THE ED MYLETT SHOW - Suicide Prevention w/ Kevin Hines

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

This is going to be DIFFICULT for some of you to hear. And that’s all the more reason to LISTEN.Nearly 800,000 people die by suicide in the world EVERY year… and the number continues to rise.That means 800k+ of families and friends are impacted and left wondering, “WHY?”Odds are, you or someone you love has been impacted by suicide. And so I am URGING you to SHARE this week’s episode with as many people as you can.My guest, KEVIN HINES, knows more about suicide than most.‌He tried to end his life by jumping off the GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE when he was only 19 years old.A jump like that kills virtually everybody who attempts it.  But miraculously, Kevin survived.  And today, YOU’LL GET TO HEAR HIS TRUTH.Kevin’s story and his message will SAVE LIVES and this may be THE MOST meaningful discussions I’ve ever had. I can’t think of a more important topic to talk about than this one.We’re going delve into the PAIN AND FEELINGS that surround suicide, how that pain leads to ACTION, suicide PREVENTION tips, GENETICS, and dealing with OUTSIDE NEGATIVE FORCES.You’ll also hear Kevin’s THREE QUESTIONS you MUST ask if you think someone is NOT okay and may be thinking about suicide.*If you are having a mental health emergency call 911 or reach out to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline by dialing 988.Protect yourself and your loved ones. 

This is the Ed Milach Show. Alright, welcome back to the show everybody. I was going to get right to it. My guest today tried to take his own life by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge when he was 19 years old. And he is one of very few people ever to have been fortunate enough to not be successful at taking his life by jumping off the golden gate bridge. He's also one of a handful of people that can actually still walk, stand and run after making that suicide attempt. And so today is going to be one of the most dramatic stories you have ever heard in your life. And it today is going to be one of the most dramatic stories you have ever

heard in your life. And it's my ambition today that today's show changes lives and saves lives. And we're going to talk about mental health, especially around this time of year. I think this is one of the most important topics we could possibly cover. So Kevin Heines, welcome to the show, brother. Thank you, Ed. It is great to be here. Well, you know that I've been following you for a while and wanted to have you on here for a while. I've been stalking you to be here today, not the other way around. People, we get thousands of requests to come on this show

and there you are, me pursuing you to have you here today. So thank you for being here. Thank you for having me in. So, let's get to it. You're 19 years old and I was doing all my research for the show and that prior to you, the day that you actually jumped, you actually wrote a letter, is that not right?

And you actually tried to convince your parents that day that you were actually okay. Do I have that story right? Tell us about that day. So the night before, on the 24th of September 2000, I wrote a note to my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, my best friend, and my girlfriend at the time. I basically told them I love them. I disagreed with some of the things we had been fighting about.

And I told them I was sorry. And I asked for their forgiveness for what I was about to do. The next morning on the 25th, I did convince my father that I was fine. He was very worried about me. I've been struggling mentally for years. He didn't know what to do. Parents were divorced. I was living with my dad.

We were fighting every day. And I told him, I'll see you at home tonight. I'm going to go to take me. If you take me on the in the car to city college, I'll take the bus home. We'll have dinner at six knowing that I was going to go to the golden gate. And in my mind, I was never going anywhere else. And your dad says to you, by the way, something he regularly said to you when you last saw him. And what's amazing about this quote, brother, is it's the exact quote that my father has said to me several thousand times

in my life but go ahead and say what your dad said to you. Kevin I love you. Be careful. He said it every day. I didn't know your dad always said that. That's why your story strikes me bro. Kevin I love you. Be careful. And that's when I kissed him on the cheek as I had done since I was a little guy, as I do today, like it's some kind of mafia movie, I told him I loved him, and I stepped out of the car. And I walk on, and this is important for counselors to know this of a high school in college alike,

when you, when I walked in the counselors to the Department of City College, my plan was to drop all of my classes, so that my family would not have to do it after I was gone. Because boy, they would have such a burden if they had to do that, but they wouldn't be upset that their eldest son was gone from this earth, right? I didn't even cross my mind.

And I went into the counselor's department. I dropped nine and a half of my 12 and a half units, keeping only my English class. And why? Yeah, because I'm embarrassed to say this, but because the teacher was gorgeous, I wanted to see her one last time. It was the rational thing I did all day. So I go and I drop my courses and I will tell you this, Ed, city college of San Francisco has a different protocol today. When somebody walks in and drops 50%, 100% a third of their classes simultaneously,

they ask the questions, are you thinking of killing yourself? Have you made plans to take your life? Do you have the means? And they've saved lives that way, but they didn't have that protocol for me. That's thanks to you. That is because of me, yeah.

No, just that enough itself makes your story redemptive, right? Right. But we're going to redeem it a whole lot more today as we go. So you drop your classes. Do you get to see your gorgeous teacher first? Yeah. Just curious you do. I do.

And so then you get on some sort of bus to head there, correct? I got on a munitrain then onto a bus from there. Yep. That went straight out the goal. But on that bus, you are very, very emotional. I want you to describe that. And then obviously what didn't happen that day that probably could have changed the course of things as well.

So describe your condition, your state of mind, your behavior on the train and the bus. Sure. So on the bus, I sat in the very back row in the middle seat looking out upon everyone. And about a hundred people boarded this bus over time. And they're all going on the bus, I sat in the very back row in the middle seat looking out upon everyone. And about a hundred people boarded this bus over time and they're all going on the golden gate. And I sat there and I couldn't tell my father

that morning, even though he was prying and trying to reach me. I couldn't tell him what I was thinking because I was not yet would susodologist call ambivalent. I could only see pain, I could only see death. I believed I was useless and worthless, and that I was my family's greatest burden. So on that bus, I started to freak out,

I started to go, wait, I don't wanna do this. What am I doing? I didn't have a cell phone, I was like, maybe someone will ask me if I'm okay, then I can tell them my truth. I couldn't say it aloud. I needed someone to reach in. I couldn't reach out. And then I started to cry.

I started to cry softly and then moderately, and then waterfalls flowing and mucus dripping from my nose at real, real cry. And then I began to yell aloud at the top of my lungs on a crowd of buss filled with a hundred people. Leave me alone. I don't want to die. Why do you hate me so much?

So what did I ever do to you? Talking to myself and the voices I was hearing in my head because I deal with, and I still deal with this Auditorium and visual hallucinations on a regular basis. I also bipolar disorder. I am. Yeah, for me. Yeah bipolar type one was psychotic features Which means you have the paranoia the delusions and the hallucinations on the bus and yelling at the voice the voices and The only person to react is the guy next to me to my left. And he points at me with his thumb and goes, what the hell is wrong with that guy while laughing at my pain?

And that broke me. And I was like, well, I guess I have to die. And so the bus gets to the Golden Gate Bridge parking lot and a hundred people de-board right there. No one's paid attention to you. No one's paid attention to you. No one has been paid attention to that. No, they were looking at me. But they didn't even read about it.

But they did not. A hundred people. A hundred people. Watch this man clearly in crisis and do nothing. Yeah, and that's the nature of some of our society. Is that we see people, anyone, in the greatest lethal emotional pain they've ever experienced, but feel nothing for them, but fear of them and apathy toward them. That's his or her problem but it's not mine I got things to do. And so the bus gets there everybody

debords and I'm crying on the bus hoping the driver will see my pain and say something kind and instead he goes come on kid get out the bus. I got to go and I walked right up to him I looked him right in his eyes as water is flowing from mine and It wasn't like a quiet cry. It was raging crying and he just motions from eating off the bus and So I walk down and I go across and I remember and I don't always talk about this but I remember getting to the The footpath right before the walkway that goes on the bridge and I remember stopping and Looking back To see if in my mind anybody cared

And there were people all over But nobody noticed me and so I go up forward and I find a particular light rail And I lean over that light rail. And I lean over that light rail and I'm crying to the waters below. And a woman from my left approaches me and she's smiling. I thought, oh, this lady's going to save me. She's going to ask me if I'm okay. I don't have to do this today. I don't have to die today. I left the fate of my life in a complete stranger's hands Which at the time when I think about it wasn't fair. She can't read my mind

And she had these big sunglasses on and she approached and I'm waiting for the are you okay? And instead she pulls out a digital camera and goes, will you take my picture? And I had to laugh inside, you know, for a minute like lady, terrible timing, but I took her camera and she posed a few times, several times, and then she took her camera and she walked away. And at that moment, I said to myself, absolutely, no one cares, which is the single greatest lie I've ever told myself. Everybody cared. Everybody would have been there if I told them

what I was doing. Everybody would have wanted to stop me. Sitting here with you right now, and I know you would have cared. If you had seen me on that bridge, crying my tears to waters below, and you were close enough, you would have said, hey, kid, are you okay?

And that would have changed the course of the rest of my life. Wow. What that didn't happen. What it didn't happen. She walked away. And I, I, I, I heard the auditory hallucination yell, jump now. And I did, I walked back toward the traffic early. I sprinted forward and I catapulted my hands over that rail. And people think that's the most important part of the story,

but it's not. The most important part of the story is that the millisecond that my hands left the rail, I had an instantaneous regret for my actions. And the absolute recognition, I just made the greatest mistake of my life and it was likely too late. 99.9% of the people that I've done what I did are gone. They're sure their stories never get to be shared. Hmm. I fell 220 feet, 25 stories in four seconds, closing in on 80 miles per hour. And the only thing in my mind as I fell fell very rapidly, was what have I just done?

I don't want to die. God, please save me. I called out to God. And I hit the water and the impact were for breaded through my legs into my lower back and immediately shattered my T 12 L1 L2 lower bread. The it was an implosion and it was the most physical pain I ever experienced in my life. And then a vacuum sucked me under 70 feet roughly and I opened my eyes and I was drowning. And I remember thinking, I don't want to drown. And then going like, what

is your jump into a giant body of water? And that just goes to show you the the true illogical and irrational thought processes that leads to suicide or suicide attempts. People who are suicidal are not selfish. To be selfish, you have to know you're hurting someone. These people who are dying by suicide, who are attempting suicide all around the world every single day, they're in so much lethal emotional pain that is all they feel. And what's the one thing you want to happen? Ed, when you find yourself an inscrutious, dating physical pain, you want to stop this emotional pain. It's 300,000 times worse.

And that's where I was that day. But I got to the surface as fast as my arms would take me. And I remember as I got closer to kind kind of the lit circle of water above me, I started to convulse. I was running out of air. And I remember saying to myself, this exact quote, Kevin, you can't die here. If you die here, no one will ever know you didn't want to know, no one will know you knew you made a mistake. And I broke the surface because I kept going. And I take a breath and I try to scream, but all that came out was help me. My lungs have been impacted. I couldn't yell. And then a few minutes later, I go down again and I can't get back to the surface. And I think to myself, this is it.

I'm going to die here is it. I'm gonna die here. What have I just done? And then literally a miracle. A miracle happened. A real, a real miracle happened. Something very large, very slimy and very alive began circling beneath me. And I thought it was a shark. And I was freaking out.

It's a great right-brain around. I thought, I didn't die doing this, but a shark is going to eat me. And I'm freaking out and you know, and I punched it. I punched it because I thought it was going to bite me at any moment. I didn't know that. Yeah, I was with my one good arm. This arm was wrenched. I couldn't move it very well.

I'm punching down. I mean, it just hurt every time I did move it. I mean, it really hurt. And so I, because I shouted through vertebrae, I had sprained my right ankle and my left arm was wrenched. It was hard to move. So I'm punching this thing, but it won't go away. It's just determined to circle beneath me faster

and faster and faster, and faster. And I realize, I guess I'll punch in this thing because it's keeping me afloat. No longer am I waiting in the water, treading in it. I'm lying at the top of my back, being kept buoyant by this creature hitting four points on my body. My back of my knees and my shoulders in a circular motion. And I'm thinking this is the nicest shark I've ever met. And I was on a television program sometime later, running a suicide prevention campaign and the

show and viral, online, and one man's letters stuck out from around the world. People wrote from Italy, China, Ireland, Japan, this one guy writes in from Las Vegas, Nevada. His name was Morgan, and he was on the bridge that day with his mom. And he writes to me through ABC News, and he says, Kevin, I'm so very glad you're alive. I was standing less than two feet away from you when you jumped until this day watching this show. No one would tell me what the youth lived or died. It's haunted me until right now. By the way, Kevin, there

was no shark like you mentioned you thought there was on the show, but there absolutely was a sea lion. And the people above looking down, believed it to be keeping your body afloat until the Coast Guard boat arrived behind you. Totally incredible. Come on. Absolutely incredible. Come on. Come on.

Man. Well, that means you're supposed to be here. It's supposed to be here. Can we go back through a few things that I want to understand and we'll pick the story back up. You said something that I've always wondered, which I think everyone listening to this wonders because you get to come back and tell us what has to be going on in someone's mind when they decide to end their life. And also it's traditionally been called the most selfish thing you can do. As you know, this is like

become part of the vernacular of our culture. How could they be so selfish? And I've wondered that having not been in that state. Now I have had someone on the show I told you, Kaila Stocklein, whose husband died by suicide. She actually said to me before the show, she says, please don't use the word committed. Yeah. Suicide. Say, die by suicide because committed and notates that somehow he was in control over, to sit the moment and decided to selfishly do something. So why is it not a selfish act?

I want you to go back to that in a minute. And then what does it feel like? I want to understand the level. Is there a break? Do you think that Kevin that happens where there's like a mental break where you just, do you snap or is it just a threshold of pain that you just want to end as you describe that earlier or could it be both? So at 17 I snapped. Complete mental breakdown on stage for 1200 people. The theater was packed in the theater show.

I was a lead in. Okay. I had to run off stage and be taken straight to psychiatric care. Okay. Okay. Um, that's far before this. That was two years prior. Two years prior to my attempt. But that would, that would lead me on this roller coaster skyrocketing in pneumonia, crashing into depression every week for the next two years. Okay. Family was beside themselves. But it's not selfish to die by suicide or attempt because it is just like any other disease, a symptom of the disease. So if we had liver disease, we have symptoms that lead us to go back to treatment to solve that symptom so that we can treat that disease.

The problem with suicide and brain health. Look, we all call it mental health, right? Everyone does, we've done it for years, it's the normal, it's the norm. Let me ask you a question, who amongst us wants to be labeled mental? I don't think anybody will raise their hands, or say yes.

There's a negative connotation to the terminal by itself. You're right. Let's call it what it is. It's brain pain. Your brain is tangible. If they could open your skull for surgery, they can touch it. And they do and they will and they'll solve your problem. But this is a brain health issue.

And we're looking at it wrong in the public eye by calling it mental all the time. To break through for me. Do you say that? Yeah, we're looking at it wrong because if we continue to perpetuate this mental illness, mental health, mental struggles, we're missing the point that it's a brain health problem and that you need to exercise your brain and work out your brain to solve that crisis.

Everybody wants that uberification of the medication right now. They want that one pill that's gonna solve their mental health crisis. Doesn't work like that. You have to put in all of the work, all of the effort, find all of the tools to benefit your brain health to live on an even keel when you have a brain health diagnosis. I have been diagnosed, as we talked about with bipolar type

when I was psychotic features. That's a triple diagnosis. Three different doctors said I have the diagnosed as we talked about with bipolar type women's psychotic features. That's a triple diagnosis. Three different doctors said I have the same thing. So I'm pretty sure I'm going to accept that. Okay. Now that's that being said, I will not accept that I'm mentally ill. I have a brain disease that causes me to live in this state of these states of brain pain. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. I have every symptom I've ever had today, right now. But I know how to manage them. I know how to cope with them. And most importantly, as someone who lives with chronic thoughts of suicide,

they plague me. I know how to survive them. Right now, you still have chronic thoughts of suicide. Yes, on a regular basis, but they'll never take me. I'll never die that way. Never. I love you. Stay on this for a minute.

One breakthrough for me and everybody listens. It's brain health. Number one. Number two, walk us through what it, is it the level of pain where you're just going, I have to end this pain I'm feeling. Is that, I think everyone? Look, this is the ultimate life decision, right? It's the ultimate life decision and people have wrestled with this all of their life. Since I knew what suicide was, I've always wondered,

what is it must be like in that moment, even the moment to run to jump, like to consciously go, I'm going to move my legs now and I'm going to jump off this bridge to my death. What is, what is the amount of pain or their conscious thoughts? Are you on autopilot? Are you sort of, are you take it, are you out of your body to some extent? Are you watching yourself do it? Are you, what does it feel like physically and mentally emotionally in the moment? What is someone experiencing? So you said something earlier, it's very important. You said decided, what made you decide? I didn't decide.

I was compelled to dive on my hands. Imagine your earbuds are on, or your headphones are on, like these headphones here. Your headphones are on. And you don't hear that wonderful playlist of music you love so much, or that audible podcast, or that book you're listening to. Instead you hear a person or a people's voices in your head yelling at you at the top of

their lungs that you have to take your life and you don't have another choice. It is inescapable. It is the only option. It's inevitable. And then you're on that bridge, believing beyond a shadow of a doubt, you have no other course of action to take, but to die by your hands from lethal emotional pain. You don't want to die. You believe you have to to categorically different.

I heard you say that you said, I never wanted to take my life that day. I believe I had to. Yeah, I believe I had to. And and that's state of being. Yes, you said it as well. The pain grows into this level of pain that you can no longer a control and be you can no longer stand it. It's so overwhelming. It's so overpowering that it becomes this insidious thought in your brain on a loop. They've actually done studies now where they've determined that people with chronic thoughts

of suicide have a loop of suicide ideation in their brain, in a particular part of their brain, I'm blanking on the part of the brain that it goes through. But it's a thought processes that becomes what's called a perseveration. So you end up saying it over and over and over and over again until it becomes something you have to do. You don't want to do it. You have to do it. Very good distinction for me to understand and for the audience

to understand. Is there any distinction between you being bipolar and your path to being compelled to do it and say someone who's not bipolar, do you believe? Because you're in this world now, right? You're in the brain health world. You're with people very regularly who are contemplating suicide, who are of attempted at themselves. So I think to a situation that I'm aware of that I won't get into the name of the person, but that I know that was a college student. She's a female. Overall, seem to have at most of her life normal brain health, there was a bullying situation that took place and not that long after that she took her life.

Do you believe that the process that led her there, although her brain health condition was different than yours, that this repetitive thought still started to happen to the point where she just wanted to escape the pain and also felt compelled, or there are different pathways to this decision that someone might find themselves on. So the pathways are different. For example, there are people who are in Fortune 500 businesses doing really well, doing great, and they lose all their money in the stock market, then they take their lives because they can't define themselves by anything else than someone who's very successful. Their mind becomes an insidious, it's the same thought process, it's the same loop that plays.

It's just coming from a different it's the same loop that plays, it's just coming from a different place, or the people that have to go into prison for 30 years for a crime they committed, and they don't wanna live in that life, and they take their life before they are admitted into the prison, or the people like you just said,

the athlete who's doing well seems seemingly doing fine with her brain health, and then ends up dying by suicide after bullying situation. The bullying situation though is very important to understand because you are dealing with outside forces, people outside of you, telling you your worthless, telling you you're less than telling you you have no value and they're doing it on a regular basis especially in grade and high schools. And this is important because when I was in grade school, I'm part black. When I was in grade school, the eighth graders,

when I was a fourth grader would take me, pick me up, turn me upside down, place me in a garbage can, face first, and tell me that's what I was because I was part black. Or they'd hold me down and call me a little red and word every day. Or they'd push me to the ground and I'd crack my head up on the concrete, just because I didn't look like them. And so what that did to me was I backbrained that.

And I internalized it. And I believe, and certainly with the studying I've done about conquering the inner critical voice, every one of us has an inner critical voice. Comes from every hateful, spiteful, hurtful, mean, negative thing that's ever been done to us or said to us. We backbray it. Some of us internalize it. It becomes our negative in our critical voice. So these kids

all around the world, these young people around the world that are dying by suicide, one in three, 18 to 25 year olds today has a mental health condition or diagnosis, one in three, right, but that's not the important number three in three of us have to take care of our brain health. But when you are being abused mentally, verbally, by other people, and that is just inescapable, everywhere you go, you hear these things, you go online, it's all over social media,

and you think that's your world, you think that's the only world, especially when you're young, and your brain hasn't fully developed. And so what happens is you internalize and then you recite and you repeat negative things about yourself. And that's what you believe. I've heard you say this as well. When you recite positive things about yourself, when you repeat positive things about yourself, you can retrain the brain to believe positive things about yourself. Do you believe that anybody who has died by suicide did not want to take their life but believe they had to? In other words, is that a universal application?

It's a great question, but I would say this. I've heard a lot of people come to me and say, I wanted to die. I've heard a lot more people, a lot more people say, I believed I had to die. The people who say they want to die, the first thing people say I believed I had to die. The people who say they want to die. The first thing they did was believe they had to die. Yeah. They get to the I want because they're in so much pain. Got it. I get it. Now, by the way, I want to acknowledge you. It's just the absolute unbelievable courage it takes to talk about this the way you you and the fact that and believe for me. It's God God's giving you this story this this

Seed lion keeping you afloat is just it's just unbelievable that that happens But then that you've just got this incredible ability to have the passion and your your unique ability to communicate the message Clearly you were chosen for this. It's obvious to me, brother. I want to acknowledge that for you. I want to go back to the conversation with your dad because it makes me think that we need to, we can't just always listen to someone that we're worried about. So I've had people in my life that I've, you know, I've been worried about. Are they going to harm themselves or take their life? And by the way, self-harm can be a pathway there as well, right?

They can begin with self-harm and it graduates over time to where they finally do the ultimate harm to themselves. But I've had some of them do a really good job of convincing me that, no, no way, no chance. Are you crazy? I would never do that. And you're telling all of us to maybe watch their behavior more than listen to their words. What would you tell us if we have someone in our life, a friend? By the way, every one of you listening to this has either already had this happen or at some point in your life are going to be called upon at some point to help somebody who's in

brain pain this way. So listen close, this applies to you. Any of you driving right now working, I go, ah, this isn't my life, that didn't happen. Bologna, it's gonna happen. So what would your advice be? We can't, it sounds to me like we can't just listen to what they're telling us, because in your case, you persuaded your own father

who was clearly very worried about you, constantly told you to be careful. You convinced him that day. So what would your advice be for those of us keeping an eye on so to speak somebody in our life that we're concerned about or should be concerned about? So the first thing I'll say is check on your strong friends. The people that seem totally fine, the people that seem to be at all put together and they're doing well and and have the conversation at the breakfast lunch and dinner table about suicide prevention. None of us is immune to a suicide attempt.

None of us is immune to dying by suicide. That being said, I think it's good. You're right. None of us. Not enough. More for to 10-year-old children are dying by suicide than ever before in the history of this world. How does a four year old know how to take their life?

And I'll tell you how. Ed, it's media. Media can do great things like your show. Does great things. But media in the wrong hands, given the wrong message, giving a dangerous message can also do terrible things. That said, when I was with my father that morning and convincing him that I would be fine, right? I had the voice in my head that was my internal conscious saying, please tell him, please tell him the truth. This is the one man

who loves you the most in the entire world. Tell them everything right now. But then the insidious voice, you'll just quiet. Shut up. You have to die. And I would say to parents all over the world who love their kids deeply and want them to succeed in life, want them to be happy and hopeful. You've got to have the conversation about suicide. And here I'm going to give you real tips, real tricks you can do.

Okay, let's do it. All right. So you don't want to just walk up to your child and say, are you suicidal? That's, don't do that. That's scary. Uh, what you want to do because here's the fear. Can I say something? Yeah, go for it.

The fear is that you're implanting the concept or idea in them, right? That thought our concept is not planted unless it's already there. If you go and ask a child, you love that if they're suicidal, that doesn't put the thought in their mind. If it's not already there, that's a myth. Um, what it does, it gives them permission to speak on their pain and a pain shared as a pain. Have, but here are the three techniques that are scientifically proven to get

to the right answer when someone is suicidal. You walk up to the person you care or love or a colleague or whatever and you're peers and you say, Hey, you know, I was thinking about you the other day. I'm a little worried about you and I don't want to offend you, but I want to ask you three questions. And I want you to be really honest with your answers. But before I ask you those three questions, I want you to know I'm with your answers. But before I ask you those three questions, I want you to know I'm not gonna judge your answers.

I'm not here to tell you if they're right or wrong. I'm here to be here for you because I care about you. You're human and so am I. Here are my three questions. Are you thinking of killing yourself? Have you made plans to take your life? And do you have the means? Do you have the means? Do you have the means? My father didn't know those questions.

I wouldn't know them. And that's not his fault. And I want to say this to everyone listening and watching this podcast right now, this show, if you've lost someone you loved to suicide, which a lot of you have guaranteed. Hear me when I say this. It was not your fault. That blame that we share with our family and friends who lose that one person to people's suicide, it doesn't belong to us. They didn't die because of us or in spite of us. They died because of a lethal emotional pain that had nothing to do with us. Moving forward, we can't move on from a suicide.

That's impossible. We can look to the living, those who still remain in front of us alive and well, and find ways to move forward to the pain. Well said, brother. You, uh, you're blowing my mind, um, just the depth of your understanding of all of this because you've lived it is so unique to speak to somebody who actually jumped. You actually jumped. You didn't actually get close. You actually jumped.

And then this miracle happens. Let's go back in the water now. Now you're in the water and I assume at some point you're in the water. What about 40 minutes before you're actually rescued? Is that accurate? How long? You know, I don't, I, the time was an, and it escapes me. I don't know how long I was in the water. I know. Do you remember being rescued? I remember being rescued. I know that I know that I was in the water long enough for the C line to keep me afloat and then the C line only took off from underneath me when the coast card boat arrived behind me. Incredible. Just incredible. Yeah. And the oh by the way the only reason the coast guard boat arrived in that timely manner before I would set into hyperthermia and Shirley die was because a woman on the bridge as she was driving by me when I left over the rail saw me go over and called her friend the United States Coast Guard

from her car phone in the year 2000 who happened to be manning the waters of the bridge at that moment the only reason the Coast Guard brought arrived to my position before I would set hypothermia was because of that woman's phone call. You're supposed to be supposed to be. You're supposed to be there. You're supposed to be there. Oh my god. And that doesn't even cover it. When I went to the hospital, first of all,

when I was in the ambulance, going to the hospital, I was having a violent asthma attack, they could not give me my breather because they didn't know if my lungs had been impacted, which they had. So they could only give me oxygen. So they didn't know if I'd make it to the hospital, be able to breathe through it.

So we get to the hospital, one of the foremost back surgeons on the West Coast, who wasn't supposed to be there at that hour decides to stay to do my surgery. The first and only of its particular kind, he saved my ability to stand, walk and run with the surgery. He's never done since then. Oh my gosh, brother. What in the sea? You know what? And then you find yourself in this seat

today and we're gonna reach millions of people with this. People are listening to this all over the world. There are lives being saved because of you right now. I just want you to understand that. I want you to understand that you're remarkable and thank God you're here and everyone listening to this if you feel like I feel if you've ever had any of these thoughts. Thank God you're here. Thank God you're here and everyone listening to this, if you feel like I feel, if you've ever had any of these thoughts, thank God you're here. Thank God you won't do this after today. Don't even, if you need help with this,

ask somebody for help. He's right, people do care. They do want to support you. They do want to help you. You're hearing the difference that he's making today on this show. You're going to make a difference in some area of your life, but you can't do that if you're not here.

You cannot do that if you're not here. You have to be here. And this, by the way, was not the end of your journey. You now end up, I think you've told me, you after this attempt, you still ended up having multiple visits to psychiatric wards trying to get this brain pain handled. And so I think the people would, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you what some of your solutions were.

You know, there would be people who should be on medication, is he on medication? Is it exercise, is it diet, is it the combination of above? Is it therapy, is it, you know, shock treatment? What are the things you've done to get your brain pain managed? Because it's clearly not gone. You've said you still have suicidal thoughts regularly. What's your recipe? What's your formula? So I do have a formula and I wrote it in my third of 10 psych ward stays.

So I've been in 10 psych ward stays in the last 22 years up to 2019 pre-pidemic, which is my last day. So I've been out of the psych ward since 2019, which I'm very thankful for. But I'll tell you this, before I say what my steps are, I'll tell you this, the three F's save my life every day. Faith, family, and friends. I have a firm faith in God. I always have raised Catholic, still Catholic today. I love God. I love that He had kept me alive so I can be the person I am today, right? That's Celan was an agent of God that saved my life. 100%. Today, I utilize steps and I do this every day. And when I fall off this regimen,

when I fall off this routine, that's when I end up back in the psych ward. But when I follow this regimen to a T, I stay on an even keel to the best of my ability. I still struggle, I still go through it, but I stay out of the psych ward as the best way to put it. Therapy. Therapy, meaning what kind of therapy works for you.

I personally utilize art therapy, music therapy, blue Avaly Box therapy, and talk therapy. Those are my go-to's. Right. And breath work therapy, okay?, blue-avelife box therapy, and talk therapy. Those are my go-tos. And breath work therapy. Okay. I do all that. So therapy. And then you've got sleep, one of the most important things in the world.

So yes, I travel all around the world just like you. And I'm constantly on the road. But I get my sleep because I maintain, and I make sure I'm adequately sleeping to benefit my brain health, because sleep helps factor in your good brain functionality at this cellular level. And I would say this when I wasn't sleeping, when I haven't slept, because I've lived with insomnia on several occasions of my life, I was diagnosed with five simultaneous sleep disorders three years ago. It was terrible. I wasn't sleeping at all for months at a time.

I was hallucinating 24 hours a day. It was vicious. So therapy and sleep. Education. Education about my diagnosis. I get a Google alert on bipolar disorder on a regular basis. Everything that comes in that's a brand new great form of treatment that is proven to work. I put it into my plan. I work it in and I get it done. I'm doing the work. So therapy, sleep, education, exercise, I exercise, just like you. I wait train every day, I work every day, I try to get that in because it feeds my brain. I don't feed my body, exercise in healthy food because of, I want to look great. I do it because I want to feel good mentally, brain wise, brain health wise. And then, uh, so then eating healthy is the next one.

So the three years, education, exercise, eating healthy. People get caught up with like, what is healthy? And what is not healthy? Here's the bottom line. There are two types of foods if you really break it down. Inflammatory foods, anti-inflammatory foods. If you just try to eat mostly anti-inflammatory foods, you'll be doing your brain a heck of a lot of good.

Okay, and then we've got medication and meditation. I take medication every day at the same time of every day because it helps me. It doesn't help everyone. I found medication that benefits my situation because I was like, oh, this is as I told you earlier, meditation is very important for me. I wake up.

The first thing I do is not check my phone with that blue wave light. What I do is the first thing when I wake up is I meditate for 20 minutes. I inhale through my nose, I exhale through my mouth, 4, 4, 8. Inhale, 4, hold 4, release 8 seconds. In that time, I'm giving myself a particular personal mantra and I'm stabilizing my brain health before I do anything else. I do that in the evening before I eat dinner as well. So that's therapy

sleep, education exercise, eating health, lead meditation, medication. The next is coping strategies and coping mechanisms. Look, we all have to deal with pain. Pain is universal. It's inevitable. Suffering is optional. It's a choice. If we choose to thrive, we will. If we decide that I can fight my pain, battle my pain, live with my pain and thrive despite of my pain, you will be a success. Maybe not monetarily. Life skill success is way more important. Go for it. Get it. It's yours. You deserve it. If you work toward that end, we don't deserve anything we didn't work for. We don't.

We don't. People get that confused. We live in an entitled nation. We need to put the work in to stabilize our brain health so that we can give back to the people around us and giving is the true receiving and giving is the greatest part of this life. I think that, well, first of all, people who give to a cause or

volunteer for a cause, rather, are 63% more brain healthy than those that do not. The more you give back to others, the better you will feel. And people forget that. It's very important. And then advocacy, advocating for yourself with your doctors, bringing in a list to your doctor of all the questions you want to ask, so you don't forget them because doctors can be intimidating. You know, they know everything. You don't know anything. You know, you go in, you get that list and you know how to take care of yourself. And then public policy or legislative advocacy on the brain health side, if you're interested,

you go to Hill Day with the National Council for Behavioral Health. They are doing some great work. Hill Day is where you can go on the capital and fight for every mental health legislation you can think of and brain health legislation and you can give back to your community that way. And finally, at the end of my plan is a brain health emergency plan. We all have brain health issues. We all have to take care of them. So when you are struggling and you find yourself in a moment of levity, a space where you're doing well, write down all of your doctors, clinicians,

and personal peer protectors information, opt people into your plan. Get them to surround you, people that love you, people that care for you, your peers, your colleagues, whoever, get them involved surround you people that love you people that care for you. You appears your colleagues Whoever get them involved in your in your plan and say look when I'm not well Here's your protocol. Here's what you can do to help keep me safe from myself very good brother. So good. I was I'm watching you just going. Okay. Clearly this is this is where you're supposed to be in your life. I

you just go, okay, clearly this is where you're supposed to be in your life. I want to share with everybody you said earlier that most people have had some thoughts of suicide or self-harm and it's interesting to me so I thought, well have I and I actually have, I actually have, now I haven't repeated them though. But there have been times in my life. I remember when I was a young boy my grandfather died My my mom's dad I remember going through this dark period wondering like well, why's life matter? It's just gonna end anyway What's the point? Just gonna end so what if it ended now or it ended then? I remember that I remember Not maybe five or eight years ago really difficult thing was happening in my life

And I remember for a flash second. I went yeah I'd just be better if I weren't here. It was just a moment of pain And then I remember when my dad died just a couple years ago. I remember going this Matter now these are flashes but if someone like me and what I do for a living and what I do in my space can even have flashes of these thoughts Someone whose life may not be on the right trajectory or they're going through real pain, which I don't have that kind of real pain, or really being bullied or really lost a job or really lost a relationship or something's happened in their life, we have to look out for one another. We have to know we were I was getting ready to give a I had an event a few weeks ago and

by the speakers all at a dinner and one of the speakers said, I just don't know what I want to say tomorrow. And I said, you know what, just remember this, most of the people that are coming to this event are in some type of pain. And I remember even just saying it out loud and the whole room got quiet.

All the other speakers, some of the top speakers are like, you know, you're right. They are. Now, if I know that one, I go speak to a room, that means humans. And these are people going to an event that are motivated. That's these are motivated people. So if I believe people going to a motivational event are in some form of pain, the majority of them

imagine the people that aren't going to these events that are out. People are in pain, and as humans we need to be checking on them and loving them, and rooting out other things that are painful in their life and calling out people that are causing people pain stepping in and being in the gap for people. So I just want to acknowledge everything you've been saying today. And I want to ask you to speak to someone who might be thinking about it right now. If you have a friend who you think might be thinking about it, you're going to send them this podcast right now. And if you're thinking about it, you're going to send them this podcast right now. And if you're thinking about it, you're going to listen to it.

But I want anybody if you're listening to this or watching this, that you think could even possibly be thinking about this, you send them this episode right now. You do that. And if you're thinking about it, you listen really closely because this is someone who jumped off the golden gate bridge. He did it. He didn't think about doing it. He didn't get close. He did it. So what would you say to somebody who's sitting there right now going, you know, man, I'm just not sure. I'm in that pain too.

And that pattern starting and it's growing. And I think it has to start with one thought before it goes to three thoughts, before it goes to five thoughts, right? Now I've shared with everyone I've had the thought, but I haven't had the third, fourth, fifth, sixth. So you're telling me it's hundreds and thousands of these thoughts on a loop, but it has to start

with one. Yeah. Right? It has to start with two. Then it's got four. Then you got eight. What would you say to someone who's in that pattern now, or maybe they're starting to stack this thought, or they're stacking this pain?

Okay. Listen very carefully. If you're going through these thoughts, or you're having regular thoughts of suicide, stop. Take a breath, in four, hold four, out six, eight seconds to first lips, like a whistle but no sound. Do that breath 30 more times. It's going to affect the nasal nerve in your brain. It's going to bring you to an absolute calm.

We are all going to die. None of us is promised tomorrow. But just because you're in a world of pain today, doesn't mean that's going to be the rest of your life. Just because you're in a world of pain today doesn't mean you don't get to have that beautiful tomorrow, but you have to be here to get there in the first place. Breathe. When you're done doing those 30 breaths, stand up. Call or go to the nearest person that cares for you and say, for simple but very effective words. I need help now. And maybe my friends, you don't have a great support network.

So maybe it's not the first, second, third, maybe even fourth person you're talking to that's going to get your back. But by the sheer probability of the number of people you turn to and the kind of people you turn to, someone will be willing to empathize with your pain. And if you can't find anybody to empathize with your pain, take yourself to an emergency room, and tell them your truth. Because you, at the very least, deserve this life into your natural end, never to die by your hands. Suicide is not the answer. It is the problem. Suicidal ideations are the greatest liars we know. You don't have to listen to them.

Do not allow your thoughts to become your actions. Let them simply be your thoughts. Every time I'm suicidal today, I turn to anyone and say, I need help now, and I repeat to myself, my thoughts don't have to become my actions. And then I repeat to myself, I am meant to be here until my natural end. And then I say positive things to myself that retrain my brain's functionality and get me to safety from myself. You're incredible, brother. You are that sea lion for millions of people.

I was just thinking about it. You're actually the sea lion now. You're holding people up until someone can get there. You're literally doing that, bro. I have this feeling, see this time here. I wanted you here this time of year because I have read some data that suggests that, by the way, everyone lets you this, you're not alone. It might not be the first person, the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth, but you're

not alone. And I think more and more around the holidays, sometimes, by the way, people take their lives every day of every single week. It doesn't matter. But there is data that shows that this time of year around Thanksgiving and Christmas, and it's darker and grayer out in many different places that people feel alone and that's why I wanted the show to come out this time of year also just in addition to it. But I

also for you they can find you like people actually message you regularly right. So where would they actually find you to send you a message if they wanted to reach out and just have you come speak or talk to you or they've got a problem or anything like that. Incredibly, you're open to that And you're also a tremendous speaker. So where do they actually find you? So it's really simple if you want to reach me. I'm accessible at Kevin Heinz story across all socials But particularly Instagram and TikTok. I'm reachable there and I answer all my DMs and my private messages It takes me some time as with anybody in this situation, but I'm glad to get back to you.

I will get back to you. And if you are in crisis, I will do my best to get you directed to safety. I'm not a clinician. I'm not a counselor or a crisis technician, but I am a person who cares about you. And here's the reason I care about you, because you're human and so am I, and that's all I need. So if you're struggling and you wanna reach out, or you wanna just tell me your story

and how you found success in your life about what you've been going through and you're trying to over-reversely start, I wanna hear it, I wanna read it, I wanna know about it. Reach out, I will reach back, cause I care about you at Kevin Heine's story across all socials. Is any of this genetic?

So yeah, so this is really important both my biological parents have been diagnosed with the exact same disease when they called it Manant depression in their day Genetically predisposed twice is what they would call it. So yes, it is genetic Doesn't have to be but it can be it can be it can be situational brought on by traumatic situation or it can be a part of both So I don't know if you know this, but I was born in severe poverty. I was born in squalor, and it lives in the crack motels,

and being in my life, in infancy. And I was fed what my mom and dad could steal, Kool-Aid Coca-Cola and sour milk was my first diet. So when that happened, as we talked about briefly, they got to brain health connection, you got my carbion, how's this houses all your brain and bodies serotonin. My birth parents, unbeknownst to them and their lack of knowledge, were basically damaging my brain's functionality at the cellular level when I was in infant.

So this affected the rest of my life. I think your life is remarkable. It is easily one of the great stories I've ever heard in my life. And what's the best part about it is it's redemptive because you're actually taking that story to change lives and save lives. And I've done a lot of shows. I'm very proud of the show. Like I said, there's only one seat a week. There's only 52 seeds a year I give up to that seed. And I have a feeling that today's exceeds the importance of almost anything we've done here before.

If we just save one life, and I know we're going to save more than that today, I know that you are. So I just want to tell you, I think you're remarkable. And I'm really grateful that I found you. And then I got to share your absolutely incredible story with my extended family with this audience. So thank you for being here today, brother. Thank you for having me. I had this meant the world to me. I really appreciate it. You crushed it. Okay, everybody, make sure that you follow Kevin. Make sure you share this show with anyone you think is in any brain health

pain. Okay, any brain pain, anybody that you think could possibly, and by the way, maybe they're not, but you think they could help somebody. And for you that are listening to this today, this might be one of these you listen to a few times. And I wanted to give you the gift of Kevin and his unbelievable story and his information today so that it could save or change your life. At the same time, I would just ask you to please share this with anyone that it could help. It matters to me. It says why I do the show. And I love you all. And I'm here for you. You are not alone. And I just want to say God bless you to all of you and your families. Continue to max out your life. This is the Atomile Show.

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