THE ED MYLETT SHOW - Rediscover Your Joy w/ Alexis Jones

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

Prepare to redefine love, purpose, and resilience and discover profound truths that promise to shake your very core and elevate your journey to the next level…She lost a baby, found out her dad wasn't her real dad, focus on stories and not so much on her accolades and whats in the book.ALEXIS JONES is the epitome of inspiration, joy, kindness, love, and audacity. She is a celebrated AUTHOR, ACTIVIST, TV ICON, and MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER and has been honored with many accolades, including the 2018 JEFFERSON AWARD, joining the ranks of past recipients that have included Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Steve Jobs, and Oprah Winfrey.Her latest book, JOY HUNTER, lays the foundation for this heart-to-heart conversation, unraveling the most intimate lessons she's uncovered in her journey as we cover many of the things she’s learned about herself that you can apply to your life too, including…Performance-Based Love: The truth behind seeking love through achievements.Adversity as a Reset Button: Transforming challenges into new beginnings.Freeing Your Authentic Self: Letting go of society's expectations and perceptions.Mastering Emotional Responses: Understanding and processing intense life reactions.Braving New Dreams: The courage to evolve when your vision for life shifts.The Pursuit of Purpose: Unearthing the profound 'why' of our existence.Embracing Heartaches: Deciphering the deeper meaning behind life's pain.Avoiding Tragedy Traps: Navigating life without lingering on the 'what ifs'.Alexis's soul-searching questions might just be the ones you've been yearning to ask in your life.SELF-DISCOVERY is not always easy, but as you will hear from Alexis, the answers you find make all those struggles worthwhile.

This is the Edmila Show. Okay, everybody, welcome back to the show. So my guest today, I thought I had never met before. And then we just started to talk off camera, and it turns out like, I know our family really, really well. And we've been in the same place for like 11 or 12 years off and on, and we recognize each other's faces. And so we actually have a connection we didn't even know that we had.

And I'm grateful for it because as I was reading her work, I have to tell you, I felt so connected to her. So many similarities in just the things I think we both have wrestled with and struggled with in our lives. And so her work really deeply affected me, which is why I wanted her to come on the show. And so she has a book out. It's called Joy Hunter, messy face plants, radical love,

and the journey that changed everything. And it is a killer story. You're gonna love this story, guys. This is a very accomplished woman. She's spoken, you know, of anybody speaking to the White House, West Point, Nike, Harvard, Stanford. She somehow got on season, I think, 16 of Survivor.

She's been a mega, mega achiever all of her life. And that's kind of part of the deal that we're going to talk about today. So cannot wait to open this up today with you. So Alexis Jones, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. What a treat. I love, I love that we put it together that we, that we've basically been circling each other for a decade. It's wonderful. It's so crazy. It's so crazy to find that out right before we started because I did feel connected to you when I read your work. So you are, I guess what I would say for everybody just to set the context because the book is so interesting. But you're like kind of

like a mega overachiever type. Is that fair to say? Because I would describe myself that way as well. Absolutely. Yeah. Like seeking gold stars anywhere and everywhere. That was definitely. Yeah, the like insatiably ambitious. I always said that growing up in like high school and college grad school that like drugs were never my, never my vice ambition was. And so I think that that has always been something that external validation and it just never, ever quenching my appetite. and something that external validation and it just never, ever quenching my appetite. Okay, I think like millions of people right now went same here.

There's a, I think that's my, that's an in general to people that listen to my work or would fit some description of that. And I wanna start what you said in the book because it struck me like a lightning bolt. But you kinda, I'll say it my way and then you fix it, okay? But I want you to talk about this because this may be an eye-opener for someone to be with just this one thing, which is that essentially you conflated love with attention or

acknowledgement. And man, do I relate to that? I think the only time in my life as a child that I felt loved was if I had achieved something. And I think that started to wire me for that pattern. So just let's just start right there in the beginning. Then we'll talk about the journey. Yeah, that was beautifully said. I think that similarly, and again, just different synonyms, I associated external validation for self-worth. And so that that performance-based love that I have to go out there and I have to perform and earn it,

but not that it was ever inherently that I was worthy of that. And to your point, I think it's a kid with two very full-time working parents. Unintentionally, what I found was every time I did something extraordinary. If I was the star soccer player, I was the lead in the school play,

they would always show up. And I think anyone who grows up in that kind of environment where your parents are paycheck to paycheck, but they would make time for those extraordinary things. So I think unintentionally, I got the message very early on, the bigger in the batter you are, the more love and attention you get from the two people you want it from the most. And I think I just exactly what you said I conflated the concepts.

And then just became like a monster, like a machine that just kept going. Yeah, me too. And I always thought, you know, I'll get around to feeling love myself. Like I'll get around to it. And I just never got around to it. I had to tell you anecdotally, I had Maria Shriver on the shows, become a just a wonderful friend of mine. and she even said to me that she goes, I still find myself trying to get validation and love from my father who's been passed away for years and years and years that we can still do it with people that aren't even here. And by the way, spoiler alert for later in the interview you guys in the conversation,

something about those two parents will be very, very interesting in a minute because this story has been anus. So let's set the stage for a second about the book and like where all this self discovery and self awareness started to kind of come from. So tell them how the joy hunting sort of began. Let's just lay the premise of the book. I want them to get the book so we're not going to do everything in it. But I think the foundation of where this change came from is pretty profound.

Yeah, I mean, I think for me, it was just like everything, like checking all the boxes, you know, like you were saying, like climbing the mountain, never having time, like being so over-scheduled, over-exhausted, over-worked, but never having time to really sit with, is any of this actually make me happy? Like, is it the life I actually want? And so I'm just sitting there climbing up the mountain and then all of a sudden in a very short amount of time, everything that could possibly go wrong in my life did. And as you mentioned, it was finding out

that my dad was not my biological father on ancestry.com. It was my very lucrative speaking career, hitting a brick wall with COVID. It was my abruptly going on unemployment because the 150 events that I had for 2020 were canceled within two weeks. And then my husband and I had been trying to get pregnant for years, had battled in fertility for half a decade. We finally got pregnant, we lost the baby. And so it was just like in every direction, it was heartbreak, it was identity crisis, it was the rub being pulled out from underneath me. And I would say that like that was when I hit eject from like the life that I was living, that everything was just crumbling underneath my feet.

And I think looking back, that was the invitation to do the real work that I'd been avoiding and running from my entire life. Like that deep soulful, exactly what you said of like, yeah, at some point, I'm going to get around to learning how to love myself. But until then, I'm going to preach about it on stages and go to Oprah's house and post about it on social media. But I don't know how to actually do that for myself. So. The background's so crazy, you guys,

which she says climbed the mountain, she's actually really done that. She's backpacked in like 50 countries. You've jammed, I've done it too, but when I read yours, you jam like 60 lifetimes into like half of a lifetime, or less, right? And yet what I want everybody to get is,

I think a lot of this does serve you. Like achievement, external validation validation external accumulation is not necessarily In fact, it's not a bad thing if it's not at the expense of the other things I mean there should be an eternal driver to want to compete and prove yourself and there's nothing wrong without at all In fact, I would it's interesting It's kind of odd sometimes when two people that have achieved a lot, then after they achieve a go, well, it wasn't worth it and I'm all screwed up. Yeah, the truth is a lot of those things did serve me.

Those, a lot of those things provided me, frankly, the space and time to have self-reflection, the financial resources to do it. But also the other people around us suffer, because you said something about your inability to love other people if you don't want yourself. I want you to finish that sentence, but it's super valid because I used to say, man, I'm great at giving love to everybody else, but I just don't feel it myself. But when I read what you said there, I went, I wonder if I do love people to the extent

that I could because of this limitation of how I feel about me. So let's go there. Yeah. I mean, I think you're nailing it, like the symbiotic relationship, like the depth and the extent that we are capable of loving other people is directly commensurate with our ability to love ourselves.

And so I think I was loving people to the degree, exactly like you said, to the degree that I could, but because there was such a superficiality and a shallowness to the love I had for myself, there was a limit to how much I could love other people. And so there's this irony that we think it's selfish to like really pour into and love ourselves, but again, like the depth by which we love ourselves, that creates the capacity to which we can love other people.

You think you were trying to create like, I always look, sometimes I think I overanalyzed stuff, but I tried to provide so much stability in my own life through financial success and achievement. And by the way, I'm very grateful that I did everybody and I highly recommend you all do it. So I'm not telling you that's a bad thing. But in hindsight, my own childhood was so,

I guess I'd call unstable, being raised by an alcoholic, my dead kind of just, you know, just that instability. And so I was trying to probably create that, I think, through success and achievement. And then I look at your background, I'm like, grandma's not married nine times, five times to the same guy. Yeah, I think I think your mom was married five times too. Yeah, my mom was married five times. There were three dads, three dads between five of us. We would find out it was four dads between five of us. And my mom was working two jobs and going to night school. So, you know, she's putting in 80 hour weeks and as a single mom. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the instability, right, of like not having that consistency and I think that, you

know, being able to take that instability and for me, I just turned it into like jet fuel, right? Like the not-enoughness that I felt and, you know, part of my story and I don't know what your story is from, you know, a financial standpoint, but also being the poor kid in the rich neighborhood. It's a huge chip on my shoulder about like, oh, I'm gonna show you one of these days, I'm gonna be able to afford all the shit

that all of y'all are walking around with. And so that was a huge driving force. But I agree that I don't think it's all bad. I mean, I think that like getting bullied and made fun of for like not having the right shoes and living in shitty houses and things like that. It certainly became jet fuel, but I think to your point, and this is a word my dad always uses, is like when your life becomes caddy want this, when like it was so out of balance that my desire to achieve, and especially financial success, was such a huge piece of what drove me, came at the expense of my health and well-being. Then of course, the irony that I was preaching health and well-being, especially to major global

audiences, and it was the fraudulency that exists when you know that you're really good at talking the talk but walking the talk is a whole other thing. So that was kind of the, that was the invitation. Yeah, by the way, and you do talk the talk so well as I'm watching you and listening to you here. You're one of the great communicators I've had on the show. Like I can see why your stage speaking so profound

and why you're so sought after. Let's cut to kind of the middle of the story a little bit and tell them what you did. So because it's kind of radical. And my way, not everybody's been able to force, but the reason I want to get the book and the reason I want them to hear the interview particularly is they can benefit from your RV trip right now today, right? And now that I know your family, but now that I know that I know your family, meaning I know her family for many, many years, you guys, like more than a decade. And I love her family. I love certain people in her family that I know. Now that I know that,

it even makes us even more interesting to me that you did it because you could have done a lot of other things. There's places you could have gone and done that were like, kind of, I don't know, cool things to go do. But you did that. So tell them what you decided to do and how you even set this up because it's pretty crazy what you did. Yeah, it was kind of like all in that like, space of heartbreak and disappointment

and like betrayal by God. I mean, I was just like, I was questioning every single thing that I knew. And we had one of our best friends was also experiencing his own heartbreak for his own reasons. And it was kind of like we were three heartbroken amigods. And we're like, we got to get out of here. It was, you know, May, June in Texas. So it was already 100 degrees. It was COVID and shelter in place. Like all these catchphrases that are now, you know, we, we're very familiar with, but at the time we're like, what is that mean like shelter in place? And so at the time we brimted like a celebrity

tour bus, like a 38-foot tour bus, that like slept nine and had like two full bathrooms just for the three of us. And we hopped on the road and we just said like, let's just go chase an adventure, which I think that was such oxygen for my soul and had always been and I think you know certainly the time it wasn't like oh we're gonna go on this RV trip and it's gonna be deeply healing and then I'm gonna write a book about I could just like give me the f*** out of here like that's all I knew um so we end up going on this epic road trip which of course ends ends up becoming this beautiful journey of not even self discovery as much as self remembrance.

I think that that was the thing that I think we actually have less to learn in our lifetime and more to remember, because the little versions of us, the young versions of us who enter into the world and know who we are so effortlessly, before the world kind of gets its hands on us. And I think it was kind of a great unlearning to get back to the little girl who knew exactly who she was before I started checking boxes

that I thought impressed other people. You write so and speak so eloquently by the way. I don't, I have to tell you, I relate so deeply that as I'm interviewing you, I'm kind of like processing some stuff. I was doing it last night. I read your entire book last night. Yeah, and I was processing a lot of it even this morning.

And you write such beautiful things that resonate with me. And I have a feeling when people on the treadmill right now or drive it in their car or get in their coffee ready in the morning, it's happening to them as well. I want to read something that you said and then I want you to talk about it. I want everyone to hear this really closely because something dawned on me when I read it.

You said, I remind myself that letting go of others' expectations and opinions of me, allows my inner voice to be my truest and best guide. I believe that validating myself as a single most important act in the pursuit of self-love. I choose my community, the people I do life with, intentionally. I love infinitely. I trust discerningly. I forgive quickly. I communicate boundaries early and I lovingly let go of people who are incapable or unwilling to give as much as they take. It is so beautiful. Once you talk about that and you might realize when I read it, just letting go of other people's expectations. I'm not even sure in my own life who these other people are anymore or what it is that I think they expect. Totally.

I'm not even sure in my own life who these other people are anymore or what it is that I think they expect. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally.

Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. beliefs that we allow like the captors, like the captors inside of us, to be these like paper tigers, right? Just this like these phantom dragons that exist and oftentimes some people say, well, yeah, I just, I don't know what they'll think. And I'm like, who are they? Like, who is this like, who is this peanut galley that we have created inside of our minds that heaven forbid we get brave

enough to like stand up on the stage in our own lives and like do and say and be all the things that we know that we want in it is the truest version of ourselves. Like heaven forbid, we're like, who the hell is this peanut galley that we've constructed inside of our head? And I actually think it's a really good exercise because when we really think about it and we start writing down those names, that's something I always challenge people to do. Who are they? Is it the guy from high school, Kevin Funderbuts,

who I talk about in the book? Is it that guy? Because by the way, Facebook, see what that guy's up to nowadays. And it continues to be a spiritual practice of acknowledging and letting go. Because I think the idea that we're just going to snap our fingers and suddenly not give a damn what people think. It is part of the human condition to care. And I actually think it is a beautiful part of the human condition to care what people think about us

and to seek that love and validation. And at the same time, what I've learned now, and I mean, this is a bit from Bernet Brown's philosophy, but the idea of like, if you are not in the arena with me, and I literally have a list of like my favorites on my phone, which are about 10 to 15 people, and even when the book came out, it was a really good exercise of like three years of internal

work. And I remember when the book came out and I made a point to say, the people who get to have an opinion that matters to me are these 10 to 15 people that are on my favorites on my phone. Everyone else is what it is. And like I think it's as dangerous to believe the criticism as much as it's dangerous to believe the praise. Because inevitably from strangers and especially with social media today. So I think that idea it is a spiritual practice

for me every day. And I actually did a post a couple days ago because some dude named Steve from USA posted like a super heinous thing on Amazon review on Amazon, which was really just like a wild personal attack. And I posted it on social media and basically said like the Stevens of the world are always going to exist. Like the haters are always going to hate and regardless, like having an emotional buoyancy that exists from like the love and support from the people who are in the arena of your life. Those people's opinions get to matter. And I think that I'm not above it. And that's why I'm saying like for a minute, I like red-steed review and I was like, what? Who is this guy? And then my next thought was like deep breath.

So I can respond and not react deep breath. What is my truth? My truth is that Steve is not me arena with me. It's not even a real person. Let's be real. Like it's definitely not Steve. You know, so at the end of the day, I'm wildly imperfect when it comes to that practice.

But it is an aspiration for me to continue to let go. I want to talk about that response, react thing in a second. So here's how I'll write you. By the way, everyone you hear, there's gems inside gems that she gives you. One thing she said in the beginning is, means you also can't take the accolades and adoration so deeply either. I was at dinner last night with my daughter and we were talking about this very topic. I get this feeling that criticism doesn't bother her quite as much as it does me to this day. I said, Bill, I think that's a superpower of she's,

well daddy, of course I care and I said, good. Cause I still want you to care. And actually, as I was saying it, someone bought my dinner. There was a fan of mine in the restaurant that the server came over and bought my dinner and wrote It wrote me a long letter while they were sitting there to a beautiful letter It's just read it. I go, oh come on and I read her the letter and she and I said isn't that beautiful?

Isn't that wonderful to know and I but I said to her I said Bell of the one thing is if you start to buy in too much to how amazing You are the flip side of that coin is the other one as well. So I'm grateful I've helped this person very beautiful soul for taking the time to write this letter and buy our dinner. But I don't want it to impact, I don't want to live for that because now I'm addicted to the same side, other side of the same coin on the criticism. You got to really evaluate this everybody. Really important things she said right there. And because if you start chasing all of that, then you're going to feel a whole bunch of more pain when you get the the adversary stuff. What about this response, Rick? You said it in the book. You said, now I have an ability to respond

rather than react. What's the difference? To me, it's an again, back to that kind of spiritual practice. It is the sacred pause. And I think for everyone, for me, I realized I had a huge disconnect between my head and my heart. And there was something about my mind always took over and was always thinking, but I was never feeling. And that was like a big shift over kind of that internal work. And what I realized was this idea that for so long,

something would happen in my life, right? It would be like a text or an email from someone or someone would say something and I would have this huge physical reaction and I could feel it well enough in my body and for me it was usually my chest and I'd get really big and all my muscles would flex

and I'd be like, who does she think she is? And my voice would change. And what I've noticed now is when I get that surge of energy which almost always it was a big reaction and almost always it was directly tethered to some form of ego, right? Of me defending myself or me feeling like, you know, someone was taking a jab or me feeling threatened or scarcity or whatever it was. And so now again, very imperfectly, what I notice now is when I have a big reaction that I take a sacred pause, I take a deep breath and I feel into my body and I ask myself, what do you need right now?

What's really going on? And like a tangible example this morning, I have a four and a half month old baby boy, which means like we get no sleep, right? Like deeply sleep deprived, which are like all get no sleep, right? Like deeply sleep deprived, which are like all my interviews, I'm basically doing them shrunk because that's the equivalent of being sleep deprived. And so this morning a very tangible example, my husband and I wake up and he wakes up and he's like, oh by

the way, I think I'm going to get my haircut today. And I have a golf tournament and I and I kind of had this like big reaction. And me being like, you don't get to do all the things that you just want to do. You know, and before you know, it is like tit for tat and it's like, well, you just had a girl's week and I took a deep breath and I was like one second. I put my hand up and I put one hand on my heart and I said, you know what this isn't about? We're not, this isn't about your like golf tournament.

This isn't about your hair cut that what I'm feeling is that I don't have enough time for myself right now. And what I'm hearing you say is that you don't feel like even have time for yourself right now. And he was like, yeah, and I was like, so really like we're feeling the same thing, like a paradigm of scarcity around our time. How can we best love each other right now? Because like, this isn't what it's really about.

You know, and he was like, and we both like, the escalation comes down. And so I think that's the difference, is it? And later we went and had breakfasts, and I was like, by the way, bro, like high five for like, look at those G escalating our lives. That's like new thing. Russian that fight in Barry and Natalie.

Yeah, so I think that like, that is, I'm a big fan of like give me something tangible Give me a tangible example and that was like literally hours ago this morning Where I was like that is the difference in me where I can recognize the difference in a reaction Which again is almost always like my feelings projecting Like whatever injustice I'm feeling on whatever the situation is, instead of taking like radical responsibility for saying, give me a moment, let me ask what's really going on, what need is not being met inside of me right now, and how can I honor that and ask for love and

support in getting that met. That feels like an entirely different internal dialogue. Really good. The applications everybody when she's saying this too, and I'd forgive me, I'd mean interruptions. No, please. I want to say that the applications of that are profound. Something comes up at work today where it's a big bomb dropped on you, and it's just a massive challenge and problem, and it's a real one. That pause of, what do I need right now?

That taking that breath that allows you to respond rather than react and make the difference in whether your company stays in business. You stack up of enough of these where you start reacting and not responding and your relationship to yours from now is totally different. Totally different. All of these different things. The application of these things, because at this level everybody that you're all listening to right now, these are the little things that separate and distinguish your life over the life you don't want. These are important things and it's great work you did when you wrote this. So a lot of it stuck with me. Like I wrote a lot of it down.

Like I didn't just read the book or highlight. I'm like, I'm writing this because I own stuff when I write it. And there's this experience in Jackson Hole where you run into this fisherman. What a cool trip, by the way. I just did a podcast release today on diversity and variety being richness in life. And that's really what you did at the time. And you went, I'm going to get some experiences I've never had because I said your brain doesn't change and you don't change if you do the same things with the same people over and over again, the chances of changing with the same people and the same patterns and the same activities, very small, but when you change, even if it's not something that cost

anything, now you've created an environment and so you run into this fishermen and you had a conversation about being at a crossroads in your life And the fisherman says, sure, I spent a lot of my life knowing something needed changing. Often that something was me. This stranger says this. But I was too scared to actually do anything about it. So I just stayed stuck in the abyss of doing nothing and wasting so much time he lamented. After some more reflection,

I wrote the following passage in my journal. It takes a lot of courage to be who you really are and even more to know what you really want and have the guts to go out there in the world and fight for it. All of that is easier said than done. Have you from that day did that change for you? Because I even think as I'm reading it, man, I'm making it sound like I'm better at the stuff than I am. I still am getting around to doing too many damn things in my life. I still am sitting here right now talking to you. So that was like a watershed moment for you.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was something that kind of like ricocheted inside of me. Was that idea of like how much time have I wasted in my life knowing that change needed to happen, but change is terrifying. I mean, I think it is like one of the scariest things imbued in our humanity is the fear of change. And like, what is on the other side of that? So for me, it was like kind of the first time that I was like, what does that look like? What does that bravely look like? Because as you mentioned early, I think that I had a definition of bravery that was jumping

out of planes, that was hiking the world's biggest mountains, that was swimming with sharks, that was starting companies, that was speaking on big stages, like again, all these very external things. And I'd found that it was really easy for me to be courageous professionally. And there was so much timidity for me in my personal life. And so one of the bravest things I ever did was the the following conversation I have with my husband when I said, I think I want to move to Montana, which is so funny when we look at these moments in our life where we can be so brave in some areas of our life and

and so shy and scared and timid in other parts of our life. And that felt like to this day is probably the bravest thing I ever fought for was saying, you know, we have this beautiful life in Austin, we're two hometown kids. We were building our dream house at Driftwood, which is dad was now overseeing another discovery property in Austin. I mean, it was like, again, you know dad was now overseeing another discovery property in Austin. I mean, it was like, again, you know, living the dream only, I think the bravest thing I ever said was, I don't think that's my dream anymore. And then what happens, reinvention is what happens.

And that is terrifying because you're not guaranteed anything. And oftentimes, I think we continue to captain the ship of a boat that we think is success because heaven forbid we de-bord it and we get onto another one. And we're not guaranteed anything. And that was kind of the big fear of like stepping out of Austin was again to hometown kids and like marrying a buckman. Are you kidding me? That's like synonymous with like success in Austin, Texas, you know, in the biggest thing, scary thing in the world was going somewhere and establishing a level of anonymity, where the freedom to be whoever we wanted, but we didn't have the embedded legacy of who we were.

And we couldn't live off the laurels of who we used to be. So it was kind of this blank slate, which again is like freedom on one side, but certainly the other side of that is, who are we if we aren't all the things that we've done in a accomplish? And if we don't walk into rooms and people already know our names. By the way, probably a little bit of like, hey, what's family going to think?

We're at their club, where were they live? This isn't going to be easy there either. I'm going to tell you, man, you really make me think. I want to ask everybody something that just created me. What areas of your life are you super courageous in right now? And then what areas are you not? Yeah. Because sometimes I think, I mean, they're courageous or I'm not. But the truth

isn't take lots of courageous. I'm just being always I'm open with with my family, my audience here. I'm super courageous when it comes to business. Yeah. Work work. Like I'll just get out like you were saying. Because that's like an area where I've proven success with most of the risks I've taken. I'm not so courageous in my intimate relationships of taking risks of being vulnerable, of being transparent. I don't show a lot of courage in those. I kind of play that safe. I kind of keep that stuff on the surface. And so you should ask yourselves that everybody,

where are you courageous? And just because you are courageous in one area of your life doesn't mean you are on the other. And then there's other thing I just want to unpack for a minute. Is this notion of this may not be my dream anymore to me That's huge courage. It's something frankly in some areas of my life right now We'll get into what they are because it doesn't matter, but I'm wrestling with that Some things are starting to really heat up and some areas and I'm like as I get closer to it. I'm like

Uh-oh I don't think this is my dream anymore. And now, and like, do I have the guts to go? Yeah, to get off the train. Yeah, talk about that for a minute, because that, I mean, you were really on the train, and still are to some extent. Talk about that, maybe, how do you know? How do you know it's not your dream anymore, just because maybe you're failing? Yeah.

Or is it not your dream anymore, because it's really not your dream anymore, just because maybe you're failing. Or is it not your dream anymore because it's really not your dream anymore? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, as I talked about in the book at a certain point, I was kind of being teed up to run for office. And that was like the pinnacle. That was like everything I'd ever worked for. I had been groomed my entire life to go into politics. Like that was always the quote unquote, in goal. And all of a sudden, as you said, I think

what's even scarier than failure is a dream realized that is no longer your dream. I think that's exponentially more terrifying. And I think what's Brad who was really able, my husband was really able to identify it in me because I got so distant from that internal voice that was speaking actual truth. And I was silencing her and muting her and like hitting snooze every time she tried to hit the alarm of like, bro, I think our dream has changed. And I was like, you shut your mouth. No, it has not.

I'm gonna disappoint all these people back to that peanut gallery. Like who are these people that I think I'm disappointing? But I'm gonna disappoint everyone. And it was really Brad who pointed out, I feel like you've lost like the light in your eyes. And it was just something as like only like such an intimate partner can witness and can like so lovingly offer that he was like, you know, having done life with you long enough now. I know when you're genuinely filled with joy about something., I know when you're genuinely filled with joy about something and I know when you're going through the

motions. And, you know, in the book, I, I, I retell a little bit of this story, but he was like, don't, don't get me wrong. It's fucking intoxicating to watch you like razzle, dazzle people, you know, because we were, we, and we had so much money verbally committed already before we'd ever announced. And like, we were, I was on that bullet train, you know, and for him to say, like, but my biggest fear is, like, I don't know if you really want this anymore. And he would, he would give me an out. Like, he was like, we can get off this train if you want to. And even then I was so at that point driven by what I thought like driven by sheds like what I thought everyone expected of me that it felt so dangerous and ungrateful. I think that's something else especially you know as a woman like

being teed up for you know know, these incredible opportunities, it felt selfish to be like, ah, I don't know if I want that anymore. And so I think for me, it was, you know, the help of a loving partner to really give me permission to say like, hey, between you and me, like, if you want to get out of this drain, like, I'll make sure, you know, I'll speak to the conductor, I'll make sure we can get off here. Alexis, this is so good. I just want you to know, this is so freaking good. Right now what we're talking about. Like this is the real of life.

It's not in all these platitudes and personal development that kind of float around. Like this is the real stuff right here, you guys, that can create a rich, blissful, incredible life. And the thing about the move to Montana and other things too, imagine you're being teed up to run for office, you are a woman, it is obvious that you would be an unbelievable at it.

I could see why people would think that. It's just amazing how similar I was on the five of the way. And like literally. And, but this idea, I don't know if you remember this, I'll tee it up in the when you talk about question marks in life. So that move, when you're pursuing a dream and you got, like, there's not a lot of question marks

when it's in your core. Like, I don't think, doing a podcast every week or giving a speech, I don't have a lot of question marks, right? Or making a business dealer evaluating a realist, like, I got, there's some question marks, but I kind of control the question marks. Yeah. I mean, but a move like that or a career change or the courage to leave a relationship that no longer wants or to go back to school or to leave your job and start your own business

or whatever it might be. Do you remember what you said about the question marks as problems that needed solving as compared to what you don't I'm talking about? Compared to what was it adventures or yes this is so good. I'll read it and then you said you talk about it. It's so freaking good. At some point I started to look at question marks as problems that needed solving instead of unanswered surprises and the twist and turns on the road on the wild journey of our lives. So now I choose to sit in the temporary discomfort. This is so good. Of my unfulfilled dreams, unfilled dreams, okay with not knowing the final score of the game because I know that the game is still being played and the story of my life is still being written. That's

a, that's one of the best lines of any book ever period, because it's exactly what I do. Question, oh, I gotta solve this. I gotta control this. I gotta, maybe it's okay that I don't know everything. Maybe the unknown is where the beauty is. Certainly the excitement. And I think as kids, when you think so much of our youth

is driven by question marks, it's like, I don't know, where am I gonna go to college? You're like, where is my first job gonna be? What is my first job gonna be? Who's gonna be my partner? Like I could like walk around the corner in the coffee shop and like run into him. Am I gonna have kids?

Am I not? Am I gonna have pets? There's so many question marks because there's so many unanswered adventures in store for us. And when we're young, I think it's part of what drives our vitality, is the unknown in the excitement. And I think it's we become adult.

And the dial of the seriousness of our life gets turned up. And certainly, is our ego starts accruing more and more bullet points. That is what we hold on to is who we are. Then the unknown, it threatens us. We're like, well, I mean, how would they like, how can I be a serious activist and do stand up? You know, like that was something for me that I told Brad that I was like, you know, at

a certain point, like the seriousness of activism, seriousness of politics, then I have a really like silly goofy side of me that I feel like only my closest friends could ever see. And I would say, yeah, I don't want to do stand up. But I know I could never do that and maintain whatever this identity that I felt had calcified and that I had to protect that at all costs. And I think that protection prevents us from having the creativity and the vitality and the energy of newness and reinvention because we aren't guaranteed. Like you said, success.

And we lean into the sunshine of success. So like our entire tree starts drifting toward the sunshine where we're like, we know we're safe here because we're really good at real estate Or we like crush business And I think we miss out on all the other opportunities To be challenged and to step outside of our comfort zones, but that's where the magic is Hmm Your dad's amazing. I'm listening and watching you and thinking, this is a really remarkable woman.

And then I reflect on the story and the book about your dad. And I want you to share this. So at some point on this journey, I thought it was on the journey, but I think earlier you said you found out before you went. I thought you found out on the trip about your dad. Am I wrong about that?

I found out before, but I was kind of doing flashbacks on the journey. So why don't you tell them and then this, your dad's in the hospital. I want you to tell them the story because your dad's answer to the letter. Yeah. To me is like, like, that's just a man who quietly lived greatly. Like, I'm sure he was a flawed, you know, he was a flawed person like my dad, but there's a greatness and an extraordinaryness to how he just lived his life and cared for you. So if you would just share the whole thing about your day, I want to hear this right here.

This is amazing. I just, Keynote, did at West Point. I was on the hour and a half journey back and I got a phone call, my agents called and said, I was supposed to do the TV show. I was doing a speaking tour with Glenn and Doyle Abby Womback and we were doing very normal press for the speaking tour. So I was supposed to go on the TV show and we were going to talk about the tour. And the woman from Ancestry, Jennifer, says, I'm sorry, but the information you provided for your biological fathers incorrect. So that was the moment of the like, wait, come again. What did you just say?

Then she said, you may want to have a conversation with your mom. I won't get into all the details, but basically end up finding out that my dad is not my biological father. And there's this real moment of, oh my God, do I tell my dad? My mom and specifically said, please don't tell your dad, please don't tell your brothers, which looking back, she fully admits like was an unfair request, but at the time I was trying to honor that request, even though they got divorced when I was really young, but we did all of our family events together. So all she's thinking is like, he's never going to forgive me.

And now all of our family events, they're going to have to be to fight. Like, it's going to create this vision in our family. And so I tried to keep this secret. But every time I was with my dad who like coached everything I ever played, who was like my real life Superman, there was just this like invisible wall. Every time I was with them, I was like, well, I'm up with tears. And he'd be like, what is going on lately?

I'm like, nothing. And really, it was this haunting fear that if he finds out that I'm not his biological daughter, will he look at me differently? And will he love me? Like will he just kind of say like, I, this is too hard, this is awkward. I don't know what to say. So mom's story short, I finally write this letter with my mom's blessing. I write this letter and

I thought I was going to be brave enough to read it to him. I'm not. I like thrust it into his lap and I run out. He ends up, you know, watching a football game. So he doesn't call me for like hours. Finally calls me and says, I read the letter and in the letter, I told him who my biological father was. And I said, I believe that our love is bigger than the data point of my conception. And in the letter, I said, all these things that he had taught me, the tenets of love and the tenets of grace. And I said, I think that we get past this and this makes us stronger.

And then he called me and he said, why don't you come over first thing in the morning. Let's talk about this. And I get emotional every time I tell the story because I really haven't talked about it publicly. Like I wrote about it in the book, but I really haven't like put words to it in real time. And it's still like a very emotional experience for me. And so I show up the next morning and I walk in and in the letter I told him who my biological father was. So as I walk in, I'm thinking and like maybe a little, you know, small talk like, let's talk about the weather. Like,

how are the cowboys doing daddy? And as soon as I come walking in, he said, Silvano Sanchez, huh? That was my biological father as I would come to find out. And I said walking in, he said, Silvano Sanchez, huh? That was my biological father, as I would come to find out. And I said, yeah, daddy. Silvano Sanchez, and he said, first off, first thing I remember about that guy, he was uncomfortably attracted. And I was like, what? And I started laughing, and he says,

the other thing I remember, he was a really good guy. And we don't need to pretend that your mom and I had some fairy tale romance. We didn't, we've been really honest about that with y'all. He said, but the truth is, I've actually always known. And that was a huge curve vault to me. Because in this moment, I've been thinking I was about to break my daddy's heart, that like,

in shatter it into a thousand pieces, and here he was, like, lobbing me this, like, enormous curveball, and I look at him, and I said, what are you talking about? And he said, come on, I've been engineer, I did the math, you know, your mom and I, and we were still living together, but we were separated, and all of a sudden, she was pregnant, and I wasn't 100% sure,

but I was pretty sure, and I was in the hospital when you were born pregnant and I wasn't 100% sure, but I was pretty sure. And I was in the hospital when you were born and I asked your mom, is she mine when you were born? And your mom kind of gave me a bit of an aloof response. And then the doctors handed you to me. And I looked in your eyes and I chose you. And that's it. He was like, that's all you need to know. And he was like, because parenthood isn't about, it isn't about biology. Parenthood is about showing up with a relentless conviction to love someone,

like rain or shine, whether you feel like it, whether you don't. And I made that commitment that day to love you, rain or shine. And I will continue loving you. So, you know, the idea that, I don't know that that parenthood is rooted in anything other than that relentless love. And what's interesting, and of course, the serendipity of the entire thing is years later, and we would have infertility issues, as I chatted about earlier, for years, but eventually we would actually have to hire an egg donor. So I am not the biological mother of my now son. And I remember once we got to that step in the process, you know, and people around me were like,

oh my God, that must be so hard. Like, what does that feel like for you? And I remember like not that it wasn't a light part of decision, but I remember looking at my husband and being like, it doesn't matter. Dude, it doesn't matter. Like, the whole leaping to mad, like my definition of motherhood and like my

conviction to love my son has nothing to do with whether or not he has my dimples. Like at the end of the day I was so confident that I was capable of loving any child at that I mean at that point I was like I will take any child off this like someone just stand me a baby because we we wanted to be parents so badly but to be a recipient of that kind of love that kind of voluntary choice was and continues to be the greatest treasure in my life. And I think is is probably from where I always say, I'm a billionaire in love.

And it's because I've been a recipient of that kind of love. Mm-hmm. Unbelievable. Unbelievable, this man essentially knew that this all these years, but probably, you know, I don't know if you've realized this or not, but he sort of lived with one of those question marks

all of his life and he was okay with it. So ironically, your work relates to that. The fact that he was as dedicated dad and did all the coaching was involved in everything tells you he knew I chose you that just made me cry. And then God's so amazing to choose you to be the mother of a child who's not biologically yours because you had had this journey. It's like God's awesome. God is awesome. It's just awesome. I mean, if there's one through like, if that is not like the thesis of this entire talk is like God is awesome. And like, you know, just the idea that I mean the biggest extrapolation I think of the entire journey, was that there's purpose to our pain.

And that time is the only revealer. And so I look back at all of this heartbreak. I look back at this apocalypse that happened, what felt like to my life, into my career, into my identity, into my ego. And, you know, at the end of the book, I talk about the fact that like, I think our lives are meant to fall apart. that I think our lives are meant to fall apart. Over and over and over because that is the invitation to continue to rebuild something more true and more true and more true of who we really are. And when I think about how awesome God is and how He wove Himself, all of these divine inflection points and lyninch pens throughout my life that for every single heartbreak I've ever endured, that there was a reason for it, that

there was a divine purpose for it. And even like the ending of relationships that felt too soon, you know, that on the other side of it, it was like, because I couldn't imagine, you know, that someone like Bradley Buckman was waiting for me. Like that was the guy I was gonna end up with. And same thing with my career, that, you know, there were parts that it had to be burned away. Like the wildfires had to come in and they had to, you know, burn away the parts

that I was too afraid to let go of myself. And that pruning that God did in my life so generously, and at the time felt so painful, but looking back, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank God. Literally, that you shut the doors and you took away people and experiences and even places from us because you knew that there was something else,

that you had something better in store for that I couldn't even conceive. I'm thinking of how you ended up here today. So by the way, I personally am so grateful for our conversation. Like I really am. This is absolutely the right conversation for me at this time in my life, seriously. And to know that I probably get, I'm gonna guess that I get two to 5,000 guest requests for 50 spots a year. We do, at least, probably more.

That's why I gave that range. And all these books, and I remember the email coming in about you, and I'm like, joy, honor. I grabbed it, and I'm like, I don't consider that one. And then somehow my discernment was like, no, I'm gonna do this. Then I read the book and I'm like, oh my gosh. I was gonna kind of skim read because I'm behind.

I'm like, nope, I'm reading every word. And then, so I read everything they gave me, rather. And then before we start to know that I've known your family for, you know, I don't know, 15 years. And then that this is the conversation is like, that's just a God thing. That's for sure a God thing. And you, is there something else on this journey that just jumped out at you?

Like you said something in the book, I'll just give you things that stood out to me about, you kind of spent your life like bracing for the next thing or this. And that word bracing even for me, like I kind of live that way too often where like I'm kind of going for the next thing but I'm also like bracing for the next thing that's going to be bad. And if I just brace long enough I'll be more prepared for it when it comes like if I get you. Totally. If I can think about enough bad crap that could possibly happen then when it happens

I'll be. Oh, slightly more prepared. Because I'm over here bracing for it. And it just debilitates your energy and robs the people around you. So what else in this journey stood out to you? Is it something like that? What was it, would you say? Yeah, I mean, I think I had spent so much of my life and I don't know if this resonates for you, but growing up with not a ton of stability as a child, I think that we do become like professional control freaks. Yes. I mean, like me becomes so good at bracing and like even while you're doing that, I'm like, I was feeling what you were like, I'm flexing, right? Like constantly flexing all the time and

participating whatever blows are going to come or disappointment or whatever instability is going to pop up. What I realized, and you just, you again nailed it, was the amount of energy required in rehearsing tragedy. And I think I was someone who was constantly rehearsing every single thing that could go wrong. And actually, and again, there is an upside to that. It makes us really f**king go to business. Because we anticipate every single thing that can go wrong

and we have a game plan for it. But I think that sometimes we try to unintentionally utilize the strategies that work for us professionally and we try to apply those to our personal lives. And oftentimes it's quite literally the antithesis. And so the things that made me successful professionally weren't always applicable to the people And we try to apply those to our personal lives. And oftentimes it's quite literally the antithesis. And so the things that made me successful professionally weren't always applicable to me personally.

And so the the bracing and anticipating, like there's a place in an arena for it where it is effective and necessary. But what I realized with every time I was doing that in my personal life, it was not only exhausting, but I really think that it siphoned off creativity. And when I say creativity, I mean like the flow, like the co-creation that we're doing

with the scene in the unseen world, like the co-creation with God, saying like how can I flow? How can I use a different modality of fake, believing in things that we can't yet see, of trust and surrender? Like all these things that I was like, yeah, yeah, I have those posters too.

You know what I mean? Like, I have those memes on my Instagram too. But I just didn't know how to like gracefully dance in the unseen world. And I think that that was the piece that stood out the most was what does it look like to anticipate and rehearse everything going really well? What does that look like? What does that feel like to be in like that frequency of surrender and trust? Because again,

I think as a child growing up in kind of an unstable house, you don't have a lot of trust. You think, you know, for me, I felt like everything was solely on me. And especially as an entrepreneur, like as a business person, you know, you're like wearing 15 different hats. And I think the idea that you can like trust that there is like an infinite army out there that's like rooting for you. And then everything you're chasing

is like chasing you just as hard back. And that God has such a divine plan that is unfolding in real time. So guess what? We get to relax. Like what does that feel like in your body to sit back and be like, oh, I can trust that like everything in divine timing is already on its way. And that everything happening to me is actually happening for me.

And that even in the heartbreak and the unknown, that there's like beauty on the other side of this, like that is a different, that is a different ecosystem to choose to live in. And I do believe it is a choice. And I think that that was the kind of grand gift and treasure throughout that journey was what does it look like to live from that place? Trust, surrender faith. This entire conversation has been a gift, seriously. I'm really grateful we did it. Can I encourage you to stay on this road? I don't mean the road of change. I think you're changing.

I mean this type of work. You don't need my recommendation, but I think there's another book in you as you even go deeper into this work. It's very needed. You are perfectly qualified to do this work. You're so articulate and so smart. And what you're saying is so true. I know it because I've lived it and trust me everybody. Today's conversation is one of those I would play again. And I would

definitely share it with people. This is really something to share. Sometimes you tell people, hey, share the show because it's good for the show. You should share the show because this would be good for people. So we really good for people. Alexis, I really like you and I'm really impressed and I really enjoyed today tremendously. I really like you so much. And I wanna like mirror back that gratitude,

because like you said, I realized how many people, you have such an incredible platform. And it is a gift to offer anyone like myself the opportunity to have a conversation and to invite me into your space. I just want to thank you. And like, like I said at the beginning, would enjoy that we have this like family connection. But yeah, I'm so grateful. So thank you. Well, now you and I have that connection. And by the way, trust me, it's honored.

It's an honor to have you on. I wish, by the way, I wish I could do 4,000 shows a year and everybody on it would be great. I just, I can't. And so, so grateful today happened. Everybody, please go get Joy Hunter. It's by Alexis Jones. You can follow her on Instagram, Ad Alexis Jones.

And I have a feeling this is the first of a couple of these books like this. I just have this in the audience. It's so good. Alexis, thank you for today. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, God bless everybody.

Max, out your life. This is the end of my lecture. you