THE ED MYLETT SHOW - Pink CEO Reveals Billion Dollar Company Secret w/ Cindy Eckert

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

IT’S TIME TO “THINK PINK” ON THIS WEEK’S EPISODE! Cindy Eckert is a DEAR FRIEND, and has become an important ANGEL INVESTOR, SERIAL ENTREPRENEUR, WOMEN’S HEALTH ADVOCATE, AND A VISIONARY HEALTH TECH CEO. Whether you’re a man or a woman, if you’ve ever had even the faintest glimmer of walking away from your current job and starting your own company, you’re going to absolutely LOVE Cindy Eckert’s story and what you can LEARN from her. You’re all familiar with what Viagra does for men, but I’ll bet not too many of you know Cindy is the one who got FDA approval for Addyi, the first drug designed to enhance female libido. After FDA approval, she sold her company, Sprout Pharmaceuticals, to Valeant for a cool $1 BILLION. It wasn’t her first company sale either, having previously sold another start-up for $500 MILLION. Here's the fascinating part of Cindy’s story. As part of a lawsuit settlement against Valeant, she reacquired Sprout and the rights to Addyi for next to nothing after Valeant’s stock collapsed by 80% due to insider trading and price manipulation allegations. People like Cindy can’t sit still for very long. So, she launched a “PINKUBATOR” and a VC/consulting firm called the PINK CEILING as a way of leveling the start-up and entrepreneurial environment for women. Cindy has a wealth of KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE you're going to want to tap into. In our ENERGETIC interview, Cindy and I talk quite a bit about the DNA required to be an entrepreneur, how to overcome INEVITABLE SETBACKS, and the MINDSET you need to have in a start-up company, Most important of all, Cindy stresses that to be successful as an entrepreneur, everyone in your company has to have “SKIN IN THE GAME.” We also get into the need for establishing the right CORPORATE CULTURE and why treating customers like GOLD is one of the foundational keys to SUCCESS. If you’re an owner, CEO, or you have management responsibilities where you work, Cindy’s INSIGHTS on finding, hiring, and managing people is something you must hear. Those of you who are ENTREPRENEURS searching for more CAPITAL for your business need to pay particular attention to what Cindy looks for when she's investing in someone's business. Cindy may be well known for the PINK outfits she wears every day, but her advice is TRUE BLUE, and you owe it to yourself to hear what she has to say. Be sure to grab pen and a notepad and take a lot of notes for this one.   👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈  → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ← ▶︎ INSTAGRAM ▶︎ FACEBOOK  ▶︎ LINKEDIN ▶︎ TWITTER ▶︎ WEBSITE  

This is the Ed Milach Show. Well, welcome back to the program, everybody. Just curious, do you have any interest in ever like building a company you could sell for around a billion dollars? Any of you? Does that sound interesting to you? Because if it does, I have one of the few people on Earth who in the last decade or so has actually done that.

And as one of the top entrepreneurs on the planet, she's a friend of mine. But what's extra special is her ability to articulate the details and tactics that are required to build something special. Makes her very unique. She's someone you're going to want to follow on social media and she's someone you're going to learn a great deal from today. So Cindy Eckert, thank you for being here today. That's a hell of an introduction Ed. And actually when you ask if there's anyone who wants to sell their business for a billion dollars, I raise my hand too. I'm willing to do it again. We want to do it again. I am willing to do it with you as I told you before we started.

So let me know. I'm willing to do it too. So what I, there's so much to your story and I know it. I'm going to pretend to not know some things today so I can ask some questions. But there's so much we have limited time. So I kind of want to jump a little bit in the middle sort of when we start. And we're just guys,

we're going to go through so many different keys. Her story is going to blow you away. If you're on audio, you're missing her customary pink outfit today, which is a part of her brand, which is something we will discuss today. If you're on YouTube watching this, obviously you can see this.

So all right, let's talk from it. So you worked for kind of a big company for a while. Yeah. Then you went smaller, then you went smaller, then you did your own. And I think there's a lot of people out there in the corporate world listening to this right now that have that entrepreneurial itch, that thing. And I don't think they realize you're sort of getting paid to learn right now if you're at a big firm, hopefully learning some things. So, discuss that journey from the big company a little bit to the start-up phase of your life. Absolutely.

So, look, I think I was conditioned very conventionally, right? When I got out of school, I needed to work for Fortune's Most At Myord Company. Like, I actually explicitly picked the company I wanted to work for because they were Fortune's Most At Myord Company thinking I'll get the best training and I can go in there I actually explicitly picked the company I wanted to work for because they were fortunate most of my company, thinking I'll get the best training and I can go in there and I can climb the ladder. And I think that, you know, I talked to a lot of students today

and I say, don't treat your career like a ladder, treat it like a jungle gym and swing toward those things that are gonna stretch you, that are gonna excite you. It, I lucked out that while I was there, not only was I recognizing that I was number, you know, 4,345 from an employee, and nobody was listening to all of my great ideas, Ed. And I had a big brother who it was the moment in time of the .com kind of boom and tech. And he went to this mysterious thing called a startup.

I never heard of such a thing before. And I'm watching my big brother who's constantly changing his job. Like every six months, he has more responsibility in this business. And I'm thinking, wow, like he's never done that before he's getting to do that. And he has this crazy thing called equity

or you know, skin in the game. And I'm like, they listen to my brother. He he has this crazy thing called equity or you know skin in the game. And I'm like, they listen to my brother. He constantly gets to try new things. And he's going to get a piece of this. What is this special place? And really that informed my decision. I got a chance. They went public, you know, it was the thing to do in the early 90s. It is again, that's the trend. But when they went public, I got a chance to participate in friends and family. I had no money. No money.

So I thought, I saved everything. I ate rice for a whole year. Like I paid a buck for lunch every day for a year. I'm saving every little nickel and dye my can. I still don't have much money to put in, but they felt sorry for the little sister and let me do it. And I made 4x my money that time.

And I was like, by, by corporate, by what is this thing? And I basically started the chase for more responsibility, places where I would be heard and skin in the game. And so I went to a company that was, I laughed today, it was hardly a start-up, there were 400 people at it, but I had stock options and that met that criteria. And that was the begin of that chase

to finally, where I was learning to your point in all those environments, often things that you never wanna do, right? You learn too. It basically, I paid my dues long enough that I thought, you know what? I can do this. I can do this. Do you think everyone,

so it's really interesting. It sounds to me like you'd kinda chase this corporate dream. It really, you weren't being educated necessarily to go become an entrepreneur. It's the stuff with learning about your brother and the equity and all these other things. I'm interested to know your insight on this because my answers have changed over time. I don't even know what I believe anymore.

Do you think everybody should be an entrepreneur at some point in their life? Or do you think there's a particular perclivity tolerance for stress and chaos in somebody that not everybody has. Oh, I think it's the latter. I don't think everybody has it. It's not like, by the way, that's not bad. That's just being self-aware. And I think unless you have that DNA of insatiable curiosity and really extreme risk tolerance, you will be miserable. By the way, that even includes people who come work for me.

It is a final step in my interviewing process. I really sit down and I'm like, okay, all the cards on the table. This is my responsibility. I'm gonna tell you exactly what this environment is gonna be like and you can sit here right now and say to me, I'm out. Like, there's no way because we don't, you know, I don't want them to make a decision where they're going to be unhappy. I don't want to be unhappy because they didn't fit. And I really do

think there's something about the pace with which you move as an entrepreneur and that willingness to ride the roller coaster and put your hands in the air that not everybody enjoys. Do you think so and we're going to go to where you went and what happened in a second, but do you think the thing you said about skin in the game though, I don't think you have to necessarily be entrepreneurial to get skin in the game. So I want to talk about that for a minute. Do you believe in even in your business now, finding someone who's not got that risk tolerance, they're not entrepreneurial, but you need them in your company.

Are you sort of delving out a little bit of the skin in the game to people in your own businesses, and do you believe that people that may not have that spirit should still be looking for it? And this will be the most important thing for everybody listening to this right now. This is my success factor. I got to selling two businesses the last for a billion dollars, because everyone who came on the ride with me got skin in the game. factor. I got to selling two businesses the last for a billion dollars because everyone who came on the ride with me got skin in the game. That is absolutely the most important thing you can do as a leader. Be it you know building whatever company you're building, people who come and work alongside of you give them a

piece of it. They will make decisions differently. They are owners of the destiny. They wake up earlier. They go to bed later. They spend your money, the company money, like it is their own. And by the way, they also hold all their peers accountable. All of a sudden, you're in an environment in which it's not, you know, me sort of looking down, trying to impose that kind of performance. Your peers are looking at you, like, hey, man, when we cross this finish line, you're going to have pulled your weight. Because I own a piece of this, you own a piece of this, and I will tell you, I think that has been honestly the single most important thing I've done. Yeah, everybody, I was one of the best

pieces of advice ever on the show. And when I intro to you, I meant what I said, you have this incredible ability to articulate these insights that you can only have if you have her experience. And I totally, by the way, agree with that. And since my first few ventures where I wasn't in control of that, that's been one of my benchmarks and anything I'm involved with is, can I spread the skin around for reasons you said, but you've added to them better than I would have said it. So totally agree. So because there's so much to this woman's brain, I consider her a bit of a, I wouldn't call it a prodigy because she's learned these things,

but I will use the word brilliant. Having watched her speak about these things, I will use the word brilliant through experience. And so the things she talks about aren't theoretical. They've been applied and worked. That's what's different. From most people you're gonna hear anywhere else. So we're gonna fast forward a little bit

and maybe we'll go backwards eventually, I don't know, but we'll fast forward. Just so everybody knows, if you don't know, you're gonna learn about this, but she ended up being involved in what was sort of a female sexual health product, female version of Viagrara ends up being their business. Sprout pharmaceuticals ends up being sold to these guys for a whole bunch of money.

I'll give you the kicker in a little bit here of what happened after that, but I want to go into the middle of that journey now. So, because there's so many, I think most people that get in entrepreneur ships, Cindy, I think they think I know I'm going to have roadblocks. I know there's going to be these setbacks. I don't think they're equipped for the literal slam to the pavement or out of business probably moments that are probably inevitable before the breakthrough, right? Like as bad as you think it's gonna get, it could get so much worse, right?

So much worse, so much worse. It's crying in the corner worse, Yes. Right. It really is. Yeah. And you've had a few of those moments. So let's you end up kind of, find this doctor. He's got this unbelievable idea. She buys in her heart changes to be this champion for women's sexual health because no one else is really talking about it. It's mission driven, which we'll get to in a minute. But you got this thing rolling and and you're gonna probably try to do something now to have someone with a little bit more capital, take it to a different level, maybe exit it, take them through sort of that time in your life, because I think this is the best story I've ever heard. But I'm in your life.

Oh my God, there's so many of those moments, by the way, with my face being like on the pavement, because the first, when I was going through this, I was beholden to the FDA who rejected me, who by the way, when that came through, they completely controlled my fate. So the business was over, except that I decided to fight them. Explain this. You got to tell them this part of the story,

because it's unbelievable. Because you literally can't go forward without this FDA approval. Sorry. So take them through the rejection part of that a little bit. Oh, I got to tell you. So look, science, you know, scientific pathways are pretty straight forward. You meet specific endpoints, like these are outcomes you've agreed on with the FDA, right? It's geeky science, blah, blah, blah. So I've done all the work, I've met all the endpoints, and I'm just sitting here waiting for them to do the review and give me the approval. And so we had a date, there's always a date you're going to get your

acceptance and I had happened to fly out so I was flying in that day. Like my team is sitting in the office chill in the champagne. Our day is here, we've done all the studies, we've met all these outcomes, like here it comes. And I land in the airport, and my assistant calls me, and she says, hey, we just got a note from the FDA, we got turned down. It was just like boom. And it was so, I couldn't believe I was blindsided, blindsided based on the data. And I sat down in the airport airport and I really didn't move.

And I was just sitting there mostly upset by how many people I just let down. Women I was fighting for, people who'd bet on me and give me money, people who had gone on this ride with me and put blood, sweat, and tears into it as my team, it just was overwhelming. So I got picked myself up, I had to go into the office, I walked into the office and it's like festive, right?

Everyone's like walking around. I call everybody around the table and they're like, around the table giddy. And I just dropped the bomb. We just got turned down by the FDA. Go home and work on your resumes. I mean, I wasn't quite, I was, I was tearful. They were shocked.

No one knew what to do. I stood in the office. I waited to every single car was out of the parking lot and I like collapsed in tears. And over the course of that weekend, my good fortune is that while I was avoiding all the phone calls, because what was I going to say? What was I going to say to my shareholder? What was I going to say to everybody else? I didn't have any

answers. I went back and read all the emails from patients from women who were struggling with this who had written me. And I was reminded of the purpose, right? I was reminded why I did this in the first place, and it actually made me have complete clarity on what I was gonna do. And so on a Monday, so it was a Friday, it was a really bad weekend. On Monday, I called the team back in around the table,

very different mood. They're coming up to the table, like waiting to know how many days till the doors are closing, and I said, we're going to dispute the FDA. I love this. And no one spoke. And my IT guy finally was like, he raised his hand.

And he's like, um, can you do that? And I said, we're about to find out. And he literally put pink boxing gloves on my desk the next morning. And they sit there to this day. We did the craziest thing. We fought the government for women's sexual pleasure, but it was the difference between me letting everyone down and letting myself down by the way,

for not seeing it all the way through, for not taking it to the mat, or really challenging what wasn't just. It's amazing. All of the decisions Cindy,, you made running that company day to day decisions. Who to hire? We're to deploy capital. What marketing campaign to do? All of those decisions that a lot of entrepreneurs can relate to those decisions.

It sounds hokey because you know, there's a phrase, but it really is true that in our lives, in our moments of deepest decision, our destiny is shaped. It's not corny. And of all of the decisions that has to be the most critical decision that you arrived at in your career was, we're going to fight this because otherwise the doors are closed. People start bailing. Now you're taking water on deck.

So that's that and I want everyone to get this lesson. And if you disagree, please tell me. The lesson here is that if you're an entrepreneur and you're backs up against the wall, literally in this case, was thrown through the wall. You're no longer even in the room, right? Back was not against the wall. They said, you're now out of the room. This place does not exist. The thing that's going to hold you together is your cause, is your crusade, is your mission, is your purpose. That is the thing. It's not going to be your, well, we got this talk to go, you'll figure that stuff out.

But if you're like, I'm almost out right now. If you're listening to this, you better go back to your purpose and your cause, true or false. A hundred percent true. And, you know, I didn't go into the full story, but in one of those emails, a woman had seen the news flip that we were rejected,

and she wrote me and she said, I wanna talk to you. And you know what? I would have been willing to talk to anybody, but somebody inside of my company that weekend, because I didn't have any answers. And I thought, I'm going to go meet her and I drove hours to go meet her. And I sat with her and she basically looked at me and said, this is ruining my life, struggling with this. And she actually said something to me that has stuck with me to this day. She said, I have succeeded in every aspect

of my life other than this. And what I saw is a woman who was struggling with something, she'd raised her hand a million times, asked for help. She had been padded on the shoulder and told her, told like, it's OK. Have a glass of wine, have a bubble bath. Everything will be fine and dismissed. And she was who I was fighting for. And I really, in that moment, was so clear, like, I will not let her down. And I think your point is so true. If you're on, if you work on something, whatever your business is, there is some

driver at the core, right, in your heart for why you show up, why you pull the sheets off every day and you go get this done, you've got to stay really in touch with that every step of the way. What's amazing is that you've told that story obviously more than once in your life, and yet still when you tell it, I'm watching you, it impacts you emotionally. It impacts me when you say it. I really think about the gift she gave me in that moment and really like how much it resonated with me, even just the human to human here on those moments in which we're struggling with something, right?

And we need a champion. And like, are we going to be the champion for ourselves? I mean, you did an outstanding post. I'm a huge fan, obviously, and follow, you know, follow all of your pearls of wisdom on social. And you did a post the other day about mental health. And I loved it. And I loved it because you said, so many of us struggle with things.

We don't speak about it because of shame and stigma. Like if we're struggling with something of physical health, no problem. We'll talk about it, right? That's socially acceptable. I'm going to just say to you, sexual health is the other leg of that stool. Mental health, physical health, sexual health.

It's so stigmatized. It's embarrassing to bring up if you're struggling. But you know what? It's a huge part of how we are in a move through this life and our happiness and our partner and connection to people. So I loved that you posted about that. Thank you. It's interesting you say that.

I made another post the other day about, I'm gonna get this thing wrong, gosh darn it, I'm gonna mess this up, but it's such a critical part of people's lives. And I don't think I've ever had an appreciation for how deeply it affects many women. And I don't know why that's getting me emotional right now, but I made a joke the other day on my social because I was ill and I said, okay, guys, I'm done. I've watched Netflix. And I said, not just the movie. I think I've watched all of Netflix, right? But I started getting, this is what's

interesting, Cindy. I just want to say it's more for me and you than anybody else, but I think the audience will understand how deeply this is an issue still in our culture. And I'm talking with women here specifically, although of course it affects men, but we hear about that with the sea allises and the fiat grids and the different treatments they can have and the mental changes and all these treatment centers. And so I start getting all these messages from people recommending shows on Netflix to me. Oh, interesting. And I'm going to mess the name of the show up.

Everybody just forgive me. But most of you are going to know what I'm talking about. I received literally over a thousand messages from women. My following is more women than men, ironically, saying you got to watch. I think it's called sex life or something like that on Netflix. You know what I'm talking about the show, but it was that, man, I started to watch it. It's probably not completely my jam, but I watch it and it told me how much that, the thinking about it to struggle,

the wanting more intimacy, the wanting to be able to want it. Yes, wanting to want it. Wanting to want it, right? Is so prevalent with women in our culture. And so speaking of culture, I'm curious for you, how big a part and getting, by the way, spoiler alert, we'll get there. She ends up getting approval, she ends up selling the sink for a gargantuan chunk of change. Lots of people benefited from it.

And there's another kicker coming in a minute that's going to blow your mind. But you had to build something special. It wasn't just the cause. It wasn't just that the product we could be effective. It was also some other elements. I want to pick those apart. Culture. Like does everyone in that company bleed pink like you do in terms of the mission? And how did you get them to do that? Oh, unbelievably. I have a joke that sometimes we go up the elevator, you know, with other people in our building, in our building, and they're like, do you all have to wear pink?

And I was in an elevator one time with a group of my team, and like they were asking the team, like, more or less, does this woman make you all wear pink? And they're like, no, like pink is who we are. I mean, pink is representative to us emblematic, if you will, of everything that we're about, right? Power in the hands of women. And I think for me, pink was born out of a lot of stereotype

and misconception, right? I reject the notion that pink or femininity is weakness. I think it is a strength in the boardroom. And I think that perspective is an important one. So I think it is about the mission. It's about picking people when they come in to interview who I think, let's face it. I think for anybody listening, if you've built an organization,

you're building a team, probably by the time they get to your desk, they're abundantly qualified, right for this position. It's really that it factor, right? Are they so emotionally connected to this mission? Like, do they really, is that what's going to drive them on this? And I think, you know, I've been so fortunate to be surrounded by the most incredible people. When we started, we didn't say like, hey, you know, let's get a billion dollar product to the market. We started by saying we are going to change the conversation about women and sex forever.

Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever.

Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. Forever. it. And that's what we did. And you know, to your point, there are 26, 26 FDA approved drugs for some form of male sexual dysfunction. We were the first ever for women. So amazing. By the way, when we broke through, there was no such thing as a category called FEMTEX. So what's FEMTEX, you know, products that uniquely impact women and no such category, it was coined the year after we approved. In the next 48 months, guess how big a category it's going to be?

50 billion. Wow. You tell me there wasn't an unmet need sitting there and latent demand. And I'm so proud of that revolution. And that's what drove my team. That piece of the revolution is really. The product was fabulous and it's very important but it was more about that cultural shift and breakthrough that

really I think drove everything we did. You're amazing. I just think you're amazing. I've learned a lot from you and I thought a lot about that first talk I saw you give and I where am I not doing some of these things and my company and in my business and I think the cause thing I wanna dig a little deeper because you are the first person who I've ever heard say it this particular way, which is that your whole business stems from the customer.

To a degree to someone I've talked to in a lot of businesses, to a degree that you are obsessed with them in a healthy way and a loving way. In other words, I feel like there was a love for your customer that caused you to have a healthy, beautiful obsession with them that drove all of your decisions. And I don't think any one in the entrepreneur space speaks about this as well as you do. So let's hear from you about that whole concept. If that's not what drives you, the profits will never come, right? People then profit.

Like how do you focus in so intently on your customer, customer obsession to your point? And for me, in that case, like listen, that was the whole sort of courage, if you will, of making that pinnacle decision in the business was informed by somebody who was the customer, in essence, and being able to sit down with her

and have a cup of coffee and talk it through. And I think, over the course of the years, it delights me to sit down and like, I love to answer our customer service line. Like, I love it. First of all, I can't sit in an office. Like, I'm always wandering. I wanna be, I wanna know what's going on.

And you know, I love to sit down and answer it because if you're not listening to your end user, you are not making the shifts in your business or amping up the things that are working so successfully, right? And I tease, there's a woman who's been with me for years now and run my customer's service group. Her name is Chrissy. And I do sort of laugh, because Chrissy will look at me.

Like, I'll sit there for a while and she'll be like, you're not that good at this. Like, move on. She's taking back my team's taking back. We're spending too much time, you're doing whatever. But I think that piece of it, and I think that's again, culture, I think is in essence what you're talking about. And what we talked about so much when we were last together

is how do you build a culture in which you're the leader. You're setting that tone. And my tone has always been customer first, culture first. And even to the extent that when I hire, like how do you hire against the choices that you believe people will have to make to thrive in your organization? How do you go of firing? Hire against it, fire against it, incentivize for it. I mean, I say there are six choices you have to make to come work for me. That is when I talk about in every interview. That is when I'm looking for that it factor. And by the way, like I also hold everyone accountable to that because you would be doing a disservice

to those in your culture if somebody is a misfit. What are some of those sex, Cindy? What are some of those sex? So the first choice, the foundational choices, you got to choose to be an owner. And look, I'm going to be part of that. My commitment to you is I'm going to give you a piece of this. You are going to own a piece of our destiny, right? But ownership takes many forms, including accountability. I own the successes and the failures equally. So it's an ownership kind of mindedness to it. Yeah, choose to be bold.

I mean, the fortune favors the bold. That's a, that's true statement. You got to choose to be quirky. What do I mean by that? It the bull, that's a, that's true statement. You gotta choose to be quirky. What do I mean by that? It's such a weird one. Quirky, I think, is about choosing to show up as your authentic self. And having created an environment, by the way, that celebrates that. Think about it.

Like, so many cultures are like, this is our way. Where this, where this process, and I know you have to have processes, but actually as soon as you beat the individuality out of people, you basically homogenize and lessen your chance for success. So the learning family and appreciative are my final three. You know, as a group, I mean, we have like, we have weird definitions of fun. When we do you know meetings together as a company, we just go learn from other companies. What do you mean by that? So, you know, when I first built customer service for an example in this, you know, knowing like customers are going to drive our every decision, I looked around in my

industry and I thought, well, you know what? Healthcare companies are not known for, customer service. So I didn't really have a peer who was like a CEO, I could go, hmm, can I go learn? And I thought, okay, I'm gonna go learn from Tony Shue at Zappos. And I flew the whole company there. Every employee went and learned at Zappos.

And like that's such a big piece of it. And I think we're totally familial, but I think appreciative is shouldn't be overlooked. And I think that is a choice for all of us, right? I think that's a life choice you show up with an attitude of gratitude. And even in our darkest moments at and I think there were lots of those moments in which we probably weren't going to succeed. We would sit back and I think rather than dwell on the darkness, we would be,

what's off-struck, with gratitude for what we were trying to accomplish. Nice. Every once in a while we do a show, and I start getting messages to the people, I should have paid you for the show. Like I'm just gonna be honest with you, I should have paid you for the show. Like I'm just going to be honest with you, like I almost want to charge everybody right now.

I mean, I do what I know, you know, I want to go to two of those things you said. I just, you guys, having had a very long entrepreneurial journey myself, when I hear brilliant truth, I just want, I do everything I can to go stamp this. Please, if you're an entrepreneur or thinking about being an entrepreneur or no, if you know one share it with them. This is one of these you listen or watch more than one time. I'm just telling you, but the two middle ones there, the appreciative part brilliant, obviously. The bold part, almost nobody tells people that when they hire them, Almost nobody does. And the quirky part I love, you do a little thing with the quirky thing. You create a culture. Don't you like nickname everybody or something like that? Like that's quirky to me and it's cool.

And that helps people express the extreme parts of their personality. The parts they usually conceal from people that really connect you with people to get to them to express when you tell them to be quirky and express themselves. But you do the nickname thing. Listen, I'm such a, it's really is my quirk. I've nicknamed people from the time I'm really little.

I, I loved to throw nicknames around. And so, you know, when I started building organizations, I nicknamed everybody. And it became our own internal language. By the way, my mom worked for me in my very first company. And her nickname was 2cent. Because you know, moms love to put their 2 cents in for everybody. But what I would have never expected in my wildest imagination is that a rap persona developed from this. My mom would show up in like gold chains rapping for my sales meetings. And my, you know, nieces and nephews would be like,

what happened, what happened to Lulu? But look, I have the beauty of me being me and nicknaming people and sharing one of my quirks with everyone else is that it bonded us in a way that even if, and I have a lot of sales people, right, they very rarely will be in the home office. When they meet somebody, they already know something about them.

They know their story because we have talked about them, you know, for all this time on Slack, and they know the funny of that story that was the basis of the nickname, and we're so, I think, really connected in that way. I have to make one point on the bold and not telling people to be bold. That's such a mistake.

Yep. To not tell people to take the shot, to take the bold action. The worst version is for us to force people into like, oh, I have to make one perfect decision, one perfect decision as opposed to what if you were to make five decisions? Right, three of them are f**king.

But two of them were really good. And that means you're way ahead of the game because you basically gave that my very favorite business story is about Southwest Airlines. I don't know if I shared this when we were together. I love this, probably everybody who's listening to his flown, Southwest, and maybe this is folklore. But when they came out, think about this as an airline, they

were totally disruptive in an industry that was very stodgy, conservative, safety was the most important, and they were going to be fun. Fun? That's a bold idea, right? An airline is going to be fun, but her callower was so clear in that vision that he basically empowered everybody to make jokes. And on one of their very early flights, flight attendant came on and said, in the case of a water landing, we'll be serving my ties off the right way. Well, you know, there's a passenger flying southwest for the first time going,

what? And they write their strongly worded note, like this is not professional, when people are afraid of flying all the bot. And the legend goes that that came into Southwest, and as it does, it went all the way up to the desk of the CEO. And you know the classic response. It would be, you know,

dear so and so, we're so very sorry. We spoke when he wrote back on his letterhead three words. We'll miss you. Wow. Wow. It's bold. I've not heard that story. That's, but you know what? So great about that is he knew exactly who is going to be. He knew he would never be for that customer, but he was going to be that for millions of others. And I think that's about, what do you, don't compromise ever who you want to be. And that in and of itself is a boldness and a courage,

I think, in how you want to show up in this world. Early in my career mistake, I may ask one share of the audience, because you probably didn't do this. Number one, if you're going to tell people to be bold, you better have their back, I may ask one share of the audience, because I, you probably didn't do this. Number one, if you're going to tell people to be bold, you better have their back, which is what you're saying that old herb did there. You have their back, right? That's right. And I think the other part of the culture you have to create, and I didn't do this well

when I was young, I was too intense, I was too hard on people publicly, and then I think eventually people lost the belief that I had their back. And so the more I was hard on people publicly, the less they were willing to be bold because they may get some sort of repercussions from me. And so also as a leader, if you're going to create that bold environment, these people need to believe, like herb in that story, really believe that you're back. That's something I really changed as I went into my late 20s and early 30s. And I'm just wondering now, in hindsight, after you just told that story, I wonder if that's why so many of my supposed business successes took place around those times.

I stopped doing that. If that make any sense, you know those really intense driving leaders. Yes. Sometimes that intense environment can cross over into that person doesn't have my back. Yeah, for sure. No, I, that's absolutely right. I think that's an awesome observation. When people make crazy bold decisions,

even when they go wrong, I mean, they're part of a company folklore, right? You're not even voting to talk about them at the meetings. Yeah. Because if nothing else, like again, I think having a sense of humor all the way in everything matters. It matters.

There are things are gonna go sideways, they are not gonna go right, and you really have to know that that is not going to defeat you. Huge thing, I'm just gonna say what I learned from you, and then more I've listened to you, and I've thought about, okay, what do you have in common with these other CEOs that I know?

More and more, humor's part of their game. Oh yeah. More and more, I'm serious. More and more humor. There's that old school driver, leader, cramuginy CEO thing that does not play a lot anymore. And the humor thing is, another thing I learned from you, I just want to share the else that I learned from you. Because I am an intense guy, and I think that if you're somebody that's that way and you, one thing you do that was just a very simple thing You did that I've started to do in a couple of my different businesses now is you said to me it was so basic You think because when you're not to bro you're looking for inches right because

And you said you basically had lunch every day with the team in the boardroom like you just be in there And I don't do that. I close the door and have lunch And that may sound silly because I wanted to work through lunch. But I missed hundreds of opportunities to bond, create culture, quirkiness, all these other things that you described, something that simple made a difference for me. So thank you for that. Oh, thank you.

That's awesome. We still have it. We call it the glass table. It's technically metal today. But we started out in my very first company with this, you know, pretty small, like rectangular glass table. I mean, there were three of us. called the Glass Table. It's technically metal today, but we started out in my very first company with this, you know, pretty small, like rectangular glass table. I mean, there were three of us.

We had lunch together, but over the years, I mean, it has looked like the last supper, like my table's the longest thing you've ever seen, but we still sit down every day together as a team. And the Glass Table not only gets us all in the same page, we have absolute transparency in the company because everyone's always talking about exactly where we're at, right?

Nothing is ever missed. But it is really like, we do that for part of the time but it's not all business. We also of course have to chomp, you know, solve the dilemmas of reality television the night before. And then you can't do it. I'm not. I learn these things aren't little.

They're huge when you, their holes in your game as an entrepreneur. That's why when you're listening to this, by the way, maybe you're not even an entrepreneur, maybe you're a school teacher listening to this. A lot of these principles apply to being a better school teacher if you're listening to, okay. So spoiler alert,

because I wanna get to a lot of your principles too. Spoiler alert, she sells this thing for a ton of chatter. Yeah. What's most incredible is what happens after this, without getting into a lot of the details, but tell them kind of where you are and not we're going to get to the pink you made or stuff. Tell them where you are now and what happened after the sale of this company because this is all time or guys, this is an all time or all time or all time or you a B-type exit like she had.

And not that long later, tell them what happened. Oh my gosh, so I sold it for a billion dollars in cash upfront, and then they never launched it. So if this is not like the case study for, there is no such thing as a happy ending unless you create it. This is it, which seems apropos for the story. And I just, I gotta tell you, I went from fighting 26 drugs for men, one finally across a finish line for women, women who deserve

this forever and need it, have access to it, do nothing. This was again that moment of, am I going to let everyone down? Not on my watch. And so I ended up going back to the company and I said, you haven't launched it, give it back. In the first conversation, which was a breakfast meeting in New York, their CEO, who's a nice guy. And by the way, it was a new CEO from the one who purchased it from me. He said, we paid you a billion dollars in cash for it. And I said, I know.

This is a lot of value. I'm like, I'm glad you know that, because so too, to my shareholders. And so ultimately, the punchline of the story is, I made them pay attention. They weren't doing the things they had committed to do in the deal contractually. And in exchange for me not seeking action,

they gave it back to me. And we kept the billion dollars and we invested today in other female disruptors. So that's the reason. She just said, she's always like for a billion dollars, she got it back for a ham sandwich. And she has it right now and she's going to be the one to take the mission to its final

fulfillment now. It's unbelievable story. And by the way, let a little thing I learned, I'll get too detailed because it's a private thing. A little thing I learned is when you have an exit if you're an entrepreneur, write some stuff in that sucker that makes them deliver on some benchmarks so that they have to perform or you can get it back, right? Everyone, everyone, everyone who's ever going to sell a business, when you sell a business, you are going to most likely get some money upfront and you're going to get a back end. It may be royalties, milestone payments, whatever that is. That back end, I promise you, in a standard legal document, is gonna be governed by, quote, best efforts,

a best efforts clause. You know what you're gonna think is a founder as soon as somebody else takes every or baby, you're gonna think, your best efforts are not my best efforts. And so I'm really unhappy because you're not maximizing the potential of this asset. So really, you get smarter as you go along, right Ed? I sold my first business, best efforts clause.

This business for a billion dollars, really specific things. How many sales people would they have? What kind of marketing budget would they have? And again, it wasn't extraordinary asks. It was what was required to launch this brand, but when they didn't do it, I had leverage. I love it.

It also protects the people that you feel in your heart and mind you're leaving behind that are going to stay when you ultimately might leave everybody. So I've learned so much. I just, and by the way, it's just your treasure chest of information. All right, let's talk female entrepreneurs for a minute, entrepreneurship in general.

So pink ceiling, the pink you bater, she is now, I don't call it an angel investor, because that's not exactly the term I would use, but she is now investing in female entrepreneurs on a pretty regular basis. Now she's got several interportfolio. And I'm curious, like this, the basic question first, what do you look for to where you're willing to part with some of your capital to back somebody? What I'm an entrepreneur right now, maybe I'm a female entrepreneur, I'm listening to this. What does someone with all of your knowledge base look for in an entrepreneur that you want to believe in?

Yeah. Okay. So first, I'll tell you a little bit about the Pinkie Bader. I'm looking for disruption. I'm looking for those people taking big swings at first. I like first and they're the ones that are hardest to get people to bet on. Is. I like firsts, and they're the ones that are hardest to get people to bet on. I know, haven't built it that way, right?

So first and often things that are gonna really change the social conversation. So that's my love, and my love is in health and wellness. But when I'm looking at an investment, I gotta tell you, I'm looking at the person. That's it, I'm looking at that entrepreneur. They may have great ideas. I see great ideas walk into my office every day,

but you know what? Great ideas don't execute themselves. People execute great ideas. So who is that person and how are they wired? And I think one of the things I value so much beyond that resilience, right? Beyond that ability to get back up when you're when you're knocked down is curiosity. I tell you the two things that are the most

underrated characteristics. And actually, I think they're very intertwined. Curiosity and humility. That curiosity, that willingness to cut, like I want to know, is that something better? It's your point, it's inches, right? I want to understand that technique. I want to go learn this. If I know by stories that people tell me, if they have been wired with this from a really young age, and those people will be wildly,

so the most successful people I know, like you Ed, are inherently curious. And there's a humility to it, right? We have a really pretty profound arrogance right now in entrepreneurship. It's become cool. It's actually pretty cool to be an entrepreneur sexy. It's not like I think when we all started and everyone looked at you as that, are you insane?

Like back in, you know, nowadays you start and you start to win awards before you've ever executed. That doesn't work. So that humility is actually what's going to allow you to pivot when you have to, to take the constructive advice, to feel the sense of obligation that when somebody wrote you a check, that was their kids college fund, that their parents long-term care and you have an obligation to be a good Steward of that and actually pay them back and then some I

Look for that in my friends Curiosity and humility are interesting people and great to be around. Yeah, I don't want to be around super arrogant people that every Conversations about them and you know, I want that and I also don't want to same conversation every single time. I want people that are curious and learning and sharing things with me. And so, it's... Can I tell you, I have to tell you a story at about this. So this was like a great, I don't know, like an eye opening moment for me even in this.

My very first company had a product that was like an in-office procedure. So there was a technique to doing it. And we would film like all these surgeons doing their respective techniques. And we would use it for education. If I got to like the Tier B surgeons, right? And I would show them other people's techniques. They would be like, oh, that's wrong.

Oh, no. But if I went to the top people in the field, the tier A plus plus plus, I would show them videos of other people, they'd be like, oh my God, what's that? Oh, I never thought of that. Who am I gonna try that? That is the difference between A plus and B minus.

Oh my God, that's so true. It's so true. I have to tell you, are you making me think about things I haven't really thought about in a while, but when I do my private coaching, I don't, I'm really picky nowadays about who I'll do this with, but I've been blessed to do it with,

some really well-known and influential people. And it's so interesting to me that you said it the way you did because compared to say 10 years ago when I was working with somewhat influential people compared to the real leaders, that some of lead countries are big businesses or entertainers wherever. The more prominent they are,

they show up with their notes out in a pen and are leaning in and writing. And these are the people you would think that need me the least. Yes. Are the most curious, the most inquisitive, ask the most follow-up questions, are the most detailed, the most inquisitive, ask the most follow up questions, are the most detailed, send the follow up email with, I thought about what you said. And years ago, I got very little of that. I'd get people on calls kind of with their hands here,

kind of nodding because of the difference between the B and that elite level is so true. Oh my gosh, that's true. Very good. Very good. Got get to that when anybody's looking at a pitch, get to that, like get to that curiosity and how early that showed up. Is it been worth it? Is it been worth it? All you've been through, all the ups and downs, the work, the things you sacrifice, by the way.

For sure. You mean social life, family life, personal life, all those things. Yeah. Has it been worth it? I think it's a valid question to ask somebody. I wouldn't change a thing. But again, I think that's about, you know, inherently being grateful.

How lucky am I? Right? This is what I say to myself every day. How lucky am I? How lucky am I to sit here and have people with unbelievable ideas want to share them with me? How lucky am I to be sitting here talking to Ed Mylet? All of that. But is there sacrifice for sure? For sure. Like I worked every hour of every day on this and on my baby. And like I didn't have a social life. I teased my, I'm engaged now, but when I started dating, it was after I'd sold my

business and, and I lived in Raleigh for 10 plus years at that point, and he would ask me out, like on dates and say, have you ever been to this restaurant? No. Never been, no. Have you ever, and I think by like the third or fourth one, he was like, when did you move here again? 10 years ago. And he loves to say to me, even to this day, welcome to your city. And I think, like the third or fourth one. He was like, when did you move here again 10 years ago? And he loves to say to me, even to this day, welcome to your city. And I think, look, you know, that was, it's not that that wasn't at moments very painful, right?

And lonely and going through that. But in the end, no, I'm so fortunate for everything. And most of all, I think I'm fortunate for the multiplier effective ownership. For all those people who I gave skin in the game, to watch what that has done in their lives, to watch this is how they make decisions differently, to watch the things that they've been able to do that were really just their passions. It's awesome. Please listen to this incredible woman, those of you that are building a business in the sharing of equity.

I have friends that sold businesses where they kept it all and I have friends who shared. And I will tell you the difference in their bliss and happiness and fulfillment level 5, 10, 15, 20 years down the road is so infinitely different. infinitely different because I relate to what you said. You know, you and I are fortunate enough now that we now sort of are around people that also have a couple bucks from time to time whereas when we were doing these things we didn't and so many of my friends are like, so yeah, you've been to someone so restaurant in Paris, right? And I'm like, no, I've not been there. Well, you the Monte Carlo blah blah blah hotel. You've clearly been there on your global express because you've got the jet you can go there and no, I haven not been there. Well, the money, Carlo, blah, blah, blah, blah, hotel. You've clearly been there on your global express because you've got the jet, you can go there.

No, I haven't been there either. No, because for the better part of my life, I was in the same seat in the same place. And I can tell everybody now looking back, I don't feel like I missed out on something. Yeah. I'm not saying that during those times I didn't, sometimes when I'd see posts or people doing things or but I now on the other side of it, which is by the way, guys, that's

why you have to win. If you're going to sacrifice so much, win. So the end of the story is a good one. We don't want you to sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice and then lose. Thank you, man. So there's got to be this part of you that's got this will to win. There's Cindy. One thing you underestimate about you is, and I know everyone you are you, you're probably people that if we took them out of your company, you, this

doesn't happen. But there's also the, the stoic quiet will of this woman, of this leader in many different moments. And I know you have humility, but at least admit that to my audience, please, that you had this will, this depth of will that is special. You know you do, and all great entrepreneurs do. True. Oh, Bill, absolutely. I, and I'll, I'll tell you, we had this one last moment. So, you know, when I fought the FDA, it like forced them to have all these public meetings and to actually

very publicly discuss this issue with women and with scientists. And in the very last meeting where they invited in all these experts from the country who had to vote basically on our data, would you approve it or not approve it? It was just their recommendation. So most important like game of our life are super bowl, right? We've done so many hours of prep to go in because it's like being at the Supreme Court. It's not the Supreme Court, it's at the FDA.

But literally you're in the room being quiz, they get to ask you questions, the public gets to speak unbelievable. And the night before we go, I threw a victory party. And my chairman of my board was like, what? What's happening? Everybody needs to be in bed.

Go to bed, like get prepared. It's the biggest moment of our life. And I looked at him and I said, we are walking in tomorrow as champions. When or lose, we have done everything we can inside for we will walk in as champions. And I gotta tell you, my team locked in as champions. When or lose, we have done everything we can in Syracuse, we will walk in as champions. And I got to tell you, my team locked in as champions and we won the day.

I love it. I love it. I love it. You fire me up. You fire me up. OK, we're out of time. All right. I want to do one.

But before the show, just so you know, guys off camera, we'll probably do two of these. And we will. I already know when people are listening to this, that they're going to go, please have her back. And so we definitely will. But I'm going to give you a basic, first off, because I'm going to let you finish,

and I'll send this out when you're done. But first off, I want to say thank you to you. You're important. You're important for a lot of reasons. One, I'm a man, right? And you would think that your role You're important for a lot of reasons. One, I'm a man, right? And You know, you would think that your role is that you're this example to women in business and we need you We need more of these unbelievable women leaders in business to be willing to share their ideas and their thoughts because a lot of the

Guys do but not enough of the ladies have done that. So you're so important in our culture, I believe, as an example, I can't wait for Bella, my daughter to watch this conversation. I've told her all about you, obviously. But also, you've been important to me. I've learned a lot from you and you've inspired me. You've made me think through some of the ways I handle some of the businesses that I'm in. And you know this, you and I are around everybody. It's not often that that type of impact is made on me. So I want to thank you personally. And that's why I had you today, you know, everyone doesn't know about me.

Il, we were going to do this in person. She's like, let's play. I go, no, we can't delay this. I need to have this conversation with you. So thank you, number one. Well, thank you, Ed. I'm so appreciative really for you to have me on and to expose me to your incredible audience.

I really, I appreciate. that's a gift to me. I know that your focus is on helping women, but I guess my point is, is that you help everybody. If there is a gaping hole in the entrepreneurial space, it is for we need more women to step forward and have these incredible stories and teach us these lessons. There's just, there's not enough. And by the way, ladies that are listening to this, there is a huge need, a huge space that is waiting for you to emerge, that is waiting for you to contribute in a way that you cannot even imagine could happen.

If you'll just go do something great and then share with us how you did it. So I wanna make sure that I've at least acknowledged that fact. Okay, last thing, easy question, but it's an important one. So I always have this thought in my mind. I get access to somebody like you, but people listening or thinking, I'm an entrepreneur right now, I've started, I'm not where I want to be. In fact, I'm not even where I thought I would be. Okay. I got a little bit of this imposter syndrome that both you and I have had before, that you kind of start looking around one day at your

office on a Wednesday and you're like, am I kidding myself and everybody here with this whole story I'm telling? We all have had that. I have first heard. What would you say to that person who's like, hey listen, I need to know what you think I should be thinking or doing if I'm at that stage of my career. And I know that was a long time ago for you. But if you could go back and help, because we've helped entrepreneurs at all levels, I want to go all the way to that level last. Hopefully you stuck around to listen or watch at the end. What would you say to that person who says, hey listen, I'm further behind even than I thought I would be, what do I need to change? What do I need to think or do differently?

I'm going to tell you just as you've set that up, you've gotten into your own head and you've had this idea that you have to have all of the answers to take the next step, that you have to have perfectly imagined it. And I'm going to tell you that is a false assumption. You just have to have the courage to take the next step. Just go. And I think we can, because of all of those feelings, basically erode our own confidence, right? And confidence, we all talk about the confidence, the swagger that you need as an entrepreneurship. I'm going to replace that notion for you right now. Replace confidence with competence. No one knows this stuff better than you.

And for that reason alone, you can walk into the room with any room with authority and pitch it and convince people and persuade them. So good. So good. I'm stealing that from you, just so you know. I just believe if you're, I agree with you, if you're great at something, good things are going to happen long term. If you're just great at you're the best. Which I think you are. I just think if you're I agree with you if you're great at something good things are going to happen long term If you're just great at you're the best which I think you are I just think you're remarkable I know I've said that probably 50 times during the conversation, but I just I'm very grateful that you exist

I'm grateful that because you don't need to do it very similar like me You don't need to be out here. You don't need to be teaching this you could be sitting on some beach somewhere with your fiance and just Count your cheddar, but you're out but you're out there helping other people accumulate great things in their life. And so you're... I got to tell you, when I got to the billion dollar club as a female entrepreneur getting to sell our company for a billion dollars, that should not be a lonely club.

And so I also appreciate your comments. It doesn't make any sense. for a billion dollars, that should not be a lonely club. And so I so appreciate your comments. It doesn't make any sense. And nothing fires me up more than the multiplier effect. Like how do I create? Yes, I've gotten to a billion dollar exit for myself. I really hope I'll build a billion dollars worth of wealth for women.

I love it. Oh, you're going to. You're going to. I, you're going to. You're going to. I, uh, you're going to, you're, you're going to be a leader for all these women that are going to do this. So Cindy Eckert, thank you for today. So, so, feel better. I feel so good after this conversation.

I'm just like mad by the way, people. All of this medication that I'm on and I just need to talk to you for an hour and I'm like ready to run through a wall. I also can't wait to listen to this back. And honestly, I'm going to listen to this before it comes out because I got some things I want to write down because we went through so many things. So thank you guys. Follow Cindy all over social media. You'll find her and then in my case, share the show. If you're listening to the audio, go to YouTube subscribe to the video. If you're watching the video, go to Spotify or Stitcher iTunes or one of these places and subscribe to the audio as well. Okay? God bless you all and max out.

This is the Ed Milach show. Show.