on this. I try to add value to people, which is high road leaders. High road leaders add value, not take it away. But there's a difference between adding value and appreciating value. Adding value is general. I just add value by trying to be kind and do the right thing.

But once you know a person well, now you begin to add value to them in the area where it counts for them. And that is appreciate. Now, all of a sudden, adding value is adding, but appreciating value is multiplying. And once I see after our two days in Mexico, I know how to appreciate value to you now.

I can add value to you, but I know how to appreciate value to you now. I know what you care about, what you love, what's important to you, what you're passionate about. And then you find that, and then you say, okay, that's what he loves, that's what she cares for. Okay, Now, what am I going to do in that area? And the moment I get in your sweet spots now, I'm not adding value to you. I'm appreciating value. It's, it's going through the roof. Does that make sense? Well, I just watch it with you. Yes. I mean, I, uh,

this is such a remarkable conversation because as you're talking about these lessons, I have watched you do it. We should spend a couple of days in Mexico together, John and I did, and without getting real emotional talking about it, I told my wife when I got back, I think I got 10 years, more than 10 years worth of growth out of those two days. And it was in recent memory, no no beyond recent memory, in any memory of mine the most I've felt appreciated and grown at the same time, maybe in my life. And he has this amazing ability guys to make you feel like a million bucks but

the same time add value. We were talking, you know, he and I both speak so some of the things we were talking about was that world and details of it and watching how much John writes. He writes every day, every single day he writes and I mean I don't want to be personal but he says, hey give me a topic you want to talk and he pulls his lap, that's 600 talks, like 600, is that the right number? It was hundreds, I remember right on his lap, I'm like, it's ridiculous, only old people can do that, only old people, it takes a lot of time. Well, also no, but also that he would share it. John shares.

He wants to add value. He's not afraid to tell you he need a lot of leaders won't say I need you because they think that you'll take advantage of it. That's how they think. Or if I share with you what I'm doing, then you'll do it better than me. And John literally said to me, I share this stuff with you

because you'll take it. You'll make it better. Yes, that's right. That's about take it. You'll make it better. Yes, that's right. That's about adding value. That's huge. That's what's what's really huge. Am I in this for me or am I in this for people? If I'm in

this for people, I want the best product for the people. So, when I give you something I have done Ed, you're going to make it better because you have gifts that I don't have. You have experiences I don't have. You have stories I don't have, you have perspectives I don't have. So what is beautiful is when you give something

to somebody like a talk or whatever and say, it's yours. Their foundation doesn't start there, it starts up here because you've already raised the level, but then what happens Ed, you keep growing. So to me, anything I have you can have, because what you take and when you give it, whether it's in a book or in a talk, it'll be better than I ever gave it,

because I was the first. A pioneer knows, a pioneer knows, they go break ground. But they also know the people who come behind them will do better. And they want them to do better. What kind of a pioneer would I be if I went out and found the land and came back and blocked it off and didn't want anybody else to find the land and just kind of

held it for myself. Now that's a kind of a small world, but you're exactly right. I do genuinely want people to take what I have and make it better and it's there. It's okay. It's okay. And guys, by the way, because you know I'm such a fan of his work, everything he's saying is in the book. So the last chapter, desire the best for others. That's exactly what he's doing when he does these. He lives these things. Okay, a couple more things. This is one of the most remarkable because we freelance this today, guys, just so you know, because we have this thing where we know, you you know Holy Spirit's present and just it goes crazy when you and I visit. I there's one thing you have in there that I was

surprised was in there but I'm glad that it is and that is that high road leaders don't keep score. Yeah. And I want you to talk about that because there's there's a other playbook where people go I'm putting that chip on my shoulder, and I'm going to use that somehow as leverage to some extent. But I want you to talk about that. Well, I think of all the things in that book, I think that's the most interesting chapter. Because I think a lot of people are transactional

and they keep score. And somebody said, where did you learn that? Well, I learned that because I had somebody that I looked up to keep score on me. Oh, really? And one day, I made a decision he didn't like. And he said, how could you make that decision after all I've done for you? And all of a sudden, I realized, oh my gosh,

Arnold keeps score. I didn't know that. I thought we had a relationship that didn't keep score. And then what happens? I'm in the hole. I mean, of course he's done a lot for me. So now I can't catch up. And it begins to think of, OK, he did this for me.

I did this for me. So I think keeping score is great for games. I think it's terrible for life. I don't keep score with Margaret. I don't keep score. And the reason I don't keep score is what kind of a marriage is it? I said, Margaret, let me explain something.

You remember two weeks ago when you did that. And because you did that, that isn't a marriage. Now why don't we just get a table and have a negotiating time here? There's no love there. There's no care there. There's no compromise there. There's no, oops, I'm sorry, I can be patient here.

And so therefore I think that keeping score makes us transactional when we should be transformational. And there's a world, there's a transactional person who is always looking for the edge. I got to win here. And by the way, let me tell you something. I don't even like to win and have the other person lose. If I can't win with the other person winning, I really, what, I mean, where's the joy? Oh, well, I, you know, I got, I did a good deal and I'm going to lose a couple million, but I'm going to get that. And I mean, where's the, and by the way, if you come to the table

and you lose once, and I say, come back to the table, you don't wanna come back to the table. Why would you come back to the table with me? Because all you have is the fact that the last time I took from you. And so I have, I think high road leaders, they want more for their people than from their people. And I think there's a big difference from that.

And if I can't help the other person win, honestly, I'm not interested in the game. I'm not because my goal isn't to win. My goal, I mean, who wants to cross the finish line alone? I wanna cross the finish line with you, Ed. I wanna cross the, everybody on your podcast, I want you to be at the finish line alone. I want to cross the finish line with you, Ed. I want to cross the, everybody on your podcast, I want you to be at the finish line with me. I don't want you to be in the stands cheering.

I don't need cheerleaders. I want you to be in the game with us and let's cross it together. And I just think that it is a very fulfilling, significant life when you don't have to always win. And when you say, no, I think it's their turn. I think I want them to get a win under their belt right now. And there's something very beautiful about that spirit.

And of course, I'm a Christ follower again. I know there are, oh my gosh, there are dozens of Jesus illustrations I can say where he didn't win. He didn't have to fight for himself, didn't have to jump up, there are dozens of Jesus illustrations I can say where he didn't win. He didn't have to fight for himself, didn't have to jump up and down and say,

no, I'm right, don't you know who I am? I am the son of God. I mean, excuse me, this is not even territory here. No, he had the ability to love unconditionally and sometimes walk away. And I think it's very important. When people come to me I want them to say he adds value to me not I wonder what he wants from me.

Wow. I don't like that. Yet at the same time in the book you do talk about being conscious a high road leader will give more than they take. Yes. Here's the difference. I don't keep score but I do keep track. Okay. Oh this is good. If I keep score I'm in it to win and I will find a way to win. That's wrong. What I want to do is I want to keep track and what I mean by keep track is I want to be very conscious of what people have done for me and I want to make sure that it's not a one-way street because relationships don't work if marriages don't work it's not a one-way street because relationships don't work, marriages don't work if it's a one-way relationship. One day the person doing all the giving says,

I'm tired of doing all the giving and they're doing all the taking. So I keep track, which means I'm very conscious of people that have helped me and added value. And I'm always asking myself, what can I say to them? What can I do for them that lets them know that I'm not a friend along for a ride? You know, when I'm in South Florida,

I'm a teaching pastor for Christ Felt Ship. That's a big church, 30, 40,000 people anyway. Which, and I only do it three or four times a year because I don't have any time. But I told my two dear friends, the founder and the lead pastor, I said, guys, it's very simple. Give me your garbage days. Give me your, I mean, give me the Sunday,

you know, Memorial Day weekend, okay, Labor Day weekend. You follow me. How about right after, you know, right before New Year? I mean, when everybody's gone, just give me your garbage days. In fact, Margaret was laughing one day, she said, John, she said, you've come a long way in your career. When you were a senior pastor, you

used to give the staff the garbage days. Now that's what you do, the garbage days. But listen very carefully. Every year, Ed, I sit down with Tom and Todd, and we have a lunch, and I resign. I said, guys, I need to resign now off of this. I'm 77. You need to get somebody younger, better, faster,

smarter than me. So let me just, it's good. I love you. It's my church, but I resign. And every year, they don't let me resign. But let me tell you something. I am never going to stay on the team because of a friendship. If I'm on the team, I'm adding value,

and I'm giving more than I'm taking. Or I'm not going to be on the team, I'm adding value and I'm giving more than I'm taking. Or I'm not going to be on the team. Because I think sometimes people take friendship. I think people take advantage of friendship. I think sometimes we're on the team and we're saying, well, you know, I'm not really producing for ed like I need to, but we're friends. We're good friends. We're really good friends.

And I'm sitting there, I'm saying, being good friends and producing isn't the same thing. Hey, you can be good friends and quit. You can still be good friends. We're really good friends. And I'm sitting there, I'm saying, being good friends and producing isn't the same thing. Hey, you can be good friends and quit. You can still be good friends. But don't take advantage of friendship. And I think, again, high road leaders, they keep track. So they're never going to take advantage of friendship, but they don't keep score. Very good. Very good. There's a difference. Very good. All right. I got two questions left. As usual, I sit here, I don't, I forget we're in an interview. I'm just talking to someone.

Because we're friends, we're talking. But it's just, it's just also so good. So this is probably the hardest question of the interview though. And I even debated whether to ask it because I think the answer is so difficult. But I want to hear your answer. So how do you nuance people say, you know, a leader should take a stand for what they believe in? You and I have actually talked about this together. So I'm just curious what your thoughts are on this yet. take a stand about something that you're passionate about that you that knowingly will alienate a group of people you're charged with leading. Right. So there's something I'm passionate about. So I'd like to take a stand for it. But the same time, as a leader, don't I have an obligation not to alienate or offend people who I want to believe in and challenge and equip at the same time. And I think that that's, you know, in my own case, there are people that I used to work with that I just no longer do because they got so crazy about stances on them, I mean that they justifiably believed in deeply,

but that I just didn't need or want from them in that environment. I needed their leadership and their vision and their equipping and their belief more than I needed their opinion about this thing, yet at the same time leaders stand for something. So, hard question. That's a good question. First of all, leaders should stand for things. If you're not standing for things as a leader, you're not a leader. I mean, how, you're pointing a picture, you're showing people a direction to go. So, a leader that stands for nothing is a leader.

I mean, they're just in the crowd somewhere. So standing for something is essential in leadership. But what is more essential is valuing the people. So here's the way I say it. When you stop loving your people, you should stop leading your people. Because I'll start to manipulate you now, start to take advantage. So when you and I disagree on something,

which you and I, we'd have this, my gosh, we wouldn't agree on everything. It has nothing to do with friendship, but we wouldn't agree on anything. This is very simple, very simple. I've got to make sure, first of all, that you know how much I love you and care for you. And here's how I let you know that.

I look at you and I, if I unconditionally love you, I love you and care for you. And here's how I let you know that. I look at you and I, if I unconditionally love you, I love you regardless of what you think or what side you're on or what your political stance is or what your belief is. I just love you. And that doesn't change. There's nothing that can change or keep me from loving you and valuing you.

Nothing. There's anything you can say, there's anything you can do. Once I've established that relationship of unconditional love, I've done that with my kids. My kids know. My kids haven't made every decision I would approve of. And I tell them, I said, unconditional love doesn't mean I approve of everything, it just means that whatever you do, I still love you unconditionally.

And so once they have that environment of unconditional love around them, then absolutely I can give my opinion. And by the way, unconditional love lets them give their opinion too, even though they know that isn't gonna be what mine is. And so the miss is this, when we love the issue more than we love the person,

we're in trouble. I don't love any issue. There's no issue I don't love more than the person themselves. And once I establish I love you because I love you, Perry, because God created you in the story, now we can work on issues all the time. And by the way, we will work on issues all the time. And by the way, we will work on issues all the time

because I'm safe to you. At a safe environment, a safe environment is essential. My mother, my mother unconditionally loved each one of us as children. She was so safe. I mean, when I got into trouble as a kid, I went to my mom. I mean, you don't usually go to a parent. You go to a friend and say, oh dear, I screwed up.

I go to mom because I knew mom loved me unconditionally. And that creates a safe environment. Then, what I say then, once you have that safe environment to live in, now start leading. Start leading, lay out what you think, and it gets better. But you've got to love the person more than the issue. Oh my gosh, guys, I would write that word safety down. It's one of the words leaders don't emphasize, don't think about, don't focus.

And I think it's the fundamental, that you create a safe environment. By the way, sometimes it's a little thing, like some of you guys that used to show up on time when you were younger and as the company got bigger and you've made more money, now you show up later and later, that creates a lack. There's little things that your presence, your love, your belief, your structure, your equipping, create safety. That's the underlying message that's being sent

is we're safe here. And then you can explode and do anything you want from a safe place. Okay, last question. This is just about you, because I wanna ask you stuff. Do you care about your own legacy as a leader? And if you do, what do you want it to be?

Wow, well, yeah. I care about what I value. Jack Welch and I had a conversation before he passed away that was life changing to me. He said to me something that I had never thought before and it was kind of like, oh, this is gonna help me. Of course, he was CEO for many years of General Electric. He said, John, don't put your legacy in an organization,

put it in people. He said organizations over time, they just change. Don't put your legacy in an organization. Put it in people. He said organizations, over time, they just change. Different people lead them for different reasons and different agendas. But he said, put it in people. In fact, that was probably the motivating talk that got me started with my coaching company, which we have the

largest coach in the world, is I said, I want to develop coaches that I can put my legacy into. But what, so when people ask me, what I want my legacy, here I want my legacy to be two things. I want people that knew me. I would, you know, when I say my name is John, I'm your friend, that probably should go on my tombstone.

Yes. My name's John, I'm your friend. It's that simple. It's, I'm not complicated, I'm a very go on my tombstone. My name's John. I'm your friend. It's that simple. I'm not complicated. I'm a very simple person anyway. The second thing I want is that in this life, I added value to leaders who multiplied value to others. I want my legacy to be in the leadership lane

because multiplication begins there. If you can change a leader, you can change people's massive amount of people. But so it's in the heart, it's in my heart and it's in the heart of my people. And I honestly think that when I die, I'll never die to be honest with you. I think that the principle and the truth will still live and those values will still go on.

But as far as John Maxwell, the person, I'm not interested in that at all. I have no desire to have museums or anything like that. I don't know that stuff. I want it to be in the values of the heart. I want it to. That's where transformation starts in caring for people. Every day, this is very simple, I wake up and say, what a life I have. And that transformation starts in caring for people.

Every day, this is very simple, I wake up and say, what a life I have. Today I get to intentionally add value to people. And it's that simple. It's to the single mom waitress that I'm gonna give a big tip to because $100 is important to her. In fact, I tell people that when you're blessed like you and I are,

I want to tell you something right now. What's little to us is big to others. So we better make what's little to us big. And if we do that, we're constantly, I got a picture. I was playing golf the other day at Highlands. I got to get you up to high. I got to get constantly, I got a picture. I was playing golf the other day at Highlands. I got to get you up to Highhampton. I got to get you, it's a great golf course.

And Tom Fosard, and there were seven beautiful brothers that were doing all the hard work and raking and doing all the work. And I went over to him. I said to the guys, I was already on the, I was already on the green. I said, give me a two-part, I'm on the green. And I hung with them for three minutes just to talk to them

how nice the course looked because of them and how much I appreciated that. And I gave them a couple hundred bucks and said, go out to lunch on me. And I wanted to know how much God loved them and how much I loved him. And so what's interesting is when my group came back over there, the guys, they wanted a picture.

And man, I have the best picture of my arm around about seven of these beautiful brothers. And OK, that's what counts in life. If I don't do that privately, I don't want you to hear me publicly because there's no gravitas or moral authority in what I say publicly if I don't live that life privately. And he does, you guys. He does. I'm picturing him doing that because I've seen things similar to that with John many times. Just how he interacts with the server or...

Well I won't tell you. Andrew, you got the picture? Give me my camera or give me... I'm having a charge. Go ahead, close it up Ed. I want to see it. I want to show this picture. Let me just say this to you. You're going to show us this picture at the end if you're on YouTube everybody, but I got to tell you this. The book is called High Road Leadership. The author of the book embodies that more than anybody that I have ever met.

And the subtitles bringing people together in a world that divides. I hope this conversation today did and there's a picture. We can see it. It's reflected. There it is. There it is. There he is with the guys. It's right there. I hope they had a good lunch. Somebody says, I hope you had a good golf round. I had a good golf round because I did this. I'm better.

Hey, Ed, I'm better at this than I am at golf. I can vouch for that. I love you, John. Today's conversation. I wish we could have John on every week. This would be so easy. Love you, Ed. I love you.

All right, God bless you, everybody. Max out, share this episode. This is the Ed Myron Show.