THE ED MYLETT SHOW - Scientists Have Reached a Key Milestone in How to Reverse Aging

Episode Date: September 7, 2024

Prepare to dive into the groundbreaking realm of reversing aging! In this electrifying mashup episode, I'm joined by visionary scientists David Sinclair and Sergey Young, as we unravel the secrets behind scientific advancements that promise to turn back our biological clocks. This isn't just science fiction—it's the dawn of a new era in longevity research. We'll explore cutting-edge discoveries like the Horvath clock, a revolutionary method that predicts biological aging more accurately than ever before. Here's what you'll discover: - The Importance of Biological Markers: David Sinclair sheds light on how we might not just slow down aging but potentially reverse it, using interventions that modify our biological markers. - Understanding Biological Aging: Learn the mechanisms that signal our biological age and the pioneering techniques to manipulate these markers. - The Power of Caloric Restriction: Sergey Young breaks down why reducing caloric intake isn't just about losing weight—it's about gaining years of healthy life. - Future of Longevity: We'll discuss the potential of emerging technologies and lifestyle changes that could extend our healthy lifespan by decades. This episode is a must-listen for anyone fascinated by the potential to enhance their healthspan and challenge the traditional boundaries of aging. Join us as we decode the science that could redefine old age, offering a future where living healthily into our 100s might just be the norm. Tune in to transform your understanding of aging and learn how to embrace the promising future of longevity! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey everyone, welcome to my weekend special. I hope you enjoy the show. Be sure to follow the Ed Mylett Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. The man to my right, I chased down today because today's show is for me everybody and you guys get to listen in. Because we're gonna talk about anti-aging.

We're gonna talk about living longer. We're gonna talk about living better. And the man to my right is the foremost expert, I think, on the spinning earth today in this area. And an unbelievable bestselling author, international bestselling author of this book, Lifespan, everybody, that I want you to get, why we age and why we don't have to.

And that's what we're gonna talk about today, is you not having to age and how we can help you with that. So Dr. Sinclair, David, thank you for being here. Call me David, thanks Ed for having me here. Going forward, it will be David. I wanna talk first off about aging and how we measure it. Because I'm not sure, if we're gonna not age or we're gonna reverse our age,

there has to be a calibration method. And I'm wondering when you do that, is that telomeres, cause I know you talk about the Horvath clock also in your book. How do you measure aging? Well, we used to just look at people and that person looks kind of old, that person doesn't.

Then we had telomeres, which was all the rage in the 1990s. Actually, telomeres aren't the whole rage anymore. There's a new way of measuring aging. And it's this Horvath Clock you mentioned. So the Horvath Clock has revolutionized our ability to design ways to slow down and in my lab accelerate aging. We can measure it. I could take your blood today, maybe I should,

take some back to my lab, and I could measure your actual biological age. So forget about candles, they're irrelevant. I could measure this Horvath Clock, and I could tell you not just how old you are biologically, but how long you're going to live and when you're gonna die. When you're gonna die. Yeah, very accurately.

It's scary, but this clock actually tells us, I think, about what the process of aging is, why do we age in the first place. So it's not, telomeres is sort of old school now, is that what you're saying? Well, you know, I try not to just be black and white about this, but telomeres is certainly not the whole story of aging anymore.

So in general, then we're going to get very specific. Why do we age? How do we age? Well, so this is what's in my book, which is I've kept bottled up an idea about aging, and we studied it for 10 years and kept it secret, and it all just flowed out onto the page in the book, and we have all this research to back it up. What I'm proposing is that there are lots of different causes of aging.

Telomere loss is another, is a main one. There's stem cell loss, senescent cells, so zombie cells that accumulate, all these things. We actually, as a field, I'm a scientist, first and foremost, we declared victory over aging about 10 years ago. We said there are eight causes of aging. Let's put them in a pie chart. We're done. We know what causes aging.

And I'm there thinking, that's great. But what causes those things? Is there a unified theory of aging? And that's what I've got in the book. It's called the information theory of aging. And it can explain I think why all of those things happen. So instead of building nine dams or eight dams on eight tributaries We may be able to go all the way up and stop the main driver of what causes us to get old Hmm, so I want to go through a couple of things by the way the book by the way now has an audio version That's been updated as well

And I really recommend you all if you have the book is go get a look at the new audio book and listen to that Because there's a whole new thing in their book there that he's added as well. But I want to go through some of the basic things you've covered because some of these things I do and I'm wondering if they're still effective and I'm wondering if I shouldn't be doing them anymore. But one of the things I was prescribed, I have had touch of arteriosclerosis in my life and one of the things my cardiologist was concerned about was inflammation in my body. And so I was prescribed Metformin in an effort to reduce inflammation in my body. And I'm wondering all of your thoughts on Metformin, because it's part of the book,

and it's also part of a lot of the conversation about anti-aging, glucose regulation, and those kind of things. Yeah. So the thing with Metformin that everyone needs to know, and will know if they get the book, is that there are three main ways to slow down aging, three genetic pathways. I work on one pathway called the sirtuins, which we can talk about later, but there are crocks of defending against aging. There are two others.

One responds to how much protein you eat, and the third responds how much energy, chemical energies in your body. That's metformin. So metformin will trick your body into thinking there's not enough energy and it'll respond and actually make your body, we think, fight against aging and particularly type 2 diabetes. So metformin is a drug that came out from the French lilac. It's originally a natural molecule, but it was tweaked a bit, so it's now a drug. You need a prescription. But I'm shocked.

Are you still taking Metformin? I'm not. Ah, well, all right. We need to talk. But I'm not an MD. Why should we talk? Should I be still taking it? I don't make any recommendations.

In general? But what I do is I take it. You do? Yeah, I don't leave home without it. Can I tell what I do is I take it. You do? Yeah, I don't leave home without it. Can I tell you why I stopped? And you can correct me. Sure. Okay. I stopped because I started to read at least anecdotal evidence,

because I do lift weights. Yep. I'm an athlete. I'd like to think of myself as an athlete, even though I'm pushing 50 years old, that it may have some negative implications on athletic performance and or recovery. All right. So now we're really jumping in fast. Okay, here we go. All right, so I know what that is.

I've been waiting for today for a long time, sorry. Yes, metformin, what it does is it inhibits your mitochondria, it makes your body think you don't have enough energy, and your body will respond accordingly, and you become what's called insulin sensitive, you'll have low glucose levels in your body, and it'll prevent type 2 diabetes.

What we also know from studies of 10,000, up to 100,000 people in some studies, people who take metformin seem to be protected, not just against diabetes, but against heart disease, cancer, frailty, and Alzheimer's. That's all good. That's what you find in an anti-aging or longevity pill. Metformin's great because it's, as far as we know,

pretty safe. It's been taken by probably 100 million people around the world. It's on the list of the World Health Organization's list of essential medicines for humanity. So it's pretty good. You're not going to die from it. It's very rare.

Consult a doctor, as you did. But I was surprised that your doctor put you on Metformin, even though you didn't have diabetes. it's very rare. Consult a doctor as you did, but I was surprised that your doctor put you on Metformin, even though you didn't have diabetes, that's very rare. The reason was, and I won't say her name, but I think she's sort of at the cutting edge of this, and she really does believe that one of the greatest risks to my health or anybody's health is developing type two diabetes.

Great, so your doctor knows a lot more than most doctors? Correct, most cardiologists, it's Lipitor and Crestor and don't eat a steak. Exactly. And their view, and I train a lot of doctors and work with them, but their view is unless you pass the threshold of a disease, we won't treat it. But metformin will prevent diabetes as well and get your glucose levels. And actually the best predictor of longevity right now, besides this clock, is your blood glucose levels. You want to keep them down.

You do not want to go up. And I was going up and up and up, so I started taking metformin a couple of years ago. You do. And ostensibly my biological age, based on different tests, not the clock, but the other tests, went from 58 down to 31.4. It's incredible.

And you look 31.4 and I look 58, so I need to get back on metformin. No, I was joking with 58 so I want to I need to get back on that for With Ed that I needed to wear this pattern suit so that I don't look such a wimp Oh, you know you're looking great. Thank you, but let's get back to the muscles. So this is called Hypertrophy muscular hypertrophy, which is great I would love to look like you and I just don't have the time to do it But but it's it's great plus you you will be much stronger when you're older, which is key to living longer.

Bone density, things of that sort. All of that's great, and actually one of the things we like to say in my field is, the best way to live a long life is to hang on to the handrail, which basically means don't slip and break your femur or your done for like my grandmother. But let's get into something really important.

A lot of people aren't sure about metformin because there were two studies just this year that showed that it slows muscle hypertrophy. But here's the good news. And I know the world's experts in this and I've talked to the authors of the paper. So here's the scoop. First time. You're getting this the first time. What they found, and this is also work that's not yet out, so let me give you a scoop. The patients that got metformin and those that didn't, they all got bigger muscles and they all got stronger. One group got slightly bigger muscles, that was the group on placebo, and those on metformin

didn't get so big. But when they did the strength test, they were equal. So they're all strong. they may not look as good, so I think it's a vanity versus longevity decision, but I think there's a way around this as well. Now we're on the cutting edge, so we don't know for sure, but what I do is when I work out, I stop taking metformin,

let my body recover for a couple of days, and then I go back on it. And you know, Peter Atiyah, the good doctor who studies this, we both agree that you don't want to be taking the same medicine every day necessarily, just as you don't want to work out every day, you need to give your body a rest. So we cycle these things. So in between workouts, if someone works out, let's say Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you might suggest that the workout days specifically they not take something like metformin on

those days they train? Well that's what I do. Okay. That's based on everything we know in the world right now. Okay. And then, by the way, thank you for that. You guys, first off, I'm so grateful that you exist. Because, no, I, we're talking about this off camera too, that this whole field that you're

in is moving so quickly and you're at the cutting edge of it. And I think every person listening to regards to they wanna live healthier, they also wanna live longer, but as they live longer, they want to be able to, they wanna, I've already looked at it differently. I look different, I love my dad, but I look different at 48 than my dad did at 48. You know what I'm saying?

I think athletically, physically, my strength level, and I think what's possible with somebody like you, like right now, if someone did all the things that are in your book, if they put the right formula together, not only do you think they cannot be aging, but what's the window of time they might be able to reverse their aging by? I know that's by person by person, but in general, how many years can someone reel off their life or add to their life rather?

Right. Well, so someone like me doesn't typically exist because they're scared of what my colleagues, our colleagues will say, and it's pretty rough for a scientist to be out there talking about things that are really on the cutting edge and projecting into the future. And to some extent speculative still, correct? Right, right. Based on evidence, but speculative. But how selfish is it for me and my family to reap the benefits, we're all scientists

in my family, we're on similar programs, how selfish is that for me to keep that bottled up? I want to tell the world what I'm learning. It's wonderful. And we're in a world where now everybody can learn as fast as I'm learning and what I'm doing. And that's, I feel an obligation to do that. But what about talking about the metformin, the story? Two and a half years it says it takes off, or adds to.

So if you're- It can. Right, theoretically if you're 50, you're now 47 and a half if you're on the normal dose of metformin is what they're saying. But we don't really know what it's gonna do to diminish your ability to get type two diabetes, what that could do, heart disease, all the inflammation in your body

because of these glucose spikes, correct? Well, so here's the most important take home message is that only 20% of your longevity and how you'll feel when you're 70 and 80 and 90 is genetic. The rest is in your hands. Wow. Isn't that, that's liberating. Yes.

I mean, you can sit on the couch, you can eat potato chips, you can not exercise, you can eat whatever you want, but you're minimizing your potential. Right. And what we all have in our bodies, what we co-discovered in my lab is that there are genes that control how long we live. We work on these pathways. And what we've discovered is they don't just exist, they respond to how we live.

And what we want to do is trick our bodies into thinking there's adversity, biological stress, not emotional stress, but biological stress. So now we understand why does exercise make us healthier and live longer? Why does being hungry make us live longer? Why do all these things, eating good foods, it's because they're turning on these body defenses,

these longevity genes that we work on. And that's the revelation. They're in all of us, but they become complacent unless we trick our bodies into getting this feeling of adversity. So we call this hormesis. We trick our bodies into getting this feeling of adversity. Adversity. So we call this hormesis. Hormesis is what doesn't kill you, makes you live longer.

And that's the reason you should be running and getting out of breath. That's the reason you should be eating plants that are being stressed themselves. You get the benefits of those molecules that they make for their own benefit. We call that xenohermesis. Terrible, terrible word, but anyway,

it's good to eat stress plants. Like that's where I read red wines would, for you, we believe it's full of those molecules. Thank God, thank God. Yeah, so resveratrol, you'll remember we. Yes, where are you? So let's go there, you're famous for that. And I got the feeling lately,

maybe you're not as married to it as you once were, or am I incorrect about that? And then for those of you that are taking resveratrol, is it also not true that if you're not doing something that can make it bind to something, so that it can be absorbed by your body, do you mind talking about that for a second? Because people just kind of willy nilly take these pills,

I think to some extent, and think they're doing something. So A, do you still feel as strong about it as you did at one time? And B, could you tell us how to properly ingest it? Sure. Thank you. All right, so I also dodged the question, not intentionally, of how far can we slow and reverse aging?

You did, I'm sorry, you're right. I let you dodge that. Well, I try. Because I'm so fascinated. I worry because people will say, oh, how can you say that? Right. Right, so this is my best guess,

is that you can alter your lifespan at least a decade by how you live your life, maybe more. And my father is an example of someone who took life by the horns, changed his life. He's super fit, he's now 80, he's living life like he was 30 still, he's got no diseases. Is that right?

He just put his name on a wait list for his dream car. And I'm thinking, a wait list? You're optimistic. Yeah, that is awesome. He started a new career. Really, this is the future for all of us if we look after our bodies and do what we think is the right thing.

Love it. Right. So I think that 10 years is- 10 years is at least based on current science, something you could be doing. Right, and actually every four years longer we live, we gain another year. Just because the trajectory of the science,

how it's going. And we're gonna talk about CRISPR a little bit later, where we might be able to interrupt heart disease and some other things here going forward. That'll just, that'll extend life, my God, it could be three decades. But go ahead, go on resveratrol if you would. So resveratrol is this molecule in red wine

that is thought to protect the French from high-fat foods. And we discovered that it activates an enzyme in the body called Sirt1, one of these Sirt1 protective enzymes that's activated by hunger and exercise. So resveratrol we discovered as the first molecule that could mimic a caloric relief, caloric relief restricted diet and exercise.

This wasn't an excuse to just sit on the couch and eat pop a pill because we actually found that if you take, if mice took resveratrol and exercise. This wasn't an excuse to just sit on the couch and eat pop a pill, because we actually found that if you take, if mice took resveratrol and exercised and ate a healthy diet, they lived the longest. So it's a combination. But you wanna keep these enzymes active, because as we get older, these defensive enzymes

like Cert I, they go down in their activity. So there are two ways to keep Cert I super active, besides living the healthy lifestyle that many of us know about and is in my book, page 302, 303. Unbelievable. Jump to the, because some people, they want it, they just want the facts. Right, right. Just want the list.

Right. But resveratrol is a remarkable molecule because plants make it to survive, because plants have Sirt1 and longevity enzymes as well. Okay. But when we ingest that, we get the benefits. Right. plants make it to survive, because plants have sort of two and longevity enzymes as well. But when we ingest that, we get the benefits. So you said I was not as hot on that. What happened was, what happened was, all of us who have been blessed to be successful

in what we do, have gone through really hard times. And I had my moment, the worst time of my life, in 2010. So I'd spent the last- What was it, do you mind saying what it was? Yeah, sure. So I had discovered Resveratrol activates anti-aging pathways. We'd shown that it extended lifespan and everything from a yeast cell to a worm

to a fly to a mouse, protected them against a Western diet, and even extended their lifespan when we gave it to them every other day. That was great. We developed drugs that were showing efficacy, working in humans to treat a disease called psoriasis, which is inflammation on the skin.

Everything was looking like we were gonna be the first people to make a drug that treats aging on the market. And then a couple of companies, for reasons that we can only speculate, came out with their science and said, it's all wrong. Everything David said is wrong. I remember that.

It blew up. Yep, I remember that. It trashed the trials, and I was the pariah of the scientific world. And it was tough. I spent a week in bed, I couldn't get out of bed, it was real depression. And I was really angry with the world

I'll admit because it here. I am trying to do my best right. I'm putting my life aside I'm putting my family aside to help the world like you do. Yes Well, maybe not just family, but you know, we want to know exactly what you mean And it was and then everyone said haha, you're wrong. Screw you and it was tough But you know you my passion is to leave the world a better place. This is your calling. So I couldn't stay in bed.

That to me is worse than death, is just sitting there. Hope everybody just heard that. It really is, you gotta have, my mission is to change the world in this way. So I got out of bed and spent the next three years testing whether what these companies were saying, and I'll say who they were, Pfizer and Amgen, both didn't agree with us, but what it did,

and the silver lining was it forced us to do even better science and go back and test our hypothesis very, very rigorously. And we put out a paper in the journal Science, which is the best in the US, best in the world probably, showing that we were right, that resveratrol really was activating this enzyme and wasn't what the naysayers were saying. But you know what?

In the media there were crickets. No one cares about the comeback gun. They just cared about the fall. So what we've done over the last, what is it now, seven years is we've been testing this even more rigorously. I'll tell you what we've done. We've created a mouse, we can genetically create mice, with very specific changes.

We changed the mouse by changing one amino acid, one part of this protein. So you don't mind if I get a little bit technical here? Do it, please. So the enzymes are basically machines that change other proteins. And so at one, it's the traffic cop. It tells the body to fight diseases, fight aging.

But to do that, it has to move. It has to change things. And what it does is it has this active enzyme activity in the middle, that's its chest. But this arm is the activator. This is the accelerator pedal. So the accelerator pedal is pushed by resveratrol. Resveratrol come in, stick here, push the accelerator,

and now the CERT-1 enzyme is fighting against disease. Now we figured out that you can block this step by changing one little thing. Give it tennis elbow, can't bend the elbow. Now resveratrol cannot work anymore. So we made a mouse that was unable to bend this arm and activate. So the accelerator pedal, we took it out of the system. The mouse is otherwise normal. It doesn't have the accelerator pedal though. So if we're wrong and we give resveratrol to these mice, they won't live longer on a high fat diet, a Western diet. If we're wrong and we give resveratrol to these mice, they won't live longer on a high fat diet, western diet.

If we're right, resveratrol won't work at all. And we got the second result, 100%. And that's as close to proof that we were right in the first place. So what I'm hoping is that'll reinvigorate the field and we'll get those drugs back into those clinical trials. But I haven't been sitting on my hands. I've been working on other molecules that seem to have a lot of promise and maybe even

better than the original discovery. Such as? Well we call them NAD boosters or NADs. Some people call them NADs. So there are two ways to activate these these protective enzymes. One is the accelerator pedal. Yep. The other is the gas that comes in through here. And without either of those you don't have hyperactive system. And as we get older, we lose this NAD. So it's estimated that by the time you're my age, 50, and you're getting close,

you have about half the levels you did of NAD when you were young, when you were 20. So of course your defenses against aging are gonna be about half the levels that they were. So there are some ways to keep your NAD levels relatively high. One is to exercise, lose your breath, work out. Lose your breath. You said that a couple times. You want to lose your breath. So not walking cardio, lose your breath cardio. Yeah, that's

the best way, at least based on the animal studies we've done and some human studies. And then the second is you want to be hungry at least part of the day. And that'll raise the levels of... What do you mean by that? So do you believe in intermittent fasting? Or do you- I do. You do? I do. We used to restrict calories the whole day

in these, what we call calorie restriction. And that was the paradigm for about 70 years actually. And then in the last 10 years we've realized, hey, you don't need to always be hungry. You can actually eat a decent meal or two. But don't eat three meals a day. Don't always snack. Because being hungry is what turns on these protective enzymes. And so I've now shifted my life to eating small meals.

I now, what I do is I skip breakfast as best I can, eat a very late lunch or even forget to eat lunch, and then eat a normal dinner. This is more and more. So that Dr. Ian Smith I told you was on my show, his book was about intermittent fasting, but the aging benefit was never discussed. We discussed the health benefit, although I'm sure Ian's aware of it. It's not something that we discussed. Just to put a loop on resveratrol, what about the way you take it?

Is it important? I was reading that you thought something about taking it with either like a yogurt or a milk or something it can bind to, and why does that matter? Well, so there are clinical trials over the last 10 years based on our research and some have failed and some have succeeded. And the main reason that they failed in my view is that doctors who don't understand resveratrol have just given the pill with water.

And resveratrol is the equivalent of brick dust. It's like eating sand, right? We're here on the beach. If you eat sand, you're not gonna absorb it. But if you crush up the sand and mix it with things you might absorb a little bit. All right. That's what we do with Rosaritrol and what I do personally is I have this amazing yogurt that I make myself. Okay.

And I mix it with that and it dissolved beautifully and I have a couple of spoons of that. So if I take if I'm taking a pill could I take it with a yogurt? Is that what you're suggesting? That would work in your stomach. Okay. I have powder in my basement so I just spoon it in. Okay. I take about half a gram to a gram. Okay. But yeah, you got to do that. And so the recent studies that have actually included resveratrol with a meal Mm-hmm have succeeded in lowering blood sugar. Got it. And there are actually now

I was just at a meeting in Washington DC where they have beautiful clinical data showing that it works like metformin to reduce blood sugar as well. So this blood sugar concept, because that's my cardiologist's big thing too, this is just going to be huge throughout everything that we're learning about the body and keeping it stable and not aging and also not doing, not even turning on certain, can inflammation body speed up turning on a genetic code that's already in there? Absolutely, yeah, yeah, that's a really good good point. The inflammation is a problem because if you have inflammation, it'll also shut down these defenses against aging,

and that'll lead to more inflammation and just accelerate aging. You know, we know that we get to about 40 and we're still pretty good. We get to 50 and we're starting to feel a little different, looking different. That's absolutely true. And then you fall off a cliff. Yes. That's this positive feedback of inflammation, shutting down longevity genes, and vice versa.

And it just, once and for all, now you've got- Because I have found that those things, and we're going to talk about them later, like my vision, other signs of aging, really started to accelerate in my mid to late 40s, approaching 50. I mean, massive difference. So I didn't interrupt you there, but it's certainly something I've seen evidently, like my own experience as a human. I feel myself aging now at this point. Yeah, so there are things you can do to slow that

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slash my let. Very short intermission here folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. I'm one of the smartest men in the world here in the studio with me here today. And he is, I think the foremost expert on slowing down the aging process on the planet Earth today. And one of my favorite guests I've ever had on, he's also the author of the book, Lifespan and a bunch of other great stuff we're going to talk about today. Dr. David Sinclair, welcome back brother.

Thanks for having me back on. It's good to see you. We talked about this the last time you were here, but you know, TeleMirrors has been sort of one of the newer age or was ways of measuring aging and you sort of told me, nah, that's not it. How do we, you said my, my real age is younger than, or your, your actual age is younger than your real age. How are you measuring that? How is one measuring age now?

Well, a couple of ways. I've been working with a company, and in disclosure, I am an advisor to them, Inside Tracker. They came out of MIT, saw them about 12 years ago, joined their board. I'm not on there anymore, but have nurtured this company, because I really believe in it. What they do is it's a blood test.

You can have it done at your local lab core request or even have someone come to your kitchen, which is what I do. And I do it every three to six months and it's a dashboard of my body. And then those 40 measurements of things that I mentioned like HBA one C, there's other things like CRP for inflammation, of course, blood glucose levels, there's testosterone, vitamin levels. It's a compendium that put into an algorithm that's based on how these things change over time

with age for your sex and I guess your race and other things. And then it's back calculated to say, all right, compared to other humans on the planet, are you older or younger than them? The average male. So I have plotted myself for all of these parameters individually, and as a compendium, as a, as an algorithm for one score called the inner age

2.0 score, where do I sit compared to other 52 year olds that are white Caucasian? So young. Yeah. Uh, and I'm, I'm in the top, you know, not that I'm, I'm better in terms of that number of the 98% of people my age. And that 2% bothers me. I'm very competitive and I'm working to get it higher. I want to be, I think there's one or two people out of thousands that

they're, they're better than me, but I did go off a statin just to check. Cause I was, I was losing my memory. Yeah. With I am on a statin now, but I went off it and my cholesterol spikes. So your cholesterol did spike. It did. I mean, I need a statin. It's in my genes. My father and my grandmother have had. I'm on one as well. Oh, you are. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say if you, if you don't have any problems and you can't, if you can get it down with diet,

do that because there are effects on the brain. And one of them is memory. Yeah. Yeah. One of the other things too, is that your cholesterol can get too low. Your LDL can get too low and that's not healthy for your brain either. Correct. That's really true. Yeah. And so, you know, I'm just saying why it's two percent. I'm in the top 2%, not 1%.

Right. Right. Oh, but anyway, that people are going to think I'm a little bit too competitive, but I have plotted my, my blood by chemistry over the years against the average human and, and optimized each one. And it takes, it's an experiment. It's long-term, you can't just do it overnight. But I think that's what modern medicine should be, is that we're constantly monitoring ourselves, not going to the doctor once a year for a checkup where they say, how do you feel? Are you sleeping?

You feel like, okay, go home. That's not medicine. That's therapy. Medicine is, and the future of medicine, and for some people who want to invest in this and put in their time and money, you can get devices to read your body continuously. We've talked about continuous glucose monitors in our arm, but there are rings. I've got this ring too. I'm just not wearing it today. I've got the ring. Yeah. There are even, there's a bio button. I brought one today in case this came up. Um, I'm holding up a little, um, gray squarish device that is maybe what a quarter of an inch thick that I stick on my chest usually. And it measures my heart,

my vibrations, my movement. And this thing can tell you if I'm, if you're going to have a heart attack next week, the kind of important, but other things he can even tell you if you're, uh, if you have a cold or a flu or whether you need antibiotics or not. And this is the future. I raised this actually as an example of, of the way medicine should be, which is you are monitored not once a year, but a thousand times a second.

And when that's going to be ubiquitous, then the old way of doing medicine is going to seem medieval. It's so true. And you know, guys, I'm fortunate enough that I have that as well. And it's things like, you know guys I'm fortunate enough that I have that as well and it's things like you know Why do you want things monitored because the truth is most cancers caught early are very treatable. It's catching them late That's a problem heart disease caught early is treatable like we've talked about with with you know statins or anything like that I'm not making any medical recommendations nor am I a doctor nor am I even close to that and

That's why I want to ask you some medical stuff now because I know that you don't feel good about a couple of things That I do and I want to ask you some medical stuff now, because I know that you don't feel good about a couple of the things that I do and I want to ask you about why. So let's talk about things that we can do. So you talked a minute ago about hormone levels. And so I have been on, and I know what you're going to say, but I want you to explain your point of view on this to the audience. Full transparency, the audience knows this. I've been on testosterone, some form of testosterone replacement therapy. My gosh, it's gotta be 10 or 15 years. And I know that that testosterone, at least in my case, negatively, we're getting real detailed here, but it can negatively impact HDL, for example. It can suppress HDL, which mine is already genetically pretty low.

So there's a danger, HDL being your good cholesterol, I know that that's a negative to me taking the testosterone. Having said that, I watch friends of mine that I know that are in their seventies that have been males that have been on testosterone therapy for say 20 years. And I compare that visually to somebody like my father who passed away last year. And visually, externally, these guys that were on testosterone look 20 years younger than my dad did. And so, this I'm not arguing with you about, I want to understand it. That's why the first thing I asked you today is, if you visually look younger, are you likely to be internally younger? Because

visually, if you take somebody like a very well-known actor that most people know has been open about taking testosterone, who's a friend of mine, who makes a lot of like boxing movies and stuff, right? And so you compare him to my father, who was about the same age and visually they really looked like different species almost at that age. So what are your thoughts about hormone replacement and if you're not for it, which I think you probably aren't specifically why. Well, I'm all for keeping your hormones at young levels. Okay.

I'm all about keeping the body the way it was when it was 20. And however you can do that. And it's safe to do that. Okay. You know, so I'm, I'm on board with hormone replacement therapy for women and men if needed. Okay. Uh, but, but you think maybe not needed. I'm interrupting you.

Well, that's, that's the point that, that I have, um, tried my best to find ways in, in myself to build up. You're in that 300 to 700 range of testosterone in your body. You're saying right now your hormone levels are that normal in your 50s without any. Um, I'm, I'm actually naturally higher than an average 20 year old and it, but naturally meaning I've worked at it. I have changed things in my diet. Um, I've done things and it's gone. What are some of those things?

Well, uh, exercise helped building up. Um, I'm not as bulky as you, that's for sure. But, but from my basal state, which was pretty puny to having some muscle, uh, my quads, mainly big muscles, back muscles as well, doing, um, deadlifts, this kind of stuff. Um, so that helped a lot and got it up to, was hovering around 500. Okay. Um, it's gone close to double that, um, over the last couple of years with. Changes to my diet, um, changes with supplements, but I, I didn't actually, I

can't tell you scientifically which one of those has contributed, but it's steadily gone up, which is good. If it had plummeted, I would have stopped taking X, whatever it was. But I'm happy with these numbers, so it's just under or near a thousand now. My god, that's amazing. Uh, it's, it's shock shocking actually, because I'm, I haven't done anything obvious, you know, you read in online, what boost testosterone, I'm not doing a lot of that stuff. Um, so I guess I'm lucky that was one of the genetic good hand you were dealt

compared to some of the other stuff that wasn't so favorable that's cause that's unbelievably high for 52 years old. Yeah. Well, so, you know, I want to be helpful practically Some of the things that I do are So this fasting has helped I think that when I started well, I don't call it fast eating once a day one meal I got you calling it fasting. Yeah, that's okay. People know what it what that is Om

80 ad is the other way to do it, uh, to call it one meal a day, but that seemed to help. And so also become giving up a lot of fat and a lot of meat. Now that's not going to sound good to everybody. I know I would love to know. Yeah, but I think that that's helped. And I did lose weight, uh, and that may have contributed to, right. I mentioned how much weight I've lost.

But here's the thing, I don't think it's a bad thing to supplement at all. I'm not against it. I think what you're doing is perfectly acceptable. But I heard you say something about burning the candle at both ends. What did you mean by that? Yeah. So it's an abundant signal. Testosterone is, okay, yeah, times are good, build muscle.

But then I have to look at the clinical data. And while it won't extend your lifespan, and that's really clear, there have been probably $50 million worth of clinical trials saying that testosterone won't make you live longer. It will help you have more muscle, which will prevent you falling over and breaking your bones, which is a problem for most elderly. So that's good. But there's also not a lot of downside. There's very little, if any, that I've seen. There's not more cancer. There isn't. No. No. So put it this way, it's not going to hurt you if you feel better and you're stronger and you look better, you know, by all means. And this is why doctors prescribe it. Otherwise, you know, there'd be a

warning. But is it, is it going to make you know, there'd be a warning. But is it going to make you live longer? It doesn't look like it, unfortunately. One of the challenges I think with it is that, you know, for most people, if some is good, a whole bunch is better. And what I find with people that start to take hormones is you need to be, I think it can become a form of an addiction and that you're like, well, I'm at 800, I look like this, let me get this thing to 1500 and see what I really look like. And then there are some unhealthy things, your, your hemoglobin levels, things like that, that you've mentioned already.

There are things that can get out of whack that if you're not, you know, you're really careful with it. So that's some of the stuff I just wanted to ask you that because it's, it's been very common for women to become on, you know, some form of hormone replacement too. And I've just, in my own case, I'm at my last labs, I was only at 400 with supplementation. And one of the negatives I think certainly for me is that my own body has probably made a decision that it doesn't need to work at it anymore or produce

it because I've got this exogenous stuff I keep shoving in my body. So I do know that once I've made that commitment, I'm sort of committed for life. So there are some, I'm not proponent of it necessarily. I certainly wouldn't recommend starting until you need to, until those levels are lower. And here I am telling you what I propose, which is a really fascinating part of the interview. So we've got that.

How about any of the peptides? So I'm curious about growth hormone. Yay or nay? Nay. Nay. Why? Well, because there's a lot of evidence, both human and mouse, that when you have low amounts of growth hormone, you live longer. And while again, it's this abundance versus adversity, you'll feel better with growth hormone. You'll heal better.

But long-term, all the evidence points to the opposite, that having low levels of these growth signals is better for you. Um, tumor wise as well, this mTOR pathway thing, part of the other part of it is, um, it's impact on tumors, right? Is there some relationship between those two things with tumors and does growth hormone impact the size of a tumor? Is it telling you everything in your body to grow, for example, potentially? Uh, I mean, potentially, but fortunately there's, there's not a lot of, uh, evidence that growth hormone does cause cancer.

So I would say that cause a cancer in your body to grow potentially. Well, if you've got one, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's part of the downside of all of these treatments is that it's, it's all fine until you get a tumor and then, and then you could actually help the tumor. Do you feel the way about testosterone or are you saying that about growth hormone or both?

Growth hormone more, testosterone, I think that it's fine. Okay, I know this is stuff you don't normally get asked, that's why I wanted to go there. Sure, and then the other thing that I take that I think keeps my, I think, at least let's say the evidence points to, I have to speak like a Harvard professor sometimes, uh, is that, um, by, by activating these other enzymes that are the second component out of those three, the sort of two ends I work

on, you can activate those by doing the kind of things I do in my life, but I can also take a supplement, uh, which raises NAD capital NAD. And there are people are taking IVs of NAD supplements. It's a big thing. It was discovered in my lab, um, uh, in part, uh, what about 2002 when I was a kid? Uh, but it's now a big thing. And the reason that NAD is popular is that it activates these sirtuins and we have seven of those in the body. We talked about this last time. The seven sirtuins are the protectors of the body. There are three of them that protect the DNA and the clock slows down, we think. And then some of them are in mitochondria. There's

three there. And then there's one that floats around in between in the water that's in between all of that. And that's number two. Now, sIRT2 controls hormone production and if you give it to cells they'll make more androgens and one possibility is the reason my testosterone is doing pretty well is I've got super high NAD levels because I've been supplementing for about seven years now with an MN which is a precursor to NAD. Say there, okay I want to go there. So that was the next thing on my list was NAD. So of the people that I know that look freakishly and unusually young for their age that I have met in say the last 36 months, I cannot get over how many of them have

told me that I'm on NAD and I'm on Metformin. And I'm talking about everywhere from a gym to a golf course to a business meeting. And I'm talking about visually shockingly looking young people, mainly people in their 50s that look like they could be in their 30s or early 40s to me. So when you say NAD, do you believe in the IV therapy? Do you believe in the stuff you can inject

with subcutaneously, or are you speaking specifically about this precursor that you were referencing? Well, what I believe, um, doesn't so much matter, but the scientific evidence points to, uh, taking a supplement every day, a gram of NMN, which is this precursor, uh, stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide for the aficionados. Um, just swallowing one of those, uh, or a thousand milligrams is enough to precursor stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide for the aficionados. Just swallowing one of those or a thousand milligrams is enough to double your NAD levels in the bloodstream and triple it if you take two grams. Now I'm 52.

So if I'm, if I'm an average human, I would have half the levels of this NAD molecule than a 20 year old. So doubling it is the goal for me. So I've been taking a gram of NMN, swallowing it every day or you know, the last whatever it is, dozen years, seven years at least. Then the question is what about the NAD IVs? There's very little data on that. I would say that I have tried it. I've found that it felt fine, especially afterwards. During it, especially afterwards during it.

Have you tried it? It's got a little cramping in the tummy. It does. Yes. I found that on the IV and also I've taken it sub Q and I get a real burning, uncomfortable sensation on my stomach. It's ironic that you say that. It's exactly my experience.

So there's some evidence that it's good for treating addiction, but really no solid scientific evidence that it helps in other ways yet. But that doesn't mean it doesn't help. It just means that doctors haven't done enough placebo controls and it's hard to give people a placebo, especially if they're paying for it. So I would say the jury is still out, but the science I think is there that it should activate the sirtuins, kick them into action and at least for those few hours that you're getting it and it'll go up

probably double, triple the levels in your bloodstream. It'll help but I don't know long term. I'm so fascinated by this stuff as everybody can tell. So you're getting stuff here you don't get most other places you guys. So these are just things to think about. These aren't necessarily recommendations. There's things to think about. Then there's metformin. And so just, you know, I must say this to you. You and I met, this is a passion of mine. I've also had a not great genetic handy. By the way guys, there's all kinds of stuff we could talk about on genetics today that you can get studied right now to see if you're predisposed to heart disease or different cancers. You can even find out if it came from your mother or your

father's side. There's all kinds of things you could figure out right now. My genetic hand is crap. It's just mom and dad's side, both not good, and both cancers and heart disease. So when I met David originally, this conversation really mattered to me. And so I did start on metformin. This is just me personally, I'm telling everybody my own medical stuff. I did start on the precursor for NAD and I've tried the IV stuff and I've tried the sub Q stuff myself. So Metformin helps with glucose in the body somehow, the metabolism of glucose, correct? So why does that, why do you think Metformin works? And do you feel real strong like you did last time

that you're here about it? Yeah, I feel even stronger. There's a lot of data from looking at tens of thousands of people that went on metformin. And people who go on metformin who have type two diabetes, who normally would live a short lifespan because they have more cardiovascular disease, they're aging faster, they're actually protected

from these diseases relatively. And those type two diabetics on metformin live longer than people that don't have type two diabetes. That's a remarkable observation. And because once you start to study tens of thousands of people, it starts to look real, um, and especially for those people that are predisposed like you are to cardiovascular disease, uh, and other issues like cancer there, it's very clear that metformin

on average protects you against those diseases because it's not just working on keeping your glucose levels down. Remember it's turning on the mitohermesis and protecting the body through these defense mechanisms. Now people might be thinking, well okay you've got these protective mechanisms, but what are they actually doing to make you healthier? Well, I've mentioned only one of the things they do, which is turning over those old proteins that are either oxidized or have glucose stuck to them. But they do other things. They do protect telomeres when you turn them on. But they do another thing that's really interesting, and that is that they can rejuvenate stem

cells. And so you get stem cells protected, and then they can divide protected and then they can divide and then they can repopulate the body. Another thing that they do really well, particularly the sirtuins, is that they help repair broken DNA. Anyone who's been in the sun, I was Australian, I've been damaged badly by the sun. That ages you. It actually is, we know that damage to DNA accelerates aging. In my lab, we can cause a mouse to be 50% older by doing this process. The sirtuins will slow that down. We had a paper in Science in 2018 that showed that by raising NAD levels, by giving mice

NMN, the same molecule that I take, their DNA repair systems were much more efficient. And if you damage them with radiation, which we were trying to simulate space radiation, but it's also similar to cosmic rays that you get if you fly a lot, which I know you do. NMN was protecting those mice from the damage. You can see the damage. You look in their livers, there was damage, damage, damage in a normal mouse and give them NMN and it wasn't there for the most part. So that's another way it can protect against aging.

This is so good. So good. We're going to keep going cause I love this. Any disclaimers on any of this that we've said so far that you would say to somebody who says, I got to get on this Metformin or NAD. Is there any disclaimer, any downside, anything you would advise them to do just so that I make sure everyone's heard the totality of your thoughts about it?

Yeah. Well, one disclaimer is I'm actually not a trained physician. I trained physician, but I'm not a trained physician. I'm a PhD who studies molecules. And so there's that. So anytime you want to change something in your body, even if it's diet, but if it's a supplement and of course, a drug, you need your doctor. You want to consult them. So your doctor needs to know everything that's going on in your body.

Cause supplements are sometimes just as powerful as drugs. And if you cannot get, for example, this is a good point I think to bring up is if you cannot convince your doctor to get metformin, there is an alternative. You know what I'm going to say? It's a plant molecule called berberine from the Berber plant. And if you're in clinical trials, if you take it at two grams a day, uh, it does lower blood glucose similar to metformin and that you can buy on, you know, any pharmacy or online.

That's where I began after we did our interview. I went to my doctor and I said, we're getting on metformin. And she said, no, we're not. Not right now, not yet. And, um, and so that's where I began. And then after a period of time, she did a little bit more research and agreed. If you've done any reading on MOTS C at all. I've done more than reading. Okay. What do you know about MOTS C? MOTS C. Well, I know the scientists involved and I helped them start a company. Come on now. Really? Okay.

I'm kind of embedded in this field. I know, but this is awesome. I'm older than you might think. So MOTS C is really interesting. I really like it. Okay. I liked it so Mozi is really interesting. I really like it. Um, I liked it so much. I started a company. So Mozi is, is a super interesting molecule from, from a, an academic standpoint, uh, and from a physiological standpoint, Mozi is made not by the DNA, uh, from the DNA in the nucleus, which is most of our chromosomes. It's from the chromosome that's in mitochondria. It's mitochondria because they're like these bacteria.

They have their own circular DNA. It's not a chromosome, it's a circular. And embedded in that circle piece of DNA in the mitochondria is a little gene called MOTS-C, capital M-O-T-C. And the mitochondria make this little peptide, a little piece of a protein, peptide is just a small protein that gets leached out into the bloodstream and tells the rest of the body that a certain part of the body is experiencing hormesis. So when you exercise, your body is secreting MOTC into the body and MOTC is really small. You can synthesize it and you can even get it. I don't know if it's still available in the US, but it, it's in clinical trials right now in this company.

It's called cobar, C-O-H-B-A-R. And it's looking promising as a treatment for fatty liver, but hopefully other age related diseases. Maybe even plaque removal and stuff like that. Right. And there's all kinds of fascinating stuff. So I'm so glad that we got a chance to talk about all this stuff today.

Okay, so some practical stuff just for a second or exciting stuff. CRISPR, we've talked a little bit about CRISPR, but this concept, where are we being able to actually alter DNA? Like I've had some friends of mine that, you know, knew I was going to be talking to you today and they're like, please get like the update. So every,

tell them everyone here what CRISPR specifically is, but where are we at on our, we're right now, where are we? And if you were to forecast say within the next five years, where do you believe we are unable to actually alter DNA that way? Yeah. Well, right now it's, it's possible to add genes to humans. We've cured, not we, but scientists and doctors have cured genetic diseases that way. Blind people are seeing again, but it's only small, it's, it's thousands of people. It's not millions yet, but we are getting better at it. And eventually probably in, certainly in this decade, we'll see people being able to add genes to their bodies more commonly. But CRISPR is different. CRISPR is not adding genes. It's actually

changing your genetic makeup permanently. And so where we're at is there are some genes or some studies that have shown that it works in humans. You can correct sickle cell anemia and fix that. That one's a little easier because it's in the bloodstream. Trying to fix Alzheimer's with CRISPR is going to be a lot more challenging. The blood is easy to access. And the way we do it is we put a CRISPR system, which is an enzyme that you can direct to change the DNA with a barcode. So our DNA has different letters. There's six feet of this DNA molecule in every cell. And there are these four letters, A, C, T, G, and they're in different sequence.

And what CRISPR does that's kind of incredible, if you think about it, is that you can give it a code that says, go find the sequence that's A, T, G, C, A, G, C. And it'll find it in billions of combinations in that six foot and go in and just change that. It is. It's a barcode. And so I would say in the next five years, it'll be fairly common to fix genetic diseases with CRISPR. And then things get really interesting when we start to fix things that aren't genetic.

Maybe we want to all fix our predisposition to diabetes. We could potentially go in and fix that before we actually get that disease and, and make up for not having great genetic lineages. Would you, if you put a time horizon on that, what would you think something like that would be? Well, probably for the healthy people, it's going to take longer, right? Doctors would rather do no harm than do good. Um, and so that's probably 15 years healthy people, it's going to take longer, right? Doctors would rather do no harm than do good. And so that's probably 15 years away from being mainstream. There are other technologies, one called siRNA, which is similar, but it actually stops the production of protein rather than changing the genes.

It's one step down. And that's being shown, and there's a drug on the market to treat high cholesterol and even there's a drug for fatty liver. And so increasingly we're able to change the genetic code or the codes that are coming off the genetic code, which is RNA, which we all have heard about because of COVID. Right. But yeah, it's amazing that we can now read the DNA and rewrite it. In my work, we've just recently figured out how to turn on three embryonic genes in the

body. And when we do that, just the right three genes, that resets the age of the tissue and it gets rejuvenated. KS Are you kidding me? This is work you're doing right now? So in addition, I'm just processing all this. Like, I think when we first talked about this, I'm like, yeah, it'll be in there. Like the adding genes thing, they'll do a little of that, but like to actually

alter the genetic sequence of somebody. That won't be in my lifetime. And you're saying that you believe that in some form of that will be in the next five ish years we'll be doing that. Well, there are patients already that have had it done but for it to be mainstream. Mainstream. Yeah five to fifteen depending on the disease. I mean the more severe the faster the FDA acts. What are the what are you most excited about right now? Like in your work what are you just this is the stuff I'm the most excited about right now. That's easy. Your face just changed too by the way when I asked you. It's easy. Yeah.

So we published a year ago on the cover of nature magazine, which is the highlight of any scientist career that we could reset the age of a complex tissue. We chose the mouse's eye. We let mice get old and blind and we reprogrammed their eye using these three genes they called O, S and K for short. And we turned the age back 80% and they became, they were able to see again. And so what we're talking about is having found that there's a reset switch in the body to be young again.

And the information in the body to be young is still there. So theoretically you could take someone who's a hundred years old and reset their body to be young again. Now the exciting thing is we've been doing clinical trials or pre-clinical trials and there's no apparent downside to this yet. Isn't that great? That's incredible. Yeah and so I went home that day and I said hey we've cured blindness and my family went yeah can you just unpack the dishwasher. That was a sad day that's when I knew I could never impress my

family but we have been working ever since. We first made this discovery about three years ago. It ended up being in my book, a little bit of it. And it was a thrill to make this discovery. But since then we've been doing the hard work, which is to figure out is it safe enough to put into humans. And we're now testing it in non-human primates just to see if it's safe. And if all goes well in the next two years, we'll hopefully cure blindness in people. That is absolutely freaking incredible.

There's absolutely bananas. But it gets better. Okay. The eye was just something we chose. I didn't think it would work any better in the eye. In fact, I thought it'd probably work worse. But we found that there's a universal reset switch. So you can reset different parts of the body.

You can reset the skin, which've shown you can reset muscle. Uh, you can reset. What have you done? Uh, yeah, the skin was easy. So using the same gene. So we're just basically turning on an embryonic program in older people, or middle-aged, um, in their cells and in mice, and they get young again. What does this mean? This means one day it's going to be possible to reset the age of the body.

We've done that. We've done that in mice. Now the question is, how soon can we get it into ourselves? That's bananas. Here's the guy that grew up with skeptics all over his house. Let's assume that that's true. Did everyone just hear what he just said, by the way? That we may be able to reset the age of a human?

We've already been able to do this now and other organisms. That's, that's a minute to process that. Right. And as I process it, I go, wow, that's exciting. I hope I can live long enough so that I can reset my clock. That's the key, right? The stuff we've talked about today, the, the, the eating, the exercise, um, well, what, what's the other thing? Hot, cold. Um, these are designed and the supplements to keep us all alive until this technology becomes available.

Because it's not just one thing to slow down aging, which we can do pretty easily just by doing these lifestyle changes, but to reset the age. There's a study from UCLA that shows- Jeez Louise, that's crazy. It gets crazy. There's a study by Steve Horvath and Greg Fay was published during the first few months of the pandemic. They treated people for a year with a combination of metformin, a bit of growth hormone and

DHEA to offset some of the problems with growth hormone that can cause type 2 diabetes. And they found that when they measured the clock of the body, it went back by about two years. And at the time I thought it went back by about two years. And at the time I thought, yeah, okay, two years, that's not a lot. But then I started thinking, if you could do that every year, that'd be pretty interesting. You're literally aging in reverse. Right. And I don't know about immortality.

I'd just be happy with an extra 10 years of healthy life or even two years. But we're at a point now where we're able to control aging pretty easily. In my lab, we can drive aging forwards and backwards in mice at will. Aging is malleable now that we have an understanding of how it's controlled and what causes it. And we even have mini brains in the lab. We can take human cells. So Ed, I can take your skin cells.

I can make them into stem cells that are pluripotent, meaning I can make anything from you. If I wanted to, and this is not kidding, I could make a sperm out of your skin cells and an egg and fertilize that. So you can clone me. I could clone you, I won't do that, because it's illegal, but biologically we could do that.

My gosh. I'm gonna get all sorts of phone calls. You are, there we go, I'm gonna get the emails too. Hey, can you clone me? No, but what's important is I can make organs, mini organs from you and test drugs. And I could, what we're doing in the lab is we have. Yeah. Yeah. Personalized medicine. Yeah. Wow. So when you come to my lab and you have to promise you're going to come, I'll show you, we grow these mini brains in the lab and we've got them from

people that are predisposed to Alzheimer's or not. And we have a way to age those brains so that they're now 80 years old, even though they're only a few months old and they lose them ability to fire electrically. They become demented in the dish, little mini brains on Instagram. I've shown some photos of these. They're pretty cute. And so we give them Alzheimer's and dementia in the dish. And then what we do is we have the system to turn on those three embryonic genes, O, S and K, and those brains go back in age. But here's the cool thing.

Alzheimer's goes away. They get the electrical activity comes back. Now we do this in a mouse. We make the mouse older, just let them age out. We accelerate it. And we've been now reversing the age of those brains in the mice. And you can guess what happens. They get their memory ability to learn back.

Unbelievable. Do you hear what you're saying? It's unbelievable. This is my day job. So it doesn't seem that exciting, but it is when I talk about it. It's the most exciting stuff. Listen, we're in this time where there's all this doom and gloom about, you know, our wellness and health and the pandemic and all these other things. And it's stuff to be very cognizant of and pay very close attention to, but right with the same time, I feel like Sergey Young and I were talking about this too, who I know you, you know Sergey and like Sergey as well. It's almost like,

if you can find a way right now to stay on this planet healthy for the next 10 or 20 years, if you can manage to do that, that there might be an extension of your life at a magnitude of another 20 or 30 potentially healthy years possibly, and you said 10 earlier, there's this final way to extend your life and the finding the way is what we're describing. The hot and cold, the not eating so daggum much, right? The look really getting sure about your glucose and how you process it in your body and taking a look at this metformin and NAD and these other things.

And if you can really start to get that stuff together and exercise and eat healthy and put the right foot, you, there may be a completely different world we're living in, in a matter of a decade. Yeah, exactly right. And already because technology is changing so fast already, and it's only going to go exponential every year that you stay alive, you get another three months of life. Right now, right now, stay alive. Cause eventually it's going to be for every year you stay alive, you get another year and eventually you're going to have

negative birthdays. Come on. It's, it's, I used to say that this was futuristic. Yeah, you did. This is why it has so much credibility with me. You used to say many years ago, this is far off. This is possible. So for you to be the one telling me, no, here's the window that it's possible in, probable or possible, will carry so much credibility. I've got some of the best scientists working with me on this, not just at Harvard, but in companies who know how to make drugs. So this isn't just, oh, one day it'll happen.

There's, there's investors. So this isn't just, oh, one day it'll happen. There's, there's investors. Um, other investors have jumped in. So, uh, Jeff Bezos and others have put large amounts of money. There are billions now to figure this out. Um, so even if I don't make it, you know, I, I God willing, I don't have a heart attack, but if I do, you know, the genie's out of the bottle, this is going to happen. It's just a question of when.

What it means to be, I'm just thinking myself as you're talking, what it means to be a human being, it's going to potentially be very different experience within a decade. What it means and all of the, uh, just the pain and suffering so many people have gone through in lives with cancers and heart disease and losing people that are still here to Alzheimer's and things like that to think about the quality of life. And people ask me all the time, I was just on a call before we did this with a coaching group I have with all of the stuff going on in the world right now, you know, and I, and I, I told them, I'm optimistic.

I'm optimistic about humanity. I'm optimistic about life. I'm optimistic about our world. And that's not Pollyanna. I have reasons to believe it. And you know, you, my friend are one of those reasons I just learned from you and feel so inspired by you. Is there a negative to people living so much longer? I think of things like food supply or things like that. Do you ever think about those

things? Like we got to be really careful here because you know there might be an issue we've not factored in. In other words, do other technologies need to be keeping pace if humans are going to live longer? Yeah. The answer is yes. And that's the subject of my next book, actually. How do we get out of this mess that we're in?

This mess that we're in of living longer and longer? No, the mess that the world we've created of the stress and the bad food around us. Living longer is part of the solution actually. So by helping yourself, you actually help save the planet. And that may sound counterintuitive, but let me explain. First of all, there's an economic benefit to living longer. Healthy productivity, spending. The economy is driven by people who are healthy and dragged down by people who are not healthy.

Good point. And we did the calculations by we, I mean, a couple of brilliant economists in London and I was just the third wheel, but they calculated that if you could just extend lifespan by one year, let's say everyone went on Metformin who could take it, then the savings in the long run to the US would add up to $86 trillion. If you extend it to a decade, it's 365 trillion with a T dollars. This is more money than you can get by doing anything. You know, save stopping all military spending, which we wouldn't do. But that kind of money can be put towards solving issues like climate change, food supply.

The other thing that I do, and I don't often mention this because it's often not the subject that people want to hear about. But I also work on other problems on the planet. I have a company that detects viruses and bacteria, can diagnose anything from your blood. That's just one. But the one that's relevant that you reminded me is, actually I co-wrote a patent on the plane over here to California from Boston to preserve fruit.

And so the same molecules and coatings on fruit that, well, the same molecules that work in our bodies also work in plants. In fact, plants make most of these molecules that we ingest. It's one of the reasons I eat stressed out plants because they make these molecules. Long story short, I'm hoping to extend the shelf life

of fruit around the world. And there's a huge amount of fruit and vegetables that are thrown away every day. Yeah. You're a remarkable brother. Is there something that keeps you up at night that you worry about? I don't get kept up at night worrying. I get kept up at night working and talking to people. I do worry a bit that I'm not going to achieve my life's goal, which is to have a medicine that helps millions of people. Um, I do worry a bit that I'm not going to achieve my life's goal,

which is to have a medicine that helps millions of people that would satisfy me. I don't care about prizes and all that stuff. That's doesn't, you know, I've won a few and it doesn't do anything. You know, what will, what I'm hoping for is for a little vial of a drug, some medicine that that saves millions of lives. And then I'll, then I'll be, honestly, I'll be happy. And I'm guided by a mentor of mine, Philip Sharp, who is at MIT, and he actually literally won a Nobel Prize. Does he have his Nobel Prize on the wall?

No. He has a little vial of the drug that he made. And that's what he tells me is important to him. That's so good, David. Okay, a couple more things. Is there any other additional, I'm just processing what we've talked about today. I feel so good that you are here. I want to just say this to you. I always learn when you're around me and I feel more optimistic

with evidence based in fact of why I feel more optimistic and I'm grateful that I get to share the conversation today with millions of people that listen to the show. Like there are some shows when I do them and I'm in the midst of doing them. And I'm like, I'm so grateful for this experience. And that's now twice with you. eBay Motors is here for the ride. Remember when you first saw the potential,

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show is sponsored by better help so you know as an adult are you carving out time you know on a weekly basis to learn new things and to grow or do it as often as you like? Or is the day to day kind of getting you so busy that you forget to ever recapture that kind of childlike joy and enthusiasm you had in your life, just like the wonder of being a child again? And one of the things that, you know, if you really want to change things in your life, you should look at therapy. What I love about BetterHelp is it can be done online. If you don't vibe with the therapist, you can switch at any time and therapy can really help you connect with kind of your sense of wonder again. Get back to that childlike joy and enthusiasm you had. Therapy is helpful for learning different things about life but also learning about yourself and becoming more self-aware. So here's all you got to do. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists anytime you want for no additional charge. Rediscover your

curiosity with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash EdShow today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash EdShow. That was a great conversation and if you want to hear the full interview be sure to follow the Ed Milett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Would you like to live to 200 years old? Would you settle for 150? Right? Well this man doesn't want to settle for 150, doesn't settle for 120. He's an author, he's got a book out called The Science and Technology of Growing Young by Sergey Young.

Sergey Young, welcome to the program. Hi everyone. I'm so excited to be here with you today. What we're going to do today is we're going to go through the different, you know, parts of doing it now as well. So I want to talk about things that are, they may seem basic. I want to say one thing for me, if you agree with this, Sergey, just the intention, just having the intention of living longer, just making that an outcome of yours as a human being,

I believe opens up a space that didn't exist in your life and in your world prior to thinking that thought, just the thought alone that I'm going to live a long time and picking a number, I think too, having a number. Do you agree with that or is that crazy? Yeah, look, I'm a big fan of it. So I'm a typical placebo man, actually. That's why I like supplements, right? I have plenty of supplements because, you know, the like 30 or 40% of the outcome of the positive result,

you know, from the supplements comes from placebo effect. And I'm so I'm typical placebo man. So my motto every morning I wake up and my mantra is, I'm gonna be living to 200 healthy and happy years in the body of 25 years old man. So imagine I started to do it a couple of years ago, my life has changed because imagine every morning I wake up and three fourth of my life is ahead of me. I have plenty of plans. I can even excuse myself for three years from this planet to go back and forth to Mars. And my family is not going to be pissed off. I have four kids.

I'm an investor, so I call it, I'm the founder of diversified portfolio for kids. The psychological aspect of aging is really important. I agree with you. The psychological aspect of aging is really important. I agree with you. Your target age, if you put it like 10, even 20 years below than your calendar age, will do amazing things with your body and your mind. You're so right.

Just experiencing you and your energy, I got to tell you, my audience is diverse. There's people 14 years old listening to this. There's people in their seventies. But one of the things when I hit my forties and fifties, I started to say things that were insanely stupid. I'm old, I'm old now, I'm old now, just those statements and people say you're not old and you don't look old either, by the way physically you look 25 years old and I said I feel it but just the verbal part of it and it's not it's not part

of the book, we're gonna get into the details now, I just want everyone to have that intention of living that long in the body of a 25 year old. I love the way you describe that. Now let's talk about stuff right now. There's six things that Sergey typically talks about that you could be doing right now and we can go through most of them if you want. But one thing that I do is I because I've had some heart issues, I do regular lab work, regular checkups with my doctor. I'm talking quarterly for me and for a while I was doing it every other month. Most people will go years without seeing a doctor

unless they get sick. So talk about some of your six things people could do right now to right now engage living longer and more healthy. Yes, beautiful. So for me, it's the most important part of the book. This is why I am in longevity. I mean, you know, all these exciting technologies

which will be available to us in the next 10, 20 years, this is all great. But for me, change starts today or tomorrow morning, but that's like the only optionality that you have. So some people find it boring. That's why I created this Sergey Yan guy. That's why I've developed this horizon to live 250 years and then the far horizon of longevity to live to 200 years in the form of, you

know, internet of bodies, human brain, AI integration, human avatars. But like, we don't need to wait for another 10 to 20 years. There's so many things that you can do today. Again, it's called boring stuff. And to live to at least 100 healthy and happier, unless you are really unlucky in genetic lottery. And this is like really rare. So you need to have like really rare genetic disease. And then it's a separate discussion. We working on that as well. There's so many things that we shoot and we can do today. So then one caveat before that, we humans, we like one silver bullet.

And people always ask me like, what are like just one thing that I need to do to sort out this kind of health stuff? And I'm always saying if one answer to aging and age related diseases would exist in this world, then it's either mother nature in a process of evolution, or scientists in a process of scientific research will find this answer. So it's in human biology is the most complex and fascinating field I've ever discovered for myself. So be prepared, it's always combination of things and you need to follow through on many

dimensions. Number one, and this is when I have 30 seconds on longevity, I talk about this, is exactly the thing that you just mentioned, doing your medical screening. We just need to understand we're living in a completely different world today. Like 20, 40 years ago, there was zero value of you knowing if you have cancer or not. It was actually negative failure because cancer was case of that. And you just kind of got the information that you're going to survive for another six or nine months on this planet. And that's it you've done. People would defer in the cancer screening days because I mean,

there was like zero useful information and the outcome from that. Right now. making sure you do early diagnosis of cancer, increase your recovery rates from 20-30% to 90-100%. So your opportunity and ability to survive and actually to sustain the quality of your lifestyle and the quality of your health is enormous. And for majority of cancer types, early diagnostic of cancer, stage one, early stage cancer is 93 to 100% for major cancer types.

This is amazing. Like some of the machines that we see in the hospitals, it's really space machines, like MRI machine, three Tesla MRI. They have the artificial intelligence driven brain, network algorithm, updated every month. And the last two years, so I'm doing my annual screening every year

in San Diego, California, in human longevity centers set up by our very good friends. So- You go to the same place, yep. Yeah, so two, in the last two years, it was actually, after I've done full body MRI, it was artificial intelligence scanning, and looking through my scans. And then it was discussion with doctors.

So it's radiologists empowered with artificial intelligence, increase exponentially your chances to get the analytics right, the diagnostic right and survive. Just one figure and it's fascinating. So every radiologist working under the time pressure, which is probably 100%, 150% of time of their working mode is successful in diagnostic early stage breast cancer in 38% of cases.

Crazy. That's awesome. If you empower the same man or woman with a beautiful profession, empower him or her with artificial intelligence algorithm, the ability to detect grows to 98 to 99%. That's amazing. And we've been investing in so many companies, diagnostic comes to our home, like, you know, always call a guard, they're using our blood tests to detect like the risk of colon cancer.

It's just amazing. So, well, just make sure the most important day of your life every year is the day of your annual screening. If you want to do it quarterly, this is great. Every six- Just to jump in, I just want to stay on this. First off, I want you to hear what he said there because I didn't look at it that way.

Early stage detection of disease, cure rates and survival rates on most diseases are incredibly high detected early. We die from these diseases because it's stage three when we find it. It's stage four when we find it. In my case, I don't have perfect genetics when it comes to plaque accumulation of my arteries. I detected it in my 30s. I'm still with you here because I was doing regular lab screenings. So guys, if you don't go to the Longevity Center and say, get an executive physical once a year, get your blood looked at. The way that they look at blood now, everybody, it's not HDL LDL. There's little particle, big particle. There's your liver enzyme levels. There's all these things. There's your lipoprotein little A. There's these things you don't even need to know what they are. Just know that they're tested for now. And if you haven't

been there in a while, do it at least once a year. And I think this starts in our 20s. I really believe that. So I just want to second what he has said there, as if I'm anywhere near the expert he is, but we do have similar friends and we've been on a similar journey. So I just want to really stamp that one is so important. Yeah, this is and this is much cheaper. Like prevention is 10 to 20 times cheaper than treating something when when disease manifests itself. Because this is very old school, like 30, 50 years ago. You need to wait until disease will manifest itself.

And this is why when you see a dog, right now, you define when you need to see a dog or any should be like super regular. So that's one. One. So I want to go, I want to focus on a couple of them, Sergey, just because we have so many of the future things I want to do too. Two is let the food be the medicine. I want you to read the book to get that one guys. That's why you go get a book. Right? What's the food? What's the medicine? Third is get moving.

My audience is pretty good at that exercise, moving, those kinds of things. Here's a biggie. Eat early and less often. What do you mean by that? Can you define that for us? So basically, well, there's a lot of disagreement what actually extends our life in academic circle. This is one agreement.

If you decrease the calorie intake, if you'd literally decrease the number of calories that you take every day by 15 to 25%, of course you need to look at the balance between physical activity and the calorie intensity. But so it's actually extends your life by two, three, five, healthy and happy years. That's a big thing.

Well, it's easier to say, well, Sergey, you need to less 15 to 25% less calories, but it's very difficult to do. So what are my life hacks on that one, I do fasting. So, you know, I fast 36 hours every week. Wow. Okay, nights and one day. It's actually Sunday. Yeah, it's I started on Sunday evening or on Monday evening. And then I you know, just two nights and just one day during Monday, I just drink some water, herbal tea, and that's it. So I asked about that, Sergey, can I inquire about that? So because the fasting, I've

had intermittent fasting, we've talked about this, but 36 hours, Phil Mickelson, the professional golfer started doing that about two years ago. He's been a guest on my show. He says he feels literally 20 years younger doing it. When you began doing that, because I've not done it. I've done some intermittent fasting, the 36 hour thing. Okay. I want to ask you about this. Did you just right off the bat goes 36 hours or did you build up? Did you do 24 for a while or do you just go 36 and you're fasting for the 36 hours? Yeah. So I started to do 24 hours fasting, but then it's, well, what is happening?

Like in the first 17, 18 hours of fast, and I'm speaking about the average man or woman, right? We are not average, like this, let's say it's actually a beauty of technology, it's going to be much more personalized, but like within the first 16, 18 hours of fasting, body just cleans itself, right? Your autophagy actually start after this period. Well, that's the beauty of that. When you're old cells, which your body doesn't need them. Yeah, you can actually clean it in the process of fasting. But this whole thing starts after 17 or 18 hours of fasting.

That's why I didn't feel really really I haven't thought that it's logical just to do like 18 hours of fasting. And then like the sweetest period, like the best period of fasting, I start to eat again. Well, so I've done 24 hours and then I thought, OK, well, Sergey, I mean, you sleeping during the night anyway, don't you? And I'm like, OK, well, that's a treat, but what I can do. So, and I thought rather than starting to eat, so you mentioned I start Monday evening rather than starting to eat on Tuesday evening, I was like, can I just extend it to like Wednesday morning? And obviously, it's difficult sometimes to go to bed if you're hungry.

Do you get hungry anymore? Do you still get hungry? Not really. No. What I do in the evening, I just like, I take fiber. Yeah. Yeah. And it's zero calories with the water or herbal tea. It fills my stomach a little bit. And then I go to bed. But like, literally, you just need to see me like on Monday evening at 9 p.m.

when I'm going to bed after first 24 hours of sleep. This is like the best sleep I have during my week. You feel so light. You feel so energetic. I mean, you literally feeling young and that's the beauty of that. Yeah. So I'm gonna start Sunday night.

I'm gonna start. Yeah, just give it a start, but like make sure like pre-fasting day, post-fasting day, concentrate on vegetables. Don't do a lot of like heavy stuff, like meat protein or fish protein, et cetera. But otherwise, like the best diet is a balanced diet. Everybody that's listening to this that's a bodybuilder except the point then if you're a

bodybuilder and you're training for huge muscles and you're not gonna fast for 36 hours because you're taxing yourself and you may need some of those proteins. I think listening to what Sergei has said about 15 to 20 percent less caloric intake you could still get away with doing that by just because these bodybuilders these fitness people that listen to my show that segment of the about 15 to 20 percent less caloric intake. You could still get away with doing that by just because these bodybuilders, these fitness people that listen to my show, that segment of the audience, they're incredibly food disciplined already, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just focusing on that because that is the consensus in aging, less food processed through

your body, longer life by two to five years. So that's this is why I had Sergey on you guys. I do think it's important to put it in the context of your physical routine as well. So I mean you don't need to be binary about this whole thing but like if you take out this kind of fasting pressure from your everyday you're following like 18 hours of fasting and like six hours of food intake If you just put it in the context of the week, it might be actually much more useful and easier to implement. Okay, so guys, I want to go through his list with you. One, get regular checkups. Two, let the food be the medicine. Three, get moving. Four, eat early and less often. And then the last two, I'll have you talk about these. Five is constantly work on quitting bad habits and six is make sleep your superpower. What are those bad habits and what about sleep? Because that's changed my life, my sleep situation.

I'll let you go there. Yeah, so bad habits. Basically, like sometimes we do really stupid or risky choices in our life. And that's the problem. And people think it's something superficial. So tobacco smoking, it's minus 10 years from your lifespan. And this is awful. And I thought it's pretty rare because we don't see these people on the street because right now from regulatory perspective, it's prohibited.

But like, if you look at statistics, 25 to 30% of adults is still doing tobacco smoking, minus 10 years. Not always using your seat belts is minus two years from your life. Just riding motorcycle is 17 times more dangerous than driving the car, 17. Mortality rates from motorcycle accidents is like 17 time car and

and then alcohol. Yeah, alcohol and coffee like to my favorite questions. So I'll come back to that. Just one final example, which I wanted to mention. So I've been blessed with a lot of travel experience. A few years ago, I just went through the book of Tim Ferris for four hours to work week and I had my wish list. And so I went to North Pole and South Pole. And actually, I mean, it sounds really risky. It's just a beautiful place to sonar, but like, it's not that risky. So then I had an opportunity to join the group of guys who were climbing Mount Everest, the highest mountains on earth. And I look at statistics there, and it was like 6% mortality rate. And I said, oh, look, I'm not sure I can afford that.

And, but here's the story. Two months ago, I received an email from my very good friend from California. She's amazing woman, entrepreneur. And she's like, well, Sergey, I'm about to climb the most dangerous mountain on earth. And so the name of this mountain is K2. And you know what mortality rate for this is 25%. So Russian ruler, right?

It's 17%. Yeah, it's a dangerous game. It's like 17% of dying. It's like really, yeah, putting your salaries, but like one out of four is not going to come back. I'm like, Oh, no, I'm not in this business. So that's, that's very important. And we think it's, it's, it's not with us. Okay, it's, it's, it's about some other people, we never do this, you know, this kind of stupid choices. So I the polite version of this called passive longevity, I do think it's extremely important. Okay. Okay. So that's one. And sleep, you know, I was, and I'm probably, I don't know if you had Matthew Walker on,

on your show, amazing guy. So in the book called, I think it's called Why We Sleep. This is my book of year 2019. I changed completely my sleep routine. Because before that, we all very active people. We want to do this, this and that. And there's so many exciting things in the world. So I was just borrowing my hours from my sleep credit. I literally, my every sleeping time

was somewhere around five hours. And I'm like, but after this book, like, um, my rule is eight hours in the bed, seven hours of sleep. And I measure, I actually like, I just started to test a whoop. I like whoop sleep algorithm. I actually have 97% sleep efficiency this night. Where's my sleep? I use Aura.

Are you, do you like Aura? Or no? Yes, I'm actually, I, it's, it's in my home. So I'm using Aura as well. I actually find Aura algorithm a little bit more forgiving. So sometimes you like, you have not a great kind of night and, and the Aura is stuck. It'll, it'll still do well.

It's good. Like, because I'm positive, positive person. Like even if something is bad, if I, you know, if I name it positive, it's actually positive for me. But nevertheless, I don't think it does matter what particular variable you use. All of the algorithms that you can use is great for that. But I just want to quote a very good friend of mine. He's the founder of Longevity Clinic in London. And so so first time

I met him, same question, like, what is the one thing that you would suggest me to do? And he's like, Sergey, every evening we can visit the most powerful clinic in the world. We go to that. I'm like, oh my goodness, what a beautiful way to put this whole thing and describe the importance of sleep. It's like, we can't really underestimate, there's no alternative activity to sleep in terms of sustaining your hormonal balance. This is extremely important. And like, in hormones, there are things like,

I mean, and I do think you discussed it with David Sinclair, right? Like any extreme is bad, like lack of hormones is not, like excessive hormones, your aging is accelerating. But like, so your body has this beautiful mechanism that you couldn't really figure out through this you know, medical science or artificial intelligence, how to balance your hormones. It just works this way. So use that. You blow my mind because, and we're gonna get to wine and coffee back in a second,

and then we're gonna go to future things. But some of them are the future. But I wanted to ask you about hormones in a minute too. But I want to say this one thing about the sleep that he just referenced. My first book, I kind of almost bragged about the fact that I went on less sleep than most people. And as I've done my show for a long time, done more reading, more research, it's one of the things that I am most focused on in my life is my sleep. And I just want everyone in the audience to know that research it, you

know, the rep, I've had Sean Stevenson on my show, I've had lots of people about sleep. I've got apps I use to help me sleep deeper. I've got or the tracks that I've got the cool room, I've got a chili pad that David or that Tim Ferriss talks about, I do anything I can. The room is dark. All these things they teach you to get into the best sleep state because people like Sergey have encouraged me through their writings and teachings to do it and it's made a huge, huge difference for me.

Okay, we don't want to skip over wine and coffee. Does it hurt us and how much? Okay, wine and coffee. So, this is funny. This is a lifestyle perspective on that. Well, I'm a big fan of red wine, specifically American wines. After I started to do a lot of business in the US, I'm in love with what you guys have there. And I started to dig into this station and I'm also a big fan of coffee. So, I do believe you need to have your kind of cheat things, right? And I started to dig into this station. And I'm also a big fan of coffee. Okay. So I do believe, you know,

you need to have your kind of cheat things, right? Whether it's, you know, a burger on Saturday, or for me it's one or two espresso a day. So my answer is, like, if you look at the research on coffee and wine, it's's the graph always looks like that. Okay. Tell everybody what you're describing for the audio people. What do you show?

Okay, so you can see that there's like, the graph is pretty flat, but there's like optimal point, which is one or two glasses of wine per occasion, or one or two espresso a day. Got it. So you have this in statistical terms, you have like relatively, so you can always say like, you know, one or two espresso days is good for your longevity.

But the shape of this curve is in statistical terms is really insignificant. So this like, unless you really overdoing this with coffee, or you're really overdoing this with alcohol with wine, it's just, I don't think it's influenced a lot your longevity. But having said that, alcohol, and specifically excessive consumption of alcohol is a really bad thing for your body. Because from a certain point of view, after one or probably two glasses, your liver changed the way it's processed the alcohol. Because before, like, you know, one glass during the evening, it can absorb, you know, everything. It's going to be super friendly for your body. After that,

well, it's completely different mechanism. Okay. It's actually converted this whole excess of energy and alcohol into fat. So that's, it's completely different mechanism. Okay, it's actually converted this whole axis of energy and alcohol into fat. So that's a problem. So my rule is one or two glasses per occasion, which is basically on my definition of occasion, it's either Friday or Saturday. Okay, once a week, and this is fine. You can do it like, but like not more than two glasses of red wine, particularly like red, I think white is particularly beautiful as well, but not every day, because after the age of 40 or 45, you'll find yourself in trouble with everyday conception, even if it's just one glass, it just changes your mind. It's like, look if you use oring or you use whoop like whatever

algorithm to track in sleep that you're currently looking at. You can see that after a couple of glasses of wine, your deep sleep period starts not around midnight but somewhere around four or five a.m. Yes, that's right. This is bad. And the same thing with coffee. Like, and there's two groups of people. One is like really receptive to coffee and caffeine. So if I will drink a couple of espresso after two p.m. I will not be able to sleep well.

Okay. And for me, again, deep sleep actually, a period starts somewhere on four or five a.m. during the night, not around the midnight. This is bad. I know a couple of friends, they can have like two espresso in the end of the dinner and they will just like almost that, you know, in a bath in the next 30 minutes. So I think there is a power of the example that we just used.

And the power is like 30, 40 years ago for you to do experiment and longevity is 15 years exercise. You take a group of old people and you wait until all of them die. This is your feedback cycle 30 years ago. Okay. And what you can do in this world with 15 years feedback cycle right now, it's like that. It's every minute, right, with every variable you have. You get like every morning, you can look at the quality of your sleep and have very important takeaways for your lifestyle changes. So that's how both you and I discovered that, you know, both caffeine or alcohol in the form of wine or any other bad habits actually in negative way influence our sleep. So that's the form of wine or any other bad habits actually in negative way influence our

sleep. So that's the beauty of the feedback. Got it. I like that we're allowed to drink wine a few days a week and have coffee because I want to be alive 150 years or 200 years but I also want to live. You know it's not just being alive I want to live and wine is part of how I feel I'm living sometimes. So I feel good about that. This is the Ed Mylan Show.