THE ED MYLETT SHOW - Rising from the Depths: Transformative Strategies to Conquer Grief

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

You’re about to hear one of the most difficult but important interviews I’ve ever done. Recovering from the death of a loved one in the prime of their life is one of the most challenging things anyone can endure. But when that death is by suicide, and you’re a public figure with three children, the challenges are exponential. This week, I'm joined by Allison Holker, an extraordinary dancer known from "So You Think You Can Dance," who faced the unimaginable when her husband, Stephen “tWitch” Boss, tragically ended his own life. Allison's story is not just one of profound loss but also of resilience, healing, and the redemptive power of opening up about mental health. In this deeply personal and impactful discussion, Allison shares her ongoing journey through grief, providing insights that resonate with anyone facing their own battles with loss. This episode isn't just about coping with grief; it's about allowing grief to fuel personal growth and awareness. Here's what you'll gain from todays episode: Allison's insights on navigating heartache with children in the wake of loss The critical importance of giving and receiving love when you're naturally reserved How cherishing every second is a pathway to healing Strategies for slowly rebuilding your capacity for happiness and finding light after darkness. How viewing your life through a lens of beauty and appreciation can alter your healing journey The strength and comfort drawn from spiritual beliefs during the toughest times Managing relationships with those who give energy and those who take it away. Allison's openness offers hope and a roadmap for those navigating the murky waters of grief, particularly the unique sorrow that follows suicide. Her courage in sharing her story aims to light the way for others, emphasizing that while the pain might not completely vanish, the strength we discover in our darkest hours can lead to a personal transformation. Join us for a conversation that promises not just to touch your heart but also to offer real strategies for anyone dealing with grief to find a way forward. This is about more than survival; it's about learning to live again with joy, purpose, and gratitude. If you or someone you know is having a mental health emergency call 911 Or reach out to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline by dialing 988 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And you can get up to $4,100 with a new TD mortgage. Offer ends October 31st, 2024. Conditions apply. Visit td.com slash tdmortgagedirect. T.D. Mortgage Direct. This is the Ed Myron Show. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So I have to tell you,

I've been watching this lady's work for years, like watching her dance on TV, and I always thought how talented she was. But lately, I've watched her shift into a space. She's actually probably been thrown into a space that most people are never prepared for, but I've watched her rise with such grace, and I really believe she was called for this moment.

You've seen her on So You Think You Can Dance. She's a host, a judge this year on the show. You also probably know that you know she's had some tragic things happen in the last few years with DJ Twitch who she's married to, Steven. And we're just gonna talk today about her journey, her experiences, what she's learned. And I don't know there's anybody on the planet more qualified to have this discussion today than you. So Alison Holker, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. You've already been someone that is like so inspiring to talk with. So, it's already an enjoyable moment.

Thank you. I just told you this off camera. Every once in a while, a human being meets a moment in their life that they thought they were ill-prepared for, and then you watch them step into it. They may still have imposter syndrome, like, am I qualified for this or not? But the conversation about grief I want to talk about today, but also just like part of life, someone may not be going through grief listening today, but like they had a plan

for their life and they were pretty sure it was going to go one way. Yeah. And then in a moment it's not. And that happened with you. I'm just wondering, first off, where are you in your grief journey? Do you think you have a handle on where you're at? Are you still every day sort of, I thought I had it, now I don't? I think you're kind of in a state with grief where you always are hoping you're on the other side, but then you have moments that are reminders and triggers. What I can say is I'm better at handling those triggers now.

You know, it's never that it's fully gone. I always have memories that pop up that make me wanna cry or make me wanna laugh, but I've just learned how to control myself in it better You know I I'm a very disciplined person and I think the discipline of learning how to carry myself in my daily actions have really prepared me to Be a strong mentally spiritual person to be able to handle whenever those kinds of things pop up in my life So it's not that I'm not still dealing with it. It's just that I'm in more control of who I am in it.

Do you think you have to know why something happened to process it completely? Meaning, first off, do you think you understand what happened, number one, we won't go much further than that today, but like, do you understand what happened? And then, because I think sometimes maybe someone goes through a divorce, I don't even understand what happened? And then, because I think sometimes maybe someone goes through a divorce,

they don't even, I don't even understand what happened or their business failed. Do you have to, because I think our brain goes, I have to understand this before I can move past it. But do you think that that, do you think you understand what happened? And do you think that's even required to move past or through something? I think before all this happened to me, this is my first grief and my first trauma. So I never gone through anything like this, even into a small degree. And before this, I would have thought like,

oh, we have to have answers because I'm a very like solution-based person. So what happened? What's the solution to this? How can we make it better? What happened? What was the backstory? But now experiencing it,

I've had to learn and understand that we are not gonna know. And that is really, really hard to get over. What happened, the why, the could something have helped, what, you know, is there something I didn't know, is there something I knew and just didn't see, you know. It's all these things you kind of have to work past for yourself because at the end of the day,

that person is not here to tell me. And that is probably the hardest thing because I love someone so much and I did think that we were just gonna grow old together and watch our kids grow old together. And at the end of the day, I feel so side blind. And for me, I never got to have closure with him. And that is still something that's really, really sad to me

that I never got to have that. And my kids didn't get to have that because we didn't see this coming Mm-hmm, but at the end of the day, it's not my job to understand the why it's just my understanding that This was his choice doesn't mean it has to define my life from a kid's life moving forward So I'm trying to encourage myself to be like, you know what? I don't know why and a lot of people want to know why they want to ask me all these questions But I'm just like them.

I'm just as confused. But for my kids, I want them to accept that, and that it's okay. We just gotta charge forward and make our own decisions in life. So beautifully said. In many ways, externally, you're flourishing right now. Like, I see you succeeding in your career,

and then, to be honest with you, no matter what you ever do on television and the different great things you, you know, succeeding in your career. And then to be honest with you, no matter what you ever do on television and the different great things you have going on, the work you do right here is, it saves lives. Like I've had, I don't know, I've done like 600 shows. And so when I travel, people always ask me, what's your favorite show? Which is like totally disrespectful

to all these amazing guests I've had on, right? But I can tell you what my favorite show was. And it's the person that had the smallest social media following. I had a woman on my show named Kayla Stockline many years ago, and I think when she came on the show she had 2,000 followers on social media, and she was a pastor's wife, and he ended up

passing by taking his own life. And the reason that I had her on the show was I wanted people to understand that you don't have to process all of the grief to move forward in life. And also, I want anybody contemplating it, quite frankly, to understand the impact that it had on her children and whatnot. Yes.

So that was my favorite show and the most impactful show. And so I'm just wondering what you would say to somebody, there's someone right now listening to this or knows someone that is. They're considering something not real smart in their life. They're considering, I think most people, there's some stat out right now,

like 46% of all young girls under 18 have considered suicide in the last year, right? What would you say to somebody who's just having those types of thoughts? Because you've lived with the consequence of a loss in your life with your children. What would you say to someone that's thinking those thoughts? Being brutally honest, you're affecting every single human

you've ever touched in your life. Wow. Because truly, you can love someone so much and be so loved, and if you don't see that all those people you've affected Are now going to live with some sort of trauma And every single one of those people go through a moment everyone even even miniscule When something like this happens every single person that you've been involved with or just friends with or family with or or just an associate at work Everyone's gonna think back of what if I did something different?

What if it was me? What if it's something I said? What if I caught something? And then you're so you're now having everyone internalize and judge themselves thinking maybe it's their fault. And that is a really hard place to put someone in. Because I've had to have these kind of tough conversations with my kids, even my seven year old boy has been like mommy, if I was just nicer.

And it's a tough conversation to have with someone because you have to allow them to feel it because it's a very real feeling. But it's not their fault. But it's really hard for someone to not believe that with someone that they're so close with and they're trying to comprehend How could someone do this? Why did this happen? It must have been something I did and it's it's I've done that on all my kids

I've done everyone around me. I had an assistant Who was like what if I would have just said something better that morning? I was like no no no we can't do that to ourselves Because at the end of the day this was someone else's choice has nothing to do with us But even having someone have to go through that and all that trauma from themselves. It's asking a lot of people You know and wow, it's it's a tough thing to have people really Start questioning who they are in it because it's not them. Oh my gosh, we could stop right now. I'm emotional, that makes, there's two things about you that make me emotional.

One is what you just said, and then I prep really hard for interviews. So I've watched a lot of things you've said and talked about. And something like really stood out to me that you said about Steven, and I wanna talk about it for a minute if you don't mind. And here's what you said, because I suffer from this.

And so now I'm gonna flip it for those of you that, I'll see if you all relate to what I'm about to say. What I heard you say was that he was this loving and giving and amazing man. However, he had a hard time receiving love from other people. I just got chills all over my legs. And I have been open on my show about this fact. I just got chills all over my legs.

And I have been open on my show about this fact. I almost think I give an abundance of love and attention to other people, almost to compensate for the fact that I just very rarely allow myself to feel loved by people. And I have so many that do love me. And it's not, it's not, like I feel like they don't love me. I just don't feel loved.

And when I said it, I wonder how many people live like that. Could you just talk about that for me? Because it's something that deeply impacts me. I'm like, I have this amazing life and these amazing people. But I don't just allow myself the gift of feeling loved sometimes by the people who love me the most. So hey guys, as you know, I've partnered up the gift of feeling loved sometimes by the people who love me the most. Influencers there's an opportunity for you to get courses that would cost thousands of dollars completely for free. It's incredible Go to growth day comm forward slash ed and check it out

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They've got these toothpicks in their mouth. I'm like, what are you guys doing? They're like, dude, Zypex. I'm like, what is that? The more I dug into it, I'm like, wow, this is a really interesting product because here's what it does. Zypex toothpicks give you an easier and better and more discreet way to help you get your fix. They're also one of the most effective nicotine products on the market. Zypex also offers caffeine and b12 infused toothpicks if you're not a

nicotine user or if you're trying to get away from your nicotine habit. Ditch the cigarettes, ditch the vape and get some nicotine infused toothpicks at ZypexToothpicks.com today. Get 10% off your first order by using the code MyLet, M-Y-L-E-T-T at your checkout. Your lungs will be glad you did it. Must be 21 or older. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Zip more, smoke less with Zipix nicotine toothpicks. Steven had a really hard time accepting compliments or accepting how talented he was or accepting how many people he was impacting. He was always like no no no I can do

better I need to be a better human I need to give back more or no I'm not not good enough right now even when it came to dance he'd be like no I need to be training again like I've really'm not good enough right now. Even when it came to dance, he'd be like, no, I need to be training again. Like I've really fallen off. Like he was so hard on himself. So when he would receive compliments, he would almost throw it back off of him. And not just by Nick not accepting it. Like he'd be like, I need to give that love to someone else.

And he constantly pushed himself to make everyone else happy around him. And I think he just kept throwing out, throwing out without filling his cup. And it's not because he wasn't receiving that love. He was receiving an abundance of it from everywhere. Everyone adored him, it's because he was, but he was constantly being like,

I don't deserve this, I don't deserve this. So I just feel like he kept depleting himself of it. You know, a lot of people think- Great word, great word. A lot of people think that he had this really extroverted personality because he was Twitch. But if you knew him, if you knew Steven,

he was an introvert. If he would go to a party, he'd be the one in like a corner reading a book. I relate to all of this. He did. You know, and so there was times I look back and I'm like, oh, I wish, I wish he would have been like, I need more help

Through this instead of trying to do on his own but he'd come home from giving all this energy and giving so much love or he'd be like I need a second and he goes sit in the corner in the dark and My kids and I you know He would always tell us like his safe place was our home because we would let him have those moments and now I look back I'm like if we would have just pushed him to get therapy through that but he always was like no no no I just need to like recharge myself you would always say like no no I just need a moment like mm-hmm you know so I thought he was like in meditation reading his book kind of

building himself back up just because he is an introvert so every time he was giving all this love and giving all this energy it really wasn't him it was taking a lot for him to do it. And then I think also on top of that, that's the thing that everyone would compliment him on is, oh, you're the most loving, you're the most joyous, you give so much to everyone that I feel like he would never let him take a day

to not do that because well, that's not Twitch. Twitch is a giver, Twitch gives love, Twitch gives energy, he gives joy. And so he'd push himself every single day to the umpst agree, even at the grocery store. Like, he would give everything to everyone. And I even would tell him that that's your gift. And sometimes I'm like, oh, like,

I would just encourage him to be like, you are this way, but you hold on to some for yourself. Oh, my gosh. You know, because I just think he had this spirit But it was he was building himself up by thinking if I give it I'm a better person Yeah, you know and and and if I'm honest, I thought that was a beautiful thing and I still do but now I've just learned the other side that like You have to be able to hold on to love and know that you deserve it. When someone's giving you a compliment,

just say thank you. When someone's hugging you, just receive it instead of pushing the energy back onto them. You know, and allow yourself to feel that I think also he didn't love himself, which is maybe why he didn't accept it. Because he was constantly on this journey of being the better human, the better this,

the better that. Instead of just being like, you know what's interesting? I'm kind of jumping now. One of my the better human, the better this, the better that. Instead of just being like, you know what's interesting, I'm kind of jumping now. One of my really good friends in the day was like, Allison, do you ever just tell yourself you love yourself? I was like, I don't think I've ever done that. And it's not that I don't think I, you know, I think I love myself, but I've never just said it to myself.

And now I'm making a conscious effort to do it. Cause like sometimes I look at Stephen's position, I'm like, did you ever love yourself? Why didn't you feel like you could receive this love? You know? Alison, maybe that's the most impactful five minutes for me ever on my show. I relate to every single word you just said.

Every single word that you just said, from the introvert part to the putting it out to depleting yourself and I have to think if you're driving in your car right now or you're listening to this if you relate to any pieces of what she just described you need to evaluate that you need to love yourself you need to be willing to give yourself the gift I'm telling you you're stepping into your power right now the the fact that you can articulate that in a way that hits me so deeply, I relate to every, excuse me, sorry, it gives me emotional, every single word of it.

And I think so many people deplete themselves. And I don't know what happens in the worst moments when someone makes these decisions, I don't know, I know you don't know, and we're not here to figure that out today. But I wonder in some cases if they've just literally depleted themselves completely. Right? She's nodding in affirmation with it like they just they just become that empty tank almost. I wonder if that's what happens. Because they're such a lover. You know, a lot of people look at it as, you know, a pain and ugly thing. But he was such a lover of life and people and he was someone that made you feel seen. I think that was his gift.

He could really see into you. And you know, there's very rare people that like you meet that make you become a better person from just being around them. I wonder if that part, the other part you said of being the better you, being the better you. Obviously I'm one of the champions of that in the world. I have a good friend who's going to therapy right now

and he's like, I gotta fix this, I'm all screwed up. I said, what if it's that you aren't all screwed up, but you just wanna be better? In other words, sometimes, by the way, I'm a huge advocate for therapy, heck, one of the sponsors here is a therapy sponsor, right? But I also think sometimes we go there, I'm a mess, fix me. What if it's like, I'm great as I am,

I just wanna be better. And every once in a while I think everybody in life, I'm a mess, fix me. What if it's like, I'm great as I am, I just wanna be better. And every once in a while I think everybody in life and I'll let you speak to it. Yes, we wanna grow and expand and be better, but an acceptance and a love for who we are right now gives us the strength to be a catalyst to grow. If it's always that you're moving away because you're not good enough,

at one point you can't keep running away from yourself. You should be running towards who you want to become, but not away from who you are all the time. Does that make any sense? Yeah, no, it's interesting because I, truly honestly, for years I was like, oh, I can be a better person. I'm like really into self-help books

and like motivational speakers. I love to like always be pushing myself, you know, with life, with being a parent, with education, with career. I'm always pushing myself to like one-up myself all the time which is in a lot of ways why people succeed. It's why you're so successful. It's one of the reasons why you're so successful. But at the end of the day something I've learned that is probably the most powerful thing that I've learned for myself and I'm trying so hard to teach my kids is existence is enough. Just existing because life is the gift. So for me what I'm trying so hard to teach my kids is existence is enough.

Just existing. Cause life is the gift. So for me, what I have learned is me just choosing to wake up and being present in the moment, I'm doing my job. That's all we're here to do is to experience. And so I'm trying to remember that like as much as I want to push myself, me just being right here in this moment, that's everything. And I get to do that every single day and make that choice just to be here

and show up and just experience whatever in this moment is supposed to happen from the universe. And I never felt that way before. I was always like trying to prepare for everything and like be the most educated in the room or the most blah, blah, blah. And it's like, no, just walk in. Just walk in. And I never and I never, I never understood that

and I just think that's a really powerful thing that people can find balance in because I think you should push yourself. But also if there's a day you just wanna be here, great. You're so right. I think there's seasons, right? I think there's seasons where you're like, I am ready to go and go to the next,

but when you never have an off season, which is something I've struggled with, I just have never had, I'm like, I'll get around to that off season where I'm just gonna be like, I'm pretty good right now for a while. I've just never gotten around to it. It's almost like running an engine full speed all the time. At some point you have to let it sit in neutral

for a little while and just heal up a little bit. I wonder one thing about you, by the way, one of my favorite things to do when I'm feeling bad, this just started lately, I'll just go to your Instagram and I'll just watch you dance. By the way, she's like this unbelievable dancer. But like, it's just like a break. I'm like, oh, that's a beautiful thing.

And it's like you're having a good time on Instagram. And I watched that and you're really giving me a gift when you do it. However, I wonder if there's, when you go through grief, is there a part of you that then feels guilty in the moments when you are happy? When you are enjoying yourself, like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this?

Do you have some of that? A thousand percent. I'll never forget the first time I laughed. And I was actually with my daughter. Luckily it was with my daughter who's 15, Wesley. She's such an amazing spirit and so well beyond her years in knowledge and experience. But it was about two months

after our situation happened with Steven. We were in our kitchen and we were actually discussing him. We were having like going over memories. And it was our first, we just busted out into laughter, like cackle laughing, and then we immediately stopped at the same time and we're like, is this okay? We didn't know if it was okay.

And then we had to process these emotions of telling each other and convincing each other like, no, this is good. I think it's okay that we're laughing. I think you want us to, but I'll never forget that moment in my kitchen, just us literally laughing and then stopping and immediately

feeling so bad and remorseful thinking it was such a terrible thing for us to do, because it wasn't that we were mocking him or anything. It was just we were talking about such a beautiful time with him. But then it still made us feel icky because is it OK? Yeah. And then we discussed it. We know we should. We should be having laughter again and smiling again. But there are definitely moments that not even just for myself, but I'll say, no, we should. We should be having laughter again and smiling again. But there are definitely moments that,

not even just for myself, but I'll say, for myself I sometimes feel remorseful that I'm moving forward and continuing to champion my kids to move forward. But I think the biggest thing is I get it from other people. I was gonna ask you that. Do you get some flack for that? Oh, I absolutely do.

So you get flack if you're having an enjoyable moment in your life because you had a tragedy in your life, you're no longer allowed to have an enjoyable moment. Am I understanding this? Yes. Really? Yes, it's been a really interesting journey as I've been trying to pivot myself into a forward motion

and help my children forward. There's been a lot of feedback from people we know, close ones, friends, family, people we don't know, associates, social media, of people being like, she's too happy, she seems okay. And it's not that I'm totally fine, it's that I have pockets of all the different emotions of crying in a corner, being really sad,

laughing with my kids, but then also just being completely angry. I feel like I'm experiencing all of it, but because I share more and more joyous times, people are very upset about it sometimes. And it's something that I've come to learn that because people are experiencing their own kinds of grief, they want me to be

where they are. Or wherever, any different experience that they're having. So it's usually people's own insecurities or where they are, but wherever, you know, any different experience that they're having. So it's usually people's own insecurities or where they are. But at the same time, it hurts, and it crushes me sometimes. And I've also come to realize that we really honor the dead more than we honor the living.

Wow! And it's, I live a lot of my life wanting to honor Steven, and a lot of people say to me like, oh, honor him every day, like you get up every day for him. And yes I do, but really I'm honoring my children and myself. And I've just come to know that a lot of people want to see me honor him for the rest of my life. And I will, but we could also honor the people

that are here and making conscious choices of living a better life. Wow, wow, wow. Wow. Yeah, that's amazing that you know first off what you just said is amazing but the notion that really all you should do on Instagram every day is bring us a bunch of pain and sadness and grief and as if that's the way that you honor somebody in your life. Hey guys, if you need to hire you need Indeed. You know in all of my businesses way that you honor somebody in your life. They are qualified but they're not interested in making the move at a given time. And so with Indeed you have a thing called instant match where they match you with quality candidates within 24 hours and you're in front of people that want the job, that are qualified for it and that you probably want to hire.

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Or I love this notion that it's netsuite.com slash my let. Or I love this notion that it's too soon. As if there's some time frame in which it's appropriate for you to have an enjoyable moment of your life or have some normalcy in life. Outside your home, someone's got some time clocking, okay, now you're allowed to. Yeah, and it's interesting because at the end of the day, I think sometimes because Stephen was such a prominent figure

and so idolized for beautiful reasons, I think sometimes people forget that I am still a mother. Sure. You know, even if I wasn't a mother, we should want people to move forward, but I am a mother. Right. So I need to encourage these three children

and be an example to them, but also help them to become better versions of themselves and know how strong they can be through this and that, but also help them to become better versions of themselves and know how strong they can be through this and that this does not define them. Beautifully said. You know, and so it's, I think sometimes people forget that for me.

They do, and by the way, that's huge. There's someone very close to my family who's lost his father in a similar way. And I love him, he's like a second son to me. And one of the things that I'm very careful about with him, by the way, this could be you come from a family where there was a divorce or someone went to prison, doesn't have to be the situation you went through.

But what happens with kids especially is, or even the spouse that's left behind is, that becomes their identity the rest of their life. Oh, she's that, or the kids, they're, at some point someone's allowed to establish their own identity in their life So always tell this young man that you're not just the son of someone who had this situation happen You're your own man You've got your own memories your own dreams your own life to live the best thing you could do by honoring him is

Not to be identified is that your your primary identity and whatever the loss is in your life everybody if you start to attach that previous time of your life as your identity I was a high school football player I was a quarterback I used to have a business I had a great relationship so and so on my family's passed away that identity keeps you locked into the past there's two frames of reference in life everybody there's people that live their life out of vision and dreams and there's people that live their life out of vision and dreams, and there's people that live their life out of memories and the past. And you are either one of those two types of people.

And even if they're good memories, they're memories, they're the past. The way you create new ones is not by always looking at the old ones. We all have those friends that are around us that go, you remember when, you remember when. And they're cool for a little while. But my favorite friends are like,

hey, what do you got going on right now? What are you excited about? Being present in the moment and thinking about the future. So I celebrate the fact that you do that and I hope that you do, you do more. By the way, one thing you have done to honor Steven is you have this book, Keep Dancing Through a Boss Family Groove.

You wrote that together? See, this is what most people don't know. So talk about, by the way, it's beautifully illustrated. By the way, those books aren't easy to do. They're expensive, by the way. Most people don't know this, but illustrated books, these things are pricey and very difficult to do. But I didn't, it was a great book.

I didn't know you did it together. Yes, we wrote back in, I believe, 2021 into 2022. And it was a testament to our family. We wanted to share a day in a life with us because we do and always did believe together in teaching our kids about affirmations. Every single day with my kids, like even this morning, it's like, I'm strong, I'm smart, I'm beautiful, I'm kind.

My son, it's, I'm handsome. And then I always say to them, we do that. And they finish out with saying, the hard things. It's really cute. I love that. Yeah, and then our do that, and they finish out with saying, the hard things. It's really cute. I love that. Yeah, and then our words become, and they say, our reality. So, because I want to encourage them to always talk kindly to themselves.

But we wrote that to encourage parents to do that with their kids, to get their kids learning how to be kind, and that the people that are talking to you in your head all the time is yourself. And so you have to encourage yourself and be your biggest champion. So we wrote this and it just follows each one of our kids going through very, very lighthearted complications

in their day. But the fact that you can lean on each other with using encouraging words, and not just coming from the parents. We actually, in the book, wanted to also just show the siblings can do it with each other and support each other in it. That's a rare thing in the world today, right? We all have kids like actually a brother saying something nice to their sister. That's something we should actually encourage a lot more. I love that.

Yeah, and so we were so proud of this book. It'd been a dream of mine to write a children's book since like I mean since I had my daughter Wesley I'd always wanted to do it and share that and just for us because you know books is a big thing in our family So I just thought it'd be a really nice thing to do. Um And I'm really proud of it because it was scary to put this out there. I'm truly it was really scary You know, there's always like backlash anywhere and with any choices you make but I was like again, you know We keep talking about purpose and God and in the life I'm now in and it just felt like a message that was too strong to not be received.

I mean, the title of the book Keep Dancing Through, when I read it, I was like, yeah, I am. I'm going to keep dancing through and I hope to help others. And you know, it's not even, I would like to say selfishly, it's for me and my kids, but really, it's also for everyone that's followed our family. I was on TV the first time when I was 18 years old. Stephen, I think we're on the same age his first time being on TV and you know we've had people following us this whole time and championing us and cheering us on and they've had a hard time from this as well. I don't look at

anyone's grief as being more less or more important than the others and I was like even for other people that have followed and my family from when it was just me being a single mom to then marrying Steven, then having more kids, all those people that have been rooting for us that are affected by this as well, this is kind of a chance for me to say like, hey, you can also keep dancing through this.

I love the title of the book. There's a great quote, I'll mess it up, but by Gandhi Gandhi where he says, I will not allow you to walk through my mind with your dirty feet. And it's such a great quote, right? Which I probably just messed up. But the whole point of it. I know, I need to write that one down. That's really good. And people do this to us all the time, criticism. But oftentimes we do it to ourselves. As I've looked back through my own life, the reason I do this work is too many times that person walking through my mind with their dirty feet has been me in my life. And so that's why these affirmations,

these things that we say to ourselves matter. Overall, how has this changed you? Like overall, having this experience, has it changed you from your faith? Has it changed your perspective on life, what matters? How has it altered you, do you think? Or do you not know yet? I think I'm trying to figure that out, actually.

I love that kind of a question because I love when I have a question, I'm like, I don't know exactly how to answer that. But what I have learned is that life is so beautiful. And there's this thing I love to say. I used to say it and now I'm saying it again. Romanticize your life. Romanticize it. Your whole face just changed. I love to say I used to say and I can now I'm saying it again romanticize your life

face just changed like Everyone and to some degree is going through something. They're going through a pain grief a breakup a trauma Unfortunate experiences Everyone's experienced something and no one's is more important or less important Who are you gonna be after? What are you gonna choose to be? What do you choose to do with it? What do you choose? to Encourage your life further and move into a different path of yourself And even going back a little bit to what you said is something. I've been working on the last couple months is Who am I now? And I think I'm a better human. I think I am a lot more conscious in just what

existing is. And I am more grateful every single day. I didn't go the opposite way. I went more, I've always had a lot of gratitude for life but now it's different. I'm so grateful for the chance to wake up every single morning and make choices. And I'm also grateful to experience really awful, terrible things. Because how am I gonna get through this? I can get through this, I can choose a different life,

I can make a lesson of it, and I can encourage other people to not do this, I can encourage people to live this way, and I just choose to, I don't know. It's such a complex question for me. It's a lot of things, but I also don't have the exact answer. I'm gonna give you a weird one. This is one like people are gonna go,

this is a bizarre thing to say, but if you actually think about it, I might be right. Some of the most difficult things I've gone through in my life, and I've not had to gone through what you've gone through, so I don't wanna equate those at all. In some weird way, one of the ancillary gifts God's given me through them

is some of the pressure's off me now. And what I mean by that is like, like you're so successful in your career. But I'll bet before this that success in that career probably meant a little more to you than it does now. It almost like takes the pressure off. Like you kind of start to understand there's an end to this for all of us

It's gonna be okay either way and to some weird way even when my dad passed away He lived a full life, but it's straight one of the tiny gifts was some of the pressure was off me Like I watched this man. I love like his career mattered But at the end like how much did it matter? Yeah saying and so in some odd way It's almost like I'm just running up the score you know what I'm saying? In some odd way, it's almost like, I'm just running up the score. I get to run up the score, either way I win, I'm alive. Does that make any sense at all?

It takes some pressure off in odd ways. I actually do, I maybe even answered kind of like what I've been feeling without being able to articulate it, but it is, it's more of like, whatever I'm doing daily, whatever I'm doing with my kids, whatever I'm doing with my career, whatever I'm doing with my career, none of it really matters to me except

what's the energy and vibration to bring to it? Yeah. What are people gonna walk away after they meet me? Like, meet me. You know, because it's like you might not remember my words, you might not remember, you know, the cool dance I did, or what I said on this cool TV show. What is the feeling I gave you?

Did I help your life? Did I encourage you? So it's more of like the vibration I'm sending to people that I worry about now. Yeah, I can tell you, you're changing and saving lives today. That's no exaggeration. You're literally changing and saving lives, and it's abundantly obvious to me

that in some way, one of the gifts of this is that you were chosen for this moment. It's impossible not to be true. The way you articulate, the depth of what you say, what you feel when you say it, this is clearly a human being, a beautiful human being, who has been chosen for this moment and this calling. And it's odd because even whatever I've been chosen for,

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See eBay Motors. What about your faith? Has it changed, you and I, can I say who your pastor is? Yeah, of course. Yeah, your pastor's one of my great friends, Earl McManus. Has it changed your faith, your view? Because for a lot of people, they might go through this

to like, they doubt God. I've been going to the Mosaic Church for years. You know, there was like during 2020, obviously that kind of like pivoted me off a little bit just because we couldn't go. So I got a little bit off of the habit of going like on a regular basis to the actual church. And I've been so grateful

to really find myself back there again. He was one of the first people I called to talk to as I knew I needed him. He's just such an incredible spirit with such encouraging words and honesty too. And he'll go there with you into depths and ask the right questions and help you navigate this space from a really healthy, healing manner.

And I go all the time now, I stay really good in touch with them because I do need them. I don't think before I was willing to admit that. Like when I started going back to church, it was just like, oh, I enjoy being here. It's a great energy, you know? And like, oh, I'm going with my friends.

Now I'm willing to admit that, no, I need this energy in my life. It's necessary for my health. And I think just being a person that's always so independent and always doing all and always you know doing all the right things and doing my cold plunge and doing my like sauna time like oh I've got my life together I think being willing to say no I need this yeah this helps my soul this puts me in the right place was a hard thing for me to admit so that's the difference with my faith now is I need

it oh my gosh you're so awesome so awesome right, a couple more things. This flew by maybe faster than anyone that I've done. We've talked, I want to unpack, forget, let's step out of the grief world for a second. Yeah. We've talked a lot, you brought energy up a few times, it's one of my favorite topics because I am a Christian, I'm a person of faith, but I also cannot deny the frequency thing that you've and I discussed. Like truth vibrates at the highest frequency. Hope dreams vision encouragement vibrates. I Discouragement hate lack of tolerance vibrates real low and you can feel it someone who dances But you bring in energy you feel something when someone dances, right and I'm conscious of that too

What am I making somebody feel it's amazing to me how many human beings go through life and they don't understand. You're always making people feel something and being intentional about that matter. So just discuss, like, it could be from a dance perspective, how much you think energy, I think us not being conscious of our own energy reserves, the energy we put out, the energy we feel, the energy our environment brings to us, just energy in general is like life fuel. What would you say about that?

I believe in high vibration. I believe that people that are disciplined in their life create a lot of self care, self love, self compassion. And those people that are disciplined in their spiritual health, their mental health, their physical health, I just feel like they vibrate differently because they're confident. And they know themselves so well, and they know what they can bring to the table

that they're able to now give to other people. You know, it's a different kind of thing, because if you're someone that doesn't know yourself and you don't have discipline, and you're not making the right choices, you're not gonna be able to help someone else in that journey to become a better version of themselves. You have to be the better version of who you are

and really help everyone around you after that by not even having to do anything, but just vibrating higher, knowing who you are, knowing what you love, disciplining yourself every day, making the right choices, whatever your choices are, because everyone's choices are different. You walk into a room with a different kind of energy

that just affects everyone, and not from like an ego place of like, oh, I wanna be like them, they're so cool. Like, oh, I want to feel that way. Yeah. What are they doing? Yeah. And then if you're someone that they actually,

you know, are willing to ask, you can say, oh well, you know, I do this, that, or the other. And for me, it's like, I've always been a very disciplined person, a very organized task oriented person. And I think that that a very disciplined person, a very organized task oriented person. And I think that that in my past, in that discipline, has what has really made me get to where I'm at today. Because even through this grief,

I've never lost out on my disciplines. Do you know what I'm saying? Like I work out every day, get in my sauna, I do the cold plunge, I am active in like my organization, my home is clean, I clean up after, those things, and maybe those aren't the same things that make other people feel like they have self-love,

but for me, not losing out on those things keeps me going every day. And it shows me like, okay, I did the hard thing today. I did things that most people will never do. And I made that choice, and I think when I walk into a room, I already know for myself, it's not about me being cool for people. For myself, I know I can show up. Because I know I deserve to be walk into a room, I already know for myself, it's not about me being cool for people. For myself, I know I can show up.

Because I know I deserve to be where I'm at, because I've worked really hard to be where I'm at. But not necessarily just the cool career. I've been working on myself. Yes, yep. And I think those people just have a different vibration about them because of different kind of confidence because you know, you know you're doing the work.

And you can believe in yourself and I can rely on myself. I don't rely on other people and I think you feel that from people. I don't rely, I'm not a, you know what it is, is almost like, oh this sounds terrible a little bit, but mostly energy vultures. People that need to take from your energy. But then there's the other people, like no I can give you energy because I've worked on it. You know, I want to be one of those people. I want to be one of those people that walks in the room and I've done so much work for myself, but also can keep stuff for myself,

but I can give back to everyone. I think you are. I think you are that person. You know, one thing to check everyone that was listening, I was thinking about what you were saying for you parents. It's easy to slough that off. Hey, I'm an energy giver.

I'm not an energy taker. But then evaluate every area of your life. You said something earlier in the interview where Twitch would come home and go, hey, just give me a moment, I'm gonna an energy taker. But then evaluate every area of your life. You said something earlier in the interview where Twitch would come home and go, hey, just give me a moment, I'm gonna be alone. One of the things I evaluated later, and it really bothers me to this day is, I didn't always bring that energy to my home.

Meaning I gave so much out into the world, right? Do you relate to this? Like so much out into the world that when I got there, I was almost like, okay, I'm here to rest and recalibrate. Forgetting my daughter and my son needed that. My wife needed it, my mom, my sisters, they needed that energy from me.

And that was the place I showed up as loving and caring and joyous, but I didn't show up with the energy at home because I was so depleted. That's why what you said earlier meant so much to me. I was so depleted and it wasn't until, I don't know if my daughter said something one time, like daddy, you're so, with everybody else, you're tired.

I'm like, wow, like I don't bring it here like I should. And I made that change. You look like you wanted to say something about that. Yeah, I know. That, hearing that, I don't think I'd ever thought about that for the same case with Stephen. So I just, I related with what you just said. Yeah, that's why I related so much with what you had said earlier, because it's like in

every area but where. Because it was when I came through the door, that's where I would recharge. And if I could go back, I would be more conscious of what they were feeling energetically as well. I was a hug my daughter and love my son but it wasn't the same as some stranger on the street. I'm pouring into them, hey how you doing? And then I come home like hey guys. You know it wasn't the same. Give dad a minute. I'm gonna recharge for a second and when I walked through that door they needed my energy. Yeah. And so it's just something that you know if I evaluated as I got older. Alright last question.

Kind of a broad one. By the way, you're amazing. You're amazing, this conversation has been amazing. I also know when I'm meeting somebody who's at the beginning of a journey thereon, I'm not talking about your healing journey, that'll happen forever. I'm talking about this thing we're now doing together.

You're gonna be a staple in this space somehow. I just feel it, like you're called to this. It's almost like an anointing that you have. Someone's going through something right now. They just had a big setback. Could even be in the last week or month or year. A passing in a family. A business failed. They lost their job. They've gained a bunch of weight. Whatever it is, right? They're just like, I am down right now. And I need some direction or some words or some wisdom, some energy, whatever it might be.

I need to pick myself up and start over again. What would you say to that person? I know that's a tough one. I mean, it's a really big question, but I think you kind of even answered it in the question. Stand up and start. Everyone had setbacks. The only great people in the world

that did something had setbacks. And they're the ones that persevered forward. And you're gonna do it alone. You will, and you have to. The people that are great and made change in the world were the people that everyone couldn't stand behind. Made fun of, thought were silly for their choices, tried pulling them back down when you tried to get back up.

You just gotta do it alone and be okay with that. It will make you a stronger human. You just gotta go. You know, I tell my kids all the time, just show up. There's never a time, you don't wanna go to the gym sometimes, you don't wanna go to work sometimes. You're gonna have those hard days, but if you show up, you'll be fine. So show up.

Such a great answer because I think there are days for you, I imagine, where you're like, I'm just gonna get up today and go and we'll see where the day takes me. And it's those days where you're like, no, I'm gonna lay here and wallow in it. By the way, maybe there's a day or two where you do need to do that, but there's something about, you can't teach someone to drive a parked car. You got to get in motion. You got to make mistakes mistakes, you gotta get back in the groove, in the rhythm and the energy. And I know it sounds cheesy, but truly,

like dance is a great metaphor for life. When you get moving, it's pretty difficult in motion to feel bad. It just is, it's just, get in motion, get your body moving, go work out, take a walk, take a run, just dance alone, it's okay. Do something to move yourself. I mean the thing is that's even crazy

with you saying all that and what I even just, it's also not to say by just starting and showing up that you're not gonna come right back down too. You have to just be okay with that. Yeah, okay. You have to be okay with the fact that you're gonna go up, you're gonna get to where you wanna go, you're gonna achieve something,

then you're gonna have a moment you come back down. Life is waves, constantly in motion, you know? And it has to pull back, it has to pivot you forward, it has to pull you back, it has to pivot you forward, because that's what we're here to do. Thank you for bringing your A game today. Thank you for that. Thank you for bringing your energy.

Sometimes I do shows where I go, everyone's gonna get so much from this, which for sure just happened. And then there's other ones that I do where I go, everyone's gonna get so much from this Which for sure just happened and then there's other ones that I do where I go everyone's gonna get so much from this But like I got a gift You know like I got a gift personally from doing the show today and you you you gave me a gift today in many many ways So you made me reflect and think and get better and this is one of these I guarantee I'll be thinking about for quite a while. So thank you for today. Thank you. It was for having me I loved it. So that's Allison Holker everybody. So you think you can dance you can follow her there follow her on social media

I have a feeling you're gonna be hearing a lot more from her in this world So, please stay tuned share today's episode with somebody or everybody that you love and that you believe in God bless you everybody Max out.